Re: Before you shoot cats....
Gunner
> Read about how some people feel about them. Word to the wise, don't
>shoot the wrong person's cat.
>
> Snipe
>
> A cat owner in the UK wrote:
>
>I am so terribly sorry to announce the passing of my precious
>17-year-old feline friend, Tava.
>
>
>
> Anyone who knew Tava or knows me well will be aware of how utterly
>devastated I am by his massive loss. He was an extraordinary cat with
>an amazing personality, a tremendous zest for life and the ability
>naturally to charm anyone who crossed his path, for he adored everyone
>he met and the new experiences they brought. He even enjoyed going to
>the vet as he delighted in looking out the window on the journey there,
>and he sat peacefully in the waiting room watching all the adventures
>around him.
>
> Tava enhanced my life when he blessed it with his arrival in October
>1987. My mother rang to say that she was bringing me an adorable
>bubbly chocolate Persian kitten who, despite having just been wrenched
>from his mother, littermates, home and the world he knew by being
>placed into a moving vehicle for the first time and driven off by a
>stranger, just wouldn't stop playing. He was enchanted by every
>experience, even at that young age, and never shed that youthful
>outlook.
>
> My darling boy was warm, loving and so beautifully behaved that he
>instilled some discipline into my life, waking me each morning after I
>slept through all the alarms, and encouraging me to go to bed at a
>decent hour by leaping onto the bed and curling up on the pillow next
>to me until I dropped off to sleep. Even though, once he became
>arthritic, this meant that he would have to wake me again so that I
>could put him gently on the floor before he padded off to his own bed,
>it was still a pleasure that I relished, and there was nothing
>comparable to Tava's gentle whisper of a meow directly into my ear.
>
> When he lost his sight just after Christmas, his soft voice from the
>floor still managed to rouse me every morning, and he quickly learned
>his way around so ably that it was easy to forget he had any
>disability. He remained fiercely independent whenever I tried to steer
>him, but he would often quietly call out just to make sure that I was
>there should he need me.
>
> I needed him much, much more. Tava led me through the challenges of
>university, the turmoil of a move to the UK when his magnetism
>captivated those at the cattery, and numerous house moves where he was
>the first to settle in. His vibrancy and devoted love uplifted me
>during an awful marriage-and the easily resisted demands of my
>ex-husband to get rid of the cats!-as well as the difficult divorce
>and the more recent nearly unbearable death of my father. After that
>dire event, Tava would regularly respond to my wailing by shaking off
>his nap, rising and slowly leading his aging bones to enquire after my
>well-being, thus instantly melting away a significant amount of my
>pain.
>
>
> The appalling sorrow I'm feeling now is the first bout of misery I
>have had to suffer without my precious Tavisham here to look after me,
>to push away all the scary demons and bring a smile to my face.
>Fortunately, his memory is powerful.
>
> He was an amazing trouper who surely stunned the vets each time they
>diagnosed something worrying, including kidney disease, by defying any
>poor prognosis. Unfortunately, this let me begin to believe he was
>invincible.
>
> Sadly, on Saturday night, he suffered an extremely violent seizure
>and, although he recovered fairly impressively and welcomed his
>favourite forehead-rubs, he began looking for a hiding place in the
>wee hours. Bearing in mind that my last conversation with my father
>had him asking if Tava would have somewhere to go to be alone like
>outdoor cats did, I decided to leave my angelic furry boy in peace even
>though I would have preferred to follow him everywhere, though I stayed
>nearby. By Sunday morning, he was lying weak in the doorway of his
>favourite room, purring all morning as I lay beside him to keep him
>happy and warm. Sadly, his condition worsened, and although I can
>barely face the huge loss now permeating our home, I know that if ever
>a cat deserved to make it to Heaven, it would be my beloved Tava, and
>I'm sure my father is looking after him now.
>
> Tava is also survived by his 'stepson' Darryl, a 16-year-old
>pewter Persian who is missing him terribly but looking after me
>impressively well in the circumstances.
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
H. L. Mencken
Don Foreman
wrote:
>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:49:59 +0000 (UTC), Snipe...@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Read about how some people feel about them. Word to the wise, don't
>>shoot the wrong person's cat.
There's a big hoo-ha going on in Wisconsin right now about shooting
cats.
In MN, feral cats have the same status as gophers and weasels: it's
OK to shoot them if they're a problem. Cats that are companions and
pets should be treated as such rather than allowed to roam at will
and lurk near bird feeders.
The legal situation with dogs is less clear, but the practice is no
less clear in rural areas if an unrestrained domestic animal becomes a
recurrant nuisance.
On the other hand, shooting a person who shot the animal you allowed
to become feral is not winked at. That's a ticket to jail for a
long time. Warning poofs in the snow are considered a "statement in
unversally-understood language" as long as they don't hit anybody.
Mrs. Stringer used to "speak out" thusly to snowmobile trespassers
with her .30-06 until she was well past 80. She never hit anybody
but she might have punched a few sleds as punctuation. Just letting
'em know she was paying attention to her domain and expected them
to do so also.
Dave Hinz
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:03:39 GMT, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:49:59 +0000 (UTC), Snipe...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Read about how some people feel about them. Word to the wise, don't
>>>shoot the wrong person's cat.
>
> There's a big hoo-ha going on in Wisconsin right now about shooting
> cats.
> In MN, feral cats have the same status as gophers and weasels: it's
> OK to shoot them if they're a problem.
I, for one, am shocked by this proposal. I had no idea that feral cats
_were_ any different than other pest animals, legally speaking.
I suppose someone is now going to tell me I shouldn't be shooting
the gophers as well?
Don Foreman
Dave Hinz
than a pest gopher, a pest raccoon, or any other critter that is where
it doesn't belong.
If it comes down to songbirds or a feral cat, I'll protect the birds.
jim rozen
>If it comes down to songbirds or a feral cat, I'll protect the birds.
Oddly though the birds are just as feral as the cats.
Jim
--
==================================================
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==================================================
Dave Hinz
> In article <3a0r8aF...@individual.net>, Dave Hinz says...
>
>>If it comes down to songbirds or a feral cat, I'll protect the birds.
>
> Oddly though the birds are just as feral as the cats.
Gerald Miller
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:03:39 GMT, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 19:49:59 +0000 (UTC), Snipe...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>> Read about how some people feel about them. Word to the wise, don't
>>>shoot the wrong person's cat.
>
>There's a big hoo-ha going on in Wisconsin right now about shooting
>cats.
>
>In MN, feral cats have the same status as gophers and weasels: it's
>OK to shoot them if they're a problem. Cats that are companions and
>pets should be treated as such rather than allowed to roam at will
>and lurk near bird feeders.
>
I prefer a CATapult to discourage shittycats.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
jim rozen
>
>> Oddly though the birds are just as feral as the cats.
>
>Well, I think the birds were there first, weren't they?
Heh. Actually yes.
To put this in perspective, there's no reason not to
shoot either of those. How do folks feel about shooting
the birds? If it's OK to shoot the cats, then it's OK
to shoot birds.
Jim Stewart
> In article <3a0vjtF...@individual.net>, Dave Hinz says...
>
>>>Oddly though the birds are just as feral as the cats.
>>
>>Well, I think the birds were there first, weren't they?
>
>
> Heh. Actually yes.
>
> To put this in perspective, there's no reason not to
> shoot either of those. How do folks feel about shooting
> the birds? If it's OK to shoot the cats, then it's OK
> to shoot birds.
Isn't there some common wisdom that
says the least cute animal loses in
a situation like this?
Mike Fields
"Gerald Miller" <grmi...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:hckm31hbukhcrg42h...@4ax.com...
A fence charger hooked to an empty tuna can seems to work ...
Actually, in King County, Washington, cats are supposed to be
controlled just like dogs (leash law). Animal control will loan you
the live trap to catch the critters and it costs the owner $50-$100
to get the critter back depending on if it was licensed (the only
down side is there is a waiting list to borrow the traps .. go figure ;-)
Ken Davey
http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg200503160743.asp
Australia
http://www.deh.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/cat/index.html
"There is clear evidence that feral cats have had a heavy impact on island
fauna. On Macquarie Island, for example, feral cats caused the extinction of
a subspecies of the red-fronted parakeet. On the mainland, they have
probably contributed to the extinction of many small to medium sized mammals
and ground-nesting birds in the arid zone, and seriously affected bilby,
mala and numbat populations. In some instances, feral cats have directly
threatened the success of recovery programs for endangered species.
Feral cats carry infectious diseases such as toxoplasmosis and
sarcosporidiosis, which can be transmitted to native animals, domestic
livestock and humans. If rabies were to be accidentally introduced into
Australia, there is a high risk that feral cats would act as carriers of the
disease."
For my money feral cats = target practice.
Regards.
Ken.
--
http://www.rupert.net/~solar
Return address supplied by 'spammotel'
http://www.spammotel.com
Lew Hartswick
> In article <3a0r8aF...@individual.net>, Dave Hinz says...
>
>
>>If it comes down to songbirds or a feral cat, I'll protect the birds.
>
>
> Oddly though the birds are just as feral as the cats.
>
> Jim
>
>
No Jim. Feral means a domestic animal gone wild, the birds are
naturally wild ie. never were domesticated.
...lew...
Terry Collins
> Australia
> http://www.deh.gov.au/biodiversity/invasive/publications/cat/index.html
Did you ever see that documentary on the ABC about the last group of
aborigines to be brought into civilisation in the 1980s? When the old
women were asked what they had survived on she answered "cats" and then
proceeded to demonostrate how to catch on in spinifex country. Basically
you just run them to ground (they are only good for a short sprint) then
club them and chuck them on a fire.
She basically confirmed the heavy impact that cats (all cats are feral
in AUS) had had on native wildlife that was traditional aboriginal food.
jim rozen
>> To put this in perspective, there's no reason not to
>> shoot either of those. How do folks feel about shooting
>> the birds? If it's OK to shoot the cats, then it's OK
>> to shoot birds.
>
>Isn't there some common wisdom that
>says the least cute animal loses in
>a situation like this?
For me it's sort of a non-issue. There are no feral
animals in my city, because there's an animal control
officer who makes sure of this. And I find no particular
reason to go around shooting birds either.
JIm
jim rozen
Hartswick says...
>> Oddly though the birds are just as feral as the cats.
>No Jim. Feral means a domestic animal gone wild, the birds are
>naturally wild ie. never were domesticated.
It's a non-biological distinction. Sure the cat is felix
domesticus but probably most of the feral cats in question
were born in the wild and never were pets.
