Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?
Andre Jute
Let's not have a flame war here but a considered discussion, with all
the pros and cons of recumbents.
I highlight the hillclimbing question because I live on a steep hill,
and my favourite rides are all on hilly lanes; in fact, there is
nowhere I go, not even for a liter of milk that doesn't involve at
least one hill.
Andre Jute
An open mind on the loose is a dangerous device
Gennaro
> Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?
Your difficulties in finding a bike porperly suited for you
are taking you very far... :-)
I don't have any personal experience on recumbents, but
these guys have used them on the Alps and claim that
nothing can be better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoU_JmCL_k4
the whole video is definitely worth wathcing!
[...]
> Andre Jute
> An open mind on the loose is a dangerous device
bye
Gennaro, who's also been considering recumbents and
pondering about bike lights lately...
d...@boomerbicycle.ca
I have tried the fuly reclined type shown in the video, and while I
believe the position is better for maximal exertion required for
climbing, I found it to be a strain on the neck to keep my head tilted
to see forward.
I prefer the more upright position that my recumbent affords. I am
able to climb quite steep inclines, even pulling a loaded Bob trailer.
http://i15.tinypic.com/867vqps.jpg
Of course, climbing is accomplished with raw power, essentially doing
leg presses with the back braced against the seat back. The drawback
of this more upright position is that the torso is less open, and
breathing is a bit more difficult. The more excess weight one carries
about the mid section, the more pronounced this effect.
Speaking strictly for myself though, I can power up hills faster and
easier on my 'bent than on any of my uprights.
Dan Burkhart
Dan...@gmail.com
This couldn't be any less factual or much more anecdotal, but since my
experience with 'bents has been so limited, it's what I've got.
Example 1: Growing up, I lived near a famous retired NHL player and
coach. He had a ‘bent. A buddy of mine did his landscaping and he
let us borrow his canoe and launch from his back yard, so I talked to
him on occasion. He told me how much he loved the bike and how fast
it was. He also told me that he was careful to plan routes to avoid
hills, as going uphill with it was a bear.
Example 2: Earlier this year I was riding home, on a slight incline,
when a bent rider pulled out from a side street about ½ mile to 1 mile
ahead of me going the same direction. I was curious to see the bike,
so I poured a little mustard on it and got myself moving. The hill
got a bit steeper going over an overpass, and he was moving very, very
slowly. I don’t think he even knew I was behind him closing the gap.
No visible mirror, and he certainly didn’t turn around. I had closed
the gap considerably when he got to the top of the overpass, and he
may as well have grown a motor on that decline. I was in my top gear,
in the drops, spinning my legs and he was pulling away from me like I
was out of gas. I ran into a friend walking her dog about a mile down
the road, and asked if she’d seen him. She said he “flew by”, and he
was far enough ahead of me she was surprised I knew he was on the road
at all.
Bernhard Agthe
Dan...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
In general I would agree - the little experience I have with 'bents is a
one-hour-test ride on a trike. My impression going up a hill was "I want
a lower gear" - going up is slow, but no problem at all (provided you
have a low enough gear).
So, I'd say, they are slow on uphill, but (especially on trikes) this is
no problem ;-)
With my upright, I do have problems while going uphill with a load - my
lowest gear is still much too high so I have to sprint a bit and then
wait for regeneration, sprint.... 'Bents cannot be worse ;-) With a
trike, get a *low* gear and enjoy ;-)
Ciao...
Dan O
> On Nov 25, 5:19 am, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?
>
> > Let's not have a flame war here but a considered discussion, with all
> > the pros and cons of recumbents.
>
> > I highlight the hillclimbing question because I live on a steep hill,
> > and my favourite rides are all on hilly lanes; in fact, there is
> > nowhere I go, not even for a liter of milk that doesn't involve at
> > least one hill.
>
> > Andre Jute
> > An open mind on the loose is a dangerous device
>
> This couldn't be any less factual or much more anecdotal, but since my
> experience with 'bents has been so limited, it's what I've got.
