Bad Bookseller Experience: "Texas Bookseller"
Mike
ABE from "Texas Bookseller." (This seller lists no name, phone number,
or mailing address on his/her ABE webpage, which should have made me
more cautious to begin with in ordering from him/her.)
I purchased a copy of _In Pursuit of Valis_, which was described as
fine/fine, for $154.95. The book arrived, and the dust-jacket was worn
and rubbed on both front and back, with edgewear and creases to the
spine panel.
I wrote back to the bookseller, requesting a refund because the book
was not as described. He/she immediately wrote back, telling me it was
defintitely "fine," that he/she was an 'accredited bookseller" and I
was not (he seems to know as much about me as he does about the
definition "fine") and that there would be absolutely no refund. When I
responded by saying that we should let the ABE be the judge, and that I
would send photos of the dj to support my claim, he/she responded that
any flaws would be the result of my deliberately damaging the book!
I hope ABE will remove this person so others don't have the sort of
unpleasant ripoff that I've had.
Mike
R. Totale
>I'd just like to report a bad experience I've had buying a book on the
>ABE from "Texas Bookseller."
http://www.abebooks.com/docs/Legal/returnsPolicy.shtml
Al Smith
Just my impression from what you posted, but one man's definition
of "fine" is unlikely to match another man's definition. If you
are selling books and trying to maximize profits, "fine" is apt to
be a more flexible term than if you are a buyer looking for a
flawless copy of a book for a bargain price.
I would not buy a book from someone on-line unless they were
connected with a reputable store or organization having an
address, phone number and so on. When you take your changes on the
unknown, it only stands to reason that some of the time you are
going to be unhappy with the result. Your only protection in
on-line transactions is a firm no-questions-asked return policy if
the book is not satisfactory.
Brad Weston
<damaging the book!
did you damage it on purpose?!
"Mike" <Tony...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118788660.7...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Mike
Thanks, R. Totale and Al, for your good advice. I'll report back on how
effective ABE's policy is.
Mike
Bud Webster
wrote:
>Just my impression from what you posted, but one man's definition
>of "fine" is unlikely to match another man's definition. If you
>are selling books and trying to maximize profits, "fine" is apt to
>be a more flexible term than if you are a buyer looking for a
>flawless copy of a book for a bargain price.
Al, NO man's "fine" should include creases and rubbing.
Gnome De Plume
>> any flaws would be the result of my deliberately
>> damaging the book!
> did you damage it on purpose?!
< snips >
Yeah. I'm sure that, not knowing whether or not he would get a refund
from the seller - or assistance in his complaint from any other agency -
he intentionally damaged the value of a book that he might very well
have to end up keeping. Sounds reasonable to me. Think I'll try that
clever gambit on my next purchase!
Yeesh!!!
--
rolob...@earthlink.net
Swimming in the rivers of light.
Shelf Space
Hi Mike:
My suggestions:
1) Email the seller and offet to keep it if he refunds you $50.
2) If he doesn't agree to this, instigate a refund via your ABE
homepage and return the book to him by recorded post.
If you suspect him of being shady, take a photograph or scan of the
book before sending it back in case he tries to argue you damaged the
book. I once tried to return a book purchased from a disreputable
Seattle based bookseller, and she made it very obvious that she would
reject the return by arguing that she would find some non-existent
damage done to the book during the short time I had had it.
Finally, it might be worth advising him that if he doesn't resolve the
situation amicably, that you will post a warning about him on the ABE
community forum noticeboard. This is very much a last measure though,
you really should try to broker a reasonable compromise, and only
resort to that action if both he and ABE refuse to do anything about
the situation.
I was once told by a lawyer that if you buy a dodgy, misdescribed car
from someone, it's a good idea to return it them as soon as possible
along with the keys. I think the same goes for a poorly described book.
Good luck,
CB
michael adams
...
It would be interesting to discover whether the vendor would be willing
to repeat such a claim to a third party, i.e Abebooks. In which case, you
could presumably sue them for defamation. Because even if they accept that
the book is damaged they have no way of knowing whether such damage may
have occured in transit.
The fact that you have proof that they have already made such a
slanderous - if not thus far actionable - accusation already stands
you in very good stead when you pursue the matter further.
As you've already discovered for yourself their bookseller page on
Abebooks is very sparse, and they don't issue any online catalogues.
If you knew that they depended on Abebooks for a lot of their
business then that would clearly put you in a stronger position ,
as you'd know they'd have far more to lose.
Their lack of professionalism would suggest to me that they're
unlikely to be shifting much stock. Which means they have nothing
to lose from being as difficult and obstructive as possible.
Some people may prefer being obstructive and difficult to actually
turning a profit. So be warned.
But what I wouldn't do - given that they're given to levelling
accusations of dishonesty against total strangers - is to return the
book to them, before obtaining some form of adjudication or arbitration.
As to the suggestion of making them an offer to accept the damage
IMO this is a total no-no. As far as you're concerned you bought a
book in Fine\Fine condition. Because that's what you collect. If you
were a collector of lesser condition books you wouldn't have bid
for this one. A full reimbursement of the price and postage is
the least you can expect.
I personally would take great exception to being accused of
deliberately damaging the book, and might even ask for further
compensation in respect of that remark, in addition.
michael adams
...
michael adams
"Shelf Space" <haunte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118837101.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> I was once told by a lawyer that if you buy a dodgy, misdescribed car
> from someone, it's a good idea to return it them as soon as possible
> along with the keys. I think the same goes for a poorly described book.
>
>
Except cars can't get damaged in the post.
michael adams
> Good luck,
>
> CB
>
jo...@rarebooksinjapan.com
I'd just like to report a bad experience I've had buying a book on the
ABE from "Texas Bookseller."
____________________________
No such seller appears to be currently listed with ABE:
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/ClientAlphaList?startName=Texas+Bookseller&ph=2
My experience with an unreasonable ABE seller took persistence and led
to the seller being suspended from ABE. I finally got a refund (I had
already returned the book months previously) when they realised they
were cutting their nose off to spite their face, and paid the disputed
refunds in order to get back onto ABE. (I believe they have now finally
gone out of business.)
If this seller has indeed been booted off ABE your best bet might be to
return the book and contact ABE as soon as possible, to make your
refund a precondition of them getting accepted back onto ABE.
On the other hand, they may have decided to cut and run, in which case
if you hang on to the book at least you will have got *something* for
your money.
Shelf Space
you would seek to try and post a car through a letter box.
Jesus Christ, it's blindingly obvious that your life is going badly
offline or that you've got a grudge against me personally, what with
all this silly stalking around of me from newsgroup to newsgroup, and
the raising of very silly niggly issues.
So which is it, Adams? If the former, stop taking it out on others. If
the latter, detail your gripes in an email and send it direct. Just
stop with all this weird stalking, will you? I don't enjoy it and it
only sours the atmosphere in discussion groups.
jo...@rarebooksinjapan.com
No such seller appears to be currently listed with ABE
_____________________________________
Found them! http://www.abebooks.com/home/3COOKIES/
Seems to be a problem with the ABE search organ.
So they are still there, bold as brass. My advice would be to return
the book as soon as possible and lodge a complaint with ABE. If what
you say so far is true, they are patently devious, so return it by
recorded post.
Unless ABE has changed its policy, there will be a kind of "three
strikes and out" system. That means you depend upon there being at
least two other customers out there who are as dissatisfied as you and
as determined to obtain redress (believe me, it takes persistence!),
and you also depend on the seller ultimately coughing up in order to
continue listing on ABE. It's a long tough haul, but it can be done.
michael adams
> Except that they *do* often get damaged in transit. Only an idiot like
> you would seek to try and post a car through a letter box.
Oh I see.
So how often to people have cars delivered to them ?
As compared with driving them out of the showroom themselves?
And how many people arrange to have faulty cars returned to the
showroom by a third party?
As compared with returning the car in person ?
Two more questions destined to go unanswered no doubt.
...
>
> Jesus Christ, it's blindingly obvious that your life is going badly
> offline or that you've got a grudge against me personally, what with
> all this silly stalking around of me from newsgroup to newsgroup, and
> the raising of very silly niggly issues.
...
Your reference to "silly and niggly issues" here, would seem to be an
admission on your part that you're wrong Barker.
