What do you carry in your road bike seat pack?
cycledogg
1 spare tube
2 tire levers
tire boot (3" x 1" cut from side wall of an old tire)
5mm and 8mm allen wrench
4 self adhesive tire patches (Scabs)
small pair of pliers
small screwdriver
2 screws for cleats
money (5 dollar bills)
Not a lot but these things have got be out of tight spots in the past.
Rick in Tennessee
landotter
I'm in Tennesse as well, Rick. Why those idiotic self-adhesive patches?
Get some Remas or similar and you can patch the tube and be done with
it. Self-adhesives are the dumbest thing since they came out with
"Cornflakes with Xtra Tacks!"
So:
Real patches in a box wrapped with some duct tape (in case of terror!)
folding hex wrench set
3 zip ties
spoke wrench
2 spokes
phone
1 lever 'cause I don't buy tires, like contis, that requre poopin my
pants to mount
That's in my hydration pack, btw, and the spokes are just because I
broke my first in a decade, they're voodoo charms is all.
Lou Holtman
"cycledogg" <cycl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157030969.4...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Just to see who carries what.
> 1 spare tube
Yes and when on rainy day an extra spare tube in my pocket
> 2 tire levers
Yes
> tire boot (3" x 1" cut from side wall of an old tire)
No
> 5mm and 8mm allen wrench
No
> 4 self adhesive tire patches (Scabs)
yes plus a little piece of sandpaper and glue.
> small pair of pliers
No
> small screwdriver
No
> 2 screws for cleats
No
> money (5 dollar bills)
Yes.. well 20 euro
plus one CO2 cartrigde and http://www.bike2build.nl/toonartikel.php?id=16366
Lou
Randall Schulz
> Just to see who carries what.
> ...
>
> Rick in Tennessee
2 Spare Tubes
Patch Kit
Multi-Tool
2 Tire Levers (plastic)
Triple-slot Spoke Wrench
- Miscellaneous Bills & Coins
(I added coins after encountering a pay toilet at a critical moment.)
RRS
RonSonic
>Just to see who carries what.
Cheap Park multitool
tire levers
tube
small patch kit
small change
Never needed more
Ron
Keiron
news:1157030969.4...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
1.Hatstand (for cycle helmet you see), check
2.Jeeves the Valet/James if you prefer, (to advise me on tricky social
occasions and trail lines), check
3.four poster (the rides can be tiring), check
4.Silverware, obviously
and
5.Jazz Quartet, nice
Callistus Valerius
forget all of that jazz, I just put my glock 33
http://www.glock.com/g33.htm in the seatbag. You can get anything you want
with this tool. Bring a couple extra clips if you exepect some heavy action
though.
C Wright
>> Just to see who carries what.
>> 1 spare tube
Yes
>> 2 tire levers
Yes
>> tire boot (3" x 1" cut from side wall of an old tire)
No
>> 5mm and 8mm allen wrench
Instead I carry a Crank Bros. Multi tool
>> 4 self adhesive tire patches (Scabs)
Yes
>> small pair of pliers
Yes - a small folding pliers
>> small screwdriver
See above multi tool
>> 2 screws for cleats
No - I have never broken one of these screws. I guess that if I did I would
remove the cleat and peddle w/o.
>> money (5 dollar bills)
Yes
>> Not a lot but these things have got be out of tight spots in the past.
>>
>> Rick in Tennessee
In addition to the above I carry:
A small selection of first aid supplies
A couple of spare chain links and pins
A pair of medical rubber gloves (more to keep hands clean for repairs, but
could be used for medical purposes)
A CO2 pump and cartridges
Chuck
Mark
Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
(chop chop chop)
> When I go to the trunk bag, of course, my inventory boggles the mind :-)
You bring the full on 25 pound first-aid kit backpacking along "just in
case" right?
Nice kit.
Mark
Mark
> No - I have never broken one of these screws. I guess that if I did I would
> remove the cleat and peddle w/o.
Speedplays were/are notorious for having the 5mm screws back out. It's
worth throwing a couple extras in with your patch kit.
Mark
Andy M-S
lives in my Carradice when not actually on the bike:
1 tube
1 QuikStik tire lever'
1 tiny Ritchey multitool/chaintool + 5mm hex tool
1 patch kit, which contains:
- 3 Rema patches
- Rema TipTop patch glue
- a little sandpaper
- 1 SRAM 9-speed connecting link
- 1 3W halogen bulb for my Lumotec
(it occurs to me that I should put $.50 or so in there for phone
calls, but I can never find pay phones anymore!
1 small (26" x 1/8") cable and small padlock--for the occasional stop
somewhere.
bdb...@gmail.com
Kristian M Zoerhoff wrote:
> In article <1157030969.4...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> cycl...@hotmail.com says...
> > Just to see who carries what.
>
> 1 spare tube
> 2 tire levers
> Handful of patches + glue and scraper
> 2 small wrenches
> Spoke wrench
> Chain breaker
> Several spare chain links
> 1 Presta-Schraeder adapter
> Packet of Tylenol
> Packet of insect repellant cream (good for black flies)
> Cell phone
> Wallet
> Keys (for bike lock, house, and hitch-mounted rack)
> Pepper spray
> Swiss Army knife (sometimes -- contains my pliers)
> Rain cover for the bag
> Spare blinky light (sometimes, usually amber)
>
> When I go to the trunk bag, of course, my inventory boggles the mind :-)
>
>
> __o Kristian Zoerhoff
> _'\(,_ kristian...@gmail.com
> (_)/ (_)
Pepper spray in the (under) seat pack?
I think that would have too high of an access time to be effective.
I opted for the "holster-mounted" version that I can have amred and
ready in under a second, strapped to the underside of the top tube.
-bdbafh
Art Harris
> Just to see who carries what.
In my Jandd Expandable Seat Wedge:
2 spare tubes
Rema patch kit
3 metal tire levers
chain tool
couple of Shimano chain pins
small screw driver
several allen wrenches
Spokey spoke wrench
zip ties
rag
packaged clean wipe
large band aid
usually a PB&J sandwich
(seems like I'm forgetting something)
Art Harris
Alan Hoyle
I have a multi-tool (with allen wrenches, screwdrivers, and chain
tool), spare tube, tire levers, boot, patch kit (patches, sandpaper,
glue), and a SRAM power link.
-alan
--
Alan Hoyle - al...@unc.edu - http://www.alanhoyle.com/
"I don't want the world, I just want your half." -TMBG
Get Horizontal, Play Ultimate.
(PeteCresswell)
>Just to see who carries what.
Ever since a local rider lost one of his legs to antibiotic-resistant staph from
road rash: a tiny (ounce or less) squeeze bottle of Betadyne.
--
PeteCresswell
Luca Magnoni
1 spare tubular
2 CO2 cartridges + valve
That's it!
Ciao
Luca
Sammy Shuford
1 multitool
2 tire levers
1 spare tube in ziplock.
CO2 pump and 2 refills
Patch kit.
handy wipes, 1 each in foil packets.
and 1 house key!
bdb...@gmail.com
Rick,
what does the ziplock bag for the spare tube do for you?
just limit oxydation?
-bdbafh
Artoi
"cycledogg" <cycl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
What's the weight of it all? Surely weight is an essential element of
all cycling HW discussions, right? ;)
--
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Rick,
I'm surprised that so many posters carry coins and bills, but only two
so far bother to carry a couple of zip ties. (Or wire or string or
rope or something like that.)
Possibly I should carry more zip ties and sell them to the fellows
carrying all that cash when they need a zip tie?
When I first read this thread, I began to hope that I could sell the
small packet of Kleenex (which doubles as toilet paper) for a handsome
profit, but I suppose that everyone else plans to use those $5 bills
that they carry.
Maybe five $1 bills would be a better idea.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Artoi
Anyone care to comment on when one should patch and when one should
change the tube? I note that tubes can be had for $5, putting
environmental issues aside, it's not that much different to the cost of
a patch kit or even cheaper. Do people find it easier to patch than
changing a tube out on the road?
--
Sammy Shuford
Had not thought about protecting for air.
C Wright
artoi-439E47....@news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Artoi"
<ar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
I replace the tube if I experience a flat on a ride. The patches are only a
precaution should I experience a second flat on the same ride. No
particular science to this method, but that is what I do.