A biologist would not make the distinction. They're both
wild animals.
Don Foreman
wrote:
>In article <3a0r8aF...@individual.net>, Dave Hinz says...
>
>>If it comes down to songbirds or a feral cat, I'll protect the birds.
>
>Oddly though the birds are just as feral as the cats.
Good point. Jim. Feral does mean wild, not necessarily
predatory.
Feral cats are predators and owls and raptors are not songbirds.
Songbirds eat seeds. Those who might enjoy the company of songbirds
should not be deprived of that by feral cats. Songbirds present no
nuisance to anyone that I can think of.
I have been known to shoot the tailfeathers off of a (protected and
gorgeous) downey woodpecker when it persisted in trying to drill my
eaves at dark-early hours. I did not want to injure the bird, but
Gawd what a racket he made! A bit of precison plucking from yonder
motivated him to go drill something else hours before I care to rise.
He's still around and I enjoy seeing him now and then. There's
plenty of room round here for both of us.
Larry Jaques
<lhart...@earthlink.net> spake:
>jim rozen wrote:
>> Oddly though the birds are just as feral as the cats.
>
>No Jim. Feral means a domestic animal gone wild,
Ah, the term "Feral Government" just took on new meaning.
----------------------------------------------------------
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Larry Jaques
<jim_m...@newsguy.com> spake:
>In article <2NL_d.12254$oO4....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Lew
>Hartswick says...
>
>>> Oddly though the birds are just as feral as the cats.
>
>>No Jim. Feral means a domestic animal gone wild, the birds are
>>naturally wild ie. never were domesticated.
>
>It's a non-biological distinction. Sure the cat is felix
>domesticus but probably most of the feral cats in question
>were born in the wild and never were pets.
>
>A biologist would not make the distinction. They're both
>wild animals.
Cats and biologists?
--
People will occasionally stumble over the truth, but
most of the time they'll pick themselves up and carry on.
--anon
jim rozen
>Feral cats are predators and owls and raptors are not songbirds.
No kidding. We found a huge ring of pigeon feathers in our
backyard. A hawk had killed the bird, ripped the feathers
off, and flown away with the carcass.
Raptors and scavengers all serve a purpose. We had a huge
number of crows that gathered in the trees in your yard,
they were having a convention I think.
And the scavenger vultures around here are *huge*. They're
as large as wild turkeys, amazing birds. You think there's
a german sheperd up in the tree by the roadside....
doo
as I think I've told this story once before.
When I lived in Pensylvania, I owned a really cool cat.
I worked graveyard shift, and when I left for work, I let the cat out
for the night. I'd come home in the morn, call for the cat (he'd come
running) and the cat would come in, eat, sleep, and hang around with me
'til I left for work again.
I often found a "gift" of his hunting prowess by the door, usually a
shrew or mole that met their demise by his claws.
One day it was a pile of red feathers. Had to have been a cardinal.
This is when my one neighbor mentioned how free roaming cats ruin the
songbird population.
Never mind the fact that the mole population declined, there were no
more skunks digging in the yards for grubs, or the squirrels seemed to
have moved on to easier-bird-feeder-raiding grounds. Never mind the
fact that my cat was indoors during the day, when the bird feeders were
mostly visited. Never mind the fact that I placed my bird feeders well
clear of anywhere that the cat could have used as an ambush point.
Never mind the fact that the red-tailed hawks in the area picked off
more songbirds.
No, sir... my cat was THE cause of the declining songbird population.
I guess I don't understand some people's reasoning. What if the pile
of feathers had been from an sparrow (an introduced species) or a
nasty, noisy starling, or an illigitimate bastard blue jay instead of a
pretty red cardinal? The cat would have been a hero, I suppose.
Anyhow, to end on a humorous note, I once found a "gift" by the door
in the morning consisting of a dead squirrel minus the head. I wondered
at the time where the head might have gone, possibly tucked into boss
squirrel's nest as he slept as a "godfather" type warning, or could it
have been used by the cat in some secret cat ritual of building a small
bonfire and dancing around it with painted-cat-body and squirrel head
on stick?
All I know is I didn't care for the cat to lick my face after
that...LOL
Ron
~Roy~
<dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
snip
. Songbirds present no
>===<>nuisance to anyone that I can think of.
They are to me..I hate it when I have my windows open and those
critters start their dam singing and chirping.................Thats
what they make 12 ga 3 1/2" shells for, ..those pesky
songbirds......;-)
==============================================
Put some color in your cheeks...garden naked!
Gerald Miller
I live in a side split wherein the upper level overhangs the level
below by about three feet, leaving a sheltered area where snow does
not accumulate, and, due to heat loss, this area never freezes. Every
spring I clean up the winter accumulation of cat shit from the three
neighbourhood free spirit house pets despite my numerous requests that
they take better care of them. Now I have a special ice cube tray that
provides excellent ammunition for my high powered "hard water" gun.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
Nick Hull
m...@hotmail.com (~Roy~) wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 02:12:22 -0600, Don Foreman
> <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>
> snip
>
> . Songbirds present no
> >===<>nuisance to anyone that I can think of.
When they are shitting on my car I feed them to my cats
--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/
Eric R Snow
As far as heads go, the cat most likely ate it. All of it. I've
watched my cat chew several rat heads. He crunches them up and downs
'em, jaws, teeth, fur, all of it. Leaves me the rest. Thanks cat.
ERS
Too_Many_Tools
wildlife, one needs to bear in mind that it is the owners of these
animals who are at fault for allowing this to occur.
(1) because they allow the animal in question to roam and (2) because
they allow their pets to breed with abandon.
Let us also not forget to mention the impact human civilization has had
on wildlife numbers.
In my experience, people are far too quick to reach for their gun
without considering what the real source of the problem is.
Killing the creature in question does not solve the problem, just the
immediate symptom.
I have also noted that many of those that I have known that shoot
whatever crosses their property also seem to allow their own dogs and
cats to roam without regard for their neighbors. In one case many years
ago, a neighbor shot the cat of an older woman which had escaped from
her home. This neighbor had several black Labs that roamed the
neighborhood freely making a nusiance of themselves. One day the two
dogs did not come home. Years later I learned from her son that the old
lady had shot and buried the dogs in her garden in revenge for her
cat's untimely death.
TMT
Gerald Miller
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
So in other words, I should forget about eliminating the immediate
problem with the shitty cats and shoot the neighbours instead?
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
Too_Many_Tools
What I would do is live trap the cats and hand them over to the local
animal control department.
If the neighbors want their cats, they can pay the price...over and
over and over again to get them back.
Be prepared to be unpopular with the neighbors though...those who are
unable to act responsibily with their animals usually blame others for
their problems.
I take it that the neighbors know about your problem?
TMT
Dave Mundt
On 19 Mar 2005 22:40:15 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
I suppose this is more a sign of the increasing urbanization
of society than any sign of a lessened sense of responsibility of
pet owners.
While dogs may be domesticated, and, cats semi-so, they
have deep roots in the "wild animal" community, and, so the "natural"
thing for them is to move round in the great outdoors, hunt, build
territories, reproduce, and play. The problem is less with the
animals than it is with the attitudes of the humans that seem
to push them into cartoon parodies of their reality.
Years ago, before my area of Knoxpatch got too bloody overrun
with people, we kept a dog as well as a cat. They were mostly
"outside" creatures, only being let into the house at intervals. They
also roamed at will. It was not a problem because my neighbors were
both spread really far out, and, were not all that up-tight about
animals. We all knew each other's pets, and simply made friends with
them.
This was a great benefit to the area, actually, as it kept the
mole, rat, and rabbit problem down. Since most of us had gardens of
moderate size, this made a real difference.
Alas, over the past 30 yrs or so, the area has become infested
with rows of tacky, little apartment buildings, filled with too many
folks. While many of them may well be folks of good will and
friendliness, they are also very transient, and, it seems that a lot
of them have a real fear of nature (in general) and dogs/cats in
specific. This fear is a complicated, many-rooted thing, but, I think
that some of the blame for it lays on the back of the media - who seem
to delight in massive reporting of ANY incident involving a dog, and,
then continue to go on and on about how any dog has to be considered
a danger, and should be treated as such.
These factors, combined with the fact that the typical
apartment dwells has neither a clue WHO a given critter belongs to,
or, a desire to integrate enough WITH the community to find that out,
seems to mean that the automatic response is to call Animal Control
and let it become the state's problem.
So...because of this, I no longer keep a dog, and any cats
that come to live with me are inside only animals. Cats deal with
this fairly well, although they STILL want to go out and play in
the real world.
As for their impact on the songbird population...I suspect
that the problem THERE is more the level of visibility than actual
impact. There may be areas where the landscape is denuded of
songbirds due to a massive collection of feral cats...but if that
is so, it is probably because the songbirds were so bloody stupid
that having them gone raised the IQ of the gene pool by at least
a couple of points. In years past, my property has always been
a favorite hunting ground for neighborhood cats to use. I always
had a LOT of songbirds too, and, as a matter of fact, I recall
a number of times where I saw the songbirds pestering the cats
by deliberately flying down and perching on the ground or a low
branch, then, springing into the air and flying off when the
cats would try to catch them. If the songbirds were that concerned,
or frightened, why would they circle back and land NEAR the cats
(a known preditor) again?
Nature is a complicated and intricate process, and, alas
many humans are getting slightly too far away from the process...
which leads to irrational actions and general stupidity.
Now...as for roaming cats....once again...I suspect
that the main thing they are going after are rodents and moles,
both of which are small, and furry, and some folks consider
them to be cute (I don't). If that is a bad thing for you...
Let me know what your address is, I have a number of pesky
squirrels and mice that I would LOVE to find a good home for.
If you MUST do something "socially responsible", then, catch
the cats, have them neutered, THEN let them go back to their
owners.
Regards
Dave Mundt
jim rozen
> Nature is a complicated and intricate process, and, alas
>many humans are getting slightly too far away from the process...
>which leads to irrational actions and general stupidity.
Possibly the best discourse on this subject I've heard yet.
Though, one might say humans are getting to *close* to it!
We encounter a lot of the animals such as bears and deer
because we're encroaching on their habitat. I bet the
tacky apartment dwellers you mention do complain about
about how many deer they encounter with their cars. No
wonder, they went and built their houses where the deer
lived!
Our cats stay indoors. They like to eat mice, so we are
rodent-free in the house, even in the fall, when the field
mice come inside. But the neighbors cat does stalk the
bird feeder in the front yard - and as you say the birds
there are smart enough to keep him from making a kill.
