So the NRA are idiots for suggesting that we put armed guards in the schools

[Steve W.]

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323

Clinton Pledges Funds to Add Police to Schools

April 16, 2000|LAWRENCE L. KNUTSON | ASSOCIATED PRESS


WASHINGTON � Marking the first anniversary of the shooting deaths at
Columbine High School, President Clinton announced $120 million in new
federal grants Saturday to place more police officers in schools and
help even the youngest kids cope with their problems.

"In our national struggle against youth violence we must not fail our
children; our future depends on it," the president said in his weekly
radio address.

Clinton announced that he and First Lady Hillary Rodham Clinton will
host a White House conference on teenagers on May 2 to "talk through the
challenges of raising responsible children."

Parents, teens, teachers, youth workers and others will discuss research
that indicates the preteen years set patterns for behavior and success
in adulthood. Other subjects will include the risks, challenges and
anxieties faced by young people today and what can be done to avoid
dangerous or risky behavior.

"We need to talk about safety and security in every house in America,"
Clinton said.

Republican critics said the federal government is a clumsy middleman in
trying to cope with problems that should be addressed locally. They cast
doubt on whether the teen conference would accomplish anything, accused
Clinton of ignoring media violence and said he should support stiff jail
sentences for anyone carrying a firearm in a violent or drug-related crime.

Clinton announced $40 million in grants for 23 school districts that he
said have found successful, comprehensive approaches to help troubled
young people.

"These districts are bringing school nurses and counselors together to
respond to warning signs like depression or bullying," Clinton said.
"They are improving classroom security and expanding after-school and
mentoring programs."

Clinton also unveiled the $60-million fifth round of funding for "COPS
in School," a Justice Department program that helps pay the costs of
placing police officers in schools to help make them safer for students
and teachers. The money will be used to provide 452 officers in schools
in more than 220 communities.

"Already, it has placed 2,200 officers in more than 1,000 communities
across our nation, where they are heightening school safety as well as
coaching sports and acting as mentors and mediators for kids in need,"
Clinton said.

Finally, Clinton said the Education Department has earmarked $20 million
for local proposals to create or expand counseling programs for
elementary school children. "We have seen all too clearly that even our
youngest children need our help," he said.

"As we prepare next week to mark the one-year anniversary of the tragedy
at Columbine High School, our thoughts turn to the safety of our
communities, schools and children," Clinton said. "All of us--parents,
schools, communities and government--share responsibility to keep kids
safe."

On April 20, 1999, two students at Columbine High in Littleton, Colo.,
fatally shot 12 students and a teacher before killing themselves.

Clinton's proposals drew instant comment from Republicans.

"The White House conference on teenagers is sure to draw national
headlines and attention, but unlikely to add new light to these
troubling questions," said Rep. J.C. Watts Jr. (R-Okla.), chairman of
the House Republican Conference. He said the solutions will be found
around America's kitchen tables, "not from Washington or from posturing
politicians."

Republican National Committee Chairman Jim Nicholson accused Clinton of
having "shamelessly politicized and taken advantage of national
tragedies" while ignoring the films, television programs and music
videos Nicholson said are responsible for creating "a culture of death"
among youthful Americans. Instead of using his office to combat the
entertainment industry, Clinton has chosen to use the industry as a
source of campaign cash, he said.

[Stormin Mormon]

But, those are government guns.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kb9p3b$p5k$1...@dont-email.me...

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323

Clinton Pledges Funds to Add Police to Schools

April 16, 2000|LAWRENCE L. KNUTSON | ASSOCIATED PRESS

WASHINGTON � Marking the first anniversary of the shooting deaths at

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:kb9p3b$p5k$1...@dont-email.me...
> http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323
>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html


Deputy Neil Gardner was a 15-year veteran of the Jefferson County, Colo.,
Sheriff�s Office assigned as the uniformed officer at Columbine. According
to an account compiled by the police department, Gardner fired on Harris but
was unsuccessful in stopping him:
Gardner, seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the
car and fired four shots. He was 60 yards from the gunman. Harris spun hard
to the right and Gardner momentarily thought he had hit him. Seconds later,
Harris began shooting again at the deputy.
After the exchange of gunfire, Harris ran back into the building. Gardner
was able to get on the police radio and called for assistance from other
Sheriff�s units. "Shots in the building. I need someone in the south lot
with me."


The second officer was Deputy Paul Smoker, a motorcycle patrolman who was
near the school writing a speeding ticket. When he heard a dispatch of a
woman injured at the high school, he responded. He, too, fired at Harris but
didn't stop him.

[jon_banquer]

On Dec 24, 9:44 am, "PrecisionmachinisT"

<precisionmachinist...@notmail.com> wrote:
> "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:kb9p3b$p5k$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> >http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323
>

> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_234...

>
> Deputy Neil Gardner was a 15-year veteran of the Jefferson County, Colo.,
> Sheriff’s Office assigned as the uniformed officer at Columbine. According
> to an account compiled by the police department, Gardner fired on Harris but
> was unsuccessful in stopping him:
>   Gardner, seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the
> car and fired four shots. He was 60 yards from the gunman. Harris spun hard
> to the right and Gardner momentarily thought he had hit him. Seconds later,
> Harris began shooting again at the deputy.
>   After the exchange of gunfire, Harris ran back into the building. Gardner
> was able to get on the police radio and called for assistance from other
> Sheriff’s units. "Shots in the building. I need someone in the south lot
> with me."
>
> The second officer was Deputy Paul Smoker, a motorcycle patrolman who was
> near the school writing a speeding ticket. When he heard a dispatch of a
> woman injured at the high school, he responded. He, too, fired at Harris but
> didn't stop him.

How about armed guards on every fire truck to prevent this from
happening again:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/24/webster-new-york-firefighter-shot/1788917/

[J. Clarke]

In article <HYCdnXkzC7EBCUXN...@scnresearch.com>,
precisionm...@notmail.com says...

>
> "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:kb9p3b$p5k$1...@dont-email.me...
> > http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323
> >
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html
>
>
> Deputy Neil Gardner was a 15-year veteran of the Jefferson County, Colo.,

> Sheriff?s Office assigned as the uniformed officer at Columbine. According

> to an account compiled by the police department, Gardner fired on Harris but
> was unsuccessful in stopping him:
> Gardner, seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the
> car and fired four shots. He was 60 yards from the gunman. Harris spun hard
> to the right and Gardner momentarily thought he had hit him. Seconds later,
> Harris began shooting again at the deputy.
> After the exchange of gunfire, Harris ran back into the building. Gardner
> was able to get on the police radio and called for assistance from other

> Sheriff?s units. "Shots in the building. I need someone in the south lot

> with me."
>
>
> The second officer was Deputy Paul Smoker, a motorcycle patrolman who was
> near the school writing a speeding ticket. When he heard a dispatch of a
> woman injured at the high school, he responded. He, too, fired at Harris but
> didn't stop him.

60 yards with a police-issue handgun under stress would be damned good
shooting. On the other hand it wouldn't be much of a shot with any
halfway decent rifle--while the "decency" of the one Harris had is
debatable, any competent rifleman (and I don't mean "military sniper")
should still have been able to make a 60 yard shot with it without much
difficultly. I'd say that Gardner's alive because Harris hadn't had the
"proficiency training" that so many gun control advocates want people to
have before they're allowed to own a firearm. On the other hand, if
Gardner had had a decent rifle he should have been able to put Harris
down right quick.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.2b426e1b9...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...

If Harris had a decent rifle then it's just as likely that he'd never have
heard the first shot.

[Stormin Mormon]

Cop was unharmed, cause the kid learned
to shoot by watching A-Team?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.2b426e1b9...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...
>

[Gunner]

http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/5939904-Citizen-shoots-trailer-park-gunman-saves-Texas-officer/

I thought 'he's fixin' to kill that boy,'" Stacy told the Brownwood
Bulletin. "And that's why I squared off and hit him in the leg and
knocked him down."

Police estimate Stacy was about 150 feet away when he fired his .357
magnum pistol, striking Conner four times. Investigators determined as
Conner returned fire to Stacy, Means also hit Conner at least twice �
and a combination of their bullets killed him.

Police praised Stacy for his outstanding shooting in the incident,
which happened July 29, and willingness to step in to a dangerous
confrontation.

"The citizen that fired these shots did a tremendous job out there,"
Brown County Sheriff Bobby Grubbs said. "Had he not had a gun and the
presence of mind to do this, we don't know what the outcome would've
been."


The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

[RogerN]

"Gunner" wrote in message
news:v8fhd8p88l96uv1e3...@4ax.com...

>On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 13:50:52 -0500, "J. Clarke"
><jclark...@cox.net> wrote:
>

<snip>

>>60 yards with a police-issue handgun under stress would be damned good
>>shooting. On the other hand it wouldn't be much of a shot with any
>>halfway decent rifle--while the "decency" of the one Harris had is
>>debatable, any competent rifleman (and I don't mean "military sniper")
>>should still have been able to make a 60 yard shot with it without much
>>difficultly. I'd say that Gardner's alive because Harris hadn't had the
>>"proficiency training" that so many gun control advocates want people to
>>have before they're allowed to own a firearm. On the other hand, if
>>Gardner had had a decent rifle he should have been able to put Harris
>>down right quick.
>>
>
>http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/5939904-Citizen-shoots-trailer-park-gunman-saves-Texas-officer/
>
>I thought 'he's fixin' to kill that boy,'" Stacy told the Brownwood
>Bulletin. "And that's why I squared off and hit him in the leg and
>knocked him down."
>
>Police estimate Stacy was about 150 feet away when he fired his .357
>magnum pistol, striking Conner four times. Investigators determined as

>Conner returned fire to Stacy, Means also hit Conner at least twice -

>and a combination of their bullets killed him.
>
>Police praised Stacy for his outstanding shooting in the incident,
>which happened July 29, and willingness to step in to a dangerous
>confrontation.
>
>"The citizen that fired these shots did a tremendous job out there,"
>Brown County Sheriff Bobby Grubbs said. "Had he not had a gun and the
>presence of mind to do this, we don't know what the outcome would've
>been."

-- Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia
shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China
Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed
off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead:
Zero.

-- Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded
restaurant; concealed carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two.
(I'm excluding the shooters' deaths in these examples.)

-- Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a
professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition,
two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him.
Total dead: Three.

-- Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates -- as well
as the "trained campus supervisor"; an off-duty cop who happened to be
bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter,
holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

-- Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at
his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant
principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at
the gunman's head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

-- Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being
held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the
gunman. Total dead: One.

By contrast, the shootings in gun-free zones invariably result in far higher
casualty figures -- Sikh temple, Oak Creek, Wis. (six dead); Virginia Tech,
Blacksburg, Va. (32 dead); Columbine High School, Columbine, Colo. (12
dead); Amish school, Lancaster County, Pa. (five little girls killed);
public school, Craighead County, Ark. (five killed, including four little
girls).

All these took place in gun-free zones, resulting in lots of people getting
killed -- and thereby warranting inclusion in the Mother Jones study.

If what we care about is saving the lives of innocent human beings by
reducing the number of mass public shootings and the deaths they cause, only
one policy has ever been shown to work: concealed-carry laws. On the other
hand, if what we care about is self-indulgent grandstanding, and to hell
with dozens of innocent children being murdered in cold blood, try the other
policies.

[Steve W.]

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
> "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:kb9p3b$p5k$1...@dont-email.me...
>> http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323
>>
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html
>
>
> Deputy Neil Gardner was a 15-year veteran of the Jefferson County, Colo.,

> Sheriff�s Office assigned as the uniformed officer at Columbine. According

> to an account compiled by the police department, Gardner fired on Harris but
> was unsuccessful in stopping him:
> Gardner, seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the
> car and fired four shots. He was 60 yards from the gunman. Harris spun hard
> to the right and Gardner momentarily thought he had hit him. Seconds later,
> Harris began shooting again at the deputy.
> After the exchange of gunfire, Harris ran back into the building. Gardner
> was able to get on the police radio and called for assistance from other

> Sheriff�s units. "Shots in the building. I need someone in the south lot

> with me."
>
>
> The second officer was Deputy Paul Smoker, a motorcycle patrolman who was
> near the school writing a speeding ticket. When he heard a dispatch of a
> woman injured at the high school, he responded. He, too, fired at Harris but
> didn't stop him.
>
>

So you're argument is that two poorly trained POLICE OFFICERS are the
reason why Bill Clinton called for the EXACT SAME thing that Wayne says
would work?

Isn't it strange that it is also the cry of those on your side is also
that ONLY the POLICE and MILITARY should have guns. And then you
demonstrate that the POLICE are poorly trained.

[RogerN]

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:HYCdnXkzC7EBCUXN...@scnresearch.com...

Sometimes cars' brakes don't work but that doesn't mean we ban brakes on
cars!

http://townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/2012/12/19/we-know-how-to-stop-school-shootings-n1470804

In the wake of a monstrous crime like a madman's mass murder of defenseless
women and children at the Newtown, Conn., elementary school, the nation's
attention is riveted on what could have been done to prevent such a
massacre.

Luckily, some years ago, two famed economists, William Landes at the
University of Chicago and John Lott at Yale, conducted a massive study of
multiple victim public shootings in the United States between 1977 and 1995
to see how various legal changes affected their frequency and death toll.

Landes and Lott examined many of the very policies being proposed right now
in response to the Connecticut massacre: waiting periods and background
checks for guns, the death penalty and increased penalties for committing a
crime with a gun.

None of these policies had any effect on the frequency of, or carnage from,
multiple-victim shootings. (I note that they did not look at reforming our
lax mental health laws, presumably because the ACLU is working to keep
dangerous nuts on the street in all 50 states.)

Only one public policy has ever been shown to reduce the death rate from
such crimes: concealed-carry laws.

Their study controlled for age, sex, race, unemployment, retirement, poverty
rates, state population, murder arrest rates, violent crime rates, and on
and on.

The effect of concealed-carry laws in deterring mass public shootings was
even greater than the impact of such laws on the murder rate generally.

Someone planning to commit a single murder in a concealed-carry state only
has to weigh the odds of one person being armed. But a criminal planning to
commit murder in a public place has to worry that anyone in the entire area
might have a gun.

You will notice that most multiple-victim shootings occur in "gun-free
zones" -- even within states that have concealed-carry laws: public schools,
churches, Sikh temples, post offices, the movie theater where James Holmes
committed mass murder, and the Portland, Ore., mall where a nut starting
gunning down shoppers a few weeks ago.

Guns were banned in all these places. Mass killers may be crazy, but they're
not stupid.

If the deterrent effect of concealed-carry laws seems surprising to you,
that's because the media hide stories of armed citizens stopping mass
shooters. At the Portland shooting, for example, no explanation was given
for the amazing fact that the assailant managed to kill only two people in
the mall during the busy Christmas season.

It turns out, concealed-carry-holder Nick Meli hadn't noticed that the mall
was a gun-free zone. He pointed his (otherwise legal) gun at the shooter as
he paused to reload, and the next shot was the attempted mass murderer
killing himself. (Meli aimed, but didn't shoot, because there were
bystanders behind the shooter.)

In a nonsense "study" going around the Internet right now, Mother Jones
magazine claims to have produced its own study of all public shootings in
the last 30 years and concludes: "In not a single case was the killing
stopped by a civilian using a gun."

This will come as a shock to people who know something about the subject.

The magazine reaches its conclusion by simply excluding all cases where an
armed civilian stopped the shooter: They looked only at public shootings
where four or more people were killed, i.e., the ones where the shooter
wasn't stopped.

If we care about reducing the number of people killed in mass shootings,
shouldn't we pay particular attention to the cases where the aspiring mass
murderer was prevented from getting off more than a couple rounds?

It would be like testing the effectiveness of weed killers, but refusing to
consider any cases where the weeds died.

In addition to the Portland mall case, here are a few more examples excluded
by the Mother Jones' methodology:

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote in message
news:JaCdnao8hatNWUXN...@earthlink.com...

What in the fuck makes you imagine that I would stand in support of 'gun
free zones" ?

Here is a list:

Probably about 1/3 them are accidental or unjustified killings of unarmed
citizens etc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States_2011

The list is not totally inclusive; according to some sources, the number is
actually nearer to 400--in contrast, 173 police officers and countless
private security personell weren't so lucky that year.

Sitting ducks that they are.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message

news:kbage6$380$1...@dont-email.me...

> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>> "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:kb9p3b$p5k$1...@dont-email.me...
>>> http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323
>>>
>>
>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_2347096.html
>>
>>
>> Deputy Neil Gardner was a 15-year veteran of the Jefferson County, Colo.,

>> Sheriff’s Office assigned as the uniformed officer at Columbine.

>> According to an account compiled by the police department, Gardner fired
>> on Harris but was unsuccessful in stopping him:
>> Gardner, seeing Harris working with his gun, leaned over the top of the
>> car and fired four shots. He was 60 yards from the gunman. Harris spun
>> hard to the right and Gardner momentarily thought he had hit him. Seconds
>> later, Harris began shooting again at the deputy.
>> After the exchange of gunfire, Harris ran back into the building.
>> Gardner was able to get on the police radio and called for assistance

>> from other Sheriff’s units. "Shots in the building. I need someone in the

>> south lot with me."
>>
>>
>> The second officer was Deputy Paul Smoker, a motorcycle patrolman who was
>> near the school writing a speeding ticket. When he heard a dispatch of a
>> woman injured at the high school, he responded. He, too, fired at Harris
>> but didn't stop him.
>>
>>
>
> So you're argument is that two poorly trained POLICE OFFICERS are the

No.

My arguement is that having a society in which 3/4 of the population is
employed as armed security for schools, malls, theatres the filthy rich is
not an economically feasable option

> reason why Bill Clinton called for the EXACT SAME thing that Wayne says
> would work?
>
> Isn't it strange that it is also the cry of those on your side is also

Fuck off you have no idea what "side" I'm on, you clueless nitwit.

> that ONLY the POLICE and MILITARY should have guns. And then you
> demonstrate that the POLICE are poorly trained.

Everybody should have his own personal suitcase bomb, it is the only thing
that will make us all safe.

[jon_banquer]

On Dec 24, 1:46 pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"

<precisionmachinist...@notmail.com> wrote:
> "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:kbage6$380$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
> >> "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>news:kb9p3b$p5k$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>>http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323
>

> >>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_234...

Very few here want to deal with this reality.

[RogerN]

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:GsSdnf1Cg-rOUEXN...@scnresearch.com...

>"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:kbage6$380$1...@dont-email.me...

<snip>

>>
>> So you're argument is that two poorly trained POLICE OFFICERS are the
>
>No.
>
>My arguement is that having a society in which 3/4 of the population is
>employed as armed security for schools, malls, theatres the filthy rich is
>not an economically feasable option

True, how about concealed carry? That way people employed as teachers can
defend themselves and the children. Some might get killed, but I'd rather
be killed trying than killed defenseless. Workers and shoppers at the mall
would be able to defend themselves also. Imagine a gunman in a mall and all
of a sudden 30 armed citizens are pointing a gun at him ready to fire. The
fact is, legal or illegal, guns exist and gun laws will not change that
fact.

Murders are going to have guns, law or no law, the questions is if we should
allow those who obey the law to also have guns?

RogerN

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote in message news:cZCdnXbnO7ALeUXN...@earthlink.com...