Chuck
Artoi
C Wright <wright9_nojunk@nojunk_mac.com> wrote:
Would that be an issue based on convenience? I have never had to do
either in the past and is trying to mentally prepare for the inevitable.
--
Booker C. Bense
In article <artoi-62A973....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
Artoi <ar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In article <C11CCDE3.62B43%wright9_nojunk@nojunk_mac.com>,
> C Wright <wright9_nojunk@nojunk_mac.com> wrote:
>
>> On 8/31/06 5:07 PM, in article
>> artoi-439E47....@news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Artoi"
>> <ar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Anyone care to comment on when one should patch and when one should
>> > change the tube?
>> > --
>> I replace the tube if I experience a flat on a ride. The patches are only a
>> precaution should I experience a second flat on the same ride. No
>> particular science to this method, but that is what I do.
>
>Would that be an issue based on convenience? I have never had to do
>either in the past and is trying to mentally prepare for the inevitable.
>--
When you're pressed for time and dirty and sweaty, it's a bit
hard to be be patient enough to do the patch right. Nothing quite
as agravating as going through the whole patch routine only to
have it fail a few hundred meters down the road. Tubes I patch
at home work just fine, but I have a much higher failure rate
on the road.
One thing I've learned the hard way is to find out what caused
the flat before you put everything back together. If you don't
chances are you'll not get very far before having to go through
the whole mess again.
Lastly, once you open the glue retire it to patching tubes at
home and put a fresh tube in your patch kit. Once the metal seal
on the tube is broken the glue will likely dry up before you
need it again.
_ Booker C. Bense
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Bill Sornson
You've never had a flat? I'm guessing you carry a rabbit's foot in your
saddle bag! :-D
R Brickston
R & R the tube and then patch at home.
(PeteCresswell)
>Anyone care to comment on when one should patch and when one should
>change the tube? I note that tubes can be had for $5, putting
>environmental issues aside, it's not that much different to the cost of
>a patch kit or even cheaper. Do people find it easier to patch than
>changing a tube out on the road?
My view is that once I accumulate enough patches, I've got a thorn-resistant
tube.
Besides, patch kits are more like $2.00 around here (southeastern Penna) and one
kit can do 6-8 patches - more if you cut the big boyz in half.
--
PeteCresswell
Paul Hobson
> Artoi wrote:
>> I have never had to do
>> either in the past and is trying to mentally prepare for the
>> inevitable.
Bill Sornson wrote:
> You've never had a flat? I'm guessing you carry a rabbit's foot in your
> saddle bag! :-D
After two years of riding around Atlanta, I had never had a flat until
my first real commute: From Decatur to Georgia Tech (7 miles) for my
first day of grad school. I was cruising down a very familiar road and
it happened. I ended up going through 4 tubes that day due to broken
valve cores and bad patches :p
--
Paul M. Hobson
Georgia Institute of Technology
.:change the f to ph to reply:.
Artoi
"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
> My view is that once I accumulate enough patches, I've got a thorn-resistant
> tube.
>
> Besides, patch kits are more like $2.00 around here (southeastern Penna) and
> one
> kit can do 6-8 patches - more if you cut the big boyz in half.
I guess the core question is, how practical is it to try to find the
hole on the roadside?
--
Artoi
"Bill Sornson" <as...@ask.me> wrote:
> You've never had a flat? I'm guessing you carry a rabbit's foot in your
> saddle bag! :-D
Well, never. And that's counting from when I first learnt to cycle on
two wheels. Although to qualify, I've never had a racing or racing like
bike until now. My first bike harboured a cut on the side wall for years
and nothing ever happened to that slightly herniated inner tube. And
then the 26" wide slick on the mountain bike has stayed up for the last
10 years or so. But with my new 700cX25, I suspect my luck may change...
With or without that mythical rabbit foot. :P
--
Artoi
Booker C. Bense
<bbense+rec.bicycl...@telemark.slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> When you're pressed for time and dirty and sweaty, it's a bit
> hard to be be patient enough to do the patch right. Nothing quite
> as agravating as going through the whole patch routine only to
> have it fail a few hundred meters down the road. Tubes I patch
> at home work just fine, but I have a much higher failure rate
> on the road.
>
> One thing I've learned the hard way is to find out what caused
> the flat before you put everything back together. If you don't
> chances are you'll not get very far before having to go through
> the whole mess again.
>
> Lastly, once you open the glue retire it to patching tubes at
> home and put a fresh tube in your patch kit. Once the metal seal
> on the tube is broken the glue will likely dry up before you
> need it again.
Wise. And the fact that the glue dries up before next use would bring
the cost of a patch kit (equivalent of single use) and a tube to a very
comparable level.
--
landotter
I grab a few kits when grabbing detritus from Nashbar, and indeed cut
some in half for pinholes. Usually get them for a buck a pop and they
patch at least four punctures, taking into account that sometimes you
forget to tighten the glue top. So 25c vs $5. A no brainer. My grandad
was the one that convinced me that patching was the way. He had bikes
with 20 patches on each tube that he rode to the store.
Faster as well. I can almost always examine the tire and find the
inevitable glass cut, pull it out, remove 10" of tube, patch, and pump,
way faster than replacing a tube. I've had maybe 2 patches in twenty
years leak as a fubared the job. It's not rocket science. We used to
have races to see who could fix a flat the fastest when I was a teen,
so that probably helps. :-P
Worse, is the one of the LBS's that preaches the dangers of not
bringing your wheel in for a professional assessment after you've had a
puncture. Ka-ching.
Had a rash a few weeks ago on the city bike, as I was riding in tons of
summer storms, and we all know that glass loves storms!
cycledogg
patches. Less mess on the road and no worries that the glue may be dry
the next time you have to patch. Maybe I have been lucky using them.
Also, I do carry a pump attached to the frame and a cell phone stashed
in the jersey pocket.
Cheers
Rick in Tennessee
Mark
Artoi wrote:
> I guess the core question is, how practical is it to try to find the
> hole on the roadside?
Trivial in most cases. I always locate the hole and then look at the
tire in the appropriate place to make sure I removed the sharp bits
that caused the flat (assuming it wasn't a pinch flat or some other
sort of blowout). Also check the entire tire for other sharp bits that
have not yet made it into the tube (mount tires with the lable at the
valve to make this easier). Nothing stinks like changing another flat 2
miles down the road.
Patching is cost effective and it seems silly to chuck a tube when a
few minutes patching makes it perfectly useable.
FWIW, I buy the little patches in bulk and vulcanizing fluid the same
way. 100 patches lasts a long time even when riding 8-10K miles a year
(times two since I do the wife's flats as well). On rides we carry two
tubes each and generally have 5-6 spares at home waiting. Punctured
tubes get put in the "to patch bin" and a replacement goes in the
saddle bag. When I get down to a couple usable spares I spend 30
minutes patching to replenish the stash. Just like we used to do with
tubulars except it's a lot easier to patch than to sew.
Mark
carl...@comcast.net
>I guess the core question is, how practical is it to try to find the
>hole on the roadside?
Dear Artoi,
Older posters may have sad news for younger riders concerning how easy
it will be to spot tiny holes in the future.
Tiny holes are always harder to spot as dusk approaches.
Tiny holes are also more likely to occur and more difficult to patch
in the rain.
If you get a flat on a rainy, windy afternoon with twilight coming on,
it's nice to have a spare tube.
I run Slime tubes, carry four spare tubes (two Slime tubes and two
plain tubes with long valve in case I meet a gorgeous woman with a
flat tire and aero rims), plus an instant patch kit.
Last year, I ended up using an instant pre-glued patch to finish my
15-mile daily ride after five flats and tube failures. The patch held
quite nicely.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Michael Press
<artoi-439E47....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
Artoi <ar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Anyone care to comment on when one should patch and when one should
> change the tube? I note that tubes can be had for $5, putting
> environmental issues aside, it's not that much different to the cost of
> a patch kit or even cheaper. Do people find it easier to patch than
> changing a tube out on the road?
I carry three spare tubes. One to replace the flatted
tube, one to replace the replacement that mysteriously
does not hold air, and one for back up. I carry the patch
kit, but patch at home, since a patch needs 1 day to cure
before being put into service.
