ChangFa "15kw" Generator project, 1 Year Later.... (long w/ question)
James Lerch
One year ago I started fabricating my home built "15Kw" generator.
(Metal working content) At first I made great progress and quickly
got the project to the point where it was usable. {note to self, just
because project is usable, doesn't mean your finished with it!!! }
So Far I've had need for the generator twice, once after Hurricane
Wilma blew thru last year, and once after a good Florida thunderstorm.
In both cases I only generated power for 6 - 8 hrs on each occasion.
With the latest tropical storm that blew thru last month, I found
renewed interest in working on the project. The first order of
business was to calculate fuel consumption at various loads. In doing
so I learned something interesting.
To calculate fuel consumption I replaced the fuel tank with a jury
rigged system to allow the measurement of the time it took to consume
a known amount of fuel. Once I could measure the fuel consumption, I
attached the generator to my pottery kiln. The kiln has 6 switchable
resistance heaters, with each heater pulling approximately 7 amps at
240vac. When that load proved insufficient I added my 7.2Kw powder
coat oven along with the pottery kiln.
Here is what I found:
(all tests ran at 1800rpm, and assuming fuel cost of $3/gallon)
No load = 0.24 gallons per hour
3Kw load = 0.4 gallons per hour OR 40 cents per Kwh
6.1Kw load = 0.61 gallons per hour OR 30 cents per Kwh
9.2Kw load = 0.84 gallons per hour OR 27 cents per Kwh
11.2Kw load = 1.15 gallons per hour OR 31 Cents per Kwh
Now here's the interesting bit. at 11.2Kw, I maxed out the diesel
motor!! Supposedly the motor is rated at 16Kw @ 2200 rpm. Since I'm
direct driving the generator head, I run at 1800 rpm. At 11.2Kw of
power production, even bypassing the "governor" spring won't increase
the RPM, and the rpm has sagged slightly to 1761rpm (or 58.7hz)
Would the 400rpm drop in speed combined with any other losses account
for the missing 4.8Kw capacity? Does the fuel consumption seem
reasonable?
The good news is, I don't really need 15Kw of capacity, 10Kw is plenty
to start and run my entire house as if normal Utility power was still
working.
Of course, no post is complete with out including a few things I don't
like about the generator, and ideas I have on fixing them..
Complaint #1
MY GOD is it loud! The fix for this, move it to the far side
of the house, facing the neighbors I don't really care for :) I have
another idea on how to reduce the noise, but I'll save that for
another posting.........
Complaint #2
The Governor isn't very good. If I set the motor to 1830 rpms
at no load (61hz) it will drop nearly 100 rpm while under a 9Kw load,
lowering the output frequency to 57.8hz. I'm working on a PIC chip
/ stepper motor governor assist system.
Complaint #3
The voltage regulator works well at 60Hz, but since the
governor lets the frequency slide under a load, the voltage drops as
well. Starting with no load and 120vac @ 61hz, this drops to 108Vac @
57.8hz with a 9Kw load. I think fixing the governor will solve this
problem.
Observation / semi complaint #4
A one cylinder engine running at 1800 rpm producing 60hz
output power has an interesting phenomenon. For every 4 cycles of
electrical output, we only get 1 power stroke from the diesel motor.
At light loads below 6Kw this isn't a problem as the flywheels smooth
this out. At greater than 6Kw of output, you can start to "See" the
power stroke in an incandescent light bulb :) You can actually see
the bulb get brighter then get dimmer, and back to bright 15 times a
second. This 15Hz Strobe effect is just on the edge of being
"annoying" Fixing this might be interesting, I might be able to
replace the crude voltage regulator with something more advanced.
Bottom line, I have no regrets! The project is still in progress, its
fun to play with, and where else could you get an 11Kw water cooled
diesel genset that is nearly "stone age" simple in construction? :)
I'n the mean time, I'm working on adding new pictures and descriptions
to my web page dedicated to the "15Kw" generator project (now in
quotes as it's only appears to be an 11.2Kw capable, but maybe it'll a
do a 15KW surge, but I don't know how to setup a test to evaluate that
claim! :)
Thoughts and comments welcomed!
PS.. Watts do equal Vac * Amps, yes?? Assuming Vac are measured with
an RMS volt meter, and the amps are measured with a clamp on amp
meter? (also assuming Watts in this case is a good measurement as it
is only running a resistive load so Watts and VA should be equal,
Yes??)
