fury roadmaster test report
Carl Fogel
Roadmaster ($53.71 at LawTram, plus tax) deserves its
own thread. (If nothing else, this will keep this
bicycle-shaped object from soiling other threads in
rec.bicycles.tech.)
Previous and overly detailed posts regarding this triumph
of the bicycle-industry's art may be seen at:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=c255ll%241k10%241%40f04n12.cac.psu.edu
or
(which is where Dave Van Tol started it all)
and at:
(which is where Tom Sherman should have let sleeping dogs
lie). Both posts are part of long and foolish exchanges.)
As gloomily predicted, my expensive new bicycle suffered
a potentially serious mechanical problem that can only be
blamed upon inadequate setup by the overpaid slackers who
took my money!
Pedalling furiously around my four-mile route through the
city park like Benny Hill, I noticed that my left thumb
shifter did not seem as fixed and reliable as Julius Caesar,
who likened himself to the North Star.
Several times, either vibration or my clumsy paw moved the
lever from "H" toward "L," whereupon the front derailleur
began to make a faint noise, as if thinking about putting
its hand on the chain's knee--curses!
I considered posting a plea for advice, but feared that
Sheldon Brown, famed for his short tempered unwillingness
to suffer fools gladly, might lecture me severely.
(Besides, Sheldon is a fixed-gear fanatic and may know nothing
about sophisticated thumb-shifters. Why do so many dealers
become fixed-gear freaks? Is it a reaction to the endless
shifting problems that they see, somewhat like bouncers in
a topless bar losing interest in--well you get the idea.)
Luckily, I have a pre-publication copy of Jobst Brandt's
"The Left-Hand Thumb Shifter" (Huffy Press, 12th edition,
2005, $49.95). It counseled pre-tensioning the triple-ring
shifter by rotating its honkin' big cross-head screw clockwise
"until the handlebar begins to yield locally."
The shifter now seems much improved, but woe to those who
forgo the services of the local bike shop!
Carl Fogel
Kurd
lol
"Carl Fogel" <carl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:8bbde8fc.04030...@posting.google.com...
David Reuteler
> What is a "high tensity" steel?
> lol
probably a trademark.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Dave Lehnen
> What is a "high tensity" steel?
> lol
A poor substitute for the "molecular steel" that was
featured in an As-Seen-On-TV survival knife a few
years back.
Dave Lehnen
R15757
featured in an As-Seen-On-TV survival knife a few
years back.
Dave Lehnen >>
Non-molecular steel totally sucks.
Rick Onanian
>What is a "high tensity" steel?
>lol
It's steel that hasn't been properly stress-relieved yet.
--
Rick Onanian
Tom Sherman
> Non-molecular steel totally sucks.
Steel (and other metals) are formed with metallic bonds and are not
molecular in structure.
"Molecular steel" makes as much sense as "monoblade fork".
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)
Carl Fogel
> What is a "high tensity" steel?
> lol
>
Dear Kurd,
Others have noted with awe the Fury Roadmaster's fabled
high-tensity steel. The secret formula undoubtedly combines
high-tension (which makes it prone to cracking) and high-density
(which makes it--well, full-figured is the polite phrase).
Both axles are unquestionably solid high-tensity steel.
I have not yet determined whether all the frame members
are indeed hollow. Solid tubes might account for some of
the weight.
My rare-earth focussed-plate magnet (rob any dead hard drive
for this handy tool) suggests that the frame is roughly similar
to my chrome-moly touring bike.
Interestingly, the magnet that naturally ignores my touring
bike's stainless steel spokes is strongly attracted to the
high-tensity spokes of the Fury Roadmaster.
Only the black brake levers are noticeably weaker in their
magnetic attraction.
The rims are made of an extremely strong and secret aluminum
alloy, which shows marked magnetic properties and whose manufacture
may involve the Bessemer process. On their daily outing, they
probably enjoy rolling past the Bessemer ditch, dug to supply
the Colorado Fuel & Iron works over a century ago.
Carl Fogel
Dick Durbin
Does the expression "over your head like a high breeze" ring a bell?
Dick Durbin
jim beam
> R15757 wrote:
>
>> Non-molecular steel totally sucks.
>
>
> Steel (and other metals) are formed with metallic bonds and are not
> molecular in structure.
there are many intermetallic compounds with many different bonding
structures.
briefly:
http://www.mintek.ac.za/Physmet/intermet/intro.htm
John Dacey
wrote:
>After the first five rides, it seems as if the Fury
>Roadmaster ($53.71 at LawTram, plus tax) deserves its
>own thread.
<snip>
>As gloomily predicted, my expensive new bicycle suffered
>a potentially serious mechanical problem that can only be
>blamed upon inadequate setup by the overpaid slackers who
>took my money!
>
>Pedalling furiously around my four-mile route through the
>city park like Benny Hill, I noticed that my left thumb
>shifter did not seem as fixed and reliable as Julius Caesar,
>who likened himself to the North Star.
Have you learned nothing from the classics? You'll recall that Caesar
was sternly cautioned to "beware the rides of '-Marts".
-------------------------------
John Dacey
Business Cycles, Miami, Florida
Since 1983
Our catalogue of track equipment: online since 1996.
http://www.businesscycles.com
David Reuteler
> Have you learned nothing from the classics? You'll recall that Caesar
> was sternly cautioned to "beware the rides of '-Marts".
tick tock .. 6 days. (i'm igoring the bad pun) .. but i've always looked
forward to the ides of march as an indicator of spring.
--
david reuteler
reut...@visi.com
Carl Fogel
Dear John,
Hail, Caesar! Your pun fills me with burning envy.
Cassius
Rick Onanian
wrote:
>Hail, Caesar! Your pun fills me with burning envy.
Your doctor can give you a cream for that, you know.
--
Rick Onanian
meb
> After the first five rides, it seems as if the Fury Roadmaster ($53.71
> at LawTram, plus tax) deserves its own thread. (If nothing else, this
> will keep this bicycle-shaped object from soiling other threads in
> rec.bicycles.tech.)
> Previous and overly detailed posts regarding this triumph of the bicycle-
> industry's art may be seen at:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
> 8&selm=c255ll%241k10%241%40f04n12.cac.psu.edu
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/3cucphttp://tinyurl.com/3cucp
> (which is where Dave Van Tol started it all)
> and at:
> 8&selm=ZXv1c.8302%24Xb5.2972%40fe01.usenetserver.com
> http://tinyurl.com/yqv8ghttp://tinyurl.com/yqv8g
Your ride reports omits details of the fur. ;)
--
Carl Fogel
>
> Your ride reports omits details of the fur. ;)
>
>
Dear Meb,
Like the iron-hard calves of professional bicyclists,
the limbs of the presumably formerly furry Fury Roadmaster
(try saying that three times quickly) are shaved clean.
(Both tires and some frame tubes are also almost as thick
as a pro's calves.)
The Fury's clean-shaven look combines both beauty and
aerodynamics, qualities that have been further enhanced
by the already mentioned removal of two tube-mounted red
safety reflectors and a pair of white spoke reflectors.
With some reluctance, I stripped my racing steed down even
further after noticing that its kick-stand was removable.
(Lance probably takes his off for mountain stages.)
My first glance suggested that a pipe-wrench would be the
ideal weapon, but closer inspection led me to a 5/16ths allen
wrench.
What strange concatenation of design whimsy, out-of-stock
suppliers, and discount sales at the nut-and-bolt factory
led to a kick-stand attached by a monster allen-head bolt?
I expect that a comparable mass could be removed by taking
a serrated electric carving knife to the vast knobs sticking
out on either side of the tires, prongs that resemble an endless
parade of embryonic Viking horns whirling ahead of me.
Carl Fogel
Appkiller
That is the most cherry ride I have seen in a long time - and your
commitment to abusing yourself and your finely tuned cyclist's body
(;-)) on it is truly impressive. And, if I might, I would add that it
is a refreshing change of pace from the day-to-day content here.
Looking forward to reading it all!
App
Ryan Cousineau
carl...@comcast.net (Carl Fogel) wrote:
> Like the iron-hard calves of professional bicyclists,
> the limbs of the presumably formerly furry Fury Roadmaster
> (try saying that three times quickly) are shaved clean.
> (Both tires and some frame tubes are also almost as thick
> as a pro's calves.)
> I expect that a comparable mass could be removed by taking
> a serrated electric carving knife to the vast knobs sticking
> out on either side of the tires, prongs that resemble an endless
> parade of embryonic Viking horns whirling ahead of me.
>
> Carl Fogel
Fury? endless Viking horns?
I christen this bike "Val" after Valhalla of Norse legend
Don't tell Carl Vikings only went there when they died,
--
Ryan Cousineau, rcou...@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
dvt
> Have you learned nothing from the classics? You'll recall that Caesar
> was sternly cautioned to "beware the rides of '-Marts".
It has been a long time since I've read anything as funny as this.
Thanks for the chuckle, John.
--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu
Carl Fogel
[snip previous blather]
At 52 miles today, I calculate that David Van Tol now owes me
forty cents of the $7.71 reimbursement promised for a thousand
miles on the Fury Roadmaster. Such wealth reminds of me of
long-ago quarter-limit poker games, where hours of fierce play
resulted in similar sums changing hands.
As expected, my times on my flat 4.06-mile daily jaunt are ruled
by the wind. The bolt-upright position of the pseudo-mountain-bike
is as sensitive as a sailing ship to the breeze. (Laying my left
arm upward across my chest, fingers on my right collar-bone,
reduces wind drag--look out, Cobb-position aficionados!)
So far, my fastest time is 12:31 on an almost windless day,
averaging a sizzling 19.46 mph and reaching all of 22.6 mph
near the end of the long, smooth backstretch behind the zoo.
Today, a stiff zephyr lowered my overall time over half a minute
to 13:06, but my speedometer recorded a new maximum of 27.7 mph,
a fine pace, to be sure, but not enough to make up for the struggle
in the other direction at only 15 to 17 mph. (Even higher speeds
may be possible with higher gearing, but I'm saving myself for
Battle Mountain.)
Today, while whizzing past startled drivers who were obeying the
clearly posted 20 mph signs (the huge speed humps command considerable
respect), I noticed a faint--dare I say it?--imperfection in the
Fury Roadmaster.
Instead of the expected silence of pedalling along a beautifully
smooth road with a stout tailwind, there was an audible whizzing
noise from the Fury Roadmaster's two-inch-wide tires, a steady
zizzzzz! as the thick rubber hoops inflated to 55 psi whirl along
the asphalt.
My touring bike with 26 mm 700c tires at 120 psi makes no such
sound at such speeds on the same stretch of road. Nor did I notice
such sounds coming from the cars that I passed.
