What engine is this?
christophe...@gmail.com
which kind. I or everyone I talk to can't figure that out). What
kind of engine is this? [IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/
holmquistc/IMG_0175.jpg[/IMG]<br><br>[IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/
albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0174.jpg[/IMG]
Also, do you guys have a firing engine for this? Thanks! aim,
chrisgholmquist
Lost In Space/Woodchuck
<christophe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181867910....@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
JR North
anchor. Does it run? Bet those manifolds are clogged solid by the looks
of things.
JR
christophe...@gmail.com wrote:
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
Short Wave Sportfishing
<junkjas...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Looks like a Crusader (Ford) 351. Very old, raw water cooled boat
>anchor. Does it run? Bet those manifolds are clogged solid by the looks
>of things.
My news server is acting up - I just saw this post.
I don't know much about inboards, but I've seen Chrysler 318s that
look similar - in particular that carb set up.
Then again, what do I know.
trainfan1
Distributor in front...
Not a Chevy.
Not an Olds.
Not a Pontiac.
Not a 318/340/360 Chrysler either.
Distributor at front, in intake(not timing cover), & vertical/not slanted...
Not a Buick.
Not a Cadillac.
Not a 383/400/426/440 Chrysler either.
Pretty much leaves us with FORD.
Wide manifold - high deck = 351 Windsor. The thermostat housing to the
starboard of the distributor confirms this. It's a Prestolite
distributor. 2bbl carb = ~225 hp. 4bbl carb = ~240-255 hp.
There are 4 different firing orders depending on the camshaft, & engine
rotation.
The typical 351W marine cam has a firing order of 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 for
standard rotation engines (CCW rotation as viewed from flywheel) shared
with the 5.0 HO & 351W cars.
The order is 1-8-4-5-6-2-7-3 for reverse rotation engines (CW rotation
as viewed from flywheel).
The 302 cam is rare in 351W marine applications(although it is a direct
fit), it is slightly different than the above orders:
1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 CCW
1-8-7-3-6-2-4-5 CW
Rob
Steve Barker
bolt valve covers. BUT the front distributor IS a mystery.
--
Steve Barker
<christophe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1181867910....@d30g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
jamesgangnc
"Steve Barker" <ichase...@some.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0JadndV01J4iZezb...@giganews.com...
trainfan1
> THAT is definitely NOT a ford or Chrysler with those small block Chevy 4
> bolt valve covers. BUT the front distributor IS a mystery.
>
I can't tell if they're 4 bolt or 6 bolt. Pic is too small, but they do
look like Chevy or Buick covers, and not the Ford shape...
Now I'm looking at intake, it does not have the Ford shaped runners.
Rob
trainfan1
> christophe...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hey guys. I have a 28 ft 1970s SlickCraft with a GM engine (don't ask
>> which kind. I or everyone I talk to can't figure that out). What
>> kind of engine is this? [IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/
>> holmquistc/IMG_0175.jpg[/IMG]<br><br>[IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/
>> albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0174.jpg[/IMG]
>>
>> Also, do you guys have a firing engine for this? Thanks! aim,
>> chrisgholmquist
>>
>
> Distributor in front...
>
> Not a Chevy.
>
> Not an Olds.
>
> Not a Pontiac.
>
> Not a 318/340/360 Chrysler either.
>
> Distributor at front, in intake(not timing cover), & vertical/not
> slanted...
>
> Not a Buick.
>
> Not a Cadillac.
>
> Not a 383/400/426/440 Chrysler either.
>
> Pretty much leaves us with FORD.
>
> Wide manifold - high deck = 351 Windsor.
Now I can't tell if the rocker covers are 4 bolt or 6 bolt. Pic is too
small, but they do look like Chevy or Buick covers, and not the Ford
shape...
AND now I'm looking at intake, it does not have the Ford shaped runners.
The manifold is too flat.
The layout is just like a 352 Ford, or 390/427/428 FE engines. If the
boat is older, this could be the case, but the rocker covers still look
too small for a 352.
Rob
jamesgangnc
distributor. Maybe it's the 429/460 ford block? 28 ft is big enough that
it could be some sort of big block. There is probably some casting numbers
on the intake and heads that might lead somewhere.