So why not be a man for once, and admit as much ?
...
>
> So which is it, Adams? If the former, stop taking it out on others. If
> the latter, detail your gripes in an email and send it direct. Just
> stop with all this weird stalking, will you? I don't enjoy it and it
> only sours the atmosphere in discussion groups.
...
If you stop posting total rubbish Barker, there'll be less opportunity
for anyone, myself included, to point out your errors to you.
It really is as simple as that.
Personal abuse will get you nowhere.
michael adams
...
Mike
return" procedure with the ABE, which is an automated process. But,
since the bookseller told me he would not accept a return (and also
told me that I was not to write him again, as that would constitute
"spam"), I'm reluctant to return the book to him until the ABE assures
me that they will process a refund if he doesn't. (And this isn't much
of an "if," since he's assured me there will be no refund: as he wrote
to me after I told him I would be sending photos to the ABE to document
my claim that his description of the book was false, "Unless you have
damaged the book,
it will only show how accurately and professionally
graded it was. It is a perfect example of a FINE book....
I am a professional accredited book appraiser, you
Sir, are not." A completely amazing statement, given the rubs, wear,
and creases on the dj, and foxing on the book.)
I've written to the ABE via their online form, but have not received a
response. I also checked their Community Forum, to see if there was a
thread on which to post reports of fraudulent sellers, but there isn't.
I guess this particular case will test ABE's efficacy in dealing with
this sort of complaint.
Mike
Al Smith
> book before sending it back in case he tries to argue you damaged the
> book. I once tried to return a book purchased from a disreputable
> Seattle based bookseller, and she made it very obvious that she would
> reject the return by arguing that she would find some non-existent
> damage done to the book during the short time I had had it.
Ahhhh, hmmmm (thinking about this suggestion) -- You scan the
book, which is already in your possession to prove, what? That it
was already damaged when you got it? But if you've already
received the book, couldn't you have been the one who damaged it,
then scanned it?
Al Smith
Oh wait, oh wait, I get it! You mean you scan the book to prove
that any subsequent damage, done by the seller when he received
the book back in the mail, was not done by you, right? Except, you
could scan the book, then damage it, then send it back.
Shelf Space
it for a 30% refund. The seller was very apologetic and more than happy
to give a refund instead of having process a refund and absorb double
postage charges.
But having accessed their ABE homepage, I have to say that I would be
personally wary about purchasing a book from a seller who doesn't list
a land address. I think box numbers are worrying enough themselves, but
quite how ABE allow someone to advertise without listing their address
or phone number is beyond me.
Jon Meyers
> "...It is a perfect example of a FINE book....
> I am a professional accredited book appraiser, you
> Sir, are not." A completely amazing statement, given the rubs, wear,
> and creases on the dj, and foxing on the book.)
Hey, he picked up the book and said, "Well, it looks fine to me."
My wife grew up in Virginia, and she tells me that that state's driver's
licensing standards were once so lax that people used to say you could
get a Virginia license "if you can see lightning and hear thunder."
Perhaps those are the criteria they use for accrediting book appraisers
in Texas.
--Jon Meyers
Shelf Space
jpe...@qwest.net
website. What is one to make of that?
-Concerned in the Colonies
Jon Meyers
> Jon Meyers wrote:
>
>
>>Mike wrote:
>>
>>>"...It is a perfect example of a FINE book....
>>>I am a professional accredited book appraiser, you
>>>Sir, are not." A completely amazing statement, given the rubs, wear,
>>>and creases on the dj, and foxing on the book.)
>>
>>in Texas.
>
>
> scam artist in all states.
>
> And just where does any state accredit book appraiser? I would also
> point out this was not an appraiser but a dealer.
The dealer called himself a book appraiser, though I'd wager he's no
more "accredited" than I am, but it was just a joke, John--no offense to
legitimate dealers, appraisers, or Texans in general intended. There
are also many fine drivers in Virginia (in the bag with the wedges &
putters).
--Jon Meyers
Some Guy
> Thanks to everybody for their advice so far. I started the "initiate
> return" procedure with the ABE, which is an automated process. But,
> since the bookseller told me he would not accept a return (and also
> told me that I was not to write him again, as that would constitute
> "spam"), I'm reluctant to return the book to him until the ABE assures
> me that they will process a refund if he doesn't. (And this isn't much
> of an "if," since he's assured me there will be no refund: as he wrote
> to me after I told him I would be sending photos to the ABE to document
> my claim that his description of the book was false, "Unless you have
> damaged the book,
> it will only show how accurately and professionally
> graded it was. It is a perfect example of a FINE book....
> I am a professional accredited book appraiser, you
> Sir, are not." A completely amazing statement, given the rubs, wear,
> and creases on the dj, and foxing on the book.)
> I've written to the ABE via their online form, but have not received a
> response. I also checked their Community Forum, to see if there was a
> thread on which to post reports of fraudulent sellers, but there isn't.
> I guess this particular case will test ABE's efficacy in dealing with
> this sort of complaint.
>
> Mike
Mike,
According to the Web site, the dealer's name is "Amy Arsupial" (why did
I think I
saw "marsupial" there?) so I don't know who you are talking to if you're
talking to
a "he." I suppose it could be a worker at the business, but it smells
awfully like a
"work at home" bookseller, not a brick & mortar bookseller.
Did the package you received have a return address? Was it a P.O. box
or a street?
The dealer also seem to not understand what "spam" means, either. This
is probably
a clue that you're dealing with a stupid and shady person who won't
refund your money
unless forced. This dealer also sells under the name "Amy Arsupial" on
Alibris and
"Texas Bookseller" on Biblio, so it wouldn't hurt to complain to them as
well about the
dealer, even though you didn't buy through their services. Biblio says
the dealer has
only been on their service since May 25 of this year, so you can take
that for what it's
worth.
William M. Klimon
news:Q_2se.62$SF5.20@fed1read07...
> According to the Web site, the dealer's name is "Amy Arsupial" (why did I
> think I
> saw "marsupial" there?)
Sounds like a pseudonym to me. Reminds me of the old gag in which someone
got a letter to the editor published in the Times of London signed by a Mr.
R. Supwards.
William M. Klimon
http://www.gateofbliss.com
telicalbook
"Book Description: Cambridge University Press, 1994. Hard cover. No DJ
Issued. New. No dust jacket as issued. Sort of dirty on the front
cover, but otherwise it is in PERFECT condition!"
New is now considered a grade that can have a "sort of dirty" front
cover.
And since New is a grade in some minds above Fine....hmmm.....
Shelf Space
'far and wide' to encourage further malicious stalking and harrassment
of me, I think you have your answer, Urko.
You are a dirty old man in a raincoat, jerking off over your computer
as you post abusive messages. You were voted the single most annoying
person in another once popular newsgroup. Hmm. I wonder why?
And where are these novels you promised to write after the death of
your close friend? You know, more S&M horror in the wrestling ring, the
Pulitzer stuff? What's that, you've got 'writer's block', and can't get
your 'pen' to work anymore? Never mind, you can always play with
yourself on the computer.
CB
"I've launched more careers than you've had pieces of ass."
John Pelan - on the internet, 2005
"Sorry, who? John Pelman?"
AN AWARD WINNING WRITER AND EDITOR IN 2004 (too scared to be quoted
lest he attract the stalking attentions of Herr Pelan)
my-wings
> Thanks to everybody for their advice so far. I started the "initiate
> return" procedure with the ABE, which is an automated process. But,
> since the bookseller told me he would not accept a return (and also
> told me that I was not to write him again, as that would constitute
> "spam"),
I am amazed at the people who feel "spam" is another word for "any email or
posting I don't like." The label does not make it so, and as far as I know,
there is no penalty anywhere for sending an email that's NOT spam to a
person. The worst they can do is block your address.
I'm reluctant to return the book to him until the ABE assures
> me that they will process a refund if he doesn't. (And this isn't much
> of an "if," since he's assured me there will be no refund: as he wrote
> to me after I told him I would be sending photos to the ABE to document
> my claim that his description of the book was false, "Unless you have
> damaged the book,
> it will only show how accurately and professionally
> graded it was. It is a perfect example of a FINE book....
> I am a professional accredited book appraiser, you
> Sir, are not." A completely amazing statement, given the rubs, wear,
> and creases on the dj, and foxing on the book.)