Is the sound caused by the stegosaurus-like tread of the Fury
Roadmaster's tires, their sheer width, or their low inflation?
What exactly is going on? The question is not merely theoretical,
since the noise may alert other riders as I attack.
Carl Fogel
Rick Onanian
wrote:
>respect), I noticed a faint--dare I say it?--imperfection in the
>Fury Roadmaster.
Minor nitpick: I believe you have a "Roadmaster Mt. Fury", not a
"Fury Roadmaster"; of course, we know what you're talking about,
just as we'd know if you said you drive a "Taurus Ford".
>Is the sound caused by the stegosaurus-like tread of the Fury
>Roadmaster's tires, their sheer width, or their low inflation?
Mainly the tread. The same width and low inflation in a slick would
be quiet; even my inverted-tread semi-slicks are reasonably quiet.
Given that tread pattern, width and inflation exacerbate the noise.
--
Rick Onanian
Carl Fogel
Dear Rick,
Technically, it is indeed a Roadmaster Mt. Fury, but Fury
Roadmaster sounds so much more--well, furiously masterful.
(Just as "SoftWare Pro" implies the existence of "SoftWare
Amateur," so may Roadmaster Mt. Fury imply that in some
remote WalMart lurks a touring Roadmaster St. Fury.)
As for the noise, what actually causes it? Do the leading
edges of the fierce tread blocks sort of slip, like the
toe of a shoe during exaggerated running?
Carl Fogel
Ed
>by the wind. The bolt-upright position of the pseudo-mountain-bike
>is as sensitive as a sailing ship to the breeze. (Laying my left
>arm upward across my chest, fingers on my right collar-bone,
>reduces wind drag--look out, Cobb-position aficionados!)
>
>So far, my fastest time is 12:31 on an almost windless day,
>averaging a sizzling 19.46 mph and reaching all of 22.6 mph
>near the end of the long, smooth backstretch behind the zoo.
>
>Today, a stiff zephyr lowered my overall time over half a minute
>to 13:06, but my speedometer recorded a new maximum of 27.7 mph,
>a fine pace, to be sure, but not enough to make up for the struggle
>in the other direction at only 15 to 17 mph. (Even higher speeds
>may be possible with higher gearing, but I'm saving myself for
>Battle Mountain.)
How does your speed compare to your old bike? What speed gain can someone
willing to spend one or two orders of magnitude more for a bike expect?
S o r n i
bearded cycling guru.
Bill "furry not fury" S.
PS: As "Roadmaster Fury" I see fury, but vice versa whiskers. Good night
now.
meb
> . . . As for the noise, what actually causes it? Do the leading edges of
> the fierce tread blocks sort of slip, like the toe of a shoe during
> exaggerated running?
> Carl Fogel
More like they first bang the pavement with the rubber edges then as
treads come under the contact patch the protrudong tread flexes the tire
surface concave upward before reversing the process after the tread
reaches bottom dead center.:D
--
meb
> After the first five rides, it seems as if the Fury Roadmaster ($53.71
> at LawTram, plus tax) deserves its own thread. (If nothing else, this
> will keep this bicycle-shaped object from soiling other threads in
> rec.bicycles.tech.)
> Previous and overly detailed posts regarding this triumph of the bicycle-
> industry's art may be seen at:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
> 8&selm=c255ll%241k10%241%40f04n12.cac.psu.edu
> or
> (which is where Dave Van Tol started it all)
> and at:
> 8&selm=ZXv1c.8302%24Xb5.2972%40fe01.usenetserver.com
> http://tinyurl.com/yqv8ghttp://tinyurl.com/yqv8g
Carl’s search:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
gives a hit on the City of Gillette Wyoming’s police auction web page:
http://www.johnjappauctioneers.com/cityauction.htm
which has a Roadmaster Fury for those wishing to bargain shop.
In keeping with the WalMart origin, note that the web page has moving
WalMart happy faces synced to a Willoughby shuffle.
--
meb
> -snippage-
> ". . . . a refreshing change of pace . . . ."
> Looking forward to reading it all!
> App
How does the Fury work with other Fury's in a Fury pace line?
--
Chalo
> Technically, it is indeed a Roadmaster Mt. Fury, but Fury
> Roadmaster sounds so much more--well, furiously masterful.
Jeremiah 23:19
Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous
whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked.
Ezekiel 7:8
Now will I shortly pour out my fury upon thee, and accomplish mine
anger upon thee: and I will judge thee according to thy ways, and will
recompense thee for all thine abominations.
Nahum 1:6
Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the
fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the
rocks are thrown down by him.
Chalo Colina
Carl Fogel
Dear Chalo,
Spreadsheet entry 03-18-2004, sunny morning, 12:43:
"I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is
not to the swift . . ."
Carl Fogel
Carl Fogel
Dear Meb,
Presumably furiously.
Actually, I'd be afraid to play peleton-tag with tires
so knobby that Charlton Heston would have been proud
to use them in those chariot-racing scenes in "Ben-Hur."
The bolt-upright mountain-bike position probably reduces
the aerodynamic advantages of wheel-sucking.
I wonder if anyone ever drafted another penny-farthing
rider?
Boadicea
Rick Onanian
wrote:
>The bolt-upright mountain-bike position probably reduces
>the aerodynamic advantages of wheel-sucking.
I suspect quite the opposite -- bolt-upright position gets MORE
benefit from a paceline. That's based on my uneducated guess that a
paceline's gain is mostly against the aero losses from the riders'
bodies.
--
Rick Onanian
carlfogel
Dear Rick,
You may be right, but here's my theory.
Wheelsucking depends on getting noses as close as possible to tails. On
a touring bike, Lance's face is a lot closer to the shorts of his
domestique than is possible when he takes a secret upright spin on his
Fury Roadmaster.
Below are three hunched-over touring bicyclists, drawn in beautiful
ASCII detail:
o'''o o'''o o'''o
Here are the same three riders sitting upright on identical Fury
Roadmasters:
| | |
o' 'o o' 'o o' 'o
The bolt-upright torsos of the mountain-bike riders would be roughly a
full bike-length apart (plus the distance between the tires).
I suspect that they would be too far apart to take full advantage of
being in the low-pressure area just behind the rider ahead of them at
normal speeds.
Perhaps some gregarious mountain-bike riders will take pity on our
ignorance and let us know how well drafting works for them on pavement.
Murray Toadmaster
--
Rick Onanian
<usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>I suspect that they would be too far apart to take full advantage of
>being in the low-pressure area just behind the rider ahead of them at
>normal speeds.
I imagine the low-pressure area is enlarged by the much larger
cross-section. I don't imagine that it would be sufficient, but...
>Perhaps some gregarious mountain-bike riders will take pity on our
>ignorance and let us know how well drafting works for them on pavement.
...Come to think of it, I did it once on an aborted group off-road
ride where we rode the street for a couple miles at the end. I had
forgotten until now. It did seem to help...but that's entirely
subjective. I have no measurements or data to back it up.
--
Rick Onanian
Carl Fogel
Dear Ed,
A private email informed me that the answer that
you longed for showed up on some news servers,
such as cycling forums, but not on others, such
as google groups, presumably having fallen through
some computer crack. So here it is again below, in
all its glory.
Carl Fogel
Dear Ed,
You pander to the basest fantasies of those with
too much time and too many spreadsheets--thanks!
At the beginning of the year, I kept a ludicrously
detailed spreadsheet of my normal 15-mile ride,
which includes about 500 feet of climbing.
After two weeks, the figures confirmed that the
wind was what mattered, and I felt too senile to
keep seven sets of times in my head on every
ride, but luckily the spreadsheet remains and
indicates that I averaged 23.45 mph for the last
1.00 miles from the fourth speed bump in the park
behind the zoo through nine turns to my garage door.
The Fury Roadmaster achieves a credible 18.88 mph
for the extra daily 4.06 mile route that ends with the
same mile without any climb of more than a foot or two.
Any fit young rider would undoubtedly improve my times.
Of course, my $225 + $25 shipping used Schwinn LeTour
98 from eBay is not exactly an order of magnitude more
costly than the $57.71 pride of China (tax included).
I suspect that in normal commuting with stop signs and
traffic lights and female construction workers whistling
at my bare legs, the speed difference would drop.
If I ever take the Fury Roadmaster out into the wilds
of the countryside, I expect that its speed will suffer.
Despite its rugged appearance, it might prove reluctant
to climb the ridge west of town.
So far, however, I confine it to a route roughly similar
to what I pedalled to school as a boy over thirty years
ago, four miles of level suburban asphalt. No tools, no
tubes, no spare Kevlar bead tire, no patches, no pump,
no cleats, no water bottle--well, the last two aren't
featured on my normal ride, so perhaps I shouldn't
include them.
I see two ways to look at the nearly 5 mph difference.
If I could urge the Fury Roadmaster to a steady 23.45
mph for four miles, I might be able to keep Lance in
sight briefly before succumbing to cardiac failure.
But despite the suicidal glory, my average 12:44 time
would drop less than three minutes to 9:58, not
exactly an impressive difference.
It's a bit like the basset hound's dilemma. What keeps
him from boasting that his sexual organ is longer than
his front leg is the fact that his mate might murmur yes,
dear, but it's not as long as your ear, even though you
trip over both.
Fury Roadmaster--the basset hound of bicycling!
Carl Fogel
Ed
>I see two ways to look at the nearly 5 mph difference.
>
Thank you for you reply regarding the speed difference between the FR and your
other bike. I have been collecting observations of the speed advantge of road
bikes over mountain bikes.
I had been riding a no-suspension mountain bike with slick tires for a few
years. Last year I repaired an old road bike and begain riding it part of the
time. I have found no speed difference between the two bikes which I crudely
measure by noting the average speed the bike computer has at the end of the
ride. I think this is because my bike computer average speed on a perfectly
flat route , about 12mph, is far less than yours, so it is not fast enough to
gain aerodynamic benefit.
The question of speed difference between mountain and road bikes has come up in
wreck.bike occasionally when bike commuters ask about switching to road bikes.
The consensis is that there is a difference of two mph or so. A strong rider
(he easily did the 158 mile across Indiana one day ride) guessed the difference
between two and ten mph which fits neatly with your observation of five mph.
***
I checked out a Fury Roadmaster at WM. The rear brake required a substantial
squeeze just to move the caliper. But Sheldon tells us we should only use the
front brake anyway so maybe that is a positive for the FM.
carlfogel
Dear Ed,
I think that you have the right idea--the faster the rider goes, the
greater the aerodynamic advantage of the touring bike's position.
However, it's not just aerodynamics. I suspect that with a full-size
crank and higher gearing, the Fury Roadmaster would turn in even more
awesome times. My situation resembles that of those drivers who equip
their cars with extra-small tires for aesthetic reasons.
