Stupid LBS tricks
Blair P. Houghton
(it's cheap, it's quick, and they don't have to keep going back to the
LBS for parts).
The dufus who finally did the work seems to have greased my shifters.
My /friction/ shifters.
Now every time I get out of the saddle and hammer, the varying pull on
the front der cable (because of the flex in my steel frame) tugs the
lever to a slacker position, dropping the der halfway to shifting off
the big ring, so every time I sit down I have to readjust the lever.
The tension screw is plenty tight, in case you're wondering. I should
get in there with some solvent sometime soon.
Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be wrenches.
--Blair
o...@ozarkbicycleservice.com
The problem is that many (most?) shops lack "institutional memory". The
guys doing the work know nothing of 5/6/7SP bikes, DT shifters,
barends, friction shifters, etc.,etc. Also, those bikes are often
regarded as "another old, outdated POS" and are treated accordingly.
> Mommas don't let your babies grow up to be wrenches.
>
>
Watch it, a posse might form! ;-)
David Griffith
My LBS clamped my vintage Pinarello to a stand without using any
padding. They ruined a vintage Columbus decal.
dcg
Blair P. Houghton
David Griffith wrote:
> My LBS clamped my vintage Pinarello to a stand without using any
> padding. They ruined a vintage Columbus decal.
You shoulda strung 'em up and buried 'em with their cleats on.
--Blair
"Vintage vengeance."
raa...@hotmail.com
David Griffith wrote:
>
> My LBS clamped my vintage Pinarello to a stand without using any
> padding. They ruined a vintage Columbus decal.
>
> dcg
that was so you wouldn't notice where the frame was originally crimped
damyth
I don't know where you come from, but friction shifters are SUPPOSED to
be lightly greased, especially campy ones. That wrench knows his
stuff. The grease allows the shifters to be tightened sufficiently to
achieve smooth progressive lever movement (w/o slipping) instead of
"ratcheting" action. If you can't seem to tighten the lever enough it's
most likely because your screw is bottoming out in the shifter boss, or
you have very worn shifter internals.
Collin O'Neill
have the right freewheel tool. The guy tried it without a vice until his
supervisor suggested putting the tool in a vice and rotating the wheel
instead. So in the vice went the tool, clamped together with a skewer,
and he turned - and turned - and turned - and turned - and turned.
I took it home and spent an hour cleaning and chasing the threads with
the only tools I had - another freewheel, picks, steel wool and
cleaners. Thankfully he only destroyed about three or four threads.
Then I bought the tool so I could do it myself in the future.
o...@ozarkbicycleservice.com
Ah, but it sounds as if the OP's bike *didn't* hava this problem before
it went to the shop. Did the screw get longer, the boss shorter or the
shifter internals wear whilst the bike was in the shop?
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Damyth,
I was curious, so I browsed the archives for friction shifters and
grease.
Andrew Muzi at www.yellowjersey.org agrees with you:
"Like their ancestors, Campagnolo 1013s, a nice film of oil or grease
on
clean surfaces moves easily and stays put."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/615fd82737503d34
This makes sense. After all, most metal parts intended to move back and
forth against each other are better off when lubricated.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Mike Jacoubowsky
> be lightly greased, especially campy ones. That wrench knows his
> stuff. The grease allows the shifters to be tightened sufficiently to
> achieve smooth progressive lever movement (w/o slipping) instead of
> "ratcheting" action. If you can't seem to tighten the lever enough it's
> most likely because your screw is bottoming out in the shifter boss, or
> you have very worn shifter internals.
The problem might not be where the grease is, but where it isn't. If the
mechanic didn't lube the screw that tightens the shift lever, you may not be
able to get it tight enough to hold things in place.
It's also possible that things are so worn out that the only reason things
were staying in place was due to corrosion etc. Cleaning things up exposed
those issues.
