Stuck lathe chuck
cod...@power.co.za
allan.s...@mci.com wrote:
>Help, I have a old Atlas 10" and the 3 jaw is really on tight, any
>suggestions as to how to remove it. It is threaded in the spindle.
>Thanks
>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
You Might try the following
1.Very thin Penatrating oil applied to the spindle nose (Liberally)
and left overnight
2 .Light Taps with a hammer via An alluminium or lead drift (Better
than Brass- Brass Work hardens and can Mark Steel!) Take the jaws out
and tap on the periphery of the chuck at one of the slots. (Lock the
Spindle by means of the back gear) Be carefull not to over do the
hammer bit or you may damage the gears.
3. Warm the chuck with a heat gun verry gently - you want to get it so
as it is just uncomfortable to Hold - any hotter and you may start to
damage something- this will take at least 1/2 an hour to get it right
Good Luck
John Spargo
allan.s...@mci.com
Roger M Weppelman
allan.s...@mci.com wrote:
>Help, I have a old Atlas 10" and the 3 jaw is really on tight, any
>suggestions as to how to remove it.
Lock the spindle by engaging the back gear. Chuck up a piece of scrap (the bigger
the better) as tightly as possible. Place a pipe wrench (the bigger the better) on
the scrap, right against the chuck's jaws. Pull down with all your weight and
strength. This technique has never failed me with my Atlas 12 inch. One Caution:
Protect the ways (and your knuckles!); when the chuck breaks loose, the wrench will
come down hard and fast.
Roger Weppelman
altavoz
Static methods dont work as well as dynamic.
250 to 450 lb/ft impact wrenches will get
it off with less damage than 2 wrenches .The
big problem is you cant get a good mass
on the spindle ( the chuck allready is
a large "counter" mass). Even impacting the
left end of the spindle has it's problems
cause the spindle well flex too much between
the air wrench and the chuck on the other end.
A 4x air chisel/air hammer is just as good as
an impact wrench if you know where to apply it.
It's the "rattling" of the impact wrench that
gets thing loose with less damage .
My Jap truck has a PLASTIC carb ! And i tried
to loosen some steel screws in the plastic body
and twisted them off but when i used a butterfly
3/8" impact , the others came out !
Sorry didnt have a perfect answer for you but at
least the theory is correct, Rattling at the proper
frequency is the best way . It uses the natural resonance
of the chuck/spindle .
Good luck .
BTW lighten the chuck as much as possible to make
it more nearly the same mass as the spindle .
______End of text from altavoz___________
Kevin Pinkerton
On Thu, 30 Jan 1997 08:59:12 -0600, allan.s...@mci.com wrote:
>Help, I have a old Atlas 10" and the 3 jaw is really on tight, any
>suggestions as to how to remove it. It is threaded in the spindle.
>Thanks
Not an expert, but I have found that wood blocks of various dimensions
stuck in various locations have worked for me. Try locking the spindle
gears somehow (maybe using the backgear nut) with a long piece of
firring strip, then take another firring strip or larger piece of wood
and chuck in in the chuck across the face of the chuck using the jaws
as leverage.
Kevin
Here also is a response you may not have seen (previous post he is
refering to is not this post)...
I have not yet seen the original post regarding the stuck chuck, but
to whoever was asking, please do not take the advise provided in the
post that I am replying to. I will not get into another argument with
Mr./Mrs./Ms. "a", but will be happy to make recommendations privately.
(I love a good battle of wits, but not against one who is so dimly
armed)
+--------------------------------------------+
| Scott Logan - s...@loganact.com |
| Logan Actuator Co. http://www.loganact.com |
+--------------------------------------------+
jr...@watson.ibm.com
In <8546351...@dejanews.com>, allan.s...@mci.com writes:
>Help, I have a old Atlas 10" and the 3 jaw is really on tight, any
>suggestions as to how to remove it. It is threaded in the spindle.
>Thanks
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Aside from the other methods being discussed:
Lock the back gears. Apply a large adjustable wrench to one jaw.
Attempt to remove chuck, but *do*not* hammer on the wrench.
You can strip the back gears.
If all else fails, backing plates are cheap. Remove the chuck from
the backplate, and machine the backplate off the spindle nose.