Accredited by whom? Perhaps that organization would care to arbitrate.
(Removing tongue from cheek, now.)
This guy (gal, possibly) sounds like someone who started in the
buyer-beware,
seller-is-always-right-or-at-least-has-your-money-so-there's-nothing-you-can-do-about-it
arena of eBay and thought there was easy money to be made in books, so has
moved over to more reputable sites without bothering to become more
reputable himself.
Here is a link to ABE's return policy, not that it will help a lot since the
seller is arguing with your condition description:
http://dogbert.abebooks.com/docs/Legal/returnsPolicy.shtml
I just had a great experience with an ABE seller. I had bought a book as
"fine", but it had writing on the in-side of the last free end paper that
they missed in their description. I was buying on behalf of someone else,
and I really needed the book to be fine, so I couldn't keep it. They were
very apologetic and quickly returned not only the purchase price but my
return postage and a little more.
Alice
Mike
polite and prompt replies from their customer service, but it seems
they have a built-in Catch-22. The customer service person told me that
the seller must refund my purchase price and shipping once I return the
book for the reason "book is not as described," and the seller's
private policy of "no returns" does not overide ABE's 30-day return
guarantee. HOWEVER, the seller apparently does have the right to
dispute whether or not the book is as described (!) and thus even if I
return the book, the seller may not refund the money.
I find this somewhat illogical, and perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but
this is what I was told by ABE:
"I reminded the seller of our Abebooks Return Policy, which cannot be
circumvented by a Bookseller's own policy. In case you receive another
e-mail from the bookseller refusing to refund you , I have provided the
link to our Returns Policy page for your reference:
http://www.abebooks.com/docs/Legal/returnsPolicy.shtml
Sellers must accept refunds for all reasons, except for "Buyer Changed
Mind." Because "Item as Not Described" is such a subjective situation,
this is a reason that is often disputed. They cannot refuse to refund
you, however, because they are permitted to dispute the reason of "Item
Not as Described" you will probably not receive a refund for the price
of the book and the original cost of shipping."
So, I've written back to customer service to find out what happens if I
return the book and don't receive a refund from the seller (which they
admit is "probable") -- does ABE then issue a refund? Do they expell
the seller? Have I lost $160 and the book?
Will post more if I find out more.
Mike
Mike
I received a clarification from the ABE; the customer service person
inserted a "not" in the wrong place, and assures me that I will be
refunded by ABE because the bookseller used ABECommerce to process the
transaction:
"I am SO sorry, I just re-read my message to you and I included the
word "not" in a very crucial place. I meant to say that you will only
be refunded for the original shipping and the price of the book and
that you WON'T be refunded for the cost of return shipping, because she
is disputing the reason. I apologize for the error and my horrible
proof-reading skills.
You will definitely be refunded, because Abebooks processes the credit
card payments for this seller. But in order to be refunded you will
have to ship the book back directly to the seller. If you can, take
pictures of the book before you send it back to her, just to offer
yourself some additional protection. Please, whatever you do, send the
book back using a traceable method. This way all of your bases will be
covered. I hope that this will be resolved quickly."
Well, the book is going off to the "professional book appraiser of 23
years experience" tomorrow, registered mail!
Mike
John A. Stovall wrote:
> I would suggest you start to cc: the Texas AG's Consumer division on
> your ABE correspondence. I would also stop using email and go to a
> certified return receipt letter to ABE and a copy to the AG's office.
> That show a higher level of concern than an email. You would also let
> the AG's office know about the book seller.
>
>
> ******************************************************
>
> "I have been a witness, and these pictures are
> my testimony. The events I have recorded should
> not be forgotten and must not be repeated."
>
> -James Nachtwey-
> http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/
Dormammu
It wouldn't hurt to get a delivery confirmtion and insurance either
William M. Klimon
news:%Qmse.170$Lr4.137@fed1read03...
> It wouldn't hurt to get a delivery confirmtion and insurance either
It wouldn't hurt to edit your postings a bit either. You reposted about 60
or 70 lines of previous posts just to include that nugget.
William M. Klimon
Has anyone noticed a preponderance of "matched" wants from A1Books of
Netcong, NJ?
Admittedly, I use some very loose keyword and other searches. But those
have all developed from experience. For example, I have a standing
search/saved want for books by the author "Peter F. Anson" and those used to
be the terms I used in my saved want. But then I discovered some sellers
listing the author of his books as simply "Anson, P." So I changed my want
to that. Unfortunately, though, those search terms pick up the books of
another author writing on financial (and not ecclesiastical) matters.
So what's the problem? Everyone gets the occasional or even regular "false
positive" from such searching, right? Well, A1Books of Netcong, NJ, lists
multiple copies of every book and they must reload their inventory everyday
because I get the same "matched" want reports with dozens and dozens of
listings from them EVERYDAY. I've lived with it for months and months,
persevering because I didn't want to miss a true positive match. But I've
finally lost my patience. I'm going to have to change my saved want and
probably miss some books along the way to save my sanity. I haven't looked
up ABE's policy on these questions, but it ought to be the case that such
multiple-copy listing and daily inventory reloading should be discouraged
for the very reason I cite: it frustrates those of us who are making use of
the saved want system. Even eBay prohibits multiple listings of identical
items (over 10 such items) because it causes the keyword searching system
(which, face it, is the only way to use eBay now--browsing is almost
impossible) to break down.
Has anyone else run into A1Books or similar sellers? Is this a complaint
worth making to ABE?
Jon Meyers
> Has anyone noticed a preponderance of "matched" wants from A1Books of
> Netcong, NJ?
> [snip]
> So what's the problem? Everyone gets the occasional or even regular "false
> positive" from such searching, right? Well, A1Books of Netcong, NJ, lists
> multiple copies of every book and they must reload their inventory everyday
> because I get the same "matched" want reports with dozens and dozens of
> listings from them EVERYDAY...
>
> Has anyone else run into A1Books or similar sellers? Is this a complaint
> worth making to ABE?
Ah, yes, A1Books. Their listings turn up in several of my wants every
day--the worst one for the past few weeks has been Marilynne Robinson's
"Mother Country," an analysis of Britain's nuclear-power industry. A1
never, as far as I've seen, specifies edition, printing, binding, or
condition, so the listings are completely worthless and not worth
inquiring after.
I'm not sure a complaint to ABE would accomplish much. A1Books *is*
annoying, but what are they doing that ABE would find it necessary to
stop? I'll bet A1 and others like them generate a lot of income for ABE.
--Jon Meyers
Scrooge
that is A1Books specific and use
the (not) or (~) to eliminate those hits. For example searching just A1Books
with ~"customers served" in the
keyword section will return no results. This can can be added to your want.
There are obvious cons, but you get the
idea.
Rich
"Jon Meyers" <stlouisb...@waycharter.net> wrote in message
news:%Hrse.607$wm2...@fe05.lga...
chi...@alamedanet.net
William M. Klimon wrote:
> Since we're in the griping mood:
>
> Has anyone noticed a preponderance of "matched" wants from A1Books of
> Netcong, NJ?
>
>
> So what's the problem? Everyone gets the occasional or even regular "false
> positive" from such searching, right? Well, A1Books of Netcong, NJ, lists
> multiple copies of every book and they must reload their inventory everyday
> because I get the same "matched" want reports with dozens and dozens of
> listings from them EVERYDAY.
A1 Books is a listing service, much like ABE itself. they have
hundreds of dealers as members, especially in the
comics/scifi/collectibles areas. however, they phrase their listings
as if they were a single dealer. thus they do appear to have many
copies of most any reasonably common book in those fields, as well as
multiples of common stuff in any field. they might have very little
rare or of interest to most r.c.b regulars, but when it comes to misc
crapola, "their" inventory will dwarf any real bookseller.
chiwito
Shelf Space
michael adams wrote:
> "Shelf Space" <haunte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1118843322.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Except that they *do* often get damaged in transit. Only an idiot like
> > you would seek to try and post a car through a letter box.
>
>
> Oh I see.
>
> So how often to people have cars delivered to them ?
Very often. For example, my new car is currently being shipped over
from Japan at this very moment, and will be delivered to me here in
Norfolk when it has cleared customs.
(Acres of nit-picking nonsense clipped for the sake of humanity.)
