well that was scary: LBS didn't tighten lock ring on my new fixed gear
landotter
real upscale shop would do things like that and, er, toe in the
brakes. Fixed the latter as it was painfully obvious.
Didn't crank it before my first stop sign, so was aghast when instead
of "engine braking" I unscrewed my cog. Wasn't a hard stop, FWIW. Sure
am glad to have brakes on the dang thing though I was riding the flats
on a moustache bar so it took a second to reach them.
Same shop that "scientifically" measured me and set my saddle 4 cm too
low! Muppets, I tell ya.
Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
G.T.
"landotter" <land...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161979432.2...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Trust no one. Hell, I don't even trust myself so I sure as hell ain't going
to trust a mechanic. I do everything myself except for some frame prep and
most suspension work.
Greg
Collin O'Neill
the least the mechanic and managers should learn something from your
potential faceplant.
I love riding without an emergency brake, but this is exactly why I don't.
-Collin
BobT
news:1161979432.2...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Although I bet if we started a contest, customers versus bike shop
employees, telling stories about dumb things done by customers
versus dumb things done by the bike shop wrenches, I bet
the customers wouldn't fair very well.
BobT
Bike Shop Customer
Fred Clydesdale
"BobT" <robertle...@MoveThisCox.net> wrote:
> If you want it done right - do it yourself!
>
> Although I bet if we started a contest, customers versus bike shop
> employees, telling stories about dumb things done by customers
> versus dumb things done by the bike shop wrenches, I bet
> the customers wouldn't fair very well.
true, but that's mainly because the population of bike shops is
smaller than the population of customers. we have to do our
comparison on the basis of percentages.
Leo Lichtman
"Fred Clydesdale" wrote: true, but that's mainly because the population of
comparison on the basis of percentages.
OTOH, each bike shop mechanic prolly works on ten bikes a day. The average
customer may work on one a month, or less.
b...@mambo.ucolick.org
None of the above. You should complain to them that they
didn't tighten the cog enough. It should be on there firmly
enough that you can't break it loose by backpedaling - much
less on your first try, since I doubt you were jamming on
the pedal super hard or skip-braking. You don't need a
gorilla to put it on, just a firm hand and a chainwhip.
Also, you might want to go back in person rather than
calling - ask them to tighten it with their chainwhip.
(I'm sure you can do it yourself, but they'll get the point
better in person.)
Whether the lockring is a critical safeguard or just a safety
crutch is the subject of holy wars, which are irrelevant here.
Both sides agree that the cog should not loosen in daily use.
This is why people can ride fixed cogs on old freewheel hubs.
If the LBS is not used to fixed gears, maybe they don't
realize that the lockring is the second line of defense,
not the first (which of course doesn't excuse the lockring
not being tight).
Ben
RS
robertle...@MoveThisCox.net says...
they should get right every time. As their error caused a potentially
dangerous situation, i would write the owner of the shop a letter making
him aware of exactly what occurred. Maybe save the next poor schmuck
from doing a header or worse?
landotter
b...@mambo.ucolick.org wrote:
> [snip]
> Whether the lockring is a critical safeguard or just a safety
> crutch is the subject of holy wars, which are irrelevant here.
> Both sides agree that the cog should not loosen in daily use.
> This is why people can ride fixed cogs on old freewheel hubs.
> If the LBS is not used to fixed gears, maybe they don't
> realize that the lockring is the second line of defense,
> not the first (which of course doesn't excuse the lockring
> not being tight).
>
> Ben
Yeah, I should make the pilgrimage. Shame it's 10 miles out, as the
real three LBS's are either lame, or really nice, but with poor
inventory. I'm fully aware that a lockring is belt and suspenders, and
a place where I don't mind such thinking. If I'd found just the
lockring loose, but the cog chain whipped into submission, it wouldn't
have been as appalling. It's funny, I was starting from the house on a
mess of slippery leaves, so what I thought was wheel slip on the leaves
when pedaling, was the dang cog starting to tighten up.
I figure I also got to complain that the bike came with tires so crappy
they only sell them in Krakow for $5 (no exaggeration) and a few select
chinese cities. Spec was good urban puncture resistant IRC Tandems.
Great tire for a single rider looking for durability as well. When you
order a bike w/o there being a showroom model, you sort of expect the
specsheet to be followed.