Take Care,
James Lerch
http://lerch.no-ip.com/atm (My telescope construction, Testing, and Coating site)
http://lerch.no-ip.com/ChangFa_Gen (My 15Kw generator project)
Press on: nothing in the world can take the place of perseverance.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
Calvin Coolidge
Ignoramus13429
> Greetings All.
>
> One year ago I started fabricating my home built "15Kw" generator.
> (Metal working content) At first I made great progress and quickly
> got the project to the point where it was usable. {note to self, just
> because project is usable, doesn't mean your finished with it!!! }
I remember your project, it is very interesting.
You would need to account for some losses in generating electric power
from shaft power. (not that I cannot admit the possibility of that
motor being overrated)
> Would the 400rpm drop in speed combined with any other losses account
> for the missing 4.8Kw capacity? Does the fuel consumption seem
> reasonable?
The fuel consumption seems reasonable. My own thinking is that yes,
the engine cannot be expected to produce all its rated power at lower
than the RPM for which it was rated.
> The good news is, I don't really need 15Kw of capacity, 10Kw is plenty
> to start and run my entire house as if normal Utility power was still
> working.
That's great. The only thing I cannot do with my own Onan generator,
is run my A/C and also the kitchen range at full capacity.
> Of course, no post is complete with out including a few things I don't
> like about the generator, and ideas I have on fixing them..
>
> Complaint #1
> MY GOD is it loud! The fix for this, move it to the far side
> of the house, facing the neighbors I don't really care for :) I have
> another idea on how to reduce the noise, but I'll save that for
> another posting.........
I made a lead lined enclosure. That knocked off much needed 10
decibels, and about 3 more (I am going by memory) is removed if I lean
a piece of plyfood against its doghouse (no kidding, all was measured).
> Complaint #2
> The Governor isn't very good. If I set the motor to 1830 rpms
> at no load (61hz) it will drop nearly 100 rpm while under a 9Kw load,
> lowering the output frequency to 57.8hz. I'm working on a PIC chip
> / stepper motor governor assist system.
Not out of line with my own experience.
> Complaint #3
> The voltage regulator works well at 60Hz, but since the
> governor lets the frequency slide under a load, the voltage drops as
> well. Starting with no load and 120vac @ 61hz, this drops to 108Vac @
> 57.8hz with a 9Kw load. I think fixing the governor will solve this
> problem.
>
> Observation / semi complaint #4
> A one cylinder engine running at 1800 rpm producing 60hz
> output power has an interesting phenomenon. For every 4 cycles of
> electrical output, we only get 1 power stroke from the diesel motor.
> At light loads below 6Kw this isn't a problem as the flywheels smooth
> this out. At greater than 6Kw of output, you can start to "See" the
> power stroke in an incandescent light bulb :)
Did you try running UPSes off of your generator under load?
> You can actually see
> the bulb get brighter then get dimmer, and back to bright 15 times a
> second. This 15Hz Strobe effect is just on the edge of being
> "annoying" Fixing this might be interesting, I might be able to
> replace the crude voltage regulator with something more advanced.
>
>
> Bottom line, I have no regrets! The project is still in progress, its
> fun to play with, and where else could you get an 11Kw water cooled
> diesel genset that is nearly "stone age" simple in construction? :)
I am very happy for you. This is fantastic to own some nice thing with
an engine like that. I love my 26 year old Onan as well. The rumble
is very pleasant.
i
Ignoramus13429
be started in cold weather?
i
Adam Smith
I've been following your ChangFa project with a lot of interest. We have a
little camp generator that is a royal bitch to start, and inadequate, once
running. And this particular rural road seems to be the power failure
capital of North America. We've been blacked out for more than 8 hours at
least five times since we've been up here. A proper backup generator is
definitely on the projects list. If you get the PIC governor functioning,
details would be great!
Thanks,
Adam Smith
Midland, ON
"James Lerch" <jle...@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:449b605f....@news-server.tampabay.rr.com...
> Greetings All.
>
> One year ago I started fabricating my home built "15Kw" generator.
> (Metal working content) At first I made great progress and quickly
> got the project to the point where it was usable. {note to self, just
> because project is usable, doesn't mean your finished with it!!! }
>
<snip>
Pete C.
To really make it quiet, install in in an underground vault, elevated
off the floor of the vault and with a sump pump of course. On either
side of the vault install a large concrete planter full of pea gravel
with the generators air intake plumbed into one planter and exhaust into
the other. Surround both planters with some shrubs. You should barely be
able to detect when it's running.
Pete C.