> "PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
> news:GsSdnf1Cg-rOUEXN...@scnresearch.com...
>
>>"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:kbage6$380$1...@dont-email.me...
> <snip>
>>>
>>> So you're argument is that two poorly trained POLICE OFFICERS are the
>>
>>No.
>>
>>My arguement is that having a society in which 3/4 of the population is
>>employed as armed security for schools, malls, theatres the filthy rich is
>>not an economically feasable option
>
> True, how about concealed carry? That way people employed as teachers can
> defend themselves and the children. Some might get killed, but I'd rather

Sorry but I don't happen percieve that there's been an escalation in anti-concealed-carry sentiment in the general public as a result of the Newtown shootings.

Probably it's those voices in your head, as per the usual...

> be killed trying than killed defenseless. Workers and shoppers at the mall
> would be able to defend themselves also. Imagine a gunman in a mall and all
> of a sudden 30 armed citizens are pointing a gun at him ready to fire. The
> fact is, legal or illegal, guns exist and gun laws will not change that
> fact.
>
> Murders are going to have guns, law or no law, the questions is if we should
> allow those who obey the law to also have guns?
>

As long as people obey the laws, there's no reason why they shouldn't be allowed to have a nuclear weapon that will instantly vaporize the entire planet.....

[RogerN]

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:7s2dnU3Zotu3cEXN...@scnresearch.com...

>"RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote in message
>news:cZCdnXbnO7ALeUXN...@earthlink.com...

<snip>

>> True, how about concealed carry? That way people employed as teachers
>> can
>> defend themselves and the children. Some might get killed, but I'd
>> rather
>
>Sorry but I don't happen percieve that there's been an escalation in
>anti-concealed-carry sentiment in the general public as a result of the
>Newtown shootings.
>
>Probably it's those voices in your head, as per the usual...

So the teachers at Newtown school were allowed to have guns?

[J. Clarke]

In article <xoidnYPW_Y9TL0XN...@scnresearch.com>,
precisionm...@notmail.com says...

Huh? The rifle Harris had was quite capable of hitting a man-sized
target at 60 yards. Why would a different one have had this outcome?

[F.K.]

By God, Sir! You are absolutely correct and the logical solution is to
disarm those nasty police officers.

On second thought perhaps the answer is to do away with the police all
together. Think of the tax savings that would be possible.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.2b42c6025...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...

It was jammed, and it was also lacking optics which would have allowed him
to have taken out the (SUPPOSED) "security detail" in advance via sniping
technique.

Got any other stupid questions ?

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote in message

news:n4KdndHbrM86aEXN...@earthlink.com...

You are conflating right to concealed carry with some ill concieved policy
that oulaws firearms outright in certain areas, without having armed
personnel to insure compliance...and then actring as though you have some
preconcieved motion that I would somehow be supportive of such policy.

Mighty presumptuous on your part, do you habitually preach to the choir ?

--The school staff knew full in advance the hazards, if they don't wish to
work under such restrictions then they were perfectly free to find work
elsewhere.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"PrecisionmachinisT" <precisionm...@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:nu6dndylr6vApETN...@scnresearch.com...

Bottom line here is Gardener was a fucking coward.

[a friend]

I guess firefighters need armed guards also? they can't shoot back
while holding a hose. I guess you NRA idiots want us tax payers to pay
for an armed guard every 10 feet across the nation - we can't afford
teachers or road repair, how the heck will we pay for the police state
you envision? how many billions per year for the 100 million armed
guards? I'm sick and tired of being handed the bill for your hobbies.


--
For a $5 dollar donation today you get credit for $10 with HIM

[Gunner]

Odd..we are tired of the billions of dollars required for your AIDS
treatments..and your drug addictions.

And your criminals...some 89% of those in prison are Democrats.

Seems to be we need to relax the gun restrictions and let the People
shoot back. Before long..there would be a hell of a lot less
Democrats, less insane people with guns (most of course being
Democrats) and the expenses would simply be buried with the perps

Hell..put a M242 in every firetruck. Solve that problem really quick
wouldnt it?


Gunner

[RogerN]

"a friend" wrote in message news:kbbf74$dm3$1...@dont-email.me...

>On 12/24/2012 4:38 PM, RogerN wrote:

><snip>

>> So the teachers at Newtown school were allowed to have guns?
>>
>I guess firefighters need armed guards also? they can't shoot back while
>holding a hose. I guess you NRA idiots want us tax payers to pay for an
>armed guard every 10 feet across the nation - we can't afford teachers or
>road repair, how the heck will we pay for the police state you envision?
>how many billions per year for the 100 million armed guards? I'm sick and
>tired of being handed the bill for your hobbies.
>

When the immoral people of the USA elect an immoral president and immoral
politicians, you can expect crime to go up and the suggested solutions to be
stupid. Elections have consequences. Heading for fiscal cliff, commander
and chief on vacation yet again. Chicago is an example of the failure of
gun control, also notice the voted for Obama. I'd guess 75% or more of the
crazy shootings come from areas that voted for Obama. The immoral vote for
Obama, did you notice the Democrats left GOD out of their platform until it
was noticed, then they stuck GOD back in at the boo's of the immoral Obama
supporters.

Bottom line, to shoot at firemen or school children is a symptom of
immorality which is a symptom of the Democratic party. Both parties are
immoral but Democrats make immorality their party platform... abortion,
illegal drugs being legalized, gay marriage, taking money away from people
that earn it and give it to people that are able but refuse to work, being
sworn in to uphold the constitution and then doing the opposite, ....

[John B.]

I hate to tell you but the average pistol shooter can probably hit a 6
inch pie plate every shot at 60 yards. contrary to what the cowboy
movies used to teach,

The 10 ring on a 50 yard slow fire target is a hair over 3 inches in
diameter and even the average pistol shooter keeps a large percentage
of his shots in that circle. 50 yards is 20% further so at 60 yards a
target that is about 4 inches would be the equivalent size.
--
Cheers,
John B.

[J. Clarke]

In article <sN2dnWA9tt-soETN...@scnresearch.com>,
precisionm...@notmail.com says...

The school staff might have been, but did the kids have the same choice?

[J. Clarke]

In article <nu6dndylr6vApETN...@scnresearch.com>,

The only stupidity I see here is coming from the person who thinks that
a weapon stoppage that was cleared prevents getting a first round hit
(before the stoppage occured) and that one needs "optics" to hit someone
at 60 yards with a rifle.

[a friend]

Oh, you must be so right with that brilliant insight - how about armed
guards to shoot at immoral people. They will know that they are immoral
people because they won't be armed guards themselves

sadly, your lovely republicans have practiced immorality and ingrained
it into our society - steal from the poor and give to the rich, murder
innocents, eliminate legal protections and use the death penalty against
those who are different, eliminate education, eliminate kindness, and
shoot dissenters. Yes, you guys have done wonders and improved the
prospects of all who hate the united states and what it used to stand
for. Those of the "greatest generation" died for nothing, you have
destroyed it all. Congratulations

[RogerN]

"a friend" wrote in message news:kbctk6$6vh$1...@dont-email.me...

>On 12/25/2012 3:26 AM, RogerN wrote:
>> "a friend" wrote in message news:kbbf74$dm3$1...@dont-email.me...
>>
>>> On 12/24/2012 4:38 PM, RogerN wrote:
>>> <snip>

<snip>

>> Bottom line, to shoot at firemen or school children is a symptom of
>> immorality which is a symptom of the Democratic party. Both parties are
>> immoral but Democrats make immorality their party platform... abortion,
>> illegal drugs being legalized, gay marriage, taking money away from
>> people
>> that earn it and give it to people that are able but refuse to work,
>> being
>> sworn in to uphold the constitution and then doing the opposite, ....
>>
>
>Oh, you must be so right with that brilliant insight - how about armed
>guards to shoot at immoral people. They will know that they are immoral
>people because they won't be armed guards themselves

No brilliant insight, just takes pulling your head out of your ass and
opening your eyes.

>sadly, your lovely republicans have practiced immorality and ingrained it
>into our society - steal from the poor and give to the rich, murder
>innocents, eliminate legal protections and use the death penalty against
>those who are different, eliminate education, eliminate kindness, and shoot
>dissenters. Yes, you guys have done wonders and improved the prospects of
>all who hate the united states and what it used to stand for. Those of the
>"greatest generation" died for nothing, you have destroyed it all.
>Congratulations
>
>--
>For a $5 dollar donation today you get credit for $10 with HIM

So you are for killing the innocent, 4615 X 5 days a week X 52 weeks a year,
with abortion and are for protecting the guilty that are on death row?
Death penalty for those who are innocent? Like the unborn? All so the
immorals can have illicit sex without consequences. Every since Obama's
apology tour and display of weakness the USA has been under terrorist
attack. Bush's tough war on terrorism that libtards condemned worked well,
but Obama brought the attacks back, complete with Obama ignoring calls for
help and then covering it up, trying to blame a video that had nothing to do
with the attacks in Libya. Look how the world has changed since Obama's
apology tour, Egypt is now controlled by the Muslim brotherhood, leaders
toppled everywhere with pro-terrorists taking their place. Obama's the best
thing that ever happened to terrorists!

RogerN
---
The science to which I pinned my faith is bankrupt. Its counsels, which
should have established the millennium, have led directly to the suicide of
Europe. I believed them once. In their name I helped to destroy the faith of
millions of worshipers in the temples of a thousand creeds, and now they
look at me and witness the great tragedy of an atheist who has lost his
faith.
George Bernard Shaw

[Fred C. Dobbs]

On 12/25/2012 3:26 AM, RogerN wrote:

> "a friend" wrote in message news:kbbf74$dm3$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>> On 12/24/2012 4:38 PM, RogerN wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> So the teachers at Newtown school were allowed to have guns?
>>>
>> I guess firefighters need armed guards also? they can't shoot back while
>> holding a hose. I guess you NRA idiots want us tax payers to pay for an
>> armed guard every 10 feet across the nation - we can't afford teachers or
>> road repair, how the heck will we pay for the police state you envision?
>> how many billions per year for the 100 million armed guards? I'm sick and
>> tired of being handed the bill for your hobbies.
>>
>
> When the immoral people of the USA elect an immoral president and immoral
> politicians, you can expect crime to go up and the suggested solutions to be
> stupid. Elections have consequences. Heading for fiscal cliff, commander
> and chief on vacation yet again. Chicago is an example of the failure of
> gun control, also notice the voted for Obama. I'd guess 75% or more of the
> crazy shootings come from areas that voted for Obama. The immoral vote for
> Obama, did you notice the Democrats left GOD out of their platform until it
> was noticed, then they stuck GOD back in at the boo's of the immoral Obama
> supporters.
>
> Bottom line, to shoot at firemen or school children is a symptom of
> immorality which is a symptom of the Democratic party.

