Posting while Cantering????
Allison Longaker
noticed something very very strange. I have been riding for many years
and I ride hunt seat. During the warm-up for the polo match I noticed
several players were doing what looked like a post while they were
cantering. I thought at first maybe they were stretching their legs
and it just looked that way. But then I saw a guy helping a player,
who while warming up a pony was posting.
Have I missed a new trend? Was I just a little over-heated?
Ally
Terry von Gease
Your vision is 20-20. Posting a gallop|canter|lope is done for the
same reason you post a trot. It can me more comfortable and in
polo, you hop on a lot of different horses in a match. Since each
horse is different, posting the gallop acts as the great equalizer.
Give it a try. It's quite easy to do, if it were hard then most
polo players couldn't do it. It's a comfortable way to go fast
on a rough horse.
--
Terry
t...@hpwtwe0.cup.hp.com Time is nature's way of keeping everything
from happening at once.
Truman Prevatt
What do you mean by "posting the canter"? If you are referring to the
rising in the saddle in time with the normal flow of the horses stride,
then I don't know if I would call it a post. This type of movement with
the horse is fairly normal in many horse sports, CTR, endruance, polo;
where you have to keep in time and balance with the horse.
______________________________________________________________________________
Understand the prinicples so you can devise your own methods.
Truman and Mystic "The Horse from HELL" Storm
pre...@lds.loral.com
______________________________________________________________________________
ro...@hasler.uucp
eventing clinic a few years ago. It helps get the horse more forward.
--
John Hasler uunet!hasler!root
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI 54740
PoloGirl
field. It really helps establish a good forward canter and gets you in
sort of a rhythm. I also do it while riding sets if I'm on an
uncomfortable horse.
Kathleen Hunt
>What's the difference between posting and just bouncing? The (or
>should I say "my") natural reaction to a horse TROT is to bounce up and
>down. Is this posting? Or am I lost again in terminological confusion?
The post is different. It's an ingenious way of controlled slow
bouncing that makes riding the trot feel silky smooth. The horse's back
goes up, down, up, down, during the trot, right? So, if you just let
yourself bounce to the trot, the horse's back tosses you up (with a
slight delay -- you are still up when the horse's back starts going down),
and by the time you come down again, the horse's back is on its way up again.
Like this:
Horse's back: Up Down Up Down Up Down
Your butt: Up Down Up Down Up Down etc.
^^ ^^
ow! ow!
In posting, you hold yourself up a touch longer than usual. (Feels sort
of like: if you decide to get up out a chair, and half-stand up, and then
change your mind and sit back down again) By the time you come down, the
horse's back has finished going up and is also going down, and you just
join it for the rest of the ride down, and then get launched up again.
Horse's back: Up Down Up Down Up Down
Your butt: Up..... suspend..Down Up....suspend..etc.
Took me a while to learn it completely. For a long time I didn't have
the rhythm quite right and I would get a tiny little jolt when I came
down (I was coming down too soon, I think). It was still more
comfortable than raw bouncing, though!
You've probably seen English riders doing this. It looks kind of dorky
because the rider appears to be hopping up and down for no apparent
reason. But actually the horse is launching the rider up, and the rider
is just slowing the descent, and it feels very smooth!
Other ways to get around the bounciness of a trot are either to absorb
the motion with your lower back (the sitting trot in English, and I
think western riders do this for slow jogs?) or to stand partially out of
the saddle and let your knees absorb the bounce (two-point position for
English; western riders do this a lot too, but I don't know what they
call it). And, of course, getting your horse to trot more slowly. It's
amazing how quickly students can learn to slow a trot down when the
teacher yells "All right everyone, SITTING TROT!"
Kathleen
Completely useless trivia: In "Return of the Jedi", Luke Skywalker was
posting when he rode that large curly-horned two-legged animal at the
beginning.
--
If we increase the size of the penguin until it is the same height as
the man and then compare the relative brain size, we now find that the
penguin's brain is still smaller. But, and this is the point, it is
larger than it *was*. (Monty Python)
Robert Givens
> get the horse more forward.-- > > John Hasler uunet!hasler!root
> Dancing Horse Hill
Posting I assume is what we here in England refere as rising to the trot.
why not post in the canter, there are times when we all find ourselves
doing it,
I think it comes about when we are at a transision stages our mount
canters when
we thionk he should trot, ot vicky verky, the important thing to
remember is if it help
both mount and rider, go for it.
Bob Givens.