>
> Example 1: Growing up, I lived near a famous retired NHL player and
> coach. He had a ‘bent. A buddy of mine did his landscaping and he
> let us borrow his canoe and launch from his back yard, so I talked to
> him on occasion. He told me how much he loved the bike and how fast
> it was. He also told me that he was careful to plan routes to avoid
> hills, as going uphill with it was a bear.
>
Sorry, I just have to ask: How does the NHL factor into any of this?
The canoe? Backyard?
Dan O
> Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?
>
Obviously there is no precise value.
> Let's not have a flame war here but a considered discussion, with all
> the pros and cons of recumbents.
>
Obviously all the pros and cons would not be covered.
> I highlight the hillclimbing question because I live on a steep hill,
> and my favourite rides are all on hilly lanes; in fact, there is
> nowhere I go, not even for a liter of milk that doesn't involve at
> least one hill.
>
Why don't you just test ride one or more of them? Maybe you should
get a cow that can walk up the hill bringing milk to where you are.
Dan...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Damn, that's my second interaction with the cops in under 24 hours.
Last night it was the environmental cops, now it's the usenet patrol.
It's a basis to attest for the guys physical condition. Most star NHL
players are in pretty good shape, and tend to stay that way. I think
a recently retired NHL star player & coach saying it's a bear to ride
uphill carries a bit more weight than some random overweight desk-
jockey saying it's difficult. A guy who made his entire living in the
NHL tells me something is physically demanding, it's going to carry a
bit more weight with me than your average joe at the bar telling me
the same.
The canoe/backyard was chatter, a basic intro to how I knew and spoke
with this guy. It was also 1 entire sentence. Do you really have
nothing better to do than question if 1 sentence was necessary to
convey a point? Weak.
cjcra...@idcomm.com
Regards,
Chris
The debate continues - all of it anecdotal. I've yet to see any posted
race times uphill of bents vs. DFs head to head. i wouldn't say bents
can't climb but I would say that they can't climb as fast. My own
personal test: I ride bents, road bikes, and MTBs and rotate around
quite a bit. Living on the Colorado Front Range, I've done some
massive climbing on Bents including the Mt. Evans Hill Climb Race
(highest paved road in CONUS - 7,000 to 14,000 feet - all up). General
observation - I'm much faster on a DF (and it's not the weight). Last
Spring I decided to do a little test. For 3 weeks I alternately rode
up Lookout Mtn (4 miles all 6-9% grade up) on a recumbent and on my
road bike. I then timed myself all out on each bike. Results: Road
bike 24:45, Recumbent 31:10. This seems pretty consistent with most
other rides I've done. Just one data point but that's been my
experience.
Bill Sornson
> On Nov 25, 11:08 am, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Nov 25, 5:55 am, "DanK...@gmail.com" <DanK...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Nov 25, 5:19 am, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?
>>
>>>> Let's not have a flame war here but a considered discussion, with
>>>> all the pros and cons of recumbents.
>>
>>>> I highlight the hillclimbing question because I live on a steep
>>>> hill, and my favourite rides are all on hilly lanes; in fact,
>>>> there is nowhere I go, not even for a liter of milk that doesn't
>>>> involve at least one hill.
>>
>>>> Andre Jute
>>>> An open mind on the loose is a dangerous device
>>
>>> This couldn't be any less factual or much more anecdotal, but since
>>> my experience with 'bents has been so limited, it's what I've got.
>>
>>> Example 1: Growing up, I lived near a famous retired NHL player and
>>> let us borrow his canoe and launch from his back yard, so I talked
>>> to him on occasion. He told me how much he loved the bike and how
>>> fast it was. He also told me that he was careful to plan routes to
>>> avoid hills, as going uphill with it was a bear.
>>
>> Sorry, I just have to ask: How does the NHL factor into any of this?
>> The canoe? Backyard?- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Damn, that's my second interaction with the cops in under 24 hours.
> Last night it was the environmental cops, now it's the usenet patrol.
LOL
> It's a basis to attest for the guys physical condition. Most star NHL
> players are in pretty good shape, and tend to stay that way. I think
> a recently retired NHL star player & coach saying it's a bear to ride
> uphill carries a bit more weight than some random overweight desk-
> jockey saying it's difficult. A guy who made his entire living in the
> NHL tells me something is physically demanding, it's going to carry a
> bit more weight with me than your average joe at the bar telling me
> the same.