Mean time between failure for most outdoor cats around
here is about six months - on account of the busy street
right in front of my house.
Living in the city here, pets are not allowed by law to
run wild, so there's no need to call the animal control
guy (except the time I trapped a bat in the attic and
wanted it tested for rabies) because that's what he does
*all* the time.
Ed Huntress
news:d1k5l...@drn.newsguy.com...
> In article <423d2199....@newsgroups.bellsouth.net>, Dave Mundt
says...
>
> > Nature is a complicated and intricate process, and, alas
> >many humans are getting slightly too far away from the process...
> >which leads to irrational actions and general stupidity.
>
> Possibly the best discourse on this subject I've heard yet.
>
> Though, one might say humans are getting to *close* to it!
>
> We encounter a lot of the animals such as bears and deer
> because we're encroaching on their habitat. I bet the
> tacky apartment dwellers you mention do complain about
> about how many deer they encounter with their cars. No
> wonder, they went and built their houses where the deer
> lived!
I didn't read Carl's message so I can't comment on what he said, but the
deer/bear/people relationships are somewhat different here in NJ. In 1900,
there were fewer than 100 deer in NJ. Now there are over 160,000 (winter
herd, minimum) and they have moved back in where the people already were. A
few years back, they ate $25,000 worth of new landscaping off the property
of my boss at the time, the VP of Wasino. <g>
In 1965, there were no bears in NJ. 'Hadn't been for over 100 years. Now we
have over 1,000, packed into the northwest corner but spreading out as we
speak, total number being debated. They came in on their own from NY and/or
PA. They, too, found they like moving in where the people had moved to in
the meantime. There are all those nice garbage cans around. And the little
kids look pretty tasty, too.
Oh, there were a couple of coyotes sighted here in Middlesex County last
year. They're also new immigrants.
The state is going to hell...
--
Ed Huntress
Too_Many_Tools
admiration.
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
changing environment and food supplies.
Remember Ireland and the potato famine? The Dust Bowl years during the
Great Depression? Happens to us too.
The reason why the deer are so plentiful is that their pedators have
for the large part been eliminated and replaced by your and my
automobiles. Based on the ever increasing numbers, drivers obviously
are not performing the pedatory function as well as who they replaced.
The bears and coyotes...well, when the food supply moves those animals
who depend on it moves with it. If garbage was controlled as it should
be, the bears will go away. It won't be and they won't either. They did
not just wake up one morning and think "Think I'll move to NJ" (they
are smarter than that ;<) ), their food supplies and habitat have
changed to the point where they were forced to. Remember all that new
construction going on because of cheap money...when that new home goes
up, it is at the expense of someone's else home...usually the
wildlife's.
Cause and effect always happens and usually in ways we don't
anticipate.
Rabbits and Australia come to mind.
TMT
Emmo
estimated hundred pets (cats and dogs) and are so bold that people are
getting nervous. So the city has started a coyote eradication program. So
the cats eat the birds, and the coyotes eat the cats...
Ed Huntress
news:1111339742....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> You make a good point about the migration of animals in response to
> changing environment and food supplies.
>
> Remember Ireland and the potato famine? The Dust Bowl years during the
> Great Depression? Happens to us too.
>
> The reason why the deer are so plentiful is that their pedators have
> for the large part been eliminated and replaced by your and my
> automobiles.
However, the reason that the deer are *out of control* is, first, the "hobby
farms" that sprung up in west- and northwest Jersey 30 years ago, and then
the low-density suburbanization of the region ever since. Houses are too
close together for hunting in large tracts of that area. But they're not too
close together for the deer. And the planting of lower shrubs and other
garden plants has provided a cornucopia for them. The density of deer
population in Princeton Township, NJ a few years ago was the highest in
North America.
The last time I looked, which was maybe ten years ago, a hunter could kill
11 deer per year in NJ if he got all the permits. And it's easy. A couple of
my friends got all 11 every year. But the number of hunters is declining
along with the range in which to hunt. The deer thrive in many times the
area in which one can hunt.
> Based on the ever increasing numbers, drivers obviously
> are not performing the pedatory function as well as who they replaced.
The predators left 200 years ago. Alpha predators don't do well in a place
this densely populated. Deer, on the other hand, do just great.
>
> The bears and coyotes...well, when the food supply moves those animals
> who depend on it moves with it. If garbage was controlled as it should
> be, the bears will go away.
It hasn't happened. Since the bears moved in, townships in the NW corner of
the state have enacted controls. The bears are still there. They're just
more aggressive.
As for coyotes, if you know of a way to cut off their food supply, it will
be very helpful. They seem to have established themselves in the natural
balance. They are incredibly adaptable. They'll eat almost anything.
There are quite a few of them in the state. I just mentioned the couple in
Middlesex County, where I live, because I'm within cannon range of
Manhatten. On 9/11, I watched the smoke from the WTC through my attic
window.
> It won't be and they won't either. They did
> not just wake up one morning and think "Think I'll move to NJ" (they
> are smarter than that ;<) ), their food supplies and habitat have
> changed to the point where they were forced to.
The theory is that they moved in from PA one drought year in which you could
wade across the Delaware River without getting your knees wet. The other
idea is that they just walked in from New York, as part of a general
expansion of the population into that part of New York State.
If there was something that "forced" them in, no one I've heard of has
mentioned it. A fair portion of that part of NJ is state land or just open
woods, so they got a toehold there. And then they moved into the suburban
areas a few years later.
> Remember all that new
> construction going on because of cheap money...when that new home goes
> up, it is at the expense of someone's else home...usually the
> wildlife's.
>
> Cause and effect always happens and usually in ways we don't
> anticipate.
TMT, any wildlife manager will tell you that the deer population in the
Northeast, particularly, has expanded enormously SINCE the suburbanites have
moved it. The whitetail deer is not a deep-woods animal. In this part of the
country, ground laurel is their primary winter browse, in the woods.
They thrive in burned-over and cut-over timber, where the new growth is low
enough for them to reach, including twigs and shoots, in winter. Of course,
a nice planting of domesticated woody shrubs serves the purpose even better.
I've seen them walking down the streets of some towns in the western part of
the state, munching on the shrubs.
And the wild turkeys have moved back in here, too. We had to chase some off
a soccer field last spring. <g>
--
Ed Huntress
JB
On 9/11, I was in the WTC :-(
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:S1l%d.1534$4q2....@fe08.lga...
Ed Huntress
news:6oydnTfDWrJ...@comcast.com...
> Hi Ed, I'm your neighbor. I live in Middletown, NJ.
Yeah, that's not far at all.
>
> On 9/11, I was in the WTC :-(
Yike! Did you work there, or did you just have the bad luck to be there that
day? I was thinking of taking my family to Windows of the World before the
weather got cold that fall.
My neighbor worked on the 98th floor. That day, for the first time in
months, he was late for work. His train stopped in the Hudson Tubes and then
went back to Newark. His wife nearly went crazy until she found out he was
OK.
--
Ed Huntress
Too_Many_Tools
Ever wonder how McDonalds keeps their costs down? ;<)
TMT
Too_Many_Tools
same thing.
Times are good for deer...the pressure from predators (which include
hunters also) has been reduced and their food supply has increased.
Both factors mean increased population. Change either factor and you
will see the populations drop.
There is enormous pressure on wildlife habitats across the nation. The
next time you drive down the road, take a good look at the construction
going on. Most of it is on land that was not developed before. The
wildlife has to move somewhere and that somewhere is your and my
backyards.
As for garbage, it is just an alternative (and excellent) food source.
Remove the food source and the animal in question will move on or
starve. Of course you would expect the bears to be more
aggressive...you are messing with their three squares a day. Ever
notice how people get cranky when they miss their scheduled feeding
too. Bears or humans, same rules apply. Who will win in the
end...humans since the bears don't have guns...yet;<).
Coyotes are just one of a number of animals that adapt very well to our
civilized environment. Garbage control by humans is grossly inadequate.
Remove this source of feeding and they will search for other sources.
Animals will only stay if the food supply is plentiful and ongoing. As
there are only so dogs, cats and rats available to them as alternative
food choices, coyotes will move on once that fallback source of food
supply is used up.
Nature is the great equalizer, in time she levels the playing field for
all concerned including man.
TMT
Ed Huntress
> And who eats the coyotes?
>
> Ever wonder how McDonalds keeps their costs down? ;<)
>
> TMT
The fine print does say "our burgers are all-mammal." A little lizard meat
probably would help those fatties out.
BTW, the state health people nailed a Chinese restaurant near Somerville a
few years ago for serving venison without telling anyone about it. It
appears that it was roadkill. Deer me.
Considering that they were just a few miles north of the highest per-mile
deer roadkill area in the country, I guess the temptation was just too much.
--
Ed Huntress
Nick Hull
Jim Stewart <jste...@jkmicro.com> wrote:
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>
> > "Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1111425073....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>And who eats the coyotes?
> >>
> >>Ever wonder how McDonalds keeps their costs down? ;<)
> >>
> >>TMT
> >
> >
> > The fine print does say "our burgers are all-mammal." A little lizard meat
> > probably would help those fatties out.
> >
> > BTW, the state health people nailed a Chinese restaurant near Somerville a
> > few years ago for serving venison without telling anyone about it. It
> > appears that it was roadkill. Deer me.
>
> LOL.
>
> How come it's aways a Chinese restaurant in
> these stories?
Because we all know what the Vietnamese restaurants serve. ;)
Ed Huntress
> Good discussion Ed and I agree with what you cover...we are saying the
> same thing.
>
> Times are good for deer...the pressure from predators (which include
> hunters also) has been reduced and their food supply has increased.
> Both factors mean increased population. Change either factor and you
> will see the populations drop.
We seem to have the perfect balance right now, for the deer -- they go for
'dem new wisteria buds and fancy topiary. They've taken to getting body
piercings and hanging out in the malls, bleaching their hair and using a lot
of hair gel. I saw one the other day and I thought the damned thing was a
long-legged porcupine.
As long as they don't go full-goth, I'll put up with them...
> There is enormous pressure on wildlife habitats across the nation. The
> next time you drive down the road, take a good look at the construction
> going on. Most of it is on land that was not developed before. The
> wildlife has to move somewhere and that somewhere is your and my
> backyards.
Hitchhiking and jumping freights, with all their belongings tied up in their
pathetic little hobo scarves...
>
> As for garbage, it is just an alternative (and excellent) food source.
> Remove the food source and the animal in question will move on or
> starve. Of course you would expect the bears to be more
> aggressive...you are messing with their three squares a day. Ever
> notice how people get cranky when they miss their scheduled feeding
> too. Bears or humans, same rules apply. Who will win in the
> end...humans since the bears don't have guns...yet;<).