James Lerch
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.13429.invalid> wrote:
>I remember your project, it is very interesting.
You've had a few of your own since then as well :)
BTW, how's that Atmel Microprocessor project for your TIG coming
along? (I've got an Atmel based 'ethernut' I'm playing with for a few
projects)
>The fuel consumption seems reasonable. My own thinking is that yes,
>the engine cannot be expected to produce all its rated power at lower
>than the RPM for which it was rated.
True, it is making 70% rated power. I could probably "adjust" the
fuel injection pump and get a little more out of it, but I could
equally as well damage the motor..
>Did you try running UPSes off of your generator under load?
I have two UPSes, an old APC 1000 that runs the entertainment system
and a newer SmartUPS 900 for the computer room.. The old APC doesn't
complain at all about the generator., The newer SmartUPS complained
each time the 4 ton A/C turned on or off. {shrug}
James Lerch
I've heard that they can, but some tricks might have to be employed
(pre-heat intake w/ blow torch) or somthing to the like...
I'm not sure if it will ever get cold enough down here to make
starting it difficult. If it does I'll post something about it :)
Ignoramus14534
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 05:10:20 GMT, Ignoramus13429
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.13429.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>I remember your project, it is very interesting.
>
> You've had a few of your own since then as well :)
>
> BTW, how's that Atmel Microprocessor project for your TIG coming
> along? (I've got an Atmel based 'ethernut' I'm playing with for a few
> projects)
It's coming along okay, I was mainly asking questions in the
electronics group, not here.
You can see some relatively recent pictures of the control board here:
http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Welding/11-New-Rectifier/Board/
At this point, the board has correct timing, process selector switch,
seemingly working logic for TIG and stick welding, reads all inputs
(desired and actual current/voltage), switches high frequency on and
off etc.
I want to do a few little things (like adding PWM output for
controlling the separate SCR firing system), and then wire it into the
welder.
>>The fuel consumption seems reasonable. My own thinking is that yes,
>>the engine cannot be expected to produce all its rated power at lower
>>than the RPM for which it was rated.
>
> True, it is making 70% rated power. I could probably "adjust" the
> fuel injection pump and get a little more out of it, but I could
> equally as well damage the motor..
I agree.
>>Did you try running UPSes off of your generator under load?
>
> I have two UPSes, an old APC 1000 that runs the entertainment system
> and a newer SmartUPS 900 for the computer room.. The old APC doesn't
> complain at all about the generator., The newer SmartUPS complained
> each time the 4 ton A/C turned on or off. {shrug}
I asked this question because my UPSes were complaining when I ran my
house on my Onan DJE.
i
RoyJ
Rick
"James Lerch" <jle...@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:449b605f....@news-server.tampabay.rr.com...
Seems so-you may want to calculate your BFSC (brake specific fuel consumption) and compare
those values agianst typical ones for an engine of that size.
RoyJ
A gallon of diesel is about 14,000 btus. A gallon per hour is 41 kw or
55 hp. (straight energy conversion) Small internal combustion engines
typically run in the 15% to 30% effiency range, lets say yours is 25%
(decent SWAG!) 10hp class electric motor and generator efficiency runs
in the low 90%, say 92% for yours.
1.15 gallons per hour x 41 kw x 25% x 92% = 10.84 kw (hey, I DIDN'T
fudge that, I just ran the numbers!) Looks like you are running on the
good side of the efficiency numbers. Your fuel consumption at no load is
just the accumulated engine friction and generator core losses.
Would your engine derate that much for the 400 rpm drop? Probably.
Without a torque curve I can't tell for sure but take a look at this:
I have no clue where to find a torque curve for your engine but here is
a curve for a similar sized (10 hp) gas engine (Gas and diesel will have
different curves but this is the closest I had!!)
http://www.briggsracing.com/library/Briggs_Racing/pdf/Pages_from_Intek_305.pdf
You are running 20% lower rpm than rated, 20% lower rpm on this curve is
about a 14% drop in hp. You are mesuring about 30% drop. This could
be a function of your load technique but I'd guess that your diesel has
a bit sharper torque curve than the one I'm showing.
Using an ammeter and voltmeter to figure the KW: Your kiln should look
like a pure resistive load, give you a power fctor close to one. But I'd
suspect that the COMBINATION of the generator AND the load gives you a
power factor somewhere around .85 to .9 See if we can get some of the
power experts to chime in here! (Bruce B. , where are you?)