Dick-o's a little slow. He can't connect an activity like professional
(hockey) ice-skating to having strong legs and general athleticism. You
show saintly patience explaining this to him.
> The canoe/backyard was chatter, a basic intro to how I knew and spoke
> with this guy. It was also 1 entire sentence. Do you really have
> nothing better to do than question if 1 sentence was necessary to
> convey a point? Weak.
Dick-o seldom contributes content. He's got petty, anonymous sniping down
to an art form, however.
HTH!
BS (buggily called)
Bill Sornson
> Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?
/Slow/ does not necessarily equal /bad/. Gearing.
Let's put it this way:
When I was a runner, I actually passed someone once. Grandmother was kind
enough to move her walker aside to allow me room to get by.
On my bike, my cyclometer often displays a negative reading on ascents.
Still, I routinely pass recumbent riders on steep and gradual (up)hills
alike.
Bill "prefers /bicycles/ to /contraptions/" S.
Just Me
They are as good as the rider who is on the bike. If you are
overweight and out of shape it doesn't matter what you ride.
On the flip side they are a blast when going downhill. Especially
with a fairing. Just my $0.02
Peter Cole
> Example 2: Earlier this year I was riding home, on a slight incline,
> when a bent rider pulled out from a side street about ½ mile to 1 mile
> ahead of me going the same direction. I was curious to see the bike,
> so I poured a little mustard on it and got myself moving. The hill
> got a bit steeper going over an overpass, and he was moving very, very
> slowly. I don’t think he even knew I was behind him closing the gap.
> No visible mirror, and he certainly didn’t turn around. I had closed
> the gap considerably when he got to the top of the overpass, and he
> may as well have grown a motor on that decline. I was in my top gear,
> in the drops, spinning my legs and he was pulling away from me like I
> was out of gas. I ran into a friend walking her dog about a mile down
> the road, and asked if she’d seen him. She said he “flew by”, and he
> was far enough ahead of me she was surprised I knew he was on the road
> at all.
I have ridden with bents many times on long rides (brevets). I recall
not being that impressed with their descending speed. It may be that my
weight/drag is just pretty good, but I don't think unfaired bents are
all that much better than uprights. Maybe you *were* out of gas after
chasing him down.
Dan...@gmail.com
I think this was semi-fared. It wasn't a full-on shell like you see
on some, but I saw what I think was some type of fairing on the
front. Anyway, out of gas or not, I was spinning like crazy legs on
my hardest gear. Not to say that I was or wasn't out of gas, but that
was as fast as I was going to get going with the gearing on that
bike. Not sure offhand what that gearing is, but it's fast enough for
me the vast majority of the time.
Tom Sherman
Indeed, a trike should have a very low "bailout" gear.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.
Tom Sherman
I easily out coast adult upright tandem teams on my lowracer.
Note that the performance variation between recumbents of differing
designs is great. Some have MORE aerodynamic drag than an upright rider
on the hoods: <http://www.mrmartinweb.com/images/bike/bikee.jpg>, while
some have less than an Obree position bike:
<http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/misc/nocom/nocom2006.jpg>.
Here is an early 1980's obsolete design that led to many of the opinions
of recumbents not being able to climb, having poor handling and poor
braking: <https://home.pacbell.net/recumbnt/hypercycle.jpg>. However,
that is like judging the usefulness of computers by a Trash 80 Model 1.
Tom Sherman
What was your climbing technique? Using an upright style is NOT optimum.
The recumbent rider needs to spin fast (ca. 100-120 rpm) AND pull on the
backstroke (foot retention is mandatory).
Tom Sherman
On the other hand, in flat to rolling terrain, especially into a
headwind, a rider on a lowracer can keep up with much stronger upright
riders. :)
Dan O
> On Nov 25, 11:08 am, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 25, 5:55 am, "DanK...@gmail.com" <DanK...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 25, 5:19 am, Andre Jute <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?
>
> > > > Let's not have a flame war here but a considered discussion, with all
> > > > the pros and cons of recumbents.