The fear here in New Jersey is that they'll ally with the mob.
>
> Coyotes are just one of a number of animals that adapt very well to our
> civilized environment. Garbage control by humans is grossly inadequate.
> Remove this source of feeding and they will search for other sources.
> Animals will only stay if the food supply is plentiful and ongoing. As
> there are only so dogs, cats and rats available to them as alternative
> food choices, coyotes will move on once that fallback source of food
> supply is used up.
Jeez, we have to wait until they eat all the dogs and cats? <g>
I have an offbeat reaction to all of this intrusion. For a large part of my
life I lived in rural areas, and I've been a hunter most of my life. On one
hand I love seeing the wildlife moving in. On the other hand, it feels a
little like being invaded by immigrants.
New Jersey has some perigrine falcons back here now, and some bald eagles,
and so on. A sharp-shinned hawk hunts in my back yard. It all feels very
strange and unnatural. Wild turkeys that won't move until you practically
kick them are unnatural. Deer running down streets are unnatural. Black
bears that have so taken over some state parks that you can't leave your
campsite are unnatural. At least, they're unnatural for New Jersey. Out west
or in the deep south, I love to see them. Then I like to go home when I've
had enough of coyotes keeping me awake half the night.
Now, there's no going home. I'm going trout fishing in in NJ in a couple of
weeks and I'll have to do the same thing I used to do back when I lived in
Pennsylvania: stay away from the berry bushes and never walk around to the
back side of a bush to take a leak.
It's barbaric.
--
Ed Huntress
Jim Stewart
> I have an offbeat reaction to all of this intrusion. For a large part of my
> life I lived in rural areas, and I've been a hunter most of my life. On one
> hand I love seeing the wildlife moving in. On the other hand, it feels a
> little like being invaded by immigrants.
>
> New Jersey has some perigrine falcons back here now, and some bald eagles,
> and so on. A sharp-shinned hawk hunts in my back yard. It all feels very
> strange and unnatural. Wild turkeys that won't move until you practically
> kick them are unnatural. Deer running down streets are unnatural. Black
> bears that have so taken over some state parks that you can't leave your
> campsite are unnatural. At least, they're unnatural for New Jersey. Out west
> or in the deep south, I love to see them. Then I like to go home when I've
> had enough of coyotes keeping me awake half the night.
I know what you mean. I grew up in the Cascade Mountains
and saw far less wildlife than I do now, in the Sacramento
Valley. I've seen swenson's hawks, burrowing owls, barn
owls, unknown species of falcons, a pair of young Golden Eagles,
adult, yearling and pup coyotes, possum nests with babies,
raccoons and thousands of ground squirrels and voles.
All between my house and I-80, about 500 feet away.
Jim Stewart
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1111425073....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>And who eats the coyotes?
>>
>>Ever wonder how McDonalds keeps their costs down? ;<)
>>
>>TMT
>
>
> The fine print does say "our burgers are all-mammal." A little lizard meat
> probably would help those fatties out.
>
> BTW, the state health people nailed a Chinese restaurant near Somerville a
> few years ago for serving venison without telling anyone about it. It
> appears that it was roadkill. Deer me.
LOL.
How come it's aways a Chinese restaurant in
these stories?
> Considering that they were just a few miles north of the highest per-mile
Don Bruder
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>
> > "Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1111425073....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>And who eats the coyotes?
> >>
> >>Ever wonder how McDonalds keeps their costs down? ;<)
> >>
> >>TMT
> >
> >
> > The fine print does say "our burgers are all-mammal." A little lizard meat
> > probably would help those fatties out.
> >
> > BTW, the state health people nailed a Chinese restaurant near Somerville a
> > few years ago for serving venison without telling anyone about it. It
> > appears that it was roadkill. Deer me.
>
> LOL.
>
> How come it's aways a Chinese restaurant in
> these stories?
That's FRIED RICE, you plick!
--
Don Bruder - dak...@sonic.net - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html> for full details.
Ed Huntress
news:W4Cdnbc9lom...@omsoft.com...
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>
> > "Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1111425073....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>And who eats the coyotes?
> >>
> >>Ever wonder how McDonalds keeps their costs down? ;<)
> >>
> >>TMT
> >
> >
> > The fine print does say "our burgers are all-mammal." A little lizard
meat
> > probably would help those fatties out.
> >
> > BTW, the state health people nailed a Chinese restaurant near Somerville
a
> > few years ago for serving venison without telling anyone about it. It
> > appears that it was roadkill. Deer me.
>
> LOL.
>
> How come it's aways a Chinese restaurant in
> these stories?
That's a good question. This is a true story, BTW.
--
Ed Huntress
Too_Many_Tools
I too am seeing far more wildlife show up in my backyard...foxes,
woodchucks, hawks, coyotes, deer and more deer...
Not by coincidence, we are having a major construction boom.
I agree that it is unnatural to see the critter kingdom on my doorstep
but I figure with what is going on, a little modification of lifestyle
goes a long ways. My pets have become indoor pets and a fence is around
the garden. Landscaping plants are slowly being replaced with types
that deer tend not to bother. I figure that one can try to fight the
trend or you can adapt to a changing world. Kind of like having a give
and take arrangement with my human neighbors. In retrospect, my
wildlife neighbors are much easier to get along with then the human
counterparts. ;<)
TMT
Joe
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> Good discussion Ed and I agree with what you cover...we are saying the
> same thing.
> [snip]
> Who will win in the
> end...humans since the bears don't have guns...yet;<).
[snip]
Support your right to arm bears!
Joe
jim rozen
>
>>
>> How does that Cat Steven's song go, "The Cat's in the
>> Kettle at the Peking Moon...
>
>You mean the late Jim Croce. Cat Stevens is the guy who converted to Islam.
Nope, it was Cat Stevens. It's a parody of "Cat's in the Cradle..."
Dan Murphy
>
> How does that Cat Steven's song go, "The Cat's in the
> Kettle at the Peking Moon...
You mean the late Jim Croce. Cat Stevens is the guy who converted to Islam.
Dan
John Husvar
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Nature is the great equalizer, in time she levels the playing field for
> all concerned including man.
>
> TMT
And the jury's still out on whether self-aware intelligence remaking its
environment is conducive to long-term survival of a certain species.
A verdict is expected shortly, however - in a couple million years or
so. :)
jim rozen
>> How come it's aways a Chinese restaurant in
>> these stories?
>
>That's a good question. This is a true story, BTW.
My friend in high school lived next to a very good
Chinese resturant. His brother did find cat heads
in the trash there once.
How does that Cat Steven's song go, "The Cat's in the
Kettle at the Peking Moon..."
Jim
BillP
> In article <kmK%d.523$L81...@fe11.lga>, Ed Huntress says...
>
>
>>>How come it's aways a Chinese restaurant in
>>>these stories?
>>
>>That's a good question. This is a true story, BTW.
>
>
> My friend in high school lived next to a very good
> Chinese resturant. His brother did find cat heads
> in the trash there once.
>
> How does that Cat Steven's song go, "The Cat's in the
> Kettle at the Peking Moon..."
>
> Jim
>
>
True, Jim, but Cat's song was parodied by Weird Al
Yankovich when he went there every day at noon....
~8O)
doo
> >
> > How come it's aways a Chinese restaurant in
> > these stories?
>
> That's a good question. This is a true story, BTW.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
Another story is of a chinese restaurant near Reading,PA getting shut
down by the Board of Health years ago for serving cat and dog.
Seems they got investigated after the field behind the restaurant was
being cleared for development and a large number of pelts was found.
Ed Huntress
Well, there ya' go. That's a good example of adaptation. We think of those
birds, particularly, as species that live in really remote areas. I had no
idea that Golden Eagles would nest that close to human activity, for
example.
Falcons seem to be very adaptable. There are a couple of nests of Peregrines
that have been living on the sides of tall buildings in New York City. The
littlest falcons, the Kestrels (they're called "sparrow hawks" here) live
all over the state. It's been some years now but I saw a Merlin (also called
a "duck hawk"), a falcon just slightly smaller than a Peregrine and
similarly colored, near the Delaware River.
You could get some numbers on overall eastern populations from the records
the birders keep at Hawk Mountain in PA, or from similar ones kept at Cape
May, NJ, which are two hotspots for the raptor migrations. There must be
something similar in the West.
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
That's an interesting fact, that you're adapting, too, to the changing
wildlife environment.
All kidding aside, I think it's a very interesting phenomenon. As our
suburban lifestyle evolves, especially the spread-out version (which starts
at around $800,000 in New Jersey, but maybe a quarter of that in parts of
Pennsylvania, for instance), we're somewhat less lethal to the wildlife than
we were, say, 50 or 75 years ago. I've lived in NJ since 1948, with a few
gaps along the way, and I've seen a definite evolution in this direction:
more of the common species, and a considerable restoration of the ones that
were gone from here, or nearly so, a half-century ago.
I'd like to know more details about it. We do have a damned good wildlife
department, IMO, but they didn't do it all themselves. I followed the return
of the ospreys here (DDT nearly did them in), and I know something about the
deer and the Canada goose (we're inundated with them; if you want a dozen
geese and don't care how you get them, you can ground-sluice that many on
any day in some of the fields in the western part of the state). We have 28
streams, they tell me, that support populations of wild brook trout, while
there were only about a dozen when I was a kid.
But I don't know about the coyotes, or many details about the bears. .
.except that camping in some areas can be a little dicey. And there are many
other species, less well-known, that I read are making comebacks.
It's all pretty interesting and I'll bet it would be interesting to study
seriously. If I had another life to spare, I'd spend it learning the
subject.
--
Ed Huntress
Dan Murphy
> Nope, it was Cat Stevens. It's a parody of "Cat's in the Cradle..."
Right. It was Harry Chapin that sang it, and Jim Croce. Cat Stevens never
sang it. Well maybe he sang to himself in the car.
From http://rlg.peircecentral.com/Cat.html Looking for lyrics to "Cats in
the Cradle"? Don't look here! Cat Stevens did NOT ever sing that song, and
therefore I have not included the lyrics on my site
http://www.lyricsdepot.com/album/cats-in-the-cradle.html
Looks like Ugly Joe Kid and Guns N Roses sang it too.
Dan
Gunner
Its all Bush's fault!
