Tire description

[roya...@bellsouth.net]

Would anyone explain or describe the semi-pneumatic tire and the foam
filled tire. I'm doing a research paper and would appreciate any help.
Also, why would you use one or not use one. Thank you

[bfd]

Yow, if you're doing a RESEARCH paper, why not learn how to do a proper
google search, its not that difficult. Barring that, go to Sheldon
Brown's excellent website and read his article on tires. Yes, it does
contain info on what you're seeking (see Airless tires):

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

[roya...@bellsouth.net]

I have already done the google searches and did visit the 2 sites
(among others) that you suggested but I was also interested in what the
tire group had to say on this subject as well.

[data...@yahoo.com]

small, 9-10 grams weight reduction on the front wheel gives the
sensation of greater speed potential. this establishes the large market
for expensive and delicate exoctic wheel design, and engineering.
but a kevlar belted tire with slime liner and puntuire resistant tube
as at -
http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCEqSection.jsp?sid=05EquipTubesRoad

fills the bill and eliminates the added weight

[rle...@hotmail.com]

Hiya Royal:
Way back in the 1950's, anti-apartheid activists in South Africa had
arranged a boycott of the stores they were supposed to shop at (think
"company store"). To get the goods and services they needed, they'd
ride bikes over the bridge to the "wrong" side of the river, do their
business, then hustle back before curfew fell. So the local cops took
it upon themselves to confiscate the tire valves. I got this story (and
am sorry I can provide no other details, I looked it up back in the
late 1980's) while tracking down the story behind a cartoon that showed
one black South African wheeling his roadster, telling another walking
beside him "Let them try to confiscate my tire valves -- I've got solid
tires." I THINK I saw the cartoon in an issue of the "World Press
Review."

Robert Leone rle...@hotmail.com

[roya...@bellsouth.net]

That's a great cartoon Robert! Thank you.

[data...@yahoo.com]

yeah. i wuz thinking on this filled tire biz riding home while having a
front flat.
the flat came from wheel wobble ripping the tube longitudanly.
using liners et al. as above with conti tt (aramid), flats are from
tube defects and wear not punctures. maybe one puncture for every 9
tube wear flats.
i am increasing the talc procedures.
this kinda rules out or narrows the filled tire applications.
the wal i travel too sits above a large retirement area filled with
people adverse to the game of mechanical tinkering. no anglia/alfa for
these folk and wal carries a stock of filled tubes in priority of 27"
regulars or sealers.
aha! but the foam filled tube is also adverse-to out of trueness. good
grief!!
the logic of this continues narrowing the recipient field. yawl now
lookin at a group of no ride riders!!! dense.
further inquiry may reveal thses folk own pets that look likeum!!!
groove on this

[41]

data...@yahoo.com wrote:

> the flat came from wheel wobble ripping the tube longitudanly.
> using liners et al. as above with conti tt (aramid), flats are from

> tub e defects and wear not punctures. maybe one puncture for every 9

> tube wear flats.
> i am increasing the talc procedures.

I've never had a tube wear flat or a tube defect. The tube gets bonded
to the inner tire and doesn't move. Maybe you should try cutting out
the talc and using better tubes (not Walmart)?@

[lime...@gmail.com]

I have put several thousand miles on the solid, Urethane tires from
www.airfreetires.com and I might be the only one to admit to it on this
newsgroup. :-)

Cycling has been my passion for over 25 years, in the USA, and I own
several bikes.

After I retired, I decided to go 'car free' and when I have a dentist
appointment, a trip to the grocery store, or some trip where I _REALLY_
don't want to mess with the bike, I ride the machine with the SOLID,
HEAVY, HIGH ROLLING RESISTANCE tires.

I have ridden the in the snow, the pouring rain, off road and on road
and never had _any_ of the trouble that the 'cycling gurus' talk about.
NO broken spokes, NO out of true wheels!!!!!!

OK, so I don't have them on _all_ of my bikes but for the purpose for
which I use them, they are SUPER.

Lewis.

****************

[41]

data...@yahoo.com wrote:

> using liners et al. as above with conti tt (aramid), flats are from

> tub e defects and wear not punctures. maybe one puncture for every 9

> tube wear flats.
> i am increasing the talc procedures.

I forgot, you use some tire liner that wears away your inner tubes. So
why don't you ditch the TTs and go with a tire that has thick rubber
and a built in liner, like the Vittoria Randonneur? Or that has >1cm of
rubber between the road and the tube, the Schwalbe Marathon Plus?