Oh, fuck off. Adam Lanza was not a "symptom" of the Democratic party,
you stupid fuckwit. He quite obviously was severely mentally ill - not
"crazy" in the sense of being incapacitated, because he obviously had
the capacity to plan and act purposefully. But to say he shot up the
school because of his or anyone else's "immorality", particularly the
absurd notion that a political party is a moral entity and can be said
to be "immoral", calls your own mental health into question.


--
Any more lip out of you and I'll haul off and let you have it...if you
know what's good for you, you won't monkey around with Fred C. Dobbs.

[Gunner]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:51:15 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Ayup. Shooting a coyote in the head at 75 yrd with a handgun is dead
easy.

[Gunner]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 11:08:54 -0800, a friend
<afr...@wonderfulfriendshipisgood.com> wrote:

>>
>> Bottom line, to shoot at firemen or school children is a symptom of
>> immorality which is a symptom of the Democratic party. Both parties are
>> immoral but Democrats make immorality their party platform... abortion,
>> illegal drugs being legalized, gay marriage, taking money away from people
>> that earn it and give it to people that are able but refuse to work, being
>> sworn in to uphold the constitution and then doing the opposite, ....
>>
>
>Oh, you must be so right with that brilliant insight - how about armed
>guards to shoot at immoral people. They will know that they are immoral
>people because they won't be armed guards themselves
>
>sadly, your lovely republicans have practiced immorality and ingrained
>it into our society - steal from the poor and give to the rich, murder
>innocents, eliminate legal protections and use the death penalty against
>those who are different

Oh..Republicans killed all those children at Waco?

Fascinating

[RogerN]

"Fred C. Dobbs" wrote in message
news:XK6dnTevn-0TgEfN...@giganews.com...

>On 12/25/2012 3:26 AM, RogerN wrote:

><snip>

>> Bottom line, to shoot at firemen or school children is a symptom of
>> immorality which is a symptom of the Democratic party.
>
>Oh, fuck off. Adam Lanza was not a "symptom" of the Democratic party, you
>stupid fuckwit. He quite obviously was severely mentally ill - not "crazy"
>in the sense of being incapacitated, because he obviously had the capacity
>to plan and act purposefully. But to say he shot up the school because of
>his or anyone else's "immorality", particularly the absurd notion that a
>political party is a moral entity and can be said to be "immoral", calls
>your own mental health into question.

I wasn't referring to Adam Lanza specifically, just the entire shift of the
general population toward immorality. Murders begin with a desire to commit
the murder and progress into actually carrying out the murder. Adam Lanza
wasn't permitted to have "Thou Shall Not Kill" posted in his school because
the left wingers are afraid that people like him might read it and obey it.
So as morality becomes outdated and immorality becomes the thing, murders
are portrayed more in our movies and video games. Once upon a time a person
that cheats on their spouse was looked down on, now it's acceptable. Once
upon a time, sexual perversion was looked down on, now it's acceptable.
People knew about Bill Clintons womanizing but they voted for him anyway
because they are as immoral as him. Same for Obama, people don't care that
he spends money like a college kid with a rich dad's credit card, they don't
care that he thinks people should have the right to kill 4,615 per work day
but if 20 get killed every great once in a while, people need their rights
taken away. Get it? Over 4000 deaths a day by abortion, no problem, 20
deaths once in a while by a gun is unacceptable. Over 4000 deaths a day,
don't mess with a woman's right to choose to kill, 20 deaths once in a
while, take away people's gun rights. That's how a left winger thinks, a
huge problem is OK, a relatively very minor problem is not OK. We can agree
that 20 deaths is a problem but not if thousands of deaths is not a problem.

And get this, according to the left wingers, if a woman has an abortion, she
hasn't killed a person. If, however, someone kills a pregnant woman, they
are guilty of killing 2 people, the unborn baby becomes a person all of a
sudden.

I do agree though that Adam Lanza's ability to think and reason made him
smarter than a normal left winger, too bad he used this ability to harm
instead of do good.

RogerN

[Fred C. Dobbs]

Bullshit. You've never done it. You couldn't hit an elephant in the
head at 75 yards with a handgun, you fucking liar.

[jon_banquer]

On Dec 25, 3:13 pm, "Fred C. Dobbs" <treas...@sierramadre.con> wrote:
> On 12/25/2012 3:04 PM, Gunner wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> > On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:51:15 +0700, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com>

> > wrote:
>
> >> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 21:27:47 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"

> >> <precisionmachinist...@notmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> "J. Clarke" <jclarkeuse...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:MPG.2b42c6025...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...
> >>>> In article <xoidnYPW_Y9TL0XNnZ2dnUVZ_rCdn...@scnresearch.com>,
> >>>> precisionmachinist...@notmail.com says...
>
> >>>>> "J. Clarke" <jclarkeuse...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:MPG.2b426e1b9...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...
> >>>>>> In article <HYCdnXkzC7EBCUXNnZ2dnUVZ_i2dn...@scnresearch.com>,
> >>>>>> precisionmachinist...@notmail.com says...

>
> >>>>>>> "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:kb9p3b$p5k$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>>>>>>>http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323
>

> >>>>>>>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_234...

You're an expert on never done it and can't do it, Brain Dead Fred.
It's why you can't and won't post your LinkedIn profile.

[F.K.]

Just out of idle curiosity, how would you know? You follow Gunner
around and watch him?

Or maybe you are just a bull-shitter?

[Gunner]

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:43:04 +0700, F.K. <foolki...@gmail.com>

He is more than welcome to come out and we can go call some coyotes
in. What...$500 each , head shots only?

Should I use the TC in 357 Herrit and the 4x scope, or a plain jain 6"
Security Six with open sights?

Or the 38/44 Outdoorsman in 38 Special?

Or if he wants me to work really hard...one of the 1911s in 45acp?

It will only cost him $500 for each one I drop

My time is precious..let him pay for it.

Gunner

[Fred C. Dobbs]

gummer regularly tells whoppers - complete bullshit.

[jon_banquer]

On Dec 25, 9:46 pm, "Fred C. Dobbs" <treas...@sierramadre.con> wrote:
> On 12/25/2012 6:43 PM, F.K. wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 15:13:04 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"
> > <treas...@sierramadre.con> wrote:
>
> >> On 12/25/2012 3:04 PM, Gunner wrote:

> >>> On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:51:15 +0700, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com>

> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 21:27:47 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"

> >>>> <precisionmachinist...@notmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> "J. Clarke" <jclarkeuse...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:MPG.2b42c6025...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...

> >>>>>> In article <xoidnYPW_Y9TL0XNnZ2dnUVZ_rCdn...@scnresearch.com>,
> >>>>>> precisionmachinist...@notmail.com says...
>

> >>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <jclarkeuse...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:MPG.2b426e1b9...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...
> >>>>>>>> In article <HYCdnXkzC7EBCUXNnZ2dnUVZ_i2dn...@scnresearch.com>,
> >>>>>>>> precisionmachinist...@notmail.com says...

>
> >>>>>>>>> "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>news:kb9p3b$p5k$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>>>>>>>>>http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323
>

> >>>>>>>>>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_234...

Fred C. Dobbs regularly lies and regurgitates bullshit he's found on
the net without ever knowing it's true or not. He also posts under
many aliases.

[RogerN]

"a friend" william...@msn.com wrote:
>On 12/25/2012 1:35 PM, RogerN wrote:
> "a friend" wrote in message news:kbctk6$6vh$1...@dont-email.me...
<snip>

>
> So you are for killing the innocent, 4615 X 5 days a week X 52 weeks a
> year,
> with abortion and are for protecting the guilty that are on death row?
> Death penalty for those who are innocent? Like the unborn? All so the
> immorals can have illicit sex without consequences. Every since Obama's
> apology tour and display of weakness the USA has been under terrorist
> attack. Bush's tough war on terrorism that libtards condemned worked
> well,
> but Obama brought the attacks back, complete with Obama ignoring calls for
> help and then covering it up, trying to blame a video that had nothing to
> do
> with the attacks in Libya. Look how the world has changed since Obama's
> apology tour, Egypt is now controlled by the Muslim brotherhood, leaders
> toppled everywhere with pro-terrorists taking their place. Obama's the
> best
> thing that ever happened to terrorists!
>
> RogerN
> ---

absolutely, if we are to fully implement the conservative agenda, we
should insist that any woman who is not pregnant and is over 9 years old
should be put to death. Any male who is not doing manual labor and is
not carrying a loaded weapon should be put to death. Anyone who shoots
another person is innocent until another shoots him dead. Anyone who
doesn't kneel and pray while holding a gun should be shot, anyone who
doesn't carry a cross engraved on their gun and proclaim the Holy Bullet
is supreme should be put to death

Yes, have it your way, it will be great

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Fred C. Dobbs" <trea...@sierramadre.con> wrote in message
news:JImdncG0_cXWEkfN...@giganews.com...

Pie plate at 60 yards yup yup sure thing gumballs.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"a friend" <afr...@wonderfulfriendshipisgood.com> wrote in message
news:kbbf74$dm3$1...@dont-email.me...

