Phil Wood Touring Hub
Michael Lueke
considering getting a new wheel built using Phil Wood's touring hub.
But I'm concerned about using "sealed" cartridge bearings.
I noticed on Phil Wood's website that the hub has "complete
serviceability". I don't understand. How can a hub use cartridge
bearings but still be field serviceable? Do they expect tourists to
carry spare cartridges? If so how bulky are they outside of the hub?
--
-------------
Michael S. Lueke
lu...@sdd.hp.com
so...@spamlesssoleassociates.com
»My touring bike rear wheel is starting to get broken spokes. I'm
»considering getting a new wheel built using Phil Wood's touring hub.
»But I'm concerned about using "sealed" cartridge bearings.
»
»I noticed on Phil Wood's website that the hub has "complete
»serviceability". I don't understand. How can a hub use cartridge
»bearings but still be field serviceable? Do they expect tourists to
»carry spare cartridges? If so how bulky are they outside of the hub?
I don't know what they "expect", but at least while touring in
North America, my attitude toward replacement parts has changed
since my youth. Reason? FEDEX. You could have that cartridge by
"morning".
--
-Kenneth
If you email please remove the "SPAMLESS."
Chris Neary
>How can a hub use cartridge bearings but still be field serviceable?
IIRC, the Phil Wood hub can be disassembled with a single allen wrench.
That is what they mean by field serviceable.
Chris Neary
dia...@aimnet.com
"It doesn't get any easier - you just go faster" - Greg Lemond
Adam Rice
<lu...@epg.sdd.hp.com> wrote:
>My touring bike rear wheel is starting to get broken spokes. I'm
>considering getting a new wheel built using Phil Wood's touring hub.
>But I'm concerned about using "sealed" cartridge bearings.
>
>I noticed on Phil Wood's website that the hub has "complete
>serviceability". I don't understand. How can a hub use cartridge
>bearings but still be field serviceable? Do they expect tourists to
>carry spare cartridges? If so how bulky are they outside of the hub?
The hub can be disassembled with a couple of allen keys (5 mm, I think).
The bearings can be swapped out, and IIRC, are a size that can be found in
many auto-supply stores (although maybe not made to PW's exacting
tolerances).
It's a nice hub, and it's built like a brick s*ithouse. With four (?)
cartridge bearings to support the load, it's unlikely you'll need that
servicability.
Adam Rice | adam...@crossroads.net | Check out
Austin TX USA | http://www.crossroads.net | XJ: Translation Jobs
CV2572
Michael Lueke <lu...@epg.sdd.hp.com> writes:
>My touring bike rear wheel is starting to get broken spokes. I'm
>considering getting a new wheel built using Phil Wood's touring hub.
>But I'm concerned about using "sealed" cartridge bearings.
>
>I noticed on Phil Wood's website that the hub has "complete
>serviceability". I don't understand. How can a hub use cartridge
>bearings but still be field serviceable? Do they expect tourists to
>carry spare cartridges? If so how bulky are they outside of the hub?
>
Yes, no, yes, no. ;-)
What is PW "touring hub"? If you refer to the FSC (Field Servicable Cassette)
hub, it is servicable with two (5mm?) allen wrenches. This means that you can
completely disassemble the hub for service. My experience with cart. bearing
hubs is that they don't severely fail, in bicycle use anyway, so you can go on
(so, they ain't baby-butt smooth) until you can find some bearings (which are
common size and not special in any way). The bearings can grind away, and you
won't hurt the hub at all. Also, you can repack many of these cart. bearings,
extending their lives significantly. Just carefully pry off the seal, clean,
regrease, replace seal, and go ....
What's wrong with carrying a spare set of bearings (say, one of each size for
hub, bb, etc.)? It's not like you'd need them _all_ replaced at once, anyway,
is it?
Robin Hubert
JYates605
>
>It's a nice hub, and it's built like a brick s*ithouse. With four (?)
>cartridge bearings to support the load, it's unlikely you'll need that
>servicability.
>
I agree the hubs are well built, but there's a common misunderstanding about "4
bearing" cassette hubs. Sly marketing would have consumers believe that 4
bearing hubs are better or more durable than 2 bearing hubs. In truth, these
hubs have the same 2 bearings to "support the load". The extra bearings are
inside the freehub body, and are only for it to spin on. No load (meaning
weight on the bike) is caried by these bearings. They still have the service
advantages, though, and are primarily why aluminum is usable in the freehub
body.
BTW, I think the Phil actually has 5. This IS for durability. Since the
load-carrying bearing is inboard of the freehub (like the old freewheel
design), placing 2 here is supposedly better. Using a larger diameter axle and
bearing would do the job better, but is more expensive to manufacture.
Jon Schaer
jyat...@aol.com
Ebbikes
well-designed, beautifully made, absolutely immortal, and heavy.Their cassette
hub is one of the two aftermarket rears that I will unconditionally recommend(
the other is Chris King). The flanges have excellent spoke support( no more
broken spokes), the axle is a piec e of 1/2" hollow stainless, and the freebody
is machined from a piece of stainless roundstock.
The field-seviceable part refers to the user's ability to completely
disasassemble the hub in adverse conditions using a pair of 6mm allens. Getting
into the bearings to regrease them requires a pin.
