Sheet to Tiller self steering question .. ??
NE Sailboat
I have a tiller ,,
I read and re-read the web site info for the sheet to tiller set up.. I
still can't understand it. The pictures don't help and there are no
diagrams.
Figured one of you could explain better or send me to a site that shows
diagrams, and pictures that actually show the set up.
Roger Long
You forgot to include the link in your post. These kinds of self
steering rigs are very finicky, the king of thing you try to jury rig
after your real wind vane steerer breaks and you are facing days of
steering you hadn't planned on.
Some very long keeled boat can work pretty well with them but they
won't work very well on your Bristol 32, even if you don't sell it.
Give my regards to Captain Winchandle when you see him:)
--
Roger Long
"NE Sailboat" <tom...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:J2s%g.8604$gZ2.6181@trndny07...
NE Sailboat
Cord.
The link .. http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml
This goes back to 1974. The author, apparently wrote a book that shows how
to set this up..
And before the Windvane, this method was used by some for very long
passages.
For the life of me, the article just doesn't make sense to me. I read it
five times.
Dumb I guess.
PS .. the B32 , will be nearby this coming season ,,, maybe.. depends of
crew.
"Roger Long" <rwl...@maine.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Mws%g.66313$uH6....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Paul Cassel
> Yo .. Captain Roger .. on my Bristol 32, my self steering gear is a Bungy
> Cord.
>
> The link .. http://www.jsward.com/steering/index.shtml
>
> This goes back to 1974. The author, apparently wrote a book that shows how
> to set this up..
>
> And before the Windvane, this method was used by some for very long
> passages.
>
> For the life of me, the article just doesn't make sense to me. I read it
> five times.
>
> Dumb I guess.
>
> PS .. the B32 , will be nearby this coming season ,,, maybe.. depends of
> crew.
>
I tried this time after time on my Westsail 32 with no good results
despite reading in several places that it should work. I am very
skeptical that 'many long passages' were made this way aside from short
times off the tiller. The implication that you can leave the helm for
days while this arrangement works wasn't proved by my experiments.
-paul
Wayne.B
wrote:
>This goes back to 1974. The author, apparently wrote a book that shows how
>to set this up..
I bought the book back in the 70s and could never get it to work
either. As Roger said, it might be feasible on a heavy, long keeled
boat that is reasonably well balanced, and sails in winds of steady
strength. My boat at the time was a 28 ft fin keeler that was very
susceptible to weather helm when heeled. It wouldn't self steer worth
a darn and I ended up buying a tiller pilot which we nicknamed "Otto",
as in, Otto pilot. It was one of the best cruising investments we
ever made and the only thing I kept when we bought a bigger boat in
the 80s.
Tom Dacon
Letcher and was published in the early 70's. Go to Barnes and Noble's used
and out of print books section (www.bn.com), search on John Letcher as
author, and see if you can find a copy.
I used that book to set up sheet to tiller steering on the 28' 3/4 keel
sloop that I owned back then, and it worked great. Wouldn't steer straight
down wind, of course, but on a beam reach to a beat it worked just fine.
Unless the boat got thrown way off course by a wave, it steered like a
champ. I'd set it up and sit back and read while it steered the boat. I
don't remember now, after all this time, how far aft the wind could be
before it stopped working, but it seems to me that the wind could be a fair
distance aft of the beam.
Best regards,
Tom Dacon
"NE Sailboat" <tom...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:J2s%g.8604$gZ2.6181@trndny07...
Wayne.B
<TomN...@NOSPAM-dacons.com> wrote:
>There's a really good book that describes how to do this. It's by John
>Letcher and was published in the early 70's. Go to Barnes and Noble's used
>and out of print books section (www.bn.com), search on John Letcher as
>author, and see if you can find a copy.
Been there, bought the book and done that. YMMV, but it didn't work
for me. Interesting book however.
Lauri Tarkkonen
Different boat behave differently in different directions of wind and sea
conditions. I have a 40" sloop, keel base some 7", so it is no long
keeler, but on a beat it steers nicely with a piece of rope from the
tiller to the windward rail. On the run I would not even dream of
letting it be more than about 10 seconds unattended with a passive self
steering, but my windvane is capable of steering for days. The longest
time I have sailed with the "string-steering" (hard on wind) is 22
hours, without anybody touching the helm. Then we had to tack, because
there was an Island in front of us.
The idea of having the the steering force from a sheet, is based on the
possibility that the pressure of the sheet can be balanced with the
pressure of the tiller. If the boat bears down there will be more
pressure and when the baot luffs up there will be less pressure and the
sail, usually the jib, either pulls the helm to windward or lets it down
to leeward. For this to work there must be certain amount of weather
helm, and the pressure of the wind on the jib must equal the need to
keep the tiller in proper position. It should be clear without saying,
that it is not easy to achieve this balance and the friction of the
ropes must be such, that it on other hand dampens some of the action,
but on the other hand is sensitive enough to react properly, not too
much and not too little.
