penetrating oil - a report
Grant Erwin
but outdoors for several years in Eastern Washington, a place that gets
hot and dry in the summer and cold and snowy in the winter. It was't 100%
frozen, but very close. This chain is essential to the machine - an
integral part of the setup for ferrous cutting - and I decided to try
the latest thing in penetrating oil. I took a coffee can and put about 5/8"
of automatic transmission fluid in, and matched that amount (roughly) with
acetone, and submerged the chain and left it overnight. The next day it
was better, still unmovable in several spots, so back in it went. The
next day (today) it's nearly all broken free. Most of it is swinging
loose like a new chain. I'm guessing that by tomorrow it will do the
trick.
I read about this in a recent "Machinist's Workshop" article. Says this
stuff works better than Kroil, P.B. Blaster, Liquid Wrench, or any other,
and for a tiny fraction of the cost per unit volume. I can't verify that
it works better, but I'm sure glad I didn't have to come up with about 2
cups of Kroil for a one-off job like this!
Grant Erwin
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
clu...@lycos.com
>I read about this in a recent "Machinist's Workshop" article. Says this
>stuff works better than Kroil, P.B. Blaster, Liquid Wrench, or any other,
>and for a tiny fraction of the cost per unit volume. I can't verify that
>it works better, but I'm sure glad I didn't have to come up with about 2
>cups of Kroil for a one-off job like this!
I'm not suprized it worked so well. You had two of the ingredients of
"Ed's Red", a diy bore cleaner.
http://www.building-tux.com/dsmjd/tech/eds_red.htm
Wes
Stupendous Man
>I picked up this double roller chain the other day. It had sat undercover
> but outdoors for several years in Eastern Washington, a place that gets
> hot and dry in the summer and cold and snowy in the winter. It was't 100%
> frozen, but very close. This chain is essential to the machine - an
> integral part of the setup for ferrous cutting -
As a motorcyclist I think of chains as consumable items, having seen severe
injuries caused by failures.
I would check it for slack after an hour, and check it fairly often and lube
it with a good motorcycle chain lube, but consider replacement.
--
Stupendous Man
Defender of Liberty, Advocate of Justice
Jon Elson
like "We used to have to burn the 1-3/4" nuts off the punch
press, but after one squirt of Kroil, we could take them off
with our fingers?"
Jon
Richard J Kinch
> Much safer and more inexpensive are "aliphatic mineral spirits," which
> are an open-chain organic solvent, rather than the closed-chain, benzene
> ring structure, commontructure, common to "aromatics," such as naptha or
> "lighter fluid." Sometimes called "safety solvent," aliphatic mineral
> spirits are used for thinning oil based paint, as automotive parts
> cleaner and is commonly sold under the names "odorless mineral spirits,"
> "Stoddard Solvent" or "Varsol".
Whoever wrote this is quite confused about what terms like "aliphatic" and
"naptha" [sic] mean.
Proctologically Violated┊
"Grant Erwin" <gr...@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote in message
news:4626a6ed$0$16275$8826...@free.teranews.com...
Sheeeit, and after I just spent about $240 on shipments from g-d Kroil and
PB Blaster.
Kroil: $31/gal!!!!!
PB: $20/gal, but you gotta buy 4, but they also give you spray bottles along
with it.
The Kroil peeple just give you a kick in the ass...
Kroil also drops mosquities and flies right outta the sky, bruhs, makes me
wonder what's in it.
Why I spent so much, I don't know--musta been some kind of assaholic attack.
But it's time to do some Grant-style experimentation.
Good info.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
Richard J Kinch
> Kroil also drops mosquities and flies right outta the sky, bruhs,
> makes me wonder what's in it.
Mostly light petroleum distillates, like kerosene.
https://secure.cnchost.com/kanolabs.com/msds_pdf/Kroil_Liquid.pdf
(Sorry to offend the religious sensibilities of those who are true
believers.)
Don Foreman
Do you select your Scotch whiskey based only on the MSDS and price?
ATF + acetone and Ed's Red do work quite well, but Kroil (whatever it
is) really is rather amazing stuff at times.
Richard J Kinch
> Do you select your Scotch whiskey based only on the MSDS and price?
Yes. (If the application is killing mosquitoes.)
Stealth Pilot
next time just half fill the tin with dieselene.
it will do the same thing.