Net: I think you have a pretty good setup for a small generator. The
specs for the various components are all set up to sell pieces of gear,
not to be perfect in the real world. I ran the engine shown above in the
load cell of a local manufacturer of commercial lawn mowers, it tested
out within a few percent of the chart. The tech was quite surprised,
they commonly brought in engines that would test as low as 60% of the hp
claimed by the engine mfg.
Cheers.
Pete C.
>
> In Florida, underground means under water!! :)
>
Nope, it means you have to waterproof the outside of the vault.
Pete C.
Don Foreman
>http://www.briggsracing.com/library/Briggs_Racing/pdf/Pages_from_Intek_305.pdf
>You are running 20% lower rpm than rated, 20% lower rpm on this curve is
> about a 14% drop in hp. You are mesuring about 30% drop. This could
>be a function of your load technique but I'd guess that your diesel has
>a bit sharper torque curve than the one I'm showing.
Depends where on the curve. In a speed region where torque increases
with increasing speed, the % change in power will be at least as great
as the % increase in speed. Power is torque x speed.
If your engine produces 16.2 KW and the generator is 92% efficient,
max output would be 14,9 KW. Dropping from 2200 RPM to 1800 RPM
drops that down to 12.2 KW if torque is constant. If max engine
torque at 1800 RPM is 92% of that at 2200 RPM (quite possible), then
you're down to 11.2 KW output. Note also that the generator is less
efficient at the higher power level due to greater resistive losses.
RoyJ
Cydrome Leader
[cut]
> A one cylinder engine running at 1800 rpm producing 60hz
> output power has an interesting phenomenon. For every 4 cycles of
> electrical output, we only get 1 power stroke from the diesel motor.
> At light loads below 6Kw this isn't a problem as the flywheels smooth
> this out. At greater than 6Kw of output, you can start to "See" the
> power stroke in an incandescent light bulb :) You can actually see
> the bulb get brighter then get dimmer, and back to bright 15 times a
> second. This 15Hz Strobe effect is just on the edge of being
> "annoying" Fixing this might be interesting, I might be able to
> replace the crude voltage regulator with something more advanced.
I was wondering what caused this in a gas generator I made that also ran
at 1800 RPM. I'm guessing a giant flywheel might help.
Where would be the best place to add this? To the engine shaft, or the
generator shaft? I'm using a 1:1 V-belt drive for testing things out.
Dave Martindale
>Now here's the interesting bit. at 11.2Kw, I maxed out the diesel
>motor!! Supposedly the motor is rated at 16Kw @ 2200 rpm. Since I'm
>direct driving the generator head, I run at 1800 rpm. At 11.2Kw of
>power production, even bypassing the "governor" spring won't increase
>the RPM, and the rpm has sagged slightly to 1761rpm (or 58.7hz)
>Would the 400rpm drop in speed combined with any other losses account
>for the missing 4.8Kw capacity? Does the fuel consumption seem
>reasonable?
You need to keep two things in mind. First, the motor rating is shaft
power out of the motor, which is shaft power into the alternator. The
electrical output of the alternator will always be less, and the ratio
is the efficiency of the alternator in converting mechanical into
electrical power.
Second, mechanical power is torque times RPM. To a first approximation,
assume torque is constant, and then power is proportional to RPM.
By running at 1800 instead of 2200 RPM, you might expect about 82% of
rated power. In actual practice, torque might be either lower or higher
at 1800, giving you somewhat more or less power (but always less than
rated output at 2200).
So maybe you're getting 13 kW mechanical from the engine, and 11 kW
electrical from the alternator. That makes the alternator 85%
efficient, if true - which doesn't seem like an unreasonable value.
Dave
Mike
be increased and you just might get your rated KWs. Keep in mind engine
exhaust heat. Since you have a kiln you probably have a way to monitor
engine exhaust temps. Try to keep it under 1,100 F for extended run times.
Next on my list of things you could do since you like to tinker is make a
tunable exhaust. Karters use a sliding exhaust tube to shorten or extend the
exhaust pipe. Since yours is fixed at 1,800 rpm it would be quite easy to
monitor the effects of longer or shorter pipe. That would improve your
engine efficiency and improve your engine torque at basically no cost.
Intake could be tuned as well.
The engine you have is not a generator engine. The governor is for a
standard type motor. You'll have to play with the governor spring and
different leverage points on the linkage to get better results. Usually gen
sets have a 3 % regulation. The motor you have is probably closer to the
standard 8-10% regulation.
Most Chinese stuff is pretty rough machined. Governor might need some
polishing up.