Stephen Kerr
[Snippity Snip]
: Horse's back: Up Down Up Down Up Down
: Your butt: Up..... suspend..Down Up....suspend..etc.
: comfortable than raw bouncing, though!
Oooh the pain, the ecstasy! :)
: You've probably seen English riders doing this. It looks kind of dorky
: because the rider appears to be hopping up and down for no apparent
: reason. But actually the horse is launching the rider up, and the rider
: is just slowing the descent, and it feels very smooth!
: Other ways to get around the bounciness of a trot are either to absorb
: the motion with your lower back (the sitting trot in English, and I
: think western riders do this for slow jogs?) or to stand partially out of
: the saddle and let your knees absorb the bounce (two-point position for
: English; western riders do this a lot too, but I don't know what they
: call it). And, of course, getting your horse to trot more slowly. It's
: amazing how quickly students can learn to slow a trot down when the
: teacher yells "All right everyone, SITTING TROT!"
The going up and down bit you describe is called the `rising trot'. It is used
to make trotting more comfortable for both horse & rider. It is less likely to
make the horse tense than just bouncing on the saddle. The up & down motion is
in time with the two time beat of the trot.
If you think of the trot as a two time movement with a pair of diagonal legs
falling on beat one, and the opposite diagonal pair falling on the beat of
two you get a :-
1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 1 2 etc....
What the rider has to do is something like rise on beat one and sit on beat
two. The upwards motion of the horse should be used to push the rider out of
the saddle a small way. The rider should not pull on the reins to haul
themselves out of the saddle as this will have a detrimental effect.
Actively pushing yourself out of the saddle may make you rise in front of the
movement, in other words the rider will rise too quickly. Rising too far out of
the saddle will bring the rider behind the movement thus resulting in the double
bounce when the rider sits. The horse will be already moving upwards to change
to the opposite diagonal pair of the legs when the rider comes down.
The rider can `cheat' a bit to start with by holding onto the pommel of the
saddle to help steady themselves while they are going up and down. A person
in the middle of the school can also help by saying `Up Down Up Down etc..' as
the horse goes through the trot, this can be changed to `1 2 1 2 etc...'
after a period of time so it is more up to the rider to decide which is the
up beat and which is the down beat.
When working on circles, there is a `correct' diagonal pair of legs to rise
and sit to. On many horses rising & sitting on the `wrong diagonal' can feel
slightly uncomfortable or `out of sync'. There is a method to get the
`correct' diagonal pair of legs.
Looking down at the horse's fore leg which is to the outside of the circle,
the rider should sit down into the saddle when the leg is going back and
rise when the leg is going forward. If the direction of the circle is changed
as in a figure `8' then at the point of changing from one circle to another
circle, the rider should sit for two `beats' so new outside fore leg is risen
and sat to. Don't lean to far over when looking at the horse's leg as it will
unbalance both horse & rider, it also looks bad and shifts the riders weight
to far forward.
If anyone wants a follow up on how to feel which diagonal is the correct
diagonal to rise/sit to I will post it. It is a much better way as it means
you can sit up without leaning over and makes the movement much more fluid.
It will also help to sit into the saddle more.
--->Steve.
I used to teach people that had never sat on a horse before (mostly adults),
so you could say I had `great fun'. Don't know if I would ever do it again
though!
Exuse any bad English grammar in here as I have been up since 5am and is now
20 past 11pm and I'm tired and want to go to bed.
Also have a sore backside (nudge nudge wink wink!) from starting to get my
horse fit again after she has been mostly off work for 4 months so I'm a bit
unfit for riding.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ELM - st...@dutchess.demon.co.uk
I took a wrong turn and now I seem to be lost, the harder I try to find out
where I am the further I am from where I want to be.
Alexis Haines
>When working on circles, there is a `correct' diagonal pair of legs to rise
>and sit to. On many horses rising & sitting on the `wrong diagonal' can feel
>slightly uncomfortable or `out of sync'. There is a method to get the
>`correct' diagonal pair of legs.
>Looking down at the horse's fore leg which is to the outside of the circle,
>the rider should sit down into the saddle when the leg is going back and
>rise when the leg is going forward. If the direction of the circle is changed
>as in a figure `8' then at the point of changing from one circle to another
>circle, the rider should sit for two `beats' so new outside fore leg is risen
>and sat to. Don't lean to far over when looking at the horse's leg as it will
>unbalance both horse & rider, it also looks bad and shifts the riders weight
>to far forward.