I figure the lockring will give me leverage to get the proper tires. I
don't really care if the shop loses money on this one, and usually I'd
be sympathetic.
landotter
Thing was backordered, when I called after three weeks. Month goes by,
not a peep. You'd expect a phone call or email with this type of delay,
no? So when I called one month to the day, it's a matter of "oh it just
came in today". Ohhh, how serindipitous! Funny, when I picked it up at
a shop which I consider to have decent mechanics, it was set up like
crap. Levers in the wrong place, brakes toed in...in reverse, saddle
sloping 15 degrees down, etc. A total mess. They'd done this bogus
"body scan" sizing thing and the sales dude nervously scrambled to
adjust the saddle with some sort of measuring device when I arrived.
Was still a couple inches off, not to mention that the thing was
unridable due to the saddle angle. All this points to major fuckup...a
box sitting in the back room for a couple of weeks, me calling, and the
employee having an "oh shit" moment. Thus the loose cog and lock ring.
Smell about right?
Nate Knutson
landotter wrote:
> Another fishy thing, prefaced by the fact that I love the bike:
>
> Thing was backordered, when I called after three weeks. Month goes by,
> not a peep. You'd expect a phone call or email with this type of delay,
> no? So when I called one month to the day, it's a matter of "oh it just
> came in today". Ohhh, how serindipitous! Funny, when I picked it up at
> a shop which I consider to have decent mechanics, it was set up like
> crap. Levers in the wrong place, brakes toed in...in reverse, saddle
> sloping 15 degrees down, etc. A total mess. They'd done this bogus
> "body scan" sizing thing and the sales dude nervously scrambled to
> adjust the saddle with some sort of measuring device when I arrived.
> Was still a couple inches off, not to mention that the thing was
> unridable due to the saddle angle. All this points to major fuckup...a
> box sitting in the back room for a couple of weeks, me calling, and the
> employee having an "oh shit" moment. Thus the loose cog and lock ring.
>
> Smell about right?
One thing - I wouldn't really get after them about the brake levers.
Don't know for sure about the '07, but last year the bike came out of
the box with the levers the way you describe, seemingly because they
liked how the position it gave you while riding on the hooks had the
outer sides of your hands falling on the lever hoods. The levers were
positioned and fastened this way but the bars weren't taped. It's
stupid, but whether it's absolutely wrong for the shop to sell you the
bike this way is a pretty tenuous argument, made even challenging by
the fact that virtually no shops are at all used to dealing with
moustache bars. Since all the other issues are ones where the shop is
clearly in the wrong, it's probably stronger to leave the lever
complaint out.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Gotta wonder why he didn't tighten it..I mean, ya put the lockring on,
for a fixie or a regular rear hub, you tighten it, gotta. Was he
distracted, then forgot? I mean, nothing on the rear wheel just gets
spun on finger tight, not freewheel, not cog, not lockring.
David L. Johnson
>> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
>> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
>
> Gotta wonder why he didn't tighten it..I mean, ya put the lockring on,
> for a fixie or a regular rear hub, you tighten it, gotta. Was he
> distracted, then forgot? I mean, nothing on the rear wheel just gets
> spun on finger tight, not freewheel, not cog, not lockring.
I bet there was another cause. He didn't get the sprocket on tight to
begin with. Maybe the threads bound some, or maybe he got distracted, or
maybe he was used to freewheels where it just doesn't matter. Anyway,
then, he could have tightened the lockring all he wanted and it would be
loose the first time you rode the bike. Re-tightening the lockring after
a test ride should be standard procedure.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | What is objectionable, and what is dangerous about extremists is
_`\(,_ | not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant.
(_)/ (_) | --Robert F. Kennedy
David L. Johnson
> lockring loose, but the cog chain whipped into submission, it wouldn't
> have been as appalling. It's funny, I was starting from the house on a
> mess of slippery leaves, so what I thought was wheel slip on the leaves
> when pedaling, was the dang cog starting to tighten up.
I just suggested this as the real problem on another response. The
lockring might well have been tight, but the sprocket wasn't. Once you
tightened down the sprocket by riding a few miles, the lockring would have
to be loose.
> I figure the lockring will give me leverage to get the proper tires. I
> don't really care if the shop loses money on this one, and usually I'd
> be sympathetic.
The tires are another thing, but the lockring issue is a bit less worthy.
People used to freewheels would never bother tightening them, since one
ride and they are tighter than anyone could do with a chain whip. Of
course, with a fixed gear, you really, really need to get the sprocket
tight before you tighten down the lockring.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | Some people used to claim that, if enough monkeys sat in front
_`\(,_ | of enough typewriters and typed long enough, eventually one of
(_)/ (_) | them would reproduce the collected works of Shakespeare. The
internet has proven this not to be the case.
