Ritchey designs cranks? (was: need advice...)
Eric House
> In article 9...@crl3.crl.com, lap...@crl.com (Gary Helfrich) writes:
> > Richey [] does not make components. I would not
> > even say that he even designs components, however in the loose
> > definition of that word as it is misused in the bike industry, he does.
> > Like Joe Breeze, what he is marketing is an image.
>
> Ritchey doesn't manufacture the steel (I don't believe I said this,
> nor inferred this.. at least not my intention), I believe Tange
> manufactures the steel to his specifications. And some of his
> components are relabeled products (eg. Ritchey cranks are Suginos,
> Ritchey brakes are Diacompes).
Are Ritchey cranks really identical to any Sugino crank available without
the Ritchey moniker? If so, I haven't seen it. And what are we to make
of Jobst's claim to have helped Ritchey with the design, specifically with
having one of the spider arms integral with the crank.
--
****************************************************************************
Eric House "My employer doesn't share its opinions with
Life after BMB? me, so I can share only mine with you"
Jobst Brandt
> Rick Brusuelas wrote:
>
>> Gary Helfrich writes: >>
>>
>>> Ritchey [] does not make components. I would not even say that he
>>> even designs components, however in the loose definition of that word
>>> as it is misused in the bike industry, he does. Like Joe Breeze, what
>>> he is marketing is an image.
>> Ritchey doesn't manufacture the steel (I don't believe I said this,
>> nor inferred this.. at least not my intention), I believe Tange
>> manufactures the steel to his specifications. And some of his
>> components are relabeled products (eg. Ritchey cranks are Suginos,
>> Ritchey brakes are Diacompes).
> Are Ritchey cranks really identical to any Sugino crank available without
> the Ritchey moniker? If so, I haven't seen it. And what are we to make
> of Jobst's claim to have helped Ritchey with the design, specifically with
> having one of the spider arms integral with the crank.
No they are not his name on someone else's design. They are made to
his drawings that he makes himself. Just because he doesn't have a
forge in his shop and does not refine aluminum alloys doesn't mean his
components are not of his making. HP makes computers but they buy
practically everything from suppliers from the chips to the chassis
parts. The specifications and most of the drawings are made in-house.
Where do you guys get these stories anyway? I worked on this stuff
with Tom and the integral spider arm is typical. It gets rid of a
weakness that most other cranks have in that they crack at the spider
arm that trails the crank. He spends substantial time with these
considerations, and where to put on metal and where to save it. He, as
I, has had plenty of experience in component failure and addresses
these points in his designs.
Jobst Brandt <jbr...@hplabs.hp.com>
Steven L. Sheffield
>In article <33vr45$q...@jethro.Corp.Sun.COM>, god...@dogpower.Corp.Sun.COM (Rick Brusuelas) wrote:
>
>> In article 9...@crl3.crl.com, lap...@crl.com (Gary Helfrich) writes:
>> > Richey [] does not make components. I would not
>> > even say that he even designs components, however in the loose
>> > definition of that word as it is misused in the bike industry, he does.
>> > Like Joe Breeze, what he is marketing is an image.
>>
>> Ritchey doesn't manufacture the steel (I don't believe I said this,
>> nor inferred this.. at least not my intention), I believe Tange
>> manufactures the steel to his specifications. And some of his
>> components are relabeled products (eg. Ritchey cranks are Suginos,
>> Ritchey brakes are Diacompes).
>
>Are Ritchey cranks really identical to any Sugino crank available without
>the Ritchey moniker? If so, I haven't seen it. And what are we to make
>of Jobst's claim to have helped Ritchey with the design, specifically with
>having one of the spider arms integral with the crank.
In an interview in the August 1994 issue of Bicycle Retailer, Tom
Ritchey says:
Jobst Brandt is a design engineer. The guy is one of the
best engineers that I've ever run across. He was someone
who cared about me doing the right thing, to the point
where he would regularly berate and chastise me whenever
he saw me going in the wrong direction. [** sounds like
our Jobst **] At the time it was a bittersweet relation-
ship. But, as I look back, it was one of the best things
that ever happened to me. One of the most priveleged
things I've ever had the opportunity to do was to have
Jobst Brandt ask me to build his personal bike. For
years, he'd only trusted Cinelli to build his custom, 70-
centimeter bikes. I started to have to repair them. He'd
break something and I'd repair it. Then he'd break some-
thing else and I'd repair that. It got to the point that
this bike was more Ritchey than it was Cinelli. He
finally said, "OK, you build me a bike." He like it so
much that he owned it for 10 years and rode the heck out
of it. And he never broke anything, because of his
superior design input and influence on me. I've been
complimented on my logos and graphics, especially the "TR"
for Ritchey. I didn't have a decal for the bike I built
for Jobst, so he designed the logos for me. He did the
design work and handed them to me and said, "Here, get
these made into decals. I want one for my bike." To this
day, if it had not been for Jobst, I probably wouldn't
have decals on my bikes."