CB
David Ames
Mike wrote:
> Thanks to everybody for their advice so far. I started the "initiate
> return" procedure with the ABE, which is an automated process. But,
> since the bookseller told me he would not accept a return (and also
> told me that I was not to write him again, as that would constitute
> "spam"),
A commercial dispute is not spam. A dispute requires an answer, spam
does not.
David Ames
michael adams
>
>
> michael adams wrote:
> > "Shelf Space" <haunte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:1118843322.7...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > Except that they *do* often get damaged in transit. Only an idiot like
> > > you would seek to try and post a car through a letter box.
> >
> >
> > Oh I see.
> >
> > So how often to people have cars delivered to them ?
>
> Very often. For example, my new car is currently being shipped over
> from Japan at this very moment, and will be delivered to me here in
> Norfolk when it has cleared customs.
...
The nearest you've ever come to a new car is walking past one in
the street. Unless it was a Trabant or a Lada.
And in any case, how many secondhand books come with a manfacturer's
guarantee?
michael adams
...
Shelf Space
argument, you keep coming back with a juvenile and pathetic jibe.
So feck off, you sad little stalker.
michael adams
> Feck off, you sad little stalker. Everytime I qualify or prove my
> argument, you keep coming back with a juvenile and pathetic jibe.
>
> So feck off, you sad little stalker.
>
...
This from somebody who equates the purchase of second hand
books via mail order, with the purchase of automobiles.
I quote -
"Shelf Space" <haunte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118837101.4...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
" I was once told by a lawyer that if you buy a dodgy, misdescribed
car from someone, it's a good idea to return it them as soon as
possible along with the keys. I think the same goes for a poorly
described book.
And who further goes on to explain -
"Shelf Space" <haunte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119036427.6...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
" For example, my new car is currently being shipped over
from Japan at this very moment..."
So let's just hope they haven't sent the wrong colour, or it looks like
somebody is looking forward to a nice, long, sea voyage.
Hoot!
michael adams
...
Shelf Space
stupid donkey. So why don't you just go away? I don't like to be doted
upon by you, nor do the others in this newsgroup like the rancour, and
the impression you are creating is not one which flatters you. You
appear hopelessly obsessed, hence your persistent nit-picking and silly
personal asides.
Car dealers will happily deliver a car to one's home or office, just as
they will happily collect a car when it's service is due. Everyone
knows that. Even ten or so years ago, when I worked in a very large
office, it was perfectly routine for car dealers to deliver or collect
new or lease cars from the workplace. Today they are even more
flexible. Indeed, as soon as I mentioned the fact that I would have
trouble collecting from the people who are supplying my new car because
of child care commitments, they offered to deliver it.
As for whether or not you think I am able to afford a new car, well, I
shall just leave your prurient, malicious speculation unanswered.
Clearly it is none of your business, as will be abundantly clear to
everyone who reads this group. The name of this group is
rec.collecting.books, not
mickey.adams's.obsessive.interest.in.chris.barker
So screw you and screw your ridiculous donkey-like obsession about this
whole issue.
michael adams
> Being stalked like you is like being followed around by an incredibly
> stupid donkey. So why don't you just go away? I don't like to be doted
> upon by you, nor do the others in this newsgroup like the rancour,
...
The only rancour is emanating from you Mr Barker. I merely
pointed out a flaw in your argument, to which your only response
thus far, has been to label me as a stalker twice in succession,
and call me a stupid donkey.
Given that stalking happens to be a criminal offence, if I was as
childish as you are, I might be given to speculating right now as
to what the reaction of AOL, yes Mr Barker AOL, your ISP I believe,
might be, were your posting behaviour to be brought to their attention.
...
> and
> the impression you are creating is not one which flatters you.
...
There I must admit, I'm forced to agree with you Mr Barker.
Very few of the people who come into contact with you on Usenet
can escape being dragged down to your level eventually, can they ?
Anyone who for no reason whatsoever starts being accused of being a
Stalker or a Sock Puppet, or being insulted in similar fashion
will find it very difficult not to respond in kind eventually.
Won't they Mr Barker? As you well know.
This together with the fact, that to the untutored eye you give
very indication of being deranged, and thus an object of pity
again works to your advantage of course.
Nevertheless I am trying to hold out as best I can.
Because after all Mr Barker, who would want to be seen lowering
themselves to the extent of scoring cheap points off somebody as
apparently deranged and paranoid as you seem to be ?
...
> You
> appear hopelessly obsessed, hence your persistent nit-picking and silly
> personal asides.
>
> Car dealers will happily deliver a car to one's home or office, just as
> they will happily collect a car when it's service is due. Everyone
> knows that. Even ten or so years ago, when I worked in a very large
> office, it was perfectly routine for car dealers to deliver or collect
> new or lease cars from the workplace. Today they are even more
> flexible. Indeed, as soon as I mentioned the fact that I would have
> trouble collecting from the people who are supplying my new car because
> of child care commitments, they offered to deliver it.
...
Yes Mr Barker. And what's the first thing the customer does when the
car is delivered ? They walk around the car and inspect it so as to
satisfy themselves that there are no scratches or dents and that
in the case of a secondhand car, that the tyres aren't bald and so
on. Because if there are any such faults then they simply won't
accept delivery.
So tell me Mr Barker, when you recieve a book in the post, do you make
the postman wait while you unwrap the package, so as to satisfy
youreself that the book is in the condition described. And refuse
delivery if it isn't?
...
>
> As for whether or not you think I am able to afford a new car, well, I
> shall just leave your prurient, malicious speculation unanswered.
> Clearly it is none of your business, as will be abundantly clear to
> everyone who reads this group.
...
You were the one who was looking for any excuse to tell everyone about
this new car you're supposed to have bought. I never asked you to.
Did I ask you about your car Mr Barker? No I most certainly did not!
...
> The name of this group is
> rec.collecting.books, not
> mickey.adams's.obsessive.interest.in.chris.barker
...
You mentioned the car. Not me.
There's no use trying to shift the blame, just because you've been
caught out, trying to show off.
...
>
> So screw you and screw your ridiculous donkey-like obsession about this
> whole issue.
>
And what issue would that be ?
That buying second hand books mail order, bears very little relation
to buying cars, as you claimed ?
Well does it?
michael adams
...
Shelf Space
William M. Klimon
news:%Hrse.607$wm2...@fe05.lga...
> I'm not sure a complaint to ABE would accomplish much. A1Books *is*
> annoying, but what are they doing that ABE would find it necessary to
> stop? I'll bet A1 and others like them generate a lot of income for ABE.
You may be right. My point is that multiple identical listings and daily
inventory reloading (without new information or listings) may eventually
kill the "saved wants" notification feature.
I buy a lot of books through that feature and would hate to see it
destroyed.
Shelf Space
your inbox horribly and makes browsing through matched wants an onerous
chore. The sly creatures have also started listing their
print-on-demand as having the same original publication date of the
first edition, to slip through even prescriptive wants listings.
It's also annoying when a seller lists a single short story as a book
title. Pretty soon no one will bother wants match emails and they will
become pure spam. It's ABE's fault of course, they are quite happy to
keep on raking in the short term buck.
palmer....@sbcglobal.net
Shelf Space wrote:
> Except that they *do* often get damaged in transit.
Most of the the time when that happens, it is strictly
the seller's fault. Most (single) books can be safely
sent in a "bubble wrap" type of mailing envelope. With
more expensive books, it is wise for the seller to wrap
the book in an extra layer of bubble-wrap before placing
it in the envelope. Of course, sending very large
books or multiple books requires more effort on the
part of the seller: If the seller does not a have
clean, sturdy box handy, he should buy one` and then
surround the enclosed books with bubble wrap or other
suitable packing material. Scrounging up dilapated
cartons and throwing the books in them with maybe a
few crumpled newspapers for padding is a deplorable
way to do mail-order business. Anyway, while I don't
know how mail is handled in some third-world backwater,
with the modern U. S. P. S., it would be very, very
unusual that a properly wrapped book would be damaged
en route.
michael adams
<palmer....@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1119405765....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Shelf Space wrote:
> > Except that they *do* often get damaged in transit.