Tax the living bejeezus out of guns, ammunition and reloading supplies.

End of problem.

[pyotr filipivich]

F.K. <foolki...@gmail.com> on Wed, 26 Dec 2012 09:43:04 +0700 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

>
>>> Ayup. Shooting a coyote in the head at 75 yrd with a handgun is dead
>>> easy.
>>
>>Bullshit. You've never done it. You couldn't hit an elephant in the
>>head at 75 yards with a handgun, you fucking liar.
>
>Just out of idle curiosity, how would you know? You follow Gunner
>around and watch him?

He consults his Magic Eight ball. Or CNN - same level of
credibility.

>
>Or maybe you are just a bull-shitter?

--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

[pyotr filipivich]

Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com> on Mon, 24 Dec 2012 12:39:38 -0800 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

>http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/5939904-Citizen-shoots-trailer-park-gunman-saves-Texas-officer/
>
>I thought 'he's fixin' to kill that boy,'" Stacy told the Brownwood
>Bulletin. "And that's why I squared off and hit him in the leg and
>knocked him down."
>
>Police estimate Stacy was about 150 feet away when he fired his .357
>magnum pistol, striking Conner four times. Investigators determined as
>Conner returned fire to Stacy, Means also hit Conner at least twice �
>and a combination of their bullets killed him.
>
>Police praised Stacy for his outstanding shooting in the incident,
>which happened July 29, and willingness to step in to a dangerous
>confrontation.
>
>"The citizen that fired these shots did a tremendous job out there,"
>Brown County Sheriff Bobby Grubbs said. "Had he not had a gun and the
>presence of mind to do this, we don't know what the outcome would've
>been."
>
He might not know, but I do. "Bad."

[John B.]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 21:28:24 -0800, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I used to know a Maine State cop who practiced with his 4" 357. I've
seen him, prone, two hands. hit a 1 gallon oil can 6 out of 6 shots,
at a measured 100 yards.
Sorta makes the "he's out of range" story a bit ridiculous :-)

--
Cheers,
John B.

[F.K.]

On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 21:46:49 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"

I see... Apparently you have met the chap and have verified that he is
telling whoppers?

Or you just think so? Or maybe you are making the whole thing up?

See, the first thing to do when you see some bloke slanging another is
to figure out whether the guy doing the bad-mouthing is telling the
truth or lying.

So in the interest of truth and justice could you tell us the last
time you actually met Gunner and maybe sat around having a beer and
telling war stories?

[Michael A. Terrell]

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> Tax the living bejeezus out of guns, ammunition and reloading supplies.
>
> End of problem.

Yawn. It's idiots like you that are dangerous, not guns, knives or
even rocks.

[Jim Wilkins]

"John B." <johnbs...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7sold8pghiqal8gvh...@4ax.com...

>
> I used to know a Maine State cop who practiced with his 4" 357. I've
> seen him, prone, two hands. hit a 1 gallon oil can 6 out of 6 shots,
> at a measured 100 yards.
> Sorta makes the "he's out of range" story a bit ridiculous :-)
>

> John B.

I had a chance to try an old trooper's .357 on metallic silhouettes
at 100 yards, in front of a sand berm that showed the impact point
clearly. Once I figured how to correct for the ~2' bullet drop it
wasn't too hard to knock them down.

[Gunner]

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:52:36 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>

Out here in the high desert..we dont have much that would be
considered..."cover" So we learn to shoot at some distances.

And of course..I was a AA rated shooter with IHMSA
for a number of years.

http://www.ihmsa.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6xme4axGM8

Thats what I use the 357 Herret for.
Its a 3030 rifle case shortened just a smidge and then opened up to
.357. My 14" TC will launch a 180gr spitzer at 1975fps and knock down
a ram quite nicely. It also takes down boar, deer, coyote etc quite
nicely as well. In my circle..we dont bother to take out a rifle
until the range to ground squirrels gets past 175-200 yrds.

http://www.loaddata.com/images/database/.357%20Herrett4.gif

http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=6421

http://www.handgunhunt.com/tech/t11/index.html

Course I have tried other calibers.. the 7mm TCU was fairly
popular..but it really doesnt have all that much punch..barely enough
to reliably knock down the rams

http://www.loaddata.com/images/database/7mm%20TCU4.gif

http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=4757&caliber=7mm&caliberid=47&header=7mm%20Caliber%20Reloading%20Data

Ive got at least (4) 7mm molds Ive bought over the years to work in
the TCU. Shrug..its an easy case to make and load..but it really
doesnt "do it" for me like the 357 Herret does.

Now Id be happy to take the old boys money any time he would like to
show up. In fact..to sweeten the deal...I suppose I should let him
know Ive not fired at anything over 100 yrds with a handgun in about 5
yrs..least nothing important. Ive devoted most of my shooting to
combat shooting with the .45, the .357 and the .41 Mag in the last
couple years..since I recovered from having my chest split open.

Hell..I didnt even take the 375 H&H out till 2 weeks ago. Felt
wonderful to be shooting it again! Missed it like a girlfriend. My
favorite "utility" cartridge..right up there with the 300 Win Mag and
the 3006

Now we are in the middle of a month long reloading session, since we
spent last month getting the brass squared away. Im gonna run out of
powder before I get it all reloaded though. So Ill need to lay in a
few more 8lb kegs of my favorites.

Anyone got any reloading equipment they dont need anymore? Im kinda
sorta in the market again. More able to swap for whatever you
have..machining Stuff...but got other Stuff for trade as well.

[Gunner]

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:59:11 +0700, F.K. <foolki...@gmail.com>

Or came over and looked at my trophy wall?

I hope he tells us all.

Gunner

[Gunner]

Tis sad to know that so many people are stockpiling arms, ammo and
reloading supplies. When PrecisionUnable;s people show up, they wont
find a damned thing.

As for me..I sold all of my guns and gear at the last gun show.
Nothing left but a couple bb guns and my archery gear.

Ayup.

[Gunner]

Ayup. Anyone can do it, it just takes some practice.

Ever get out my way..Id be happy to work with you and show you a few
tricks

[Michael A. Terrell]

Gunner wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 07:52:37 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
> >>
> >> Tax the living bejeezus out of guns, ammunition and reloading supplies.
> >>
> >> End of problem.
> >
> >
> > Yawn. It's idiots like you that are dangerous, not guns, knives or
> >even rocks.
>
> Tis sad to know that so many people are stockpiling arms, ammo and
> reloading supplies. When PrecisionUnable;s people show up, they wont
> find a damned thing.
>
> As for me..I sold all of my guns and gear at the last gun show.
> Nothing left but a couple bb guns and my archery gear.

All I have left were made by Weller...

[Fred C. Dobbs]

A coyote's head is significantly smaller than a pie plate, and the
distance is 75 yards - 25% farther than 60 yards - and the coyote is moving.

[Fred C. Dobbs]

He has been caught lying dozens of times. I also looked up numerous
references to long-range pistol shooting. Most references I found said
it is not easy to be able to hit, reliably, pie tins at 50 yards. It
can be done, but not easily. A coyote's head is considerably smaller
than the standard pie tin, and the distance - 75 yards - is 50% farther
than 50 yards. The coyote does not stand still for long.

gummer is lying.

[whoyakidding]

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:59:11 +0700, F.K. <foolki...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>See, the first thing to do when you see some bloke slanging another is
>to figure out whether the guy doing the bad-mouthing is telling the
>truth or lying.

You can make some safe assumptions about the veracity of any Gunner
fable based on the sheer number of piles of his previous horseshit.
For example, one of my favorites is his claim to have ridden a
borrowed Kawasaki Ninja 264 mph. The slightest amount of research
would tell you that's a crazy lie. Or if you prefer something that's
documentable, you could compare his story about living on several
acres
http://groups.google.com/group/misc.survivalism/msg/3d5d25863209cdc3
to his property records
http://www.recorder.co.kern.ca.us/propertysearch/propertydetails.php?srctext=03946026002&direction=N&srctype=atn&teno=
Or you could use some common sense and ask yourself how someone with
so many skills and record setting accomplishments could have
accumulated this record of DECADES of liens.
http://tinyurl.com/cboh7m6 Or consider that despite threatening libel
suits against his detractors regularly over the years, he has yet to
do anything more than continually threaten them with death. Speaking
of which, he predicted my death by the end of this year FOR SURE.
Check back in 5 days if you think there's any doubt which way that one
will go.

Considering the history, only an idiot would take anything Gunner says
at face value. Even the most gullible of idiots, of which there are
many posting here, tend to lay very low when it comes time to defend
Gunner's horseshit, and I think it's safe to say that he's the most
prolific and well documented liar on Usenet. Feel free to put up the
name of anyone who can top him. I'd enjoy putting his lies toe to toe
with another's if there's anyone in his league.

[Fred C. Dobbs]

The overwhelming majority even of people here who agree politically with
gummer nonetheless think his self-aggrandizing yarns are comical bullshit.

[J. Clarke]

In article <l_2dnUMAUoohC0fN...@scnresearch.com>,
precisionm...@notmail.com says...

Yeah, the liberal solution to all problems--paperwork and taxes.

[jim]

"F.K." wrote:

> See, the first thing to do when you see some bloke slanging another is
> to figure out whether the guy doing the bad-mouthing is telling the
> truth or lying.
>
> So in the interest of truth and justice could you tell us the last
> time you actually met Gunner and maybe sat around having a beer and
> telling war stories?

Could you please quantify how many beers it takes
to make it believable?

just curious.....

[Gunner]

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:35:05 -0600, jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m...@mwt.net>
wrote:

Your more than welcome to come shooting with me Jim.

Just give me a couple days notice.