Some boats will keep their course on certain conditions for hours, if
you just tie the tiller (or wheel) down, but most modern boats are a bit
too lively to do it on other courses than hard on wind.
- Lauri Tarkkonen
NE Sailboat
So, you have used it ... ok ok ... what and where does the jib sheet attach
to? Say we go with a starboard tack.
Wind from abeam to a beat... the sheet on the port side will be tight,
right. // the sheet on the starboard side is loose, right?
If the boat pulls into the wind { to starboard } the tiller is pulled to
port, right? So, this means that something must pull the tiller back to
starboard to keep the boat from pulling into the wind, right?
How is pressure applied to the windward side of the tiller ?? Is that the
stretch tuding that pulls it back to windward side?
I did this last summer with a bungy cord. I got her on course, attached my
cord and when the boat pulled into the wind the cord would pull a little.
Could hole a course for a few minutes, not long. But this was not a very
good set up.
If she would hold for one half an hour that would be great. Give me lots of
time to do other things.
If you could try to explain just a little better ... please?
"Tom Dacon" <TomN...@NOSPAM-dacons.com> wrote in message
news:12jtmvp...@corp.supernews.com...
Chi Chi
Wayne.B
wrote:
>perhaps you needed a stiffer bungie cord?
One of the points that Letcher makes in his book, is that bungie cord
makes a lousy spring because of its non linear stretch
characteristics. He recommends surgical tubing instead.
That made sense to me so I went out to my local drug store, endured
their 3rd degree questioning regarding purpose, and took it to the
boat.
It didn't work either.
NE Sailboat
On the lee side of the boat, away from the wind, the sheet gets pulled
tight, usually wrapped around a winch and then pulled tight and cleated.
On the wind side of the boat the sheet ( I am talking jib here ) is left
loose.. until the boat is tacked and then that side gets pulled in..
Now, if the tiller is attached to an elastic line, to a cleat ... ( like my
bungy cord system ) ,, the tiller needs to be controled from pulling into
the wind.. Or, on a starboard tack ,,,, the tiller needs to be controled
from moving to the direction of port .. that way the boat doesn't turn into
the wind..
Ok ok ok ... so how does the sheet on the loose side come into play, ,,
or does it?
This is what has me confused.... only one side has a tight sheet or a sheet
under pressure. Is the pressure side controling the non pressure side?
================
Even though this might not work... I must admit some interest after my bungy
cord system.
==================
I would love to get a wind vane system ............ but at $3,000 ???
Probably won't happen.
I wonder if there is a Poor Man's Wind Vane... a system that could use the
apparent wind to steer and the controls would go to the tiller in the
cockpit.
=========
"Wayne.B" <waynebatr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:l1jvj21s54bk6oq9c...@4ax.com...
Lauri Tarkkonen
>I would love to get a wind vane system ............ but at $3,000 ???
>Probably won't happen.
>I wonder if there is a Poor Man's Wind Vane... a system that could use the
>apparent wind to steer and the controls would go to the tiller in the
>cockpit.
The problem is that if you want a windvane that works in almost any
conditions and lasts for years and years and does not let you down when
you have gone in the cabib to make some coffee and sandwiches or to goo
to the loo, then it is not a cheap system to build.
If you think that the power generated by the wind will be the one used
to actually steer the boat, then you need some wind or your wane must be
very big. In the best windvanes the steering action is geretade by the
boats speed through the water with a servo pendulum oar and the wind is
just controlling the angle of this oar to the water.
They say, that a poor man can not afford to buy cheap,he must buy
quality.
I would not recommend anyone to depend on a cheapo windvane, this does
not mean, that one should not be avare of ways to make tackles for
temporary use, as it is possible you need it for various reasons while
underway.
- Lauri Tarkkonen
NE Sailboat
Yes, a wind vane that will work in all conditions must be of high quality,
and probably expensive..
No, a wind vane that will work ok, but not great, and won't be used in all
conditions, just something to take the edge off.
That is why I got looking at the sheet to tiller self steering system. Not
for going around the world, just a system to take the edge off along the
coast of New England.
The question in my mind is: what did the lone sailors do before the wind
vane? How did Joshua Slocum steer the Spray?
Did they tie off the helm? And if yes, how long would the boat stay on
course?
As far as the "Vane" part of the system goes, even a dope like me can make
that. It is the stainless and pendulem etc that gets the trouble going.
Couldn't a vane be set up that would work with the tiller, but not a
permanent system?
I'm looking for the one hour wind vane. One hour to go below, take a s...t,
eat, grab some charts, change the music, get a wine for the boss,
............ then back top, sit behind the helm ,,..... and wait for boss
to drink said wine,,,,, then boss will get hot and come sit next to
helmsman,,,,,, and then .............................. ???????????????????
another hour of self steering is called for.
==============================
"Lauri Tarkkonen" <tark...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:ehopsq$i1e$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
Paul Cassel
> Lauri,,, I agree and disagree ... both.
>
> Yes, a wind vane that will work in all conditions must be of high quality,
> and probably expensive..