One thing is for sure, don't expect those old log exhaust manifolds to be
any good.
"trainfan1" <lmse...@usdatanet.net> wrote in message
news:iIWdnfYRMr8Ine_b...@usadatanet.net...
trainfan1
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0174.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0175.jpg
These are just too small. The distributor is a Prestolite.
Post some larger pictures, and tell us what makes you think it is a GM
engine.
Give all casting numbers or part numbers you can see.
Are the rocker covers 4 bolt or 6?
A side view of the cylinder heads would help, as well as a front-on view
of the timing cover.
Rob
Steve Barker
bolts in them. These valve covers are small block chevy.
--
Steve Barker
"jamesgangnc" <ja...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Tivci.270$iz5...@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Steve Barker
puny photos) that these VC's have 4 bolts.
--
Steve Barker
"trainfan1" <lmse...@usdatanet.net> wrote in message
news:8qadnV0k8-mPn-_b...@usadatanet.net...
trainfan1
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0174.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0175.jpg
> the 429/460 has valve covers about twice as wide as these and more than 4
> bolts in them. These valve covers are small block chevy.
>
Sure looks that way.
Did Grey Marine ever use Chevrolet heads on a proprietary block? This
would be the only way to get the distributor drive gear into the front
of the engine as I see it.
That distributor is right where they are on the FE blocks. I can't
think of any common wide block that shares bore spacing &/or bolt
patterns with the SBC.
Anyone?
Rob
jamesgangnc
wrote:
> the 429/460 has valve covers about twice as wide as these and more than 4
> bolts in them. These valve covers are small block chevy.
>
> --
> Steve Barker
>
>
> news:Tivci.270$iz5...@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
>
>
> > More/bigger pictures would help. The chryslers usually have a slant to
> > the distributor. Maybe it's the 429/460 ford block? 28 ft is big enough
> > that it could be some sort of big block. There is probably some casting
> > numbers on the intake and heads that might lead somewhere.
>
> > One thing is for sure, don't expect those old log exhaust manifolds to be
>
> - Show quoted text -
The more I think about it the more I remember the intake was different
on the 460 as well.
Tim
> christopherholmqu...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hey guys. I have a 28 ft 1970s SlickCraft with a GM engine (don't ask
> > which kind. I or everyone I talk to can't figure that out). What
> > kind of engine is this? [IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/
> > holmquistc/IMG_0175.jpg[/IMG]<br><br>[IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/
> > albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0174.jpg[/IMG]
>
> > Also, do you guys have a firing engine for this? Thanks! aim,
> > chrisgholmquist
>
>
> These are just too small. The distributor is a Prestolite.
>
> Post some larger pictures, and tell us what makes you think it is a GM
> engine.
>
> Give all casting numbers or part numbers you can see.
>
> Are the rocker covers 4 bolt or 6?
>
> A side view of the cylinder heads would help, as well as a front-on view
> of the timing cover.
>
> Rob
Looks to me like a small block chevy reversed. Seeing your heads are
driled for bracketing on either end, it sems like the water pump is
running off of where the flywheel "ought" to be" deffinately doesn't
look like a typical chevy water pump, but some wierd thing on a wierd
casting instead of mount.
just a guess
UglyDan®©™
Frank from Deeetroit
Looks like a smallblock chevy that is installed with the front of the engine
facing to the rear of the boat. The water pump and belts look like they are
mounted on the back of the engine and the drive shaft would be connected to
the front of the engine.
Tim
>
> Looks like a smallblock chevy that is installed with the front of the engine
> facing to the rear of the boat. The water pump and belts look like they are
> mounted on the back of the engine and the drive shaft would be connected to
> the front of the engine.
That's what I was thinking. a'la Chris craft.
Frank from Deeetroit
"Tim" <tsch...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1182004433.4...@u2g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Imagine changing the timing chain on that mess.
Tom Adkins
trainfan1
The hard way.
It's easier actually to run the engine backwards.
But this is a good explanation, except again the pics are too small to
see if that is a timing cover or a bell housing(starter & all on
flywheel) behind the water pump.
Rob
Tim
> Tom Adkins wrote:
> > Frank from Deeetroit wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, not really. The reason Chris Craft ddid that was to have the
flywheel to the front of the boat, so they could get a lower profile,
and clearence for the angle of the engine, seeing it was hooked
directly to the trans, and the prop shaft were all in line with no u-
joints or carrier berings. Or, thats the way it was described to me.
