Cassette VS freewheels
Wayne T
The above web site is from Rivendell. Initially they are talking about Phil
Wood Freewheel hubs, but beginning on the 3rd paragraph it asks Why
Freewheel? Though they admit that they have given up on obtaining 5 and 6
speed freewheels, they still can get Sun Race for 7 speeds.
They like freewheels because 7 cogs are enough. The chain is stronger.
They have heard a lot of stories about 9 & 10 speed chains breaking.
(Anyone have that experience?). You nee a special chain tool to break the
chain. You can build stronger wheels with a freewheel as opposed to a
cassette wheel which is more susceptible to failure. Freewheel hub is much
cheaper than a cassette hub. Phil Wood cassette hubs are very expensive.
Cassette hubs have the pawls, springs, and other parts that eventually wear
out. When the freewheeling mechanism in a freewheel wears out, you just
replace the freewheel ($20). When the freewheeling mechanism wears out in a
cassette hub (rare in a Phil Wood) you have to replace the hub (or if it's a
Phil you can get it serviced)
Needless to say that is distressing. Sound like cassette, though it does
give more gears, is a step down. Makes me think it would be better to get a
bunch of Sun Race freewheels. Incidentally, do these freewheels fit the old
125mm spacing? Also, are they decent freewheels? Sure would save a lot of
expensive getting new hubs, shifters, cranks and cassette.
Comments?
marten gerritsen
> http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/wheels/18033.html
>
> The above web site is from Rivendell. Initially they are talking about Phil
> Wood Freewheel hubs, but beginning on the 3rd paragraph it asks Why
> Freewheel? Though they admit that they have given up on obtaining 5 and 6
> speed freewheels, they still can get Sun Race for 7 speeds.
>
> They like freewheels because 7 cogs are enough. The chain is stronger.
> They have heard a lot of stories about 9 & 10 speed chains breaking.
Nobody goes touring with 10-speed, and there is very little difference in 7-8 or
9 speed chains. All have to be assembled with care, and no chain likes it to be
shifted under extreme loads. Sram chains are better in this respect as Shimano
> (Anyone have that experience?). You nee a special chain tool to break the
> chain.
???so what, a small park works fine
> You can build stronger wheels with a freewheel as opposed to a
> cassette wheel which is more susceptible to failure.
the large cog on a cassette is usually closer to the flange than with a
freewheel, which makes a stronger wheel if you rn the same number of gears.
> Freewheel hub is much
> cheaper than a cassette hub. Phil Wood cassette hubs are very expensive.
> Cassette hubs have the pawls, springs, and other parts that eventually wear
> out. When the freewheeling mechanism in a freewheel wears out, you just
> replace the freewheel ($20). When the freewheeling mechanism wears out in a
> cassette hub (rare in a Phil Wood) you have to replace the hub (or if it's a
> Phil you can get it serviced)
a new freehub for a shimano doesn't cost the earth and is easily fitted. And
with a cassette there is no need to invest in a hub with an extra strong axle. A
simple cassette hub works fine.
> Needless to say that is distressing. Sound like cassette, though it does
> give more gears, is a step down. Makes me think it would be better to get a
> bunch of Sun Race freewheels. Incidentally, do these freewheels fit the old
> 125mm spacing? Also, are they decent freewheels? Sure would save a lot of
> expensive getting new hubs, shifters, cranks and cassette.
> Comments?
removing the cassette on the road or in the shop is also much easier than trying
to get that bl@#$% freewheel unstuck.
/Marten
Mike S.
"Wayne T" <wdu...@ucwphilly.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ihs5a.34131$9i7.1...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
chain spontaneously. Usually there was some other factor involved (like
sticks). The chain argument is bunk.
Cassettes support the axle better because the bearings are outboard on the
drive side. A FW hub's drive-side bearings are inboard where the flange is,
leaving several cm of axle sticking out. While I've never bent an axle, I
also haven't been out doing any loaded tours.
Any more, you're going to find that 99% of the shops out there are going to
stock cassettes/equipment. Unless you happen on a retro-grouch shop, most
of the employees won't know what to do with a FW. Or maybe you'll get one
that is going to have a field day unloading all their old stuff on you!