>
> No, a wind vane that will work ok, but not great, and won't be used in all
> conditions, just something to take the edge off.
>
> That is why I got looking at the sheet to tiller self steering system. Not
> for going around the world, just a system to take the edge off along the
> coast of New England.
>
> The question in my mind is: what did the lone sailors do before the wind
> vane? How did Joshua Slocum steer the Spray?
>
steer ok once so balanced.
Beats me why you are making yourself crazy here. Many have told you that
we tried and it didn't work. Lauri did try and it worked so that means
it doesn't work for all boats and I'll tell you it won't work nearly as
well as a tiller master or vane.
How many replies saying we tried and it didn't work will it take?
DSK
>>I would love to get a wind vane system ............ but at $3,000 ???
>>Probably won't happen.
>
If $3k seems like an impossible dream, then perhaps you
could never really afford a cruising boat anyway.
>
>>I wonder if there is a Poor Man's Wind Vane... a system that could use the
>>apparent wind to steer and the controls would go to the tiller in the
>>cockpit.
>
It certainly would be. Ya just gotta know how!
Lauri Tarkkonen wrote:
> The problem is that if you want a windvane that works in almost any
> conditions and lasts for years and years and does not let you down when
> you have gone in the cabib to make some coffee and sandwiches or to goo
> to the loo, then it is not a cheap system to build.
>
It need not be very expensive though (in terms of what boat
stuff costs, anyway). The main expense would be getting the
frame strong & rigid enough, and after that, providing low
friction bearings to reduce working drag down to the point
where there is sufficient power to control the helm.
> If you think that the power generated by the wind will be the one used
> to actually steer the boat, then you need some wind or your wane must be
> very big. In the best windvanes the steering action is geretade by the
> boats speed through the water with a servo pendulum oar and the wind is
> just controlling the angle of this oar to the water.
>
Exactly. The geometry of these must be very cleverly worked
out in coordination with the boat's steering characteristics.
> They say, that a poor man can not afford to buy cheap,he must buy
> quality.
>
Or know how to make his own.
> I would not recommend anyone to depend on a cheapo windvane, this does
> not mean, that one should not be avare of ways to make tackles for
> temporary use, as it is possible you need it for various reasons while
> underway.
>
It's easy enough to go astray with top quality equipment.
Gear that is difficult to set on course properly, does not
follow a course accurately, is quirky about what condition
it will work at all, suffer minor breakdowns, etc etc, will
be more aggravation & potential hazard than it's worth.
Fresh Breezes- Doug King
Lauri Tarkkonen
>Lauri,,, I agree and disagree ... both.
>Yes, a wind vane that will work in all conditions must be of high quality,
>and probably expensive..
>No, a wind vane that will work ok, but not great, and won't be used in all
>conditions, just something to take the edge off.
Then you use it mainly in nice and easy conditions.
>That is why I got looking at the sheet to tiller self steering system. Not
>for going around the world, just a system to take the edge off along the
>coast of New England.
>The question in my mind is: what did the lone sailors do before the wind
>vane? How did Joshua Slocum steer the Spray?
>Did they tie off the helm? And if yes, how long would the boat stay on
>course?
If you reaad Joshua Slocums book about his circumnavigation he just tied
the tiller down. He said Spray would keep it's course for days.
>As far as the "Vane" part of the system goes, even a dope like me can make
>that. It is the stainless and pendulem etc that gets the trouble going.
I believe that if you look around you will find some stores that sell
various components for shelfs and storage systems and tarpaulin
supports, that have tubes and different kind of angled and straight
joining elements, so you can build anything you want.
>Couldn't a vane be set up that would work with the tiller, but not a
>permanent system?
There are some laws in physics about the energy, there are systems that
use the power created by the wane to steer the boat, but the wane is
then a small sail. Look more carefully to the system Sir Francis
Chichester used on his journeys.
>I'm looking for the one hour wind vane. One hour to go below, take a s...t,
>eat, grab some charts, change the music, get a wine for the boss,
>............ then back top, sit behind the helm ,,..... and wait for boss
>to drink said wine,,,,, then boss will get hot and come sit next to
>helmsman,,,,,, and then .............................. ???????????????????
>another hour of self steering is called for.
It is hard to make any realistic proposals without knowing more about
your boat. On the wind it should be easy just by using a shockcord or a
piece of rope, on a reach or a run it is more complicated. The
electronic tiller pilots are just done for this purpose and even the
small ones will do on nice conditions and then they do not draw too much
energy to ruin your batteries.
- Lauri Tarkkonen
Lauri Tarkkonen
>> "NE Sailboat" writes:
>>>I would love to get a wind vane system ............ but at $3,000 ???
>>>Probably won't happen.
>>
>If $3k seems like an impossible dream, then perhaps you
>could never really afford a cruising boat anyway.
>>
>>>I wonder if there is a Poor Man's Wind Vane... a system that could use the
>>>apparent wind to steer and the controls would go to the tiller in the
>>>cockpit.
>>
>It certainly would be. Ya just gotta know how!