Your slick tires probably help, too. With hot weather coming early (84
degrees today), I expect that the Fury Roadmaster's waffle-stompers will
soon be leaving distinct knobby marks in the tar on the road cracks,
somewhat like these nearby dinosaur tracks:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/psicc/coma/palo/index.shtml
Basically, Lance may have a good reason not to ride his Fury Roadmaster
in the Tour de France, no matter how often he claims it's not about the
bike. It works fine, however, when he just needs to pedal a mile or two
in order to flex his kidneys and produce a urine sample.
As for your unhappy experience at WalMart, I cannot emphasize too much
how important it is to examine your potential Fury Roadmaster with care,
feeling the withers, checking the teeth, listening to its lungs.
Just as no two buggy whips have the same feel, no two Fury Roadmasters
are quite the same. I rejected the first one that I looked at because
its front tire went bump-bump-bump as I rolled it around the showroom
floor, perhaps deformed from sitting against a metal railing for months.
Both my brakes work fine, so I expect that you happened to try a lemon.
Carl Fogel
--
Carl Fogel
[snip]
Afer a hundred miles, my Fury Roadmaster must now be
broken in, so I was alarmed today when a mysterious
noise suddenly appeared.
Tick, tick, tick.
Oh, no, I thought to myself, the shame--they were
all right about cheap WalMart bicycles not lasting!
Tick, tick, tick.
Perhaps I should stop and try to figure it out?
Tick, tick, tick.
I hear that sensible adults pull over and tend to
their vehicles instead of driving them to ruin.
Tick, tick, tick.
But if I pull over, I reasoned, the noise will stop,
so what's the point? I'll risk death and ride the last
block or two.
Tick, tick, tick.
Lance doesn't stop with the finish line in sight when
something starts making a funny noise.
Tick, tick, tick.
Missy Giove doesn't pull over and raise the hood when
she notices a faint sound while she's bombing down a
dry ski run.
Tick, tick, tick.
Possibly the speedometer pickup has shifted on its
improvised mounting, and the magnet is nicking it as
the front wheel turns?
Tick, tick, tick.
Maybe a spoke has broken, and its corpse is clicking
faintly? Or the now-out-of-true rim is bonking one of
the brake pads? Is a fractured fork leg creaking
regularly as I shift my weight while pedalling?
Tick, tick, tick.
Home and safe at last!
Flipping the Fury Roadmaster upside down, I inspected
the spokes, examined the speedometer magnet, checked
the brakes, and failed to reproduce the tick-tick-tick.
Hmmm . . .
The cause turned out to be a tire-colored pebble stuck
between the teeth of the Fury Roadmaster's savagely
treaded front tire.
Carl Fogel
Ryan Cousineau
carl...@comcast.net (Carl Fogel) wrote:
> carl...@comcast.net (Carl Fogel) wrote in message
> news:<8bbde8fc.04030...@posting.google.com>...
>
> [snip]
>
> Afer a hundred miles, my Fury Roadmaster must now be
> broken in, so I was alarmed today when a mysterious
> noise suddenly appeared.
>
> Tick, tick, tick.
> Tick, tick, tick.
> Tick, tick, tick.
> Home and safe at last!
>
> Flipping the Fury Roadmaster upside down, I inspected
> the spokes, examined the speedometer magnet, checked
> the brakes, and failed to reproduce the tick-tick-tick.
>
> Hmmm . . .
>
> The cause turned out to be a tire-colored pebble stuck
> between the teeth of the Fury Roadmaster's savagely
> treaded front tire.
That would never have happened if you had paid the extra to get a proper
LBS to set a commuter bike up for you properly.
Because they would have spec'd slicks,
carlfogel
> a/http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/ President, Fabrizio
> Mazzoleni Fan Club
Dear Ryan,
Good heavens, man, are you insane? You're already president for life of
the fan club--there's no need to fling Joe Six-Speed's hard-earned money
around like confetti in hopes of wooing the local bike shop vote.
It's not, after all, as if I'm entering the Tour de France. (Not that
I'm concerned about the drug testing--I'm sure that they understand that
the natural level of caffeine varies enormously.)
The cheapest 26-inch slicks that I see on Performance are $18 each, plus
shipping! (I must remember to check if WalMart sells slicks.) Would you
spend over $4,000 to put different tires on a $5,771 car?
I put air in both tires at the beginning of this month. What more could
possibly be done?
Carl Fogel
--
papercut
> The cheapest 26-inch slicks that I see on Performance are $18 each, plus
> shipping! (I must remember to check if WalMart sells slicks.) Would you
> spend over $4,000 to put different tires on a $5,771 car?
>
> I put air in both tires at the beginning of this month. What more could
> possibly be done?
>
> Carl Fogel
Hey, I'm enjoying this completely. Keep the reports coming. I've been
rooting for the furious thing from the beginning.
BTW, I just ran into walmart yesterday and saw these in both 24" and
26" for the same price. And they did sell 26x1.50 slicks there. But at
50psi max and $10 apiece, I say stick with the bumpy tires.
Eric St. Mary
> Dear Ryan,
> Good heavens, man, are you insane? You're already president for life of
> the fan club--there's no need to fling Joe Six-Speed's hard-earned money
> around like confetti in hopes of wooing the local bike shop vote.
> It's not, after all, as if I'm entering the Tour de France. (Not that
> I'm concerned about the drug testing--I'm sure that they understand that
> the natural level of caffeine varies enormously.)
> The cheapest 26-inch slicks that I see on Performance are $18 each, plus
> shipping! (I must remember to check if WalMart sells slicks.) Would you
> spend over $4,000 to put different tires on a $5,771 car?
> I put air in both tires at the beginning of this month. What more could
> possibly be done?
> Carl Fogel
Dear Carl,
I think that these handlebars are what the MT Fury needs to be
competitive in the Tour de France. The only other thing you need to do
is stop by the local gas station, dig through the trash for an used oil
bottle, and lube up your chain. With all the money you'll save on chain
lube, you won't need a sponsor; and with the unbelievable performance
advantage of the almost new handlebars you''ll be able to run-over Lance
with the amazingly well spec'd tires. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.-
dll?ViewItem&item=3668575362&category=2handlebars
Be Well, Eric
--
Carl Fogel
Dear Eric,
By hacksawing both ends off (they're so heavy that
they droop), I suppose that the curious handlebars
that you recommend could be made light enough to
suit the Roadmaster Fury. I simply cannot afford to
add more weight to it if I hope to remain competitive
outside of downhills.
As for lubricating the transmission, my aging memory
is barren of such exotic practices in connection with
the five-speed Schwinn that I rode to school, although
I have some rusty trouser-clips that must have preserved
my natty appearance.
I understand that the new Pagnamoloch 10-speed chains
(see the "Campy chain - are they kidding?") are so
complicated that debate rages about how to break them,
which way they fit onto the gears, and possibly whether
their links must be oiled front to back:
or
Carl Fogel
Carl Fogel
Dear P. Cut,
Ten dollars per tire is tempting, but still excessive.
I'm thinking more along the lines of the low three
figures--$1.95, for example.
The selection of fine rubber is likely to be less in
the smaller 24" size, despite the obvious advantages
in wind drag reduction. Perhaps Lance mounts a 24"
sew-up on the front when using his Fury Roadmaster
for the Time Trial stage?
Still, I cannot recommend the miniature, or Shetland
pony, version of my proud stallion. It will be hard
enough to lure my innocent nephew into taking the 26"
model for a spin. Although he is much closer than I am
to the Fury Roadmaster's intended 10 to 17 age group,
the trusting boy is now a college freshman, 6' 5", and
no longer as easy to hoodwink.
Carl Fogel
Eric St. Mary
> The selection of fine rubber is likely to be less in the smaller 24"
> size, despite the obvious advantages in wind drag reduction. Perhaps
> Lance mounts a 24" sew-up on the front when using his Fury Roadmaster
> for the Time Trial stage?
I think Lance was running the 24" MT Fury tires during the last Time
Trial Stage of the 2003 TDF. While Jan Ullrich was running a new high
zoot Michelin Pro Grip Tubeless, that to quote from velonews "is
designed for racing on wet roads, very cold conditions or muddy and
uneven road surfaces. It boasts a rubber compound developed for Formula
1 and motorcycle GP rain tires. In other words, all of Michelin's
expertise in racing is concentrated in this tire." Well, we all know how
that went; Ullrich wiped-out, and Lance road to victory on the lastest
Roadmaster/Subaru Impreza all-terrain tire design that was only
available to USPS Team Pros but, now is spec'd on the 24" MT. Fury.
Be Well, Eric
--
Rick Onanian
<usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>The cheapest 26-inch slicks that I see on Performance are $18 each, plus
>shipping! (I must remember to check if WalMart sells slicks.) Would you
>spend over $4,000 to put different tires on a $5,771 car?
The two Wal Marts closest to me offer a surprisingly large selection
of 26 inch slicks and hybrid tires.
--
Rick Onanian
Carl Fogel
[snip]
After a month of fine weather, water began falling
from the skies last night, an unusual and disturbing
event in my neck of the woods--I fear the worst and
will not re-read Genesis, much less risk my Roadmaster
Fury in such damp conditions.
Perhaps a turkey vulture will return with an olive leaf
this afternoon to encourage me to go riding. The whole
flock arrived last week for Spring and are now perched
on their favorite blue spruce, looking dank and dismal.
The neighbor in whose tree they roost fails to admire
their airy grace, complaining of the commotion (two dozen
birds nearly three feet tall flap noisly) and the filth
(two dozen birds nearly three feet tall . . . )
Foul weather and turkey buzzard droppings are not the
Fury Roadmaster's only enemies. A few days ago, I grew
suspicious and checked its air pressure--45 psi instead
of 55!
Now a question gnaws at my peace of mind: did the tires
really lose 10 psi in a month, or was the difference just
a disagreement between the dial gauge that I originally
used to inflate them to 55 psi and the pencil gauge that
showed 45 psi this week?
Sadly, the gauges cannot be compared--I used the pencil
gauge only because I can't find the dial gauge. (My
touring bike's tires thrive on a simpler diet of whatever
my air compressor provides, about 120-125 psi--no fuss,
no adjustment, no checking, just open the valve wide and
apply the chuck.)
Is one kind of air gauge more accurate than the other?
That is, should I favor a dial gauge over a pencil?
Carl Fogel
DRS
8bbde8fc.04040...@posting.google.com
[...]
> Is one kind of air gauge more accurate than the other?
> That is, should I favor a dial gauge over a pencil?
My wetware says you should favour a dial guage over a pencil but can't
remember the link which explains cogently and credibly why this is so.