Tom
"Frank from Deeetroit" <dadur...@voyager.net> wrote in message
news:Y5-dnbGnYMWXd-7b...@comcast.com...
trainfan1
> yup. sbc, reverse mount, and it is probably in a criss craft boat also.
28 ft 1970s SlickCraft.
Rob
F.H.
> flywheel to the front of the boat, so they could get a lower profile,
> and clearence for the angle of the engine, seeing it was hooked
> directly to the trans, and the prop shaft were all in line with no u-
For most newer boats that in line set up is not important. Most
everyone now days uses u-joints and a drive shaft. There is an optimum
u-joint angle for set up but I've forgotten what it is.
Its good to have the support of rear main bearings if you have a drive
shaft hooked up that leads to a jet pump or V-drive. Circle racers
often would set up to run off the snout because the prop rotation tends
to keep the boat from lifting and sliding in the turns. Many turned to
getting the engine to run in the opposite direction because of the
weakness of the front main bearing but one has to be careful to get the
crank oil holes re-drilled because running backwards with a standard
crank the centrifugal force will tend to impair oil pressure at high
rpm's causing high dollar engines to go bye bye.
trainfan1
What size boat are you talking about?
All the Tournament, Tournament style, & Wakeboard inboards, direct &
V-drive, have no u-joints.
Rob
F.H.
My last boat was a 24' Day Cruiser with a 460 Ford and a Berkley Jet
Drive. The jet was connected to the engine via a drive shaft. Before
that I raced flat bottoms. Never saw one without a driveshaft
connecting the enging to the V-Drive. In fact, most of the driveshafts
were fairly long, by that I mean 3' or so. Boats like this:
Calif Bill
"F.H." <conn...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:yr_ci.1330$AR5.308@trnddc06...
My jet boat has a <10" drive shaft. Is a coupling to the flywheel a
U-joint, a short adapter to a 2nd U-joint and a splined coupling to the jet
input shaft. U-joints should always be in pairs at 90 degrees to each
other.
F.H.
Without the spline, engine install would be difficult to say the least.
Been a while but I seem to recall we shot for about 3 degrees on the
drive shafts in the flat bottoms and with those, (prop driven via
V-Drive) the shafts naturally tend to be longer.
trainfan1
U-joints or Poly isolation couplings?
What kind of "Jet Boat"?
Rob
trainfan1
V-drive, have no u-joints. Just shafts.
Rob
Steve Barker
--
Steve Barker
"Frank from Deeetroit" <dadur...@voyager.net> wrote in message
news:Y5-dnbGnYMWXd-7b...@comcast.com...
>
F.H.
A jet drive is basically a water pump that pulls water in from the lake
and powers the boat forward by thrusting it out the back of the boat.
The jet nozzle turns to steer the boat.
http://www.cpperformance.com/TechTips/Berkeley-Rebuild/pump-removal.htm
http://www.cpperformance.com/TechTips/principles.htm
http://www.berkeleyjet.com/
trainfan1
I owned/piloted & worked on many jet boats. I'm looking for the brand -
Boat or drive/pump - that has u-joints.
>
> http://www.cpperformance.com/TechTips/Berkeley-Rebuild/pump-removal.htm
> http://www.cpperformance.com/TechTips/principles.htm
> http://www.berkeleyjet.com/
"The (Berkeley pump) direct-drive shaft has a thrust and tail bearing.
The impeller is fixed to the shaft and completely enclosed."
But still no U-joints. What am I missing here besides u-joints?
Rob
F.H.
> I owned/piloted & worked on many jet boats.
I owned/piloted *one* jet boat and its been about 20 years. I *know*
about the flatbottoms, (prop type) I built them for myself and others as
well as raced them but my memory could be playing tricks on me with
regard to how pumps are set up. The idea with a Day Cruiser was to
*avoid* wrenching. ;) I do seem to recall a spline back there and I
know that some way of allowing for slight misalignment is necessary.
What is a Poly isolation coupling? Does it have a spline like a drive
shaft?
> I'm looking for the brand Boat or drive/pump - that has u-joints.