Do not cut into the spindle threads, obviously.
Best of luck - Jim
PS - Never run a chuck onto the spindle under power. That is most
likely the way yours got stuck, by the former owner.
Keith Krome
> Help, I have a old Atlas 10" and the 3 jaw is really on tight, any
> suggestions as to how to remove it. It is threaded in the spindle.
> Thanks
> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Well, I'm not familiar with the configuration of an atlas but I've done this:
1) unplug machine and put lathe in the lowest speed (use back gear)
2) put wooden block between lathe bed and one of the jaws such that it will
bind if reversed
3) turn the largest pulley by hand such that the spindle will turn in reverse.
by putting the lathe in the lowest gear (or speed) you get the highest
mechanical advantage. I've heard of people doing the above except they use
the motor to reverse the spindle. I would be afraid of doing damage if I
did that.
-keith
Paolo Zini
In article <8546351...@dejanews.com>, allan.s...@mci.com says:
>
>Help, I have a old Atlas 10" and the 3 jaw is really on tight, any
>suggestions as to how to remove it. It is threaded in the spindle.
>Thanks
>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
I have been forced to solve this problem because one of my chucks remain
usually stuck on the spindle, You can comment about the accuracy of
the surface and you are right. Not my fault, I have get this late used
for FREE (!) and it is a Myford.
My best suggestion is DISCARD HAMMER AND ANY IMPACT TOOL!
One of the gears of my lathe is broken just tanks to the hammer...
I use a pair of that chain tools used to remove cars oil filters.
i place one on the bull gear, the other on the backplate of the chuck.
It works for me, it is a cheap solution and save your chuck and spindle
from hidden damages (loss of trueness, bending, bearing damage) and from
visible damages, usually a broken tooth on one gear.
Hope this helps
Ciao
Paolo
_______
TTTTTTT
| | | |
===========
Paolo Zini TTTTTTTTT
CNUCE institute of CNR | | | | |
Pisa ITALY ===========
P.Z...@cnuce.cnr.it TTTTTTTTT
| | | | |
===========
TTTTTTTTT
| | | | |
===========
altavoz
Subject:
Re: Stuck lathe chuck
Date:
Fri, 31 Jan 1997 12:31:58 GMT
From:
s...@loganact.com (Scott Logan)
Organization:
Logan Actuator Co.
Newsgroups:
rec.crafts.metalworking
References:
1 , 2
I have not yet seen the original post regarding the stuck chuck, but
to whoever was asking, please do not take the advise provided in the
post that I am replying to. I will not get into another argument with
Mr./Mrs./Ms. "a", but will be happy to make recommendations privately.
(I love a good battle of wits, but not against one who is so dimly
armed)
+--------------------------------------------+
| Scott Logan - s...@loganact.com |
| Logan Actuator Co. http://www.loganact.com |
+--------------------------------------------+
FAQ - http://plains.uwyo.edu/%7Emetal/index.html
Metal Web News - http://www.ten.k12.tn.us/~wgray
"Measure Twice, Cut Once"
Altavoz : No guts . I challenge you to removing
metal things of all character and size , chucks
included .
You may have worked on machine tools for 100 years
but i have worked on machine tools, airplanes,
motorcycles, computers, 660 catapilar tractors
etc etc...
I'll bet your intellegence consists of memorizing
every part number of a Logan lathe .
Like i said , you dont have the guts to compete .
Wayne Cook
On Fri, 31 Jan 1997 21:46:55 -0600, kro...@auburn.campus.mci.net
(Keith Krome) wrote:
>In article <8546351...@dejanews.com>, allan.s...@mci.com wrote:
>
>> Help, I have a old Atlas 10" and the 3 jaw is really on tight, any
>> suggestions as to how to remove it. It is threaded in the spindle.
>> Thanks
>> -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
>> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
>
>Well, I'm not familiar with the configuration of an atlas but I've done this:
>
>1) unplug machine and put lathe in the lowest speed (use back gear)
>
>2) put wooden block between lathe bed and one of the jaws such that it will
>bind if reversed
>
>3) turn the largest pulley by hand such that the spindle will turn in reverse.
>
>by putting the lathe in the lowest gear (or speed) you get the highest
>mechanical advantage. I've heard of people doing the above except they use
>the motor to reverse the spindle. I would be afraid of doing damage if I
>did that.