>
>
> > > This couldn't be any less factual or much more anecdotal, but since my
> > > experience with 'bents has been so limited, it's what I've got.
>
> > > Example 1: Growing up, I lived near a famous retired NHL player and
> > > coach. He had a ‘bent. A buddy of mine did his landscaping and he
> > > let us borrow his canoe and launch from his back yard, so I talked to
> > > him on occasion. He told me how much he loved the bike and how fast
> > > it was. He also told me that he was careful to plan routes to avoid
> > > hills, as going uphill with it was a bear.
>
> > Sorry, I just have to ask: How does the NHL factor into any of this?
> > The canoe? Backyard?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Damn, that's my second interaction with the cops in under 24 hours.
> Last night it was the environmental cops, now it's the usenet patrol.
>
I already said "sorry" in the first place :-)
> It's a basis to attest for the guys physical condition. Most star NHL
> players are in pretty good shape, and tend to stay that way. I think
> a recently retired NHL star player & coach saying it's a bear to ride
> uphill carries a bit more weight than some random overweight desk-
> jockey saying it's difficult. A guy who made his entire living in the
> NHL tells me something is physically demanding, it's going to carry a
> bit more weight with me than your average joe at the bar telling me
> the same.
>
Hmm... okay, I can see that (sort of). But my mental image of "famous
retired NHL player and coach" is not necessarily one of peak fitness.
(Note that "star player" and "recently retired" were not part of your
excruciatingly detailed original account.) I might, in fact,
reasonably imagine that he was past prime athleticism even before
retiring as a player and beginning a coaching career, then continued
in that much less physically demanding role for who knows how long,
before finally retiring altogether who knows how long ago. (And he
apparently has somebody else doing his yardwork.) I imagine a lot
overweight desk-jockies used to be athletes. (Some of them might even
own canoes.)
(Climbing hills can be physically demanding for anybody on any bike,
BTW. I did sort of get the original inference, though, from "... it
was a bear", that he found climbing on his 'bent *relatively*
difficult. Of course, I would derive the same inference from the same
statement by "average joe".)
> The canoe/backyard was chatter, a basic intro to how I knew and spoke
> with this guy. It was also 1 entire sentence. Do you really have
> nothing better to do than question if 1 sentence was necessary to
> convey a point? Weak.
Here was your point:
"I knew a guy who used to be a famous hockey player. He had a 'bent,
and said going uphill with it was a bear."
(How weak is that?)
... and...
"Once, while riding uphill with some mustard, I was catching up to a
'bent, but he went much faster down the hill and got away."
(That's not pretty weak?)
Again, though - sorry - no offense - please carry on. (As you can see
from my reply to Andre, I was not having a very tolerant morning :-)
Bernhard Agthe
Dan...@gmail.com wrote:
> It's a basis to attest for the guys physical condition. Most star NHL
> players are in pretty good shape, and tend to stay that way. I think
> a recently retired NHL star player & coach saying it's a bear to ride
> uphill carries a bit more weight than some random overweight desk-
[...]
Well, but then he's been working a totally different set of muscles all
his active training time. Even putting Armstrong on a 'bent for the
first time will make him find 'bents hard to ride... Even that are
different muscles... As I said, my very first impression was "relax and
spin it" - and I do out-spin almost all of my friends, anyway. Don't
worry, it's just a matter of getting used to - and that cannot be done
by any other than you alone ;-)
Ciao..
Andre Jute
> On Nov 25, 7:42 am, "Gennaro" <MC7...@MCLINK.IT.HELL> wrote:
>
>
> I am
> able to climb quite steep inclines, even pulling a loaded Bob trailer.http://i15.tinypic.com/867vqps.jpg
Us beardies gotta stand together. The problem with recumbents is that
uncharitable people will think we lie down together.
But I didn't have something quite that low in mind, more like the
German Scooterbike or a Giant, on which you sit a bit higher, with the
pedals below and much more forward than on the RANS CF type of semi-
conventional cruiser that Paul has recently bought.