>Lauri Tarkkonen wrote:
>> The problem is that if you want a windvane that works in almost any
>> conditions and lasts for years and years and does not let you down when
>> you have gone in the cabib to make some coffee and sandwiches or to goo
>> to the loo, then it is not a cheap system to build.
>>
>It need not be very expensive though (in terms of what boat
>stuff costs, anyway). The main expense would be getting the
>frame strong & rigid enough, and after that, providing low
>friction bearings to reduce working drag down to the point
>where there is sufficient power to control the helm.
Do the low friction bearings come cheap? I thougt that here the price is
related the other way around, the more friction the cheaper. :-).
>> If you think that the power generated by the wind will be the one used
>> to actually steer the boat, then you need some wind or your wane must be
>> very big. In the best windvanes the steering action is geretade by the
>> boats speed through the water with a servo pendulum oar and the wind is
>> just controlling the angle of this oar to the water.
>>
>Exactly. The geometry of these must be very cleverly worked
>out in coordination with the boat's steering characteristics.
The geometry is worked out and with the tiller you have a continuous
adjustment, because you can attach the line pulling the tiller in
different postiions of the tiller, giving you control of the lever arm.
>> They say, that a poor man can not afford to buy cheap,he must buy
>> quality.
>>
>Or know how to make his own.
>> I would not recommend anyone to depend on a cheapo windvane, this does
>> not mean, that one should not be avare of ways to make tackles for
>> temporary use, as it is possible you need it for various reasons while
>> underway.
>>
>It's easy enough to go astray with top quality equipment.
>Gear that is difficult to set on course properly, does not
>follow a course accurately, is quirky about what condition
>it will work at all, suffer minor breakdowns, etc etc, will
>be more aggravation & potential hazard than it's worth.
This something I try to say, if you want a windvane, get a proper one,
if you want something to carry your boat while you are in the loo, a
tiller pilot is doing a decent job, and it doing it reasonably cheap,
I have a good windvane, but while motoring and if I want just a
temporary relief from the helm, I use the tillerpilot. If I know I am
going to sail for the next few hour or more, I rig the windvane.
- Lauri Tarkkonen
NE Sailboat
Did I say I could not afford $3k, or did I say that it would not be a good
investment for me as I am not planning a long ocean voyage.
If I am going to spend $3k, I want to spend it wisely. Where I moored last
summer there were numerous boats with wind vane systems, wind vane systems
that never ever got used. Dah ???
So, I posted for info about a less expensive and less reliable system; the
sheet to tiller system.
Now I am Mr Cheapo.
Sometimes I wonder ,, I really do.
===================================
"DSK" <d...@dontbotherme.com> wrote in message
news:btS%g.40318$vi3....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Lauri Tarkkonen
>Did I say I could not afford $3k, or did I say that it would not be a good
>investment for me as I am not planning a long ocean voyage.
>If I am going to spend $3k, I want to spend it wisely. Where I moored last
>summer there were numerous boats with wind vane systems, wind vane systems
>that never ever got used. Dah ???
>So, I posted for info about a less expensive and less reliable system; the
>sheet to tiller system.
>Now I am Mr Cheapo.
So far I know how to read, you were the one taking the word "cheap" into
the discussion. If we do not know about systems that work and are
reliable in various conditions and advice againts cheap solutions, I do
not see any reason to be offended.
There are always people who believe that they can by good and cheap, but
in most cases if you want to have GOOD and CHEAP, you end up needing two
things.
It is your prerogative to make whatever you please with your boat and
money, but if you do not like the advice or comments on this list,
remember they are at least cheap.
>Sometimes I wonder ,, I really do.
So I wonder sometimes why people bother to give any advise here.
- Lauri Tarkkonen
Wayne.B
wrote:
>The question in my mind is: what did the lone sailors do before the wind
>vane? How did Joshua Slocum steer the Spray?
Their routes were carefully chosen to be dead down wind or nearly so.
You can do that if you are going around the world, much harder
Portland, ME to Portsmouth, NH.
They would typically use a double head sail rig: Two jibs wung-out on
opposite sides, each with its own pole. The jib sheet on each side
would be led aft to a turning block, and then tied to the tiller. As
the boat would begin to head up too much in one direction or the
other, jib sheet tension would increase on one side and decrease on
the other, thus pulling the tiller in the correct direction to head
down wind again.
>
>Did they tie off the helm? And if yes, how long would the boat stay on
>course?
Yes. They could go downwind for days and weeks at a time with little
or no adjustment.
Wayne.B
wrote:
>So I wonder sometimes why people bother to give any advise here.
Good question.
Tom, AKA alias du jour, is good on questions, bad on well intentioned
advice. He's a challenge, and is easily confused by the facts.
DSK
> Do yourself a huge favor and ignore DSK. He's a well known and well worn usenet
> failure. His knowlege is all from a book, and we are not sure he even has the
> right book. He diesn't know anything firsthand about this subject.
>
People who have experience & knowledge can judge for
themselves whether I know anything about this (or other
sailing/cruising subjects).