You mean you're in the market?
trainfan1
> trainfan1 wrote:
>
>> I owned/piloted & worked on many jet boats.
>
> I owned/piloted *one* jet boat and its been about 20 years. I *know*
> about the flatbottoms, (prop type) I built them for myself and others as
> well as raced them but my memory could be playing tricks on me with
> regard to how pumps are set up. The idea with a Day Cruiser was to
> *avoid* wrenching. ;) I do seem to recall a spline back there and I
> know that some way of allowing for slight misalignment is necessary.
Engine mounts are on adjustable screw mounts / trunnions.
http://marineengineparts.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/8-0008.jpg
http://marineengineparts.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/4417224.jpg
Alignment is done with a feeler gauge at the output flange and the
propshaft flange. It's fun. No u-joints.
> What is a Poly isolation coupling? Does it have a spline like a drive
> shaft?
"Rubber Damper":
http://www.pronautica.com.br/exportation_parts/export_pecas/Drive/imgs/Drive%20003_206.gif
It goes inside the two halves of a jet-drive coupler:
http://www.legdrag.com/images/ADA%20800%20Couplers.jpg
http://www.pronautica.com.br/exportation_parts/export_pecas/Drive/imgs/Drive%20003_216.jpg
for isolation & allowing for slight misalignment . No u-joints.
>
>
>> I'm looking for the brand Boat or drive/pump - that has u-joints.
>
> You mean you're in the market?
You mean there are none?
Rob
Calif Bill
Mine is a Jetcraft 21' Aluminum jet boat. With a 3 stage Kodiak pump.
Original power was a Ford 351W now a 350 MPI Chevy based engine. Has a
Spicer coupler with 2 U-joints. U-joints must always be used in pairs
otherwise you get a speed change on the output shaft during rotation. All
the Aluminum jet boats use basically the same setup, except for the engine
forward design and they use a jackshaft. We also adjust the engine, so
there is very little miss alignment. The splines are so if there is any
flex the shaft can move as well as side benefit easy way to pull the shaft
if needed.
trainfan1
I think that's what I'm looking for, & that makes sense in an aluminum
river boat. I've never seen U-joints in a Berkeley or Jacuzzi sport
type boat. The pump is essentially bolted up right to the flywheel
isolator.
How do the 351W & 350 SBC compare performance wise? The 351 must have
been about 240-260hp, the MPI Chevy is ~300? How much work was the swap?
Rob
Calif Bill
Performance wise, the 350 is much better. Have to be careful that I do not
cavitate the pump on stratup. Going to try a couple different impellers
when I can borrow same. At $4-800 impeller, do not want to buy and try.
The Chevy is 330 hp. the swap is really easy. I went from a 1991 Kodiak
351 to a 2004 Kodiak Marine motor. Has the same electrical plug for both.
So no wiring changes. The Ford has a different motor mount location on both
sides. The Starboard side is close enough that I just drilled the motor
mount bracket for the new mount, and had to move the Port mount forward
about 3". Since it is an MPI, I drilled the tank and added another port for
the injection return line, but since then replaced the fuel tank with a new
tank that has the return plumbed in. Bell housing in the rear is the same
mount for either engine. If I had gone with a different source for the 350
MPI, may have required some extra electrical and rear engine mount work.
christophe...@gmail.com
> Steve Barker wrote:
> > THAT is definitely NOT a ford or Chrysler with those small block Chevy 4
> > bolt valve covers. BUT the front distributor IS a mystery.
>
> I can't tell if they're 4 bolt or 6 bolt. Pic is too small, but they do
> look like Chevy or Buick covers, and not the Ford shape...
>
> Now I'm looking at intake, it does not have the Ford shaped runners.
>
> Rob
Well open the picture in your default picture viewer program and click
the "+" symbol. It shouldn't get grainier
christophe...@gmail.com
> christopherholmqu...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Hey guys. I have a 28 ft 1970s SlickCraft with a GM engine (don't ask
> > which kind. I or everyone I talk to can't figure that out). What
> > kind of engine is this? [IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/
> > holmquistc/IMG_0175.jpg[/IMG]<br><br>[IMG]http://i17.photobucket.com/
> > albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0174.jpg[/IMG]
>
> > Also, do you guys have a firing engine for this? Thanks! aim,
> > chrisgholmquist
>
> http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0174.jpghttp://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0175.jpg
>
> These are just too small. The distributor is a Prestolite.