>
> Most of the the time when that happens, it is strictly
> the seller's fault. Most (single) books can be safely
> sent in a "bubble wrap" type of mailing envelope. With
> more expensive books, it is wise for the seller to wrap
> the book in an extra layer of bubble-wrap before placing
> it in the envelope.
...
Back from leave then, I see Palmer.
IMO The corners of books especially, are far better protected by
being enclosed in corrugated cardboard cut from supermarket
cartons and folded to fit around the book*. The cardboard
taped together with (UK) poundshop parcel tape - 3 rolls for
a £1. The whole then enclosed in a jiffy bag. This may not
look nice, but providing the cardboard protudes sufficiently
proud of the corners and edges of the book IMO this provides
the most efficient solution. Extra weight shouldn't be too much
of a problem.
* The best shape IMO is the simple sandwich just the two sheets of
carboard which overhang the book by at least four(ish) inches all round.
Folded to meet and taped across the edges. This is more costly
however in terms of envelope sizes.
...
> Of course, sending very large
> books or multiple books requires more effort on the
> part of the seller: If the seller does not a have
> clean, sturdy box handy,
...
Nope. All this does is provide a "nice looking package" which is
most likely going to be thrown away anyway. Believe it or not
the posties don't care what the packaging looks like - what they
do appreciate however, are large, clearly printed address labels
preferably on both sides. Far better to cut the cardboard from a
once used carton and fold it to fit. And slide that into a
padded envelope.
...
> he should buy one and then
> surround the enclosed books with bubble wrap or other
> suitable packing material.
...
But this generates more waste, with the necessity to ship and fill
empty space and volume unecessarily. Mostly plastic, and a lot of it
non-biodegradeable. Either bubble wrap, or the dreaded plastic peanuts.
Empty space filled with aerated plastics is fine for vases and delicate
stuff but is unnecessary for books. Or a lot of other stuff that comes
surrounded by it. It's just laziness, and or standardised working practices,
and or a desire to conform, on the part of shippers.
...
> Scrounging up dilapated
> cartons and throwing the books in them with maybe a
> few crumpled newspapers for padding is a deplorable
> way to do mail-order business.
...
What matters is the condition of the book on its receipt not the
aesthetics of the packaging. Most supermarket cartons aren't
dilapidated, they're well designed to withstand storage and
shipping on the one journey at least. And most can be cut up to
provide sheathing for books to be folded in situ. With the
existing printing on the inside - if that really is an isssue.
An enclosed note expaining the packaging policy could be
attached, if though desirable as well.
...
> Anyway, while I don't
> know how mail is handled in some third-world backwater,
> with the modern U. S. P. S., it would be very, very
> unusual that a properly wrapped book would be damaged
> en route.
>
...
I think you mean a wastefully wrapped book there.
michael adams
palmer....@sbcglobal.net
the seller's fault when books are damaged in the
mails? As far as your packaging ideas, yes, they
may be less wasteful of materials, but it seems to
me they are MORE wasteful of time, because --
if I understand your process -- it seems like
something which would take considerably more
of a typical seller's time.
michael adams
<palmer....@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1119421986.9...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> Do you agree with my main point that it very likely
> the seller's fault when books are damaged in the
> mails?
...
Yes. There may be the odd embittered postie around who
deliberately damages things - but by and large it's
down to inadequate packing.
...
> As far as your packaging ideas, yes, they
> may be less wasteful of materials, but it seems to
> me they are MORE wasteful of time, because --
> if I understand your process -- it seems like
> something which would take considerably more
> of a typical seller's time.
...
Not when a routine was developed. Pick up the empty
cartons at the supermarket once a week\month whatever.
Ten minutes spent flattening them maybe. The cutting
to size and folding would be a minute at the most, with
practice. With a sharp knife and a suitable straightedge
admittedly.
I'd imagine a lot more time is spent agonising as to how
to best fill a void in a carton, another sheet of bubblewrap
maybe - or another pour from the sack of the dreaded
polystryrene peanuts. It being accepted that rolled
up newspaper is totally unacceptable.
Plus sweeping up any spilled peanuts afterwards. Which somehow
manage to get everywhere.
To say nothing of the problems the recipient has, of knowing
what to do with all this stuff as well.
michael adams
...
>
BobFinnan.com
>Plus sweeping up any spilled peanuts afterwards. Which somehow manage to get everywhere.
Especially if you have cats, who seem to love them.
Static electricity causes them to cling to our feline friends and then
they scatter them all over the house!
...................................................
Bob Finnan
http://BobFinnan.com
...................................................
michael adams
"BobFinnan.com" <fwd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1119469587....@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> michael adams sez:
> >Plus sweeping up any spilled peanuts afterwards. Which
> >somehow manage to get everywhere.
>
> Especially if you have cats, who seem to love them.
...
Cats seem to have a natural affinity for all sorts of packing materials.
Burrowing under sheets of newspaper on the floor, pouncing on
newspapapers, bubble wrap, and string, and jumping in an out oof
empty boxes.
...
> Static electricity causes them to cling to our feline friends and then
> they scatter them all over the house!
...
If he was around, I always used to rub the velvet record cleaner on
the cat a few times before cleaning vinyl records. True.
michael adams
...
David Ames
> Believe it or not
> the posties don't care what the packaging looks like - what they
> do appreciate however, are large, clearly printed address labels
> preferably on both sides.
> ...
Actually, if you put address labels on both sides, consternation
results from trying to find the postage on the side with the
superfluous label.
> Either bubble wrap, or the dreaded plastic peanuts.
When I worked in a college bookstore a dozen years ago, the peanuts
were styrofoam, not plastic. Have times changed?
David Ames
michael adams
"David Ames" <world...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1120398072.5...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> michael adams wrote:
> > Either bubble wrap, or the dreaded plastic peanuts.
>
> When I worked in a college bookstore a dozen years ago, the
> peanuts were styrofoam, not plastic. Have times changed?
...
I think you'll find that a cursory glance at The American
Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language will confirm
that the term "plastic" refers to -
<quote>
"Any of various organic compounds produced by polymerization,
capable of being molded, extruded, cast into various shapes
and films, or drawn into filaments used as textile fibers "
http://www.bartleby.com/61/65/P0356500.html
</quote>
This to include long chain polymers such as the expanded
polystyrene which is marketed commercially by Dow Chemical
as Styrofoam
hth.
One can only conclude that this college bookstore of yours,
didn't even stock basic dictionaries.
michael adams
...
>
> David Ames
>
michael adams
"David Ames" <world...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1120398072.5...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Believe it or not
> > the posties don't care what the packaging looks like - what they
> > do appreciate however, are large, clearly printed address labels
> > preferably on both sides.
> > ...
>
> Actually, if you put address labels on both sides, consternation
> results from trying to find the postage on the side with the
> superfluous label.
...
Actually, once a package or letter has been sorted and accepted into
the system, any postal staff who handle it after that point aren't
concerned about the postage paid. Posties rooting round in their bags,
or amongst the packages in the back of their van have got rather more
pressing things to concern themselves with.
michael adams.
...
> David Ames
>
Al Smith
>>>the system, any postal staff who handle it after that point aren't
>>>concerned about the postage paid. Posties rooting round in their bags,
>>>or amongst the packages in the back of their van have got rather more
>>>pressing things to concern themselves with.
>>>
>
>
>
> Canada Post (or, more precisely, the customs employees that Canada
> Post uses) routinely "return to sender" literally thousands of
> envelopes and packages that are packaged in reused boxes (even if all
> markings are completely blacked out), if the package/envelope has the
> return address on the back (as is customary in many parts of Europe)
> or if it in any way fails to conform to any of a long list of
> specifics (most of the list is available at canadapost.com).
>
> I had 2 shipments to Canada returned by Canadian customs because the
> word "Canada" in the destination address was not capitalized correctly
> (I typed it as "Canada" when they supposedly require it to be
> "CANADA").
>
> Bill
Speaking as a Canadian, I can only say, those bastards. Blame
Canada. I've never had any trouble with Canada Post, but I have to
admit, I don't have the need to mail stuff into the country, only
out of it. They are not that fussy about packages sent from one
part of Canada to another, however; or packages sent from Canada
to the United States or England.
texas_bookseller
Hello:
I am texas_bookseller. And I would like to clear up a few matters
here. First off, ABE Books ruled on MY SIDE in this dispute with Mr.
