Hincapie's broken fork in Paris-Roubaix
Derk
forks.
Gr, Derk
Derk
aluminium steerer?
For those who didn't see what happened: the fork broke off just above the
headset. That was a nasty fall he made!
Gr, Derk
Lou Holtman
Damn'd I missed that. My ride today took to long. It already happened
when I turned on the TV for the live coverage.
Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
Tim McNamara
Derk <nob...@invalid.org> wrote:
> My guess is that this event will be often cited in discussions about
> carbon forks.
Well, at least not until we know more. The scanty information isn't
enough, basically per cyclingnews.com Belgian TV reported that the
aluminum steerer broke.
There are other reports of catastrophic failure of carbon forks to talk
about already. ;-)
Tim McNamara
Derk <nob...@invalid.org> wrote:
Per cyclingnews.com's report of the bike yesterday
George was riding a prototype designed to use "long" reach brakes and 26
mm tubulars, and a fork form the Satellite line:
Scott Daubert: One thing I forgot to tell you about is that George is
running with a different fork; it has a longer axle to crown dimension,
and it has a longer rake than the normal Bontrager Race Lite fork.
CN: Is this something new you'll bring into the Trek line?
SD: No, it's actually from Bontrager's Satellite line, almost from their
commuter level, but it has dimensions that are appropriate for Roubaix.
It's an in-house made fork, made at Trek from OCLV carbon, it's just on
a different model bike.
CN: Is it a steel steerer?
SD: No, it's aluminium; it's been blasted then anodized black.
Derk
> Scott Daubert: One thing I forgot to tell you about is that George is
> running with a different fork; it has a longer axle to crown dimension,
> and it has a longer rake than the normal Bontrager Race Lite fork.
You could clearly see Hincapie holding a loose stem with the attached bar in
his hands. Then he just made a nasty fall.
I would be surprised if we wouldn't find this clip anywhere on the net....
Gr, Derk
Ronald
> his hands. Then he just made a nasty fall.
Also in close up of the crashed bike it was clearly visible that nothing
was sticking out above the headset.
"Derk" <nob...@invalid.org> wrote in message news:44394027$0$11061$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
Brian Phillips
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/apr06/roubaix06/?id=/tech/2006/features/hincapie_trek
it's an aluminum steerer. Add an extra syllable if you're British.
Boonen's bike on the other hand, has a steel steerer:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/index.php?id=boonen_time/IMG_9914
"Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
news:timmcn-2A3CFB....@news.iphouse.com...
Derk
Gr, Derk
Tim McNamara
Derk <nob...@invalid.org> wrote:
The photo of Hincapie sitting on the side of the road looks like either
the stem broke or the steerer broke off at the top, by the upper headset
race. I would have expected the break to be at the fork crown race,
which would have been much more dangerous for Hincapie so alll things
considered this failure was not as bad as might have been.
Tim McNamara
Derk <nob...@invalid.org> wrote:
> Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> > Scott Daubert: One thing I forgot to tell you about is that George
> > is running with a different fork; it has a longer axle to crown
> > dimension, and it has a longer rake than the normal Bontrager Race
> > Lite fork.
>
> I think Scott won't be as enthousiastic today as he sounded
> yesterday.
Agreed.
> You could clearly see Hincapie holding a loose stem with the attached
> bar in his hands. Then he just made a nasty fall.
Which sounds like the top of the steerer broke off or the stem itself
broke.
> I would be surprised if we wouldn't find this clip anywhere on the
> net....
Eventually. Many times these events are posted to one of the binary
Usenet groups in sections.
Tim McNamara
wrote:
> > You could clearly see Hincapie holding a loose stem with the
> > attached bar in his hands. Then he just made a nasty fall.
>
> Also in close up of the crashed bike it was clearly visible that
> nothing was sticking out above the headset.
That narrows it down to the aluminum steerer breaking.
philcycles
quoted text:
The photo of Hincapie sitting on the side of the road looks like either
the stem broke or the steerer broke off at the top, by the upper
headset
race. I would have expected the break to be at the fork crown race,
which would have been much more dangerous for Hincapie so alll things
considered this failure was not as bad as might have been.
If tightening the stem caused a small notch in the aluminium steerer
that would explain the failure.
Phil Brown
Sheldon Brown
> My guess is that this event will be often cited in discussions about carbon
> forks.
Thanks _so_ much for posting that header before the U.S. broadcast.
It certainly enhanced my enjoyment of the broadcast to know in advance
that Hincapie would not be winning the event...
Sheldon "Yeah, Right..." Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| Warning: Objects in mirror appear smarter than they are. |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
spin156
Yeh, "until we know more" ....... like the fact that George had
crashed earlier in the race - and do you think that might have
contributed to the eventual failure of the steerer?
Maybe Fox Sports or ESPN could provide more accurate reporting.
Also, I would like to add my thanks to all of those who posted the
results of the race before the US broadcast. I guess I'll know
better next year.
-- Bill
Richard Brockie
> Derk wrote:
>> My guess is that this event will be often cited in discussions about
>> carbon
>> forks.
>
> Thanks _so_ much for posting that header before the U.S. broadcast.
>
> It certainly enhanced my enjoyment of the broadcast to know in advance
> that Hincapie would not be winning the event...
>
> Sheldon "Yeah, Right..." Brown
Sheldon - some of us in the US steered well clear of anything cycling on
the 'net before watching today's delayed coverage.
The folks in Europe shouldn't feel the need to embargo what they write
in case another country doesn't show an event live!
--
R.
<> Richard Brockie "Categorical statements
<> The tall blond one. always cause trouble."
<> rmbu...@brockie.org.uk
sal bass
Sheldon Brown
>> Thanks _so_ much for posting that header before the U.S. broadcast.
>>
>> It certainly enhanced my enjoyment of the broadcast to know in advance
>> that Hincapie would not be winning the event...
>
Richard Brockie wrote:
>
> Sheldon - some of us in the US steered well clear of anything cycling on
> the 'net before watching today's delayed coverage.
>
> The folks in Europe shouldn't feel the need to embargo what they write
> in case another country doesn't show an event live!
No problem with the posting. The problem was the "Subject:" heading.
If it had said something generic about the Paris-Roubaix, or perhaps had
the conventional "Spoiler alert" notification it wouldn't have been an
issue.
Indeed, I didn't read the actual _posting_ until after seeing the broadcast.
Sheldon "Common Courtesy" Brown
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid |
| excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide |
| lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, |
| the untravelled, the naive, the sophisticated deplore these |
| formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and |
| scorn to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, |
| they thereby throw sand into machinery that does not work |
| too well at best. --Robert A. Heinlein |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
Michael Press
Sheldon Brown <capt...@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:
The quotation in your signature suggests adapting ones
actions to the world as it is.
1. Race results will be posted in subject headers.
2. Someone will complain about 1.
3. No amount of remonstrance will change 1.
--
Michael Press
Ozark Bicycle
sal bass wrote:
> well....that certainly enhanced MY enjoyment of this fine day.....
>
>
>
> Sheldon "The world revolves around Me" Brown wrote:
Or is it Sheldon "Without me the world would be alone" Brown?
>
> > Derk wrote:
> > > My guess is that this event will be often cited in discussions about carbon
> > > forks.