Gunner
Lathe Dementia. Recognized as one of the major sub-strains of the
all-consuming virus, Packratitis. Usual symptoms easily recognized
and normally is contracted for life. Can be very contagious.
michael
Don Bruder
Gunner <gunner...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> >It's all pretty interesting and I'll bet it would be interesting to study
> >seriously. If I had another life to spare, I'd spend it learning the
> >subject.
>
>
> Its all Bush's fault!
>
> Gunner
Thank you, Gunner, right on cue...
See me out back after the show for your payoff... errr, "fee for
services rendered".
<looks around> Oops... I think I blew our cover...
jim rozen
>You could get some numbers on overall eastern populations from the records
>the birders keep at Hawk Mountain in PA, or from similar ones kept at Cape
>May, NJ, which are two hotspots for the raptor migrations. There must be
>something similar in the West.
Another place around here is Iona Island in the hudson highlands.
There's apparently a pretty good population of bald iggles
developing in the area.
jim rozen
>
>jim rozen <jim_m...@newsguy.com> wrote in
>news:d1qj1...@drn.newsguy.com:
>
>> Nope, it was Cat Stevens. It's a parody of "Cat's in the Cradle..."
>
>Right. It was Harry Chapin
GGrrr. I always get that one wrong!
Lew Hartswick
>
> Falcons seem to be very adaptable. There are a couple of nests of Peregrines
> that have been living on the sides of tall buildings in New York City. The
> littlest falcons, the Kestrels (they're called "sparrow hawks" here) live
> all over the state. It's been some years now but I saw a Merlin (also called
> a "duck hawk"), a falcon just slightly smaller than a Peregrine and
> similarly colored, near the Delaware River.
>
> You could get some numbers on overall eastern populations from the records
> the birders keep at Hawk Mountain in PA, or from similar ones kept at Cape
> May, NJ, which are two hotspots for the raptor migrations. There must be
> something similar in the West.
>
> Ed Huntress
Yes we have a spot on Sandia (above the Tijeras canyon) called
Hawk Watch, where they do the anual migration count for the
eastern part of the Rockies.
...lew...
Ed Huntress
news:bxq0e.3048$H06....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Yeah, I figured you must have some flyway hotspots out there.
BTW, my memory failed me on the Merlins. They used to be called "pigeon
hawks" out here, not duck hawks. Duck hawks were the Peregrines. Both were
extremely rare when I was a kid; I knew them by reputation only, until they
started their comeback in the early '80s.
--
Ed Huntress
Larry Jaques
<lhart...@earthlink.net> spake:
I had fun on that peak when I visited beautiful downtown "Your Area",
lew, as well as enjoying your generous hospitality. Romping around on
the edge of the cliffs with a camera at 10k feet for half an hour with
no shortness of breath surprised and delighted me. The tram ride was a
blast, too.
--
Put some color in your cheeks: Garden Naked!
------
www.diversify.com Colorful Website Development
Larry Jaques
<hunt...@optonline.net> spake:
>> Yes we have a spot on Sandia (above the Tijeras canyon) called
>> Hawk Watch, where they do the anual migration count for the
>> eastern part of the Rockies.
>> ...lew...
>
>Yeah, I figured you must have some flyway hotspots out there.
>
>BTW, my memory failed me on the Merlins. They used to be called "pigeon
>hawks" out here, not duck hawks. Duck hawks were the Peregrines. Both were
>extremely rare when I was a kid; I knew them by reputation only, until they
>started their comeback in the early '80s.
A couple weeks ago I had what I believe was a Peregrine falcon land in
my back yard with a bird in its clutches. It stood there for a minute,
so I ran to grab my camera and got some blurry shots (autofocus
doesn't like slanted shots) through the glass. When I slowly opened
the door to take a live shot, it dropped the bird and both flew off.
This falcon stood there with the terrified (but unharmed) cheeping
finch in its talons for nearly two minutes, just looking around. I
don't know if it was a hunting lesson for a young bird or what, but it
was truly baffling to me. AFAIK, falcons aren't know for mercy.
Don Bruder
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 23:34:36 -0500, the inscrutable "Ed Huntress"
> <hunt...@optonline.net> spake:
>
> >> Yes we have a spot on Sandia (above the Tijeras canyon) called
> >> Hawk Watch, where they do the anual migration count for the
> >> eastern part of the Rockies.
> >> ...lew...
> >
> >Yeah, I figured you must have some flyway hotspots out there.
> >
> >BTW, my memory failed me on the Merlins. They used to be called "pigeon
> >hawks" out here, not duck hawks. Duck hawks were the Peregrines. Both were
> >extremely rare when I was a kid; I knew them by reputation only, until they
> >started their comeback in the early '80s.
>
> A couple weeks ago I had what I believe was a Peregrine falcon land in
> my back yard with a bird in its clutches. It stood there for a minute,
> so I ran to grab my camera and got some blurry shots (autofocus
> doesn't like slanted shots) through the glass. When I slowly opened
> the door to take a live shot, it dropped the bird and both flew off.
> This falcon stood there with the terrified (but unharmed) cheeping
> finch in its talons for nearly two minutes, just looking around.
Unless I've failed to understand completely, if it's something much
smaller than the raptor, like a finch, or maybe a mouse, squirrel, or
similar, many will bind on the target and simply keep squeezing until it
stops moving, then once they've got it squeezed to death (or at least
unconcious enough that it's not likely gonna vamoose as soon as the
raptor opens its claw to bite it) they'll put a strategically placed
"make sure it's dead" chomp on it, then start munching. Not all that
much different from a boa constrictor in method, even though the
mechanism differs. But not quite as long, with bigger wings, and
feathers, of course. :)
Now for bigger stuff (rabbit and up, ducks, geese, etc, where body mass
of prey versus body mass of raptor is more or less even, or perhaps even
in the prey's favor) they tend to latch on *HARD* with talons somewhere
along the target's spine, puncturing as much as possible (and often
"kneading" the target to do even more damage, if birders' logbooks I've
read are any indication), then chew through the base of the skull/top of
the neck to sever the spinal column to complete the kill. Depending on
the relative sizes of raptor and target, "chew" might mean one almighty
"chomp" and the head falls off, or a series of bites that "works its way
down" to the spinal column before actually cutting it. Which is probably
the method you're "used to", or at least "expect" to see from a raptor.
Sunworshipper
No no no, that little red head bitch place ! Horse meat around 1980
south Texas.
For realski , I should sue them for a life time of that thought !
Really, I've eaten many many times across the boarder and it doesn't
bother me as long as it is cooked well enough. We use to eat at places
with smoked dogs in those cotton nets like someplace with fine sausage
from Germany, but being able to see the shape of the animal.
I just don't like eating at a franchise in the USA and getting ripped
off big time .
Bet they tried everything to bury that story , check it out if ya
don't believe me. No need to report back.
Got some better bad cop stories. Never could figure out that good cop
bad cop business , aren't they all bad? I'm sure there are *some*
half ass honest ones, somewhere...
I heard from a very reliable source that one asian restaurant , would
scoop up the rice out of the drain from cleaning dishes and putting it
into being refried refried refried ...rice.
Never (ever) send your food back no matter where you are.
Asso, I see trouble ahead in your fortune cookie. Until you've seen
chicken foot gnawing or better I guess its all down hill.
OP , the wife just gets more when the neighbor is thought to have axed
one, it's really hard to keep the cool cats inside no matter how much
you try. There are cat haters and lovers and there is me who really
could care less one way or another.
Ed Huntress
news:s60641peqqr03smvh...@4ax.com...
Yeah, that's an interesting story. We think of falcons "stooping," which
means diving at flying prey and knocking it out of the air (and often
killing it in the process), but they actually do most of their hunting like
goshawks, swooping upon prey on the ground, or chasing it down. The little
Kestrels, particularly, catch most of their grasshoppers and mice on the
ground. I've only seen them stoop on small birds a couple of times, when I
lived among a lot of them around 25 years ago.
--
Ed Huntress
Sunworshipper
I had a very cool shot of a coyote just so in the middle of pure
unbelievable expansion of human intervention and the camera got ripped
off !
Only thing I can hope for is they developed the film and some one saw
(or will see) it.
Probably ripped (exposed) right into the SUN light.
jim rozen
>... but they actually do most of their hunting like
>goshawks, swooping upon prey on the ground, or chasing it down.
That's how they get hit, alongside the taconic parkway. Once
they've snagged something they don't always watch on the climb
out.
I've swear I've seen one lifting off from the roadside with
a poodle-sized bundle in the talons.
Ed Huntress
news:d202n...@drn.newsguy.com...
> In article <YHJ0e.7786$SN6....@fe10.lga>, Ed Huntress says...
>
> >... but they actually do most of their hunting like
> >goshawks, swooping upon prey on the ground, or chasing it down.
>
> That's how they get hit, alongside the taconic parkway. Once
> they've snagged something they don't always watch on the climb
> out.
>
> I've swear I've seen one lifting off from the roadside with
> a poodle-sized bundle in the talons.
Heh, I've never noticed them being hit, but I've seen red-tails fly along
just off the ground with their prey for a long distance. The sharp-shinned
that hangs out in my neighborhood does that, too, with baby squirrels and
mice.
That is one eerie hawk, BTW. He swoops in, dead silent, like a ghost.
Sometimes you wonder if you actually saw him. Then he appears sitting on the
lowest branches of a tree, looking around.
--
Ed Huntress
jim rozen
>> I've swear I've seen one lifting off from the roadside with
>> a poodle-sized bundle in the talons.
>
>Heh, I've never noticed them being hit, but I've seen red-tails fly along
>just off the ground with their prey for a long distance. The sharp-shinned
>that hangs out in my neighborhood does that, too, with baby squirrels and
>mice.
They have a couple of animals for display purposes at Teatown Reservation,
near here - ones that have been dinged by cars on the parkway, and
cannot be released back into the wild. Apparently that's a common
failure mode, they're quite alert when coming *in* on the prey, but
once they score, their focus kind of narrows down and often will
fly down low across the roadway and get hit by a car.
Jim Stewart
> I had a very cool shot of a coyote just so in the middle of pure
> unbelievable expansion of human intervention and the camera got ripped
> off !
While watching the greenbelt path behind
my house I've seen a coyote 'cloak' by
stepping behind a bush as people pass.
The people passed by no further than five
feet from the coyote.
As to pictures, I can get all the coyote
shots I want. What I've had problems getting
is some good pictures of the burrowing owls.
They let you walk by them as close as 15-20
feet, but stop and point a lens at them and
they are gone immmediately. That, on top
of the fact that they are most active after
sunset makes it real hard to get a good picture.