As for sound the intake needs some muffling to.
List your site so others can see the thing run. I'm the guy that listened to
it and told you the timing was advanced a little to much.
Don Young
especially the effective length of the spring arm. Check out the system used
on the old ONAN CCK generators. Making the governor too sensitive will
result in "hunting" or surging at some or all loads. Some slight RPM
decrease is required for the governor to increase fuel. You can also use a
load sensitive boost spring to increase the fuel at higher loads. ONAN used
a vacuum sensing governor boost but on a diesel you would probably have to
use a current sensor on the output.
Don Young
"James Lerch" <jle...@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:449b605f....@news-server.tampabay.rr.com...
James Lerch
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.14534.invalid> wrote:
>It's coming along okay, I was mainly asking questions in the
>electronics group, not here.
>
>You can see some relatively recent pictures of the control board here:
>
>http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Welding/11-New-Rectifier/Board/
>
>At this point, the board has correct timing, process selector switch,
>seemingly working logic for TIG and stick welding, reads all inputs
>(desired and actual current/voltage), switches high frequency on and
>off etc.
Very Cool! How did you implement your voltage and current sensors?
Any tips for measuring 60hz frequency? :)
Take Care,
James Lerch
http://lerch.no-ip.com/atm (My telescope construction, Testing, and Coating site)
http://lerch.no-ip.com/ChangFa_Gen (My 11.2Kw generator project)
Larry Jaques
jle...@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com (James Lerch) quickly quoth:
>Very Cool! How did you implement your voltage and current sensors?
>Any tips for measuring 60hz frequency? :)
I have a meter which checks it, and I have a Kill-A-Watt which tells
me on 120v circuits.
--
The highest purpose in life is to have no purpose at all. The puts one in
accord with nature in her manner of operation. --John Cage (1912-1992)
James Lerch
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:00:31 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
>jle...@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com (James Lerch) quickly quoth:
>
>>Very Cool! How did you implement your voltage and current sensors?
>>Any tips for measuring 60hz frequency? :)
>
>I have a meter which checks it, and I have a Kill-A-Watt which tells
>me on 120v circuits.
Sorry Larry, I should have been more specific. Ig is working on a PIC
controller for a TIG welder project, and I'm just starting to work on
a similar project to control and monitor my generator.
I was curious by what means Ig implemented to sense the Current,
Voltage, and frequency of his welder and feed this into his custom
circuit.
James Lerch
wrote:
>I like your project and here's my 2 cents worth. The engine fuel setting can
>be increased and you just might get your rated KWs. Keep in mind engine
>exhaust heat. Since you have a kiln you probably have a way to monitor
>engine exhaust temps. Try to keep it under 1,100 F for extended run times.
I do have pyrometer, I probably should go measure what it runs at
now.. Hmm More numbers, cool :)
>Next on my list of things you could do since you like to tinker is make a
>tunable exhaust. Karters use a sliding exhaust tube to shorten or extend the
>exhaust pipe. Since yours is fixed at 1,800 rpm it would be quite easy to
>monitor the effects of longer or shorter pipe. That would improve your
>engine efficiency and improve your engine torque at basically no cost.
>Intake could be tuned as well.
I played with adding a 15 foot piece of PVV pipe on the intake, didn't
make any obvious difference.. But something to consider
>The engine you have is not a generator engine. The governor is for a
>standard type motor. You'll have to play with the governor spring and
>different leverage points on the linkage to get better results. Usually gen
>sets have a 3 % regulation. The motor you have is probably closer to the
>standard 8-10% regulation.
>
>Most Chinese stuff is pretty rough machined. Governor might need some
>polishing up.
The govenor is internal, and I've really been avoiding taking the
motor apart. Maybe it is time..
>List your site so others can see the thing run.
I've never actually "Listed" as site, any suggestions?
> I'm the guy that listened to
>it and told you the timing was advanced a little to much.
Speaking of which, I have not found the intestinal fortitidue to do
that yet.. Primary concern is I'll fubar something during the
process, at about which time Murphy will ensure an extended utilty
power outage. :-0
Based on the manufacturer drawings on my web site, can you suggest any
key words to search for so I can get a better understanding of how the
injector pump works?
Mostly, I don't understand how adding or removing shims adjusts the
injection timing.
Take Care,
James Lerch
http://lerch.no-ip.com/atm (My telescope construction, Testing, and Coating site)
http://lerch.no-ip.com/ChangFa_Gen (My 11.2Kw generator project)
James Lerch
>Seems so-you may want to calculate your BFSC (brake specific fuel consumption) and compare
>those values agianst typical ones for an engine of that size.