> >
> > Thanks _so_ much for posting that header before the U.S. broadcast.
> >
> > It certainly enhanced my enjoyment of the broadcast to know in advance
> > that Hincapie would not be winning the event...
> >
> > Sheldon "Egocentric" Brown
> > +--------------------------------------------------------------+
> > | Warning: Objects my mirror aren't reflected accurately.
> > +--------------------------------------------------------------+
john
of his front wheel, locking up the front wheel. Either that or some how
the front brake was activated. The front wheel was hopping as if it
were restrained, to further add to the calamity. Has anyone heard how
he is doing? I'm not wildly pro helmet, but I don't see how anyone
could argue that he would have been better off, had he not been wearing
one.
John
Andrew Lee
Tim McNamara wrote:
> Per cyclingnews.com's report of the bike yesterday
>
> http://tinyurl.com/e7gy6
>
> George was riding a prototype designed to use "long" reach brakes and 26
> mm tubulars, and a fork form the Satellite line:
>
> Scott Daubert: One thing I forgot to tell you about is that George is
> running with a different fork; it has a longer axle to crown dimension,
> and it has a longer rake than the normal Bontrager Race Lite fork.
>
> CN: Is this something new you'll bring into the Trek line?
>
> SD: No, it's actually from Bontrager's Satellite line, almost from their
> commuter level, but it has dimensions that are appropriate for Roubaix.
> It's an in-house made fork, made at Trek from OCLV carbon, it's just on
> a different model bike.
>
> CN: Is it a steel steerer?
>
> SD: No, it's aluminium; it's been blasted then anodized black.
It sounds like they are saying that they anodized Hincapie's fork steerer,
and the normal Bontrager Satellite fork is not anodized black. Anyone know
if that is the case (Mike J.)? If so, I wonder why they did that.
Derk
> Thanks _so_ much for posting that header before the U.S. broadcast.
You don't get that live on TV then???
> It certainly enhanced my enjoyment of the broadcast to know in advance
> that Hincapie would not be winning the event...
Well, he once fell in a ditch, no his steerer broke. Let's face it: he has
bad karma for Paris-Roubaix.
Gr, Derk
Michael Press
<1144639322.5...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"john" <jdr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Looking for an argument?
--
Michael Press
Mike Jacoubowsky
> and the normal Bontrager Satellite fork is not anodized black. Anyone
> know if that is the case (Mike J.)? If so, I wonder why they did that.
That's true, and as yet I have no idea what it means or why they would do
that. The color of anodizing is irrelevant, as far as I know, although some
types of anodizing are limited in terms of how the appearance can be varied;
thus, the fact that it's "black" anodizing may tell us something useful, but
what that something is, I don't know. Yet.
But I do suspect that, for whatever reason, someone decided to use a
non-stock fork column on George's fork. I sure hope it wasn't in an effort
to save weight...
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Andrew Lee" <whatsupandrewathotmaildotcom> wrote in message
news:123jlmh...@corp.supernews.com...
Helmut Springer
> That's true, and as yet I have no idea what it means or why they
> would do that.
To make it look like carbon? Yes, somewhat lost marketing as the
steerer isn't visible, but then what does marketing realize...
The Bontrager website shows Satellite forks with shiny steerers
(then it doesn't even mention the material). From the visibility
this incident got and the concerns it might raise I'd expect some
statement from Bontrager on the point...
--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer
Tim McTeague
> My guess is that this event will be often cited in discussions about
> carbon
> forks.
>
As others have posted the steerer was aluminum, not carbon. Looking at the
photo of Hincapie's bike @ VeloNews
http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/9720.0.html it appears that the
stem just came off. Look below the lower headset cup and you can see the
amount of steerer showing that would normally have the stem attached. My
guess is the stem bolts either came loose or broke and the stem then popped
off and the fork slipped down after the crash.
Tim McTeague
John Forrest Tomlinson
> I'm not wildly pro helmet, but I don't see how anyone
>could argue that he would have been better off, had he not been wearing
>one.
Nice straw man on the helmet thing.
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
Helmut Springer
> As others have posted the steerer was aluminum, not carbon.
> Looking at the photo of Hincapie's bike @ VeloNews
> http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/9720.0.html it appears
> that the stem just came off.
The bar/stem still has the adjustment cap attached, which is fixed
to the steerer but not to the stem. There's also steerer tube
visible in the cut out sections of the stem (btw: this might be the
reason they made it black).
Antti Salonen
> To make it look like carbon? Yes, somewhat lost marketing as the
> steerer isn't visible, but then what does marketing realize...
With many stems now it is. It definitely was on Hincapie's bike:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/apr06/roubaix06/?id=/tech/2006/features/hincapie_trek
Also there's absolutely no question that the steerer broke below the
stem. It was well visible on TV and for example here:
http://www.velonews.com/images/int/9720.14346.f.jpg
-as
spin156
Antti Salonen wrote:
> Helmut Springer <delta+...@lug-s.org> wrote:
>
> Also there's absolutely no question that the steerer broke below the
> stem. It was well visible on TV and for example here:
>
> http://www.velonews.com/images/int/9720.14346.f.jpg
>
> -as
What I see in that picture is a gap of 3-4cm between the crown race and
the bottom of the head tube. So, if you push the fork back up into
the head tube maybe that 3-4cm will pop back out of the top and you can
just bolt a new stem on it.
I think there IS a question - based on the picture posted here - that
the steerer tube broke. I still don't see much discussion about the
fact that he crashed earlier in the race and the possible effect that
crash had on the eventual failure.
How 'bout this for speculation? In the first crash, the bike
landed hard on the end of the handlebar and cracked something in the
top cap or the stem - but this was not seen.
Then, under the constant pounding of the pave the top cap and/or the
stem just popped off and Georgie ended up with a set of unattached
handlebars in his hand.
Antti Salonen
> What I see in that picture is a gap of 3-4cm between the crown race and
> the bottom of the head tube. So, if you push the fork back up into
> the head tube maybe that 3-4cm will pop back out of the top and you can
> just bolt a new stem on it.
I doubt it because as you can see, the top cap is still in its place on
top of the stem. Without a piece of steerer tube inside the stem, it
wouldn't be there after the somersault Hincapie made.
-as
Victor Kan
The footage shown on OLN clearly shows one of the Discovery mechanics
holding the bike with the fork pushed all the way up into the head tube
with nothing showing above the head tube and with him putting the stem
right atop of the headset as if to see if he could hang it there rather
than holding it with both hands, but to no avail as nothing was sticking
out above the headset.
--
I do not accept unsolicited commercial e-mail. Remove NO_UCE for
legitimate replies.
spin156
I watched the OLN broadcast and did not see the footage that Victor
talks about, but, that aside, what if the star nut (or expansion plug)
failed as a result of the first crash? In that case, what you would
get is exactly what you see - the stem and top cap in one piece and
the head tube and steerer (and the rest of the bike) in the other.
When I see a clear picture of the stem/top cap assy with a piece of the
steer tube inside it, then I'll buy the "broken steerer tube" theory.
It's all just speculation at this point. I'm just trying to
figure out what makes sense, given the evidence (thanks, Antti!).
Going back to the picture that you posted, Antti, if you push that
3-4cm back into the head tube and that amount pushes through (contrary
to Victor's claim - sorry, Victor), then that's pretty much what you
need to mount the stem on - right?