If you already own all the stuff for FW hubs, upgrading to 8s or 9s is going
to be an undertaking. If you are building a new bike from scratch, now is
the perfect time to join the late 90s... Quality 8s components are getting
harder and harder to find as Campy and Shimano have both gone 9s and 10s.
Swap meets like the one on the 29th at the San Diego velodrome are probably
your best bet for finding older cassette parts.
Mike "just go with the flow" Shaw
(like that Sheldon?)
Wayne T
7 speeds, but recommended that I check the loosescrews.com web site. They
had 14-34 Shimano HG 6 speeds for $21. Also, you can get them custom built
Shimano Uniglide 6 speeds for around $45.
Hmm, you don't suppose that I would be making a mistake converting to
cassette instead of ordering a bunch of the freewheels? Certainly would be
a lot cheaper.
Comments pleeeease.
"Wayne T" <wdu...@ucwphilly.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ihs5a.34131$9i7.1...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
Wayne T
"marten gerritsen" <in...@m-gineering.nl> wrote in message
news:3E5654A9...@m-gineering.nl...
> Wayne T wrote:
>
> > http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/webalog/wheels/18033.html
> >
> > The above web site is from Rivendell. Initially they are talking about
Phil
> > Wood Freewheel hubs, but beginning on the 3rd paragraph it asks Why
> > Freewheel? Though they admit that they have given up on obtaining 5 and
6
> > speed freewheels, they still can get Sun Race for 7 speeds.
> >
> > They like freewheels because 7 cogs are enough. The chain is stronger.
> > They have heard a lot of stories about 9 & 10 speed chains breaking.
>
> Nobody goes touring with 10-speed, and there is very little difference in
7-8 or
> 9 speed chains. All have to be assembled with care, and no chain likes it
to be
> shifted under extreme loads. Sram chains are better in this respect as
Shimano
Then, you make a good point because when I have gone out to buy a chain for
my current bike, they sell me an 8 speed. However, isn't a 9 speed narrower
and maybe less sturdy?
>
> > (Anyone have that experience?). You nee a special chain tool to break
the
>
> > chain.
>
> ???so what, a small park works fine
OK, that doesn't seem like any problem at all.
>
>
> > You can build stronger wheels with a freewheel as opposed to a
> > cassette wheel which is more susceptible to failure.
>
> the large cog on a cassette is usually closer to the flange than with a
> freewheel, which makes a stronger wheel if you rn the same number of
gears.
My free wheel is 6 and the cassette I would go to is 9. Would that mean a
weaker wheel?
>
>
> > Freewheel hub is much
> > cheaper than a cassette hub. Phil Wood cassette hubs are very
expensive.
> > Cassette hubs have the pawls, springs, and other parts that eventually
wear
> > out. When the freewheeling mechanism in a freewheel wears out, you just
> > replace the freewheel ($20). When the freewheeling mechanism wears out
in a
> > cassette hub (rare in a Phil Wood) you have to replace the hub (or if
it's a
> > Phil you can get it serviced)
>
> a new freehub for a shimano doesn't cost the earth and is easily fitted.
And
> with a cassette there is no need to invest in a hub with an extra strong
axle. A
> simple cassette hub works fine.
So not the problem Rivendell is making it out to be? Except if you want to
go to a Phil Wood cassette hub, then instead of 113, it would cost around
300. Groan!
>
> > Needless to say that is distressing. Sound like cassette, though it
does
> > give more gears, is a step down. Makes me think it would be better to
get a
> > bunch of Sun Race freewheels. Incidentally, do these freewheels fit the
old
> > 125mm spacing? Also, are they decent freewheels? Sure would save a lot
of
> > expensive getting new hubs, shifters, cranks and cassette.
> > Comments?
>
> removing the cassette on the road or in the shop is also much easier than
trying
> to get that bl@#$% freewheel unstuck.
Tell me about it. I have cursed out many a freewheel I've tried to loosen
with an adjustable wrench since I don't have a bench with a vice.
Sigh! Might be expensive, but I may just have to give in and convert over
to a cassette.