--
Michael Press
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
cycledogg wrote:
> Just to see who carries what.
> 1 spare tube
> 2 tire levers
> tire boot (3" x 1" cut from side wall of an old tire)
> 5mm and 8mm allen wrench
> 4 self adhesive tire patches (Scabs)
> small pair of pliers
> small screwdriver
> 2 screws for cleats
> money (5 dollar bills)
> Not a lot but these things have got be out of tight spots in the past.
Upright bicycles seat bags are wimpy. For a bag that can hold necessary
gear for changing weather/temperature conditions, enough food and water
for long rides without re-supply, and tools and spares for any probable
breakdown, see <http://www.radicaldesign.nl/images/allfa/altl.jpg>.
--
Tom Sherman - Behind the Cheddar Curtain
Patrick Lamb
<kristian...@gmail.com> wrote:
>In article <1157030969.4...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>cycl...@hotmail.com says...
>> Just to see who carries what.
>
>1 spare tube
>2 tire levers
>Topeak multi-tool (6 allen heads, two screwdriver bits)
>Handful of patches + glue and scraper
>2 small wrenches
>Spoke wrench
>Chain breaker
>Several spare chain links
>1 Presta-Schraeder adapter
>Packet of Tylenol
>Packet of insect repellant cream (good for black flies)
>Cell phone
>Wallet
>Keys (for bike lock, house, and hitch-mounted rack)
>Pepper spray
>Swiss Army knife (sometimes -- contains my pliers)
>Rain cover for the bag
>Spare blinky light (sometimes, usually amber)
>
>When I go to the trunk bag, of course, my inventory boggles the mind :-)
Gotta ask, who makes your seat pack? Carradice??
Pat
Email address works as is.
Patrick Lamb
Not usually that hard, since you really REALLY want to find what made
that puncture. As other posters have noted, you'll have another flat
if you leave the wire/glass/whatever in the tire. Still, I usually
just find the wire, change the tube, and patch at home.
I usually get 4 or more patches in a tube before there's some reason I
can't patch it, like a broken valve, leak around the bottom of the
stem, or long cut, or tear. With patches, that's $5 tube + $3 patch
kit = $8. Individual tubes, $20+ @$5 each.
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
I have some tubes that were patched on the road and put immediately
back to use. The patches are still holding more than 5 years later.
Maybe larger diameter, lower pressure tire/tube combinations (e.g.
44-406 at 6-7 bar) are more tolerant of quick patching?
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> I guess the core question is, how practical is it to try to find
>> the hole on the roadside?
> Older posters may have sad news for younger riders concerning how
> easy it will be to spot tiny holes in the future.
> Tiny holes are always harder to spot as dusk approaches.
> Tiny holes are also more likely to occur and more difficult to patch
> in the rain.
> If you get a flat on a rainy, windy afternoon with twilight coming
> on, it's nice to have a spare tube.
> I run Slime tubes, carry four spare tubes (two Slime tubes and two
> plain tubes with long valve in case I meet a gorgeous woman with a
> flat tire and aero rims), plus an instant patch kit.
> Last year, I ended up using an instant pre-glued patch to finish my
> 15-mile daily ride after five flats and tube failures. The patch
> held quite nicely.
Two items come to mind:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/thorns.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/patching.html
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>>> Anyone care to comment on when one should patch and when one
>>> should change the tube? I note that tubes can be had for $5,
>>> putting environmental issues aside, it's not that much different
>>> to the cost of a patch kit or even cheaper. Do people find it
>>> easier to patch than changing a tube out on the road?
>> I carry three spare tubes. One to replace the flatted tube, one to
>> replace the replacement that mysteriously does not hold air, and
>> one for back up. I carry the patch kit, but patch at home, since a
>> patch needs 1 day to cure before being put into service.
> I have some tubes that were patched on the road and put immediately
> back to use. The patches are still holding more than 5 years later.
> Maybe larger diameter, lower pressure tire/tube combinations (e.g.
> 44-406 at 6-7 bar) are more tolerant of quick patching?
Don't be too sure about that. Next time you throw out a tube, take
tin shears and cut through one of your most bulging patches. I think
you will find the ones done on the road and used immediately have a
large part of their centers lifted off and full of talc. You've just
been lucky.
At the last InterBike trade show I brought this up with the REMA
representative who, like you believed his patches were solid. I told
him that I could pull a patch of easily right after it was put in
place... but not six or more hours later. That can be done at home
with heat.
So he prepared a sample tube and applied glue, let dry and placed the
patch and pressed it on solid with s little patch roller. Then he
gave it to me and was astonished how easily I pulled it off.
Old patches are best removed by pushing the patch onto a moderately
warm frying pan with the thumb. When it gets too hot to hold the
thumb any longer, peel the patch off. I have had to do this with
various patches that for one reason or another had to come off.
Jobst Brandt
Mark Hickey
>Anyone care to comment on when one should patch and when one should
>change the tube? I note that tubes can be had for $5, putting
>environmental issues aside, it's not that much different to the cost of
>a patch kit or even cheaper. Do people find it easier to patch than
>changing a tube out on the road?
I use glueless patches, so I like to use 'em on the side of the road.
They're fairly worthless unless they're on a tube that's inflated
tightly inside a tire. Sometimes I'll have a really slow leak that I
can't find (especially when it's windy) and then I'll break out the
new tube. But normally I'll only toss the tube when it's got 4-5
patches (by then the oldest of the glueless patches is starting to
degrade).
BTW, I use the Park patches - I've used others that are not nearly as
good.
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
landotter
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Don't be too sure about that. Next time you throw out a tube, take
> tin shears and cut through one of your most bulging patches. I think
> you will find the ones done on the road and used immediately have a
> large part of their centers lifted off and full of talc.
Bullshit as usual from Jobst. Never had a bulging patch in 20 years of
serious riding. I've had a patch where I didn't buff enough and it
leaked a bit. BFD, just fixed it when I noticed the leak. Couple or
three of those in the same 20 years. OMG, call the press.
> At the last InterBike trade show I brought this up with the REMA
> representative who, like you believed his patches were solid. I told
> him that I could pull a patch of easily right after it was put in
> place.
So what? Do you have tiny monkeys inside of your tires that wrench off
patches? I don't. Tire pressure will keep everything happy tilll the
sucker's well cured.
Stretch
Yawn.
I can pull most clinchers off the rim if they're not inflated...without
levers...Ohh n0es!
Steve Gravrock
> What's the weight of it all? Surely weight is an essential element of
> all cycling HW discussions, right? ;)
You piqued my curiosity. My rack trunk & contents weigh 2.6 lbs plus
another 2.8 lbs if I carry a lock, which I usually do. Here's what I
carry:
- Allen wrenches
- Small screwdriver
- 8mm combination wrench
- Tire levers
- Patch kit (with dried-out glue, whoops)
- Spare tube
- Chain tool
- Master link
- Spare Frog cleat
- Headlight
- Lightweight rain shell
- Comb
All of that stuff has either come in handy or would have if I'd been
carrying it at the time. For commuting, add a change of clothes and
the load can easily weigh more than half as much as the unloaded bike.
Michael Press
<1157079020....@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com>,
"Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman" <sunset...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
The risk is flexion as the uncured patch rolls through the
contact patch. If the risk were very high, we would not
ride a fresh patch. I have patched on the road, but prefer
not to.
--
Michael Press
RS
important, very.
In article
<1157030969.4...@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
cycl...@hotmail.com says...
>
>
>Just to see who carries what.
>1 spare tube
>2 tire levers
>tire boot (3" x 1" cut from side wall of an old tire)
>5mm and 8mm allen wrench
>4 self adhesive tire patches (Scabs)
>small pair of pliers
>small screwdriver
>2 screws for cleats
>money (5 dollar bills)
>Not a lot but these things have got be out of tight spots in the past.
>
>Rick in Tennessee
>
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Jobst,
Ah, your familiar claim that goathead thorns should just be spotted
and avoided! It wouldn't be summer without it.
For those unfamiliar with goatheads, here's one sitting on a dime:
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/Goathead.jpg
It's a nice, clean, easy-to-spot example, not the dark, dirty kind
that I often remove from my tires. (What looks like rough-weave blue
carpet is actually a very smooth mouse pad.)