Andre Jute
Open-minded
Andre Jute
wrote:
26% slower doesn't seem such a big deal, except that on the worst
incline I'm already so slow, any slower and I'd fall over from lack of
balance-inducing forward motion. The bit I like best about the advice
in this thread is the bent is likely to be very fast downhill. --
Andre Jute
Woland99
I guess with trike minimum speed to maintain balance is not
really an issue - you can gear it as low as you want.
But yeah - we are all SLOW uphill - on some hills I can go 11mph
but on the steepest one I do - 8-10% I barely crawl 3.5-4 mph.
Hmmm - that is 270W - I can sustain that only for a very short
climb - less than 1 mile or so.
Tom Sherman
This is low (and fast):
<http://www.parnes.com/hpvsblog/archives/watt/Tero1.jpg>.
Here is a good choice for comfort, ease of starting and stopping, good
low speed handling and being able to see and be seen by traffic:
<http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/spirit/index_e.html>. Not as fast
as a upright road bike, however.
Rik O'Shea
> Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?
>
> Let's not have a flame war here but a considered discussion, with all
> the pros and cons of recumbents.
>
> I highlight the hillclimbing question because I live on a steep hill,
> and my favourite rides are all on hilly lanes; in fact, there is
> nowhere I go, not even for a liter of milk that doesn't involve at
> least one hill.
>
How steep are the hills - are they the short sharp type or the long
grinders. I saw someone on a 'bent in the scottish highlands
(obviously a yank! ).
They were cycling up a long grinder, pedalling a very low gear.
Urb Anwriter
Tom Sherman <sunsetss000...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> André Jute wrote:
> > On Nov 25, 1:44 pm, d...@boomerbicycle.ca wrote:
> >> On Nov 25, 7:42 am, "Gennaro" <MC7...@MCLINK.IT.HELL> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I am
> >> able to climb quite steep inclines, even pulling a loaded Bob
> >> trailer.http://i15.tinypic.com/867vqps.jpg
> >
> > Us beardies gotta stand together. The problem with recumbents is that
> > uncharitable people will think we lie down together.
> >
> > But I didn't have something quite that low in mind, more like the
> > German Scooterbike or a Giant, on which you sit a bit higher, with the
> > pedals below and much more forward than on the RANS CF type of semi-
> > conventional cruiser that Paul has recently bought.
> >
> That is not a low bike!
>
> This is low (and fast):
> <http://www.parnes.com/hpvsblog/archives/watt/Tero1.jpg>.
>
> Here is a good choice for comfort, ease of starting and stopping, good
> low speed handling and being able to see and be seen by traffic:
> <http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/produkte/spirit/index_e.html>. Not as fast
> as a upright road bike, however.
I'm a recumbent fan - so I'll get some heat - but you'll notice that I
don't have one in my current stable. So all that to say, yes, I have
some experience with the beast. Good and bad.
No one has asked 'how good are TdF riders at climbing REALLY BIG hills?'
It's the same sort of question. And a 'test ride' is, unfortunately, not
going to tell you very much.
I'm sure most of you have several bicycles. And, I'm sure that one of
you has two bicycles that do not have absolutely identical fit (ST
relative to HT, crank length, 'Q-factor,' TT length, drop from seat to
bars, yada, yada, yada) and you will notice the difference, in your
muscles, between two bikes. That's why I rotate (oooh, bad pun)
virtually every ride.
'Bents' fit different. A one hour test ride will only reveal (and no
dis-respect to original poster) that your muscles have not acclimatized.
One guy (and, wait for it, the 'guy' has a name), Brock Davis, and I
were having a conversation one day about 15 years ago. 'How long to
acclimatize?' I asked? "Six months I guess" was his reply. And he was,
and is, a 'high-mileage,' no-car, bicycle shop owner.
I rode, in their day, Ryans, R-20s, Linears, a singular Windcheeta (sp),
a number of Rans, Easy Tour, and Easy Racer. I, meaning me, was slower
up hill on every single one of them. A couple, the Ryan (with stock bars
narrowed), and the R-20, were measurably faster downhill. The Windcheeta
wasn't mine, and I couldn't afford the goofy 17" tires, let alone the
machine, which compelled me to not try testing it's limits.
And, it occurs to me, will your jacket be completely zipped while
testing the aerodynamics of various machines in the negative-incline
phase?