> /Marten
>
>
>
>
Wayne T
"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:0ct5a.11422$Ua.8...@news2.west.cox.net...
Yeah, you are confirming what I been thinking all along. I'm fighting a
losing battle. Might as well give in and convert.
>
> If you already own all the stuff for FW hubs, upgrading to 8s or 9s is
going
> to be an undertaking. If you are building a new bike from scratch, now is
> the perfect time to join the late 90s... Quality 8s components are
getting
> harder and harder to find as Campy and Shimano have both gone 9s and 10s.
Hold everything. Maybe I would be better off sticking to freewheels as long
as I can. If 8s components are getting harder and harder find, how long
before the samething happens to 9s components? They may soon be obsoleted
by 10s or something else new. Then I will be back where I started with with
the freewheels.
Drew Eckhardt
Wayne T <wdu...@ucwphilly.rr.com> wrote:
>When the freewheeling mechanism wears out in a
>cassette hub (rare in a Phil Wood) you have to replace the hub (or if it's a
>Phil you can get it serviced)
Complete Campagnolo freehub assemblies are readily available, and Campy
small part availability is good too.
--
<a href="http://www.poohsticks.org/drew/">Home Page</a>
The Congress shall assemble at least once in every Year, and such Meeting
shall be on the first Monday in December, unless they shall by Law appoint a
different Day.
pixelbrainz
> snipped<
> Tell me about it. I have cursed out many a freewheel I've tried to loosen
> with an adjustable wrench since I don't have a bench with a vice.
>
> Sigh! Might be expensive, but I may just have to give in and convert over
> to a cassette.
> > /Marten
The best thing I ever found for getting a freewheel off without a vise is
one of those things that looks like a big aluminum tooth, I think it might
be called a pocket vise. About $10 bucks or so. Good thing to have on a
tour; doesn't weigh much and works on any guardrail.
L8tr
PB
Jon Isaacs
>as I can.
>If 8s components are getting harder and harder find, how long
>before the samething happens to 9s components? They may soon be obsoleted
>by 10s or something else new. Then I will be back where I started with with
>the freewheels.
Shimano Freehubs are readily available in 7 speed and 8-9 speed. Realize
Shimano is still make zillions of 7 speed cassette bikes and of course 8-9
speed freehubs are the same.
But regardless of what Rivendell says, Freehub style hubs are stronger than
freewheel designs because the length of the unsupported axle in the freehub is
much less. Phil Woods hubs seem to be an exception to this but they are
expensive and have no advantage over the cassette design.
Cassettes are also nice because you can custom tailor them, choosing the cogs
you want. I recently built a 17-11 8 speed straight block for my TT bike. Try
to do that with a freewheel. Of course this is really an advantage when using
7 speed equipment because it makes it easier to optimize you choice of cogs.
I am not one to jump on every new bandwagon, I try to evaluate changes in the
technology from an objective point of view. I have both cassette and freewheel
hubs and I have plenty of cogs for both. Cassette hubs are a definite step up
from freewheel hubs.
Jon Isaacs
A Muzi
>
> > Tell me about it. I have cursed out many a freewheel I've tried to
loosen
> > with an adjustable wrench since I don't have a bench with a vice.
> >
> > Sigh! Might be expensive, but I may just have to give in and convert
over
> > to a cassette.
> > > /Marten
"pixelbrainz" <pixelbra...@att.net> wrote in message
news:j2w5a.44985$rq4.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> The best thing I ever found for getting a freewheel off without a vise is
> one of those things that looks like a big aluminum tooth, I think it might
> be called a pocket vise. About $10 bucks or so. Good thing to have on a
> tour; doesn't weigh much and works on any guardrail.
That's the Pocket Pro freewheel tool holder, patented by my very good friend
Angel Rodriguez. No longer in production.
--
Andrew Muzi
http://www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April 1971
Wayne T
"pixelbrainz" <pixelbra...@att.net> wrote in message
news:j2w5a.44985$rq4.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>
> > Tell me about it. I have cursed out many a freewheel I've tried to
loosen
> > with an adjustable wrench since I don't have a bench with a vice.