The little thorns are spread all over the paths and roads by beople on
foot, maintenance trucks, mowers mounted on tractors, wind, and the
occasional flooding from thunderstorms.
Here's a 20 mph, 30-feet-per-second section of my daily ride:
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/047_spot_the_goathead.jpg
The picture shows about 30 feet of path, so you have one second to
spot and avoid running over the goathead thorn.
The focus isn't perfect in that picture, and the thorn isn't a nice
clean yellow, so here's a closer view:
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/050_spot_the_goathead.jpg
Go ahead, take another second. Some people claim to that these thorns
cause problems, but you don't even have to dodge it--just tell us
where it is. Copy the picture, fire up a paint program, and draw a
circle around it.
I've got about ten miles of path and road surface like that on my
daily ride, most of it at 20 mph and 30 feet-per-second downhill.
Where things are smoother, the speed reaches 40 mph and 60
feet-per-second.
Incidentally, no herbicides are involved, just goatheads colonizing
disturbed and barren earth, like any weed.
There are also a few hundred cracks like these two:
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/038_goatheads_in_crack.jpg
Goathead vine is growing in both cracks from both sides of the path,
mixed in with the other weeds and grass. It's a shame that the tiny
yellow flowers aren't out.
Here we have some pretty little flowers, right next to the path:
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/020_dock_goatheads.jpg
Over half a mile of path like this runs past two ponds. You can't go
twenty feet without similar mats of goathead vines, often growing on
both sides of the path.
Those pictures were taken back in July. A month later, the goathead
vines have grown out a foot onto the 8-foot-wide path, sometimes from
both sides.
And yes, the crack across the path in that picture has a goathead vine
growing completely across it.
Incidentally, no herbicides are used here, just twice-a-year mowing to
keep the rageweed from turning long six-footh-high stretches of the
path into horrible imitations of narrow Christmas-tree-lot aisles. The
goatheads like the climate and soil and colonize the barren stretches
along the sides of the paths and roads.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
carl...@comcast.net
wrote:
Dear Mark,
I had good luck, too, when I ran out of spare tubes on a ride and was
forced to use a Park glueless patch.
It looked like a cheap square of clear plastic wrap, but it held air
for a month and was hard to peel off.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Artoi
carl...@comcast.net wrote:
> Here we have some pretty little flowers, right next to the path:
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/020_dock_goatheads.jpg
Where are you guys to have such vegetation in your neighborhood?
--
Jenny Brien
carl...@comcast.net wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 00:41:28 GMT, Artoi <ar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I guess the core question is, how practical is it to try to find the
> >hole on the roadside?
>
> Dear Artoi,
>
> Older posters may have sad news for younger riders concerning how easy
> it will be to spot tiny holes in the future.
>
> Tiny holes are always harder to spot as dusk approaches.
>
> Tiny holes are also more likely to occur and more difficult to patch
> in the rain.
>
> If you get a flat on a rainy, windy afternoon with twilight coming on,
> it's nice to have a spare tube.
>
suspect area under your nostrils. You'll feel the hole a lot easier
than you can see it. I've found this works with even the very slow
puncture that would only produce one bubble at a time if you put the
tube in water.
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> Tom Sherman writes:
>
> >>> Anyone care to comment on when one should patch and when one
> >>> should change the tube? I note that tubes can be had for $5,
> >>> putting environmental issues aside, it's not that much different
> >>> to the cost of a patch kit or even cheaper. Do people find it
> >>> easier to patch than changing a tube out on the road?
>
> >> I carry three spare tubes. One to replace the flatted tube, one to
> >> replace the replacement that mysteriously does not hold air, and
> >> one for back up. I carry the patch kit, but patch at home, since a
> >> patch needs 1 day to cure before being put into service.
>
> > I have some tubes that were patched on the road and put immediately
> > back to use. The patches are still holding more than 5 years later.
> > Maybe larger diameter, lower pressure tire/tube combinations (e.g.
> > 44-406 at 6-7 bar) are more tolerant of quick patching?
>
> Don't be too sure about that. Next time you throw out a tube, take
> tin shears and cut through one of your most bulging patches. I think
> you will find the ones done on the road and used immediately have a
> large part of their centers lifted off and full of talc. You've just
> been lucky.
I believe Michael Press should have written, "for the best patch to
inner tube bond, the patched tube needs about 1 day for the glue to
cure before being put into service". "Needs" implies an absolute
requirement, which is demonstrably false.
(PeteCresswell)
>I guess the core question is, how practical is it to try to find the
>hole on the roadside?
It can be difficult in driving rain and especially in heavy mud.
I carry the patch kit, but also a couple of tubes. Based on the situation,
I'll either patch it on the spot or swap in a fresh tube and patch it at home.
If I can see the thorn sticking out of the casing, maybe I'll just pull the
thorn, oonch the tube out between the casing and the rim, patch it, and then
re-inflate without even taking the wheel off the bike.
More likely, though, I'll still pull the wheel/tire just to check the inner
casing for more punctures because I know I'll get sooooo PO'd when I patch,
reinflate, and then find multiple punctures.
--
PeteCresswell
(PeteCresswell)
>More likely, though, I'll still pull the wheel/tire just to check the inner
>casing for more punctures because I know I'll get sooooo PO'd when I patch,
>reinflate, and then find multiple punctures.
OTOH, for the truly obsessive, it's nice to swap in the good tube, do the patch
at home, put some air in the tube, and just let it sit on the spare tubes rack
for a few weeks to make sure there aren't any more leaks.
--
PeteCresswell
Mark Hickey
>To find the really tiny holes, pump up the tube and slowly rub the
>suspect area under your nostrils. You'll feel the hole a lot easier
>than you can see it. I've found this works with even the very slow
>puncture that would only produce one bubble at a time if you put the
>tube in water.
That's impossible on a windy day though (errr, unless you can go
inside, of course). The wind also disguises the noise associated with
a leak, so it's harder to hear. I never try to find a hole by sight
unless I know it's a BIG one.
Mark Hickey
Mark Hickey <ma...@habcycles.com>wrote:
>>BTW, I use the Park patches - I've used others that are not nearly as
>>good.e
>
>Dear Mark,
>
>I had good luck, too, when I ran out of spare tubes on a ride and was
>forced to use a Park glueless patch.
>
>It looked like a cheap square of clear plastic wrap, but it held air
>for a month and was hard to peel off.
They do look flimsy, but they'll hold for many months (even in the
Arizona heat) as long as they're in a tire that's been inflated. If
you let a tire with a glueless patch go flat, they'll wrinkle and
leak. I do a prophylactic replacement on a tube after about five
patches or a year - whichever comes first (that is, if the year-old
tube has year-old patches).
Claire Petersky
news:C11CCDE3.62B43%wright9_nojunk@nojunk_mac.com...
> On 8/31/06 5:07 PM, in article
> artoi-439E47....@news-server.bigpond.net.au, "Artoi"
> <ar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Anyone care to comment on when one should patch and when one should
>> change the tube? I note that tubes can be had for $5, putting
>> environmental issues aside, it's not that much different to the cost of
>> a patch kit or even cheaper. Do people find it easier to patch than
>> changing a tube out on the road?
>> --
> I replace the tube if I experience a flat on a ride. The patches are only
> a
> precaution should I experience a second flat on the same ride. No
> particular science to this method, but that is what I do.
If I'm commuting, then I'll replace the tube, then ride to the bus stop,
since I've probably lost time fixing the flat. While I'm in the dry, warm,
lit bus, I'll find the hole in the tube and patch it. I seem to have more
patience for the goop to cure while I'm on the bus, anyway. By the time I
get to where I need pull the bike off of the bus, I'll have completed the
patch, and I'll fold up the patched tube into the bike bag, for the next
time I get a flat.
This system works pretty well -- I manage to get to/from work more or less
on time, even with a flat, and I spend the minimal amount of time struggling
in the cold/dark/rain with it. At the same time, I'm conserving on tubes.
Yes, they're only $5 a piece, but somehow, the trip to the bike store to buy
another one ends up being more expensive than just that.
--
Warm Regards,
Claire Petersky
http://www.bicyclemeditations.org/
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky
russell...@yahoo.com
>
> > Just to see who carries what.