Pretty sure I didn't do this correctly but..
Producing 9.2Kw consumes 3.19 liters of fuel per hour (most effiecient
measurment)
9.2kw / 3.19L = 2.88Kwh per liter
Diesel weighs approx 850 grams per liter depending on temp
850 / 2.88 = 295g/kwh
So my setup consumes 295 grams per kilowatt hour when producing 9.2Kw
The manual claims the engine consumes 238g/kwh. Assuming lots of
stuff, my overall measured efficiency compared to the manual is approx
82%, I guess that's ok...
At various power levels, here what my 1.2 Liter consumes:
1.15 Gallons / hour @ 11.2Kw = 4.36 L/h = 331 g/Kwh
0.84 Gallons / hour @ 9.2Kw = 3.19 L/h = 294 g/Kwh
0.61 Gallons / hour @ 6.1Kw = 2.3 L/h = 322 g/Kwh
0.4 Gallons / hour @ 3Kw = 1.52 L/h = 429 g/Kwh
Here's what I found to make comparisions against. (Even if my process
is incorrect wrt BSFC, the comparisons should still be valid)..
http://www.kohlerpowersystems.com/pdfs/g4097.pdf
Is a 12Kw 0.7 Liter 2 cylinder LP power Kohler residential unit
4.3Kg of LP vapor / hour @ 12Kw = 358 g/Kwh
3.9Kg of LP vapor / hour @ 9Kw = 433 g/Kwh
3.4Kg of LP vapor / hour @ 6Kw = 566 g/Kwh
2.2Kg of LP vapor / hour @ 3Kw = 733 g/Kwh
http://www.kohlerpowersystems.com/pdfs/g2084.pdf
Is a 13Kw 1.64 Liter 3 cylinder Diesel by Kohler Marine
1.14 Gallons / hour @ 13Kw = 4.31 L/h = 282 g/Kwh
0.85 Gallons / hour @ 9.75Kw = 3.22 L/h = 281 g/Kwh
0.68 Gallons / hour @ 6.5Kw = 2.57 L/h = 337 g/Kwh
0.5 Gallons / hour @ 3.75Kw = 1.89 L/h = 429 g/Kwh
http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/gene/GNIN-015D303.pdf
Is a 15Kw 2.4 Liter 4 cylinder turbo diesel by Generac
1.7 Gallons / hour @ 15Kw = 6.45 L/h = 365 g/Kwh
1.3 Gallons / hour @ 11.25Kw = 4.92 L/h = 372 g/Kwh
0.9 Gallons / hour @ 7.5Kw = 3.41 L/h = 386 g/Kwh
0.5 Gallons / hour @ 3.75Kw = 1.89 L/h = 429 g/Kwh
http://www.generatorjoe.net/html/gene/GNIN-010D302.pdf
Is a 10Kw 2.4 Liter 4 cylinder turbo diesel by Generac
1.1 Gallons / hour @ 10Kw = 4.16 L/h = 354 g/Kwh
0.8 Gallons / hour @ 7.5Kw = 3.03 L/h = 343 g/Kwh
0.53 Gallons / hour @ 5Kw = 2 L/h = 341 g/Kwh
0.3 Gallons / hour @ 2.5Kw = 1.14 L/h = 386 g/Kwh
http://www.generatorjoe.net/SpecSheet.asp?ID=451
Is a 13Kw 1 cylinder Diesel running @ 3600 RPM
1.7 Gallons / hour @ 13Kw = 6.44 L/h = 420 g/Kwh
1.2 Gallons / hour @ 9.75Kw = 4.54 L/h = 396 g/Kwh
0.8 Gallons / hour @ 6.5Kw = 3.03 L/h = 396 g/Kwh
http://www.gopower.com/documents/docs/1114534849.pdf
Is a 10KW 3 cylinder Mitsubishi diesel
4 liters per hour @ 9Kw = 340g/Kwh
3.2 L/h @ 6.75Kw = 363g/Kwh
2.5 L/h @ 4.5Kw = 425g/Kwh
http://news.inq7.net/common/print.php?index=2&story_id=71229&site_id=37&col=39
The Panay diesel power plant claims to consume 210 g/kwh
http://www.autointell.com/news-2000/July-2000/July-11-00-p6.htm
The 2000 Audi A8 TDI Quattro claims 205g/kwh.