Sorry, guys, but that's my theory and I'm stickin' with it.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
29 posts and finally one asking if he broke his collarbone. I wonder
that too. Something breaks at P-R and keeps somebody from finsihing,
that has been happening for over a century....not news.
If they ever published what actually broke on all the teams I think it
would be amazing. I'm amazed bikes make it at all.
Doug Taylor
wrote:
>> http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/9720.0.html it appears
>> that the stem just came off.
>
>The bar/stem still has the adjustment cap attached, which is fixed
>to the steerer but not to the stem. There's also steerer tube
>visible in the cut out sections of the stem (btw: this might be the
>reason they made it black).
" 'George crashed earlier in the race and he was already complaining
about a pain in his hand. We don't know yet what happened to the
handlebars, but it was bad luck for George,' said Discovery Channel
sport director Johan Bruyneel. "
Paul Sherwin interviewed Bruyneel post race on OLN, and Bruyneel
suggested that the steerer must have been damaged in the earlier crash
and then couldn't take the cobbles.
Helmut Springer
> I watched the OLN broadcast and did not see the footage that
> Victor talks about, but, that aside, what if the star nut (or
> expansion plug) failed as a result of the first crash?
You probably want to look up how a threadless headset works. The
top cap carries no load once the stem clamps to the steerer holding
the assembly together, you could remove it.
> In that case, what you would get is exactly what you see - the
> stem and top cap in one piece and the head tube and steerer (and
> the rest of the bike) in the other.
The top cap is linked to the steerer, not the stem. If the stem
would become lose and is pulled upwards it would strip the top cap
off the steerer sending somewhere into the landscap in the crash.
> When I see a clear picture of the stem/top cap assy with a piece
> of the steer tube inside it,
You have that in the pictures referenced, as the stem features cut
out sections on the side through which the remaining steerer is
visible.
dusto...@mac.com
Derk wrote:
> My guess is that this event will be often cited in discussions about carbon
> forks.
Paris Roubaix, broken forks.
I bet most of the forks broken in P-R have been steel. --D-y
spin156
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> john wrote:
> > I believe that I saw the right end of his drops penetrate the rt. side
> > of his front wheel, locking up the front wheel. Either that or some how
> > the front brake was activated. The front wheel was hopping as if it
> > were restrained, to further add to the calamity. Has anyone heard how
> > he is doing? I'm not wildly pro helmet, but I don't see how anyone
> > could argue that he would have been better off, had he not been wearing
> > one.
> >
> > John
>
> 29 posts and finally one asking if he broke his collarbone. I wonder
> that too. Something breaks at P-R and keeps somebody from finsihing,
> that has been happening for over a century....not news.
>From today's CyclingNews.com:
" Hincapie diagnosed with fracture
George Hincapie, the man who probably suffered the worst fate of all in
this 104th Paris-Roubaix - his steerer tube breaking when he had all
the chances for a victory in the race - has been diagnosed with a
fracture between his collarbone and shoulder blade. The Discovery rider
will return to the United States on Monday to get an operation.
"We don't know yet how long Hincapie will be out of competition," team
director Dirk Demol told Belgian media. "It is a severe injury, that's
for sure." X-rays in hospital reveled a fracture of about three
centimetres. "
>
> If they ever published what actually broke on all the teams I think it
> would be amazing. I'm amazed bikes make it at all.
Yes, I agree. How about there was an expansion plug that was not
adequately tight?
If the stem bolts are tight, who's going to notice? Unless they
actually check the allen bolt in the plug. Then, if the stem got
damaged in the first crash and loosened what would happen? Hey, the
whole bar/stem assy comes off in your hands. I am going to be very
surprised if they don't tie the ultimate failure to the first crash.
spin156
Helmut Springer wrote:
> spin156 <spi...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > I watched the OLN broadcast and did not see the footage that
> > Victor talks about, but, that aside, what if the star nut (or
> > expansion plug) failed as a result of the first crash?
>
> You probably want to look up how a threadless headset works. The
> top cap carries no load once the stem clamps to the steerer holding
> the assembly together, you could remove it.
>
"why even bother with the top cap?"
>
> > In that case, what you would get is exactly what you see - the
> > stem and top cap in one piece and the head tube and steerer (and
> > the rest of the bike) in the other.
>
> The top cap is linked to the steerer, not the stem. If the stem
> would become lose and is pulled upwards it would strip the top cap
> off the steerer sending somewhere into the landscap in the crash.
>
the top
of the steerer tube.
>
> > When I see a clear picture of the stem/top cap assy with a piece
> > of the steer tube inside it,
>
> You have that in the pictures referenced, as the stem features cut
> out sections on the side through which the remaining steerer is
> visible.
>
little more specific?
I am seeing what appears to be an intact stem, top cap, head tube,
headset, and
steerer. How can you be so certain that what you are seeing is not,
in fact, the
expansion plug?
>
> --
> MfG/Best regards
> helmut springer
You could be right, but we are clearly seeing two different things from
the same picture.
Cheers,
Bill
P.S. I concur that it's only common courtesy to label events that
are happenning around the globe with a "Spoiler's enclose", or some
such, in the message title. This business of "you Yanks, you
Aussies, you (insert favorite disliked nationality here)" is just
childish. Just a modicum of respect for each other is not to much
to ask, IMHO.
spin156
Hi Tim,
In going back over these posts, it appears that I came to (essentially)
the same conclusion that you did. It was not my intention to hijack
your thoughts. Sorry, if it came across that way. I do agree
with your conclusion ;-)
Cheers,
Bill
Tim McNamara
"Andrew Lee" <whatsupandrewathotmaildotcom> wrote:
Yup. The steerer was bead blasted and anodized black per the report in
cyclingnews.com's review of Hincapie's bike. You can't anodize carbon
fiber, so I figured that was pretty clear I wasn't talking about the
fork. The fork would have been just repainted to match the bike.
Tim McNamara
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > It sounds like they are saying that they anodized Hincapie's fork
> > steerer, and the normal Bontrager Satellite fork is not anodized
> > black. Anyone know if that is the case (Mike J.)? If so, I wonder
> > why they did that.
>
> That's true, and as yet I have no idea what it means or why they
> would do that. The color of anodizing is irrelevant, as far as I
> know, although some types of anodizing are limited in terms of how
> the appearance can be varied; thus, the fact that it's "black"
> anodizing may tell us something useful, but what that something is, I
> don't know. Yet.
>
> But I do suspect that, for whatever reason, someone decided to use a
> non-stock fork column on George's fork. I sure hope it wasn't in an
> effort to save weight...
Check the cyclingnews.com article which includes discussion about that
very topic with the mechanic and Trek rep. They used the Satellite fork
because it had more rake than the standard Madone fork, and possibly
also because it had an aluminum rather than carbon fiber steerer.
Tim McNamara
"spin156" <spi...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Antti Salonen wrote:
> > Helmut Springer <delta+...@lug-s.org> wrote:
> >
>
> > Also there's absolutely no question that the steerer broke below
> > the stem. It was well visible on TV and for example here:
> >
> > http://www.velonews.com/images/int/9720.14346.f.jpg
> >
> > -as
>
> What I see in that picture is a gap of 3-4cm between the crown race
> and the bottom of the head tube. So, if you push the fork back
> up into the head tube maybe that 3-4cm will pop back out of the top
> and you can just bolt a new stem on it.