Still, it's not an excuse for not discovering in the repair stand or on a
test ride that the shifter wasn't holding things in gear. Don't know if that
warrants a rant on usenet though. Could be a visit to the shop and someone
will quickly recognize and fix the problem.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"damyth" <mdk.10...@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:1158698529.1...@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
John Forrest Tomlinson
<blair.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>A couple of weeks ago I left my bike at an LBS for a teardown and lube
>(it's cheap, it's quick, and they don't have to keep going back to the
>LBS for parts).
>
>The dufus who finally did the work seems to have greased my shifters.
>
>My /friction/ shifters.
>
>Now every time I get out of the saddle and hammer, the varying pull on
>the front der cable (because of the flex in my steel frame) tugs the
>lever to a slacker position, dropping the der halfway to shifting off
>the big ring, so every time I sit down I have to readjust the lever.
I greased friction shifter with no problems (Campagnolo and Simplex).
A friction-shifter greased with the adjustment set pretty tight seemed
to work more consistently than one dry with the adjustment looser.
>The tension screw is plenty tight, in case you're wondering. I should
>get in there with some solvent sometime soon.
Can you make it tighter? If so, do it.
--
JT
****************************
Remove "remove" to reply
Visit http://www.jt10000.com
****************************
Donald Gillies
>I don't know where you come from, but friction shifters are SUPPOSED to
>be lightly greased, especially campy ones. That wrench knows his
>stuff. The grease allows the shifters to be tightened sufficiently to
>achieve smooth progressive lever movement (w/o slipping) instead of
>"ratcheting" action.
Campy's been making stuff for almost 75 years. You are quoting
information from one particular type of shifter (indexed C-record or
something from the late 1980's). As far as I know all the friction
shifters that never indexed - from campy - FAIL to stay in position if
you grease them. I just fixed mine last week, in fact.
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
carl...@comcast.net
wrote:
Dear Don,
Andrew Muzi at www.yellowjersey.org disagrees with you:
"Like their ancestors, Campagnolo 1013s, a nice film of oil or grease
on clean surfaces moves easily and stays put."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/615fd82737503d34
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Donald Gillies
>Dear Don,
>Andrew Muzi at www.yellowjersey.org disagrees with you:
>"Like their ancestors, Campagnolo 1013s, a nice film of oil or grease
>on clean surfaces moves easily and stays put."
>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/615fd82737503d34
Carl,
I think you might want to take this up with Andrew Muzi.
Donald Gillies
>Dear Don,
>Andrew Muzi at www.yellowjersey.org disagrees with you:
>"Like their ancestors, Campagnolo 1013s, a nice film of oil or grease
>on clean surfaces moves easily and stays put."
>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/615fd82737503d34
Carl,
The 1013 is a one-sided shifter of 1960 with no thumb screw.
There are at least 4 versions of the 1014 shifters ( I know because I
have all of them ), each has a different type of washer material
and/or thumb screw depth. Which ones are you ascribing to Andrew
Muzi's comments ??
I think you might want to bring these typos to the attention of Andrew
Muzi, not myself.
David L. Johnson
> A couple of weeks ago I left my bike at an LBS for a teardown and lube
> (it's cheap, it's quick, and they don't have to keep going back to the
> LBS for parts).
>
> The dufus who finally did the work seems to have greased my shifters.
>
> My /friction/ shifters.
Explain to me again the advantage of going to a shop to maintain the bike?
But the auto-shifting when out of the saddle is also a symptom of the
cable guides under the bottom bracket needing lubrication. Try that, as
well as cleaning the grease out of your shifters.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President
_`\(,_ | should on no account be allowed to do the job. -- Douglas Adams
(_)/ (_) |
damyth
This is the prime example of "no good deed goes unpunished."
The mere fact that this wrench knows to grease the friction shifter
tells me the wrench knows his stuff and is relatively thorough. Look
at how "greasing friction shifter" comes as a surprise to many people
in this thread, including at least one bike shop owner. And even out
of the total population of wrenches who do know about greasing the
shifter, I'd wager there are many who wouldn't bother greasing the
shifter for a "tune-up" job.
There are many reasons why the wrench didn't discover that the lever
wasn't tight enough. The OP says the problem only shows up when he
gets up and hammers. Perhaps the wrench is no longer a spring chicken
and doesn't have as much power as the OP, or maybe he was too short to
test ride the bike. (I belong to the latter, and can't test ride many
bikes, as I ride a 50cm myself.)