Mike Jacoubowsky
> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
If the point is to make sure they don't do something like that again, and
potentially save some other customers from the same thing, the best thing to
do is just mention to the shop that it might be a good idea to check the
other bikes on their floor because the "factory" didn't tighten the
lockring, causing the problem you had. Yeah, you & I know the shop should
have done that, or checked it if it was already installed, but by not saying
that directly they won't become immediately defensive and yet will know,
yeah, they did something stupid.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"landotter" <land...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1161979432.2...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
landotter
Oh, I totally don't give a shit about the levers. Easy enough to fix
myself, and that way from the factory. Not tightening the cog, having
the saddle sloping 20 degrees down, and setting up the brakes like a
monkey from Borneo--that's just idiotic. Certainly I'll complain only
where compaint makes sense.
Michael Press
<1161979432.2...@e3g2000cwe.googlegroups.com>,
"landotter" <land...@gmail.com> wrote:
You owe it to their other customers to tell the owner
what happened. Some shops require the mechanic to test
ride various categories of their work, such as a fully
built up bicycle.
--
Michael Press
landotter
Michael Press wrote:
>
> You owe it to their other customers to tell the owner
> what happened. Some shops require the mechanic to test
> ride various categories of their work, such as a fully
> built up bicycle.
They sold it to me with the wheel flipped to the freewheel side, so a
test ride would have done little good. To be honest, the slapdash
assembly of the thing probably means I was the first person since
Taiwan that pulled the rear wheel.
Last new bike I bought before this was boxed. I took an evening to
properly build it up, tweaking everything just so. Much more
satisfying than buying something assembled by a 17 y/o lackey.
I should deffo suggest that they take fixes for a spin in the lot.
That rear slipping only a single turn was enough to send me in front of
an oncoming car. Thank goodness they weren't on a cell phone or
similar--I often see cars sail through this four way w/o stopping at
30mph.
Mike Jacoubowsky
> properly build it up, tweaking everything just so. Much more
> satisfying than buying something assembled by a 17 y/o lackey.
*Your* bike may have been assembled by a "17 y/o lackey" but please don't
assume all bikes are. We, and many other shops, go to an awful lot of
trouble to try and properly assemble bicycles, spending enough time & effort
to do the job the right way, with the right tools, and having the experience
to know when something arrives from the factory in a way it shouldn't have.
We take a lot of pride in what we do.
Aside from denigrating shop mechanics in general, it's also wrong to assume
that a 17 year old isn't capable of exceptional work. After a whole lot of
years in the business, I've learned that some people have an intuitive knack
for mechanical things, and some don't. Some things can be adequately taught
to a competent but not intuitive person, but there are few things that make
me happier than finding a young person who has a way with all-things
mechanical, and helping them along.
I started my career as a 15 year old mechanic, and still find great pleasure
in working on bikes.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
"landotter" <land...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1162084504.7...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
landotter
Hey man, I call it as I see it. There are shops out there that have
gone beyond the ordinary in doing a great job. For starters in Chicago
you can't beat Rapid Transit or Urban Bikes on the north side. Here in
Nashville both the local REI and Jolly Cyclist have wrenches that I'd
trust my life to.
However, the shop I bought from, which I'm not going to name, is an
upscale shop, known for selling a lot of 2-5K road bikes--and building
them right from what I've seen. My bike was just a little $500 jobber,
and the build was so horrid as to be the equivilent of a "fuck you".
How long does it take to unbox a bike, jam down the cog and lockring.
tweak the brakes, install the front wheel, and pump the tires? Fifteen
minutes?
I know shops don't make jack shit on most new bike sales, that's why I
kindly requested that this shop didn't waste my time with a "laser
fitting" as I know sizing, my own body, and exactly what fits me. Still
they demanded to blow smoke up my ass with the snake oil, just to
conclude that I was right. Half an hour to do a song and dance when
they could have spent it at the workbench.
You're right, there are 17 year olds that can build a damn nice dialed
machine, hell, I could have at fifteen, but that was just rhetoric.
What I picked up was just a product of laziness regardless of the age
of the assembler.
Usually, I'm a bike shop's dream. I buy the bike, and if things are a
bit off, I fix them myself with my fairly good wrenching skills. I've
never brought a new bike back to the shop for tweaking in 20 years,
this is a first.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
David L. Johnson wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 06:09:07 -0700, Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
> >> Should I call and scold about the lock ring? Or take it like a man? I
> >> mean it wasn't even finger tight. Geez Louiz.
> >
> > Gotta wonder why he didn't tighten it..I mean, ya put the lockring on,
> > for a fixie or a regular rear hub, you tighten it, gotta. Was he
> > distracted, then forgot? I mean, nothing on the rear wheel just gets
> > spun on finger tight, not freewheel, not cog, not lockring.