Not necessarily. If the part of the steerer clamped in the stem broke
off, there'd be nothing to restrain the fork in the head tube and it
could slip down quite easily. It would look just the same in that photo
if the stem slipped off the steerer and then the fork slipped down
through the headset. There's no way to tell from the photographs I have
seen yet.
Tim McNamara
dusto...@mac.com wrote:
I've been following bike racing for years and I remember no broken steel
forks in P-R. (Doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course, and it'd be
interesting to hear of any). Broken handlebars and broken stems aplenty.
I remember reading about Greg Lemond's mechanic drilling a hole through
the stem into the bars and putting in a wood screw to keep the bars from
slipping in the stem.
zenc...@bikerider.com
Tim McTeague wrote:
carbon. Looking at the
> photo of Hincapie's bike @ VeloNews
> http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/9720.0.html it appears that the
> stem just came off. Look below the lower headset cup and you can see the
> amount of steerer showing that would normally have the stem attached. My
> guess is the stem bolts either came loose or broke and the stem then popped
> off and the fork slipped down after the crash.
>
No, this was definitely a catastrophic break. If the stem and been
'loosened' by the previous crash, he would have known it was loose long
before the bars came off, then asked for a bike change. loose stems
don't just suddenly pop off. From what I saw of the footage (I Tivo'd
it frame by frame), there was one scene where the mechanic was holding
the bike upright and the fork was fully inserted into the headtube.
That scene showed no residual steerer above the headset. What clearly
happened here was that the steerer broke at the junction of the
headset/stem. The question is if the previous crash caused it, was the
stem too tight causing undue stresses, a combination of both? You can
bet the trek engineers will be analizing this one ten ways to sunday.
We may never know the real answer.
zenc...@bikerider.com
internet, to stay out of the news groups if I wanted to watch the
coverage on OLN that night. I'm surprised sheldon hasn't learned that
lesson yet.
Antti Salonen
> An expansion plug could easily stay with the stem if it popped out of
> the top of the steerer tube.
I fail to see how. Like the stem, the expander attaches only to the
steerer. If they both come off the steerer there is only gravity to keep
them together, and it doesn't help much when you perform a somersault.
Besides, I don't believe both the stem and the expansion plug could BOTH
just pop off the steerer all of a sudden. If the bolts broke on the
stem and it would come loose the rider would notice it or he would crash
if the bars suddenly rotate. The stem would still be kept on the
steerer tube by the expander and the cap.
-as
Blac...@palmpuzzle.com
the frame.
The steerer had to have broken at the top race for the star nut cap to
hang with the stem.
It is interesting that the fork/fr wheel did not come free of the
frame in the crash but it did not.
Now, who can say from the pictures that the steerer is black now that
we know what is visible below the lower race is the elastomer and not
the steerer?
Stig Ortiz
Ranch Abajo, KS
spin156
zenc...@bikerider.com wrote:
> Tim McTeague wrote:
> carbon. Looking at the
> > photo of Hincapie's bike @ VeloNews
> > http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/9720.0.html it appears that the
> > stem just came off. Look below the lower headset cup and you can see the
> > amount of steerer showing that would normally have the stem attached. My
> > guess is the stem bolts either came loose or broke and the stem then popped
> > off and the fork slipped down after the crash.
> >
>
> No, this was definitely a catastrophic break. If the stem and been
> 'loosened' by the previous crash, he would have known it was loose long
> before the bars came off, then asked for a bike change. loose stems
> don't just suddenly pop off.
I still agree with Tim McTeague. If you were watching the same
race I was then you must have noticed those guys arms vibrating like
crazy. Yet, you say that he would have known it was loose long
before. Sorry, but I disagree completely. Something could break
completely and you might not notice it until it became serious. On
smooth roads I would agree, but not under those conditions.
spin156
Blac...@palmpuzzle.com wrote:
> The gap of 3-4cm is an elastomer shock, not the steerer slipping out of
> the frame.
>
> The steerer had to have broken at the top race for the star nut cap to
> hang with the stem.
>
expansion plug.
As someone earlier pointed out, it's just there for the preload.
The stem does the real clamping. In fact, who's to say it was
even tight? Maybe it was an expansion plug that was not tight and
THAT contributed to the failure.
> It is interesting that the fork/fr wheel did not come free of the
> frame in the crash but it did not.
>
> Now, who can say from the pictures that the steerer is black now that
> we know what is visible below the lower race is the elastomer and not
> the steerer?
>
Someone earlier quoted an interview (pre-race) where it was said that
the steerer tube was alloy that had been "blasted" and anodized black.
Goodness knows why they would do that.
Cheers,
Bill
Mike DeMicco
Blac...@palmpuzzle.com wrote:
> The gap of 3-4cm is an elastomer shock, not the steerer slipping out of
> the frame.
No, there was no suspension in the fork, just in the seat stays. What
you see in http://www.velonews.com/images/int/9720.14346.f.jpg is the
shiny fork race and the black steerer tube.
Helmut Springer is right. It's obvious from the picture and the OLN
video that the steerer tube broke near the bottom of the stem, that the
piece of broken steerer tube is still inside the stem, visible through
the stem cutouts and is still held in place by the star nut and cap.
--
Mike DeMicco <blaster186...@comcast.net>
Jay Beattie
Jock Boyer brought some footage of the PR to a San Jose Bike Club
meeting many years ago when he was still racing. He had some nice
shots of guys with broken bars and stems going OTB. I was amazed at
the carnage. I guess that is why some racers see PR as a circus event.
-- Jay Beattie.
Greg Estep
> Now, who can say from the pictures that the steerer is black now that
> we know what is visible below the lower race is the elastomer and not
> the steerer?
This article, that was mentioned earlier,
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/apr06/roubaix06/?id=/tech/2006/features/hincapie_trek
has a reference to this photograph:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/index.php?id=hincapie_trek/IMG_9944
The stem pictured has a cutout through which the black stem is visible.
There is no guarantee, however, that this is the bike George was riding
when he crashed.
--
Greg Estep
Matt O'Toole
>> It sounds like they are saying that they anodized Hincapie's fork
>> steerer, and the normal Bontrager Satellite fork is not anodized black.
>> Anyone know if that is the case (Mike J.)? If so, I wonder why they
>> did that.
> That's true, and as yet I have no idea what it means or why they would
> do that. The color of anodizing is irrelevant, as far as I know,
> although some types of anodizing are limited in terms of how the
> appearance can be varied; thus, the fact that it's "black" anodizing may
> tell us something useful, but what that something is, I don't know. Yet.
> But I do suspect that, for whatever reason, someone decided to use a
> non-stock fork column on George's fork. I sure hope it wasn't in an
> effort to save weight...
I read some other blurb that this was taller, high clearance fork like a
touring or cross fork, to accept a bigger tire for the cobbles. Such
forks are rarely super lightweight, with carbon steerers, because it's not
an issue with touring cyclists.
I doubt anodizing has anything to do with this accident. If the bike was
crashed earlier in the race, there's a good chance the fork was damaged
enough to break later on.