>If anyone wants a follow up on how to feel which diagonal is the correct
>diagonal to rise/sit to I will post it. It is a much better way as it means
>you can sit up without leaning over and makes the movement much more fluid.
>It will also help to sit into the saddle more.
>--->Steve.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>ELM - st...@dutchess.demon.co.uk
Steve
I'd find this post really usefull.
I seem to have a real block with diagonals.
I understand the concept but seem unable to sit for just two beats in order
to change! It doesn't help that my horse is one sided and tends to throw me
back onto one diagona l and I'm a novice just to add more problems!
Thanks
Alexis
Oxford, England.
Douglas N McKay
Jo Crain <Jo Crain> wrote:
>>
>You are correct, a nice, sloping pastern, preferably with the same
>angle as the shoulder, has a lot to do with producing a smooth
>riding horse. The pastern is the horse's "shock absorber". I, too,
>hate what I see in the stallion issues of most magazines. They are
>still producing massive bodies on legs and hooves not equipped to
>carry them. I would like to buy a QH (NOT a QH/TB cross, which is
>what many QHs are nowadays), but I haven't found one yet that moves
>the way I want (that is, at a price I afford).
This sounds ominous. Are breeders fiddling around with the QH and changing
it's genetics, making it into some kind of watered down TB? YUK! By the
time I get around to having the money for a horse they'll all be screwed up
by the show people! Some folks are never satisfied are they? Change for
the sake of change, it sometimes seems. New and improved. Sure.
Doug McKay
(you know)
Bruce Saul
>This sounds ominous. Are breeders fiddling around with the QH and changing
>it's genetics, making it into some kind of watered down TB? YUK! By the
Don't worry, Doug, if you read up on Quarter Horse history you will
find that the QH has always been very much Thoroughbred in blood with a
little Spanish Mustang on the bottom side of the pedigrees. All QHs go
back to Thoroughbred ancestors, the early QHs were what they used to call
short racing horses, meaning not that they were physically short but that
they were race horses that did well on short courses. They were later
called Quarter Race Horses, then Quarter Horses. The registry itself was
not formed until 1940 so it is a fairly recent breed in terms of registration
though it has a long and fascinating history. Almost all QHs have gaps
in their pedigrees or places where usually on the bottom side of the
pedigree the horse has an undocumented horse or two, usually some
range blood or Spanish Mustang blood comes in there, this is one of the
reasons the registry was formed in the first place to give legitimate
pedigrees to many short distance horses that were not allowed to race on
Jockey Club tracks. The fact that many of these same horses went home
and did ranch work also was a bonus and spoke of the quality of the horses
of the times. But do not doubt that the QH already had much in common
with the Thoroughbred sprinters of the time period before the registry
came into existence.
If anything is new in Quarter Horses it is the beef cattle halter
look that seems to have become a characature of the horse of old, the trend
toward breeding them so down hill they have to go heavy on the forehand,
the trend toward upright pasterns I lay at the halter judges feet because
they don't penalize it (I was taught to look at legs first and foremost,
apparently today they don't look at them at all), the simultaneous loss
of mobility in the shoulders. These things are due not to TB influences
but rather to bad breeding and judging practices that judge a horse not
on his merits and his soundness but rather on some artfully concocted idea
of the right look for that breed. That has led to overuse of certain
bloodlines merely for the halter wins they provide without consideration
for the legs, feet, and structure that might be compromised.
But don't panic, trust me, do your research, read up on correct
conformation, on the history of the breed, and when you are ready to
go look trust me there are breeders out there who are breeding the old
sturdy, fast Quarter Horse just as they used to be. They will be hard to
find because they don't advertize in QH magazines and they don't go to
the Congress but they are there.
Tracy and everybody
MLC
<mcka...@maroon.tc.umn.edu> writes:
The subject Doug was responding to was about small hooves, massive bodies
on breeding QHs.
"This sounds ominous. Are breeders fiddling around with the QH and
changing
it's genetics, making it into some kind of watered down TB? YUK! By the
time I get around to having the money for a horse they'll all be screwed
up
by the show people! Some folks are never satisfied are they? Change for
the sake of change, it sometimes seems. New and improved. Sure."
Well, Doug, you're right that change for the sake of change is seldom
justified. However, I think the tendency for QHs to have those tiny pony
feet with massive bodies standing on them has been a tendency in the breed
for a long time. TBs are not known for good feet, but they don't have
small ones either.
Many QHs have had an admixture of TB blood for a long time--this is not a
recent trend, especially the racing QH lines. I seem to remember an
international jumper in the late 60's named Fire One who was registered QH
but 7/8 bred TB.