>
> I bet there was another cause. He didn't get the sprocket on tight to
> begin with. Maybe the threads bound some, or maybe he got distracted, or
> maybe he was used to freewheels where it just doesn't matter.
Sorry, it DOES matter with a freewheel, particularly if the freewheel
is new and different from the older one on the hub. Adjust the rear der
with a not tight freewheel and furst stomp, it tightens and then the
chain gets shucked off the small cog, into the frame dropouts..
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > Last new bike I bought before this was boxed. I took an evening to
> > properly build it up, tweaking everything just so. Much more
> > satisfying than buying something assembled by a 17 y/o lackey.
>
> *Your* bike may have been assembled by a "17 y/o lackey" but please don't
> assume all bikes are. We, and many other shops, go to an awful lot of
> trouble to try and properly assemble bicycles, spending enough time & effort
> to do the job the right way, with the right tools, and having the experience
> to know when something arrives from the factory in a way it shouldn't have.
> We take a lot of pride in what we do.
Well said Mike but unfortunately, here in the republic, the 2 'big'
shops look to the lower end of the food chain to assemble bicycles, and
it really shows. Bike assembly and bike wrenching in general, at these
two places, are seen as an expense, to be minimized, so bikes outta
boxes are poorly assembled, almost all the time. If Target/Walmart,
other places, could figure out good assembly, service after the sale,
these bikes offered would be quite the nice bike, at less $.
* * Chas
Most people rarely complain about poor service or product quality, they
just shop elsewhere. A business should be made aware that there is a
problem and given the opportunity to rectify it. If they don't care then
the next step is to start badmouthing them.
Epson the printer company did a study a few years ago. They found that
satisfied customers will tell 2 others about their positive experiences
whereas a dissatisfied customer will tell an average of 17 others!
The point being, consumers need to stop being passive and speak up if we
want better service or quality products.
A note on tires, there used to be a manufacturer of cheap replacement
tires for kid's bikes out of Korea or Taiwan called Dy Yung Tire Co.
Chas.
* * Chas
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <pe...@vecchios.com> wrote in message
news:1162128128.9...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
Agree completely. We used to road tested every bike we worked on or
assembled. The loose freewheel issue happened to me several times road
testing newly assembled bikes before putting them on the showroom floor.
They came from the factory with freewheels that weren't tightened
properly. We never put toeclips on new bikes until they were sold.
Almost did a face plant both times when the rear wheel locked up and my
feet slipped off the pedals.
Chas.
Mike Jacoubowsky
> satisfied customers will tell 2 others about their positive experiences
> whereas a dissatisfied customer will tell an average of 17 others!
So it makes more sense to find a way to sabotage your competitor than to do
a good job yourself. Hmm. Never really thought of it that way, but perhaps
it points to why negative advertising continues to be the norm for politics.
People focus more on the bad than the good. Rather sad, if you think about
it.
--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"* * Chas" <verkt...@aol.spamski.com> wrote in message
news:3dmdnVVteLObn9jY...@comcast.com...
landotter
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> > Epson the printer company did a study a few years ago. They found that
> > satisfied customers will tell 2 others about their positive experiences
> > whereas a dissatisfied customer will tell an average of 17 others!
>
> So it makes more sense to find a way to sabotage your competitor than to do
> a good job yourself. Hmm. Never really thought of it that way, but perhaps
> it points to why negative advertising continues to be the norm for politics.
> People focus more on the bad than the good. Rather sad, if you think about
> it.
>
>
Do notice that I didn't mention the shop by name. Not that anybody
reads Usenet. LOL
They did drop the ball on this one pretty much every way possible, I've
seen better builds come out of Target. I want to assume it was a fluke,
as they're super nice. The cynic thinks otherwise, as they've known me
for years and I'm hard to make money from as I never have my bike
serviced, just buy tubes and bearings. Still, I'm quite capable of
recommended a place to others and often do. They've made thousands from
me indirectly, I'm sure. My recommendation will now be a shop that's
still in their 3 shop empire, but the one serving the twangy suburbs
out by the lake. They have a staff that's easily 15 years older on
average as well. Not that a kid can't do great work, but experience
matters when you're wrenching and dealing with the public.
Michael Press
<LLP1h.6312$s6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com>,
"Mike Jacoubowsky" <Mi...@ChainReaction.com> wrote:
> So it makes more sense to find a way to sabotage your competitor than to do
> a good job yourself. Hmm. Never really thought of it that way, but perhaps
> it points to why negative advertising continues to be the norm for politics.
> People focus more on the bad than the good. Rather sad, if you think about
> it.
Title of the lead article in the newspaper today is
`Desperate campaigns tesort to attack ads.' All of the
examples on the front page are from _one_ party.
--
Michael Press