Matt O.
G.T.
> Antti Salonen wrote:
>
>>Helmut Springer <delta+...@lug-s.org> wrote:
>>
>
>
>>Also there's absolutely no question that the steerer broke below the
>>stem. It was well visible on TV and for example here:
>>
>>http://www.velonews.com/images/int/9720.14346.f.jpg
>>
>>-as
>
>
> What I see in that picture is a gap of 3-4cm between the crown race and
> the bottom of the head tube. So, if you push the fork back up into
> the head tube maybe that 3-4cm will pop back out of the top and you can
> just bolt a new stem on it.
What you don't see is how far the steerer is down in the headtube. So
how can you tell how much steerer would be popping out of the top?
Greg
--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
Helmut Springer
>> No, this was definitely a catastrophic break. If the stem and
>> been 'loosened' by the previous crash, he would have known it was
>> loose long before the bars came off, then asked for a bike
>> change. loose stems don't just suddenly pop off.
>
> I still agree with Tim McTeague. If you were watching the
> same race I was then you must have noticed those guys arms
> vibrating like crazy. Yet, you say that he would have known it
> was loose long before. Sorry, but I disagree completely.
Have you ever been riding bad roads? If the stem becomes loose,
i.e. the bar can turn freely, you notice immediately as you are
applying considerable steering forces all the time...
G.T.
> Antti Salonen wrote:
>
>>spin156 <spi...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What I see in that picture is a gap of 3-4cm between the crown race and
>>>the bottom of the head tube. So, if you push the fork back up into
>>>the head tube maybe that 3-4cm will pop back out of the top and you can
>>>just bolt a new stem on it.
>>
>>I doubt it because as you can see, the top cap is still in its place on
>>top of the stem. Without a piece of steerer tube inside the stem, it
>>wouldn't be there after the somersault Hincapie made.
>>
>>-as
>
>
> I watched the OLN broadcast and did not see the footage that Victor
> talks about, but, that aside, what if the star nut (or expansion plug)
> failed as a result of the first crash?
So what if the star nut broke? The star nut isn't the primary retaining
system, and isn't really a retaining system at all, it's an adjustment
system.
G.T.
You're officially an idiot.
> If the stem bolts are tight, who's going to notice?
More importantly WHO FUCKING CARES?
> Unless they
> actually check the allen bolt in the plug. Then, if the stem got
> damaged in the first crash and loosened what would happen?
Nothing! Get a clue!
Blac...@palmpuzzle.com
Greg Estep wrote:
>
> has a reference to this photograph:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/index.php?id=hincapie_trek/IMG_9944
>
> The stem pictured has a cutout through which the black stem is visible.
> There is no guarantee, however, that this is the bike George was riding
> when he crashed.
>
> --
> Greg Estep
Interesting observation - Greg points out the steerer that can be seen
throught the extension cut out appears black but the lower section of
the steerer in this pic:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/index.php?id=hincapie_trek/IMG_9942
looks to be maybe painted silver. Could be the paint stops somewhere in
the middle.
The fork looks like something I'd like to have for bad roads and
cyclocross riding. Hopefully this failure can be attributed to the
earlier crash and be available on the market for some good dirt play.
Can we be sure he was riding the bike shown in the apr 2006 photos? Who
knows.
James Thomson
> Interesting observation - Greg points out the steerer that can be
> seen throught the extension cut out appears black but the lower
> section of the steerer in this pic:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/index.php?id=hincapie_trek/IMG_9942
> looks to be maybe painted silver. Could be the paint stops
> somewhere in the middle.
That's not the steerer. That's the seatstay wishbone with its elastomer
shock.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/index.php?id=hincapie_trek/IMG_9939
James Thomson
Helmut Springer
> Interesting observation - Greg points out the steerer that can be
> seen throught the extension cut out appears black but the lower
> section of the steerer in this pic:
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/index.php?id=hincapie_trek/IMG_9942
That picture shows the rear, not the front. See
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/index.php?id=hincapie_trek/IMG_9939
Jasper Janssen
>Also, I would like to add my thanks to all of those who posted the
>results of the race before the US broadcast. I guess I'll know
>better next year.
Why should we be expected to find out if and when any US or elsewhere
broadcast is going to happen before we post about it? If you care so much
about being spoiled, avoid related forums and conversations between the
event and your viewing of the event. How hard is that?
Jasper
Jasper Janssen
<capt...@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:
>Thanks _so_ much for posting that header before the U.S. broadcast.
>
>It certainly enhanced my enjoyment of the broadcast to know in advance
>that Hincapie would not be winning the event...
How on earth are we supposed to know that you don't watch events like this
live?
Jasper
Derk
> How on earth are we supposed to know that you don't watch events like this
> live?
Let's take this one step further: suppose there are people who get a video
tape of the race brought by donkey somewhere far away. Must we then avoid
speaking about the event for a month or so? I thought people who have
access to the Internet, and who are really interested, watched the race
live on the Net.
There are plenty of people here who stay up alle night to watch Formula 1
racing when this is being broadcast from another continent. Why wouldn't
this be true for cycling?
Gr, Derk
Ronald
> that would explain the failure.
I guess the stem design with the exposed sides also puts extra strain
on the bottom and top parts of the clamped steerer tube.
"philcycles" <philc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:1144625517.9...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
>
> quoted text:
>
> The photo of Hincapie sitting on the side of the road looks like either
> the stem broke or the steerer broke off at the top, by the upper
> headset
> race. I would have expected the break to be at the fork crown race,
> which would have been much more dangerous for Hincapie so alll things
> considered this failure was not as bad as might have been.
>
> If tightening the stem caused a small notch in the aluminium steerer
> that would explain the failure.
> Phil Brown
>
Lou Holtman
You are not to blame, Derk. Let's see Sheldon lives in the East isn't
he? Time difference is 6 hours. They finished around 17.00 hour local
time, so that would be around 11.00 o clock in the morning. That's not
in the middle of the night/very early in the morning I would say.
Lou
--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu
Sheldon Brown
>> There are plenty of people here who stay up alle night to watch Formula 1
>> racing when this is being broadcast from another continent. Why wouldn't
>> this be true for cycling?
>
Lou Holtman wrote:
>
> You are not to blame, Derk. Let's see Sheldon lives in the East isn't
> he? Time difference is 6 hours. They finished around 17.00 hour local
> time, so that would be around 11.00 o clock in the morning. That's not
> in the middle of the night/very early in the morning I would say.
Sunday was a beautiful spring day, and I went for a ride. The race was
broadcast at 6:00 in the evening.
I'm not objecting to discussion of the incident immediately on the
newsgroup, even though it is my impression that the majority of the
rearders of r.b.t. are west of the Atlantic.
My objection was to disclosing the _results_ in the _Subject:_ heading.
That was unnecessary and discourteous.
Could have been:
"Broken fork in Paris-Roubaix" or "Mechanical failure in Paris-Roubaix"
but mentioning Hincapie's name in the "Subject:" heading was totally
unnecessary and thoughtless.
This topic was also addressed on several email lists I subscribe to with
"Subject:" headings:
"spoiler - Paris-Roubaix - spoiler - Dang - spoiler",
"Carbon on Cobbles", "Paris-Roubaix", "Paris Roubaix Challenge"
Now, to get to the topic...interesting that it turns out to have been an
alumin(i)um steerer...I'm wondering if maybe it had thinner than usual
walls, and/or if an over-tightened star nut might have caused a stress
riser.