Since you think I "have no experience" that shows 2 things-
how sound your judgement is (or isnt) and also your own
level of knowledge/experience.
DSK
NE Sailboat
where I responded to a personal attack by one poster who questioned my right
to own a cruising sailboat because I thought spending $3k on a wind vane was
not a wise investment .......
I never used, nor did I write, nor post the word "cheap"
Check the postings...
As for or to the postings saying the sheet to tiller system of self steering
does not work .. that may be the case or it may not be the case.
I discovered one web page of an owner of a 28' sailboat that swears by his
sheet to tiller self steering system. He admits that it does not work on
all points of sail, nor does it work as well as an expensive windvane
system, but; he is satisfied with his system and he sails a bit offshore.
The attraction to the cruising newsgroup is the diverse opinion and the give
and take.
If the answer was always ... "you should not own a boat because you don't
have lots of money like I do"
Then, the newsgroup would be very poor.
===========================
"Lauri Tarkkonen" <tark...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
news:ehouov$jdu$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
Lauri Tarkkonen
>Lauri ,,, I just checked.. in all the postings about this subject except
>where I responded to a personal attack by one poster who questioned my right
>to own a cruising sailboat because I thought spending $3k on a wind vane was
>not a wise investment .......
>I never used, nor did I write, nor post the word "cheap"
>Check the postings...
Some one here were asking for a poor mans... you may check your postings
yourself.
I have not said anything about what you should do with your money or
take any opinion if you should own a boat or not.
In your original poist, that I commented, you did not tell us, that you
did not mind if the thing did not work.
I still am entitled to my opinion that it does not make sense to buy or
make a windvane that has very limited use.
If someone is happy with his steering system that works if the
conditions are right, you may follow his advice.
I am sorry to pay some attention to your enquiry.
- Lauri Tarkkonen
Mark Borgerson
> Lauri,,, I agree and disagree ... both.
>
> Yes, a wind vane that will work in all conditions must be of high quality,
> and probably expensive..
>
> No, a wind vane that will work ok, but not great, and won't be used in all
> conditions, just something to take the edge off.
>
> That is why I got looking at the sheet to tiller self steering system. Not
> for going around the world, just a system to take the edge off along the
> coast of New England.
>
> The question in my mind is: what did the lone sailors do before the wind
> vane? How did Joshua Slocum steer the Spray?
The Spray had several advantages that you might lack when it comes
to setting up the boat to self-steer:
1. A full keel to make the boat more stable in holding a course.
2. A yawl rig.
The yawl (or a ketch) rig makes it easier to balance the sails for
limited self steering.
>
> Did they tie off the helm? And if yes, how long would the boat stay on
> course?
I was able to keep my Islander 24 (full keel sloop) on course for
15 to 20 minutes in light seas and moderate winds by doing the
following:
1. Trim the sails for a moderate amount of weather helm
2. Attach a bungee cord from the tiller to the weather
cockpit coaming.
3 run the main sheet through a block on the leeward cockpit
coaming and to a jam cleat on the tiller. (4-part tackle
on the mainsheet)
3. Adjust tension on the bungee cord until it pulled hard
enough to overcome the weather helm and mainsheet pull.
If the boat fell off to leeward, the extra strain on the
mainsheet overcame the bungee and pulled the tiller to leeward.
If the boat pointed too high, reduced tension on the main
sheet allowed the bungee to pull the helm to weather.
This system worked only over a narrow range of courses and
wind speeds. I could go below for a few minutes if the
wind was somewhere between 30 degrees off the bow to
about 20 degrees aft of the beam. With some watching
and tweaking, it could get me time to eat lunch and
read a guide book or charts for a while.
I would never trust it with the wind further aft for fear
of an unintentional jibe.
I did try one of the simply plywood vanes with lines to
the tiller for a while. It never worked very well except
under optimum conditions. In light winds, there
was just too little energy to pull the tiller lines.
I never did take that boat very far offshore, and traffic
in San Francisco Bay wasn't very amenable to an
untended helm in any case, so the bungee/tiller/sheet
arrangement served for head calls and snacks.
If the winds were light and aft of the beam, heaving to
was the alternative.
<<SNIP>>
Mark Borgerson
NE Sailboat
"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote in message
news:2941k2h0orj8l0mvj...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:51:32 -0400, DSK <d...@dontbotherme.com> wrote:
>
> Okay, Doug. Please describe the windvane setup on your own sailboat. Oh,
> you
> don't have a windvane OR a sailboat? Well, can you then describe the
> windvane on
> a sailboatt you USED to have? Oh, you've never had a sailboat with a
> windvane?
> Okay... What's that Doug? You say that your crusing in sailboats consisted
> of
> dragging a Hunter 19 on a trailer down the highway? WOW!
>
> CWM
=========================
Charlie ,, you are a cruel man ... but I must say I am laughing out loud.
Old DSK must be smoking after your posting.
Rig for ramming speed.
======================
I have been making progress in the self steering department ....
It seems that the sheet to tiller self steering is not the best system, but
if it will work for a short time, that is all I need.