More importantly, the OP states this only happens to the left (front)
shifter. This begs the question why it doesn't happen on the right
shifter. I'd assume the wrench greased BOTH shifters.
Back in the day, it was very rare where I didn't have to grind off the
shifter screw by 1mm or more cause there was always brass or some other
junk in the boss, even on new frames. I'd say I had to grind off at
least one screw on each bike 75% of the time.
And to the OP, you can easily test the theory that the screw is
bottoming out by installing a washer betw. the screw head and the
outmost shifter assembly. I'd wager the auto-shift problem goes away.
David L. Johnson
> I don't know where you come from, but friction shifters are SUPPOSED to
> be lightly greased, especially campy ones. That wrench knows his
> stuff. The grease allows the shifters to be tightened sufficiently to
> achieve smooth progressive lever movement (w/o slipping) instead of
> "ratcheting" action.
Hmm. I never greased my friction shifters (Campy), with no resultant
problem. They had a cork (IIRC) washer in there, which tends to not react
well with oil. But mine never ratcheted, either.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored
_`\(,_ | by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo
(_)/ (_) | Emerson
David L. Johnson
> I had a vintage campy freewheel removed by the LBS, because I didn't
> have the right freewheel tool. The guy tried it without a vice until his
> supervisor suggested putting the tool in a vice and rotating the wheel
> instead. So in the vice went the tool, clamped together with a skewer,
> and he turned - and turned - and turned - and turned - and turned.
When I had my frame cold set to 130mm, I also took in my rear wheels to
have them re-dished and to put 8-speed freewheels on them. They returned
my old 5-speed freewheels in a bag, since they had no idea how to remove
them. They had taken the freewheels apart and chocked the inner core in a
vice.
Last time I took anything to them, clearly.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | Enron's slogan: Respect, Communication, Integrity, and
_`\(,_ | Excellence.
(_)/ (_) |
john
You didn't mention what model of dt shifter you have. IIRC it's
possible to assemble some incorrectly causing them not to hold. Again
IIRC I've greased mine & they held.
Good luck, John
damyth
Nice diversion attempt. Why don't YOU go look up the catalogs at
campyonly.com, say the ones from 60's (the era you cite). There you
will certainly find 1013 levers with D-ring thumb screws. I'd like to
see you dodge this.
You asserted earlier that I was quoting info from some late 80's
C-Record indexed shifter. I'll have you know I was in the business
well before Valentino took over. Indexing at Campy never took place
afaik under Tullio's reign.
Any wrench worth their salt who worked under Tullio's reign knows that
shifter internals need a light layer of grease. If you bothered to
study campy shifter internals you'd understand why. They performed way
better (and stayed that way) than dry levers.
ajam...@hotmail.com
damyth wrote:
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
Snippage
>
> This is the prime example of "no good deed goes unpunished."
>
> Back in the day, it was very rare where I didn't have to grind off the
> shifter screw by 1mm or more cause there was always brass or some other
> junk in the boss, even on new frames. I'd say I had to grind off at
> least one screw on each bike 75% of the time.
>
> And to the OP, you can easily test the theory that the screw is
> bottoming out by installing a washer betw. the screw head and the
> outmost shifter assembly. I'd wager the auto-shift problem goes away.
I was interested in the rider blaming frame flex for the shifter
backing off and I could not help thinking back to the Mexican built
Benottos where just about every frame cracked due to overheating at the
welds..
"My bike shifts on its own!, I'll just be riding along and go over a
bump and it startsshifting all over the place!"
Not sure which shifters I'm rembembering at this point but I would look
for excess wear on the internal washers or even missing washers..
Vee
> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:57:24 -0700, Blair P. Houghton wrote:
>
> > A couple of weeks ago I left my bike at an LBS for a teardown and lube
> > (it's cheap, it's quick, and they don't have to keep going back to the
> > LBS for parts).
> >
> > The dufus who finally did the work seems to have greased my shifters.
