Copper pans for preserving
James Purchase
unlined copper "preserving pan" or a "sugar pot" for making jam and
preserves. I know that you can use an unlined copper pot to boil sugar (i.e.
make caramel or fudge) but I have always read that unlined copper could not
be used with acidic foods because of the possible reaction between the acid
and the copper. Some jams call for the addition of lemon juice (an acid).
Can you make jams in the unlined copper preserving pans that are made by
Mauviel and/or Bourgeat?
Thanks,
James Purchase
Toronto
Michael
grandmother used one for ...well a long time. We like'em but others on this
group will foretell great disaster by their use.
mjb
"James Purchase" <jppur...@Home.com> wrote in message
news:VMB57.11625$2V.22...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com...
Peggy Haine
In article <VMB57.11625$2V.22...@news3.rdc1.on.home.com>, "James
Purchase" <jppur...@Home.com> wrote:
James-
I've been using mine for quite a few years to make all kinds of jams,
jellies, and preserves. Haven't killed anyone yet. On the other hand,
the old man is beginning to slur his words. . .
Peg (in the beautiful Finger Lakes region of New York State -- wine country!)
James Purchase
Thanks, I checked the FAQ and it seems to say not to use them but I remember
that my mother used to swear by hers (of course, she also cooked tomato
sauce in an old aluminium pot).
Do either of you have any recommendations regarding the weight (thickness) I
should look for? I have seen some that are 1 mm thick and others which are 2
mm thick. The thinner ones I would imagine would probably have a greater
tendancy to burn, not to mention dent in handling - all of my other copper
is the Mauviel professional weight stuff, 2.5 mm thick, lined with s/s. Does
anyone make a preserving pan in 2.5 mm thickness?
Thanks
James Purchase
Toronto
Michael
have no idea how thick mine is or who manufactured it but it appears to be
Mauviel (the handles and rivets match my tin lined Mauviels I purchased at
Zabar's).
mjb
"James Purchase" <> wrote in message >
zxcvbob
>
> Peggy & Michael,
>
> Thanks, I checked the FAQ and it seems to say not to use them but I remember
> that my mother used to swear by hers (of course, she also cooked tomato
> sauce in an old aluminium pot).
>
Hi James,
You should *never* use copper cookware. In fact, you should send your
copperware to *me* so I can use... I mean dispose of it properly ;-)
Best regards,
Bob
Eric
The only area where unlined copper is used is traditional candy making. Safety
is questionable even then as citric acid is often added to candy recipes.
Fortunately the bulk of candy is made in stainless clad copper today. In this
way one gains the best properties of both metals.
>>I'm hoping to get some advice regarding the safety/wisdom of using an
>>unlined copper "preserving pan" or a "sugar pot" for making jam and
>>preserves.
Not to be used at all. Unlined copper pots should be supplied with MSDS sheets.
Copper salts in the human body are in very low levels before toxicity sets in.
0.6% is the limit. One is far, far better to get a pot with copper bottom clad
with stainless steel inside and out. One gets a vastly superior pot this way as
the thick bottom ( often up to 1/2 inch ) is simply awesome in its performance
for cooking of jams, jellies or anything which is hot packed.
>>know that you can use an unlined copper pot to boil sugar (i.e.
>>make caramel or fudge) but I have always read that unlined copper could not
>>be used with acidic foods because of the possible reaction between the acid
>>and the copper. Some jams call for the addition of lemon juice (an acid).
>>Can you make jams in the unlined copper preserving pans that are made by
>>Mauviel and/or Bourgeat?
It does not matter who makes a copper pot. Ingestion of copper salts is no
laughing matter. It will surprise you how easily copper is attacked. Make some
oatmeal in a lined copper pot..... once cooked, smear some over the outside ...
it is staggering that _bland_ cooked oatmeal will turn copper shiny bright
nearly instantly - the cupric oxide coating was attacked leaving behind a new
skin of copper atoms to oxidize.
Talk to any health practitioner .....
Life is too sweet to toss it away on a copper pot. It is good that you read the
FAQ. The RFP FAQ has a lot of fact behind it. Practically all in the FAQ has
been checked against scientific sources and publications. No doubt errors still
exist and will be dumped as soon as they are spotted. The RFP FAQ is a mature
document today and additions are few. There are some additions / revisions
coming soon but since none are critical it will get here when it gets
here :-))))
Eric
also in Toronto :-)
Ross Reid
>The only area where unlined copper is used is traditional candy making.
(Big snip).
Eric!
Have you forgotten BEER and its cousin MALT WHISKY, lad?
Huge, unlined copper brew kettles are still the pride and joy of many a
brewery and distillery. In fact these brew kettles are often referred to
as "coppers".
Ross.