Gunner
wrote:
>In article <p4N0e.7834$ry2....@fe10.lga>, Ed Huntress says...
>
>>> I've swear I've seen one lifting off from the roadside with
>>> a poodle-sized bundle in the talons.
>>
>>Heh, I've never noticed them being hit, but I've seen red-tails fly along
>>just off the ground with their prey for a long distance. The sharp-shinned
>>that hangs out in my neighborhood does that, too, with baby squirrels and
>>mice.
>
>They have a couple of animals for display purposes at Teatown Reservation,
>near here - ones that have been dinged by cars on the parkway, and
>cannot be released back into the wild. Apparently that's a common
>failure mode, they're quite alert when coming *in* on the prey, but
>once they score, their focus kind of narrows down and often will
>fly down low across the roadway and get hit by a car.
>
>Jim
If one is ever in the Bakersfield California area, the California
Living Museum may be of interest.
http://www.artcom.com/Museums/newones/93306.htm
Lots of local animals, the raptors and reptiles, mammals and whatnot
found in the high desert. Many of which were injured and brought there
to live
Larry Jaques
<hunt...@optonline.net> spake:
>"jim rozen" <jim_m...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
>news:d202n...@drn.newsguy.com...
>> In article <YHJ0e.7786$SN6....@fe10.lga>, Ed Huntress says...
>>
>> >... but they actually do most of their hunting like
>> >goshawks, swooping upon prey on the ground, or chasing it down.
>>
>> That's how they get hit, alongside the taconic parkway. Once
>> they've snagged something they don't always watch on the climb
>> out.
>>
>> I've swear I've seen one lifting off from the roadside with
>> a poodle-sized bundle in the talons.
One fewer barker? This is a Good Thing(tm). <g>
>Heh, I've never noticed them being hit, but I've seen red-tails fly along
>just off the ground with their prey for a long distance. The sharp-shinned
>that hangs out in my neighborhood does that, too, with baby squirrels and
>mice.
>
>That is one eerie hawk, BTW. He swoops in, dead silent, like a ghost.
>Sometimes you wonder if you actually saw him. Then he appears sitting on the
>lowest branches of a tree, looking around.
I love birds of prey and used to make the rounds at the Sandy Eggo
Wild Animal Park as often as possible. They had a bird show called
Hawk Talk where you could see (up CLOSE, and sometimes pet) owls and
hawks. Of all the things I left in California, there is no doubt in my
mind that I miss that place the most. I had a Zoological Society pass
from '98 to '02, when I left. Once you go there, you'll never look at
another zoo in the same light.
Visitors to SoCal: GO THERE!
----------------------------------------------------
Thesaurus: Ancient reptile with excellent vocabulary
http://diversify.com Dynamic Website Applications
====================================================
Cydrome Leader
> In article <kmK%d.523$L81...@fe11.lga>, Ed Huntress says...
>
>>> How come it's aways a Chinese restaurant in
>>> these stories?
>>
>>That's a good question. This is a true story, BTW.
>
> My friend in high school lived next to a very good
> Chinese resturant. His brother did find cat heads
> in the trash there once.
That's about as strange a your friend digging in restaurant trash.
jim rozen
>> My friend in high school lived next to a very good
>> Chinese resturant. His brother did find cat heads
>> in the trash there once.
>
>That's about as strange a your friend digging in restaurant trash.
My friend's *brother*. Get it straight if you're going to
gripe.
Apparently you've forgotten what it's like to be a pre-teenage
boy.
Ed Huntress
> In article <d3q4us$diq$2...@reader1.panix.com>, Cydrome Leader says...
>
> >> My friend in high school lived next to a very good
> >> Chinese resturant. His brother did find cat heads
> >> in the trash there once.
> >
> >That's about as strange a your friend digging in restaurant trash.
>
> My friend's *brother*. Get it straight if you're going to
> gripe.
>
> Apparently you've forgotten what it's like to be a pre-teenage
> boy.
>
> Jim
Not only that, but a couple of hours spent on misc.survivalist.nutbags would
uncover an entire subculture in this country that would be completely
unsurprised to hear about people scrounging such sources for the makings for
some fresh head cheese.
--
Ed Huntress
Don Bruder
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
Or just "tonight's dinner"...
And why not eat something out of a dumpster if it's
intact/clean/otherwise acceptable? Stores throw away ridiculous
quantities of perfectly good food every day of the week, simply because
the label says it's "outdated". Never mind that it's an item that stays
good for literally years - The label says it's outdated, so we gotta
throw it away.
Ed Huntress
news:0Ha8e.14922$m31.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
> In article <JL88e.1688$V02...@fe08.lga>,
> "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> > "jim rozen" <jim_m...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
> > news:d3r37...@drn.newsguy.com...
> > > In article <d3q4us$diq$2...@reader1.panix.com>, Cydrome Leader says...
> > >
> > > >> My friend in high school lived next to a very good
> > > >> Chinese resturant. His brother did find cat heads
> > > >> in the trash there once.
> > > >
> > > >That's about as strange a your friend digging in restaurant trash.
> > >
> > > My friend's *brother*. Get it straight if you're going to
> > > gripe.
> > >
> > > Apparently you've forgotten what it's like to be a pre-teenage
> > > boy.
> > >
> > > Jim
> >
> > Not only that, but a couple of hours spent on misc.survivalist.nutbags
would
> > uncover an entire subculture in this country that would be completely
> > unsurprised to hear about people scrounging such sources for the makings
for
> > some fresh head cheese.
>
> Or just "tonight's dinner"...
>
> And why not eat something out of a dumpster if it's
> intact/clean/otherwise acceptable?
For the same reason you don't shit in a storm sewer or drink from mud
puddles. You probably could get away with either, but you never know, and
it's embarrassing as hell if you get caught and have to explain yourself.
> Stores throw away ridiculous
> quantities of perfectly good food every day of the week, simply because
> the label says it's "outdated". Never mind that it's an item that stays
> good for literally years - The label says it's outdated, so we gotta
> throw it away.
Yes, they do. Even worse, there are tens of thousands of people going hungry
in this country, and our public parks, at least here in the northeast, are
LOADED with hundreds of thousands of perfectly good, nutritious, and
absolutely delicious overly domesticated Canada geese that you could grab
and strangle after dark with no trouble at all. And, unlike the trash-can
and dumpster-diving way of gathering your food, you at least know where
these geese have been. <uurrp. . .>
--
Ed Huntress
Don Bruder
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
Only a dumbfuck (sounds like you just MIGHT be in that category, what
with your snotty response, Ed.) is going to "eat shit in a storm sewer",
but I've drank from many a mud puddle many times in my life. (The key is
let it settle for a bit or strain it through a wadded up sweatshirt to
get rid of the grit - If it's in full sun, it's *HIGHLY* unlikely to
present a microbial threat, and unless you're in an industrial waste
dump, pollutants are likely a non-issue)
As far as embarrassment or explaining, there is none. Some gloating at
times, perhaps - Hah! Look at this! A case of $2.49/pt strawberries with
one of the pint baskets crushed into "no longer pretty enough to sell",
and the rest of the case untouched. SNATCH! Half a case of "outdated"
kraft macaroni and cheese, intact and soon-to-be delicious. Mmmm! A
bundle of carrots, complete with greens. Eww... One's got a squishy
spot. No biggie... <plonk> Back into the dumpster with that one. The
rest into the bag. 17 cans of creamed corn, outdated, and two of them
obviously dropped, but otherwise intact. SNARF! What's "Auebulita"? Some
kind of mexican chocolate? OK, I'll take a couple packages of that half
case or so of it, just to see what it's all about. Dang! Sticker says
the stuff costs 7 bucks a package? Must be good! We'll find out. And
those two cans of pork and beans ought to go down real nice - Wonder why
they're here? No dents... no bulges... labels intact... "Best Before"
date still 8 months in the future... <shrug> I ain't gonna argue... into
the bag with 'em! YOWZA! JACKPOT!!!! 15 cans of outdated StarKist Tuna
in spring water!!! Wooohooo!!!! We've got *GOOD* eatin' going on tonight!
Y'see, Ed, for those not as prissy as you, "Dumpster diving" is a
recognized "sport" that can be anywhere from a very good subsistence
living, to a profit-making enterprise, depending on various factors. And
I *WELCOME* your "scorn" - It means you aren't out there competing with
me for the best stuff.
> > Stores throw away ridiculous
> > quantities of perfectly good food every day of the week, simply because
> > the label says it's "outdated". Never mind that it's an item that stays
> > good for literally years - The label says it's outdated, so we gotta
> > throw it away.
>
> Yes, they do. Even worse, there are tens of thousands of people going hungry
> in this country, and our public parks, at least here in the northeast, are
> LOADED with hundreds of thousands of perfectly good, nutritious, and
> absolutely delicious overly domesticated Canada geese that you could grab
> and strangle after dark with no trouble at all. And, unlike the trash-can
> and dumpster-diving way of gathering your food, you at least know where
> these geese have been. <uurrp. . .>
I can tell from your prima-donna response that you've never been faced
with the reality of being truly hungry, Ed. May your luck forever remain
so good. For those of us who have had to face the choice of eating
something that would make a billy goat puke or going hungry, it's a
no-brainer. Obviously, though, you're better than us. But as I said, I'm
glad you're such a prissy little piece of shit - You're not competing
with me for the good stuff that can be had for the taking.
Ed Huntress
You misread the sentence, Don. That's shit in a storm sewer, drink from a
mud puddle. You shouldn't do both in the same place.
> but I've drank from many a mud puddle many times in my life.
I'll bet that was you that I saw bent over a ditch one day. Do you wear a
wide-brimmed straw hat?
Here's a helpful hint: Wear knee pads.
> (The key is
> let it settle for a bit or strain it through a wadded up sweatshirt to
> get rid of the grit - If it's in full sun, it's *HIGHLY* unlikely to
> present a microbial threat, and unless you're in an industrial waste
> dump, pollutants are likely a non-issue)
We'll see if we can get *that* helpful hint into the next Boy Scout
Handbook.
It IS an idea for a new way to market those expensive little bottles of
water. "VitaSurviva -- It's the one with the oil film on top and the mud on
the bottom."
The tagline is "Survive THIS!"
>
> As far as embarrassment or explaining, there is none.
I had a feeling you were going to say that. It's hard to look dignified when
your feet are sticking up out of a dumpster and your head is in the bottom,
but some of us are just less concerned about how that looks on the front
page of the local paper.
> Some gloating at
> times, perhaps - Hah! Look at this! A case of $2.49/pt strawberries with
> one of the pint baskets crushed into "no longer pretty enough to sell",
> and the rest of the case untouched.