>
>-keith
We take all the threaded chucks off at work in a similar way. We put
the lathe in a low range and find a block or bar for the chuck jaw to
hit. We then get a pry bar and using the jaws as a catch point for it
use the bar to move the chuck against the block. The momentum of the
gears in the headstock will usually cause the chuck to come loose.
Wayne Cook
Shamrock, Tx
Quality is like buying oats,
if you want nice, clean, fresh oats
you must pay a fair price.
However if you can be satisfied with
oats that have already been through the
horse...
That comes a little cheaper...
buffalo
Keith Krome wrote:
>
> In article <8546351...@dejanews.com>, allan.s...@mci.com wrote:
>
> > Help, I have a old Atlas 10" and the 3 jaw is really on tight, any
> > suggestions as to how to remove it. It is threaded in the spindle.
> > Thanks
> > -------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
>
> Well, I'm not familiar with the configuration of an atlas but I've done this:
>
> 1) unplug machine and put lathe in the lowest speed (use back gear)
>
> 2) put wooden block between lathe bed and one of the jaws such that it will
> bind if reversed
>
> 3) turn the largest pulley by hand such that the spindle will turn in reverse.
>
> by putting the lathe in the lowest gear (or speed) you get the highest
> mechanical advantage. I've heard of people doing the above except they use
> the motor to reverse the spindle. I would be afraid of doing damage if I
> did that.
>
> -keith
Put a bar between the jaws so that it sticks out to you. Close the jaws
so that the bar is caught between the jaw on top and two jaws on bottom.
With the spndle locked pull down on the bar or rap with a mallet to
loosen. this puts the force against the jaws. A bar held normally can
slip with a pipe wrench. the above method puts no undue strain on
anything
DENNIS
altavoz
Re: Stuck lathe chuck
30 Jan 1997 17:51:12 GMT
Roger M Weppelman <RMW...@ccmail.exe>
allan.s...@mci.com wrote:
>Help, I have a old Atlas 10" and the 3 jaw is really on tight, any
>suggestions as to how to remove it.
Lock the spindle by engaging the back gear. Chuck up a piece of scrap
(the bigger
the better) as tightly as possible. Place a pipe wrench (the bigger the
better) on
the scrap, right against the chuck's jaws. Pull down with all your
weight and
strength. This technique has never failed me with my Atlas 12 inch. One
Caution:
Protect the ways (and your knuckles!); when the chuck breaks loose, the
wrench will
come down hard and fast.
Roger Weppelman
_______________________________________________________
altavoz: Problem with locking back gear is
broken teeth .
Air hammers and impact wrenches will
remove things when constant force will not .
Impact wrenches s/b driving the smaller (lower
mass) object but in this case its tough since
that is the spindle !!
So try the easy methods 1st ( a very slight force
on the chuck w/ back gears locked) . If that fails
grab the spindle where the pawl engages the backgear
( large dia plate with pawl next to the big gear on the
spindle) with a home made wrench ( NOW UR NOT PUTTING
ANY FORCE ON THE BACK GEAR) then use an internal pipe
wrench ( possibly home made cause you'll not easily
find one that has large contact area in your thru hole)
Now use a 450 lb pnuematic impact wrench on the pipe
wrench . Its the resonance that unsticks things that
a constant force will not unstick . If ur familiar with
impact wrenchs , you allready know .
altavoz
Lock the spindle by engaging the back gear. Chuck up a piece of scrap
(the bigger
the better) as tightly as possible. Place a pipe wrench (the bigger the
better) on
the scrap, right against the chuck's jaws. Pull down with all your
weight and
strength. This technique has never failed me with my Atlas 12 inch. One
Caution:
Protect the ways (and your knuckles!); when the chuck breaks loose, the
wrench will
come down hard and fast.
Roger Weppelman
Altavoz: Ha ha ha , i'll bet you're down at the
pub telling your friends you suckered another one.
I can see the backgear losing it's teeth .
BONE HEAD HAMMER MECHANICS !!! You shouldnt be trusted
with sharp objects and s/b on a 25' tether .
1) if it only takes about 40 ft/lbs , the backgear
method works.