The current 'fastest' bicycle (just check the definition of 'bicycle'
before you start flaming, or you'll lose, I guarantee) is a recumbent,
built in Canada, ridden by the winner of the 2008 NAHBS, on a US road,
built by, more or less, a sculptor. I don't think Sam would claim that
it's a bike faster up hills...
My apologies if I posted above, or below, the right person, the wrong
person, or if your mileage varies, your opinion differs, or you have
never actually ridden a recumbent.
andre...@aol.com
> Precisely how bad is a recumbent at climbing hills?
>
> Let's not have a flame war here but a considered discussion, with all
> the pros and cons of recumbents.
>
> I highlight the hillclimbing question because I live on a steep hill,
> and my favourite rides are all on hilly lanes; in fact, there is
> nowhere I go, not even for a liter of milk that doesn't involve at
> least one hill.
>
> An open mind on the loose is a dangerous device
Dear namesake:
I think that they dropped a consonant when they named you.
bicycles, either bents or uprights are great for transportation, as
you already know. Going up a steep hill in either requires good form
and appropriate gears. With a recumbent, you can get up pretty much
any hill provided that you have the appropriate gear. As with an
upright, depending on your effort, and the gear of choice you can get
up faster or slower and be more or less tired. With equal fitness you
will probably climb faster with an upright and move faster on flat
ground with a bent.
Having addressed the technical aspects I must point out that the only
problem with bents is that they out you as a queer, violator of
normality, subversive, anti-establishment, far left wing trotskist,
anarchist, devil worshiper such as the well know TS.
Stick to the upright. However considering that you already posses a
queer name, the bent may not be a bad idea.
Andres
Andre Jute
I have a mix of hills, but know them well so that all my rides are one-
way circular routes, the easy way with the long but not too steep
slopes on the outward journey, and the steep hills on the downsides.
There is only one place where on an upright I have to get off and
push, and this years, towards the end of a summer in which I rode much
more than previously, I've managed riding up even that hill without
killing myself.
However, this whole bent possibility arose because I moved house from
the flat beside the river to almost the top of a steep hill. I'm
getting Rohloff gears, which will give me two-and-a-half to three
gears below my current Cyber Nexus ratios. I need two of those gears
for the hill, so to speak, so I reckoned that a bent, which if
sensibly designed to be practical (some are a joke) could have some
advantages to way of using a bike, could be up to say 13 per cent less
efficient uphill, and I would still be ahead of the game. But, as we
heard yesterday from the chap who was 26% slower uphill on a bent, the
bent would probably require two out of the three of my "new, lower
gears", so I'll very likely not buy it as I have too many bikes
already, and buying two bikes the price of a used BMW each would be
pretty hard to justify for a fellow who cycles 3000 klicks and change
every year -- about 2000 miles.
Andre Jute
Calvinist
Andre Jute
> In article <ggkseb$92...@news.motzarella.org>,
Just ignore the kibbitzers. Fifty years they've nursed the grudge
about the midwife slapping them too hard to stop them breathing, then
the internet enabled them to whine in a million ears rather than
boring their sports bar.
I for one am happy to hear your experiences. I don't think this bent
is going to happen. I'm pretty slow uphill already, I'm not a spinner
and brute force only goes so far, and if I go any slower the police
will start charging me with being an obstruction. Still, I like a bit
of downhill speeding, and like the possibility of getting a bit more
adrenaline out of recumbent. On the other hand, from an upright bike I
can make eye-contact with the drivers of big four-wheel drives -- in
fact, I have to lean over to see into the window to explain to the
stupid ones that, "It will take me five minutes to trash your 160K
Range Rover into an insurance writeoff, after which I shall charge you
with assault with a deadly weapon, and make you uninsurable, besides
ruining your so-called career with negative publicity that will turn
you into public idiot number one." You'd look ridiculous doing that
from a bent; nobody'd believe you anyhow, whereas they have no problem
believing the guy on the biggest bike they've ever seen will trash
their precious motor if they come too near him ever again.
Andre Jute
Krowbar Kid
Andre Jute
I'll have you know that I was the last man in my town whose dinner
jacket actually buttoned.