Eric
>>Have you forgotten BEER and its cousin MALT WHISKY, lad?
>>Huge, unlined copper brew kettles are still the pride and joy of many a
>>brewery and distillery. In fact these brew kettles are often referred to
>>as "coppers".
Copper has its role in industry to be sure - areas where acidity is not in
direct contact with copper. The beer kettles you refer to are lined with tin -
Labatt included. I think the City of London outlawed copper for beer making in
the early 1800's. It is possible some folks haven't heard yet :-))
No matter copper is not good for the human body.
Ross Reid
>>Have you forgotten BEER and its cousin MALT WHISKY, lad?
>>Huge, unlined copper brew kettles are still the pride and joy of many a
>>brewery and distillery. In fact these brew kettles are often referred to
>>as "coppers".
Eric <er...@nospam.getcomputing.com> replied:
>Copper has its role in industry to be sure - areas where acidity is not in
>direct contact with copper. The beer kettles you refer to are lined with tin -
>Labatt included.
Eric,
Having had a lifelong interest in all things malt related and, just to
keep the record straight, I am forced to disagree.
Copper has been used in brewing for centuries, all over the beer-drinking
world and, I can say with certainty that copper brew kettles, unlike
copper saucepans and frying pans, have never been tinned. On the
contrary, in many instances where an old copper brewhouse has been
replaced with stainless steel, it has been found necessary to hang pieces
of copper in the boil to get the desired result.
>No matter copper is not good for the human body.
Without qualifiers, this statement is misleading.
Human and animal health (and this includes yeast), depends on an adequate
dietary intake of many trace metals, copper included. Copper combines
with proteins to form enzymes critical for life. Copper is also required
to transport iron from absorption sites to the bone marrow where red
blood cells are produced. In this respect, copper is no different than
many other substances, where a high concentration is toxic but the
correct amount is essential.
Cheers,
Ross.
Eric
>>>>On Thu, 19 Jul 2001 22:35:13 -0400, Ross Reid <mrr...@golden.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>Have you forgotten BEER and its cousin MALT WHISKY, lad?
>>>>Huge, unlined copper brew kettles are still the pride and joy of many a
>>>>brewery and distillery. In fact these brew kettles are often referred to
>>>>as "coppers".
>>
Ross and all,
Sorry to be so tardy in getting this follow-up but work has been hectic.
Hopefully a very recent promotion will mean less hours ...
>>Human and animal health (and this includes yeast), depends on an adequate
Adequate is the key word. According to Harold McGee in "On Food and Cooking"
I will quote a brief portion verbatim.
"Copper. About 1/10 gram of this element is incorporated into the body, with the
highest concentrations in the liver and the brain. [ snip ] Dietary deficiency
of copper is rare, and excessive intake can cause damage to the liver, kidney,
and brain. For this reason, and because copper readily reacts with many foods,
the use of unlined copper utensils is not recommended."
There is additional commentary and history of copper in McGee's book. McGee
gives the history of City of London's edict banning copper in the beer
industry.
Copper use in this household will continue to be conservative ... house water
here is basic with a pH of 8.2. Were the pH to shift to 6.4 ......
Searching on the Internet for "copper poisoning" will reveal that several
countries are concerned that farm animals are ingesting too much copper.
396 parts per million was cited recently as primary cause of a cow's death.
Copper napthenate in the guise of green wood preservative is quite toxic to the
insect world. Only last year $60 million of copper napthenate ( the too familiar
green lumber ) preserved wood playground gear was removed from playgrounds in
Toronto. The morbidity rate of insects vis a vis copper wood preservative is
an indicator that we too will die from it - - with long term exposure. At the
very least it is reasonable to expect health problems which are hard to
impossible to pin down.
One can get all the dietary copper one needs from food.
j-la...@neiu.edu
So, are you saying I should give up using my heavy copper mixing bowl
that works marvelously for whipping up an occasional omelet, or
whipped cream, as much as maybe two times per month?
Michael Sierchio
> So, are you saying I should give up using my heavy copper mixing bowl
> that works marvelously for whipping up an occasional omelet, or
> whipped cream, as much as maybe two times per month?
No, but for chrissakes learn to trim your follow-ups!
j-la...@neiu.edu
>j-la...@neiu.edu wrote:
I wasn't aware you owned this news group. And I don't know anyone
named Chris, and why his or her sake should matter.
Michael Sierchio
> >No, but for chrissakes learn to trim your follow-ups!
>
> I wasn't aware you owned this news group. And I don't know anyone
> named Chris, and why his or her sake should matter.
rube.
j-la...@neiu.edu
>j-la...@neiu.edu wrote:
>rube.
Nope. Don't know anyone named rube, either. Is that you?