Then again, it's not impossible that Hincapie's earlier crash caused a
crack which then spread. If that was the case, I would have expected
there to be a noticeable difference in the feel of the bars,as the crack
developed because it wouldn't likely have snapped off suddenly with no
warning.
Of course, a racer in a high-adrenealine situation might well ignore a
tell-tale floppyness in the a the bars. After all, look at the
boneheads who risked their lives (and threw away their places) by
playing games with a fast moving train...
Sheldon "Adrenaline Plus Testosterone-A Deadly Combination" Brown
+------------------------------------------------+
| If you don't want your message to get to me, |
| insert **NO-SPAM** into my email address. |
+------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
John Forrest Tomlinson
>I still agree with Tim McTeague. If you were watching the same
>race I was then you must have noticed those guys arms vibrating like
>crazy. Yet, you say that he would have known it was loose long
>before. Sorry, but I disagree completely. Something could break
>completely and you might not notice it until it became serious. On
>smooth roads I would agree, but not under those conditions.
Normal roads (asphalt/concrete/etc) make up 80% of the race. The
stone road sections are about 55K of the race, in sections of 5K or
less I think. So between the first crash and the second he spent time
on normal roads.
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
diann...@yahoo.com
> Then again, it's not impossible that Hincapie's earlier crash caused a
> crack which then spread. If that was the case, I would have expected
> there to be a noticeable difference in the feel of the bars,as the crack
> developed because it wouldn't likely have snapped off suddenly with no
> warning.
Maybe he did notice some loose feeling in the bars, and perhaps spoke
on the team radio, but for some reason his support car couldn't deliver
a replacement bike in time? The point is, we don't know all the
details.
> Of course, a racer in a high-adrenealine situation might well ignore a
> tell-tale floppyness in the a the bars. After all, look at the
> boneheads who risked their lives (and threw away their places) by
> playing games with a fast moving train...
Yes, you must mean Boonen's group. They took a risk to duck around
those crossing barriers after the first train had passed. What if
there'd been a second train?!? I can't understand why they weren't
disqualified for the same infraction as the others.
Mike Jacoubowsky
verbatim)-
George Hincapie at Paris-Roubaix
Discovery Channel Pro cyclist George Hincapie crashed twice yesterday in the
famed Paris-Roubaix and was unable to finish. The last crash apparently a
result of the first incident happened when his aluminum steer tube broke at
the intersection with the stem.
"George was in a crash earlier in the day, but due to race conditions and
his comments that everything seemed fine, we did not change to his back up
bike" said Johan Bruyneel, Sports Manager of the Discovery Channel Pro
Cycling Team.
At the time of the second crash, George was commenting to team directors
that he felt looseness in his steering; he thought his head-set may have
come loose as a result of the earlier crash. Team directors were
determining when and how to swap to his replacement bike when George entered
another rough section of cobbles and crashed.
"I believe that the first crash set the stage for the big crash", said
Bruyneel. "Section after section the vibrations just kept coming until the
damaged steerer gave loose. We have been racing and winning on Trek
products for the last seven years. We have the utmost confidence in their
products, from design, to testing, to manufacturing. We have been very
impressed." Bruyneel continued.
"The cobbles do not discriminate", said Julien De Vriese, a forty year
veteran mechanic and the teams Head Mechanic.
Trek is bringing the fork and the bike back to the United States where they
will receive a thorough evaluation.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
G.T.
<diann...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1144714249.5...@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
> > Then again, it's not impossible that Hincapie's earlier crash caused a
> > crack which then spread. If that was the case, I would have expected
> > there to be a noticeable difference in the feel of the bars,as the crack
> > developed because it wouldn't likely have snapped off suddenly with no
> > warning.
>
> Maybe he did notice some loose feeling in the bars, and perhaps spoke
> on the team radio, but for some reason his support car couldn't deliver
> a replacement bike in time? The point is, we don't know all the
> details.
>
> > Of course, a racer in a high-adrenealine situation might well ignore a
> > tell-tale floppyness in the a the bars. After all, look at the
> > boneheads who risked their lives (and threw away their places) by
> > playing games with a fast moving train...
>
> Yes, you must mean Boonen's group.
Since he said "and threw away their places" it sounds to me like he's
talking about the Posty, er Disco, group that was DQd.
Greg
spin156
I just wanted to give my regards to Greg and others who resorted to
name calling and swearing. Those are most impressive traits for
people who think they should be stated seriously. Hey, I made it
quite clear that what I had to say was speculation, but that did not
stop the excoriation. I guess just having an opposing opinion
about something is not an option for many who frequent this forum.
That's pretty sad.
The fact that several of you support the notion that common courtesy is
an option is also a pretty sad commentary about today's world. I
have always found that people who are unwilling to listen to an
alternate opinion are pretty much not worth any credence. I, for
one, will continue to look at all sides and state my opinion.
When I start stating things as absolute fact and proven, and not
consider other's views, please feel free to wail away.
My respects to those who managed to keep their wits about themselves.
Cheers,
Bill
diann...@yahoo.com
> <diann...@yahoo.com> quoted Sheldon
> > > After all, look at the
> > > boneheads who risked their lives (and threw away their places) by
> > > playing games with a fast moving train...
> >
> > Yes, you must mean Boonen's group.
>
> Since he said "and threw away their places" it sounds to me like he's
> talking about the Posty, er Disco, group that was DQd.
>
> Greg
Right, I should have included a smiley face. :-)
Ozark Bicycle
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > It sounds like they are saying that they anodized Hincapie's fork steerer,
> > and the normal Bontrager Satellite fork is not anodized black. Anyone
> > know if that is the case (Mike J.)? If so, I wonder why they did that.
>
> That's true, and as yet I have no idea what it means or why they would do
> that. The color of anodizing is irrelevant, as far as I know, although some
> types of anodizing are limited in terms of how the appearance can be varied;
> thus, the fact that it's "black" anodizing may tell us something useful, but
> what that something is, I don't know. Yet.
>
> But I do suspect that, for whatever reason, someone decided to use a
> non-stock fork column on George's fork.
Is the stock fork column on a Bontrager Satellite fork steel or
aluminum?
> I sure hope it wasn't in an effort
> to save weight...
>
Why else use an aluminum fork column?
Tim McNamara
John Forrest Tomlinson <usenet...@jt10000.com> wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2006 08:18:48 -0700, "spin156" <spi...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >I still agree with Tim McTeague. If you were watching the same
> >race I was then you must have noticed those guys arms vibrating like
> >crazy. Yet, you say that he would have known it was loose long
> >before. Sorry, but I disagree completely. Something could
> >break completely and you might not notice it until it became
> >serious. On smooth roads I would agree, but not under those
> >conditions.
>
> Normal roads (asphalt/concrete/etc) make up 80% of the race. The
> stone road sections are about 55K of the race, in sections of 5K or
> less I think. So between the first crash and the second he spent time
> on normal roads.
Good point. Kilometers of smooth asphalt at times. Nice to see that
not everyone in this thread has taken leave of common sense.