Saler. Mr. Saler was not allowed to return the book for refund. Mr.
Saler's increasingly abusive and paranoid/psychotic emails to myself
and to ABE books staff had a great deal to do with this resolution in
my favor. As to the fundamentals of his claim, it does not resemble
the book I shipped him at all. I will not go into irrelevant detail
here, but Mr. Saler's claims grew more and more intricate and bizarre
as time went by. The book in question is printed on acid free archival
paper, for instance. Acid free archival paper is not known to have
foxing! And that book was utterly free of foxing. It also did not
have the wear he describes. I have sold many thousands of books with
nothing but satisfied customers. It is fortunate that I have never
before encountered a customer as abusive, crude and malicious as Mr.
Saler. I theorize he may have been attempting to switch a lower
quality copy of the rare book in question for my own of high quality
copy through the abuse of the ABE books complaint/return process. I
have had a few similar attempts by other customers to run this same
scam before. I heartily encourage sellers to avoid shipping ANY books
to Mr. Michael Saler! You will be in for a vituperative, time
consuming and frustrating experience that will only end with innacurate
and potentially libelous comments, such as he has made on this forum.
Again, I remind you, Mr. Saler's claims were found to be unfounded and
irrational by ABE books staff, and he lost his case, ultimately. I
have never had a bookseller account suspended or penalized for ANY such
fraudulent behavior that is claimed of me here.
thank you,
Amy M. Arsupial (my real, legal name. not a pseudonym)
Mike Wrote:
> I'd just like to report a bad experience I've had buying a book on the
> ABE from "Texas Bookseller." (This seller lists no name, phone number,
> or mailing address on his/her ABE webpage, which should have made me
> more cautious to begin with in ordering from him/her.)
>
> I purchased a copy of _In Pursuit of Valis_, which was described as
> fine/fine, for $154.95. The book arrived, and the dust-jacket was worn
> and rubbed on both front and back, with edgewear and creases to the
> spine panel.
>
> I wrote back to the bookseller, requesting a refund because the book
> was not as described. He/she immediately wrote back, telling me it was
> defintitely "fine," that he/she was an 'accredited bookseller" and I
> was not (he seems to know as much about me as he does about the
> definition "fine") and that there would be absolutely no refund. When
> I
> responded by saying that we should let the ABE be the judge, and that
> I
> would send photos of the dj to support my claim, he/she responded that
> any flaws would be the result of my deliberately damaging the book!
>
> I hope ABE will remove this person so others don't have the sort of
> unpleasant ripoff that I've had.
>
> Mike
--
texas_bookseller
texas_bookseller
jo...@rarebooksinjapan.com Wrote:
> I wrote:
>
> No such seller appears to be currently listed with ABE
> _____________________________________
>
> Found them! http://www.abebooks.com/home/3COOKIES/
>
> Seems to be a problem with the ABE search organ.
>
> So they are still there, bold as brass. My advice would be to return
> the book as soon as possible and lodge a complaint with ABE. If what
> you say so far is true, they are patently devious, so return it by
> recorded post.
>
> Unless ABE has changed its policy, there will be a kind of "three
> strikes and out" system. That means you depend upon there being at
> least two other customers out there who are as dissatisfied as you and
> as determined to obtain redress (believe me, it takes persistence!),
> and you also depend on the seller ultimately coughing up in order to
> continue listing on ABE. It's a long tough haul, but it can be done.
>
> John
> http://rarebooksinjapan.com
Hello:
thank you,
--
texas_bookseller
texas_bookseller
telicalbook Wrote:
> Here is an example of their bookgrading:
>
> "Book Description: Cambridge University Press, 1994. Hard cover. No DJ
> Issued. New. No dust jacket as issued. Sort of dirty on the front
> cover, but otherwise it is in PERFECT condition!"
>
> New is now considered a grade that can have a "sort of dirty" front
> cover.
> And since New is a grade in some minds above Fine....hmmm.....
That is NOT any example of my bookgrading. Where did you get this?
Hello:
I am texas_bookseller. And I would like to clear up a few matters here.
First off, ABE Books ruled on MY SIDE in this dispute with Mr. Saler.
Mr. Saler was not allowed to return the book for refund. Mr. Saler's
increasingly abusive and paranoid/psychotic emails to myself and to ABE
books staff had a great deal to do with this resolution in my favor. As
to the fundamentals of his claim, it does not resemble the book I
shipped him at all. I will not go into irrelevant detail here, but Mr.
Saler's claims grew more and more intricate and bizarre as time went
by. The book in question is printed on acid free archival paper, for
instance. Acid free archival paper is not know to have foxing! And that
book was utterly free of foxing. It also did not have the wear he
describes. I have many sold thousands of books with nothing but
texas_bookseller
Mike Wrote:
> Thanks, R. Totale and Al, for your good advice. I'll report back on how
> effective ABE's policy is.
>
> Mike
Hello:
I am texas_bookseller. And I would like to clear up a few matters here.
First off, ABE Books ruled on MY SIDE in this dispute with Mr. Saler.
Mr. Saler was not allowed to return the book for refund. Mr. Saler's
increasingly abusive and paranoid/psychotic emails to myself and to ABE
books staff had a great deal to do with this resolution in my favor. As
to the fundamentals of his claim, it does not resemble the book I
shipped him at all. I will not go into irrelevant detail here, but Mr.
Saler's claims grew more and more intricate and bizarre as time went
by. The book in question is printed on acid free archival paper, for
instance. Acid free archival paper is not known to have foxing! And
that book was utterly free of foxing. It also did not have the wear he
describes. I have sold many thousands of books with nothing but
texas_bookseller
Mike Wrote:
> Thanks to everybody for their advice so far. I started the "initiate
> return" procedure with the ABE, which is an automated process. But,
> since the bookseller told me he would not accept a return (and also
> told me that I was not to write him again, as that would constitute
> me that they will process a refund if he doesn't. (And this isn't much
> of an "if," since he's assured me there will be no refund: as he wrote
> to me after I told him I would be sending photos to the ABE to
> document
> my claim that his description of the book was false, "Unless you have
> damaged the book,
> it will only show how accurately and professionally
> graded it was. It is a perfect example of a FINE book....
> I am a professional accredited book appraiser, you
> Sir, are not." A completely amazing statement, given the rubs, wear,
> and creases on the dj, and foxing on the book.)
> I've written to the ABE via their online form, but have not received a
> response. I also checked their Community Forum, to see if there was a
> thread on which to post reports of fraudulent sellers, but there
> isn't.
> I guess this particular case will test ABE's efficacy in dealing with
> this sort of complaint.
>
> Mike
>
> jo...@rarebooksinjapan.com wrote:-
> I wrote:
>
> No such seller appears to be currently listed with ABE
> _____________________________________
>
> Found them! http://www.abebooks.com/home/3COOKIES/
>
> Seems to be a problem with the ABE search organ.
>
> So they are still there, bold as brass. My advice would be to return
> the book as soon as possible and lodge a complaint with ABE. If what
> you say so far is true, they are patently devious, so return it by
> recorded post.
>
> Unless ABE has changed its policy, there will be a kind of "three
> strikes and out" system. That means you depend upon there being at
> least two other customers out there who are as dissatisfied as you
> and
> as determined to obtain redress (believe me, it takes persistence!),
> and you also depend on the seller ultimately coughing up in order to
> continue listing on ABE. It's a long tough haul, but it can be done.
>
> John
texas_bookseller
Hello:
thank you,
Mike Wrote:
> I'd just like to report a bad experience I've had buying a book on the
> ABE from "Texas Bookseller." (This seller lists no name, phone number,
> or mailing address on his/her ABE webpage, which should have made me
> more cautious to begin with in ordering from him/her.)
>
> I purchased a copy of _In Pursuit of Valis_, which was described as
> fine/fine, for $154.95. The book arrived, and the dust-jacket was worn
> and rubbed on both front and back, with edgewear and creases to the
> spine panel.
>
> I wrote back to the bookseller, requesting a refund because the book
> was not as described. He/she immediately wrote back, telling me it was
> defintitely "fine," that he/she was an 'accredited bookseller" and I
> was not (he seems to know as much about me as he does about the
> definition "fine") and that there would be absolutely no refund. When
> I
> responded by saying that we should let the ABE be the judge, and that
> I
> would send photos of the dj to support my claim, he/she responded that
> any flaws would be the result of my deliberately damaging the book!