--
A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
Rick Onanian
wrote:
>Now a question gnaws at my peace of mind: did the tires
>really lose 10 psi in a month, or was the difference just
>a disagreement between the dial gauge that I originally
>used to inflate them to 55 psi and the pencil gauge that
>showed 45 psi this week?
Yes, and probably.
>Is one kind of air gauge more accurate than the other?
>That is, should I favor a dial gauge over a pencil?
I seem to get the most consistent* readings out of digital gauges.
* Consistent with other readings from same gauge as well as other
gauges.
--
Rick Onanian
Carl Fogel
Dear Rick,
Digital? Good lord, I'm so old and set in my
ways that this new-fangled electronic technology
never occurred to me.
Hmmm . . . obviously foolish overkill . . . but
then so is my speedometer.
The shy dial gauge was discovered lurking in a box
of lawn sprinkler parts, possibly hoping to rinse
the taste of compressed air out of its mouth. It
saves its last setting and indicated that the tires
had been set at 55 psi.
The dial gauge agrees admirably with the pencil gauge,
but has an advantage that I forgot, namely a twin head
for Presta and Schrader, while the pencil gauge is a
Schrader only.
I'm still appalled by the idea of my tires losing
10 psi in a month and will watch them carefully.
Possibly a local bike shop would have carefully
reamed and fitted the valve cores to prevent this
problem?
Carl Fogel
DRS
[...]
> I'm still appalled by the idea of my tires losing
> 10 psi in a month and will watch them carefully.
You obviously don't use Contis.
Tom Sherman
> Carl Fogel <carl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> 8bbde8fc.04040...@posting.google.com
>
> [...]
>
>
>>I'm still appalled by the idea of my tires losing
>>10 psi in a month and will watch them carefully.
>
>
> You obviously don't use Contis.
A set of Continental bicycle tires would cost more than Mr. Fogel's
bicycle shaped object, leaving no money for sweetened torroidal shaped
foods.
--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)
carlfogel
Dear Tom and Drs,
It occurs to me that you might both be dying to know what kind of tires
equip the Fury Roadmaster, but are too shy and timid to inquire forthrightly--
poor moths, beating your wings against the candle-flame!
Emblazoned on the side in raised lettering is "Maxxis," but I cannot
find any model name, nor does the Maxxis site show any tread pattern
nearly as ferocious. Possibly knobs this blatant are outlawed in kinder
and gentler states.
I hoped that they would turn out to be the happily named "Minotaur"
model, but no luck. The "Hookworm" tread pattern may be the most aptly
and disgustingly named tire ever imagined:
http://www.maxxis.com/bike/main.asp
All the tires listed on the site seem to be rather more expensive than
mine, which are made in China and say "nylon" on the side--perhaps the
casing is made of nylon?
Considerable detail is revealed. The size is 55-559, 26 x 1.95. After
urging me to inflate them to 40-65 psi, Maxxis reminds me that the
minium is 40 psi and the maxium is 65 psi. Then I'm told 280-450 KPa, or
2.8-4.5 Bar.
While it's easy to mock such redundant labelling, I could have sworn
that they were 40-55 psi, so now I have to raise the pressure from 55
to 65 psi, hoping that they don't burst like silk sew-ups scratched on
the track.
And they still shouldn't lose air, any more than a doughnut
should go stale.
Carl Fogel
--
Tom Sherman
> ...
> I hoped that they would turn out to be the happily named "Minotaur"
> model, but no luck. The "Hookworm" tread pattern may be the most aptly
> and disgustingly named tire ever imagined:...
Dear Carl,
It appears that the MSRP of a pair of the appropriate size Hookworms
would be more than a new "Fury Roadmaster". Thus the economical choice
when the OEM tires wear out would be to replace the bicycle with a new
one. :(
<http://www.maxxis.com/bike/productDetail.asp?BrandID=263>.
The smaller size Hookworms are considerably less expensive.
<http://www.maxxis.com/bike/productDetail.asp?BrandID=49>.
On the Earth Cycles Dragonflyer, a replacement set of three tires would
cost less than 2% of the original MSRP.
<http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/Dragonflyer/df10.jpg>.
Speaking of off-color tire names, there are the Snafu Rim Job and Snafu
Knob Job. I suppose that we can be thankful that Snafu does not make an
air pump.
< http://www.snafubmx.com/pages/products/rim_job.html>.
< http://www.snafubmx.com/pages/products/knob_job.html>.
carlfogel
miles without any real problems--as much as Lance does in a day and more
than I did when I pedalled to school, since I certainly didn't bicycle
on the weekends.
Nor did I head out into the rain at forty degrees back then, but I
was already soaked today because the predicted midnight snow storm
decided to launch a steady drizzle five minutes after I began my
normal ride at 2 p.m.
I've noticed that the Fury Roadmaster employs a one-piece crank, just
like the faithful Schwinn that used to carry me to school. I suppose
that a pair of bearings lurk in the bottom bracket, but have no idea why
three-piece cranks are now the fashion.
Why did one-piece cranks fall out of fashion? Are the modern three-piece
cranks lighter, stronger, cheaper, more versatile, easier to work on,
more reliable, or what?
Carl Fogel
--
Tom Sherman
> ...
> I've noticed that the Fury Roadmaster employs a one-piece crank, just
> like the faithful Schwinn that used to carry me to school. I suppose
> that a pair of bearings lurk in the bottom bracket, but have no idea why
> three-piece cranks are now the fashion.
>
> Why did one-piece cranks fall out of fashion? Are the modern three-piece
> cranks lighter, stronger, cheaper, more versatile, easier to work on,
> more reliable, or what?
Dear Carl,
Does the Fury Roadmaster employ a genuine Ashtabula [1] crank?
[1] < http://www.sheldonbrown.com/opc.html >
< http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/ashtabula.shtml >
A Muzi
>> I've noticed that the Fury Roadmaster employs a one-piece crank, just
>> like the faithful Schwinn that used to carry me to school. I suppose
>> that a pair of bearings lurk in the bottom bracket, but have no idea why
>> three-piece cranks are now the fashion.
>> Why did one-piece cranks fall out of fashion? Are the modern three-piece
>> cranks lighter, stronger, cheaper, more versatile, easier to work on,
>> more reliable, or what?
Tom Sherman wrote:
> Does the Fury Roadmaster employ a genuine Ashtabula [1] crank?
> [1] < http://www.sheldonbrown.com/opc.html >
> < http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/ashtabula.shtml >
AFAIK the Ashtabula Bow Socket Company, of Ashatbula Ohio
was founded in the 1700s but is no more.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Greg Estep
> Why did one-piece cranks fall out of fashion?
Carl, I am shocked! How can you say that those cranks are "out of fashion"
when one is clearly present on your quite fashionable roadmaster?
--
Greg Estep
carl...@comcast.net
wrote:
>After the first five rides, it seems as if the Fury
>Roadmaster ($53.71 at LawTram, plus tax) deserves its
>own thread. (If nothing else, this will keep this
>bicycle-shaped object from soiling other threads in
>rec.bicycles.tech.)
>
>Previous and overly detailed posts regarding this triumph
>of the bicycle-industry's art may be seen at:
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=c255ll%241k10%241%40f04n12.cac.psu.edu
>
>or
>
>http://tinyurl.com/3cucp
>
>(which is where Dave Van Tol started it all)
>
>and at:
>
>http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2912196017d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=ZXv1c.8302%24Xb5.2972%40fe01.usenetserver.com
>
>http://tinyurl.com/yqv8g
>
>(which is where Tom Sherman should have let sleeping dogs
>lie). Both posts are part of long and foolish exchanges.)
>
>As gloomily predicted, my expensive new bicycle suffered
>a potentially serious mechanical problem that can only be
>blamed upon inadequate setup by the overpaid slackers who
>took my money!
>
>Pedalling furiously around my four-mile route through the
>city park like Benny Hill, I noticed that my left thumb
>shifter did not seem as fixed and reliable as Julius Caesar,
>who likened himself to the North Star.
>
>Several times, either vibration or my clumsy paw moved the
>lever from "H" toward "L," whereupon the front derailleur
>began to make a faint noise, as if thinking about putting
>its hand on the chain's knee--curses!
>
>I considered posting a plea for advice, but feared that
>Sheldon Brown, famed for his short tempered unwillingness
>to suffer fools gladly, might lecture me severely.
>
>(Besides, Sheldon is a fixed-gear fanatic and may know nothing
>about sophisticated thumb-shifters. Why do so many dealers
>become fixed-gear freaks? Is it a reaction to the endless
>shifting problems that they see, somewhat like bouncers in
>a topless bar losing interest in--well you get the idea.)
>
>Luckily, I have a pre-publication copy of Jobst Brandt's
>"The Left-Hand Thumb Shifter" (Huffy Press, 12th edition,
>2005, $49.95). It counseled pre-tensioning the triple-ring
>shifter by rotating its honkin' big cross-head screw clockwise
>"until the handlebar begins to yield locally."
>
>The shifter now seems much improved, but woe to those who
>forgo the services of the local bike shop!
>
>Carl Fogel
As usual in Pueblo, last week's heavy spring snowstorm led the city to
close the last part of my daily ride through the park. The long back
stretch behind the zoo is not quite perfectly level, so a foot-deep
puddle a hundred feet long appears near its end, preceded by "Road
Closed" signs erected to prevent cars from drowning their engines and
leaving their drivers marooned.
With 700c x 25 tires, my touring bike negotiates the puddle nicely,
but the Fury Roadmaster has less freeboard and broader paddles, so
both of its laps through the park that day required dropping a gear.
Apart from the sheer breadth of the 26 x 1.95 mountain bike tires, the
Fury RoadMaster's mighty knobs may act like paddle-wheels and churn up
extra water. The deceleration is impressive. Luckily, the tires are
not large enough to float--at least in such shallow water.
After its icy bath, the chain was crudely cleaned and oiled in hopes
of staving off rust and perhaps even reducing friction, since my times
had been slowly lengthening for the daily four-mile ride.
No speed improvement was noticeable after oiling, but pondering my
decline led to an examination of the long seat-post that replaced the
original short piece of pipe more suitable for children aged 10 to 17.
Although tightened (or so I fondly believed), the well-greased
seat-post had slowly inched down into the Fury RoadMaster's frame,
like a timid turtle. Under my stately bulk, so much exposed seat-post
may have provided a long enough lever to rock and wiggle deeper into
the frame. Two daily laps up and down over four speed humps could only
have made things worse.
The improved leg angle of the re-raised seat-post more than made up
for the extra wind drag of the more upright position, leading to my
best time yet, 12:15. A piece of yellow duct tape wrapped around the
post just above the frame will warn me if the seat-post descends
again.