Stealth Pilot
Proctologically Violated┊
But I vacillate in my preference.
Sometimes I think it has to do with my color preference of the month.
The rust-brown color of PB is not very "assuring", from a lube pov.
The red of Kroil is a little disconcerting at times--sometimes I check
myself for cuts. :)
But since I'm pissed at the Kroil company, and it's not mosquito season yet,
I'm a PB guy now.
Stealth Pilot referred to "dieselene"--does he mean just regular diesel?
And what's the diff between diesel and kerosene? And #2 oil, for that
matter? Carbon chain length? Branching? Additives?
**But I think the gist of Grant's post is profound** :
That is,
Eff these high-priced penetrants, and make yer own.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Kroil, PB et al are just the results of
kitchen/hardware store chemistry
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:b10e23h14lg9mlgo3...@4ax.com...
spamT...@yahoo.com
>
> news:b10e23h14lg9mlgo3...@4ax.com...
>
> > On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:57:01 -0500, Richard J Kinch
> > <k...@truetex.com> wrote:
>
> >>Proctologically Violated©® writes:
>
> >>> Kroil also drops mosquities and flies right outta the sky, bruhs,
> >>> makes me wonder what's in it.
>
> >>Mostly light petroleum distillates, like kerosene.
>
> >>https://secure.cnchost.com/kanolabs.com/msds_pdf/Kroil_Liquid.pdf
>
> >>(Sorry to offend the religious sensibilities of those who are true
> >>believers.)
>
> > Do you select your Scotch whiskey based only on the MSDS and price?
>
> > ATF + acetone and Ed's Red do work quite well, but Kroil (whatever it
> > is) really is rather amazing stuff at times.
According to:
http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/010407.html
its a gasoline-diesel mix.
Apparently its a common fuel in some parts of the world.
Dave
Grant Erwin
I might if I'd ever heard of the stuff. :-)
Seriously, the question would be why? I couldn't possibly save any money,
this was the tail end of an ancient bottle of ATF, probably from the '70s,
and a bit from a can of acetone which has sat on my shelf for years untouched.
GWE
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
"Grant Erwin" <gr...@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote in message
> I might if I'd ever heard of the stuff. :-)
> Seriously, the question would be why? I couldn't possibly save any money,
> this was the tail end of an ancient bottle of ATF, probably from the '70s,
> and a bit from a can of acetone which has sat on my shelf for years
> untouched.
Which makes its performance even more impressive, since the acetone was
_at_least_ 8% water by weight, by the time you used it.
Gotta try that mix....
LLoyd
clu...@lycos.com
JohnM
I've used a lot of combinations of stuff in the shop:automatic trans.
oil + acetone or brake fluid (both are good), two stroke fuel (good).
Cyclo brand Break Away is my favorite spray oil.
Used to have a friend who believed in WD-40. It's sort of like finding
out your friend is a Moonie or a Scientologist when you find out they
like WD-40..
John
clu...@lycos.com
>Used to have a friend who believed in WD-40. It's sort of like finding
>out your friend is a Moonie or a Scientologist when you find out they
>like WD-40..
I found something that WD-40 is good for. We have a technifor
dotmatix impact printer (prints on cast iron housing) that is
operating at limit of its range. Periodically a sprintz of wd40 in
air system lubes the valving enough to keep the thing printing evenly.
Wes
Newshound
<clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:132fg85...@corp.supernews.com...
I also find it good for sticky plastic curtain tracks (spray on a cloth or
tissue and wipe over the top, load bearing area).
Mark Rand
wrote:
If you didn't keep putting WD40 on them, they wouldn't get sticky ;-)
Mark Rand (I use Plus Gas in the UK.. seems to work)
RTFM
Grant Erwin
to 2 sticky links (had been at least 75% stuck) but the acetone level
needed replenishing. All the links have cracked loose but two are still
too tight to work by hand. Of course, in use they would likely loosen up.
The guy who posted about motorcycle chain is of course right on. However,
MC chain has to run in a dirt/water bath at high and varying speeds. A
chain in the final drive unit of a saw sees only relatively short periods
of use, so I'm hoping it would last longer. I may well replace my chain but
not until I know this saw is going to work for me, else it might be $$ down
the pipe.
GWE
Don Young
"Mark Rand" <ra...@internettie.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1mrf23t29gpldth0t...@4ax.com...