2) next try grabbing the spindle at the plate where
it grabs the gear ( plate that has the engagement
pawl).
3) remove spindle and clamp spindle and air impact
the chuck with a 450 ft/lb impact wrench.
4) If that dont do it ...........good luck
James Wilkins
If it has flat belts, how about holding the spindle with a real big
plumbing strap wrench on the largest pulley? The strap wrench will be
useful later to remove the chuck.
--
James Wilkins
The Mitre Corp.
Bedford, MA
Fitch R. Williams
je...@mitre.org (James Wilkins) wrote:
>If it has flat belts, how about holding the spindle with a real big
>plumbing strap wrench on the largest pulley? The strap wrench will be
>useful later to remove the chuck.
I don't have a stuck chuck at the moment but I'm following this with
interest in case I ever do.
I use a strap wrench made with an old flat belt to remove the chuck
normally after locking the back gears. But if it really got stuck,
I'd be concerned about using the backgears to hold the spindle - maybe
two strap wrenches would work but I'm not sure they would have enough
grip. Possibly if I used a piece of used serpertine belt it woul d
get a good grip.
Fitch
Mike Henry
From the following quote it appears that you see the newsgroups as an arena
for competition as opposed to a forum where like-minded individuals can get
together and share stories, tips, and advice.
That's a little sad.
altavoz <i-m4...@mail.idt.net> wrote in article
<32F418...@mail.idt.net>...
>
> Like i said , you dont have the guts to compete .
>
>
ke...@aquilagroup.com
In article <jesw-03029...@m21664-mac.mitre.org>,
je...@mitre.org (James Wilkins) wrote:
>
> If it has flat belts, how about holding the spindle with a real big
> plumbing strap wrench on the largest pulley? The strap wrench will be
> useful later to remove the chuck.
You just reminded me:
If it has V-belt(s), I have used a "strap" wrench made with a chunk of
belt, and an oak stick... A friend (Hans) uses one to turn over car
engines when cleaning timing marks, setting valves, and to hold the GD
water pump from turning when removing fan clutch from newer Fords. (why I
borrowed it <g>...Bronco II...nothing out turns them (on 3 axis no less!)
....no homebrew...yet, but been reading up)
To make one, get hardwood 1x2 (really 3/4 x 1 3/4) or similar, about 2
feet long. Cut two 6" lengths from 1 (or 1 1/2) x 1/4" HRS. In one
piece, drill 5 clearance holes for 1/4" bolts. Two about 3" apart for
mounting to stick, and 3 more on ~1" centers for holding belt. The second
piece is the same, except the three belting holes should be tapped 1/4-20
or whatever you use...End of assembled handle looks thus:
5 ea 1/4-20 x 2 bolts w/ hexnuts
__*___*______*__*__*__
___________________|___|___ | | | <- round this end of plates.
wood handle | | |3 | 2| 1| notch
___________________|___|___| | | | about 1/4" deep
__|___|______|__|__|__
* * * * *
| | | | |
3 tapped holes in lower plate( with lock nuts) all other holes plain
1/4" clearance.
You are looking at the 1" dimension of the handle.
Take the lumpy belt that came with the chinese bandsaw, and cut it. (or
buy a new belt...old one might break). If you get the kind with the
"teeth" on the inside, then the thing makes a fairly good general purpose
strap-wrench ...maybe make second one for chuck while you are set up.
Leave plenty of extra belt so that you can hold both ends in same hand
with end of handle.
Round the handle corners, sand, and varnish if you want to be fancy.
Use: numbering gaps between bolts 1-3, starting at notch: One end of belt
goes through notch, then first hole. Other end goes through 2nd hole,
then third hole. Hold ends of belt against handle to keep from slipping
(easy, as bolts add lots of friction).
Warnings:
1) This is strictly "as I recall" from borrowing a friend's that worked
well. I took no measurements. The gaps need to just clear the belting...
use of my numbers may cause belt slippage.
2)Now the weak-link may be the drive pin between bull-gear and pully
cone. Somebody smarter than me might take it out and turn himself a
replacement _before_ you start torquing! Sombody as dumb as me
would have to turn the thing in back-gear.
-Kevin Ferguson
altavoz
My best suggestion is DISCARD HAMMER AND ANY IMPACT TOOL!