So far, after 58 rides and over 230 miles, the Fury RoadMaster has
suffered no flats, broken spokes, or rear derailleur cables frayed
into two pieces, unlike my more heavily abused touring bike.
Now for a technical question. Slick mountain bike tires are sold and
claim to roll more easily. If they do, how much of the improvement is
due to the smoothness (less squirm into tread pattern voids), how
much is due to the reduction in material (less rubber to squirm), and
how much is due to improved aerodynamics (those knobs must churn up
considerable turbulence)?
Someone with both slick and knobby tires of this kind might try
spinning each kind up to speed the bike in a workstand, watching the
speedometer, and timing how long the same wheel takes to stop. If
weights are added to the slick until it matches the knobby, the
accuracy would be improved. A lovely assistant wielding a
turbo-charged hair-dryer to simulate the wind would make the
experiment more interesting.
Of course, pure theory unencumbered by data is welcome, as always.
Carl Fogel
Ron Hardin
if you want to experiment the other direction. On the other hand they
last forever. They're not even particularly knobby.
I don't know if there are steel studded Cheng Shins, but that might be
worth trying for heights of slowness.
I gained a free 3mph just changing to discount store tires.
--
Ron Hardin
rhha...@mindspring.com
On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
meb
It even walks on water:
http://www.pedal-paddle.com/order.htm
--
Marty Wallace
"meb" <usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:3XYoc.7106$lh6....@fe09.usenetserver.com...
> It would seem the fury is capable of incredible feats.
>
> It even walks on water:
>
> http://www.pedal-paddle.com/order.htm
>
>
Be handy for that triathlon coming up in a few weeks.
Marty
Rick Onanian
A week and a half ago, on a group ride, we got to a bridge that was
out and I joked: "Okay...who brought the amphibious bikes?"
--
Rick Onanian
S o r n i
> A week and a half ago, on a group ride, we got to a bridge that was
> out and I joked: "Okay...who brought the amphibious bikes?"
And the blond(e) in back said, "never heard of that brand".
Bill "OK, /neither/ of us should quit the day job" S.
carlfogel
> After the first five rides, it seems as if the Fury Roadmaster ($53.71
> at LawTram, plus tax) deserves its own thread. (If nothing else, this
> will keep this bicycle-shaped object from soiling other threads in
> rec.bicycles.tech.)
> Previous and overly detailed posts regarding this triumph of the bicycle-
> industry's art may be seen at:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
> 8&selm=c255ll%241k10%241%40f04n12.cac.psu.edu
> or
> http://tinyurl.com/3cucphttp://tinyurl.com/3cucp
> (which is where Dave Van Tol started it all)
> and at:
> 8&selm=ZXv1c.8302%24Xb5.2972%40fe01.usenetserver.com
> http://tinyurl.com/yqv8ghttp://tinyurl.com/yqv8g
So far, the Fury RoadMaster has logged over 300 trouble-free miles,
76 rides in a row, and a new record a few days ago of 12:07 for
4.06 miles at
20.10 mph.
Pride goeth before humiliation. Today a fellow on a road bike slowly
eased past me on the other side of the road, despite my thrashing knees.
I prefer it when I ease past the cars in the park. Or even better, zoom
past them as they timidly approach the four speed humps.
Humbled by the stranger on the thin-tired speed-demon, I pondered a
metallurgical question that has troubled me lately.
The Fury RoadMaster is alleged to have powder-coated rims. I have a
vague notion of plain aluminum rims, anodized rims, and hard-anodized
rims. I know of the passions that these stir in the manly breasts of
rec.bicycles.tech. But I recall no furious debates over powder-coated
rims. Indeed, the term seems to be bandied about mostly in posts about
painting frames.
Google shows passing references to powder-coated rims, but I failed to
find any explanation.
I doubt that my rims were merely coated with talc. What kind of powder
is used to coat rims and why? What makes it stick? Will it wear off my
brake surfaces, leaving plain aluminum exposed? Am I right to suspect
that it's cheaper than the undoubtedly anodized rims of the brash fellow
who oozed past me in the park this evening?
Carl Fogel
--
papercut
>
> The Fury RoadMaster is alleged to have powder-coated rims. I have a
> vague notion of plain aluminum rims, anodized rims, and hard-anodized
> rims. I know of the passions that these stir in the manly breasts of
> rec.bicycles.tech. But I recall no furious debates over powder-coated
> rims. Indeed, the term seems to be bandied about mostly in posts about
> painting frames.
>
> Google shows passing references to powder-coated rims, but I failed to
> find any explanation.
>
> I doubt that my rims were merely coated with talc. What kind of powder
> is used to coat rims and why? What makes it stick? Will it wear off my
> brake surfaces, leaving plain aluminum exposed? Am I right to suspect
> that it's cheaper than the undoubtedly anodized rims of the brash fellow
> who oozed past me in the park this evening?
>
> Carl Fogel
The powder used is iron oxide, the same stuff used for salmon brake
shoes, to aid in braking. In fact, there's such high concentration if
iron oxide in the powder coating, they render the rims magnetically
attractive. If you don't believe me, just take a magnet to the rims.
While this coating is quite beneficial, it will eventually wear off
due to the contact with the brake shoes, leaving the inferior bare
aluminum braking surface underneath.
According to sources, it takes some considerable effort in
pigmentation technology to powder coat rims in any color other than
"salmon". This seems to be a trade secret among some Asian rim
manufacturers. You may mistakenly think this process is cheaper than
the usual alternatives on those speedy road bikes. This is a ploy,
however, on the part of these manufacturers, dumping such products on
the market to get the American public dependent on these superior
rims. Once the market expects such quality, they'll be in a position
to tighten the screws and raise prices, leaving the consumer with
little recourse.
Sheldon Brown
> > I considered posting a plea for advice, but feared that Sheldon Brown,
> > famed for his short tempered unwillingness to suffer fools gladly, might
> > lecture me severely.
> The Fury RoadMaster is alleged to have powder-coated rims. I have a
> vague notion of plain aluminum rims, anodized rims, and hard-anodized
> rims. I know of the passions that these stir in the manly breasts of
> rec.bicycles.tech. But I recall no furious debates over powder-coated
> rims. Indeed, the term seems to be bandied about mostly in posts about
> painting frames.
>
> Google shows passing references to powder-coated rims, but I failed to
> find any explanation.
>
> I doubt that my rims were merely coated with talc. What kind of powder
> is used to coat rims and why? What makes it stick? Will it wear off my
> brake surfaces, leaving plain aluminum exposed? Am I right to suspect
> that it's cheaper than the undoubtedly anodized rims of the brash fellow
> who oozed past me in the park this evening?
You blackguardly, pulsillanimous poltroon! Every child knows the answer
to this elementary inquiry, viz.:
Powder coating is basically just another kind of paint. See:
http://my.execpc.com/~davewrit/Powder.html for an explanation of the
process.
Painted steel rims are used on low-end department store bikes because
it's cheaper than chrome plating, and they figure the bikes won't be
ridden far enough in their predicted lifespan for the paint to wear off.
(A retired Huffy exec was once as quoted to the effect that the average
Huffy is ridden for approximately 75 miles from the day it is sold to
the day it goes to the landfill. This is probably typical of department
store bikes, and explains how they can get away with using such
low-grade parts.)
Actually, once the paint wears off and the rims start to rust, this
generally leads to a slight improvement in braking power, as the steel
rusts.
Sheldon "So There!" Brown
+--------------------------------------+
| I build my cars to go, not to stop. |
| --Ettore Bugatti |
+--------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Sheldon,
Just as I feared, you're channeling Jobst . . .
Anyway, you're saying that my steel rims were just painted to look
like silver aluminum? (They're certainly non-stainless steel, given
their powerful attraction to a magnet, just like the spokes.)
Somehow this sounds like using Grecian Formula on my toupee.
Luckily, rust is not quite the problem here in southern Colorado that
it is in Massachusetts. Apart from a day or two of snow and the
occasional frog-strangler, it's dry. And I have to admit that the Fury
RoadMaster's brakes do their job nicely.
Thanks for the nice link that explains that powder coating is
basically melting solvent-free paint-powder in place.
Carl Fogel
Sheldon Brown
> Dear Sheldon,
>
> Just as I feared, you're channeling Jobst . . .
>
> Anyway, you're saying that my steel rims were just painted to look
> like silver aluminum?
Yes, Carl, you ignorant slut!
However, it's very good paint. Paint has traditionally been the place
where department store bikes spend the most money and workmanship.
Sheldon "Wasn't The Founder Of The International Communistic Conspiracy
Named 'Carl'...?" Brown
+-----------------------------------------+
| If a fool would persist in his folly, |
| he would become wise. |
| --William Blake |
+-----------------------------------------+
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Sheldon,
Alas, I plead guilty to ignorance, but my efforts to lead a life of
libertine excess have fallen short of success.
As for bicycles, a hideous thought occurs to me.
Unlike my road bike, my Fury RoadMaster's shiny silver rims attract my
magnet strongly and turn out to non-stainless steel coated with
powdered paint.
Unlike my road bike, my Fury RoadMaster's shiny silver spkes attract
my magnet strongly and turn out to be non-stainless steel, so . . .
Do you think that my spokes chromed, zinc plated, powder coated or
what? Are they really that much cheaper than stainless steel spokes?
Are they as strong as similar unbutted stainless steel spokes? Will
my spoke nipples turn out to be feeble aluminum instead of sturdy
brass? Or even powder coated steel?
I hate to prod a surly bear (or a snail-house finished tan), but I
suspect that you know the answers. I never thought to boast about the
glorious paint job of the Fury RoadMaster.
Now about your obviously "red" herring, Comrade Brown . . .
http://www.lucidcafe.com/library/96may/marx.html
http://sheldonbrown.org/journal/journal-0207.html#072702photo
Separated at birth? And is "Tova" short for tovarich? Watch the skies!
Bicycle riders of the world, unite! If you switch to penny-farthings,
you have nothing to lose but your chains!
Karl Fogel
Kolorado
ZeeExSixAre
> what? Are they really that much cheaper than stainless steel spokes?
> Are they as strong as similar unbutted stainless steel spokes? Will
> my spoke nipples turn out to be feeble aluminum instead of sturdy
> brass? Or even powder coated steel?
Galvanized/zinc-plated. Left outside in the elements, the whole set of
spokes form the dusty corrosion on the external part of the spoke, while
some parts get through the coating and rust it up anyway. Nipples are
steel, I believe. They don't usually turn at all.
FWIW, I've never broken a galvanized spoke...
Ballistics test of walmart bike off a large drop-off will be performed in
the near future... will report in the near future.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Adam Rush
>
> However, it's very good paint. Paint has traditionally been the place
> where department store bikes spend the most money and workmanship.