> > 1 spare tube
> > 2 tire levers
> > tire boot (3" x 1" cut from side wall of an old tire)
> > 5mm and 8mm allen wrench
> > 4 self adhesive tire patches (Scabs)
> > small pair of pliers
> > small screwdriver
> > 2 screws for cleats
> > money (5 dollar bills)
> > Not a lot but these things have got be out of tight spots in the past.
>
> change the tube? I note that tubes can be had for $5, putting
> environmental issues aside, it's not that much different to the cost of
> a patch kit or even cheaper. Do people find it easier to patch than
> changing a tube out on the road?
> --
On the road, replace the tube with one of the two spare tubes you are
carrying. After finding what caused the original puncture of course.
Take the punctured tube home. If the punctured tube was a failure at
the valve stem or has a huge hole or multiple holes (pinch flat snake
bites), cut it up and use if for a bungee cord. Otherwise, patch the
tube at home. Test your patching skills be inflating it and seeing
that it holds air. Then either put the patched tube back on the bike
and put spare back into the seatbag as a spare. Or put your patched
tube back in the seatbag as a spare.
Greg
1 boot
3 patches
3 tire levers
spoke wrench
bare-bones mini tool
spare derailleur hanger
ID card
1x $5 bill
2x $1 bill
4 quarters
cycledogg wrote:
> Just to see who carries what.
> 1 spare tube
> 2 tire levers
> tire boot (3" x 1" cut from side wall of an old tire)
> 5mm and 8mm allen wrench
> 4 self adhesive tire patches (Scabs)
> small pair of pliers
> small screwdriver
> 2 screws for cleats
> money (5 dollar bills)
> Not a lot but these things have got be out of tight spots in the past.
>
> Rick in Tennessee
Kristian M Zoerhoff
pdl678...@comcast.net says...
Topeak. It's this one:
<http://www.topeak.com/2006/products/bags/survivaltoolwedge.php>
--
__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ kristian...@gmail.com
(_)/ (_)
Claire Petersky
news:MPG.1f60a88b1...@news.chi.sbcglobal.net...
> When I go to the trunk bag, of course, my inventory boggles the mind :-)
I only carry a trunk bag. What it has, typically:
- Right side pocket: tube in ziplock, multi-tool, tire levers, zip ties,
pocket knife. Pump held by velcro on the outside.
- Left side pocket: band-aids, antisceptic wipe, antibacterial cream,
ibuprofen, A&D ointment, sunscreen. All of these are in tiny containers or
in sealed envelopes.
- Top compartment: wallet, keys, sometimes cell phone
- Main compartment: lunch, usually; clothes, sometimes. And an elderly clif
bar as an emergency ration.
Tim McNamara
inventories, but the brevet bikes have a bit more stuff since it's hard
to get part at 2:45AM and spitting distance from the middle of nowhere.
Singlespeed (small SciCon pack):
1 spare tube
1 Rema patch kit, 1 Park glueless patch kit
2 tire levers
1 Jethro Tool
There's so little that can go wrong with this bike that there's no
reason to carry much stuff. The SciCon pack is about the size of two
decks of cards.
Road bike (wrapped burrito style and lashed to saddle rails with a toe
strap, or in a Baggins Banana Bag with lots of room to spare):
1 spare tube
1 Rema patch kit, 1 Park glueless patch kit
1 Crank Bros tire lever
1 Ritchey CPR 9
Brevet kit (handlebar bag or Baggins Banana bag):
2 spare tubes
1 Rema patch kit, 1 Park glueless patch kit
2 Park tire boots
1 Crank Bros lever
1 Ritchey CPR 9
1 small Leatherman tool
1 spoke wrench
1 keychain LED flashlight
1 Showers Pass rain jacket (the best I have found)
For rides which will have a lot of time outside of normal bike shop
hours or which will be in remote places (e.g. 400K, 600K, 1200K
brevets), I carry a spare foldable tire, either 700 x 28 or 26 x 1
depending on which bike I am riding.
Tim McNamara
"Claire Petersky" <cpet...@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> At the same time, I'm conserving on tubes. Yes, they're only $5 a
> piece, but somehow, the trip to the bike store to buy another one
> ends up being more expensive than just that.
LOL! True, too true.
Tim McNamara
"landotter" <land...@gmail.com> wrote:
> jobst....@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
>
> > Don't be too sure about that. Next time you throw out a tube, take
> > tin shears and cut through one of your most bulging patches. I
> > think you will find the ones done on the road and used immediately
> > have a large part of their centers lifted off and full of talc.
>
> Bullshit as usual from Jobst. Never had a bulging patch in 20 years
> of serious riding. I've had a patch where I didn't buff enough and it
> leaked a bit. BFD, just fixed it when I noticed the leak. Couple or
> three of those in the same 20 years. OMG, call the press.
So? Try the experiment and see if any of your patches are lifting away
from the tube at the center over the hole. You've got nothing to lose.
landotter
I've examined many many tubes that I've prophylactically tossed, as
more than half a dozen patches seems a bit much, and looked at the
patches to see how they've held up. None have ever bulged in my many
years of riding, and the few I've wrenched off with pliers to see if
the cement was properly applied, showed zero sign of detachment.
Seriously, with 100psi in a road tube, this happening is complete and
utter nonsense if the thing is glued right to begin with. Jobst needs
to stick with wheelbuilding and quit trying to play the "voice of god"
on Usenet, as in his later years, he's coming across as being a bit
senile.
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>>>> I guess the core question is, how practical is it to try to find
>>>> the hole on the roadside?
>>> Older posters may have sad news for younger riders concerning how
>>> easy it will be to spot tiny holes in the future.
>>> Tiny holes are always harder to spot as dusk approaches.
>>> Tiny holes are also more likely to occur and more difficult to
>>> patch in the rain.
>>> If you get a flat on a rainy, windy afternoon with twilight coming
>>> on, it's nice to have a spare tube.
>>> I run Slime tubes, carry four spare tubes (two Slime tubes and two
>>> plain tubes with long valve in case I meet a gorgeous woman with a
>>> flat tire and aero rims), plus an instant patch kit.
>>> Last year, I ended up using an instant pre-glued patch to finish
>>> my 15-mile daily ride after five flats and tube failures. The
>>> patch held quite nicely.
>> Two items come to mind:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/thorns.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/patching.html
> Ah, your familiar claim that goathead thorns should just be spotted
> and avoided! It wouldn't be summer without it.
> For those unfamiliar with goatheads, here's one sitting on a dime:
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/Goathead.jpg
What is not apparent is that thrown on the ground, the tetrahedral
shape makes one or the other thorn stand vertical, the other two
corners of the seed pod making up the tetrahedral outline and
counterweight.
> It's a nice, clean, easy-to-spot example, not the dark, dirty kind
> that I often remove from my tires. (What looks like rough-weave blue
> carpet is actually a very smooth mouse pad.)
> The little thorns are spread all over the paths and roads by people on
> foot, maintenance trucks, mowers mounted on tractors, wind, and the
> occasional flooding from thunderstorms.
> Here's a 20 mph, 30-feet-per-second section of my daily ride:
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/047_spot_the_goathead.jpg
> The picture shows about 30 feet of path, so you have one second to
> spot and avoid running over the goathead thorn.
> The focus isn't perfect in that picture, and the thorn isn't a nice
> clean yellow, so here's a closer view:
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/050_spot_the_goathead.jpg
> Go ahead, take another second. Some people claim to that these
> thorns cause problems, but you don't even have to dodge it--just
> tell us where it is. Copy the picture, fire up a paint program, and
> draw a circle around it.
> I've got about ten miles of path and road surface like that on my
> daily ride, most of it at 20 mph and 30 feet-per-second downhill.
> Where things are smoother, the speed reaches 40 mph and 60
> feet-per-second.
> Incidentally, no herbicides are involved, just goatheads colonizing
> disturbed and barren earth, like any weed.
You don't find any puncture vine in this picture because the plant does
not grow amidst grass or other dense vegetation. It grows on barren
soil. If you got a goathead in your tire, it was picked up at another
location. For a convincing picture, you'll need to focus on a plant
at the edge of this weathered path that hasn't been paved in more than
ten years.