> >
> > Sigh! Might be expensive, but I may just have to give in and convert
over
> > to a cassette.
> > > /Marten
>
> The best thing I ever found for getting a freewheel off without a vise is
> one of those things that looks like a big aluminum tooth, I think it might
> be called a pocket vise.
Not sure what it is, but I will try to find one. Thanks.
Wayne T
"Jon Isaacs" <joni...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030221170010...@mb-fc.aol.com...
Ok, thanks. Have you experienced any failures with the freehubs where you
had to replace the entire hub, or is that also false info?
>
> Jon Isaacs
Qui si parla Campagnolo
speed freewheels, they still can get Sun Race for 7 speeds.
5 and 6s freewheels are not hard to find-
<< The chain is stronger.
They have heard a lot of stories about 9 & 10 speed chains breaking
Maybe they shouldn't believe everything they 'hear' and either ask bike shops
and people that actually deal with this stuff or see for themselves..9 and 10s
chains don't 'break' unless they were installed incorrectly.
<< You nee a special chain tool to break the
chain.
Nope, any chaintool can 'break' a 9 or 10s chain.
<< You can build stronger wheels with a freewheel as opposed to a
cassette wheel which is more susceptible to failure.
Horseshit-altho i agree that 120/6mm wheels are stronger than 130mm casette
ones, any decent wheelbuilder can build a reliable 8/9/10s wheel...We have been
doing it for over a decade. 130mm casette wheels are NOT 'susceptible to
failure', what crappola.
<< Freewheel hub is much
cheaper than a cassette hub ..
Cheaper sometimes, sometimes not-a Phill freewheel hub with a NOS DA freewheel
is a lot more than say a Campagnolo or shimano hub and casette.
<< When the freewheeling mechanism in a freewheel wears out, you just
replace the freewheel ($20)
And expect this to happen a lot with a 20 buck freewheel...
<< When the freewheeling mechanism wears out in a
cassette hub (rare in a Phil Wood) you have to replace the hub (or if it's a
Phil you can get it serviced)
ALL cassette hubs I know of have servicable and replaceable freehub
bodies..where do they get this stuff???
<< Sure would save a lot of
expensive getting new hubs, shifters, cranks and cassette.
Comments?
You can use many casette hubs with older components, just see a bike shop that
understands this stuf...seemingly not Rivendell...
Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
Qui si parla Campagnolo
my current bike, they sell me an 8 speed. However, isn't a 9 speed narrower
and maybe less sturdy?
perhaps but that doesn't mean the 9s one is NOT dependable, sturdy,
relaible...they are when used properly.
<< My free wheel is 6 and the cassette I would go to is 9. Would that mean a
weaker wheel?
Perhaps but that doesn't mean the 9s wheel is WEAK...a well built wheel is a
well bult wheel. 130mm spacing and casettes have been aroiund for wha....15
years?......they work just fine.
<< So not the problem Rivendell is making it out to be? Except if you want to
go to a Phil Wood cassette hub, then instead of 113, it would cost around
300. Groan!
As has been hashed about for about two weeks now..there are a lot of great
casette hubs out there for a small fraction of Phil...like XT and ultegra, for
touring...the build is lightyears more important..
Qui si parla Campagnolo
as long
as I can. If 8s components are getting harder and harder find, how long
before the samething happens to 9s components?
It has been over a decade since things went from freewheel to casettes and
freewheels are stull available. Even if evrything goes to 'light drive', there
will be 8/9 and 10s stuff around for a lot of years...worry about 9s stuff in
2013...
Jon Isaacs
>had to replace the entire hub, or is that also false info?
My experience as 230 lb masher, thrasher has been that I have had to replace a
few freehub assemblies but I have never had a problem with other failures.
Of course, there are plenty of things like bearings and hub flanges that can
fail on both a free hub or a freewheel hub, but I have not had them happen to
cassette hubs. I have bent axles on more than a few freewheel rear hubs in my
day, 5 and 6 speeders too, that is why I stick to cassette hubs except in
situations where they are inappropriate for vintage reasons.