Not to mention the gloating when you peel a flattened 'possum off the
highway, and wave it like a flag at all of the dumb people who passed it by!
> SNATCH! Half a case of "outdated"
> kraft macaroni and cheese, intact and soon-to-be delicious. Mmmm!
You can dry it and make something like pemmican out of it, you know. Just
boil it for two or three hours and then spread it out on a rock. When it
firms up, slice it into 1/4" slices and hang it on a clothesline until it
gets good and hard. It's light for travelling, it's loaded with calories,
and it's Sooooo good...
> A
> bundle of carrots, complete with greens. Eww... One's got a squishy
> spot. No biggie... <plonk> Back into the dumpster with that one. The
> rest into the bag. 17 cans of creamed corn, outdated, and two of them
> obviously dropped, but otherwise intact. SNARF! What's "Auebulita"? Some
> kind of mexican chocolate? OK, I'll take a couple packages of that half
> case or so of it, just to see what it's all about. Dang! Sticker says
> the stuff costs 7 bucks a package? Must be good! We'll find out. And
> those two cans of pork and beans ought to go down real nice - Wonder why
> they're here? No dents... no bulges... labels intact... "Best Before"
> date still 8 months in the future... <shrug> I ain't gonna argue... into
> the bag with 'em! YOWZA! JACKPOT!!!! 15 cans of outdated StarKist Tuna
> in spring water!!! Wooohooo!!!! We've got *GOOD* eatin' going on tonight!
You're an everyday gourmet, Don. What do you do with half-eaten sub
sanwiches? Fish heads?
>
> Y'see, Ed, for those not as prissy as you, "Dumpster diving" is a
> recognized "sport" that can be anywhere from a very good subsistence
> living, to a profit-making enterprise, depending on various factors.
Like, whether you live in a crack gallery or are incapable of getting a job.
> And
> I *WELCOME* your "scorn" - It means you aren't out there competing with
> me for the best stuff.
You show 'em, Don. I'll keep an eye out for your feet sticking out of the
dumpsters.
>
> I can tell from your prima-donna response that you've never been faced
> with the reality of being truly hungry, Ed.
And I can tell from your long-distance imaginings that you've never been
faced with the problem of having to think about what you're saying, Don.
> May your luck forever remain
> so good.
Thank you! I've always been flexible about the kind of work I'll do if I
have to. That's why I don't have to dive in dumpsters. I highly recommend
it, because there always are some jobs out there, if you aren't too dumb or
too egotistical to take them.
> Obviously, though, you're better than us. But as I said, I'm
> glad you're such a prissy little piece of shit - You're not competing
> with me for the good stuff that can be had for the taking.
Likewise, Don. I don't see many computer-competent people who dive for
garbage in the places I've had to apply for work. I think they'd stand out,
especially in a closed room with little ventilation.
--
Ed Huntress
Don Bruder
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
<snip the entire mess>
Y'know, Ed, I actually considered responding to this one in a somewhat
civilized, but then decided that the effort wuld be wasted on an asshole
like you.
Some of us actually have to face the real world and all its expenses. We
have to scrounge for everything we have, make do with second best, or
just plain do without altogether. Others, yourself obviously being one
of them, get everything they want handed to them for the asking, and
have no appreciation for being "the fortunate son".
Well, Ed, fuck you and your pompous bullshit and your attitude to those
less fortunate than yourself. I imagine you're one of the shitheads that
kicks the homeless guy on the corner on your way to your fancy
apartment, too. If there's any justice in the world, you, and anyone
like you, will be brought just as low as that poor bastard on the corner
so you can know first-hand exactly what it's like to have to scrape by
on whatever can be had. And the "fun" of doing without when there isn't
anything, even garbage, to eat.
Y'see, Ed, not everybody "poor" is there by choice. And despite your
saying so, living at or below the poverty line doesn't imply that
someone is a crackhead, a burnout, lazy, unintelligent, or anything else
other than "doesn't have much if any money". For the record, I'm
computer qualified - I can operate on all of the "big three" OSes,
program in several languages, use most commercial software packages with
at least reasonable competence, and even go inside the box with a
soldering iron if needed to fix hardware problems. I've been working
with computers and electronics since I was 9, and have more self-taught
experience and knowledge than many degreed and certified people out
there making "the big bucks". The difference between me and them? I
don't have the piece of paper that says so, and I can't afford to take
the time from scraping enough food together to feed me for another day
or the money it would take to GET that piece of paper to make my
knowledge "official". Without that all-powerful piece of paper that
isn't even fit to use for wiping my ass, nobody will pay me to put my
knowledge to use for them.
Now, were I given thge backing of "Here's all your needs met,
concentrate on getting that piece of paper and when you do, you've got a
high-dollar job", I'd be rolling in clover. But I can't spend either the
time OR the money to get it because I'm too busy struggling for
day-to-day existence, thanks to assholes like you.
So, Ed, to you I offer a hearty "Until you come live in MY world for a
year, you and your attitude can go fuck yourself."
Ed Huntress
> In article <J4e8e.1961$ZQ1....@fe11.lga>,
> "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> <snip the entire mess>
>
> Y'know, Ed, I actually considered responding to this one in a somewhat
> civilized, but then decided that the effort wuld be wasted on an asshole
> like you.
You're the one who can program in multiple languages and go inside the box
with a soldering iron, Don, yet you justify scrounging your food out of
other peoples' garbage and make fun of them because they're so dumb. You say
you've drank "from many a mud puddle many times" in your life. What the hell
for? Who is the asshole here?
Something is very fishy about your alledged situation. You're computer
literate -- more than literate, by quite a lot -- you apparently have a
computer, you're articulate. . .and you scrounge out of garbage cans.
Either there's something screwy between your ears or you won't get a job
outside of your field. Is there some reason you're not fit for work?
How about driving a truck? You wouldn't have to scrounge anymore. Or is that
beneath you?
--
Ed Huntress
Don Bruder
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Don Bruder" <dak...@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:O9g8e.14946$m31.1...@typhoon.sonic.net...
> > In article <J4e8e.1961$ZQ1....@fe11.lga>,
> > "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >
> > <snip the entire mess>
> >
> > Y'know, Ed, I actually considered responding to this one in a somewhat
> > civilized, but then decided that the effort wuld be wasted on an asshole
> > like you.
>
> You're the one who can program in multiple languages and go inside the box
> with a soldering iron, Don, yet you justify scrounging your food out of
> other peoples' garbage and make fun of them because they're so dumb. You say
> you've drank "from many a mud puddle many times" in your life. What the hell
> for? Who is the asshole here?
>
> Something is very fishy about your alledged situation. You're computer
> literate -- more than literate, by quite a lot -- you apparently have a
> computer, you're articulate. . .and you scrounge out of garbage cans.
>
> Either there's something screwy between your ears or you won't get a job
> outside of your field. Is there some reason you're not fit for work?
>
> How about driving a truck? You wouldn't have to scrounge anymore. Or is that
> beneath you?
Hey Ed?
Go fuck yourself. You know NOTHING of me. But I know everything needed
about you: You're a holier-than-thou fuckhead who has been handed
everything in his life, and operates on the all-too popular "I've got
mine, so fuck you" principle, with no interest or concern for his fellow
man.
I'm amazed and awed, in a way - I've finally found someone who's more
uncaring, more self-centered, more hard-hearted than myself, more
self-assured, and a bigger asshole than I am. Helluva thought, ain't it
Ed? I used to think I was the biggest prick in the world. God knows I've
had enough people tell me so. But now that you and your shit comes
along, I see that I am, and always will be, at best, second banana to
you in the asshole department.
I thought *I* was a misanthrope, but you take the cake, buddy.
Begone from my sight. You disgust me.
Ed Huntress
Right. You seem awfully bitter about being disadvantaged in some way, Don.
But you have the tools. If you can dumpster-dive you need to be at least a
little physically fit. <g> And there is no problem with your ability to
articulate, nor, from what you say, do you suffer from stupidity.
Programming and hardware-level repair of computers is not something that the
mentally challenged generally do.
>
> I'm amazed and awed, in a way - I've finally found someone who's more
> uncaring, more self-centered, more hard-hearted than myself, more
> self-assured, and a bigger asshole than I am. Helluva thought, ain't it
> Ed? I used to think I was the biggest prick in the world. God knows I've
> had enough people tell me so.
Maybe that's the real job issue? If so, freelance at something from home.
Nobody cares if you're a prick then.
> But now that you and your shit comes
> along, I see that I am, and always will be, at best, second banana to
> you in the asshole department.
>
> I thought *I* was a misanthrope, but you take the cake, buddy.
Well, nobody I've worked with has ever told *me* I'm the biggest prick
they've ever met, so I can't really put myself in your shoes.
>
> Begone from my sight. You disgust me.
We're not likely to run into each other, Don.
--
Ed Huntress
Peter Fairbrother
> Either there's something screwy between your ears or you won't get a job
> outside of your field. Is there some reason you're not fit for work?
>
> How about driving a truck? You wouldn't have to scrounge anymore. Or is that
> beneath you?
I don't know you. I don't know him. I haven't been following this thread.
People scrounge for reasons that have nothing to do with their financial
reality or capability. Sometimes it's just for the gratification that the
giver cares enough to give, and that is more important than the given thing.
Sometimes it's for other reasons.
They are not mad - they just have a viewpoint that assigns scrounging in a
different place than most people do.
Been there. Done that. A girl immediately caused it, but was not responsible
for it. Also, it was sort of interesting.
Didn't like it after a while, or more, I learned to see the advantages of a
steady income etc. Hey, I am a genius after all. I was born that way, it
wasn't anything I did.
Strange thing, I met a lot of other geniuses (well, a few, but some were
distinctly cleverer than me, and it's kinda unusual for me to meet those
kinds ever, although it does happen, and especially surprising to meet them)
in the gutter.
-- Peter Fairbrother
Oh here we go slithering, here we go slithering and squelching on
Oh here we go slithering, here we go slithering and squelching on
May the long time sun shine upon you
All love surround you
And the pure light within you
Guide you all the way on.
Excerpts from "A Very Cellular Song" by Mike Heron
- You can sing both together, in harmony. :)
Ed Huntress
news:BE87815B.9B356%zenad...@zen.co.uk...
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>
> > Either there's something screwy between your ears or you won't get a job
> > outside of your field. Is there some reason you're not fit for work?
> >
> > How about driving a truck? You wouldn't have to scrounge anymore. Or is
that
> > beneath you?