>
> Sheldon "Wasn't The Founder Of The International Communistic Conspiracy
> Named 'Carl'...?" Brown
As part of my first-year Spanish course in high-school, I had to read
a couple of books of my choice in Spanish. Enter "El Manifiesto
Comunista"…
The translators had been so kind as to rechristen the authors
"Frederico Engels" and "Carlos Marx."
carl...@comcast.net
wrote under a now-obvious pseudonym::
Dear Adam Smith,
"THIS TITLE IS CURRENTLY NOT AVAILABLE"
Invisible hand of the marketplace, my ass!
Stop gloating! Frederico and I still outsell your "Wealth of
Nations"!
Carlos Marx
Sheldon Brown
his rock and blathered:
> Do you think that my spokes chromed, zinc plated, powder coated or
> what?
If they're shiny, they're "U.C.P" i.e. Universal Chrome Plated. If they
have a dull finish, they're galvanized, a.k.a. zinc plated.
> Are they really that much cheaper than stainless steel spokes?
Yep.
> Are they as strong as similar unbutted stainless steel spokes?
Yes and no.
As far as pure tensile strength, they're weaker.
As far as fatigue strength, however, they're better. This makes them
popular for low-end bikes, because if you build a loose, sloppy wheel
with them, they're less liable to fail from fatigue.
Cheapo bikes generally use heavier, stiffer rims, allowing them to get
some of the strength from the rim that is missing from well tensioned
spokes.
This loathesome, reptilian smut peddler went on with:
> Will my spoke ni***es turn out to be feeble aluminum instead of sturdy
> brass? Or even powder coated steel?
I've never heard of steel ni***es, even bottom-feeder bikes use
nickel-plated brass.
Sheldon "Purity And Essence" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| "Contrariwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, |
| it might be, and if it were so, it would be; |
| but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic!" |
| --Lewis Carroll, "Through the Looking Glass" |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Sheldon,
Well, the Fury RoadMaster's spokes might be described as softly
gleaming, or perhaps a dull satin finish, so they must be zinc or
chrome, one or the other.
A proud capital "J" on the spoke heads suggests nothing in the
periodic table. Somehow, I doubt that it's Jobst's secret mark.
Anyway, you're telling me that in addition to a fabulous paint
job extending even to its rims, the Fury RoadMaster boasts
super-fatigue-resistant non-stainless steel spokes laced to
extra-stiff non-aluminum rims?
Hmmm . . . either I missed that section in "The Bicycle Wheel" or
else I've got to get a later edition. This is why I endure the
lash of your merciless scorn.
For a fellow from modern Massachusetts, you seem a bit prim, but
rather than pain you by referring to spoke ni***es, I'll call
them spoke tightening devices (STD's).
Is agent ZX6R correct that the Fury RoadMaster's STD's may be
made of steel, or do you have the brass to stand by your claim
that you've never heard of them? Would steel STD's be bad?
Anxiously,
Carl Fogel
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Sheldon,
carl...@comcast.net
Curse all these confusing little icons! Once this new-fangled
newsreader starts playing hide-and-seek, I never know how many
times it's going to send things. Come the revolution, interface
designers will be dangling from the lamp-posts like Christmas
decorations!
ZeeExSixAre
> made of steel, or do you have the brass to stand by your claim
> that you've never heard of them? Would steel STD's be bad?
On the first wheel I ever trued (on a walmart bike), I used a locking
wrench... I forget the proper name right now... the type that locks the jaws
down after you squeeze the handles past a certain point.
It mangled the nipples horribly, and I did not see any yellow/gold coloring
suggesting brass. Is there any alloy that isn't gold-colored? Maybe I
should have used the magnet test.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Rick Onanian
<phil_leeIHEA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On the first wheel I ever trued (on a walmart bike), I used a locking
>wrench... I forget the proper name right now... the type that locks the jaws
>down after you squeeze the handles past a certain point
"Vise Grips" or "locking pliers".
--
Rick Onanian
carl...@comcast.net
<phil_leeIHEA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Phil,
Practically all aluminum is alloyed and non-magnetic. Unless
anodized, it's usually silver-gray. Aluminum STD's are widely
despised on rec.bicycles.tech, where brass is considered the only
true material for Spoke Tightening Devices. The STD's that you
mangled may therefore have been aluminum.
As for the mangling, that would be an unfortunate but expected
result. The thin-walled hollow cylinder squeezed by the jaws
would collapse if there were no spoke threaded inside it. The
crushing of the STD onto the spoke itself deforms the threads,
increasing resistance. The jaws of vise-grips are finely
serrated, but not flattened or finely serrated enough to handle a
tiny 14 gauge STD, so they grind corners off.
WalMart's little tool kits often feature a surprisingly good STD
wrench, not the oversized hollow coin with a dozen slots, but an
inch-long chunk of metal rod with a small cross-piece for a
handle and a long lengthwise slot that grips the flats rather
well.
Carl Fogel
ZeeExSixAre
> On Thu, 20 May 2004 23:18:38 -0400, "ZeeExSixAre"
> <phil_leeIHEA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Is agent ZX6R correct that the Fury RoadMaster's STD's may be
>>> made of steel, or do you have the brass to stand by your claim
>>> that you've never heard of them? Would steel STD's be bad?
>>
>>
>> On the first wheel I ever trued (on a walmart bike), I used a locking
>> wrench... I forget the proper name right now... the type that locks
>> the jaws down after you squeeze the handles past a certain point.
>>
>> It mangled the nipples horribly, and I did not see any yellow/gold
>> coloring suggesting brass. Is there any alloy that isn't
>> gold-colored? Maybe I should have used the magnet test.
>
> Dear Phil,
>
> Practically all aluminum is alloyed and non-magnetic. Unless
> anodized, it's usually silver-gray. Aluminum STD's are widely
> despised on rec.bicycles.tech, where brass is considered the only
> true material for Spoke Tightening Devices. The STD's that you
> mangled may therefore have been aluminum.
Possibly, but I kinda doubt it.
> As for the mangling, that would be an unfortunate but expected
> result. The thin-walled hollow cylinder squeezed by the jaws
> would collapse if there were no spoke threaded inside it. The
> crushing of the STD onto the spoke itself deforms the threads,
> increasing resistance. The jaws of vise-grips are finely
> serrated, but not flattened or finely serrated enough to handle a
> tiny 14 gauge STD, so they grind corners off.
Hehe... of course... I was probably about 15 at the time and had no idea
there were wrenches for these things, and the wheel was a real piece, so I
didn't care otherwise.
> WalMart's little tool kits often feature a surprisingly good STD
> wrench, not the oversized hollow coin with a dozen slots, but an
> inch-long chunk of metal rod with a small cross-piece for a
> handle and a long lengthwise slot that grips the flats rather
> well.
I actually like the oversized coins... they tend to fit weird sizes in
between the different colored Park wrenches...
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
carlfogel
> famed for his short tempered unwillingness to suffer fools gladly, might
> lecture me severely.
> sophisticated thumb-shifters. Why do so many dealers become fixed-gear
> freaks? Is it a reaction to the endless shifting problems that they see,
> somewhat like bouncers in a topless bar losing interest in--well you get
> the idea.)
> Luckily, I have a pre-publication copy of Jobst Brandt's "The Left-Hand
> Thumb Shifter" (Huffy Press, 12th edition, 2005, $49.95). It counseled
> pre-tensioning the triple-ring shifter by rotating its honkin' big cross-
> head screw clockwise "until the handlebar begins to yield locally."
> The shifter now seems much improved, but woe to those who forgo the
> services of the local bike shop!
> Carl Fogel
A dead calm this evening promised a fast ride from the Fury RoadMaster.
With no traffic, I began my second lap around the City Park and there
ahead of me was an unsuspecting rider wearing a luminous green shirt and
cruising along on a touring bike.
Roger Bannister had someone to pace him when he broke the four-minute
barrier, so here was my opportunity!
Straining after him like a basset hound pursuing a trotting greyhound, I
drew closer and began to wonder what to do next. I hear that tactics are
terribly important in racing.
There's a current thread debating the etiquette of uninvited wheel-
suckers. Normally my position is that they're jerks. But what, I
wondered, if drafting this fellow would improve my time? My goal is to
break twelve minutes, and I'd hate to miss it out of mere courtesy and
common sense.
Screw it, I decided, and chose the other side of the road, slowly
drawing ahead of the fellow in the green shirt as we pedalled past the
zoo. He looked a bit surprised--most people do, for some odd reason--but
he obviously had no idea that he'd been in a race.
So this is what Lance feels like! Inspired, I pedalled like a demon for
the next mile and ended up wheezing like a bellows with a new Fury
RoadMaster record,
11:52 for 4.06 miles.
Now that I've got my breath back, I'm wondering about the merits of
pacelines, drafting, and wheel-sucking for typical
rec.bicycles.tech posters.
Do pacelines at this level produce faster times or merely less
tired riders?
As I understand it, a paceline offers little advantage climbing because
the riders aren't going fast enough to benefit from drafting.
Nor should a paceline improve speeds on a descent steep enough that
riders are coasting. Everyone behind the lead rider has to brake, yet
they can go no faster than he's going if they pull out into the wind
and pass him.
On the flats, the paceline goes no faster than whoever is pedalling in
front. The idea may be that the leader can strain and go faster than
normal for a few minutes, with everyone following keeping up with him at
a lazier pace, but I'm curious how this works out in real life.
What strikes me as a potential drawback is that the leader has no
competition to spur him on. No matter what he does, the paceline behind
him should be able to keep up in his draft, putting out far less
effort. It seems more like a strategy for conserving energy than for
inspiring effort.
(I have in mind the 2001 Tour de France, when most of the field on the
8th day slowed down so much in a cold rain that some disgruntled no-
nameriders broke away and finished half an hour and ten miles ahead of
Lance and the rest, who were busy watching each other and maintaining
their pacelines.)
So here's one way to frame the question. Given four average riders from
rec.bicycles.tech, as opposed to death-or-glory pros, what results would
you predict and why for a flat century ride with the four riders going
individually with no drafting, the same four riders going in a paceline,
and the same four riders on one of those long-vanished four-man tandems?
Apart from the physics, what kind of psychological benefits and
drawbacks would you expect? Who's faster, who's more tired?
Carl Fogel
--
Sheldon Brown
> As I understand it, a paceline offers little advantage climbing because
> the riders aren't going fast enough to benefit from drafting.
Once, on TOSRV East (Tour Of Scenic Rural Vermont) I broke up one of my
clubmates on the climb of Terrible Mountain.
He as slogging up this climb in his granny gear at 3 mph.