Based on the above, I'd come to the following conclusions:
1) Jobst Brandt obviously had a lot of influence on Ritchey. If he
says he designed the Logic cranks, I'd tend to believe him.
2) Tom Ritchey is either a) not the most articulate person, or
b) the victim of poor editing by Bicycle Retailer. Did he really
spew the above with the benefit of a pause, which could be indicated
by a paragraph break?
In the same interview, Ritchey claims to have designed a sealed-bearing
headset identical to, and prior to Chris King's. He also claims to
have designed a threadless headset 10 years prior to the one patented
by Dia-Compe, and to be the first to do a tubular chro-moly stem (as
opposed to Salsa Cycles), even claiming that Grant Petersen broke one
of his original stems [** this is something to be PROUD of? **].
--
Steven L. Sheffield Disclaimer? I don't need no
(BOB #1765/IBOB #3) stinking disclaimer.
Internet: biki...@netcom.com __o
Voice: (415) 296-9893 _`\<;
Fax: (415) 597-9849 (*)/(*) Cars suck. Ride yer bike.
Jobst Brandt
> In the same interview, Ritchey claims to have designed a sealed-bearing
> headset identical to, and prior to Chris King's. He also claims to
> have designed a threadless headset 10 years prior to the one patented
> by Dia-Compe, and to be the first to do a tubular chrome-moly stem (as
> opposed to Salsa Cycles), even claiming that Grant Petersen broke one
> of his original stems [** this is something to be PROUD of? **].
The Aheadset type head bearing was used by both Peter Johnson and Tom
Ritchey as he stated. Many of the designs that Ritchey uses were
developed by Peter Johnson who doesn't build bikes as a business because
he runs a precision NC machine shop. He builds prototype projects from
which many elegant designs go on into production on other brands. He
and Ritchey came from the same group of racers who were the top USA
riders in the 70's and early 80's.
Peter Johnson is annoyed that he is not credited with his own
creations, as Joe Breeze should be about his building of the first
100% light weight tubing MTB, long before they became someone else's
product. However, it is the person who makes the product from the
idea who is usually recognized because bringing it to market is a
large part of the endeavor. Ritchey was the one who saw the potential
in the MTB and he brought it to market. Johnson and others, as well
as Ritchey, are the inventors. I ride a Johnson frame today (after
wrecking my Ritchey). Peter and I have toured the Alps many times
over the years and he, as Ritchey, understands what it means to
descend along the edge of eternity on mountain roads, hard on the
brakes over washboard asphalt, as the fork and frame are stressed like
riding down the stairs of the Lincoln Memorial. We have the world's
best frame builders right here in the USA.
I trust their bikes and they know why.
Jobst Brandt <jbr...@hplabs.hp.com>
David J Kroth
> Jobst Brandt ask me to build his personal bike. For
> years, he'd only trusted Cinelli to build his custom, 70-
> centimeter bikes.
Holy shit. A 70cm bike? Jobst must be huge! I wonder if some of
these "discussions" with Jobst would be so argumentative if they
took place face-to-face.
David J Kroth
I meant to say, "Steven L. Sheffield quotes:" not "Steven L.
Sheffield writes:" Sorry about that, Steve.
Hans-Joachim Zierke
biki...@netcom.com (Steven L. Sheffield) wrote:
> and to be the first to do a tubular chro-moly stem (as
> opposed to Salsa Cycles),
He must be rather old then. Stems like this were in use prior to forged
aluminum. I do not know wether it was chro-moly, but the chance is good,
since chro-moly is in use for frames since 1935.
BTW: The first cassette hub was manufactured in 1935, too.
hajo
NoBrake
writes:
>The Aheadset type head bearing was used by both Peter Johnson and Tom
>Ritchey as he stated. Many of the designs that Ritchey uses were
>developed by Peter Johnson who doesn't build bikes as a business because
>he runs a precision NC machine shop. He builds prototype projects from
>which many elegant designs go on into production on other brands. He
>and Ritchey came from the same group of racers who were the top USA
>riders in the 70's and early 80's.
Nice to see Peter finally get some credit! I have worked with peter on
many projects over the last 6 years and it has always been a pleasure. For
those that care, he machined and welded the titanium lugsets for the first
Specialized Ultimates. The bike downstairs at wheelsmith that Ned rode to
the World Championship was one of them. I Know. I built it!
He also helped tremendously in the early stages of development of the M2.
I ran into Peter and Jim Merz at Anaheim. But I think they were really
looking for old motorcycles. :) !
NoBrake alias Chris Vincent
Jobst Brandt
> I ran into Peter and Jim Merz at Anaheim. But I think they were really
> looking for old motorcycles. :) !
They are always looking for old motos but that doesn't mean there isn't
anything else going on.
Jobst Brandt <jbr...@hplabs.hp.com>