[data...@yahoo.com]

the conti TT fit the bill. amybe if i had 2-3 bikes i try the few other
brands in 27"
tubes wear out. the tire liner overlap brands the tube and there it
splits-the tube. i'm thinking of a maintenance interval of 2-300 miles
for liner moving 60 degrees over. plus careful talcing or cornstarch.
the cornstarch is experimental for self sealing tubes. i plan on
examining that tomorrow.
liners wear out over 5000 miles. the liners used here blow out from
press on regardless commuting. not press on ruining the TT but several
atmospheres lower than that blow out the liners.

mr. limey?
questions are- can you recommend the urethane tire for heavy duty cross
country riding?
predict the wear for the ure tire v a conti tt or the best you've
ridden?
did you change your riding style for the ure tires?
and how does the ure tire handle over a curve surfaced with pavement
ripples-is the ure tire comlpiant? or does the solid tire bounce you up
and down losing adhesion? does this get worse when the road surface is
wet? can anyone offer math to quantify the energy needed to cross the
USA with a conti/slime/sealer v the urethane solid tire?

limey's post is the border between the two tire types and he is adverse
but a rider for sure right! I told this 3 times butbutbut-riding down
the intercoasteal with fed 8' berm at 30 mph on an urgent gotta do it
now errand, i chose a path right over a roofing nail complete with
apron and shaft rings. thwackthwackthwack pawsing to examine this
before i went 75' into the river or under the lemans traffic headed
into the only sweeping left hander on the coast-ifound the nail thru
the tire, the tube a nashbar thinwall self sealer, and stuck into the
rim!!!
i pulled the nail out and went on. a week later had time to repair with
150 miles inbetween.

the aramid/kevlar belt-slime liner-self sealer tube/thorn proof tube/or
a thron selaer combo (as at specialized) gets the rider up to that
level.

the armid et al. setup has its own line-the setup protects from debris
the rider cannot see. anything you can see is flat potential.

[data...@yahoo.com]

try phred.org- new england cycle news group
and get back to us with your report off course.
ur gonna buy two right?

[lime...@gmail.com]

Sir, you have _GOT_ to be kidding, right?

How a tire handles seems to be a very subjective topic and I would not
expect you, or anyone else, to have the same opinion that I do.

I will point out that it is _VERY_ important that you get the correct
size tire for your rim. Did I say the CORRECT SIZE TIRE FOR YOUR
RIM????? :-)

As long as you get the correct size tire for your rim, they will work
very well but YOU are the one that needs to try them out and see if you
like them.

They really work well for me, on the bike that I have them on and for
the purpose for which I use them.

Kind regards.

Lewis.

**************

[41]

datak...@yahoo.com wrote:
> the conti TT fit the bill. amybe if i had 2-3 bikes i try the few other
> brands in 27"
> tubes wear out. the tire liner overlap brands the tube and there it
> splits-the tube. i'm thinking of a maintenance interval of 2-300 m iles
> for liner moving 60 degrees over. plus careful talcing or cornstarch.
> the cornstarch is experimental for self sealing tubes.

OK, if you have 27", your options are limited. Are there any tires in
that size more punctur resistant than TT? Possibly Armadillos.
Certainly for cost effectiveness, Michelin World Tour would be better.
While they must be very puncture resistant, I would expect this level
to be slightly less than TTs. If you could change to 700c, you could
likely solve all your problems with the Schwalbe Marathon Plus.

If you were using lightweight tires, adding your liners would surely
improve the puncture resistance. However, for an already heavy and
thick tire like the TT, I don't see that the liner adds any significant
extra protection. In fact they seem to cause you more flats than they
prevent, in a TT setup. Have you reached the point of diminished
returns?

> mr. limey?
> questions are- can you recommend the urethane tire for heavy duty cross
> country riding?
> predict the wear for the ure tire v a conti tt or the best you've
> ridden?
> did you change your riding style for the ure tires?
> and how does the ure tire handle over a curve surfaced with pavement
> ripples-is the ure tire comlpiant? or does the solid tire bounce you up
> and down losing adhesion? does this get worse when the road surface is
> wet? can anyone offer math to quantify the energy needed to cross the
> USA with a conti/slime/sealer v the urethane solid tire?

It's not possible to quantify that difference. Sure, you can find
published rolling resistance figures for both TT and some foam tires,
from which you might think it possible to quantify the difference in
kilowatt-hours:
http://tinyurl.com/85vkm
(buried and almost impossible to find on their website; I wonder why?)
But rolling resistance in the strict sense of the term, as measured on
a polished steel drum, or even smooth tarmac, is not the problem: as
the table shows, it is possible to make a foam tire with lower rolling
resistance than a TT, certainly than a TT with slime and liner. The
problem is that foam tires, especially those with reasonable rolling
resistance, have nearly no compliance, and can't absorb any
irregularity or bump. Washboard of any kind, cracks, etc, would suck
all the energy out, being equivalent to a series of hills or curbs. So,
if you were riding on smooth tarmac, the pedalling effort would be
fine, but you would start to lose as soon as the irregularities came.
Also, you wouldn't want to do "heavy duty cross country riding" on such
tires unless your bicycle was fully suspended, for the same reason:
they can't absorb any irregularity. True, that guy 100 years ago
travelled round the world on a penny farthing with what I'm sure were
solid rubber tires, on mostly unpaved trails, but that's extreme.

The foam tire is said to be the ideal product for tricyles (rear
wheels, reasonable terrain), trainers, and for the type of riding
described by Mr Limey. For what you describe, if not just sticking with
a plain TT, it would be better to go to 700c and the Marathon Plus, or
even the Vittoria Randonneur. Or something lighter, like the Avocet
Duro Plus which I use. Cross country, you won't always have the
terrible conditions that seem to bedevil your local area.~

[data...@yahoo.com]

>
> The foam tire is said to be the ideal product for tricyles (rear
> wheels, reasonable terrain), trainers, and for the type of riding
> described by Mr Limey.

RIGHT!! this is the direction Royal was heading into (see "shaft drive
math" in tech archives) and applied by Mr. Limey-
that a commuter cycle or 'device' should be bullet proof-and then the
urethane filled blow out proof tire (as long as the rim is bullet proof
if knot the owner)becomes relevant '58/021 research.
going on about howe shaft drive was dead in 1898 and filled tires are
get rich quick schemes is an relevant consumer opinion but not a
priority for furthering the commuter cycle idea-someone's research will
produce the compliant filled tire and we'll all walk down (slowly from
the looks of it) over to the terminal to get two or three.

interesting tire recommends. i'm curious on the schwalbe given the
German attitude, wondering where the nearest is-Palm Beach? tech
touring is uncommon.
the liner question is curable without going backwards into an increased
penetration potential using a maintenance rotation interval.
Conti has my $$ due to the history and R/D potential of a large
organization. and off course the design as viewed in the Conti catalog
displays the TT's layup as an honest claim to THE tire for crossing
Yemen and I cross Yemen every day with TT's reliability.
Now for the Specialized thorn proof self sealers!! whew talk of DR!!
then a compliant filled tire and hydrophilic off course but
silica-phobic!!

YO DUPONT WHERE THE HELL IS THAT SYNTHETIC GOOSEDOWN?

[data...@yahoo.com]

off course the ultimate filled tire or possibly synth goose down but
the down has commercial apps for siberia oil)wil never surface-
SUV'S !! less oil, lower living standards, less income, no return on r/d

[41]

data...@yahoo.com wrote:

> that a commuter cycle or 'device' should be bullet proof-and then the
> urethane filled blow out proof tire (as long as the rim is bullet proof
> if knot the owner)becomes relevant

Yet, even a car tire does not meet this standard. The nail that nailed
you would have flatted a car tire too.

> priority for furthering the commuter cycle idea-someone's research will

> produce the compliant fi lled tire and we'll all walk down (slowly from

> the looks of it) over to the terminal to get two or three.

Very slowly, I think- the design parameters (rolling resistance and the
right degree of compliance) are almost contradictory. Not quite but
close. Hard to do without a pressurized, fluid filled vessel. Maybe a
more realistic programme is an anti-litter campaign and better street
cleaning? It will come sooner than the acceptable rolling resistance,
acceptable compliance tire, at least for long distance riding- short
rides, one can manage almost anything. You may be at the borderline for
a 10 mile round trip commute, especially if the road surfaces
themselves are smooth.

For solid or quasi-solid tires, better to separate out the compliance
function with suspension all around- but then you have all the issues
associated with that.

> interesting tire recommends. i'm curious on the schwalbe given the
> German attitude, wondering where the nearest is-Palm Beach? tech
> tourin g is uncommon.

For all practical purposes, for serious longer distance riding with
mega-puncture protection, I think the Schwalbe Marathon Plus has made
the foam tire nearly obsolete- 1cm of material between road and tube:
http://tinyurl.com/byekx
You can order direct from their website.
The regular Schwalbe Marathon is more conventional, but may be more
puncture resistant and cost less than the TT:
http://tinyurl.com/4njok

> For what you describe, if not just sticking with

> > a plain TT, it would be better to go to 700c and the Marathon Pl us, or

> > even the Vittoria Randonneur. Or something lighter, like the Avocet
> > Duro Plus which I use. Cross country, you won't always have the

> > terrible conditions that seem to bedevil your local area.~~