I believe the present trend is for a bit more refinement in the show type
QH, (as opposed to the "Bulldog type" hence probably more interest in TB
admixture.
--MLC
Becky-APHA Lover
>
>...... they'll all be screwed up
>the sake of change, it sometimes seems. New and improved. Sure.
>
>Doug McKay
>
Hey Doug, let's start a thread on breeding, shall we? Your perception of
changing for the sake of change is an interesting observation. Most of us serious
breeders (not the one's looking strictly for $$$) are out to improve the breed - and
our own individuals, of course. What dictates that "improvement", I believe, is
what we see in the winner's circle, which of course, is a reflection of the judge's
taste, and ideally, the breed association's. So if the judge is of a mind to pick
a horse who's pastern and shoulder slope don't match, or are too steep in both
(which gives a "peggy" ride), or who's muscle mass is way too much for the fine
skeletal makeup, and that type of horse is pictured in the Journal as a "champion",
then naturally those "want-to-be's" are going to try their best to breed those "winning"
characteristics. Sad, but that's the way it is. Solution? IMO, keep after the breed
association's judges committees to select only those judges who demonstrate true
knowedge of what a halter horse is and what a pleasure horse is and what a cow horse is
and what a gaming horse is, etc. And keep after the show commitee to hire only those
judges who demonstrate those qualities. Really, these are not pie-in-the-sky
recommendations. Most committees LOVE to hear from real people.
My observation of the Paints is that in the past 10-15 years the breed has improved
tremendously in their beauty (halter) and rail ability. This can be directly related to
careful crossbreeding on Quarter horses. Watered down? I don't think so. Enhanced?
Yes, definitely (IMO)!
However, until the judges "get it right", and when you're in the position to breed, select the
stallion (or mare) that has the qualities you admire. But, alas, be prepared to stand outside the
winner's circle if your ideal is not that of that particular breed's or her judges....or do what over
85% of horse owners do, and just enjoy your beautiful animal on the trails and forget the
competition stuff and all the breeding pressure that goes with it.
Adios, Becky
rher...@mayo.edu
SE Minnesota
Tami Kramer
Here in France, some (I think 10%) of all the winnings of a horse
goes to the breeder (in recognized competitions), and I think this
promotes good breeding. Even if the breeder isn't very smart, when
he gets a little monetary return from a particular horse, he's going
to start thinking about what qualities that particular horse had, and
maybe try to improve his stock.
Do they have anything like this in America??
Tami
Living and riding in France near Geneva, Switzerland.
Herbert Kanner
>Looking down at the horse's fore leg which is to the outside of the circle,
>the rider should sit down into the saddle when the leg is going back and
>rise when the leg is going forward. If the direction of the circle is changed
>as in a figure `8' then at the point of changing from one circle to another
>circle, the rider should sit for two `beats' so new outside fore leg is risen
>and sat to. Don't lean to far over when looking at the horse's leg as it will
>unbalance both horse & rider, it also looks bad and shifts the riders weight
>to far forward.
>If anyone wants a follow up on how to feel which diagonal is the correct
>diagonal to rise/sit to I will post it. It is a much better way as it means
>you can sit up without leaning over and makes the movement much more fluid.
>It will also help to sit into the saddle more.
I would like to elaborate a bit on the previous posting. There is no
need to lean forward to see which fore leg is going forward. You can
tell that by looking at the shoulder--I think it is the shoulder
blades. On every horse I've ever ridden it is quite visible.
What frustated me for 25 years was my inability to post on the desired
diagonal without looking, e.g., with my eyes closed. Finally, after a
few year of dressage lessons put my legs consistently in the right
place, I discovered how! If the legs are firmly against the horse,
one can feel the sides of the animal alternately bulging. For "right"
diagonal, I rise when the right side bulges, (or is it the left side
... :-) well it works when I'm on the horse, but sitting at the
computer I get confused.)
--
Herb Kanner
Apple Computer, Inc.
kan...@apple.com
PGP fingerprint: 83 3C 8D D0 83 0D B9 C1 6C A3 30 BD 0B 5A DB 71
Stephen Kerr
: I would like to elaborate a bit on the previous posting. There is no
: need to lean forward to see which fore leg is going forward. You can
: tell that by looking at the shoulder--I think it is the shoulder
: blades. On every horse I've ever ridden it is quite visible.