Andre Jute
with an acute accent on the e in Andre
Andre Jute
> Andre Jute wrote:
> > But I didn't have something quite that low in mind,
>
For racers, perhaps. For other cyclists, there are other equally
attractive advantages to the less recumbent bent. I can think,
instantly, of the ability to mount it more easily than an upright
bike, of being able to put your foot on the ground without getting out
of the seat, of retaining a little dignity in your posture, of being
able to wear wide shorts without exposing yourself. -- Andre Jute
A Muzi
It's ALT-130, André
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
andre...@aol.com
My name which is in Spanish is spelled Andrés. After living in the US
23 years, I have been spelling it without the accent. When I write in
Spanish I put all the accents everywhere, but always forget to put the
accent in the e.
Andre Jute
I've used a Mac from the beginning; one of my first Macs was signed
"Steve" inside the case. On a Mac you just press alt-e and then e to
get é but the reason I don't do it on the net is that not everyone
honours the standards the same way as the Mac programmers do,
conscious as they are that they're working on the typographer's
preferred computer. -- Andre Jute
slide
seems to share some attributes of both.
It's high enough for me to make eye contact. It seems faster downhill
than an conventional but there are too many factors to be sure. As to
uphill, I too am a masher but on this I've learned to spin a bit. So far
the uphills seem slower but also easier. That is, I can't seem to mash
as much which results in slower progress doing more spin but also I'm
less tired at the apex of the hill.
Tom Sherman
> [...]
> 'Bents' fit different. A one hour test ride will only reveal (and no
> dis-respect to original poster) that your muscles have not acclimatized.
> One guy (and, wait for it, the 'guy' has a name), Brock Davis, and I
> were having a conversation one day about 15 years ago. 'How long to
> acclimatize?' I asked? "Six months I guess" was his reply. And he was,
> and is, a 'high-mileage,' no-car, bicycle shop owner.
>
> I rode, in their day, Ryans, R-20s, Linears, a singular Windcheeta (sp),
> a number of Rans, Easy Tour, and Easy Racer. I, meaning me, was slower
> up hill on every single one of them. A couple, the Ryan (with stock bars
> narrowed), and the R-20, were measurably faster downhill. The Windcheeta
> wasn't mine, and I couldn't afford the goofy 17" tires, let alone the
> machine, which compelled me to not try testing it's limits.
>
What is a "Rans"?
ATP Vision R-20?
> And, it occurs to me, will your jacket be completely zipped while
> testing the aerodynamics of various machines in the negative-incline
> phase?
>
> The current 'fastest' bicycle (just check the definition of 'bicycle'
> before you start flaming, or you'll lose, I guarantee) is a recumbent,
> built in Canada, ridden by the winner of the 2008 NAHBS, on a US road,
> built by, more or less, a sculptor. I don't think Sam would claim that
> it's a bike faster up hills...
>
> My apologies if I posted above, or below, the right person, the wrong
> person, or if your mileage varies, your opinion differs, or you have
> never actually ridden a recumbent.
Never apologize on Usenet! ;)
Some of the most prominent recumbent "experts" have never ridden a
recumbent. :(
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
1999 RANS Wave to Tailwind conversion
2000 RANS Rocket
Tom Sherman
> [...] On the other hand, from an upright bike I
> can make eye-contact with the drivers of big four-wheel drives -- in
> fact, I have to lean over to see into the window to explain to the
> stupid ones that, "It will take me five minutes to trash your 160K
> Range Rover into an insurance writeoff, after which I shall charge you
> with assault with a deadly weapon, and make you uninsurable, besides
> ruining your so-called career with negative publicity that will turn
Thankfully, Mr. Jute has let us know he is a "hardass", in case we ever
encounter him in real life.
Tom Sherman
> [....]
> Well, my CF Rans isn't a recumbent nor a fully conventional bike so it
What is a "Rans" (sic)?
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
Tom Sherman
> Andre Jute wrote:
>> [...]
>> I'll have you know that I was the last man in my town whose dinner
>> jacket actually buttoned.