I have read lots and lots of info on the wind vane, very interesting
reading. While some swear by them, others go on and on about the problems
of weight, blah blah blah ... I might even get one some time but I am not
in need of one at this time.
See ya
Wayne.B
wrote:
>I have read lots and lots of info on the wind vane, very interesting
>reading. While some swear by them, others go on and on about the problems
>of weight, blah blah blah ... I might even get one some time but I am not
>in need of one at this time.
For day sailing and coastal cruising you will get a lot more utility
from an electronic tiller pilot - much less expensive, easy to set up,
works in light wind, down wind, no wind and under power.
As an added benefit they do not eat, drink or complain.
NE Sailboat
"As an added benefit they do not eat, drink or complain."
Helloooooooo ... Wayne ..... ????
I am a man! As such, I put up with EAT, DRINK, COMPLAIN ......... to get
^%$#&*!
Humping a windvane is really not that much fun. And the sheet to tiller
self steering system? Last time a checked, no one has posted that the
system has a nice ass.
Now ... if I have a self steering system and a {&(*&^%} who wants to eat,
drink, and complain but also wants to &*&^%$#$
Wayne! You have provided the answer. After numerous postings, arguments,
contentious ravings, ... you have hit on the answer to the self steering
system question.
Paris Hilton! The Paris Hilton Self Steering Sheet to Tiller, Wind-Vane
system!
When your yacht is rigged with the PH, no need to leave the dock or mooring.
Therefore, no need for a steering system at all.
And it comes with the famous PH bumper sticker: WHEN THIS BOATS A ROCKIN,
PH HAS COME A KNOCKN
Thank you Wayne!
=======================
"Wayne.B" <waynebatr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:q5h1k29lfvh9df52u...@4ax.com...
steve_hayes_maine
but there are directions for a DIY wind vane at
http://www.mindspring.com/~waltmur/Self-Steering/. Apparently you can
mount it to plywood that then gets attached to the transom for a test
drive. If you have the time and desire, and don't want to spend a lot
of money (and don't plan to sleep while it's working), you might try
this.
Steve Hayes
Augusta, Maine
steve_hayes_maine
Scotty
"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote in message
>
> Do yourself a huge favor and ignore DSK. He's a well known
and well worn usenet
> failure. His knowlege is all from a book, and we are not
sure he even has the
> right book. He diesn't know anything firsthand about this
subject.
Do yourself a bigger favour and PLONK Charlie Morgan. He is
a vindictive little twerp. He has wished death upon a fellow
sailor. He even faked his own death on another NG and
laughed at the people after they sent condolences.
--
Scott Vernon
Plowville Pa _/)__/)_/)_
DSK
> Okay, Doug. Please describe the windvane setup on your own sailboat. Oh, you
> don't have a windvane OR a sailboat? Well, can you then describe the windvane on
> a sailboatt you USED to have?
Sure.
An Aries on a Saga 43, mounted slightly off center.
Then I have also used an English built windvane on a Whitby
42 ketch.
The first wind vane I ever used, I built myself and used on
a series of boats. One was a bubble-top Columbia 26, another
was the King's Cruiser owned by my father.
> .... Oh, you've never had a sailboat with a windvane?
What gives you that idea?
> Okay... What's that Doug? You say that your crusing in sailboats consisted of
> dragging a Hunter 19 on a trailer down the highway? WOW!
>
Not only that, I have a buddy who claims to have radar on a
C&C 27.
DSK
Chi Chi
out this crap I don't think the group needs or wants to read this garbage.
"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote in message
>
> CWM
DSK
>>C&C 27.
>
Charlie Morgan wrote:
> Took you quite a while to come up with this fantasy.
Is this your clever little way of admitting that you don't
really have radar, or that you don't really have a C&C 27?
As for "how long," did you sit around waiting for me to post
a reply so you could jump on it in less than 20 minutes? I
actually have a life.
DSK
Wayne.B
wrote:
>I am a man! As such, I put up with EAT, DRINK, COMPLAIN ......... to get
>^%$#&*!
Trust me on this one, if you have a tiller pilot you will have more
time for that.
Nothing like a little R & R while Otto drives the boat.
NE Sailboat
me to make sure I am dead!
======================
How can you plonk a guy named Charlie Morgan? Isn't that a famous yachting
name? Morgan yachts?
What if it is THE CHARLIE MORGAN?
================================
"Scotty" <Sco...@Seidelmann.com> wrote in message
news:qbOdnY2orIKVQt3Y...@dejazzd.com...
Scotty
"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote in message
>
> My heineous "crime" was to point out that Doug King is not
nearly the expert he
> would like everyone to believe he is. He has a massive
ego, that dwarfs his
> knowledge. What I posted about his cruising experience was
absolutely true. He
> had a 19 foot hunter on a trailer that he would cruise at
55 mph down the
> highway and plop it in various places for day sails and
overnights. When it came
> time to buy his "real" cruising boat, he bought a clapped
out 36 foot single
> screw TRAWLER. Doug is not that old or infirm, he just has
a wife who calls all
> the shots. He's pretty pitiful. There is a puppy dog named
Scotty who follows
> him around trying to defend him wherever he goes. I guess
Doug is maybe a bit
> limp wristed, too... if you know what I mean. His wife is
pretty manly looking.