> There are also a few hundred cracks like these two:
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/038_goatheads_in_crack.jpg
> Goathead vine is growing in both cracks from both sides of the path,
> mixed in with the other weeds and grass. It's a shame that the tiny
> yellow flowers aren't out.
You'll have to show me that there are puncture vine plants in the
above pictures. I see nothing of the kind. You should be aware that
these plants produce their 10mm diameter 5-petal blossoms and thorns
through their entire life. These pictures show an asphalt path with
grass and innocuous weeds.
> Here we have some pretty little flowers, right next to the path:
http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/020_dock_goatheads.jpg
You'll notice that there is no grass or other vegetation in that patch
of puncture vine and that the plant is identifiable from a distance.
> Over half a mile of path like this runs past two ponds. You can't go
> twenty feet without similar mats of goathead vines, often growing on
> both sides of the path.
So why do you ride there? It's like riding in a glass recycling yard.
> Those pictures were taken back in July. A month later, the goathead
> vines have grown out a foot onto the 8-foot-wide path, sometimes
> from both sides.
> And yes, the crack across the path in that picture has a goathead vine
> growing completely across it.
Not in the picture you posted.
> Incidentally, no herbicides are used here, just twice-a-year mowing
> to keep the ragweed from turning long six-foot-high stretches of the
> path into horrible imitations of narrow Christmas-tree-lot aisles.
> The goatheads like the climate and soil and colonize the barren
> stretches along the sides of the paths and roads.
This plant also has a natural environment and that it is not caused by
herbicides. It grows on barren soil and its first order of business
is to seek moist subsoil, sending a tap root down as deep as one
meter. It now occupies land that it formerly did not because
herbicides artificially create its favored terrain. That herbicides
encourage this plant should also be apparent in that many regions are
not desert like and have other flora that would suppress it.
So why is your bicycle upside down in these scenes?
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/upside-down.html
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>>> I guess the core question is, how practical is it to try to find
>>> the hole on the roadside?
>> Older posters may have sad news for younger riders concerning how
>> easy it will be to spot tiny holes in the future.
>> Tiny holes are always harder to spot as dusk approaches.
>> Tiny holes are also more likely to occur and more difficult to
>> patch in the rain.
>> If you get a flat on a rainy, windy afternoon with twilight coming
>> on, it's nice to have a spare tube.
> To find the really tiny holes, pump up the tube and slowly rub the
> suspect area under your nostrils. You'll feel the hole a lot easier
> than you can see it. I've found this works with even the very slow
> puncture that would only produce one bubble at a time if you put the
> tube in water.
Similarly, passing the tube close to the open mouth gives a broader
but less sensitive scan. Also, more pressure will stretch the hole
and make it more detectable. Doubling the cross section of the tube
is a good measure.
Jobst Brandt
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Artoi,
I'm in Pueblo, Colorado.
Jobst is in Denial.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Michael Press
<1157107117.8...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> jobst....@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
I agree. The instruction you write is accurate, and more
accurate than what I wrote.
--
Michael Press
Llatikcuf
>
> I replace the tube if I experience a flat on a ride. The patches are only a
> precaution should I experience a second flat on the same ride. No
> particular science to this method, but that is what I do.
>
Same here. Throw in a new tube for the first, patch the next. Pach the
old tube at home and throw it back in the bag for the next ride.
-nate
Llatikcuf
> I have more problems with glue kits than with the self adhesive
> patches. Less mess on the road and no worries that the glue may be dry
> the next time you have to patch. Maybe I have been lucky using them.
> Also, I do carry a pump attached to the frame and a cell phone stashed
> in the jersey pocket.
> Cheers
> Rick in Tennessee
I have had no problem with glueless patches on MTB tubes, but they
always fail when I use them on the road bike.
-nate
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
carl...@comcast.net wrote:
> ...
> Jobst is in Denial.
If you look real hard, you can see Jobst Brandt here:
<http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=12&Z=10&X=717&Y=5174&W=2&qs=page+mill+road%7cpalo+alto%7cca%7c&Addr=Page+Mill+Rd%2c+Palo+Alto%2c+CA+94304&ALon=-122.1558296&ALat=37.4062277>.
[1] Link for Jobst: <http://tinyurl.com/kfsp3>.
Roy Zipris
No offense, Mr. Brandt, but that's the first good laugh I've had in
eighteen months. Thank you, Mr. Fogel. Regards, Roy Zipris
D'ohBoy
carl...@comcast.net wrote, in part:
> ...carry four spare tubes (two Slime tubes and two
> plain tubes with long valve in case I meet a gorgeous woman...
Carl, I had you pegged as a ladykiller. And, apparently, I was right.
D'ohBoy, whose charm is appreciated mostly by his dog (who's kinda
trapped anyway).
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> I'm in Pueblo, Colorado.
>> ...
>> Jobst is in Denial.
> If you look real hard, you can see Jobst Brandt here:
> [1] Link for Jobst:
For those who ride there at the intersection of Foothill Blvd. and
Page Mill Rd. this was a solid bed of puncture vine until bicyclists
got the county to no longer spray herbicides along the edge of the
road. I'm sure other environmentalists had a hand in this but there
is no more spraying there and there is no more puncture vine... at
that intersection. Farther down the road it's not clean but with auto
traffic whizzing by, the thorns don't remain out to where it matters.
The same experiment was done in front of an apartment complex, where
the apartment manager sprayed, developing a dens curbside island of
solid puncture vine. When we convinced him to stop spraying and allow
natural weeds to grow, there was no more puncture vine.
Jobst Brandt
Blair P. Houghton
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> Upright bicycles seat bags are wimpy. For a bag that can hold necessary
> gear for changing weather/temperature conditions, enough food and water
> for long rides without re-supply, and tools and spares for any probable
> breakdown, see <http://www.radicaldesign.nl/images/allfa/altl.jpg>.
Haha. How dainty.
Look here for the evolution of carrying way too much
on your bike:
http://microship.com/resources/winnebiko-behemoth.html
--Blair
Booker C. Bense
In article <artoi-7A455A....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
Artoi <ar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In article <uetef218qe5va1rr3...@4ax.com>,
> "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
>
>> My view is that once I accumulate enough patches, I've got a thorn-resistant
>> tube.
>>
>> Besides, patch kits are more like $2.00 around here (southeastern Penna) and
>> one
>> kit can do 6-8 patches - more if you cut the big boyz in half.
>
>I guess the core question is, how practical is it to try to find the
>hole on the roadside?
>--
_ You pretty much need to do this anyway regardless of whether
you patch or use a new tube, since you need to make sure whatever
caused the flat isn't still in the tire. Generally it's
straightforward, but you'll get the occasional mystery flat.
_ Booker C. bense
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carl...@comcast.net
[snip]
Dear Jobst,
Since you're determined to claim that I can't take pictures of
goatheads and don't recognize them when I do, I took a few more
pictures and entertained myself with extensive commentary.
It took so long that I put it in a whole new thread, since other
posters sometimes enjoy pictures that appear to contradict well-known
claims.
Here's the new thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_frm/thread/a6cbc6763342204c/37608e9e4b7ce770#37608e9e4b7ce770
or http://tinyurl.com/m5ggx
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
carl...@comcast.net
<bbense+rec.bicycl...@telemark.slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
>In article <artoi-7A455A....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
>Artoi <ar...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>In article <uetef218qe5va1rr3...@4ax.com>,
>> "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> My view is that once I accumulate enough patches, I've got a thorn-resistant
>>> tube.
>>>
>>> Besides, patch kits are more like $2.00 around here (southeastern Penna) and
>>> one
>>> kit can do 6-8 patches - more if you cut the big boyz in half.
>>
>>I guess the core question is, how practical is it to try to find the
>>hole on the roadside?
>>--
>
>_ You pretty much need to do this anyway regardless of whether
>you patch or use a new tube, since you need to make sure whatever
>caused the flat isn't still in the tire. Generally it's
>straightforward, but you'll get the occasional mystery flat.
>
>_ Booker C. bense
Dear Booker,
I get a lot of flats that might mystify some riders.
***
Really mysterious . . .
Tire goes flat.
Pinhole puncture eventually found in tube.