[RogerN]

"PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
news:l_2dnUMAUoohC0fN...@scnresearch.com...
>
<snip>

>> I guess firefighters need armed guards also? they can't shoot back while
>> holding a hose. I guess you NRA idiots want us tax payers to pay for an
>> armed guard every 10 feet across the nation - we can't afford teachers or
>> road repair, how the heck will we pay for the police state you envision?
>> how many billions per year for the 100 million armed guards? I'm sick
>> and tired of being handed the bill for your hobbies.
>>
>
>Tax the living bejeezus out of guns, ammunition and reloading supplies.
>
>End of problem.

Tax guns & supplies proportionately for the deaths they cause and tax
liberals according to the deaths they cause starting with 1.2 million
abortions per year. For every $1 taxed on guns, $400 will be taxed to
liberals.

Gives Obama some spending money from his supporters!

[Stormin Mormon]

Does that make you a sniper?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kbf1tm$3km$1...@dont-email.me...

[Stormin Mormon]

Worked for NYC, LA, and Wash DC, so far?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.2b44eb0ea...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...

[pyotr filipivich]

Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com> on Wed, 26 Dec 2012 06:44:09 -0800 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

>On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 07:52:37 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
><mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>>> Tax the living bejeezus out of guns, ammunition and reloading supplies.
>>>
>>> End of problem.

For the law abiding. Too bad for him, reality is not at all
like his fantasy world.

>>
>> Yawn. It's idiots like you that are dangerous, not guns, knives or
>>even rocks.
>
>Tis sad to know that so many people are stockpiling arms, ammo and
>reloading supplies. When PrecisionUnable;s people show up, they wont
>find a damned thing.
>
>As for me..I sold all of my guns and gear at the last gun show.

I have the police report on file. Bummer.

>Nothing left but a couple bb guns and my archery gear.

Have you seen the video on the rediscovery of the techniques of
"ancient" speed archery? Eleven arrows in the air before the first
one hits - beats Hiawatha by one. Seven arrows in less time than
Legolas shot six. Running backwards and hitting three thrown discs
before they hit the ground.
Yeah, those old guys really could shoot that way - including
putting two shafts where the sun don't shine in some one foolish
enough to moon a Welsh bowman.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote in message news:MPG.2b44eb0ea...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...

> Yeah, the liberal solution to all problems.

Non-gun owners ( liberal or otherwise ) aren't the ones doing the shootings....

IF YOU wanna play, then YOU gotta pay...

> --paperwork and taxes.

Move somewhere else, you whiney little bitch.

[jim]

Gunner wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:35:05 -0600, jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m...@mwt.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >"F.K." wrote:
> >
> >> See, the first thing to do when you see some bloke slanging another is
> >> to figure out whether the guy doing the bad-mouthing is telling the
> >> truth or lying.
> >>
> >> So in the interest of truth and justice could you tell us the last
> >> time you actually met Gunner and maybe sat around having a beer and
> >> telling war stories?
> >
> >Could you please quantify how many beers it takes
> >to make it believable?
> >
> >just curious.....
>
> Your more than welcome to come shooting with me Jim.
>
> Just give me a couple days notice.

Thanks for the invite and I would if I were in
the neighborhood.
But, that didn't exactly help with understanding
how sitting around and drinking beer helps
one to believe.

[Fred C. Dobbs]

On 12/26/2012 6:44 AM, Gunner wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 07:52:37 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>>>
>>> Tax the living bejeezus out of guns, ammunition and reloading supplies.
>>>
>>> End of problem.
>>
>>
>> Yawn. It's idiots like you that are dangerous, not guns, knives or
>> even rocks.
>
> Tis sad to know that so many people are stockpiling arms, ammo and
> reloading supplies. When PrecisionUnable;s people show up, they wont
> find a damned thing.
>
> As for me..I sold all of my guns and gear at the last gun show.
> Nothing left but a couple bb guns and my archery gear.

Is that right? Then why did you just invite "jim" to come shoot with you?

Your [sic] more than welcome to come shooting with me Jim.

Just give me a couple days notice.

gummer dwieber - 12/26/12, 8:47am


What are the couple of days for, gummer - to go get one of your popguns
out of hock?

You aren't trying to say you can hit a coyote in the head at 75 yards
with a BB gun or an arrow, are you, gummer?

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote in message news:h-udnUPF7vKgsEbN...@earthlink.com...

> "PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
> news:l_2dnUMAUoohC0fN...@scnresearch.com...
>>
> <snip>
>>> I guess firefighters need armed guards also? they can't shoot back while
>>> holding a hose. I guess you NRA idiots want us tax payers to pay for an
>>> armed guard every 10 feet across the nation - we can't afford teachers or
>>> road repair, how the heck will we pay for the police state you envision?
>>> how many billions per year for the 100 million armed guards? I'm sick
>>> and tired of being handed the bill for your hobbies.
>>>
>>
>>Tax the living bejeezus out of guns, ammunition and reloading supplies.
>>
>>End of problem.
>
> Tax guns & supplies proportionately for the deaths they cause and tax
> liberals

Newsflash:

Conservatives have plenty of abortions, too....

> according to the deaths they cause starting with 1.2 million
> abortions per year.

And then there's your incessant whining about having had to pay child support..

> For every $1 taxed on guns, $400 will be taxed to
> liberals.
>

You really ought to back off on the fruitcake, Roger.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Fred C. Dobbs" <trea...@sierramadre.con> wrote in message news:Yq-dnSXSatIY3UbN...@giganews.com...

> On 12/26/2012 6:44 AM, Gunner wrote:
>> On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 07:52:37 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tax the living bejeezus out of guns, ammunition and reloading supplies.
>>>>
>>>> End of problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yawn. It's idiots like you that are dangerous, not guns, knives or
>>> even rocks.
>>
>> Tis sad to know that so many people are stockpiling arms, ammo and
>> reloading supplies. When PrecisionUnable;s people show up, they wont
>> find a damned thing.
>>
>> As for me..I sold all of my guns and gear at the last gun show.
>> Nothing left but a couple bb guns and my archery gear.
>
> Is that right? Then why did you just invite "jim" to come shoot with you?
>
> Your [sic] more than welcome to come shooting with me Jim.
>
> Just give me a couple days notice.
>
> gummer dwieber - 12/26/12, 8:47am
>
>
> What are the couple of days for, gummer - to go get one of your popguns
> out of hock?
>
> You aren't trying to say you can hit a coyote in the head at 75 yards
> with a BB gun or an arrow, are you, gummer?
>
>

The average pistol shooter would be indeed fortunate to hit the whole target five times out of twenty. Forget the bullseye.

[Fred C. Dobbs]

I doubt gummer could hit a coyote-sized target half the time at 75
yards, let alone just the head. But it is impossible for him to do it
without any guns.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"F.K." <foolki...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:juokd8lio2ig1n38o...@4ax.com...

> On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 15:13:04 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"
> <trea...@sierramadre.con> wrote:
>
>>On 12/25/2012 3:04 PM, Gunner wrote:
>>> On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:51:15 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 21:27:47 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"
>>>> <precisionm...@notmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>

>>>>> "J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote in message

>>>>> news:MPG.2b42c6025...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...
>>>>>> In article <xoidnYPW_Y9TL0XN...@scnresearch.com>,
>>>>>> precisionm...@notmail.com says...
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote in message

A competition bullseye shooter is NOT the same as "the average pistol shooter", you fucking numbskull.

>>>> of his shots in that circle. 50 yards is 20% further so at 60 yards a
>>>> target that is about 4 inches would be the equivalent size.
>>>
>>> Ayup. Shooting a coyote in the head at 75 yrd with a handgun is dead
>>> easy.
>>
>>Bullshit. You've never done it. You couldn't hit an elephant in the
>>head at 75 yards with a handgun, you fucking liar.
>
> Just out of idle curiosity, how would you know? You follow Gunner
> around and watch him?
>

> Or maybe you are just a bull-shitter?

I'm 54 years old, and I've been shooting guns pretty much all my life...notably, during Air Force basic training, I was selected for the sharpshooter program, although I declined the offer.

I regularily target practice at a private range on my own property, oftentimes with friends, relatives and their guests many of whom bring along a wide variety of different firearms and so I've got a pretty good handle on how accurately your "average pistol shooter" can hit a target using a handgun or pretty much anything else.

Got any more stupid questions then feel free...

[Fred C. Dobbs]

Just out of curiosity, how many hits on a pie tin at 75 yards do you
think you might get? I haven't shot guns much, and I think if I were to
go out and try it now, I'd be lucky to hit it at all. In fact, there's
a chain fence around a school playground that I can see from my house.
The children have put some kind of leaping fish they made in art class
into the chain link, and some of them are considerably wider than a
coyote head, but not as tall. I haven't gone out and paced it off, but
it looks to be about 50 to 60 yards away. I'd be damned surprised if I
could hit one of those fish more than twice if I went through two
10-round magazines...in other words, it would basically be an accident
if I hit it. That's not to say that someone couldn't hit it more often,
but it sure wouldn't be <chuckle> "dead easy."

I imagine if gummer was sitting at a bench and the coyote wasn't moving,
he might be able to hit something the size of its head a time or two...

[Transition Zone]

On Dec 26, 2:59 pm, "PrecisionmachinisT" <123machin...@notmail.com>
wrote:
> "F.K." <foolkille...@gmail.com> wrote in messagenews:juokd8lio2ig1n38o...@4ax.com...

> > On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 15:13:04 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"
> > <treas...@sierramadre.con> wrote:
>
> >>On 12/25/2012 3:04 PM, Gunner wrote:

> >>> On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 18:51:15 +0700, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com>

> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> On Mon, 24 Dec 2012 21:27:47 -0800, "PrecisionmachinisT"

> >>>> <precisionmachinist...@notmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> "J. Clarke" <jclarkeuse...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:MPG.2b42c6025...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...
> >>>>>> In article <xoidnYPW_Y9TL0XNnZ2dnUVZ_rCdn...@scnresearch.com>,
> >>>>>> precisionmachinist...@notmail.com says...
>
> >>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <jclarkeuse...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:MPG.2b426e1b9...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...
> >>>>>>>> In article <HYCdnXkzC7EBCUXNnZ2dnUVZ_i2dn...@scnresearch.com>,
> >>>>>>>> precisionmachinist...@notmail.com says...