> >
> > My /friction/ shifters.
>
> Explain to me again the advantage of going to a shop to maintain the bike?
Isn't this is the guy who had a conniption when he bought a new wheel
(130mm hub) but he couldn't figure out how to make it fit his shabby
old bike (126mm Holdsworth)? If so, there's your answer: some people
couldn't do worse than service the bike themselves.
-Vee
Qui si parla Campagnolo
greasing by itself, may not be tyour problem. Hopefully when he
reassembled them, he put all the stuff back in, in the proper order. Is
the bolt unscrewing? A wee bit of blue octite on the threads. BTW-I
lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't move..
>
> --Blair
David L. Johnson
No, it isn't.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
_`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds,
(_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't
kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).
carl...@comcast.net
wrote:
>carl...@comcast.net writes:
Dear Don,
Elsewhere in this thread, Peter Chisholm says pretty much the same
thing as Andrew Muzi:
"BTW-I lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't
move."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/post?inreplyto=367e77e0acb4f65e&reply_to=group&_done=%2Fgroup%2Frec.bicycles.tech%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F3bae711f2413f2f3%2F45166623b8bc036e%3Ftvc%3D1%26&auth=DQAAAG0AAAAJDYubzPxv1HaItmix_im8wK-VgSU26E-fhtOVCcuNoSd_p-3KwdSv8PIaNE1ySDOFXCq-9RDAfuSHA-YkmcoAlSo1qZcxPM-bbAgHLyJAIpTlND5Jq1s51CuVPoUOqoYLOS5LcsqPUriQ3-TYFt02
or http://tinyurl.com/z24r4
In general, metal parts intended to move against each other are going
to do better when lubricated.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Vee
My apologies to the OP.
-Vee
Mike Jacoubowsky
> information from one particular type of shifter (indexed C-record or
> something from the late 1980's). As far as I know all the friction
> shifters that never indexed - from campy - FAIL to stay in position if
> you grease them. I just fixed mine last week, in fact.
>
> - Don Gillies
> San Diego, CA
Don: My Iron Pig (rain bike) has Campy 1014 downtube shifters, and I've
*always* applied a light amount of grease to the metal/metal contact points.
Otherwise you just get "scratchy" shifting from the abrasion between the
surfaces. It does make it a challenge to make sure things are tight enough
though. Lubing the tightening screw is a definite requirement, and sometimes
replacing the plastic pieces can make a world of difference (perhaps some
are harder than others, or become harder with age?).
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Donald Gillies" <gil...@cs.ubc.ca> wrote in message
news:eepuqc$j7b$1...@cascade.cs.ubc.ca...
Mike Jacoubowsky
> reassembled them, he put all the stuff back in, in the proper order. Is
> the bolt unscrewing? A wee bit of blue octite on the threads. BTW-I
> lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't move..
Sorry, has to be 1014 or older to be truly retro. Heck, C-Record levers can
probably be used with a triple without doing a complete 360. Faux retro in
my book.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote in message
news:1158756238.5...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Donald Gillies
>You asserted earlier that I was quoting info from some late 80's
>C-Record indexed shifter. I'll have you know I was in the business
>well before Valentino took over. Indexing at Campy never took place
>afaik under Tullio's reign.
>Any wrench worth their salt who worked under Tullio's reign knows that
>shifter internals need a light layer of grease. If you bothered to
>study campy shifter internals you'd understand why. They performed way
>better (and stayed that way) than dry levers.
Being "in the business" by no means disqualifies you from having
misconceptions about how to service a campagnolo shifter.
Donald Gillies
>"BTW-I lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't
>move."
>http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/post?inreplyto=367e77e0acb4f65e&reply_to=group&_done=%2Fgroup%2Frec.bicycles.tech%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fthread%2F3bae711f2413f2f3%2F45166623b8bc036e%3Ftvc%3D1%26&auth=DQAAAG0AAAAJDYubzPxv1HaItmix_im8wK-VgSU26E-fhtOVCcuNoSd_p-3KwdSv8PIaNE1ySDOFXCq-9RDAfuSHA-YkmcoAlSo1qZcxPM-bbAgHLyJAIpTlND5Jq1s51CuVPoUOqoYLOS5LcsqPUriQ3-TYFt02
>or http://tinyurl.com/z24r4
>In general, metal parts intended to move against each other are going
>to do better when lubricated.