Inspection of tire shows no hole and finds no offending object.
I know what this is, so I just put in a new tube and pump it up.
(A goathead stuck its needle-like thorn tip through the tire,
punctured the tube, and then was torn off the tire. It came away
completely intact, leaving no thorn-tip behind in the tire.)
***
A little less mysterious . . .
Tire goes flat.
Pinhole puncture eventually found in tube.
Running a finger around the inside of the tire finds nothing.
But inspection of the outside of the tire discovers the base of the
broken-off goathead thorn, which the road has ground off flat.
The base of the thorn is smaller than the tip of a ball-point pen, so
inspection of the outside of the tire takes considerable care.
The thorn stuck through the inside of the tire far enough to be felt
and puncture the tube, but only when the tire was loaded with the
rider's weight.
Dig the thorn-tip out with the end of a straighten-out paper-clip.
(You do carry a paper-clip for digging out broken-off thorn tips,
don't you? If not, you might try the metal tongue of your watch band.)
***
Not too mysterious . . .
Same flat, but the broken-off thorn-tip sticks out far enough on the
inside of the tire to be easily felt and dug out with the paper-clip.
***
Painfully obvious . . .
You notice something odd out of the corner of one eye, look down, and
see a goathead whirling around on the side of your front tire.
It impaled the side of the tire when you leaned over just right, but
you haven't leaned over enough again to break it off.
Stop, pull goathead out (be careful, there's more than one thorn),
listen to tire hiss.
***
Green slime seals many of these punctures, and makes it much easier to
spot where a needle-like thorn went through the tire.
It's no fun seeing a tiny drop of green on one of your tires when you
go out to the garage the next day, but it leaves no question--you have
to fix the tire, even if it's still holding air.
Sometimes, there's no green slime visible, just a tiny wisp of the
white cotton-like fiber that's mixed in with the green sludge. Holes
like that have sealed so well that it's tempting to see if the seal
will hold, but it's really better to fix the flat.
It's not uncommon for me to pull a tube after seeing just a single
drop of green or wisp of cotton and to find several other goathead
punctures that sealed well enough that I didn't notice them.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
R Brickston
Ah... new one: Goathead Wars
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> [snip]
> Dear Jobst,
> Since you're determined to claim that I can't take pictures of
> goatheads and don't recognize them when I do, I took a few more
> pictures and entertained myself with extensive commentary.
> It took so long that I put it in a whole new thread, since other
> posters sometimes enjoy pictures that appear to contradict well-known
> claims.
The pictures:
http://tinyurl.com/qdn5o
http://tinyurl.com/hzx9f
Show no puncture vine in any cracks in the road or adjacent to it.
The picture with puncture vine is clearly identifiable by the
leaves and blossoms but the cracks in the above scenes are not those in
the "new" picture. That was my point.
> Here's the new thread:
The infested crack was not in the picture in dispute:
I detect a diversion. Nowhere did I claim that puncture vine is not a
hazard to tires or that it doesn't grow next to roads... or that you
don't know how the plant looks. I described how to identify it, how
to avoid it, and how to patch tires. I wrote how to recognizing its
appearance and habitat and avoid it, things I learned from riding
experience. You might explain what it is in those articles that is
misleading rather than imply you are a victim of false information.
If the paved path is infested with puncture vine, riding a bicycle
there is unreasonable. How it got infested is unclear, not knowing
its history of building, paving, and maintenance. You recognize the
plant so I wonder why you chose this route. There must be another way
with better pavement, one swept clean by passing auto traffic.
In any event, it is old pavement, weathered and cracked, and a menace
to bicyclists. I suggest looking into this by talking to the
legislators on the board that gave rise to its construction. I
suspect they know nothing of this. Posting pictures on wreck.bike and
giving me a hard time about it won't improve anything.
Jobst Brandt
Brian Huntley
Mark Hickey wrote:
> "Jenny Brien" <jenny...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >To find the really tiny holes, pump up the tube and slowly rub the
> >suspect area under your nostrils. You'll feel the hole a lot easier
> >than you can see it. I've found this works with even the very slow
> >puncture that would only produce one bubble at a time if you put the
> >tube in water.
>
> inside, of course). The wind also disguises the noise associated with
> a leak, so it's harder to hear. I never try to find a hole by sight
> unless I know it's a BIG one.
Even bearded, I can find a small hole like a tire-wire with my cheeks
and lips if I keep my back to the wind and blow the tube up to about
double its normal volume.
Now, what can mark a leak so I can find it again? Is there some form of
soft crayon or something available that will write on a tube easily
these days?
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
When I locate the leak by the facial method, I smear a bit of spit on
it get the exact location before sandpapering the area. The open
mouth version of sensing the leak location works best for me. Indoors
you can even use the air jet to make a tune as the mouth cavity size
is altered.
Jobst Brandt
carl...@comcast.net
<rb20170REMOVE.yahoo.com@> wrote:
>On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 14:02:23 -0600, carl...@comcast.net wrote:
>
>Ah... new one: Goathead Wars
Dear R.,
It's pretty much a matter of how many posters can dance on a goathead,
but it does let me play with my new camera and see how silly Jobst is
going to be.
I expect to enjoy his evasions, red herrings, straw men, and outright
nonsense, mixed with the usual arrogant explanations that everyone
else is wrong, that nothing could possibly be contrary to his
experience, and that he can see nothing of the kind, even when it's
literally painfully obvious.
I wonder what Jobst thought I did to the goathead vine growing in the
crack after I took the picture?
Pull enough of them out, and your fingers are going to get punctured.
Apparently, he's so deep into denial that he'll claim with a straight
face that I can't see what I'm photographing at my very feet.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Jobst,
No one said that there was a vine there.
The vines are up the slope to the right and regularly wash and blow
down onto the path.
The question is still whether you can spot the goathead (thorn, since
you seem to splitting hairs) in an incredibly detailed example of
modern digital photography.
Where on earth do you get the silly idea that you know my route better
than I do and that there must be a better way that doesn't make your
goathead entry in the FAQ look so ridiculous?
Are you going to add a footnote explaining that your goathead theories
work fine, except for miles and miles of paths and roads where there
are more goatheads than you can pretend to be dodging?
Please, take a picture of a goathead thorn on some marvelous stretch
of smooth new asphalt, post it somewhere, and give us a link. I'm sure
that will prove your theories.
And for someone claiming to "detect a diversion," you sure spend a lot
of time posting arrrogant nonsense about how I should have the path
repaved to suit your goathead theories--it almost looks like a
diversion, since the path works fine at 20 mph and more and has done
so for twenty years.
Come to think of it, your FAQ about goatheads must need a little
editing to explain that your theory falls apart if the road is
weathered.
For everyone's sake, stop feeding me so many straight lines.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Brian Huntley
> If I'm commuting, then I'll replace the tube, then ride to the bus stop,
> since I've probably lost time fixing the flat. While I'm in the dry, warm,
> lit bus, I'll find the hole in the tube and patch it. I seem to have more
> patience for the goop to cure while I'm on the bus, anyway. By the time I
> get to where I need pull the bike off of the bus, I'll have completed the
> patch, and I'll fold up the patched tube into the bike bag, for the next
> time I get a flat.
Claire, forgive me if I'm off base, but wasn't it you who only a few
years ago admitted to never having changed a flat in about 10k miles of
riding?
ObConfession: I flatted twice in the same day on my recent 7-day bike
tour - the first was a 3" drywall screw in Lakawana, NY, and the second
was a Michilin Wire just south of Niagara Falls, Ontario a few hours
later. To date, I have not patched either tube. The screwed one is
probably unsalvagable but is still in the bottom of my pannier.
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
Jenny Brien wrote:
> ...
> To find the really tiny holes, pump up the tube and slowly rub the
> suspect area under your nostrils. You'll feel the hole a lot easier
> than you can see it. I've found this works with even the very slow
> puncture that would only produce one bubble at a time if you put the
> tube in water.
You could fill the tube with flammable gas and pass it over an open
flame to find the leak.
"Oh, the Humanity" - Herb Morrison on WLS Radio, May 6, 1937
Paul Kopit
<brian_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Now, what can mark a leak so I can find it again? Is there some form of
>soft crayon or something available that will write on a tube easily
>these days?