One of the gears of my lathe is broken just tanks to the hammer...
I use a pair of that chain tools used to remove cars oil filters.
i place one on the bull gear, the other on the backplate of the chuck.
It works for me, it is a cheap solution and save your chuck and spindle
from hidden damages (loss of trueness, bending, bearing damage) and from
visible damages, usually a broken tooth on one gear.
Hope this helps
Ciao
Paolo Zini
altavoz:
I've been following the threads but cant find reference to
locking back gear and using impact wrench . I suggested not
to try to loosen chuck w/ back gear engaged if it takes more
than 40 lbs . If that fails , an impact wrench will work w/
an internal pipe wrench which does no damage to the spindle
or the back gear as it's not engaged.
altavoz
Subject:
Re: Stuck lathe chuck
Date:
From:
"Mike Henry" <mike_...@qmgate.anl.gov>
Organization:
ANL
Newsgroups:
rec.crafts.metalworking
References:
1 , 2 , 3 , 4
______________________________________________________--
altavoz : Competetion vs cutting down a skilled craftman.
I know many ways to safely remove a lathe chuck but Scott
Logan said dont listen to me .
Thats insulting and questions my abilities , there's
no place for that kind of childish behavior in this NG .
Trolls like Scott s/b punished.
altavoz
Subject:
Re: Stuck lathe chuck
Date:
From:
jr...@watson.ibm.com
Organization:
IBM T.J. Watson Research Center
Newsgroups:
rec.crafts.metalworking
References:
1
In <8546351...@dejanews.com>, allan.s...@mci.com writes:
>Help, I have a old Atlas 10" and the 3 jaw is really on tight, any
>suggestions as to how to remove it. It is threaded in the spindle.
>Thanks
>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Aside from the other methods being discussed:
Lock the back gears. Apply a large adjustable wrench to one jaw.
Attempt to remove chuck, but *do*not* hammer on the wrench.
You can strip the back gears.
If all else fails, backing plates are cheap. Remove the chuck from
the backplate, and machine the backplate off the spindle nose.
Do not cut into the spindle threads, obviously.
Best of luck - Jim
PS - Never run a chuck onto the spindle under power. That is most
likely the way yours got stuck, by the former owner.
altavoz: No, it gets stuck by interupted cuts . You must hand start
the thread , so you're almost home , a few more threads and a light
"clunk" sound and its on solidly on , so why would anyone motor it
on ? Your method above is good for chucks not stuck too hard .
I do it the same as you do.
but if they're welded on and no backing plate :
1) Use and internal pipe wrench and a 450 lb impact wrench
with all gears disconnected . Or a strap wrench on the bull
gear, strap w' on chuck ( as others have stated).
2) if that fails , remove the spindle. Make an adapter to fit
an impact wrench to the spindle as it's the lowest inertia.
Some have put down this impact wrench method and they are simply
no sufficiently skilled at mechanical things to understand an
impact wrench is the easiest on the equipment , not the hardest.
Some on this NG have suggested that i'm 16 yrs old . I have been
twisting wrenches and machining and working at electronics for 38
years .
jr...@watson.ibm.com
In <32F97B...@mail.idt.net>, altavoz <alta...@mail.idt.net> writes:
> Some on this NG have suggested that i'm 16 yrs old . I have been
>twisting wrenches and machining and working at electronics for 38
>years .
Well, hey. Everyone was 16 once. Try to think of it as a - *compliment*!
I've known plenty of smart 16 year olds.
Regards - Jim
Mike Henry
Umm, whatever. Not sure what your game is but I'm putting you in a manual
killfile (aka the delete key). I get the distinct impression that your
advice can be very hazardous to novices like me that take what people here
say at face value.
altavoz <alta...@mail.idt.net> wrote in article
<32F976...@mail.idt.net>...
altavoz
Altavoz: Ha ha ha , i'll bet you're down at the
pub telling your friends you suckered another one.
I can see the backgear losing it's teeth .
BONE HEAD HAMMER MECHANICS !!! You shouldnt be trusted
with sharp objects and s/b on a 25' tether .
1) if it only takes about 40 ft/lbs , the backgear
method works.
2) next try grabbing the spindle at the plate where
it grabs the gear ( plate that has the engagement
pawl).