>
> >>>>>>>>> "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>news:kb9p3b$p5k$1...@dont-email.me...
> >>>>>>>>>>http://articles.latimes.com/2000/apr/16/news/mn-20323
>

> >>>>>>>>>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/columbine-armed-guards_n_234...

Sure. Ever missed anything four times?

(the Columbine sheriff deputy did)

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Fred C. Dobbs" <trea...@sierramadre.con> wrote in message news:laadnTqnWdrjx0bN...@giganews.com...

>
> Just out of curiosity, how many hits on a pie tin at 75 yards do you
> think you might get?

That is nearly a footbal field...so... guessing 1 in 15 perhaps, probably less.

A waste of ammo for most, not much fun in only hitting your target on a blue moon

> I haven't shot guns much, and I think if I were to
> go out and try it now, I'd be lucky to hit it at all. In fact, there's
> a chain fence around a school playground that I can see from my house.
> The children have put some kind of leaping fish they made in art class
> into the chain link, and some of them are considerably wider than a
> coyote head, but not as tall. I haven't gone out and paced it off, but
> it looks to be about 50 to 60 yards away. I'd be damned surprised if I
> could hit one of those fish more than twice if I went through two

For most shooters, hitting beer bottles with a pistol starts getting fairly difficult at about 20 yards...

--given six rounds, and a row of ten bottles spaced a couple of inches apart, many folks won't hit even one although occasionally someone might knock off two of them.

> 10-round magazines...in other words, it would basically be an accident
> if I hit it. That's not to say that someone couldn't hit it more often,
> but it sure wouldn't be <chuckle> "dead easy."
>
> I imagine if gummer was sitting at a bench and the coyote wasn't moving,
> he might be able to hit something the size of its head a time or two...
>

Didn't he just tell someone that he's sold his guns ?

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"Transition Zone" <mog...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:885f0f97-9eb0-4392...@z2g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...

> >I regularily target practice at a private range on my own property,
oftentimes with friends, relatives and their guests many of whom bring
along a wide variety of different firearms
> > and so I've got a pretty good handle on how accurately your "average pistol shooter" can hit a target using a handgun or pretty much anything else.
>
> > Got any more stupid questions then feel free...

> Sure. Ever missed anything four times?

To be fair, at that distance, he didn't have a shot.

My personal opinion is that he proved himself a coward by not closing the distance before shooting his wad.....

It was, after all, his duty.

[Fred C. Dobbs]

He did post that this morning - not long after inviting someone named
"jim" to look him up and go shooting with him.

>
>> Any more lip out of you and I'll haul off and let you have it...if you
>> know what's good for you, you won't monkey around with Fred C. Dobbs.

--

[whoyakidding]

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 13:42:49 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"
<trea...@sierramadre.con> wrote:

>On 12/26/2012 12:58 PM, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>>
>> "Fred C. Dobbs" <trea...@sierramadre.con> wrote in message news:laadnTqnWdrjx0bN...@giganews.com...

>> Didn't he just tell someone that he's sold his guns ?
>
>He did post that this morning - not long after inviting someone named
>"jim" to look him up and go shooting with him.

As I recall he once said he'd sold all his guns and a bunch of other
stuff to his father. He probably makes the same claim any time his
creditors start closing in.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"John B." <johnbs...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:7sold8pghiqal8gvh...@4ax.com...
>
> I used to know a Maine State cop who practiced with his 4" 357. I've
> seen him, prone, two hands. hit a 1 gallon oil can 6 out of 6 shots,
> at a measured 100 yards.
> Sorta makes the "he's out of range" story a bit ridiculous :-)
>

I used to know a guy that had a spaceship and he regularily took his vacations on the planet Zork.

[Gunner]

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 10:09:14 -0800, pyotr filipivich
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>>find a damned thing.
>>
>>As for me..I sold all of my guns and gear at the last gun show.
>
> I have the police report on file. Bummer.
>
>>Nothing left but a couple bb guns and my archery gear.
>
> Have you seen the video on the rediscovery of the techniques of
>"ancient" speed archery? Eleven arrows in the air before the first
>one hits - beats Hiawatha by one. Seven arrows in less time than
>Legolas shot six. Running backwards and hitting three thrown discs
>before they hit the ground.
> Yeah, those old guys really could shoot that way - including
>putting two shafts where the sun don't shine in some one foolish
>enough to moon a Welsh bowman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=AL1W3HkjJ2Y&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvd3Z-LQoag

Long long history of such...millenia

[Gunner]

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 12:17:36 -0600, jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m...@mwt.net>

1. I dont drink
2. I dont lie

I do however love pissing off leftwingers

You are more than welcome to come verify this.

Oh..check your email..assuming Ive got it properly unmunged

[Gunner]

Shrug..quite frankly..most cops cant shoot for shit. There are some
who are fans of shooting..and they can shoot well enough..but for most
cops..its simply a tool to be used half assed.

Civilian shooters tend to be an order of magnitude better than cops
with guns. This of course does not include Leftwinger criminals. They
cant shoot for shit at all. Which is why they generally use shotguns
or cheap handguns and up close and personal.

http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/63perilo.htm

"A second argument Dixon offers in support of a comprehensive police
exemption is that "[s]ince they are subject to extensive training and
strict discipline, police are less likely to abuse handguns than the
private citizen ..." [3] The empirical evidence, however, suggests
that police misuse of firearms is quite common. [4] Whenever a New
York City police officer fires a gun (outside of a target range),
police officials review the incident. About 20% of discharges have
been determined to be accidental, and another 10% to be intentional
discharges in violation of force policy. In other words, only 70% of
firearms discharges by police are intentional and in compliance with
force policy. [5] According to another study, when police *289 shoot
at criminals, they are 5.5 times more likely to hit an innocent person
than are civilian shooters. [6]

An interesting gun site ...by lawyers, scientists and other evil
people
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com

And for you people who live out east....

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/12/foghorn/help-needed-ttag-to-conduct-simulated-school-shooting/#more-182665

[John B.]

It's not? Ah... I see now, you are talking about the guys that post
the films entitled "watch me shoot my gun" on the web...

Probably the decline in masculinity in the U.S. population - "Ohoooo,
I'm so afraid of guns... Ohooo they are so dangerous..."

The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire should be
required reading in American schools. Good story, demonstrates what
happens to a nation that suffers a loss of civic virtue among its
citizens, becomes effeminate and outsourcing their duties to defend
their Empire to others.

But, I'm sure that you would disagree with my thesis.... after all you
are one of the effeminate, aren't you.

>>>>> of his shots in that circle. 50 yards is 20% further so at 60 yards a
>>>>> target that is about 4 inches would be the equivalent size.
>>>>
>>>> Ayup. Shooting a coyote in the head at 75 yrd with a handgun is dead
>>>> easy.
>>>
>>>Bullshit. You've never done it. You couldn't hit an elephant in the
>>>head at 75 yards with a handgun, you fucking liar.
>>
>> Just out of idle curiosity, how would you know? You follow Gunner
>> around and watch him?
>>
>> Or maybe you are just a bull-shitter?
>
>I'm 54 years old, and I've been shooting guns pretty much all my life...notably, during Air Force basic training, I was selected for the sharpshooter program, although I declined the offer.

What in the world is a "sharpshooter program"? I spent 20 years in the
A.F. and never heard of such a thing.

>
>I regularily target practice at a private range on my own property, oftentimes with friends, relatives and their guests many of whom bring along a wide variety of different firearms and so I've got a pretty good handle on how accurately your "average pistol shooter" can hit a target using a handgun or pretty much anything else.
>

In other you and another bunch of untrained, lazy (too lazy to
practice) and awkward individuals cannot shoot straight so you assume
that as you, being the fine example of American manhood that you
believe you are, cannot do something, that you are average?

--
Cheers,
John B.

[John B.]

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 12:13:47 -0800, "Fred C. Dobbs"

Depends on how big a pie tin it is. You see, pie tins come in a number
of sizes. (you can read about this on the Web)

> I haven't shot guns much, and I think if I were to
>go out and try it now, I'd be lucky to hit it at all. In fact, there's

I understand now, you think that you are endowed with the ability to
shoot straight? Just like you can fly a jet airplane, or even drive a
nail straight.

Generally speaking, one needs to do a little practicing and gain a
little experience before expounding on a subject, although I must say
that you appear to orate without any knowledge....

By the way, Fred C. Dobbs is the guy that gets killed over the bags of
dirt, isn't he?

--
Cheers,
John B.

[John B.]

Your response demonstrates your ignorance of the subject.
--
Cheers,
John B.

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"John B." <johnbs...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:d0and858tr1ehpntn...@4ax.com...

No, I'm talking about the "average pistol shooter" you slobbering fool

I've got no doubt whatsoever tham I'm better than the "average pistol
shooter".

> being the fine example of American manhood that you

Let me guess, you've got a small dick, no ?

> believe you are, cannot do something, that you are average?
>

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare

[PrecisionmachinisT]

"J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:MPG.2b43720ce...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...
> In article <sN2dnWA9tt-soETN...@scnresearch.com>,
> precisionm...@notmail.com says...

>>
>> "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote in message

>> news:n4KdndHbrM86aEXN...@earthlink.com...
>> > "PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
>> > news:7s2dnU3Zotu3cEXN...@scnresearch.com...