>
> Post some larger pictures, and tell us what makes you think it is a GM
> engine.
>
> Give all casting numbers or part numbers you can see.
>
> Are the rocker covers 4 bolt or 6?
>
> A side view of the cylinder heads would help, as well as a front-on view
> of the timing cover.
>
> Rob
Ok, I'll take some bigger pictures later tonight. So take a look for
those. I know for sure its a GM because one of the guys that we had
come by to look at this found a huge GM logo on the front of the
engine.
holmq...@gmail.com
Chris' Dad here. Mr. Slikk was with Chris Craft before he started his
own brand, SlickCraft. Makes sense that he would use the same engine
layout and maybe the same supplier of engines. Here are more
pictures. The two engines look identical, but the chrome valve covers
and automatic choke indicate a later rebuild in San Diego, at
Aquamarine. The casting numbers on the block say GM and the numbers
indicate either a 327 cid or 350 cid. The 4bbl. carb is on both
engines, as are Mallory distributor, cap, coil. The belt drives in
"front" turn in opposite directions on the two engines. The two props
and shafts are direct and have no U-joints. So the mounts cant the
engine to the rear in line with the prop shafts. The valve covers
have four bolts. We have removed and reamed out the two exhaust
crossovers, which were indeed cruddy inside. The carb air cleaners
are the flame-arrestor type required on boats. This engine turns over
slowly when starting. The other starts right up on the same four
batteries.
Question: Where's the flywheel, and where's #1 cylinder? The rebuilt
engine has #1 marked on the distributor cap at the sp wire going to
right rear cylinder. If i have reverse rotation, will the #1 cylinder
be in front? Will the firing order be the same on both engines? The
rotors turn in the same direction, clockwise, on both.
Thanks a lot for your information!
RevDave
Today i take out the two-year-old gasoline and put fresh gas in.
Should help us.
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0181.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0180.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0178.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/holmquistc/IMG_0177.jpg
Apparently photobucket makes the files smaller. I took them in a
large format. The only thing I can tell you is to open them in your
computer's default image viewer program, and just enlarge it from
there.
trainfan1
> On Jun 16, 7:33 am, Tim <tschna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Frank from Deeetroit wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like a smallblock chevy that is installed with the front of the engine
>>> facing to the rear of the boat. The water pump and belts look like they are
>>> mounted on the back of the engine and the drive shaft would be connected to
>>> the front of the engine.
>> That's what I was thinking. a'la Chris craft.
>
> Chris' Dad here. Mr. Slikk was with Chris Craft before he started his
> own brand, SlickCraft. Makes sense that he would use the same engine
> layout and maybe the same supplier of engines. Here are more
> pictures. The two engines look identical, but the chrome valve covers
> and automatic choke indicate a later rebuild in San Diego, at
> Aquamarine. The casting numbers on the block say GM and the numbers
> indicate either a 327 cid or 350 cid. The 4bbl. carb is on both
> engines, as are Mallory distributor, cap, coil. The belt drives in
> "front" turn in opposite directions on the two engines.
They should.
> The two props
> and shafts are direct and have no U-joints. So the mounts cant the
> engine to the rear in line with the prop shafts. The valve covers
> have four bolts. We have removed and reamed out the two exhaust
> crossovers, which were indeed cruddy inside. The carb air cleaners
> are the flame-arrestor type required on boats. This engine turns over
> slowly when starting. The other starts right up on the same four
> batteries.
>
> Question: Where's the flywheel, and where's #1 cylinder?
Chevy 350's they are then.
The flywheel is at the distributor end of both engines. Cyl #1 is the
right rear of the flywheel-fore engine, & left front of the flywheel-aft
engine.
> The rebuilt
> engine has #1 marked on the distributor cap at the sp wire going to
> right rear cylinder. If i have reverse rotation, will the #1 cylinder
> be in front? Will the firing order be the same on both engines? The
> rotors turn in the same direction, clockwise, on both.
If one engine is turned around, both engines will be the same rotation.
The firing order, which should be cast into the intake manifolds, for
the chevy small block V8 is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2.
Rob