The original post was meant for beginners, a lot of people when they start
out riding have difficulty in telling which leg is moving where, you with
experience can see out of the corner of your eye, a lot of beginners can't
tell without actually looking properly at what is going on to see exactly
how the legs move in trot. I am not advocating this as a `proper' method.
When I used to teach, I used to allow beginners to look forward to start with
whilst telling them this was wrong, when they were sure about how things
looked, then I taught them how to `feel' the legs moving while looking up.
I would get them to walk, then trot sitting and ask them to rise when they
thought they felt the correct diagonal, I would then get them to tell me
whether they thought they were right or wrong, only then would I tell them
if their decision was right or wrong.
: What frustated me for 25 years was my inability to post on the desired
: diagonal without looking, e.g., with my eyes closed. Finally, after a
: few year of dressage lessons put my legs consistently in the right
: place, I discovered how! If the legs are firmly against the horse,
: one can feel the sides of the animal alternately bulging. For "right"
: diagonal, I rise when the right side bulges, (or is it the left side
: .... :-) well it works when I'm on the horse, but sitting at the
: computer I get confused.)
In UK, we generally teach proper riding technique to start (dressage as you
americans term it! ;) ), so people are taught properly to start with. As an
instance, when I started to ride when I was 18, I spent the first five
months without stirrups at all! This include walk, sitting trot, `rising' trot
and canter, so I had to learn balance from the very beginning! All this was
on different horses each lesson so I couldn't get set into the ways of any
particular horse, it was agony, but worth it, as I am probably slightly
better because of it!
My horse can buck high enough to get her hind feet higher than my head while
I am on her back, some people think that I must be superglued to the saddle!
(english saddle) I just close my eyes and pray! (joking!). Actually I find
it pretty funny, only time I will probably fall off is laughing in hysterics!
--->Steve.
: --
: Herb Kanner
: Apple Computer, Inc.
Can my horse have some of your apples? I want to teach her computer literacy!
: PGP fingerprint: 83 3C 8D D0 83 0D B9 C1 6C A3 30 BD 0B 5A DB 71
Don't know about numbers, but my fingerprints have
funny swirly bits on them!
--
Michael S. Czeiszperger - Gateway Development
>Herbert Kanner (kan...@apple.com) wrote:
>
>In UK, we generally teach proper riding technique to start (dressage as you
>americans term it! ;) ), so people are taught properly to start with.
That's interesting to hear. A dressage rider friend of mine visits England
every month to see her husband. (He took a job that requires two weeks in
England every month.) She said she couldn't find anyone who knew anything
about dressage, and that none of the tack shops she visited even carried
dressage saddles.
---
Michael Czeiszperger | "Courage, wisdom born of insight and humility, empathy
Raleigh, NC | born of compassion and love, all can be bequeathed by a
cz...@gateway.bsis.com | horse to his rider." --Charles De Kunffy
Brandy Thorp
>...I understand the concept but seem unable to sit for just
>two beats in order to change! ....
It helps me to think that I just need to sit ONE beat. The other
beat happens while I'm in the air.
Plus, the transition from walk to trot isn't a jumpy one like
the canter. If you know when the outside shoulder is forward
in the walk and start counting then you will always get the
correct diagnal after the transition.
I'm not sure that I've ever learned to feel the difference, but
I have gotton into the habbit of counting and checking and I
rarely get it wrong any longer. (knock on wood!)
Good Luck!
..BrandyT and Pajtas.
Stephen Kerr
: In article , st...@dutchess.demon.co.uk (Stephen Kerr) writes:
: >Herbert Kanner (kan...@apple.com) wrote:
: >
: >In UK, we generally teach proper riding technique to start (dressage as you
: >americans term it! ;) ), so people are taught properly to start with.
: That's interesting to hear. A dressage rider friend of mine visits England
: every month to see her husband. (He took a job that requires two weeks in
: England every month.) She said she couldn't find anyone who knew anything
: about dressage, and that none of the tack shops she visited even carried
: dressage saddles.
hmmm.....Must be going to the wrong places then! The majority of people at my
yard have done dressage at some point and probably about 1/3rd of them own
dressage saddles. My saddle is a GP (General Purpose) made to measure (both
the horse and me) and was designed to allow both jumping and dressage,
although not to the degree that a proper dressage or jumping saddle would.
It suits my purposes at the moment!
The majority of tack shops I have been to have dressage saddles for sale, at
the very least, 2nd hand ones.
--->Steve.
Got to finish there, going through 600 mail message, and 500 usenet messages.