3) remove spindle and clamp spindle and air impact
the chuck with a 450 ft/lb impact wrench.
4) If that dont do it ...........good luck
______End of text from altavoz___________
--
altavoz
altavoz: Problem with locking back gear is
broken teeth .
Air hammers and impact wrenches will
remove things when constant force will not .
Impact wrenches s/b driving the smaller (lower
mass) object but in this case its tough since
that is the spindle !!
So try the easy methods 1st ( a very slight force
on the chuck w/ back gears locked) . If that fails
grab the spindle where the pawl engages the backgear
( large dia plate with pawl next to the big gear on the
spindle) with a home made wrench ( NOW UR NOT PUTTING
ANY FORCE ON THE BACK GEAR) then use an internal pipe
wrench ( possibly home made cause you'll not easily
find one that has large contact area in your thru hole)
Now use a 450 lb pnuematic impact wrench on the pipe
wrench . Its the resonance that unsticks things that
a constant force will not unstick . If ur familiar with
impact wrenchs , you allready know .
I THINK SOME READING CHALLENGED INDIVIDUALS THOUGHT
THIS SAID LOCK BACK GEAR AND IMPACT THE CHUCK OFF !!!!
Read it again and again til you get it right .
It DOES NOT say lock back gear and impact it off .
altavoz
I have not yet seen the original post regarding the stuck chuck, but
to whoever was asking, please do not take the advise provided in the
post that I am replying to. I will not get into another argument with
Mr./Mrs./Ms. "a", but will be happy to make recommendations privately.
(I love a good battle of wits, but not against one who is so dimly
armed)
+--------------------------------------------+
| Scott Logan - s...@loganact.com |
| Logan Actuator Co. http://www.loganact.com |
+--------------------------------------------+
FAQ - http://plains.uwyo.edu/%7Emetal/index.html
Metal Web News - http://www.ten.k12.tn.us/~wgray
"Measure Twice, Cut Once"
Altavoz : No guts . I challenge you to removing
metal things of all character and size , chucks
included .
You may have worked on machine tools for 100 years
but i have worked on machine tools, airplanes,
motorcycles, computers, 660 catapilar tractors
etc etc...
I'll bet your intellegence consists of memorizing
every part number of a Logan lathe .
Like i said , you dont have the guts to compete .
cbear...@aol.com
I just acquired a 36 in vertical bandsaw, Yates-American, it is set up for
wooodworking, it has a 600 Rpm motor direct driving the drive pulley. I
want to use it for metal so have to slow it down to about 6-10 Rpm. Can
Ido this with a frequency convertor? A friend has an old one by Reliance.
Will the motor have enough torque to pull the blade at 6 RPM? Also what
tooth pattern is recommended for cuttng 4 in X 4 in I beam the hard dway.
Cecil in OK
GSI
full torque at zero RPM. One thing that you'll need to be careful of is
the heat rise you will encounter in the motor. You may see some nuisance
tripping on the thermal overload protector. Ideally, you'd want an
inverter duty motor, but I have been using a 40 horsepower baldor that is
not rated for inverter duty for 2 years on some airflow testing equipment
with no problems. If you have some more questions, mail me direct at
cco...@chipsnet.com, and I can try to answer them, or refer you to the
three contacts that I have for variable frequency drives.
Chad Coombs
cco...@chipsnet.com
altavoz
Hmm, troll: someone who posts messages for several days to a
particular newsgroups then disappears. Let's see, I have been posting
regularly to this ng for many months, you post for a few days, then
disappear (thankfully) for several months. I know I don't have to say
it, but I think the true regulars of this group know who is who.
altavoz: HMMM.... educational deficiency ( only knows one TROLL
definition ) .
The regulars are a GOOD OLE BOY society that wants nothing
to do with RCM and would rather use this NG for email .
Besides, who is going to punish me, you, little boy? To paraphrase
the great W. C. Fields: "Go 'way little boy, you bother us."
Don't get ulcers waiting and wringing your hands til i leave .
I'm probably older than you .
Ready to take the challenge , or did you chicken out ?
I know more ways to remove metal objects ( i can even help
you with your foot in mouth problem) .
Scott Logan - s...@loganact.com