>Cheers,
>Carl Fogel
Nice try Carl. I qualified my statement originally saying that the
original poster was talking about just one type of shifter (C-Record),
which was made for a very small number of years (less than 10),
vs. 1014 (double) or 1013 (single) downtube shifters, which were made
for 40+ years.
Donald Gillies
>> Campy's been making stuff for almost 75 years. You are quoting
>> information from one particular type of shifter (indexed C-record or
>> something from the late 1980's). As far as I know all the friction
>> shifters that never indexed - from campy - FAIL to stay in position if
>> you grease them. I just fixed mine last week, in fact.
>>
>> - Don Gillies
>> San Diego, CA
>Don: My Iron Pig (rain bike) has Campy 1014 downtube shifters, and I've
>*always* applied a light amount of grease to the metal/metal contact points.
>Otherwise you just get "scratchy" shifting from the abrasion between the
>surfaces. It does make it a challenge to make sure things are tight enough
>though. Lubing the tightening screw is a definite requirement, and sometimes
>replacing the plastic pieces can make a world of difference (perhaps some
>are harder than others, or become harder with age?).
>--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
Again, the plastic shifters were a late 1970's idea. The earlier
1970's shifters with brass bushings (and which date back to 1950) DO
NOT WORK WHEN LUBRICATED PERIOD. THEY SLIP. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE
CALLED FRICTION SHIFTERS. THAT'S THE SAME REPAIR (REMOVING THE
GREASE) THAT I AND THE ORIGINAL POSTER MADE TO OUR CAMPY SHIFTERS IN
JUST THE PAST 30 DAYS.
Would you heat an icepack?
Would you freeze some hot cross buns?
If not, then why oh why would you GREASE FRICTION SHIFTERS ??
damyth
Why would you need to grease handlebar clamps (or clamped area of
handlebar), even when both the stem and the handlebar are aluminum
(i.e. no galvanic corrosion)? Why is it that you can achieve higher
torque with greased bolts compared with dry bolts?
Or perhaps you provide us with a plausible explanation why there seems
to be sufficient friction on the right shifter on the OPs bike. The OP
complains only about the left lever slipping. Did the wrench only
grease the left lever? :)
I also notice you avoided responding to my earlier query re how is it
that 60's vintage 1013 levers have D-ring screws in the catalog when
you asserted that they didn't.
Michael Press
"David L. Johnson" <david....@lehigh.edu> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 05:23:44 -0700, Vee wrote:
>
> > David L. Johnson wrote:
> >> On Tue, 19 Sep 2006 10:57:24 -0700, Blair P. Houghton wrote:
> >>
> >> > A couple of weeks ago I left my bike at an LBS for a teardown and lube
> >> > (it's cheap, it's quick, and they don't have to keep going back to the
> >> > LBS for parts).
> >> >
> >> > The dufus who finally did the work seems to have greased my shifters.
> >> >
> >> > My /friction/ shifters.
> >>
> >> Explain to me again the advantage of going to a shop to maintain the bike?
> >
> > Isn't this is the guy who had a conniption when he bought a new wheel
> > (130mm hub) but he couldn't figure out how to make it fit his shabby
> > old bike (126mm Holdsworth)? If so, there's your answer: some people
> > couldn't do worse than service the bike themselves.
>
> No, it isn't.
It might as well be.
> --
>
> David L. Johnson
>
> __o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
> _`\(,_ | killed all of us? From every corner of Europe, hundreds,
> (_)/ (_) | thousands would rise up to take our places. Even Nazis can't
> kill that fast. -- Paul Henreid (Casablanca).
Marlene DuChard: And it is a thousand candles that will
burn for every brave soldier that marches to the steps
of the drums of liberty, so that tyranny will never
trample the spirit of freedom in the hearts of men,
throughout a world thrown into darkness and despair.