>
> I hope ABE will remove this person so others don't have the sort of
> unpleasant ripoff that I've had.
>
> Mike
Hello:
Kris Baker
"texas_bookseller" <texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com> wrote
in message news:texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com...
>
> Hello:
>
> I am texas_bookseller. And I would like to clear up a few matters
> here. First off, ABE Books ruled on MY SIDE in this dispute with Mr.
> Saler. Mr. Saler was not allowed to return the book for refund. Mr.
> Saler's increasingly abusive and paranoid/psychotic emails to myself
> and to ABE books staff had a great deal to do with this resolution in
> my favor.
All of these nasty, self-revealing posts, over a mere $155?
You do realize that the more you stir the shit, the more YOU smell?
Kris
Kris Baker
"texas_bookseller" <texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com> wrote
in message news:texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com...
>
>> Thanks, R. Totale and Al, for your good advice. I'll report back on how
>> effective ABE's policy is.
>>
>> Mike
>
> Hello:
>
> I am texas_bookseller.
...and you thought we'd want to read this AGAIN?
Mike
because I wasn't sure she would refund the money. ABE had demanded that
she accept the book for a refund, despite her claims to the contrary,
and I have the emails to prove it. Again, as should be clear from her
rants, stay awat from Amy Arsupial, "Texas_Bookseller."
Mike
Kris Baker
"Mike" <Tony...@gmail.com> wrote (nothing worth quoting)
in message news:1127919717....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Now you're making yourself look even worse.
Don't either of you GET IT? The more you rant about
each other, the more you make yourself look like a
total nutcase.
Kris
Mike
dispute, especially since ABE was very helpful in this case.
Mike
Kris Baker
"Mike" <Tony...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1127922337....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Fair enough! I just wanted to set the record straight about the ABE
> dispute, especially since ABE was very helpful in this case.
>
> Mike
It should never have gone public in the first place.
Mike
before, and wanted to warn others away from having such an experience.
Isn't what this list is for, in part -- advice from collectors to
collectors?
Mike
Kris Baker
This is not a list; this is Usenet. Nor is it to be used to slander
another.
Kris
Mike
my first posts before you profer that charge. I provided information
about my experience. Further, I got a lot of useful advice ffrom this
board on how to proceed with my complaint to ABE from my post (for
example, I didn't know that they offered a guarantee for all
purchases).
So while you may be frustrated about the tone this dispute has taken
(and I did use the word "rant" today; maybe that was harsh), I don't
think that negates the use of this board for the exchange of
information. I agree about slander -- there's too much of it here --
but I think reasonable people can avoid that.
Mike
Jon Meyers
> telicalbook Wrote:
>
>>Here is an example of their bookgrading:
>>
>>"Book Description: Cambridge University Press, 1994. Hard cover. No DJ
>>Issued. New. No dust jacket as issued. Sort of dirty on the front
>>cover, but otherwise it is in PERFECT condition!"
>>
>>New is now considered a grade that can have a "sort of dirty" front
>>cover.
>>And since New is a grade in some minds above Fine....hmmm.....
>
>
> That is NOT any example of my bookgrading. Where did you get this?
It is yours, and still listed, with the text only slightly altered:
C by Example (ISBN:0521450233)
Kalicharan, Ccst, and Kalicharan, Noel
Book Description: Cambridge University Press. Hard cover. Book
Condition: New. New. No dust jacket as issued. Sort of dirty on the
front cover, but otherwise it is in PERFECT condition! 1.01" x 9.26" x
6.18". Cambridge Computer Science Texts, 29. Bookseller Inventory #
Alibris0000022
I guess we have pretty good handle on which one of you is the liar--or
which has an egregiously poor memory.
--Jon Meyers
John Pelan
Kris:
I must respectfully disagree. The lancing of such boils on the
business is an unpleasant, but frequently necessary task. No one
complained some years ago when I warned people about the Bastard of
Leeds, and the outing of "texasbookseller" seems quite appropriate.
I've bought from and sold to Mike Saler and would commend him as
either a customer or bookseller without hesitation.
Cheers,
John
John Pelan
Uh, Kris... It's quite impossible to slander someone on Usenet.
Slander is spoken... Well, I suppose in one of the binary groups you
could do so...
Cheers,
John
Kris Baker
"John Pelan" <jpe...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:ul7mj1df8t1nmotie...@4ax.com...
OK, change it to libel ;)
Kris
Kris Baker
If it can be done in a gentler manner, I'm not going to step in
with my big mouth; it's just that these things degrade into
typical UseNet arguments that get waaaay too personal.
Kris
texas_bookseller
Wrong again, Mike. ABE had a pending debit they could hold against me
at any time, and all you had to do was return the book. You chose to
be psychotic and abusive to even the ABE staff, and *I* have the emails
to prove that. ABE ruled in my favor, and I have the emails to prove
*that* as well. Your claims do not even reflect how ABE works.
--
texas_bookseller
texas_bookseller
jpe...@qwest.net Wrote:
> But you don't list an address or phone number on your own commercial
> website. What is one to make of that?
>
> -Concerned in the Colonies
Sir, my street address is 2002-A Guadalupe St. #212, Austin, TX 78705.
I conduct all other business through email. Every book I ship has this
address on it. I have sold over 13,000 books with almost 100% customer
satisfaction rating. What do you make of *that*???
--
texas_bookseller
texas_bookseller
>
> Mike Wrote:-
> Thanks, R. Totale and Al, for your good advice. I'll report back on
> how
> effective ABE's policy is.
>
>
> Hello:
>
> I am texas_bookseller.-
>
> ....and you thought we'd want to read this AGAIN?
Multiple replies are only for the purpose of making my side of the
story easily available to google cache. Apologies if it bothered you.
Was this really the place for Mike to start all this?
--
texas_bookseller
texas_bookseller
>
> Hello:
>
> I am texas_bookseller. And I would like to clear up a few matters
> here. First off, ABE Books ruled on MY SIDE in this dispute with Mr.
> Saler. Mr. Saler was not allowed to return the book for refund. Mr.
> Saler's increasingly abusive and paranoid/psychotic emails to myself
> and to ABE books staff had a great deal to do with this resolution in
>
> All of these nasty, self-revealing posts, over a mere $155?
>
>
> Kris
Is this any of your business? Would you let your reputation be
slandered?
--
texas_bookseller
texas_bookseller
He set out to damage my spotless reputation, I am merely stating my
side of the story. Is that not fair?
--
texas_bookseller
John Pelan
<kris....@prodigyyy.net> wrote:
>
>"John Pelan" <jpe...@qwest.net> wrote in message
>news:ul7mj1df8t1nmotie...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 16:26:43 GMT, "Kris Baker"
>> <kris....@prodigyyy.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Mike" <Tony...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1127923653....@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>> I'm not so sure. I haven't had such a bad experience with an ABE seller
>>>> before, and wanted to warn others away from having such an experience.
>>>> Isn't what this list is for, in part -- advice from collectors to
>>>> collectors?
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>
>>>This is not a list; this is Usenet. Nor is it to be used to slander
>>>another.
>>>
>>>Kris
>>>
>>
>>
>> Uh, Kris... It's quite impossible to slander someone on Usenet.
>> Slander is spoken... Well, I suppose in one of the binary groups you
>> could do so...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> John
>
>OK, change it to libel ;)
>
>Kris
;-)
Sorry to be so pedantic.
John
John Pelan
That in all probability you have sold13,000 books to one clueless twit
or perhaps 1 book to 13,000 clueless twits, or perhaps a combination
thereof. The other possibility is that you're simply (a.) a clueless
newbie out of your depth, (b.) a base liar (c.) some combination of
the two. I'll be in Austin next month and look forward to viewing your
stock. Judging from your descriptions on ABE you wouldn't know the
difference between shit and creamy peanut hut.
I suspect that lunch at your house could be quite risky due to the
aforementioned.
Give up while you're still behind; you seem to be about as bright as
Chris Barker and I'm sure every it as successful.
Respond if you must, I'm just warming up...