I crept past him in my granny gear at 3 1/2 mph, and as I drew next to
him I said "[gasp]...[pant]...Wanna draft?...[wheeze]"
Sheldon "Always Glad To Help" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Military conscription is the worst form of slavery. |
| A more enlightened age will consider it a War crime. |
+-------------------------------------------------------+
Rick Onanian
<usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>RoadMaster record,
>11:52 for 4.06 miles.
Wow.
>Do pacelines at this level produce faster times or merely less
>tired riders?
Faster times and less tired riders. I've recently started riding
with a group one day per week, and we do some faux-pacelining. It's
amazing how much difference it makes.
Consider that less tired riders can, in fact, ride faster when they
pull.
>As I understand it, a paceline offers little advantage climbing because
>the riders aren't going fast enough to benefit from drafting.
Again, I'm surprised at how well it works even at lower speeds.
>Nor should a paceline improve speeds on a descent steep enough that
>riders are coasting. Everyone behind the lead rider has to brake, yet
>they can go no faster than he's going if they pull out into the wind
>and pass him.
Well, the limiting factor being aerodynamic drag on the leader, a
minor increase will be realized. The leader benefits a little bit
from the rider behind him filling the vacuum.
>On the flats, the paceline goes no faster than whoever is pedalling in
>front. The idea may be that the leader can strain and go faster than
>normal for a few minutes, with everyone following keeping up with him at
>a lazier pace, but I'm curious how this works out in real life.
A proper paceline doesn't have a leader in front for a few minutes.
It is, instead, constantly rotating. When the previous leader clears
the rear wheel of the current leader, the current leader breaks off
and the next leader pulls.
I've never been in a proper paceline.
In our faux-pacelines, with leaders pulling for minutes at a time,
we've realized new records (at least, some of us). The leader begins
his pull well-rested, allowing him to go faster without having to
"strain".
>What strikes me as a potential drawback is that the leader has no
>competition to spur him on. No matter what he does, the paceline behind
>him should be able to keep up in his draft, putting out far less
>effort. It seems more like a strategy for conserving energy than for
>inspiring effort.
It is most certainly exactly that, but the result isn't lowered
output; rather, better output for less effort. Further, the leader
should not have "competition to spur him on"; he should attempt to
provide the same effort as the previous leader. On level land with
even wind, that means he should provide the same speed. If he feels
like it's making him tired more quickly, his turn at the front
should be shorter.
>So here's one way to frame the question. Given four average riders from
>rec.bicycles.tech, as opposed to death-or-glory pros, what results would
>you predict and why for a flat century ride with the four riders going
>individually with no drafting, the same four riders going in a paceline,
>and the same four riders on one of those long-vanished four-man tandems?
Solo: I'd be lucky to complete the century.
Paceline: I'd be happy at the end, with a reasonable average speed.
Tandem: I hope David Reuteler the bean-eating vegetarian rider isn't
in front of me.
I imagine the tandem could be faster than the paceline. The riders
are closer, and the aerodynamic drag of the tandem bicycle itself is
probably better than the sum of the individual bikes.
>Apart from the physics, what kind of psychological benefits and
>drawbacks would you expect? Who's faster, who's more tired?
The soloists are slower and more tired. I don't know about the other
two groups.
The psychological bit is a good point. Having somebody to follow can
make you forget to worry about the hill, the wind, or how you feel.
--
Rick Onanian
ZeeExSixAre
> for
> the next mile and ended up wheezing like a bellows with a new Fury
> RoadMaster record,
> 11:52 for 4.06 miles.
Wow! I'm impressed!
I rode my 40-lb Walmart MTB when I was 15 or so during Hurricane Mitch (for
wind benefit) or something... I managed to do 11:45 for 3.75 miles. But
with your 24-in wheels and overly-low gearing, it must have been interesting
;)
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Corinthians,
When I became a man, I gave up my childish ways.
This is the Men's Fury RoadMaster, with full-sized 26-inch
mountain-bike wheels of indescribable rapidity:
or
You must be looking at the Boy's model, which has bashful
24-inch wheels:
or
St. Paul
ZeeExSixAre
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
carl...@comcast.net
<phil_leeIHEA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>What's the gearing on it? It should be around 22-44t x 14-28t, no?
Dear Phil,
Pardon my oily typing--I just counted the filthy teeth on
all those sprockets.
The Fury RoadMaster's mighty front triple-chain-ring
rejoices in 48-38-28 teeth, while its indomitable five hind
gears run the gamut from 14 teeth to 17, 20, 24, and 28.
A spoke ruler slapped across its pedals while it lay
helpless on its back, naked tires waving in the air, showed
roughly 165 mm cranks, which surprised me--I'd have thought
that they were shorter.
Plugging the numbers into my spreadsheet, I found that at 20
to 24 mph, the Fury RoadMaster with 14x28 gearing, a 165 mm
crank, and 2073 mm tires demands 75 to 91 rpm from its
passenger, rather higher than my normal glacial cadence of
only 50 to 60 rpm on a touring bike with 53 x11 gearing, a
175 mm crank, and 2124 mm tires.
The overall ratio between the circle described by the Fury
RoadMaster's rear tire and its pedals is only 6.8 to 1,
while my touring bike has a ratio of 9.3 to 1.
So the Fury's highest gear, coupled with its smaller tire
and crank, rolls it only about as far as a touring bike's 53
x 15 gear.
I'd like higher gears, but the 10 to 17-year-old target
market is probably perfectly happy spinning around the
neighborhood, whooping like banshees.
Sunday, a visiting friend emboldened me to take the Fury for
its maiden voyage around my normal 15.25-mile route. We
weren't pushing things, but the Fury completed the loop in a
respectable 58:51 on a breezy morning, about twelve minutes
slower than the average for the touring bike.
It seemed reluctant to climb the ridge west of town, which
is about 400 feet high, but then it's a full-figured bicycle
compared to my touring bike. Heading back down, it achieved
a maximum of 38.8 mph, which is about what my touring bike
manages on a calm day.
When I took it for its normal ride that evening, it seemed
pleased with itself, but happier on the flats. If its paws
were sore, it didn't complain.
Carl Fogel
ZeeExSixAre
> its maiden voyage around my normal 15.25-mile route. We
> weren't pushing things, but the Fury completed the loop in a
> respectable 58:51 on a breezy morning, about twelve minutes
> slower than the average for the touring bike.
Still fast!
> It seemed reluctant to climb the ridge west of town, which
> is about 400 feet high, but then it's a full-figured bicycle
> compared to my touring bike. Heading back down, it achieved
> a maximum of 38.8 mph, which is about what my touring bike
> manages on a calm day.
39 mph shows you have a lot of trust in that bike ;)
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Phil,
Occasional comments like that puzzle me. The friend behind
me mentioned that he doesn't like to go that fast on his
bike because it feels "squirrelly" at such speeds.
Yet Pueblo's answer to the Stelvio Pass is a smoothly paved
two-lane rural highway with a decent shoulder posted at 65
mph. You could land a light airplane on most of the descent,
which has gentle quarter-mile curves, but no side roads or
potholes. There aren't even any trees until you reach the
bottom.The closest thing to an obstruction is the happy
brown or black prairie tarantula wandering across the road
in early fall or a startled lizard scuttling off into the
brush.
I suppose that 39 mph is more exciting where there's
traffic, side roads, driveways, potholes, and trees, but
it's routine on this pleasant stretch of road. With a
wonderful tailwind, I've reached 54 mph.
Neither the Fury RoadMaster nor my trusty Schwinn touring
bike make any fuss at such speeds. They don't twitch or
swerve or rumble. I read the posts here about "shimmy" and
assume that some bikes do indeed behave oddly, but I've
never had it happen to me. The bikes just roll faster.
Here's the clincher: this section is so smooth and pleasant
that I've had flat front and rear tires and lost all
pressure by the time that I stopped without any real
trouble. Hell, you could probably land light planes on much
of the road, if they didn't mind the slope.
With some real curves or places that need braking, I expect
that such speeds would be quite different, but what I'm
doing is about as exciting as taking a shortcut down the
beginner's slope at an uncrowded ski resort.
Carl Fogel
ZeeExSixAre
I come from Florida... the biggest hill nearby we have is probably 100 feet
in elevation.
> me mentioned that he doesn't like to go that fast on his
> bike because it feels "squirrelly" at such speeds.
"Iron grip" most likely...
> I suppose that 39 mph is more exciting where there's
> traffic, side roads, driveways, potholes, and trees, but
> it's routine on this pleasant stretch of road. With a
> wonderful tailwind, I've reached 54 mph.
I wish I could attain those speeds, hehe.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
dvt
> Now that I've got my breath back, I'm wondering about the merits of
> pacelines, drafting, and wheel-sucking for typical
> rec.bicycles.tech posters.
> Do pacelines at this level produce faster times or merely less
> tired riders?
Could be either. One example is the group ride I did tonight. The average
speed was *much* higher than I would have maintained on my own.
> As I understand it, a paceline offers little advantage climbing because
> the riders aren't going fast enough to benefit from drafting.
Yep.
> Nor should a paceline improve speeds on a descent steep enough that
> riders are coasting. Everyone behind the lead rider has to brake, yet
> they can go no faster than he's going if they pull out into the wind
> and pass him.
Not quite true. The following riders get a boost from the draft, and they
can use that momentum to pass the leader. Each rider continues that trend,
raising the average speed slightly.
> On the flats, the paceline goes no faster than whoever is pedalling in
> front. The idea may be that the leader can strain and go faster than
> normal for a few minutes, with everyone following keeping up with him at
> a lazier pace, but I'm curious how this works out in real life.
Depends on the group's goals.
The person going to the front (aka pulling) has to get around the prior leader.
That can be quite a challenge sometimes, and it's peer pressure that gets
a rider to push himself hard enough to get around.
> What strikes me as a potential drawback is that the leader has no
> competition to spur him on.
In friendly competition, you're wrong. Peer pressure can be quite powerful.
In serious competition, some riders are paid to pull their team leader to
the finish.
--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu
carlfogel
Since the Fury RoadMaster is used solely for serious testing purposes,
not idle pleasure, its rugged kickstand was removed to reduce weight and
to exercise my 8mm allen key.
Curiously, kickstands are almost ignored on rec.bicycles.tech, where
posters are willing to argue about almost anything.
Performance does not even sell a kickstand.
Nashbar offers a single sleek, handsome kickstand for $5.
BikeToolsEtc offers two kickstand models, one for $4 and the other for
$9. (They also offer a $26 tool for working on $5 kickstands, a good
example of the bicycle industry's practical attitude.)
Why have kickstands vanished in the U.S.? Is this a sign of how bicycles
have changed from practical transportation to mere pleasure? Is it that
bicycles are now always stored inside? Are they always leaned against
something solid and locked to it? Are bike racks so common that there's
no need for a kickstand?