The bearings(6902 2rs) are a standard industrial bearing size, and are
likely available globally. Quality will vary, but availability likely won't.
They are the only parts of that hub you may need in the wasteland. The rest is
built for the blast, and priced accordingly.
By way of illustrative example, I had a bike-builder/shop grom last year who
was in mid globe-circling tour when he hit Seattle. Next stop was Beijing. His
hubs were dead when he got here. I sent him on with a pair of Phil's.
Luck
Eamon Stanley
Elliott Bay Bikes.
Joshua_Putnam
>Michael Lueke <lu...@epg.sdd.hp.com> wrote:
>>How can a hub use cartridge bearings but still be field serviceable?
>IIRC, the Phil Wood hub can be disassembled with a single allen wrench.
>That is what they mean by field serviceable.
Similarly, the Bullseye suspension hub on my mountain bike can be
taken apart with a single allen wrench, and the bearings pressed
out with hand pressure on the axle, allowing you to either
re-lube the bearings or replace them in the field with minimal
tools. I've done it literally in a field, after flooding the hub
in rainy weather -- pulled the bearings out and washed them with
oil when the hub started sounding crunchy.
After that I put an oil cap in the center of the hub shell, one
of those spring loaded steel caps like an old Sturmey Archer
3-speed, so I can clean and lube the bearings with oil without
taking the hub apart. Oil doesn't last as long as grease, but
it's easy to replenish.
--
Jo...@WolfeNet.com is Joshua Putnam / P.O. Box 13220 / Burton, WA 98013
For sale on Ebay: C-Record pedal set, new in box. See listing at
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=57100754
Frank Miles
Ebbikes <ebb...@aol.com> wrote:
>There is an old wisecrack about "full-ton phil". It's apt. Phil stuff is
>well-designed, beautifully made, absolutely immortal, and heavy.
Not quite immortal. The BB on my touring/commuting bike is now on its third
rebuilding. Since it predates the "field replaceable" bearings, the
substantial increase in the service cost ($30 for the last one) is
getting less pleasing. The last time it failed, the right hand bearing
came completely apart. Rust damage from too much riding in the rain.
I used to recommend Phil components without reservation. Now I'm not so
sure.
-frank
CV2572
f...@u.washington.edu (Frank Miles) writes:
PW bb's never had field servicable bearings. Only the hubs have this feature.
The folks at PW said this is because of the higher stress in the bb
spindle/bearing interface, as compared to hubs, which requires them to be
pressed in with a tighter fit.
$30 is fairly reasonable for shop labor plus bearings (pull the cranks, the bb,
the bearings, inspect, and replace all), though my LBS does it for $20. What
do _you_ theink the job's worth? You _could_ do it yourself for the cost of
the bearings plus whatever tool (make-shift?) you might need to press/pull the
bearings ... perhaps someone with experience can describe it better than I
could.
The fault of your bb's failing has nothing to do with PW or the bearings, but
your riding and lack of maintenance. All "sealed" bearing bb's will get water
in them, wash out the grease, and rust (steel parts anyway). Those seals are
not waterproof, esp. when spindle and bearings are rolling. If you're
encountering rain alot, either rebuild or replace alot. Fact of life #200,593.
FWIW, I am starting to question the value of PW bb's. For what it cost
initially (about $100 with mounting rings?), plus those $20-30 rebuilds, I
could get by just as well with Shimano UN-52/72 bb's. No rebuilding ... just
toss them and install new. My UN-52 is going on 2 yrs. on my mtb, but I don't
ride much in the rain or mud. I have one PW bb with original bearings going on
7 years, but another needed bearings after 1.5 years. So, PW = $100 + $20-30
every couple years = $150-200 over 5-6 years. Compare that with a new UN-72
every 2 years at about $30 a pop. As an added bonus, your bike loses a bunch
of weight in the process. PW loses the contest, IMHO. BTW, I've never had
_any_ bb spindle fail, so that isn't an issue.
Yeah, sure, the PW bb is a work of art, but it's also stuck inside the bb
shell. It makes more sense to spend money on _visible_ art, if you ask me.
The only upside I see to PW bb's is chainline adjustability. Important for
people with such problems, I guess.
Robin Hubert
Overthbars
How many years / miles do you get from your Phil BB?
Frank
overt...@aol.com
Philcycles
bought one when they came out (1973?) and I'm still using it. My newest is 10
years old and I've never had a problem. I'm a framebuilder and so they get
swapped around enough to find out if they're shot.
Phil Brown
jbea...@my-dejanews.com
Phil, I've toasted a few Phil bottom brackets, usually after years of riding.
One of them, however, died in infancy (circa 1977) when the sleeve in the
center of the two-piece axle separated, allowing both crank arms to point the
same direction. Yes, I invented the cam-bicycle. Luckily, I lived "just
around the corner" from Phil's shop, walked in and got it fixed -- in time
for a gnarly race the next day with 98% climbs through the mountains,
although the ride was not "mountain biking" (technically speaking). But is
was gnarly enough to be mountain biking.
In the old days, the bottom brackets were sold with a life time warranty --
and if one really felt like pushing the issue, one could still enforce the
old warranty and demand free replacement of bearings etc (which I did once
and felt really guilty). I am usually friendlier now and pay the reasonable
charges. -- Jay Beattie
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