Colonel Schlissel: Well spoken - whatever it means. Ah,
may I present Miss DeBoop, like yourselves a well-built
exile?
Betty DeBoop: Hi, honey. Don't let the Heinie get you down.
Marlene DuChard: It is despots and tryants who run our
rivers red with the colors of a hundred trampled flags
that unfurl in the winds of liberty, blowing over
centuries of deprivation...
Paul DuChard: It's all right, darling, we made our point.
Marlene DuChard: ...where men who have known treachery
and treason can still light torches in the caves of
honor...
--
Michael Press
carl...@comcast.net
wrote:
>carl...@comcast.net writes:
Dear Don,
Now Mike Jacoubowsky seems to be disagreeing with you, as well as
Andrew Muzi and Peter Chisholm:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/07d766afbaef6e8c
And Damyth:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/msg/a32a22c646264315
They may all be wrong, or they may all be talking about a different
mechanism, but they do seem to be a reasonably experienced group of
mechanics and dealers.
Possibly we've discovered son-of-greased-taper?
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Blair P. Houghton
damyth wrote:
> Nice diversion attempt. Why don't YOU go look up the catalogs at
These are Shimano 600 shifters.
I just put them back together, after scraping a thick layer of grease
and
crud off the friction surfaces. Each of the friction joints (two on
each
shifter) has one metal side and one plastic-washer side. Greasing
them was not cool. And even if it was all metal-metal contact, it
would have been way too much.
The thumbscrews were not bottomed out. They were cranked too tight.
I'm lucky they weren't stripped and the D-rings weren't sprung and the
plastic parts weren't destroyed.
Now it feels like there's friction in there.
The crud was in there because the plastic seals are split (have been
for years) and dust can get in. Now that there's grease, it
collects...
--Blair
Mike Jacoubowsky
> 1970's shifters with brass bushings (and which date back to 1950) DO
> NOT WORK WHEN LUBRICATED PERIOD. THEY SLIP. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE
> CALLED FRICTION SHIFTERS. THAT'S THE SAME REPAIR (REMOVING THE
> GREASE) THAT I AND THE ORIGINAL POSTER MADE TO OUR CAMPY SHIFTERS IN
> JUST THE PAST 30 DAYS.
>
> Would you heat an icepack?
> Would you freeze some hot cross buns?
> If not, then why oh why would you GREASE FRICTION SHIFTERS ??
Er, gee, why are you yelling at me? Having said that, it's probably stupid
of me to ask what heating an ice pack or freezing hot cross buns has to do
with applying some grease to metal parts that have to move against each
other? If they were highly machined parts, sure, maybe they wouldn't need
grease. Maybe. But I think you might be getting too hung up on a term that
didn't exist when those levers were made. I seriously doubt we ever called
them "friction" shifters back then. Probably just "shifters" or maybe
"downtube shifters."
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"Donald Gillies" <gil...@cs.ubc.ca> wrote in message
news:eervh8$riv$1...@cascade.cs.ubc.ca...
* * Chas
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mik...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:bWeQg.4593$7I1....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> > Campy's been making stuff for almost 75 years. You are quoting
> > information from one particular type of shifter (indexed C-record or
> > something from the late 1980's). As far as I know all the friction
> > shifters that never indexed - from campy - FAIL to stay in position
if
> > you grease them. I just fixed mine last week, in fact.
> >
> > - Don Gillies
> > San Diego, CA
>
> Don: My Iron Pig (rain bike) has Campy 1014 downtube shifters, and
I've
> *always* applied a light amount of grease to the metal/metal contact
points.
> Otherwise you just get "scratchy" shifting from the abrasion between
the
> surfaces. It does make it a challenge to make sure things are tight
enough
> though. Lubing the tightening screw is a definite requirement, and
sometimes
> replacing the plastic pieces can make a world of difference (perhaps
some
> are harder than others, or become harder with age?).
>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
I always disassembled and thoroughly cleaned DT shift levers during a
tune-up. I carefully applied a light coat of grease to the bore of the
shift lever and the shaft being careful not to get grease into the
friction area.