Don Young
JohnM
As long as it's not so damaged that it'll ruin the sprockets, I'd run
it. Naturally, if it's effectively stretched it'll ruin the sprockets
fairly soon.
Slap it against an oxygen cylinder or something similar, it'll limber
right up. Back and forth, so it bends both ways.
John
*
JohnM <eao...@cbpu.com> wrote in article
<46287304$0$30411$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com>...
>
> Slap it against an oxygen cylinder or something similar, it'll limber
> right up. Back and forth, so it bends both ways.
>
Geez!
Remind me to NEVER work in the same shop as you do.
Slapping a chain against a high-pressure tank.....developing stress risers,
etc.
Joe
[snip]
> Used to have a friend who believed in WD-40. It's sort of like finding
> out your friend is a Moonie or a Scientologist when you find out they
> like WD-40..
or duct tape... <g>
Joe
Bill
Just remember, If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least
find you handy.
Bill
Nick Mueller
>> Slap it against an oxygen cylinder or something similar, it'll limber
>> right up. Back and forth, so it bends both ways.
> Geez!
>
> Remind me to NEVER work in the same shop as you do.
>
> Slapping a chain against a high-pressure tank.....developing stress
> risers, etc.
But it *will* shake lose! <VEG>
Nick
best wire
And what is commontructure? common structure?
Nick Mueller
> We have a technifor
> dotmatix impact printer (prints on cast iron housing) that is
> operating at limit of its range. Periodically a sprintz of wd40 in
> air system lubes the valving enough to keep the thing printing evenly.
How about pneumatic oil? And an oiler in the air duct?
Nick
best wire
If you agitated the mixture priodically it would speed up the process
a great deal.
clu...@lycos.com
We have an engineer that is adamant that no oil be applied. He
doesn't have to support it though.
The big problem is that it is writing on a curved surface that
requires the stylus to extend between minimum and maximum limits of
the work zone. On a flat surface these things are fairly trouble
free.
Wes
Clark Magnuson
> Better than Kroil? The legendary stuff with those testimonials like "We
> used to have to burn the 1-3/4" nuts off the punch press, but after one
> squirt of Kroil, we could take them off with our fingers?"
>
> Jon
in 2007 I removed ~50 barrels from 1903 Turkish Mausers that were re
barreled in 1938.
The .98" x 12tpi threads were probably put on with 100 foot pounds and
grease, but 69 years later, the grease was replaced with rust, and 1000
foot pounds torque would not make them budge.
Putting a half dozen drops of Kroil on the receiver / barrel joint and
waiting a minute, the barrels would come off with less than 500 foot
pounds of torque.
Everyone I gave this demonstration became a first time Kroil buyer.
The trick to converting someone is not to show them, but get them to put
all their weight on the action wrench and then hit it with the sledge
hammer. I put on the Kroil, and then I let them try to loosen the
receiver. The threads loosening for them seems to form the salient
memory and Kroil brand loyalty.
And yes, I know this is not controlled science, but more of a magic trick.
JohnM
As does the cylinder rattling in the brackets on my welding truck, as
does a whole slug of 'em banging in the back of the delivery truck-
especially the ones on the outside, they bang against the rail.. golly,
they must be about ruined after an hour's ride downtown.
Have you ever worked at a place that handled these cylinders? I have,
and I assure you that a little chain-slapping is an exceedingly minor
effect compared to ordinary handling.
John
Stealth Pilot
<gr...@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote:
go down to your local service station with a mower fuel tin and put
some automotive diesel fuel in it. that is dieselene in civilised
countries.
I've even used it as cutting oil
soak something rusty in it and the rust gets disintegrated over time.
Stealth Pilot
Proctologically Violated┊
I thought WD-40 was for mixing with drinks--or straight up. :)
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"JohnM" <eao...@cbpu.com> wrote in message
news:4627b54d$0$25510$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
Gunner
<gr...@NOSPAMkirkland.net> wrote:
>I picked up this double roller chain the other day. It had sat undercover
>but outdoors for several years in Eastern Washington, a place that gets
>hot and dry in the summer and cold and snowy in the winter. It was't 100%
>frozen, but very close. This chain is essential to the machine - an
>integral part of the setup for ferrous cutting - and I decided to try
>the latest thing in penetrating oil. I took a coffee can and put about 5/8"
>of automatic transmission fluid in, and matched that amount (roughly) with
>acetone, and submerged the chain and left it overnight. The next day it
>was better, still unmovable in several spots, so back in it went. The
>next day (today) it's nearly all broken free. Most of it is swinging
>loose like a new chain. I'm guessing that by tomorrow it will do the
>trick.