Cheers,
John
Mike
right to return the book for a full refund, as you insisted to them (as
well as to me) that no refund would be forthcoming. As I said, after
your bizarre and hostile posts, I decided not to return the book,
suspecting that you, given your track record, would concoct a story
that would prevent my money from being refunded. There was no instance
of "psychotic and abusive" behavior on my part to you or ABE, although
ABE did tell me that you had sent numerous emails protesting their
policy.
Some Guy
That is a mail drop, in case you thought you were fooling anyone. Note
that lots of other businesses work out of the exact same address,
including one suspected spammer:
http://www.educationreview.homestead.com/
http://prentissriddle.com/riddle-resume.doc
http://www.offthekuff.com/mt/archives/003952.html
http://www.coasttocoasttickets.com/ctct_cc_auth.pdf
http://www.cuedspeech.org/sub/resources/findinstructor.asp
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1249/is_2_76/ai_98953762
http://lists.webjunction.org/wjlists/web4lib/1996-January/003158.html
http://www.woostercollective.com/events/archives/2005_01_16_archives.html
http://lizgallego.com/Folklorico_Colleges_directory.htm
etc., etc.
Kris Baker
"texas_bookseller" <texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com> wrote
in message news:texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com...
>
No. You reposted a LONG diatribe several times.
Once was enough.
More than once, and it comes across exactly the opposite
of what you intended.
Kris
Kris Baker
"texas_bookseller" <texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com> wrote
in message news:texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com...
>
>
> story easily available to google cache. Apologies if it bothered you.
> Was this really the place for Mike to start all this?
> --
> texas_bookseller
Google groups doesn't work that way. Anyone who looks
for posts from you (or with certain keywords) will see that,
on one day, you posted the same long diatribe 5 or 6 times.
Kris
Kris Baker
"texas_bookseller" <texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com> wrote
in message news:texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com...
>
>
You posted publicly. I have the right to reply.
> Would you let your reputation be slandered?
> --
> texas_bookseller
I'd respond ONCE, calmly.
But I have a rule in my own business: I give a full
refund, no questions asked. I'm still appalled that
all of this is over a mere $155.
Kris
John Pelan
$155 is probably Ms. Trailertrashbookseller's quarterly revenues.
Not a great deal of money in those later printings of Garfield...
Cheers,
John
Bud Webster
<kris....@prodigyyy.net> wrote:
> But I have a rule in my own business: I give a full
> refund, no questions asked. I'm still appalled that
> all of this is over a mere $155.
Kris, although I agree with you in principle, to many of us there's
nothing "mere" about $155.
texas_bookseller
>
> "Mike" Tony...@gmail.com wrote (nothing worth quoting)
> in message
> news:1127919717....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Now you're making yourself look even worse.
> Don't either of you GET IT? The more you rant about
> each other, the more you make yourself look like a
> total nutcase.
>
>
>
> Kris:
>
>
> I must respectfully disagree. The lancing of such boils on the
> business is an unpleasant, but frequently necessary task. No one
> Leeds, and the outing of "texasbookseller" seems quite appropriate.
> I've bought from and sold to Mike Saler and would commend him as
> either a customer or bookseller without hesitation.
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
Abebooks doesn't agree with you, John.
--
texas_bookseller
texas_bookseller
>
>
> Is this any of your business?-
>
> You posted publicly. I have the right to reply.
> Would you let your reputation be slandered?
> --
>
> I'd respond ONCE, calmly.
>
> But I have a rule in my own business: I give a full
> refund, no questions asked. I'm still appalled that
> all of this is over a mere $155.
>
> Kris
I don't give a refund when and only when it is clear I was *not going
to be getting back the same book I shipped* - remember, foxing does not
even occur on acid free, archival paper! And with his every new
complaint, there was magically something ELSE wrong with the book!
--
texas_bookseller
texas_bookseller
Mike Wrote:
> What's more, she's lying again. I decided not to return the book
> because I wasn't sure she would refund the money. ABE had demanded
> that
> she accept the book for a refund, despite her claims to the contrary,
> and I have the emails to prove it. Again, as should be clear from her
> rants, stay awat from Amy Arsupial, "Texas_Bookseller."
>
> Mike
Its you who are lying Mikey, and the proof is that ABEbooks return
policy doesn't even work in the way you just described. You need a
psychiatrist.
--
texas_bookseller
texas_bookseller
>
> "texas_bookseller" texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com
> wrote
> in message news:texas_books...@news.collectingbanter.com...-
>
>
> Is this any of your business?-
>
> You posted publicly. I have the right to reply.
> Would you let your reputation be slandered?
> --
>
> I'd respond ONCE, calmly.
>
> But I have a rule in my own business: I give a full
> refund, no questions asked. I'm still appalled that
> all of this is over a mere $155.
>
>
>
> $155 is probably Ms. Trailertrashbookseller's quarterly revenues.
>
> Not a great deal of money in those later printings of Garfield...
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> John
I have books in my inventory worth $1,000 of which only 500 copies in
Moroccan leather were ever published, thank you very much. Now go
away, troll!
--
texas_bookseller
texas_bookseller
Mike Wrote:
> Thanks, John -- these are great ideas.
>
> I received a clarification from the ABE; the customer service person
> inserted a "not" in the wrong place, and assures me that I will be
> refunded by ABE because the bookseller used ABECommerce to process the
> transaction:
>
> "I am SO sorry, I just re-read my message to you and I included the
> word "not" in a very crucial place. I meant to say that you will only
> be refunded for the original shipping and the price of the book and
> that you WON'T be refunded for the cost of return shipping, because
> she
> is disputing the reason. I apologize for the error and my horrible
> proof-reading skills.
>
> You will definitely be refunded, because Abebooks processes the credit
> card payments for this seller. But in order to be refunded you will
> have to ship the book back directly to the seller. If you can, take
> pictures of the book before you send it back to her, just to offer
> yourself some additional protection. Please, whatever you do, send
> the
> book back using a traceable method. This way all of your bases will
> be
> covered. I hope that this will be resolved quickly."
>
> Well, the book is going off to the "professional book appraiser of 23
> years experience" tomorrow, registered mail!
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> John A. Stovall wrote:-
> On 16 Jun 2005 08:39:19 -0700, "Mike" Tony...@gmail.com wrote:
> -
> I'm finding that ABE's "guarantee" may be very ambiguous. I've
> received
> polite and prompt replies from their customer service, but it seems
> they have a built-in Catch-22. The customer service person told me
> that
> the seller must refund my purchase price and shipping once I return
> the
> book for the reason "book is not as described," and the seller's
> private policy of "no returns" does not overide ABE's 30-day return
> guarantee. HOWEVER, the seller apparently does have the right to
> dispute whether or not the book is as described (!) and thus even if
> I
> return the book, the seller may not refund the money.
>
> I find this somewhat illogical, and perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but
> this is what I was told by ABE:
>
> "I reminded the seller of our Abebooks Return Policy, which cannot be
> circumvented by a Bookseller's own policy. In case you receive
> another
> e-mail from the bookseller refusing to refund you , I have provided
> the
> link to our Returns Policy page for your reference:
>
> http://www.abebooks.com/docs/Legal/returnsPolicy.shtml
>
> Sellers must accept refunds for all reasons, except for "Buyer
> Changed
> Mind." Because "Item as Not Described" is such a subjective
> situation,
> this is a reason that is often disputed. They cannot refuse to
> refund
> you, however, because they are permitted to dispute the reason of
> "Item
> Not as Described" you will probably not receive a refund for the
> price
> of the book and the original cost of shipping."
>
> So, I've written back to customer service to find out what happens if
> I
> return the book and don't receive a refund from the seller (which
> they
> admit is "probable") -- does ABE then issue a refund? Do they expell
> the seller? Have I lost $160 and the book?
>
> Will post more if I find out more.-
>
> I would suggest you start to cc: the Texas AG's Consumer division on
> your ABE correspondence. I would also stop using email and go to a
> certified return receipt letter to ABE and a copy to the AG's office.
> That show a higher level of concern than an email. You would also
> let
> the AG's office know about the book seller.
>
>
> ******************************************************
>
> "I have been a witness, and these pictures are
> my testimony. The events I have recorded should
> not be forgotten and must not be repeated."
>
> -James Nachtwey-
> http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/-
But you were NOT refunded, Mikey. Chew on that.
--
texas_bookseller