Cost doesn't seem to be the culprit. Only inexpensive bicycles like the
Fury RoadMaster include kickstands. The more expensive the bicycle, the
less likely it is to sport a kickstand.
It's not that a kickstand is useless. Now that it's nearly summer, I
often see bicycles lying on the ground next to the asphalt path along
the Arkansas River, laid down by riders impatient to get a closer look
at the turtles in the ponds. Other bicycles sprawl the highway
shoulders, where there's nothing to lean them against when a few riders
stop to swarm around a mechanical problem or a flat tire.
(I scorn such practical parking techniques and simply flip my touring
bike upside-down onto its seat and handlebars whenever I stop, a
practice that I gather outrages some posters, but which I find quite
convenient.)
Am I mistaken about the kickstand vanishing? What percentage of
rec.bicycles.tech posters will admit to using kickstands?
Carl Fogel
--
Mark South
news:QX1zc.1634$Hc3....@fe05.usenetserver.com...
> Curiously, kickstands are almost ignored on rec.bicycles.tech, where
> posters are willing to argue about almost anything.
No they're not!
> Performance does not even sell a kickstand.
Kickstands are not about performance. Try Convenience.
> Nashbar offers a single sleek, handsome kickstand for $5.
Very broadminded of them.
> BikeToolsEtc offers two kickstand models, one for $4 and the other for
> $9. (They also offer a $26 tool for working on $5 kickstands, a good
> example of the bicycle industry's practical attitude.)
The mind boggles.
> Why have kickstands vanished in the U.S.? Is this a sign of how bicycles
> have changed from practical transportation to mere pleasure? Is it that
> bicycles are now always stored inside? Are they always leaned against
> something solid and locked to it? Are bike racks so common that there's
> no need for a kickstand?
In Switzerland nearly all new standard model bikes include kickstands.
I recently helped a lady of my acquaintance buy an inexpensive commuter bike.
It came with mudguards/fenders, dynamo and lights, rack, bell and bottom bracket
kickstand all fitted and included.
> Cost doesn't seem to be the culprit. Only inexpensive bicycles like the
> Fury RoadMaster include kickstands. The more expensive the bicycle, the
> less likely it is to sport a kickstand.
Weight matters more at higher prices.
> (I scorn such practical parking techniques and simply flip my touring
> bike upside-down onto its seat and handlebars whenever I stop, a
> practice that I gather outrages some posters, but which I find quite
> convenient.)
Blatant troll for Jobst.
> Am I mistaken about the kickstand vanishing? What percentage of
> rec.bicycles.tech posters will admit to using kickstands?
In contrast to Switzerland, in England kickstands are useless because a bike
must be left locked to railings or a street fixture with a huge U-lock, so the
stand is redundant.
--
Mark South: World Citizen, Net Denizen
carlfogel
So far, no flat tires, no broken spokes, and nothing busted on the Fury
RoadMaster after 124 rides along a flat 4.06 mile course and
approximately 503.44 miles.
(We won't dwell on the recent day when the absent-minded pilot found
himself taking an extra lap in the park.)
It pedals along placidly, averaging 12:50 per ride and 18.98 mph.
The small and middle chain rings are presumably in the same condition
that they left the factory, much like the four largest cogs.
The tires show no obvious wear, but tires two inches wide should be able
to support my bulk without complaint for quite a while.
The only striking sign of decay is the rust on the motorcycle style
cable adjusters on the brakes. For all I know, Campagnolo cable
adjusters would rust, too, if they were made for the brake lever end of
the cable.
For some reason, I find myself wondering about my trusty steed's
undergarments. I've seen the spoke nipples of touring bicycles covered
modestly with rubber rim strips, stylishly with sticky tape, and even
with stiff plastic bands resembling strapping material with the ends heat-
welded together.
Of course, I could deflate a tire and peek inside, but I'm not sure that
a gentleman does that sort of thing.
In general, how are spoke nipples covered when they come from the
factory? Are there economic reasons for cloth tape versus rubber bands?
Does one method protect better than the other or last longer? What do
high-end bicycles use, as opposed to price-sensitive vehicles?
Boxers or briefs? Rubber-rim-strip or cloth-tape or what?
Votes for commando will be considered frivolous.
Carl Fogel
--
R15757
<< So far, no flat tires, no broken spokes, and nothing busted on the Fury
RoadMaster after 124 rides along a flat 4.06 mile course and
approximately 503.44 miles. ...>>
Carl,
I defy you to climb some hills on that thing.
Robert
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Robert,
Too late--that's already been done.
On the eve it was first acquired, the Fury RoadMaster
whizzed down what's known as the waterworks hill, a short
S-bend descent from the south-bank bluffs down a gully where
my touring bicycle routinely reaches 35 mph for a
quarter-mile roll-out to the nature trail along the Arkansas
River. Even with cautious riding, the Fury RoadMaster
attained a respectable maximum speed in excess of 30 mph
according to the same model of speedometer used on the road
bike. Toiling back up this short, steep grade requires lower
gears on any bike.
On the last Sunday in May, I took the Fury for my normal
15-mile ride because a friend was visiting. From the foot of
the 2-mile wide dam across the Arkansas to the top of the
ridge west of town is a climb of about 400 feet to 5200
feet, which the Fury achieved in its lower gears, somewhat
more slowly than my touring bike. Downhill, it posted the
same sort of speed as the touring bike, reaching 38.8 mph.
The first fourteen miles were pedalled at a somewhat casual
speed, my friend being from sea-level and accustomed to a
bicycle ride every two weeks or so. A Tour de France
sprint-style finish in the last mile from the final speed
hump in the city park produced an overall time of 59:27,
less 36 seconds lost earlier at that damned traffic light.
(My touring bike is averaging 47:20 this year for the same
15.25 miles without any visitors to distract it.)
Since then, the Fury's lower gears have remained untouched,
but it eyes the bluffs with the same complacency as a basset
hound in the basement who hears the refrigerator opening
upstairs and glances at the stairs--steep, but scarcely
impossible.
For that matter, my friend earned a Boy Scout merit badge
over thirty years ago by riding a bicycle less advanced than
the 15-speed Fury RoadMaster the 26 miles from Pueblo to
Beulah and back. You start around 4700 feet and end up
around 6400, with lots of roller-coaster hills and two
beastly steep climbs up out of canyons on the way back down.
Being older and wiser, he re-lived his youth on this visit
by just riding the last half back down from Beulah on a
borrowed road bike.
Carl Fogel
Tom Sherman
> ...
> In general, how are spoke nipples covered when they come from the
> factory? Are there economic reasons for cloth tape versus rubber bands?
> Does one method protect better than the other or last longer? What do
> high-end bicycles use, as opposed to price-sensitive vehicles?
>
> Boxers or briefs? Rubber-rim-strip or cloth-tape or what?...
Quality wheels (and wheel builders) use Velox Fond de Jante cloth rim tape.
<http://www.rivendellbicycles.com/images/catpics/18-044.jpg>.
--
Tom Sherman – Quad City Area
meb
> snip (We won't dwell on the recent day when the absent-minded pilot
> found himself taking an extra lap in the park.)
> Carl Fogel
It's clear the joy of riding a Fury induces the rider into pursuing
extra enjoyment. (Like Lays Potato Chips, betcha can't eat just one)
--
Benjamin Weiner
within a paean to his bicycle-shaped machine:
> For some reason, I find myself wondering about my trusty steed's
> undergarments. I've seen the spoke nipples of touring bicycles covered
> modestly with rubber rim strips, stylishly with sticky tape, and even
> with stiff plastic bands resembling strapping material with the ends heat-
> welded together.
> Of course, I could deflate a tire and peek inside, but I'm not sure that
> a gentleman does that sort of thing.
> In general, how are spoke nipples covered when they come from the
> factory? Are there economic reasons for cloth tape versus rubber bands?
> Does one method protect better than the other or last longer? What do
> high-end bicycles use, as opposed to price-sensitive vehicles?
> Boxers or briefs? Rubber-rim-strip or cloth-tape or what?
Gentlemen do not _inquire_ into bicycle wheels' undergarments.
Such rubbery, nipple-covering details are best left to chimneysweeps,
mechanics and other plebes.
Rubber strips are used for single-wall rims, where the strip
directly overlays the spoke nipples. Cloth tape rimstrips are
used on double-wall rims, where the nipples are recessed.
Plastic bands are used on double-wall rims, but many brands
have a reputation for cracking. Strapping tape is occasionally
substituted as an expedient but is often unsatisfactory and
leaves a sticky, undignified residue.
Rick Onanian
<usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>The small and middle chain rings are presumably in the same condition
>that they left the factory, much like the four largest cogs.
How about the large ring, and the smaller cogs? You don't report
anything about them.
>For some reason, I find myself wondering about my trusty steed's
>undergarments. I've seen the spoke nipples of touring bicycles covered
>modestly with rubber rim strips, stylishly with sticky tape, and even
>with stiff plastic bands resembling strapping material with the ends heat-
>welded together.
>
>Of course, I could deflate a tire and peek inside, but I'm not sure that
>a gentleman does that sort of thing.
Talk dirty to your Fury, Carl. Get it excited about the project.
Then, maybe, you'll be allowed to view it's rim strip.
>In general, how are spoke nipples covered when they come from the
>factory? Are there economic reasons for cloth tape versus rubber bands?
>Does one method protect better than the other or last longer? What do
>high-end bicycles use, as opposed to price-sensitive vehicles?
- Stiff plastic bands resembling strapping material, with ends
heat-welded together: Only on the cheapest of department store
bikes. Probably pretty effective. Not reusable if you need to access
the holes underneath it, though. I imagine that in some situations
the sharp edge could cut the tube, too.
- Rubber: Inexpensive, found on "better" department store bikes and
OEM on many or even most LBS bikes. Probably the most common. Works
fine, usually. Rots out in a few years and must be replaced.
- Sticky tape: Only time I've heard of this is as a home-brew
solution to availability, price, or durability issues with other
options. Duct tape or electric tape is often reported. I used duct
tape in a roadside emergency* over a sharp spoke hole that cut
through my rubber rim strip.
- Cloth: Most expensive option (still only a couple dollars). Most
durable. Handles sharp spoke holes and very high pressures with
ease. Washes your windows, masturbates you, and saves the world,
too. This is what went on after my roadside duct-tape emergency*.
I've got another roll lashed to my rack for the next time the rear
tire is off, but failed to remember it when the rear tire was
recently off.
*: Rode very fast for awhile. Stopped for a few minutes as other
cyclists loaded their bikes into their cars. Standing there holding
the bike still, "PSSSSHHHHHHHH!!" went the front tire. Sure glad it
didn't happen at speed.
--
Rick Onanian