I just finished putting together an old retro bike with Suntour Cyclone
II shift levers. Early into the first ride I had to stop and crank down
the right side D-Ring screw several times because the lever kept
loosening up and self shifting. They seem to be working fine now. I
attribute the problem to the Suntour shifters.
BTW, I've never liked Campy shift levers. The old Record and NR levers
always came loose!
Chas.
* * Chas
"Dion Dock" <dion_do...@mentor.com> wrote in message
news:45117264$1...@solnews.wv.mentorg.com...
> "David L. Johnson" <david....@lehigh.edu> wrote in message
>
> > When I had my frame cold set to 130mm, I also took in my rear wheels
to
> > have them re-dished and to put 8-speed freewheels on them. They
returned
> > my old 5-speed freewheels in a bag, since they had no idea how to
remove
> > them. They had taken the freewheels apart and chocked the inner
core in a
> > vice.
> >
> > Last time I took anything to them, clearly.
>
>
> Do you still use 5-speed freewheels? If they were so important, why
did you
> switch to 8-speed?
>
> -Dion
>
That's beside the point. David took his wheel into a LBS and they
trashed his freewheel because perhaps the mechanic (?) didn't know what
he was doing and wasn't bright enough to ask for help.
On the other hand, maybe the shop didn't have the correct freewheel tool
or the freewheel was damaged and couldn't be removed any other way.
Either way, they should have explained what happened!
Without knowing the details, I wouldn't feel comfortable having that
shop cold set my frame.
and.... I still have wheels that I ride with 5 speed freewheels. There
was life before 6, 7 and 8 speed freewheels!
Chas.
Retro Grouch
David L. Johnson
>> > Last time I took anything to them, clearly.
>>
>>
>> Do you still use 5-speed freewheels? If they were so important, why
> did you
>> switch to 8-speed?
>>
>> -Dion
>>
>
> That's beside the point. David took his wheel into a LBS and they
> trashed his freewheel because perhaps the mechanic (?) didn't know what
> he was doing and wasn't bright enough to ask for help.
Sure, the old freewheels were not important, but the kid told me that the
tool would not stay in the slots. He did not know how to use a
quick-release to hold the tool to the freewheel. Clearly, he had never
done this before, and no one at the shop could help.
>
> On the other hand, maybe the shop didn't have the correct freewheel tool
> or the freewheel was damaged and couldn't be removed any other way.
>
There were two of them. I might imagine one could have been damaged, but
both?
> Without knowing the details, I wouldn't feel comfortable having that
> shop cold set my frame.
Yeah, well that was done before the bag of pieces showed up.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy
* * Chas
aligned. It's easy to do with a piece of string or thin flexible wire.
Tie one end to one of the dropouts in the opening where it's brazed to
the seat stay. Wrap the string or wire around the head tube just above
the bottom headset cup so that it can't slide down any further and
tightly tie the loose end to the opposite dropout.
Check to make sure that the line is centered in the dropouts. Measure
the distance from the string or wire to the seat tube on both sides. The
distances should be within several millimeters of each other. If the
distance is greater, the shop may have just pulled out one chain stay to
get the 130mm wheel to fit or it could have come that way from the
factory.
I recently got a really good deal on a used 1990's Colnago Technos
frame. I was getting ready to install the bottom bracket and decided to
check out the rear triangle first because it looked a little off. It
came from the factory with an 11.5mm offset to the right side. So much
for Colnago quality.
If your chainstays are reasonably centered you can check to see that the
dropouts are aligned. This is best done with a set of dropout tools but
you can do a visual check as you slide in the rear wheel.
Make sure that they are aligned with the flange nuts on both sides of
the rear axle. The wheel should be centered between the chainstays and
the center of the rear brake caliper.
The rear derailleur cage should also be parallel to the plane of the
rear wheel.
If the dropouts are off you should have someone with dropout tools
adjust them.
Good luck....