Take Care,
James Lerch
http://lerch.no-ip.com/atm (My telescope construction, Testing, and Coating site)
http://lerch.no-ip.com/ChangFa_Gen (My 11.2Kw generator project)
Ignoramus4507
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2006 13:44:14 GMT, Ignoramus14534
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.14534.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>>It's coming along okay, I was mainly asking questions in the
>>electronics group, not here.
>>
>>You can see some relatively recent pictures of the control board here:
>>
>>http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Welding/11-New-Rectifier/Board/
>>
>>At this point, the board has correct timing, process selector switch,
>>seemingly working logic for TIG and stick welding, reads all inputs
>>(desired and actual current/voltage), switches high frequency on and
>>off etc.
>
> Very Cool! How did you implement your voltage and current sensors?
> Any tips for measuring 60hz frequency? :)
For voltage sensing, I am using a LEM CV 3-500 voltage transducer ($15
on ebay), and for current, LEM LT-300-S current transducer ($6 used).
I have DC, so all I need is filter it with a RC filter, using R=64k
Ohm and C=0.47 uF, that's the input into my microcontroller.
If you tie your own circuitry to the ground, you can rectify your AC
and use a voltage divider and RC filter, that's all you need. My DC
should be floating ground, I cannot do that.
Ignoramus4507
> On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 09:14:05 -0700, Larry Jaques
><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 15:00:31 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
>>jle...@no.spam.tampabay.rr.com (James Lerch) quickly quoth:
>>
>>>Very Cool! How did you implement your voltage and current sensors?
>>>Any tips for measuring 60hz frequency? :)
>>
>>I have a meter which checks it, and I have a Kill-A-Watt which tells
>>me on 120v circuits.
>
> Sorry Larry, I should have been more specific. Ig is working on a PIC
> controller for a TIG welder project, and I'm just starting to work on
> a similar project to control and monitor my generator.
>
> I was curious by what means Ig implemented to sense the Current,
> Voltage, and frequency of his welder and feed this into his custom
> circuit.
Yes, kill-a-watts are great for those who just want to look and see
voltage or current or power. (and I have one). They are not meant to
be part of control circuits.
Would be very interesting if you make a electronic governor (or some
governor addition) for your generator. I kind of agree with concern
expressed by soneone else (RoyJ?) that the tighter you want to
regulate, the more "hunting" you may experience. Some brains built
into a microcontroller could definitely help!
i
Mike
> I played with adding a 15 foot piece of PVV pipe on the intake, didn't
> make any obvious difference..
would be a good start.
> >The engine you have is not a generator engine. The governor is for a
> >standard type motor. You'll have to play with the governor spring and
> >different leverage points on the linkage to get better results.
The break down on
http://lerch.no-ip.com/ChangFa_Gen/
Shows (20) as your governor spring. Is it external? You could try a slightly
weaker spring or better yet drill a hole in the link (17) arm so that the
spring would be closer to the shaft. For closer regulation.
> >Most Chinese stuff is pretty rough machined. Governor might need some
> >polishing up.
>
> The govenor is internal, and I've really been avoiding taking the
> motor apart.
I see see you have a ball bearing governor which Chinesse like to use
(cheap)
They use ball bearings for governor weights. (34) No fix there.
> Based on the manufacturer drawings on my web site, can you suggest any
> key words to search for so I can get a better understanding of how the
> injector pump works?
>
> Mostly, I don't understand how adding or removing shims adjusts the
> injection timing.
Adding a gasket or shim under the injection pump will retard timing. Simple
device. Roller runs on a cam and activates a plunger which pops your
injector. By placing an additional shim under the pump the roller will
strike the cam later and start pumping at a later time. .008" maybe one or
two degrees.
James Lerch
wrote:
>
>The break down on
> http://lerch.no-ip.com/ChangFa_Gen/
>
>Shows (20) as your governor spring. Is it external?
It is, the "throttle" handle pulls upon this spring via the lever arm
#23 and the Knob #13 locks the lever arm #23 in place.
>You could try a slightly
>weaker spring or better yet drill a hole in the link (17) arm so that the
>spring would be closer to the shaft. For closer regulation.
I don't see how this will work, but I'll try it.
A stronger spring will pull harder on the lever arm #17, creating a
higher RPM. The RPM will climb until the governor creates enough
force to overcome the spring pressure.
That whole lever arm #17 moves maybe 1/8" at its tip when the
generator is off. When running, visually you don't see it move,
ever...
>I see see you have a ball bearing governor which Chinesse like to use
>(cheap)
>They use ball bearings for governor weights. (34) No fix there.