>
>I read about this in a recent "Machinist's Workshop" article. Says this
>stuff works better than Kroil, P.B. Blaster, Liquid Wrench, or any other,
>and for a tiny fraction of the cost per unit volume. I can't verify that
>it works better, but I'm sure glad I didn't have to come up with about 2
>cups of Kroil for a one-off job like this!
>
>Grant Erwin
http://www.building-tux.com/dsmjd/tech/eds_red.htm
Sound familiar?
Gunner
"I don't want to abolish government.
I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can
drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
-- Grover Norquist
*
JohnM <eao...@cbpu.com> wrote in article
<4629cfe2$0$30411$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com>...
Do you even understand what a stress riser is?
Cylinders banging against each other do not create stress risers.
Sharp objects leaving nicks in tanks DO!
JohnM
Yes, I know what a stress riser is.
And my examples contained more than just cylinders banging against each
other.
Shit, what do the people who change the valves use to hold the cylinder
still? No stress risers there? Especially if a little something gets
between the clamp and cylinder? Coil chain that secures a cylinder,
pinch it between the cylinder and something solid and get no stress
riser? Tip the thing over and it lands on a wrench.. whoops, another one
bites the dust.
Anyway, I don't mean to be rude about it.. Yes, you can damage a
cylinder, but if you go back to the original post and remember the
question concerns a double roller chain that fits into a coffee can with
less than an inch and a half of oil in it.. Someone's going to have to
be a bit of a maniac to inflict hazardous stress risers on their oxygen
cylinder by limbering this chain up on it.
John
Mike
>Anyway, I don't mean to be rude about it.. Yes, you can damage a
>cylinder, but if you go back to the original post and remember the
>question concerns a double roller chain that fits into a coffee can with
> less than an inch and a half of oil in it.
Oil?
> Someone's going to have to
>be a bit of a maniac to inflict hazardous stress risers on their oxygen
>cylinder by limbering this chain up on it.
Oxygen?
Oil and Oxygen don't mix :)
--
Grant Erwin
>
> Yes, I know what a stress riser is.
>
> And my examples contained more than just cylinders banging against each
> other.
>
> Shit, what do the people who change the valves use to hold the cylinder
> still? No stress risers there? Especially if a little something gets
> between the clamp and cylinder? Coil chain that secures a cylinder,
> pinch it between the cylinder and something solid and get no stress
> riser? Tip the thing over and it lands on a wrench.. whoops, another one
> bites the dust.
>
> Anyway, I don't mean to be rude about it.. Yes, you can damage a
> cylinder, but if you go back to the original post and remember the
> question concerns a double roller chain that fits into a coffee can with
> less than an inch and a half of oil in it.. Someone's going to have to
> be a bit of a maniac to inflict hazardous stress risers on their oxygen
> cylinder by limbering this chain up on it.
>
> John
High pressure cylinders are made of steel that is approximately 3/8" thick.
Anyone who thinks they can seriously hurt one by rapping it with a one-pound
chain should try it sometime.
DoN. Nichols
Sure they do -- all too eagerly. :-) That is the *problem*.
But here the oil is on the outside of the tank, and the oxygen
(at least the high pressure oxygen) is on the inside, with a good chunk
of steel between them. :-)
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
*
JohnM <eao...@cbpu.com> wrote in article
<462db7eb$0$30274$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com>...
I just don't believe that it's good practice to use things such as
high-pressure storage tanks as tools......that's all.
Why not tap out a curved piece of sheet metal on an o2 tank?
How about a piece of 3/8" rod?
How about a foot-long piece of 11 guage?
Where does one draw the line?
Or would it be better to simply NEVER use a high-pressure tank as an
anvil/tool in the first place?
Nick Mueller
> I took a coffee can and put about 5/8"
> of automatic transmission fluid in, and matched that amount (roughly) with
> acetone
Thanks for that tip! I passed it to a friend who had to repair his car but
didn't get lose a screw. Well, the head went lose, verrry lose! :-)
Mixed him the recipe and two days later, he could screw out the bolt with
his bare hands!
Great stuff, great tip!
Nick