>>
>> Andre Jute
>> with an acute accent on the e in Andre
>
> It's ALT-130, André
>
For gene, his name would be AndrALT0233 ;)
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
Tom Sherman
> [...]
> My name which is in Spanish is spelled Andrés. After living in the US
> 23 years, I have been spelling it without the accent. When I write in
> Spanish I put all the accents everywhere, but always forget to put the
> accent in the e.
And we thought your correct name was "andre...@aol.com". ;)
slide
> slide wrote:
>> [....]
>> Well, my CF Rans isn't a recumbent nor a fully conventional bike so it
>> seems to share some attributes of both.[...]
>
> What is a "Rans" (sic)?
>
andre...@aol.com
wrote:
> andresm...@aol.com aka Andrés Muro wrote:
>
> > [...]
> > My name which is in Spanish is spelled Andrés. After living in the US
> > 23 years, I have been spelling it without the accent. When I write in
> > Spanish I put all the accents everywhere, but always forget to put the
> > accent in the e.
>
>
> --
> Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
> If you are not a part of the solution, you are a part of the precipitate.
yeah, I need to keep people guessing. its sort of an intelligence
test.
first name: andr
last name esmuro
or, first name: andresm
last name: uro
Tom Sherman
Not something I would want to be riding, then! ;)
Michael Press
Tom Sherman <sunsetss000...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Andrew Muzi wrote:
> > Andre Jute wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> I'll have you know that I was the last man in my town whose dinner
> >> jacket actually buttoned.
> >>
> >> Andre Jute
> >> with an acute accent on the e in Andre
> >
> > It's ALT-130, André
> >
> Or ALT0233 for "é".
>
> For gene, his name would be AndrALT0233 ;)
As Andre Jute implied, ALT0233 is restricted to
particular machines.
Who is Carl Friedrich Gauß?
When I want full function page lay out
I write LaTeX markup in seven bit ASCII source files.
--
Michael Press
DougC
>
> Isn't being low (and aerodynamic) the whole point of a recumbent bike?
Recumbents' main advantage is riding comfort.
For the same pedaling effort, some recumbents are generally agreed to be
faster than an upright road bike, but I'd guess that most recumbents are
slower. People still buy them for the comfort gains.
The fastest recumbents (on level ground) are the ones most-aero, and
they are most-reclined... however I suspect that there are blood
circulation issues that arise when the legs are elevated near or above
the level of the heart. It is the most-reclined recumbents that are said
to suffer the worst up hills,,, and we note that the problem of "numb
feet" also seems to be a much-more-common issue with recumbent riders
than upright bike riders, and more common with more-reclined recumbents
than with more-upright-seated recumbents.
-----
My own recumbent sits quite upright and is not particularly difficult up
hills, but then it is also not particularly fast on flat ground. It is
more like an RV than a race car.
I suspect I'd be faster on an upright.
I would not be as /comfortable/ on an upright, however.
And as it stands I'm no longer equipped to ride an upright; I threw out
my last pair of padded shorts and padded gloves quite some time ago, as
with the recumbent I no longer needed them.
When I had uprights I was riding 60-90 minutes over a regular circuit,
as fast as I reasonably could. When I got the first recumbent, I
switched to taking 2-3 hour wandering rides over every road there was.
The sore ass, numb hands and sore neck I got on 3-hour rides on the
upright bike didn't happen, and still don't.
On the recumbent, the question of how long to ride changed from "how
long do I want to sit on the bike?" to "how much time to I have to waste
today?", or alternately, "how much sunscreen did I bring?".
-----
It might be possible to combine the upright-seated recumbent with
aerodynamic aids (of the front fairing and body-sock kind) to combine
the best of both qualities, if you're willing to spend even more money
to look even dorkier than a plain recumbent rider.
~
Tom Sherman
> [...]
> It might be possible to combine the upright-seated recumbent with
> aerodynamic aids (of the front fairing and body-sock kind) to combine
> the best of both qualities, if you're willing to spend even more money
> to look even dorkier than a plain recumbent rider.
> ~
Yeah, bodysocks are dorky:
<http://www.ransbikes.com/Gallery/Archive/images/Sherman1.jpg>.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll