fatigued campy shifter mechanism
jim beam
mechanisms are fully serviceable or is it better that shimano be
designed without inherent flaws [easily removed stress risers] in the
first place?
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfoge/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg
this is my broken campy "g-spring" holder ring. the fatigue initiation
point is clearly seen originating from the unradiused notch at the root
of the spring post.
this is not to say that i'm unsatisfied with the function of campy when
it's working, quite the opposite, but the only shimano shifters i've
ever had problems with are ones where the lube has become gummed up.
that's regrettable, but not a design flaw per se. campy clearly have an
/easily remedied/ design issue here.
thanks to peter for diagnosis & supplying a replacement so promptly.
thanks to carl for hosting the pic.
Jim Smith
> well folks, here's the debate: is it better that campy shifter
> mechanisms are fully serviceable or is it better that shimano be
> designed without inherent flaws [easily removed stress risers] in the
> first place?
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~carlfoge/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg
>
> this is my broken campy "g-spring" holder ring. the fatigue initiation
> point is clearly seen originating from the unradiused notch at the root
> of the spring post.
typo in link. Correct is:
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/fatigued_campy_shift_mech.jpeg
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Jim,
I have a hideous suspicion that the typo was my cut and
paste error in an email.
Carl Foge
Jim Flom
news:1114310613.5b108046195ea82fcce1dad468700624@teranews...
> well folks, here's the debate: is it better that campy shifter
> mechanisms are fully serviceable or is it better that shimano be
> designed without inherent flaws [easily removed stress risers] in the
> first place?
... and have to buy a whole new shifter? G-springs are easier than earth
girls.
richard
re-designed in 2000 (including the ring, to remove stress risers), and
they fit older shifters. Oh yeah, the ring costs about $5.
Meanwhile, lots of stories about STI's failing within the warranty
period, especially the last couple of years. SO, either they have
inherent flaws undefined (since they are so rarely re-built), or they
have serious QC issues.
Take your choice...
Pete Biggs
> Out of curiosity, in what year was your shifter made? Some parts were
> re-designed in 2000 (including the ring, to remove stress risers), and
> they fit older shifters. Oh yeah, the ring costs about $5.
Jim's looks like the re-designed one to me.
~PB
jim beam
your coordinates.
jim beam
Jim Flom
Changed an earth girl? Not since I got married, but I am pleased to say I
have experience with both mechanisms. And I wouldn'tr even say I am
particularly detail- or mechanically oriented. All it takes is patience and
paying attention to the dissassembly.
RonSonic
>"jim beam" <nos...@example.net> wrote in message
>news:1114364946.2a6809fa03317d3012613565f71ae4e7@teranews...
>> Jim Flom wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <nos...@example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:1114310613.5b108046195ea82fcce1dad468700624@teranews...
>>>
>>>>well folks, here's the debate: is it better that campy shifter
>>>>mechanisms are fully serviceable or is it better that shimano be
>>>>designed without inherent flaws [easily removed stress risers] in the
>>>>first place?
>>>
>>>
>>> ... and have to buy a whole new shifter? G-springs are easier than earth
>>> girls.
>> have you changed one? must be something wrong with the earth girls at
>> your coordinates.
>
>Changed an earth girl? Not since I got married, but I am pleased to say I
>have experience with both mechanisms. And I wouldn'tr even say I am
>particularly detail- or mechanically oriented. All it takes is patience and
>paying attention to the dissassembly.
>
Earth girls?
Ron
Lou D'Amelio
In terms of value, overall I think it's a wash. With Campy, rebuild
right lever every 7000 or so miles at a cost of $25 - $35 if you have
LBS do the work. With Shimano, throw it out at 20 - 25,000 miles (begin
the WD - 40 flushes at 15,000 miles or so). This has been my experience
based on 1998 Ultegra and 2000 Chorus groupsets. Overall, I prefer the
function and aesthetics of Campy much more. If you have the
patience/time to do your own rebuilds, the Campy starts to look even
better.
YMMV..........Lou D'Amelio
Qui si parla Campagnolo
interbike Each year we suggest this teeny part be made of steel, not
carbon or aluminum. Each year we get the 1000 yard stare.
Many things go south in STI, this is the only one that frequently
breaks in ERGO and is replaceable. Not ideal but not 'Bic lighter-like'
ala shimano
Steve Shapiro
jim beam Wrote:
> well folks, here's the debate: is it better that campy shifter
> mechanisms are fully serviceable or is it better that shimano be
> designed without inherent flaws [easily removed stress risers] in the
> first place?
>
>
> this is my broken campy "g-spring" holder ring. the fatigue
> initiation
> point is clearly seen originating from the unradiused notch at the
> root
> of the spring post.
>
> this is not to say that i'm unsatisfied with the function of campy
> when
> it's working, quite the opposite, but the only shimano shifters i've
> ever had problems with are ones where the lube has become gummed up.
> that's regrettable, but not a design flaw per se. campy clearly have
> an
> /easily remedied/ design issue here.
>
> thanks to peter for diagnosis & supplying a replacement so promptly.
> thanks to carl for hosting the pic.
I would be most interested to hear about what you noticed when the
failure occurred. Did it continue to work, albeit poorly? Did it jam,
or drop you onto your smallest sprocket? Did you have any warning of
impending failure before the event?
I've been using Ergo for a while and I like them too...for lots of
reasons. I don't mind servicing them, I just hate to lose the riding
time waiting for parts. For an overhaul, on a snowy winter evening,
it's enjoyable work, but if the sun is shining, I do not want to be
fiddeling with shifters. Life is short and I'm mighty tempted to buy a
set of Ergo shifters the next time I see 'em on sale just to have
spares...especially if your failure was without warning.
I've not had any problem with the Ergo shifters or the Shimano rapid
fire shifters on my straight-bar bike. Both seem like good values.
Steve Shapiro
--
Steve Shapiro
Paul Kopit
<pe...@vecchios.com> wrote:
It is such a common failure that I recommend that anyone doing a
spring replacement have a spring carrier available.
Mike Latondresse
news:1114422544.9...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> In terms of value, overall I think it's a wash. With Campy,
> rebuild right lever every 7000 or so miles at a cost of $25 - $35
> if you have LBS do the work.
Campy is very popular here as both the top LBS are Campy shops so I
have a reasonable sample size in fellow riders. I would say that the
average failure is in the 30,000k range, and by failure I mean that the
clicks are less precise, it never actually quits.
Jay Beattie
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote in message
news:1114434358.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Each year we show Campag USA our little bag of broken
EC-RE-111s at
> interbike Each year we suggest this teeny part be made of
steel, not
> carbon or aluminum. Each year we get the 1000 yard stare.
What is the retail price for this part? -- Jay Beattie.
jim beam
sudden onset, but continued to work, kinda. grossly imprecise with lots
of ghost shifting.
jim beam
design flaw. it occurs because of the notchy shoulders at the root of
the post. the shoulders are there for the washer cut-outs to keep the
washer centered - much more effectively achieved with a redesigned
washer. that allows the post to have proper radiused shoulders. the
radius necessary to mitigate fatigue is a function of the notch
sensitivity of the alloy - something campy's supplier should be able to
tell them. it's an easy fix and one that can be retroactively applied
with just a modified carrier & washer. no major redesign necessary.
regarding alloy vs. steel, this part is a relatively complex shape - one
that would be significantly expensive to machine. the alloy version is
die cast - not a process noted for producing superior fatigue
properties. steels do not die cast well, or not cheaply, and you still
have multiple heat treatments necessary to improve fatigue properties
making the expense likely to be comparable with machining. giving the
post a properly radiused root will solve the problem - can then carry on
die casting cheaply.
the 1000 yard stare is because this failure is great at maintaining
lever sales. how many bike shops bother to repair rather than just sell
a new lever set? those represented on this forum do, but go to some of
the shops here in the bay area...
finally, a question for peter: how do the carbon carriers last compared
to the alloy versions? carbon usually has superior fatigue properties.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Qui si parla Campagnolo
of
the post. the shoulders are there for the washer cut-outs to keep the
washer centered - much more effectively achieved with a redesigned
washer. that allows the post to have proper radiused shoulders.
We take that washer)EC-RE-057) and make the notch flat instead of
'square' on the grinder. We also grind away a portion of the back
cap(Ec-RE-124) right above the post on EC-RE-111. I suspect that some
handlebars are shaped such that when installing the ERGO lever,
tightening it breaks the post.
After doing these two things, we see fewer broken or split EC-RE-111,
BUT the part should still be steel.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Like gluing on tubulars, I think the customer ought to learn to do ERGO
OVH. I will show anybody how to do it, just like I show people how to
glue on their tubies.