>> >
>> >>"RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote in message

>> >>news:cZCdnXbnO7ALeUXN...@earthlink.com...
>> > <snip>
>> >>> True, how about concealed carry? That way people employed as
>> >>> teachers
>> >>> can
>> >>> defend themselves and the children. Some might get killed, but I'd
>> >>> rather
>> >>
>> >>Sorry but I don't happen percieve that there's been an escalation in
>> >>anti-concealed-carry sentiment in the general public as a result of the
>> >>Newtown shootings.
>> >>
>> >>Probably it's those voices in your head, as per the usual...
>> >
>> > So the teachers at Newtown school were allowed to have guns?
>> >
>>

>> You are conflating right to concealed carry with some ill concieved
>> policy
>> that oulaws firearms outright in certain areas, without having armed
>> personnel to insure compliance...and then actring as though you have some
>> preconcieved motion that I would somehow be supportive of such policy.
>>
>> Mighty presumptuous on your part, do you habitually preach to the choir ?
>>
>> --The school staff knew full in advance the hazards, if they don't wish
>> to
>> work under such restrictions then they were perfectly free to find work
>> elsewhere.
>
> The school staff might have been, but did the kids have the same choice?

Kindergartners should be allowed to bring guns to school ?

[Gunner]

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 09:40:35 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>

Some of the best shooters Ive taught, were female. My pride and joy is
a girl who was born deaf. Muzzle blast never bothered her in the
slightest. She went from a 22lr to a 44 magnum in 2 sessions at the
range. She has a number of trophies on her wall ..though I
understand that she got married and now has a mess of kids.

[Michael A. Terrell]

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> Let me guess, you've got a small dick, no ?

Why would you even ask a question like that?

[Michael A. Terrell]

PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>
> Kindergartners should be allowed to bring guns to school ?

If they are trained in gun saftey, and you or some other creep are
within five miles? YES.

[Steve W.]

Gunner wrote:

> Shrug..quite frankly..most cops cant shoot for shit. There are some
> who are fans of shooting..and they can shoot well enough..but for most
> cops..its simply a tool to be used half assed.

I questioned this for a while, then I visited a local police range
during qualifications....
I would be surprised if some of them could hit the inside of the range
from the shooting line.....

Had my normal carry with me so I put a few rounds downrange. Standard
double tap drill on the first mag
That alone shocked the officers. Then I ran failure drills the second run.
They REALLY looked when the target came up thinking that you couldn't
hit accurately at that speed.

Only had one that hit a non-vitals area (high right into shoulder blade)
others were on target.

--
Steve W.

[J. Clarke]

In article <9uCdnUQu2tWnIUbN...@scnresearch.com>,
precisionm...@notmail.com says...

What a bizarre response. Seriously you either have major reading
comprehension problems or something wrong in your head. You should
figure out which and get it addressed.

[J. Clarke]

In article <HI-dnfGYUsOuokbN...@scnresearch.com>,
123mac...@notmail.com says...
>
> "J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote in message news:MPG.2b44eb0ea...@hamster.jcbsbsdomain.local...
> > In article <l_2dnUMAUoohC0fN...@scnresearch.com>,
> > precisionm...@notmail.com says...
> >>
> >> "a friend" <afr...@wonderfulfriendshipisgood.com> wrote in message
> >> news:kbbf74$dm3$1...@dont-email.me...

> >> > On 12/24/2012 4:38 PM, RogerN wrote:
> >> >> "PrecisionmachinisT" wrote in message
> >> >> news:7s2dnU3Zotu3cEXN...@scnresearch.com...
> >> >>
> >> >>> "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote in message
> >> >>> news:cZCdnXbnO7ALeUXN...@earthlink.com...
> >> >> <snip>
> >> >>>> True, how about concealed carry? That way people employed as teachers
> >> >>>> can
> >> >>>> defend themselves and the children. Some might get killed, but I'd
> >> >>>> rather
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sorry but I don't happen percieve that there's been an escalation in
> >> >>> anti-concealed-carry sentiment in the general public as a result of the
> >> >>> Newtown shootings.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Probably it's those voices in your head, as per the usual...
> >> >>
> >> >> So the teachers at Newtown school were allowed to have guns?
> >> >>

> >> > I guess firefighters need armed guards also? they can't shoot back while
> >> > holding a hose. I guess you NRA idiots want us tax payers to pay for an
> >> > armed guard every 10 feet across the nation - we can't afford teachers or
> >> > road repair, how the heck will we pay for the police state you envision?
> >> > how many billions per year for the 100 million armed guards? I'm sick and
> >> > tired of being handed the bill for your hobbies.
> >> >
> >>

> >> Tax the living bejeezus out of guns, ammunition and reloading supplies.
> >

> > Yeah, the liberal solution to all problems.
>
> Non-gun owners ( liberal or otherwise ) aren't the ones doing the shootings....
>
> IF YOU wanna play, then YOU gotta pay...
>
> > --paperwork and taxes.
>
> Move somewhere else, you whiney little bitch.

How about we kick out the liberals instead?

[Gunner]

On Wed, 26 Dec 2012 23:00:51 -0500, "Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com>
wrote:

>Gunner wrote:
>
>> Shrug..quite frankly..most cops cant shoot for shit. There are some
>> who are fans of shooting..and they can shoot well enough..but for most
>> cops..its simply a tool to be used half assed.
>
>I questioned this for a while, then I visited a local police range
>during qualifications....
>I would be surprised if some of them could hit the inside of the range
>from the shooting line.....
>
>Had my normal carry with me so I put a few rounds downrange. Standard
>double tap drill on the first mag
>That alone shocked the officers. Then I ran failure drills the second run.
>They REALLY looked when the target came up thinking that you couldn't
>hit accurately at that speed.
>
>Only had one that hit a non-vitals area (high right into shoulder blade)
>others were on target.
>

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/HomeShop?authkey=Gv1sRgCMeUu5PErfKiRA#5773371479312871954

Use the blowup function to examine the target on the wall. 100 rds,
rapid fire, last 20 were in the head at 50 yds Total time for the
head shots. 15 seconds including magazine changes. Thats pretty slow
fire. Shrug

45acp, 220gr SWC, 7.2gr Unique, 1150 FPS. from my daily carry Series
70. About 35 yrs old and has fired about 190,000 rds since I bought it
way way back in the mid 1970s. Its been rebuilt once.

A combination of standing, kneeling, rapid mag changes etc etc. The
running from one end of the range and back and then adressing the
target so soon after my heart surgery caused the fliers out in the 9
ring. Blush... I think there are 4.

That was shot a couple years ago. The first match I ever shot in after
they split me open like a trout.

Other photos....

From a match 3 months before the surgery...if you use the magnifying
glass icon..and blow it up...you will notice that the weapon is in
full ejection mode..slide back, empty case in the air after ejection
and the muzzle has lifted about 1" above line of sight in recoil. Its
about to slide forward again and load another round into the chamber.

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/Shooting#5826519618478358994

5 shots, 5 seperate targets, .51 seconds total. Not my best time..but
not bad for an old guy whose ticker was plugged up.

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/Shooting#5826523961170575714

One of our regular posters is also in that series of photos. A very
nice guy btw. IRRC..he took the photos of me, and I of him. He used
one of my pistols as his had a failure early on.

He shot in the novice class, they put me in the professional class
with the cops and military for some reason. I took first place. Some
stiff competition..and some guys who should have been in Novice class.
Shrug. Most of them..were cops. One FBI guy wasnt half bad, but was
about 10 pts behind me.

If you notice in the photos..guys are standing behind the shooters.
They are operating a "shooting timer". It sounds "beeb beeb beeb
BEEEP" and starts the clock function. A microphone counts the shots
and ends at the last round fired. Tells total time, and time between
shots. So the score at each stage is based on speed and accuracy.
Miss one..they deduct points. In my class..a lot of points. So shoot
to hit, as fast as you can.


I hate looking at those photos..thats the heaviest Ive ever been in my
life....gaaaack!!

Way too much Monster Green in those days. All that surgar
https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/Shooting#5826528350965724658

However....I needed the energy just to keep going each day..those
arteries were plugged solid by November.

All better now! Yippee!!!

Oh..I do other kinds of shooting too...

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/Shooting#5826534252618837570

[Gunner]

Who was he asking that question about? The miserable bastard is in
my killfile and has been for years. I never see his spew unless its
quoted in someone elses postings.

[Gunner]

I taught my kids gun safety at a very early age

https://picasaweb.google.com/104042282269066802602/OldPhotos#5555293031747478482

When they live in a house filled with them..they have to know what not
to touch..and how to touch safely. They all grew up owning firearms
and knowing how to use them. My grand daughter will be getting her
first rifle this summer. She will be 8.

Her father, is the kid Im teaching in the photo. He is now 36.

[Fred C. Dobbs]

Check the size of his pick-em-up truck or SUV - especially the wheels.
The bigger any of 'em are, the smaller his little shriveled dick. That
might seem like only a snide comment, but actually it's a documented
medical fact. Guys - *fake* guys - who drive giant 4WD pick-em-up
trucks with huge wheels and tires have no dicks at all. That's a fact.

[John B.]

I don't think I've ever met such a critter. The pistol shooters I've
known all seemed to be reasonably accurate. Of course you are likely
talking about Mr. Average American - terrified of guns. Amazing really
that he knows which end is which.

Back when I was living in the U.S. the "average pistol shooter" that I
knew could hit a 3.3" target at 50 yards at least 80% of the time. And
that was the "average" pistol shooter. The "good" ones could hit that
3.3" spot damned near every time.

Obviously I hung around with a better breed of pistol shooters then
you do.

>> being the fine example of American manhood that you
>
>Let me guess, you've got a small dick, no ?
>
>> believe you are, cannot do something, that you are average?
>>
>
>http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/youare
>

--
Cheers,
John B.

[John B.]

Old Dobbsey seems to have a thing about dicks. Apparently spends a lot
of time thinking about them and making comparisons.... Likely one of
Them.
--
Cheers,
John B.

[John B.]

Only the smaller ones.
--
Cheers,
John B.