I think Rivendell has some good thoughts, but they are unlikely to embrace new
technology when it is clearly superior.
Myself, I try to question both new and old technology and achieve a balance
that provides functional, reliable and enjoyable bikes. I see no need to go to
9 speed or 10 speed because I see no need for skinny chains that cost real
money and I am confident I can choose my cogs with sufficient skill that an
additional cog would not be an advantage. 7 and 8 speed index shifting is more
than enough. I also like dual pivot brakes but think that the switch to short
reach brakes is stupid, stupid, stupid. They just limit tire choices without
any real advantage to the vast majority of riders.
Cassette Hubs: A real improvement.
jon isaacs
Wayne T
> >Ok, thanks. Have you experienced any failures with the freehubs where
you
> >had to replace the entire hub, or is that also false info?
>
> My experience as 230 lb masher, thrasher has been that I have had to
replace a
> few freehub assemblies but I have never had a problem with other failures.
What exactly does replacing a freehub assembly involve? I take it that you
don't have to replace the whole hub. Is that correct? If so, how much do
hub assemblies cost?
>
> Of course, there are plenty of things like bearings and hub flanges that
can
> fail on both a free hub or a freewheel hub, but I have not had them happen
to
> cassette hubs. I have bent axles on more than a few freewheel rear hubs
in my
> day, 5 and 6 speeders too, that is why I stick to cassette hubs except in
> situations where they are inappropriate for vintage reasons.
>
> I think Rivendell has some good thoughts, but they are unlikely to embrace
new
> technology when it is clearly superior.
>
> Myself, I try to question both new and old technology and achieve a
balance
> that provides functional, reliable and enjoyable bikes. I see no need to
go to
> 9 speed or 10 speed because I see no need for skinny chains that cost real
> money and I am confident I can choose my cogs with sufficient skill that
an
> additional cog would not be an advantage. 7 and 8 speed index shifting is
more
> than enough.
I take it that you are not concerned that 8 speed cassettes are going to end
up being scarce because manufacturers are going to stop making them like
freewheels.
Sheldon Brown
> What exactly does replacing a freehub assembly involve? I take it that you
> don't have to replace the whole hub. Is that correct?
Yes. My article on Shimano Cassette Hubs explains this in detail.
See: http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
> If so, how much do hub assemblies cost?
Not much. See my commercial Shimano Cassette page:
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/k7.html
Sheldon "Kah-Sept" Brown
+------------------------------------------------------+
| What signifies knowing the names if you know not |
| the natures of things? -- Benjamin Franklin |
+------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
Wayne T
your previous 2 messages.
I am resigned to convert over to cassette. Just hope 9 speed doesn't go
obsolete in only 10 years in 2013. That isn't all that long a time period.
But if things go as they have with freewheels, then 9 speed cassettes should
still be available a decade afterwards.
I take it that you do not feel that a 9 speed chain would be a problem under
situations of heavy touring.
Your point of a 20 dollar freewheel being doubtful of a long life seems to
make sense. However, the Shimano HG 6 speeds are selling at
loosescrews.com for $21. The most important point though, is that all
cassette hubs have serviceable and replaceable freehubs. How much would one
cost for a Ultegra or DA and is it something I can do or would I have to get
a bike store to do it? BTW, how often do freehubs fail? Any more
frequently than freewheels?
You said that I can use cassette hubs with older components. However, I
understand that you can't use it with an existing freewheel hub and I get
the impression that a 9 speed can't be used with older crank sets because
they have wider spacing and I assume that the chain could get stuck between
this spacing. Further, I understand that I would have to replace my current
barend shifters, although they are fairly cheap.
You said that there are a lot of great cassette hubs out there besides Phil
Wood. I take it that you don't buy some of the comments that they don't
hold up as well as the Phil's and that they are not as smooth. Also, do you
agree with the comment that the Ultegra races are a coarse machine tool
finish. Also, you stated that they tend not to be lubed or adjusted
properly. Perhaps it would be better to go to the DA's?
"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <vecc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030222090838...@mb-df.aol.com...
Jon Isaacs
>What exactly does replacing a freehub assembly involve? I take it that you
>don't have to replace the whole hub. Is that correct? If so, how much do
>hub assemblies cost?