Chas.
ajam...@hotmail.com
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> Er, gee, why are you yelling at me? Having said that, it's probably stupid
> of me to ask what heating an ice pack or freezing hot cross buns has to do
> with applying some grease to metal parts that have to move against each
> other? If they were highly machined parts, sure, maybe they wouldn't need
> grease. Maybe. But I think you might be getting too hung up on a term that
> didn't exist when those levers were made. I seriously doubt we ever called
> them "friction" shifters back then. Probably just "shifters" or maybe
> "downtube shifters."
>
As someone who was working on them way back when they were all that
was available ..
I remember shifters.. shift levers.. down tube shifters .. bar end
shifters.. stem shifters ...levers was always an accepable substitution
for shifters. IIRC, and I'm old but not all that old, "friction" only
showed up when we needed to diferentiate between "click shifters" or
"index shifters".
The Dura-Ace and ultegra "indexed" down-tube shifters on my wife and my
road bikes hav a friction setting... as do my XT thumb shifters and the
suntour xc-pro thumb shifters I'm still looking for as NOS. It is a
descriptor not a definition.
Yes I lube the down-tube shifters and would lube the XC-Pro shifters ..
the fact that I can't lube the XT shifters is why I want the XC-Pros..
Marian
David L. Johnson wrote:
> Explain to me again the advantage of going to a shop to maintain the bike?
How else am I going to flirt with the bike shop manager if I don't go
to the shop to maintain my bike?
-M
David L. Johnson
Go to the shop and buy stuff. Perhaps tight-fitting jerseys will help.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | And what if you track down these men and kill them, what if you
o...@ozarkbicycleservice.com
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > greasing by itself, may not be tyour problem. Hopefully when he
> > reassembled them, he put all the stuff back in, in the proper order. Is
> > the bolt unscrewing? A wee bit of blue octite on the threads. BTW-I
> > lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't move..
>
> Sorry, has to be 1014 or older to be truly retro. Heck, C-Record levers can
> probably be used with a triple without doing a complete 360. Faux retro in
> my book.
>
There is a difference between "retro" Campy fiction levers and Campy
C-Record "retro-friction" levers. I had a pair of the latter, purchased
new, in the early 1990s.
Hint: think "Simplex".
(Or were you just making a joke?) ;-)
Mike Jacoubowsky
> C-Record "retro-friction" levers. I had a pair of the latter, purchased
> new, in the early 1990s.
>
> Hint: think "Simplex".
>
> (Or were you just making a joke?) ;-)
The latter.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
<o...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
news:1158880247....@k70g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
* * Chas
I have Simplex Super LJ shift levers on 3 of my bikes. They feel like
they have a spring loaded friction mechanism similar to old Suntour
levers from the early 70's. I've never had to do anything to them in
20-30 years of occasional usage so I don't know what's inside.
Chas.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > greasing by itself, may not be tyour problem. Hopefully when he
> > reassembled them, he put all the stuff back in, in the proper order. Is
> > the bolt unscrewing? A wee bit of blue octite on the threads. BTW-I
> > lube my Campag C-Record retro friction shifters and they don't move..
>
> Sorry, has to be 1014 or older to be truly retro. Heck, C-Record levers can
> probably be used with a triple without doing a complete 360. Faux retro in
> my book.
Yer aunt matilda's mustache...anything less than 8s and no stoopid,
nancy click shifting is retro...1014 levers cvan handle triples as
well, as Gran Sport was triple compatible 4 decades ago.
Mike Jacoubowsky
>> can
>> probably be used with a triple without doing a complete 360. Faux retro
>> in
>> my book.
>
> Yer aunt matilda's mustache...anything less than 8s and no stoopid,
> nancy click shifting is retro...1014 levers cvan handle triples as
> well, as Gran Sport was triple compatible 4 decades ago.
Yeah right. Like I don't remember small-barrel shift levers from days of
yore. To be truthful, the Campy's weren't all that bad, much better than
Simplex. But it took Suntour to increase the barrel diameter such that a
triple didn't have to have the lever swing all the way back, almost parallel
to the downtube in some cases.
You gonna be at Interbike?
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote in message
news:1158929801.1...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...