Sally
news:JpD_f.64686$H71....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
> The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06
That's a pretty quick CYA. And without any update or concern about George's
condition.
Ozark Bicycle
Sally wrote:
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote in
> news:JpD_f.64686$H71....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>
> > The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06
>
> That's a pretty quick CYA.
That's what all those lawyers on retainer are for.
And didn't ya just love Bruyneel's kiss-the-sponsor's-ass statement?
This fork-failure/crash/injury must be really embarrassing to Trek
Corporate.
Michael Vang
It was a carbon fiber fork and steerer.
If GH won, or even podiumed, imagine the sales. They could push CF
wheels and forks as being "tough enough for Paris Roubaix". I can't
think of any logical reason to anodize an aluminum steerer black. I
think that was just a cover story.
I wonder if the CF wheels somehow contributed to the steerer's failure.
Would the ride be softer with those wheels, or would the cobblestone
vibrations be at a different amplitude or something? (I've never ridden
CF wheels nor cobbles.)
Has anyone found an online video snippet of the accident?
--
Mike (Xyzzy)
Phil Holman
"Ronald" <nom...@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:e1eiiq$ggn$1...@azure.qinip.net...
>> If tightening the stem caused a small notch in the aluminium steerer
>> that would explain the failure.
>
> I guess the stem design with the exposed sides also puts extra strain
> on the bottom and top parts of the clamped steerer tube.
No kidding. Eyeballing the hole size I would estimate it doubles the
bearing stress. There were plenty of 200 gram aluminum handle bar
failures several years back, failing at the edge of the stem clamp.
This reminds me of those failures. Rounding off or chamfering the bottom
corner of the stem clamp should help along with a trade in for a stem
with no cutouts.
Phil H
spin156
Thank you, Tim.
Oh, and for all of you that are so quick to call me an idiot ......
Did you happen to see the latest press release:
" ..... "George was in a crash earlier in the day, but due to race
conditions and
his comments that everything seemed fine, we did not change to his back
up
bike" said Johan Bruyneel, Sports Manager of the Discovery Channel Pro
Cycling Team.
At the time of the second crash, George was commenting to team
directors
that he felt looseness in his steering; he thought his head-set may
have
come loose as a result of the earlier crash. Team directors were
determining when and how to swap to his replacement bike when George
entered
another rough section of cobbles and crashed.
"I believe that the first crash set the stage for the big crash", said
Bruyneel. ..... "
If you take the time and go back and actually read the posts in this
thread, you will notice that there was one person who, early on in this
thread, speculated that the earlier of the two crashes contributed to
the eventual failure. Yeh, that was me. So, does this mean that
George and Johann are also idiots because they feel the same as I did?
I am certainly guilty of a little gloating here, but my point is
(again) that maybe a little tolerance of differing opinions is not such
a bad idea until all the facts are in. No one, including me, is
right all the time.
- steps off of soap box -
Cheers,
Bill
Mike Jacoubowsky
You might try to make a case for that with Bruyneel... maybe... but this
one?
"The cobbles do not discriminate", said Julien De Vriese, a forty year
veteran mechanic and the teams Head Mechanic.
Anyone who knows Julien would know better than to suggest that of something
he said.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycle...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
news:1144724815.6...@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
G.T.
Wooohoo, you're a smart guy. No one else thought about that, you
deserve an award!
Tell us again how a properly tightened top cap would have prevented his
crash?
G.T.
>
>
> I just wanted to give my regards to Greg and others who resorted to
> name calling and swearing. Those are most impressive traits for
> people who think they should be stated seriously. Hey, I made it
> quite clear that what I had to say was speculation, but that did not
> stop the excoriation. I guess just having an opposing opinion
> about something is not an option for many who frequent this forum.
> That's pretty sad.
No, it's sad that someone would continue in the face of much guidance
otherwise to spout such misinformation in a public forum.
>
> The fact that several of you support the notion that common courtesy is
> an option is also a pretty sad commentary about today's world.
And clearly you don't have the common courtesy to listen to other who
know better than you.
Tell us how the top cap or expander holds the stem onto the steerer?
Derk
> Could have been:
>
> "Broken fork in Paris-Roubaix" or "Mechanical failure in Paris-Roubaix"
> but mentioning Hincapie's name in the "Subject:" heading was totally
> unnecessary and thoughtless.
Nowhere did I write: "Hincapie out of Paris-Roubaix". He could have been
handed another bike and could have continued the race on that spare bike.
You concluded yourself he was out of the race.
If you know chances are someone will speak about an event on a newsgroup, I
would stay away from it till I had seen the TV broadcast. That's the reason
I never read Teletekst on TV when I haven't seen a rerun of a race.
Maybe we could all send a message to the TdF organisation asking not to air
anything live anymore , but to broadcast with delay in the evening, so that
people in other continents can do things first that they consider more
important without risking to hear the result of the race?
Gr, Derk
Jan Bijma
> Sheldon Brown wrote:
< cut >
> Yes, you must mean Boonen's group. They took a risk to duck around
> those crossing barriers after the first train had passed. What if
> there'd been a second train?!? I can't understand why they weren't
> disqualified for the same infraction as the others.
>
There could not have been a second train. It was a single track railway.
It is unsafe to pass BEFORE the train passed, but safe after that.
J.
John Forrest Tomlinson
>I am certainly guilty of a little gloating here, but my point is
>(again) that maybe a little tolerance of differing opinions is not such
>a bad idea until all the facts are in. No one, including me, is
>right all the time.
Well, going by rbtech conventional wisdom, several things are
*certain.* Here they are:
He wasn't on a steel bike. Big mistake -- does weight of the frame
really matter? He should've looked at losing a little weight himself.
Poser. I mean poseur. And there weren't even big hills in the event.
And the fork. It had carbon in it. Big mistake. Nuff said.
Plus he had a 12 cog (or maybe even an 11 -- gasp). It's well known
that almost no one can use gears like that, and it's faster to just
tuck anyway. Or learn to spin.
Plus, especially in a race like that, why the brifters? The riders
are going to crash and brifters are so fragile.
Those guys are such dumbasses -- caught up in all the marketing hype.
JT
John Forrest Tomlinson
<bicycle...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
>Sally wrote:
>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote in
>> news:JpD_f.64686$H71....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>>
>> > The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06
>>
>> That's a pretty quick CYA.
>
>That's what all those lawyers on retainer are for.
You're so nuts. Did some bike shop employee working for Trek steal
your wife or something? Where does this bitterness come from?
Ozark Bicycle
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > And didn't ya just love Bruyneel's kiss-the-sponsor's-ass statement?
>
> You might try to make a case for that with Bruyneel... maybe... but this
> one?
>
> "The cobbles do not discriminate", said Julien De Vriese, a forty year
> veteran mechanic and the teams Head Mechanic.
>
> Anyone who knows Julien would know better than to suggest that of something
> he said.
>
>
Sorry, Mike, but I don't see the connection here.
I didn't mean to imply any kind of knock on Trek *products*; P-R is a
tough test and stuff breaks. If they were playing with fork columns to
save ~50-100 grams, now they know better.
OTOH, I found Bruyneel's eagerness/willingness to pucker up and kiss
Corporate ass a little distasteful. YMMV.
Ozark Bicycle
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 10 Apr 2006 20:06:55 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
> <bicycle...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Sally wrote:
> >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote in
> >> news:JpD_f.64686$H71....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
> >>
> >> > The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06
> >>
> >> That's a pretty quick CYA.
> >
> >That's what all those lawyers on retainer are for.
>
> You're so nuts. Did some bike shop employee working for Trek steal
> your wife or something? Where does this bitterness come from?
>
>
So, you don't think that statement from Trek was cleared through
lawyers, JackAss?
spin156
G.T. wrote:
>
> Tell us again how a properly tightened top cap would have prevented his
> crash?
>
> Greg
For the record, I never said that a properly tigthened top cap would
have prevented his crash. What I said was that it might have not
been tightenned properly and may have contributed to the crash.
Try quoting properly without the editorializing. You'd have made a
great historian back in the days of the old U.S.S.R.
Cheers,
Bill
dusto...@mac.com
Tim McNamara wrote:
> I've been following bike racing for years and I remember no broken steel
> forks in P-R. (Doesn't mean it didn't happen, of course, and it'd be
> interesting to hear of any). Broken handlebars and broken stems aplenty.
During the OLN coverage, P. Sherwen said something about Sean Kelly
breaking his fork at a certain place, I believe a pave corner. --D-y
Ozark Bicycle
Didn't Dubya and Co hire all those unemployed Soviet "historians"?
John Forrest Tomlinson
<bicycle...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
Sure it might be, but that's so tangential to the discussion here,
especially considering Hincapie isn't about to sue Trek. Your
comments demonstrate such anti-lawyner, anti-marketing contempt it's
nutty. There are times those sentiments might be appropriate, but you
seem to relish displaying them. So I ask again -- why the bitterness?
D'ohBoy
> Your comments demonstrate such anti-lawyner, anti-marketing contempt it's
> nutty. There are times those sentiments might be appropriate, but you
> seem to relish displaying them. So I ask again -- why the bitterness?
Probably the carbon. OB has a thing - he keeps spouting about
"soul-less" bikes which he, apparently, has extrapolated to the mfr's
of same.
Plus, lawyers and marketeers ARE frequently agents of Satan.
D'ohBoy
dusto...@mac.com
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> I didn't mean to imply any kind of knock on Trek *products*; P-R is a
> tough test and stuff breaks. If they were playing with fork columns to
> save ~50-100 grams, now they know better.
Crashed aluminum?
> OTOH, I found Bruyneel's eagerness/willingness to pucker up and kiss
> Corporate ass a little distasteful. YMMV.
I'm not "connected" with Trek. My neighbor is. People work there. I
think of Bruyneel's words as a reminder of lots of prior service, not
so much of a "pucker". By all means, call 'em as you see 'em. --D-y
Qui si parla Campagnolo
spin156 wrote:
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
> > john wrote:
> > > I believe that I saw the right end of his drops penetrate the rt. side
> > > of his front wheel, locking up the front wheel. Either that or some how
> > > the front brake was activated. The front wheel was hopping as if it
> > > were restrained, to further add to the calamity. Has anyone heard how
> > > he is doing? I'm not wildly pro helmet, but I don't see how anyone
> > > could argue that he would have been better off, had he not been wearing
> > > one.
> > >
> > > John
> >
> > 29 posts and finally one asking if he broke his collarbone. I wonder
> > that too. Something breaks at P-R and keeps somebody from finsihing,
> > that has been happening for over a century....not news.
>
>
> >From today's CyclingNews.com:
>
> " Hincapie diagnosed with fracture
>
> George Hincapie, the man who probably suffered the worst fate of all in
> this 104th Paris-Roubaix - his steerer tube breaking when he had all
> the chances for a victory in the race - has been diagnosed with a
> fracture between his collarbone and shoulder blade. The Discovery rider
> will return to the United States on Monday to get an operation.
>
> "We don't know yet how long Hincapie will be out of competition," team
> director Dirk Demol told Belgian media. "It is a severe injury, that's
> for sure." X-rays in hospital reveled a fracture of about three
> centimetres. "
>
> >
> > If they ever published what actually broke on all the teams I think it
> > would be amazing. I'm amazed bikes make it at all.
>
> Yes, I agree. How about there was an expansion plug that was not
> adequately tight?
> If the stem bolts are tight, who's going to notice? Unless they
> actually check the allen bolt in the plug. Then, if the stem got
> damaged in the first crash and loosened what would happen? Hey, the
> whole bar/stem assy comes off in your hands. I am going to be very
> surprised if they don't tie the ultimate failure to the first crash.
Expansion plug is for HS adjust only. After adjusting, the expansion
plug and SFNut could be removed with no ill effect. The fork steerer
failed, nothing new at P-R...Point at anything on a bike and I am sure
at some point in some P-R, it has broken.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Brian Phillips wrote:
> According to this:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/apr06/roubaix06/?id=/tech/2006/features/hincapie_trek
> it's an aluminum steerer. Add an extra syllable if you're British.
> Boonen's bike on the other hand, has a steel steerer:
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2006/apr06/roubaix06/index.php?id=boonen_time/IMG_9914
>
>
>
> "Tim McNamara" <tim...@bitstream.net> wrote in message
> news:timmcn-2A3CFB....@news.iphouse.com...
> > In article <44392a09$0$11072$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>,
> > Derk <nob...@invalid.org> wrote:
> >
> > > My guess is that this event will be often cited in discussions about
> > > carbon forks.
> >
> > Well, at least not until we know more. The scanty information isn't
> > enough, basically per cyclingnews.com Belgian TV reported that the
> > aluminum steerer broke.
And some Willier frames were steel..so what, steel has broken before
also. Everything breaks at P-R
> >
> > There are other reports of catastrophic failure of carbon forks to talk
> > about already. ;-)
Vee
Yeah, it seems like there are always plenty of mechanicals to go around
on this race. My question is, why don't they ride bikes that are
suitable for the cobbles? Would the 5-6 pound weight penalty of a
sturdy cross bike slow them down? Surely 700x38 or 700x42 tires would
be much easier on the bikes and riders than
kasillyum-race-lite-4000-tubie tires.
-Vee
Ozark Bicycle
John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> On 11 Apr 2006 04:15:32 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
> <bicycle...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
> >> On 10 Apr 2006 20:06:55 -0700, "Ozark Bicycle"
> >> <bicycle...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Sally wrote:
> >> >> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote in
> >> >> news:JpD_f.64686$H71....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
> >> >>
> >> >> > The official press release, from Zapata Espinosa at Trek, 4/10/06
> >> >>
> >> >> That's a pretty quick CYA.
> >> >
> >> >That's what all those lawyers on retainer are for.
> >>
> >> You're so nuts. Did some bike shop employee working for Trek steal
> >> your wife or something? Where does this bitterness come from?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >So, you don't think that statement from Trek was cleared through
> >lawyers, JackAss?
>
> Sure it might be, but that's so tangential to the discussion here,
> especially considering Hincapie isn't about to sue Trek. Your
> comments demonstrate such anti-lawyner, anti-marketing contempt it's
> nutty. There are times those sentiments might be appropriate, but you
> seem to relish displaying them. So I ask again -- why the bitterness?
>
>
Take your time, JackAss.