I really don't know what they cost, I never have bought one, I hear its in the
$20 range. Changing em isn't hard though it does involve pulling the axle. If
you do get cassette style hubs, make sure they are not pre-9 speed DA. They
are different breed and the freehubs are expensive and rare for them.
jon isaacs
Bluto
> I called Rivendell about freewheels. They didn't have any but the Sunrace
> 7 speeds, but recommended that I check the loosescrews.com web site. They
> had 14-34 Shimano HG 6 speeds for $21. Also, you can get them custom built
> Shimano Uniglide 6 speeds for around $45.
>
> Hmm, you don't suppose that I would be making a mistake converting to
> cassette instead of ordering a bunch of the freewheels? Certainly would be
> a lot cheaper.
The best freewheel ever made, the Shimano 11-34 7-speed, costs me
about $20 from my LBS. It's available into the foreseeable future so
there's no need to stock up.
Sheldon Brown has a good page on this particular freewheel. I don't
agree with him that cassette hubs are categorically better than
freewheel hubs, but I do agree with him on the superiority of the
Shimano Mega 7 freewheel:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/mega7/
Chalo Colina
Wayne T
"Bluto" <chump...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8b4b7de4.03022...@posting.google.com...
> "Wayne T" <wdu...@ucwphilly.rr.com> wrote:
>
> > I called Rivendell about freewheels. They didn't have any but the
Sunrace
> > 7 speeds, but recommended that I check the loosescrews.com web site.
They
> > had 14-34 Shimano HG 6 speeds for $21. Also, you can get them custom
built
> > Shimano Uniglide 6 speeds for around $45.
> >
> > Hmm, you don't suppose that I would be making a mistake converting to
> > cassette instead of ordering a bunch of the freewheels? Certainly would
be
> > a lot cheaper.
>
> The best freewheel ever made, the Shimano 11-34 7-speed, costs me
> about $20 from my LBS. It's available into the foreseeable future so
> there's no need to stock up.
Thanks. Certainly worth looking into, though I don't recall ever seeing
one. Does it work with 125mm spacing?
Ryan Cousineau
joni...@aol.com (Jon Isaacs) wrote:
I know exactly what changing a freehub is like, since I just did one.
To change a freehub, you have to pull the axle and stick a 10 mm Allen
(hex) wrench into the middle of the freehub, where the axle was until
just a few moments ago. turn the wrench counterclockwise until you
unscrew the hollow "bolt" you are turning. The freehub is now free for
removal, and you can pull it away cleanly from the hub.
Note that with a typical cup-and-cone bearing set, you're almost sure to
have the axle's ball bearings dropping out like mad during this process.
be sure to anticipate this.
The hardest part of the job is probably finding a 10 mm hex wrench. Mine
is a Craftsman socket from Sears. By bike tool standards, it's really
cheap, and it works great.
--
Ryan Cousineau, rcou...@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
Brian Huntley
>
> The best freewheel ever made, the Shimano 11-34 7-speed, costs me
> about $20 from my LBS. It's available into the foreseeable future so
> there's no need to stock up.
>
I notice on Sheldon Brown's site that this is designed for 126 mm
spacing - the same as six speed freewheels. Can I just subsitute one of
these onto my older bike (friction shifting) presuming the derailer can
take up enough chain?
Bluto
(me):
> > The best freewheel ever made, the Shimano 11-34 7-speed, costs me
> > about $20 from my LBS. It's available into the foreseeable future so
> > there's no need to stock up.
>
>
> Thanks. Certainly worth looking into, though I don't recall ever seeing
> one. Does it work with 125mm spacing?
Yes.
Chalo Colina
Bluto
Qui si parla Campagnolo
>><BR><BR>
<< I notice on Sheldon Brown's site that this is designed for 126 mm
> spacing - the same as six speed freewheels. Can I just subsitute one of
> take up enough chain?
<< Yes.
Depends on the axle overhang you have on the rear hub now. You may have enough
for a 7s freewheel, may not...If you don't, you can move a few spacers to the
right, redish a wee bit..