Whatsa matta Chuckie, did Doug hurt your feelings? You
sound like a jealous, spiteful grade school dunce.
Bark, bark
Scotty
NE Sailboat
A Trawler yacht ,, that is a MOTOR BOAT. Oh , the shame of it all.
Having a manly looking wife can be a great comfort though. She probably can
pull in the anchor, dock lines, etc.
My new bride, the former Paris Hilton, can't do anything except &^%$#. And,
she does that with every Captain in the harbor!
But ,,, I still love her.
Tally ho.... fair winds, or good gas ( that is what trawler guys say, isn't
it ).
"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote in message
news:9cc2k25tt8khalr9o...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 20:25:33 GMT, "NE Sailboat" <tom...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Wow ,, that is soooo cool.... If I do that Roger Long will show up and
>>kick
>>me to make sure I am dead!
>>
>>======================
>>
>>How can you plonk a guy named Charlie Morgan? Isn't that a famous
>>yachting
>>name? Morgan yachts?
>>
>>What if it is THE CHARLIE MORGAN?
>>
>
> Don't worry about it, NE. If you want to plonk me because some nitwit
> ordered
> you to, go right ahead. It will hurt you more than it will hurt me.
>
> My heineous "crime" was to point out that Doug King is not nearly the
> expert he
> would like everyone to believe he is. He has a massive ego, that dwarfs
> his
> knowledge. What I posted about his cruising experience was absolutely
> true. He
> had a 19 foot hunter on a trailer that he would cruise at 55 mph down the
> highway and plop it in various places for day sails and overnights. When
> it came
> time to buy his "real" cruising boat, he bought a clapped out 36 foot
> single
> screw TRAWLER. Doug is not that old or infirm, he just has a wife who
> calls all
> the shots. He's pretty pitiful. There is a puppy dog named Scotty who
> follows
> him around trying to defend him wherever he goes. I guess Doug is maybe a
> bit
> limp wristed, too... if you know what I mean. His wife is pretty manly
> looking.
>
> CWM
>
>
Scotty
"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote
> >Is this your clever little way of admitting that you
don't
> >really have radar, or that you don't really have a C&C
27?
>
>
> Looks like a 27-5 with RADAR to me?
Idiot posting a jpg on a NG !
DSK
>>stuff costs, anyway). The main expense would be getting the
>>frame strong & rigid enough, and after that, providing low
>>friction bearings to reduce working drag down to the point
>>where there is sufficient power to control the helm.
>
Lauri Tarkkonen wrote:
> Do the low friction bearings come cheap? I thougt that here the price is
> related the other way around, the more friction the cheaper. :-).
>
Well, sure. All the way down to a rock, which is max
friction but free ;)
The first couple of cheapo rigs I tried had too much
friction. Then I just used a bicycle hub... lasted only a
couple weeks in the salt water, but if you buy a cheap
2nd-hand bike (or steal one) it comes with a spare.
>
> The geometry is worked out and with the tiller you have a continuous
> adjustment, because you can attach the line pulling the tiller in
> different postiions of the tiller, giving you control of the lever arm.
>
Right, but unless your tiller in infinitely long, the system
has to generate enough force to move it against weather helm
(up to a point).
There is a clever windvane rig I saw some time ago that used
a tiller pilot for an actuator, and would follow the wind or
the compass depending on which you chose.
> I have a good windvane, but while motoring and if I want just a
> temporary relief from the helm, I use the tillerpilot. If I know I am
> going to sail for the next few hour or more, I rig the windvane.
>
One of the issues with using a windvane on some boats is
that they generate apparent wind, and can wander all over
the place as the accelerate & decelerate. I heard a story
about a fellow who fitted one to a reasonably fast cruising
cat, and with every gust the boat would accelerate & bear
away, until suddenly it stalled and would almost come to a
stop, and refuse to resume course.
Tiller pilots don't do that, although they do have some
other annoying shortcomings ;)
DSK
Garland Gray II
normally would, but the jib, w/ a club foot I believe, was sheeted in tight.
When the main caused Spray to head up, the jib would force her head back
down. Helm was probably lashed.
I suspect that sheet to tiller requires so much trial and effort that one
turns to other means. But as in many things, if there are no other options,
one would be more determined to make the solution at hand work.
"NE Sailboat" <tom...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:ebS%g.7278$ke4.1160@trndny02...
> Lauri,,, I agree and disagree ... both.
>
> Yes, a wind vane that will work in all conditions must be of high quality,
> and probably expensive..
>
> No, a wind vane that will work ok, but not great, and won't be used in all
> conditions, just something to take the edge off.
>
> That is why I got looking at the sheet to tiller self steering system.
> Not for going around the world, just a system to take the edge off along
> the coast of New England.
>
> The question in my mind is: what did the lone sailors do before the wind
> vane? How did Joshua Slocum steer the Spray?
>
> Did they tie off the helm? And if yes, how long would the boat stay on
> course?
>
> As far as the "Vane" part of the system goes, even a dope like me can make
> that. It is the stainless and pendulem etc that gets the trouble going.
>
> Couldn't a vane be set up that would work with the tiller, but not a
> permanent system?
>
> I'm looking for the one hour wind vane. One hour to go below, take a
> s...t, eat, grab some charts, change the music, get a wine for the boss,
> ............ then back top, sit behind the helm ,,..... and wait for
> boss to drink said wine,,,,, then boss will get hot and come sit next to
> helmsman,,,,,, and then ..............................
> ??????????????????? another hour of self steering is called for.
>
>
> ==============================
> "Lauri Tarkkonen" <tark...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message
> news:ehopsq$i1e$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi...
>> In <woR%g.4294$Wp3.2820@trndny05> "NE Sailboat" <tom...@verizon.net>
>> writes:
>>
>>>I would love to get a wind vane system ............ but at $3,000 ???
>>>Probably won't happen.
>>
>>>I wonder if there is a Poor Man's Wind Vane... a system that could use
>>>the
>>>apparent wind to steer and the controls would go to the tiller in the
>>>cockpit.
>>
>> The problem is that if you want a windvane that works in almost any
>> conditions and lasts for years and years and does not let you down when
>> you have gone in the cabib to make some coffee and sandwiches or to goo
>> to the loo, then it is not a cheap system to build.
>>
>> If you think that the power generated by the wind will be the one used
>> to actually steer the boat, then you need some wind or your wane must be
>> very big. In the best windvanes the steering action is geretade by the
>> boats speed through the water with a servo pendulum oar and the wind is
>> just controlling the angle of this oar to the water.
>>
>> They say, that a poor man can not afford to buy cheap,he must buy
>> quality.
>>
>> I would not recommend anyone to depend on a cheapo windvane, this does
>> not mean, that one should not be avare of ways to make tackles for
>> temporary use, as it is possible you need it for various reasons while
>> underway.
>>
>> - Lauri Tarkkonen
>>
>
>
Wayne.B
wrote:
>My new bride, the former Paris Hilton, can't do anything except &^%$#. And,
>she does that with every Captain in the harbor!
>
>But ,,, I still love her.
And you should, every chance you get. An autopilot will help with
that.
Capt. JG
Chuckles.
--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com
"Chi Chi" <pasi...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:zI60h.295$wX....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com...
Scotty
"Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote >
> > Why don't you just go back to sucking
> your lemon over in your usual hangout where most of your
posts are whiny
> complaints about how everybody has anger problems and
needs help.
So, Chuckie, this is your contribution to this thread? You
posted from the break room at Wal Mart just to add this?
Capt. JG
Hey Wal-Mart has great, cheap chargers I heard... :-)
dt
> "Charlie Morgan" <*@*.com> wrote in message
> news:2941k2h0orj8l0mvj...@4ax.com...
>
>>On Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:51:32 -0400, DSK <d...@dontbotherme.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Okay, Doug. Please describe the windvane setup on your own sailboat. Oh,
>>you
>>don't have a windvane OR a sailboat? Well, can you then describe the
>>windvane on
>>a sailboatt you USED to have? Oh, you've never had a sailboat with a
>>windvane?
>>Okay... What's that Doug? You say that your crusing in sailboats consisted
>>of
>>dragging a Hunter 19 on a trailer down the highway? WOW!
>>
>>CWM
>
> =========================
>
> Charlie ,, you are a cruel man ... but I must say I am laughing out loud.
> Old DSK must be smoking after your posting.
>
> Rig for ramming speed.
>
> ======================
>
> I have been making progress in the self steering department ....
>
> It seems that the sheet to tiller self steering is not the best system, but
> if it will work for a short time, that is all I need.
>
> I have read lots and lots of info on the wind vane, very interesting
> reading. While some swear by them, others go on and on about the problems
> of weight, blah blah blah ... I might even get one some time but I am not
> in need of one at this time.
>
> See ya
I trust you found this page: http://snipurl.com/10k80 ?
Several good links about halfway down, also.
DT
Scotty
"Capt. JG" <jg...@sailnow.invalid> wrote in message
news:12k4cha...@corp.supernews.com...
> "Scotty" <Sco...@Seidelmann.com> wrote in message
> news:zuadna_iebgfsd_Y...@dejazzd.com...
> >
> >
You
> > posted from the break room at Wal Mart just to add
this?
>
> Hey Wal-Mart has great, cheap chargers I heard... :-)
I hear they have a whole ''marine dept.'', and Chucky gets
an employee discount.
SBV
Capt. JG
Don't put down Wal-Mart. That's not nice.
NE Sailboat
stuff with his boat.
=======
"dt" <dal...@ATnewsguy.com> wrote in message
news:ehtcb8$38t$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...