I keep looking at the diagram, and is this how it works??
The left half of Governor fork #37 presses against the bearing #36
(kind of like a clutch throw out bearing?)
Bearing #36 pushes against the cone shaped bearing race #35.
The cone shaped bearing race #35 tries to squeeze the three ball
bearings #34 towards the center of the disk #33 when pressure is
applied.
If during a steady state, the RPM starts exceed the desired RPM, this
will cause the three balls bearings #34 to move away from the center
of rotation. As the ball bearings move away from the center of
rotation they force the cone shaped bearing race #35 to move towards
the governor fork #37... ??
In some currently unknown way, the right side of the fork #37 engages
some device on the fuel injection pump, and adjusts the quantity of
fuel delivered to the cylinder.
Is that it??
If so, I'm off to go study the fuel injection pump and how it
interacts with the governor fork...
>> Based on the manufacturer drawings on my web site, can you suggest any
>> key words to search for so I can get a better understanding of how the
>> injector pump works?
>>
>> Mostly, I don't understand how adding or removing shims adjusts the
>> injection timing.
>
>Adding a gasket or shim under the injection pump will retard timing. Simple
>device. Roller runs on a cam and activates a plunger which pops your
>injector. By placing an additional shim under the pump the roller will
>strike the cam later and start pumping at a later time. .008" maybe one or
>two degrees.
OK, I can see that. Wouldn't this also decrease the length of the
stroke of the plunger? I guess that has to be true, but must some how
be off set by governor some how..
Mike
> A stronger spring will pull harder on the lever arm #17, creating a
> higher RPM. The RPM will climb until the governor creates enough
> force to overcome the spring pressure.
>
> That whole lever arm #17 moves maybe 1/8" at its tip when the
> generator is off. When running, visually you don't see it move,
> ever...
>
>
> >They use ball bearings for governor weights. (34) No fix there.
>
> I keep looking at the diagram, and is this how it works??
>
> The left half of Governor fork #37 presses against the bearing #36
> (kind of like a clutch throw out bearing?)
>
> Bearing #36 pushes against the cone shaped bearing race #35.
>
> The cone shaped bearing race #35 tries to squeeze the three ball
> bearings #34 towards the center of the disk #33 when pressure is
> applied.
That's exactly how it works with I believe six balls.
>
> If during a steady state, the RPM starts exceed the desired RPM, this
> will cause the three balls bearings #34 to move away from the center
> of rotation. As the ball bearings move away from the center of
> rotation they force the cone shaped bearing race #35 to move towards
> the governor fork #37... ??
>
> In some currently unknown way, the right side of the fork #37 engages
> some device on the fuel injection pump, and adjusts the quantity of
> fuel delivered to the cylinder.
>
> Is that it??
>
> If so, I'm off to go study the fuel injection pump and how it
> interacts with the governor fork...
The governor fork engages a rack that moves back and forth in the injection
pump. This cntrols the fuel.
From the looks of your picture the fuel setting screw is on the side cover
of the engine.
> >>
> >> Mostly, I don't understand how adding or removing shims adjusts the
> >> injection timing.
> >
> >Adding a gasket or shim under the injection pump will retard timing.
Simple
> >device. Roller runs on a cam and activates a plunger which pops your
> >injector. By placing an additional shim under the pump the roller will
> >strike the cam later and start pumping at a later time. .008" maybe one
or
> >two degrees.
>
> OK, I can see that. Wouldn't this also decrease the length of the
> stroke of the plunger?
The plunger does not pump the entire length, only a short portion of the
overall stroke. I did a search but had limited success in finding a pump you
could look at. The type pump you have is called a "PFR" injection pump.
Believe it means Pump, Flange, Roller
A stiff governor spring is hard to act on. It's all a balancing act with the
governor. In your case you'll have to do some experimenting.Shortening the
ratio and using the same spring may work.
ted harris
Can this unit be used to power a three phase panel? Will the Changfa
accomodate a larger generating unit, like say 20 or 25 kw?
Thanks for your time,
--
Ted Harris
http://www.tedharris.com
jimbo1490
If you REALLY want to quiet down the gen set, be sure to build an
enclosure with NO parallel walls, like a trianglular or irregular
trapezoidal shape (from a 'world' view). If you add a roof, make it
sloped also. The noise cancelling properties of such an enclosure are
profound, even with no sound dampening or absorbtive materails used at
all. Of course such materials will geatly improve the noie levels
further.
Jimbo