>
> I don't know you. I don't know him. I haven't been following this thread.
>
>
> People scrounge for reasons that have nothing to do with their financial
> reality or capability.
But that isn't the case here, Peter. Don says he "had to face" eating other
peoples' garbage. There are enough safety nets around that an articulate,
computer-literate guy like Don doesn't *have to* eat other peoples' garbage.
That's a choice, not a necessity, unless he can't find his way to a soup
kitchen.
> Sometimes it's just for the gratification that the
> giver cares enough to give, and that is more important than the given
thing.
> Sometimes it's for other reasons.
I'm not following you but your first example doesn't sound like scrounging.
It sounds like accepting a handout, which many people *do* have to do at
some point in their lives. 'Nothing wrong with that. But drinking out of mud
puddles, even if they're filtered through a sweatshirt, as Don describes, is
evidence that something other than necessity is at work here.
As for "other reasons," I'd be interested to know how many are necessities,
and how many are absurdities or emotional problems.
>
> They are not mad - they just have a viewpoint that assigns scrounging in a
> different place than most people do.
That's a little abstract for my literal mind. You'd have to get specific
before I could understand what you're referring to.
The subject, BTW, was scrounging cat's heads out of the garbage at Chinese
restaurants. Are we on track here?
>
> Been there. Done that. A girl immediately caused it, but was not
responsible
> for it. Also, it was sort of interesting.
>
> Didn't like it after a while, or more, I learned to see the advantages of
a
> steady income etc. Hey, I am a genius after all. I was born that way, it
> wasn't anything I did.
>
> Strange thing, I met a lot of other geniuses (well, a few, but some were
> distinctly cleverer than me, and it's kinda unusual for me to meet those
> kinds ever, although it does happen, and especially surprising to meet
them)
> in the gutter.
Everybody has his cross to bear, Peter. Geniuses in the gutter are people in
trouble.
--
Ed Huntress
Peter Fairbrother
> Everybody has his cross to bear, Peter. Geniuses in the gutter are people in
> trouble.
or looking at the stars ...
jim rozen
>... Don says he "had to face" eating other
>peoples' garbage. There are enough safety nets around that an articulate,
>computer-literate guy like Don doesn't *have to* eat other peoples' garbage.
>That's a choice, not a necessity, unless he can't find his way to a soup
>kitchen.
Aside from Don's *ahem* remarkable people skills, he is correct on one
point. Around here there is a solid network of what might be called
'second hand food networks.' [1]
Basically, resturants take food that they would probably dumpster,
but is completely edible - and set it aside for pickup. Drivers
pick this up daily and bring it for sorting and re-distribution to
various charity kitchens. Apparently it makes a big difference.
Jim
[1] *Not* the kind of second-hand food that gets handled by those
big tanker trucks with the hoses wrapped around them.... :)
Ed Huntress
> In article <X_k8e.2089$ZQ1...@fe11.lga>, Ed Huntress says...
>
> >... Don says he "had to face" eating other
> >peoples' garbage. There are enough safety nets around that an articulate,
> >computer-literate guy like Don doesn't *have to* eat other peoples'
garbage.
> >That's a choice, not a necessity, unless he can't find his way to a soup
> >kitchen.
>
> Aside from Don's *ahem* remarkable people skills, he is correct on one
> point. Around here there is a solid network of what might be called
> 'second hand food networks.' [1]
>
> Basically, resturants take food that they would probably dumpster,
> but is completely edible - and set it aside for pickup. Drivers
> pick this up daily and bring it for sorting and re-distribution to
> various charity kitchens. Apparently it makes a big difference.
That isn't drinking out of mud puddles or dumpster-diving in the garbage.
That food has been handled with the understanding that it's going to be
eaten by people. In NJ, and probably in most other states, discarded food
that is garbage used to be collected and hauled to the hog farms.
--
Ed Huntress
(remove "3" from email address for email reply)
Gunner
Is everyone from New Jersey an arrogant elitist twit?
Never mind...I really dont want to know..the answer may be shattering.
Gunner
"The Democratic Party is the party of this popular corruption.
The heart of the Democratic Party and its activist core is
made up of government unions, government dependent professions
(teachers, social workers, civil servants); special interest and
special benefits groups (abortion rights, is a good example) that
feed off the government trough; and ethnic constituencies,
African Americans being the most prominent, who are
disproportionately invested in government jobs and
in programs that government provides.
" The Democratic Party credo is 'Take as much of the people's money as politically feasible, and use that money to buy as many of the people's votes as possible'.
Tax cuts are a threat to this Democratic agenda.
Consequently, Democrats loathe and despise them."
-Semi-reformed Leftist David Horowitz
Gunner
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> Obviously, though, you're better than us. But as I said, I'm
>> glad you're such a prissy little piece of shit - You're not competing
>> with me for the good stuff that can be had for the taking.
>
>Likewise, Don. I don't see many computer-competent people who dive for
>garbage in the places I've had to apply for work. I think they'd stand out,
>especially in a closed room with little ventilation.
>
>--
>Ed Huntress
>
A goodly percentage of the posters here are either logging onto the
internet or cutting metal with stuff they dumpster dived for.
And yes, Ive eaten out of dumpsters more than once..and was damned
happy to do so.
Gunner
Ive commented before on Eds occasional flashes of utter naivate. This
thread is a new one. And speaks volumes about his elitism and
arrogance. Unfortunately.
Shrug..Lets just hope its a New Joisey thing....
Btw...never eat the fish out of a dumpster. Tends to spoil much too
fast. Veggies are better as is the breads and meats cooked Well.
Ed Huntress
news:6oi561hmpb5vkves6...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:53:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
> <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Obviously, though, you're better than us. But as I said, I'm
> >> glad you're such a prissy little piece of shit - You're not competing
> >> with me for the good stuff that can be had for the taking.
> >
> >Likewise, Don. I don't see many computer-competent people who dive for
> >garbage in the places I've had to apply for work. I think they'd stand
out,
> >especially in a closed room with little ventilation.
> >
> >--
> >Ed Huntress
> >
>
>
> A goodly percentage of the posters here are either logging onto the
> internet or cutting metal with stuff they dumpster dived for.
But they aren't eating it, for chrissake.
>
> And yes, Ive eaten out of dumpsters more than once..and was damned
> happy to do so.
My momma told me never to eat out of dumpsters or garbage cans, because you
never know if the restaurant dumps the cat shit on the bottom, or on the
top. And they taught me in Boy Scouts not to drink out of mud puddles.
I know, it's an elitist thing. We don't eat other peoples' garbage.
--
Ed Huntress
Ed Huntress
> >
> >That isn't drinking out of mud puddles or dumpster-diving in the garbage.
> >That food has been handled with the understanding that it's going to be
> >eaten by people. In NJ, and probably in most other states, discarded food
> >that is garbage used to be collected and hauled to the hog farms.
>
> Ive commented before on Eds occasional flashes of utter naivate. This
> thread is a new one. And speaks volumes about his elitism and
> arrogance. Unfortunately.
You've got it, Gunner. I'm part of the Non-Garbage-Eating Elite. We're a
small group, maybe 290,000,000 or so in the US, and you can't become a
member if you eat other people's garbage out of dumpsters.
>
> Btw...never eat the fish out of a dumpster. Tends to spoil much too
> fast. Veggies are better as is the breads and meats cooked Well.
I'll take your word for it. Do you soak it all in Clorox, or do you just
scrape the cat shit off first?
--
Ed Huntress
Gunner
<hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>news:5ti561t26rn73chtv...@4ax.com...
>> >
>> >That isn't drinking out of mud puddles or dumpster-diving in the garbage.
>> >That food has been handled with the understanding that it's going to be
>> >eaten by people. In NJ, and probably in most other states, discarded food
>> >that is garbage used to be collected and hauled to the hog farms.
>>
>> Ive commented before on Eds occasional flashes of utter naivate. This
>> thread is a new one. And speaks volumes about his elitism and
>> arrogance. Unfortunately.
>
>You've got it, Gunner. I'm part of the Non-Garbage-Eating Elite. We're a
>small group, maybe 290,000,000 or so in the US, and you can't become a
>member if you eat other people's garbage out of dumpsters.
There are lots of folks who have eaten out of a dumpster on occasion,
during bad times in their lives. Folks who today are very well off.
Im surprised you are not aware of this fact.
>
>>
>> Btw...never eat the fish out of a dumpster. Tends to spoil much too
>> fast. Veggies are better as is the breads and meats cooked Well.
>
>I'll take your word for it. Do you soak it all in Clorox, or do you just
>scrape the cat shit off first?
Cat shit in resturant dumpsters? Is this a New Jersey thing?
I can understand the reference to Clorex in NJ...a bit of clorine is
the least of your problems..but cat shit?
Gunner
"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child -
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats." -- P.J. O'Rourke
Gunner
Good on you, Mate. I guess you were never starving.
Ed Huntress
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:00:20 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
> <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >"Gunner" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
> >news:5ti561t26rn73chtv...@4ax.com...
> >> >
> >> >That isn't drinking out of mud puddles or dumpster-diving in the
garbage.
> >> >That food has been handled with the understanding that it's going to
be
> >> >eaten by people. In NJ, and probably in most other states, discarded
food
> >> >that is garbage used to be collected and hauled to the hog farms.
> >>
> >> Ive commented before on Eds occasional flashes of utter naivate. This
> >> thread is a new one. And speaks volumes about his elitism and
> >> arrogance. Unfortunately.
> >
> >You've got it, Gunner. I'm part of the Non-Garbage-Eating Elite. We're a
> >small group, maybe 290,000,000 or so in the US, and you can't become a
> >member if you eat other people's garbage out of dumpsters.
>
> There are lots of folks who have eaten out of a dumpster on occasion,
> during bad times in their lives. Folks who today are very well off.
> Im surprised you are not aware of this fact.
Eating garbage out of dumpsters and then winding up "very well off" is not
something I've come across. Maybe it's a red-state thing.
> >
> >>
> >> Btw...never eat the fish out of a dumpster. Tends to spoil much too
> >> fast. Veggies are better as is the breads and meats cooked Well.
> >
> >I'll take your word for it. Do you soak it all in Clorox, or do you just
> >scrape the cat shit off first?
>
> Cat shit in resturant dumpsters? Is this a New Jersey thing?
> I can understand the reference to Clorex in NJ...a bit of clorine is
> the least of your problems..but cat shit?
Restaurant garbage cans are pretty much the same all over. Maybe you've just
gotten used to the taste and don't notice it anymore. d8-)
--
Ed Huntress