Stick a piece of toothpick into the hole. Leave the 'flag' there 'til
just before you put the patch onto the tube.
Friday
>
>>...
>>To find the really tiny holes, pump up the tube and slowly rub the
>>suspect area under your nostrils. You'll feel the hole a lot easier
>>than you can see it. I've found this works with even the very slow
>>puncture that would only produce one bubble at a time if you put the
>>tube in water.
>
>
> You could fill the tube with flammable gas and pass it over an open
> flame to find the leak.
Or fill it with tear gas and your eyes will water when you find the leak.
Friday
(PeteCresswell)
>Now, what can mark a leak so I can find it again? Is there some form of
>soft crayon or something available that will write on a tube easily
>these days?
I've been circling it with the (yes, it's black...but it still shows up) Sharpie
marker that I carry anyhow.
--
PeteCresswell
Zog The Undeniable
> Just to see who carries what.
> 1 spare tube
> 2 tire levers
> tire boot (3" x 1" cut from side wall of an old tire)
> 5mm and 8mm allen wrench
> 4 self adhesive tire patches (Scabs)
> small pair of pliers
> small screwdriver
> 2 screws for cleats
> money (5 dollar bills)
> Not a lot but these things have got be out of tight spots in the past.
On my touring bike, a single tyre lever and a tube. I used them once.
The trick is to assemble the bike yourself and only stop carrying tools
when it's had a thorough shakedown on the road.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
cycledogg wrote:
> Just to see who carries what.
> 1 spare tube
> 2 tire levers
> tire boot (3" x 1" cut from side wall of an old tire)
> 5mm and 8mm allen wrench
> 4 self adhesive tire patches (Scabs)
> small pair of pliers
> small screwdriver
> 2 screws for cleats
> money (5 dollar bills)
> Not a lot but these things have got be out of tight spots in the past.
>
A sock with a tubular in it and a $5 bill....You carry all above for a
road ride??
Llatikcuf
I get more flats on the road than the MTB, and I ride the MTB more. Go
figure. I carry a tube, patch kit, an allen wrench and a credit card.
Packs up pretty small.
-nate
don Gabacho
what I use, by far, most often: a tire pressure gauge.
As for the rest:
1 spare tube
2 tire levers
1 folding hex set
1 small tire patch set
1 small pair of pliers
6 button batteries for blinkers on tire stems
2 zip ties
2 packs of instant fizzing Vitamin-C
1 small can of Tiger Balm for insect bites, abrasions and emergency
lube
To supplement: a neck lanyard with whistle, neccessary keys & key-ring
type philips head
If raining or threatening to rain: a fanny pack with a rolled
yellow-vinyl poncho and, for such downpour to sideline me: munchies &
small FM radio.
Blair P. Houghton
don Gabacho wrote:
> I'm amazed, but after reading the first 20 responses, no one includes
> what I use, by far, most often: a tire pressure gauge.
What do you mean? I always have my thumbs with me.
And if those are bandaged, I can eyeball the spread from above.
I suppose if I was doing a multi-day bike-camping trip, I'd bring
a micropump with an integrated gage so I could set the tires
every morning. Mine lose 10-15 lbs per day according to
my floor-pump.
--Blair
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> I'm amazed, but after reading the first 20 responses, no one
> includes what I use, by far, most often: a tire pressure gauge.
I'm amazed that your cannot feel with your thumb whether the tire is
hard enough. Maybe you pump with a CO2 cartridge but with a hand pump
the tire isn't hard enough, soon enough, so while taking a break from
pumping give a thumb-squeezes to the tire.
My SILCA frame pump takes about 80-90 strokes to get 100 psi and
that's all I'm asking for in a 700x28 tire.
> As for the rest:
This all fits in a shoulder bag:
1 Wallet
1 Cell phone
1 Digital camera
1 Deerskin cold weather gloves
1 Parka in winter.
1 spare tube with tire levers
1 Cigarette pack sized patch kit containing:
REMA glue and 24mm patches
Tire boot
Section of 2" wide power sander belt
Head of a BIC razor
Razor blade
Sharp nail
P38 can opener
Ritchey CPR9
3" crescent wrench (fits diagonally)
Freewheel remover tool
Spoke wrench
When touring several days or more I take:
http://www.trentobike.org/General/Packing_List.html
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> I'm amazed, but after reading the first 20 responses, no one
> includes what I use, by far, most often: a tire pressure gauge.
I'm amazed that, with your thumb, you cannot feel whether the tire is
hard enough. Maybe you pump with a CO2 cartridge but with a hand pump
the tire isn't hard enough, soon enough. So while taking a break from
pumping give the tire a thumb-squeeze.
My SILCA frame pump takes about 80-90 strokes to get 100 psi and
that's all I'm willing to give my 700x28 tire.
>As for the rest:
This all fits in a shoulder bag:
1 Wallet
1 Cell phone
1 Digital camera
1 Deerskin cold weather gloves
1 Parka in winter.
1 spare tube with tire levers
1 Cigarette pack sized patch kit containing:
REMA glue and 24mm patches
Tire boot
Section of 2" wide power sander belt
Head of a BIC razor
Single edged razor blade
Sharp nail
P38 can opener
Ritchey CPR9
3" crescent wrench (fits diagonally)
Freewheel remover tool
Spoke wrench
Presta valve stem from a latex tube
http://www.georgia-outfitters.com/page52.shtml
http://tinyurl.com/fjk32
http://www.bikepro.com/products/chains/chaintools.html
http://www.yellowjersey.org/stkeys.html (4th one)
http://www.yellowjersey.org/NUVALVE.JPG
When touring several days or more I take a saddlebag with:
http://www.trentobike.org/General/Packing_List.html
http://tinyurl.com/cujcg
Jobst Brandt
don Gabacho
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> Don Gabacho writes:
>
> > I'm amazed, but after reading the first 20 responses, no one
> > includes what I use, by far, most often: a tire pressure gauge.
>
> I'm amazed that your cannot feel with your thumb whether the tire is
> hard enough.
I can, but I use it to make sure the tire is soft enough---but not too
soft.
My semi-slick comfort tires are heavily fortified against flats (which
would be twice a day here without the fortifications). They have
extra-thick tubes and tire-liners.
As a consequence, I check the tire pressures daily to keep them as
constant as possible---otherwise, if the tires deflate ten pounds
minimum, it seems the tire liners slip a bit and evenutally push the
tube stems out of wack.
I don't mind checking the pressures often at gas stations when I'm
stopping to get a cool drink anyway or helping an elderly person who
invariably pulls up behind me in his or her car with neither a tire
gauge or the ability to bend over without fallling over.
Moreover: one of things I like about riding a bike, is stopping---to
socialize.
> Maybe you pump with a CO2 cartridge but with a hand pump
> the tire isn't hard enough, soon enough, so while taking a break from
> pumping give a thumb-squeezes to the tire.
Very occasionally I use a foot pump with a built-in gauge when first
starting out and the bike hasn't been used for a while---which doesn't
happen often.
The rest of the time, I use a nearby gas station pump, usually
checking, if need be, when passing it on the way out or on the way
back in.
I have a small hand-pump and, in the past three and one half years,
used it only once.
The tires are so well fortified though, I don't even bother carrying it
around for possible flats anymore.
> My SILCA frame pump takes about 80-90 strokes to get 100 psi and
> that's all I'm asking for in a 700x28 tire.
:-) After that many strokes, I'd be calling it a day.
> > As for the rest:
> Sharp nail
:-) Where I live, you wouldn't have to walk three yards without finding
one.
Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org aka Jobst Brandt wrote:
> Don Gabacho writes:
>
> > I'm amazed, but after reading the first 20 responses, no one
> > includes what I use, by far, most often: a tire pressure gauge.
>
> I'm amazed that your cannot feel with your thumb whether the tire is
> hard enough. Maybe you pump with a CO2 cartridge but with a hand pump
> the tire isn't hard enough, soon enough, so while taking a break from
My experience in inflating tires with a gauge-less pump (Topeak
Mountain Morph) and periodically checking pressure with a Zéfal gauge
suggests my ability in this area is sadly limited to "obviously
under-inflated", "maybe right?" and "probably over-inflated?".
As always, YMMV.