Phil Wood BB -- Is it really worth it?
Wasatch5k
get a UN72/73 for ~$20 on sale, is it worth it to splurge on the Phil
Wood? Do the Phil Woods have user replaceable bearings?
Thanks,
nc
jcq...@yahoo.com
weapon...
Mark Janeba
> Lifetime guarantee, and will survive a direct hit by a tactical nuclear
> weapon...
Also, the Phil product is available to fit a wide variety of frames and
cranks. I assume this is not equally true of the Shimano BB - maybe
different frames, but I assume only available for a shimano-taper crank.
Mark
daveornee
them; but not user replaceable. Phil Wood is beautiful to look at, but
I don't think you will get 5X miles from it.
I used to be a big Phil Wood fan until I had a BB failure mid-tour.
David Ornee, Western Springs, IL
--
daveornee
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Better bearings and tha ability to replace them make it one of my
favorites. The UN-73, now with integrated right cup, cannot be
converted from ITL to BSC and vice versa.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Plus a zillion different spindle lengths in both tapers, JIS and
ISO..great BB that I have had on my poor wx fixie for two years now.
philcycles
What makes it better? I've been using one for more than 30 years. How's
that.
Phil Brown
Wasatch5k
Phil Wood? How does the Phil Wood compair to the American Classic that
has USER replacable bearings?
-nc
Robin Hubert
You need special tools. Rarely, an LBS has them (we do). Or, you get
to live without your bike while your bb is en route to/from PW.
I hear all kinds of stories about Phil Wood components. I have used
them. I have many customers who use(d) them. It seems to me the people
who get all kinds of life out of them either a)don't ride much or b)
don't ride much in bad weather (I'm sure to get flamed here). My first
experience with a PW bb lasted a couple years and the thing pissed away
(That's about the life I see out of UN-7x's, frankly). That's before I
learned I could service the cart. bearings. Nonetheless, it seems the
average user gets a couple years out of the bb bearings and they have to
be replaced. The neat thing about this is that the bearings and
replacement cost more than a new UN-7x
(http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='1797-01' -
that's $40 worth of bearings plus the labor!). Even funnier is that,
from my personal experience as well as many years in the bike shop, a
Shimano UN-xx bottom bracket lasts as long as the bearings in PW bb.
You must rely on loc-tite to keep PW bb's in place because, if you
torque them enough to keep them from loosening, the bearings bind and
fail quickly. THIS does not sound like an intelligent design, to me.
Also, you have to be skeptical of anyone who markets "waterproof"
grease, and claims their air dam seals keep water out. A very wet ride
proved that to me when I dumped the water out of my "sealed" hubs, and
found rusty grease in my bearings on both bb and hubs.
Their only saving grace, IMHO, is that they offer a wonderful range of
spindle lengths/configurations for obsolete cranks, and also threaded
hubs for those wanting to keep that 120mm spaced frame alive.
Are you willing to pay for polished bottom bracket? I wonder how much
that adds to the cost ....
So, while I have nothing against PW products, I also have nothing for
them, as long as low-cost, equivalent durability alternatives exist.
Robin Hubert
Zog The Undeniable
Also consider a TA Axix for about 1/3 the price, if you have ISO cranks.
It is very lightweight, high quality and has user-replaceable
cartridge bearings which are easy to get to. The alloy used for the
lockring is a bit soft if you don't have the exact TA fitting tool, so I
used an old steel Shimano lockring (I have the right 6-dog tool from the
old days). The cups go in with a modern Shimano cartridge BB splined tool.
There is no internal sleeve with the Axix so you should have a drain
hole in the bottom of the BB shell. A Ti axle version is available if
you are svelte and rich.
Donald Gillies
First, it's a component system which means its reusable.
One thing that people often do is to take a cheapo asian cartridge
bottom bracket and use the phil wood cup-retainers to install it in,
for example, a swiss BB shell or a french BB shell or any BB shell
(even raleigh 26 TPI.)
http://www.philwood.com/Price%20List/BottomBracketCups&Tools.pdf
I think it's a joke that it's a component system but the one part that
wears the fastest is not user serviceable. Hmm, plenty of other
bottom brackets have replaceable sealed bearings, but Phil just wasn't
bright enough to figure out how to make it happen ... sheesh ...
You know, house prices in silicon valley (where Phil Wood is located)
haven't gone down much in the past 30 years, and he hasn't struggled
to improve the versatility or lower the maintenance costs of his
bottom brackets. I wonder why ...
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA
Chalo
>
> The neat thing about this is that the bearings and
> replacement cost more than a new UN-7x
> (http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='1797-01' -
> that's $40 worth of bearings plus the labor!). Even funnier is that,
> from my personal experience as well as many years in the bike shop, a
> Shimano UN-xx bottom bracket lasts as long as the bearings in PW bb.
It's worth noting that when you replace a unit-construction cartridge
BB, you get a new spindle, presumably without metal fatigue.
Chalo Colina
Gary Jacobson
"Zog The Undeniable" <hroth...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42c6e945.0@entanet...
> Also consider a TA Axix for about 1/3 the price, if you have ISO cranks.
The two Axix BB spindles I have are JIS.
I recently posted a query about estimating the proper length ISO spindle
after determining the "proper " length of a JIS spindle to use with an ISO
crank. (You kindly responded to that query).
Peter White who sells TA stuff said, after he inspected the ISO crank in
question and inserted my Axix spindle into it that the spindle was JIS.
The ISO crank is a Mavic mtn.bike crank, or "VVT".
I do recall hear that TA changed their spindles from ISO to JIS without
notifying dealers or consumers.
I hope there are still Axix ISO spindles around. I'd like to get one.
Gary Jacobson
Rosendale, NY
Kenny
you installed the PW incorrectly you should expect a shortened BB
lifespan. I installed the PW into my Italian threaded BB shell. Even
though I only had one PW "tool" to tighten the cups down, it was still
easy to do. I never needed loctite or had to torque the living bejesus
out it. I've used PW BBs for only 3 years, but they do seem
indestructible. I highly recommend the PW BB. Are they worth a hundred
bucks? As the saying goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Robin Hubert wrote:
>
> You need special tools. Rarely, an LBS has them (we do). Or, you get
> to live without your bike while your bb is en route to/from PW.
I guess unless you have a spare, like most do.
>
> I hear all kinds of stories about Phil Wood components. I have used
> them. I have many customers who use(d) them. It seems to me the people
> who get all kinds of life out of them either a)don't ride much or b)
> don't ride much in bad weather (I'm sure to get flamed here).
As I mentioned, I use Phil hubs and BB on my wet weather only, winter
ride fixie and have no problems with either. I ride a 'little bit' and
as I said, only in the wet.
My first
> experience with a PW bb lasted a couple years and the thing pissed away
> (That's about the life I see out of UN-7x's, frankly). That's before I
> learned I could service the cart. bearings. Nonetheless, it seems the
> average user gets a couple years out of the bb bearings and they have to
> be replaced. The neat thing about this is that the bearings and
> replacement cost more than a new UN-7x
> (http://www.lickbike.com/productpage.aspx?PART_NUM_SUB='1797-01' -
> that's $40 worth of bearings plus the labor!). Even funnier is that,
> from my personal experience as well as many years in the bike shop, a
> Shimano UN-xx bottom bracket lasts as long as the bearings in PW bb.
>
> You must rely on loc-tite to keep PW bb's in place because, if you
> torque them enough to keep them from loosening, the bearings bind and
> fail quickly. THIS does not sound like an intelligent design, to me.
Not true. I have installed many and have never used loctite. grease and
two tools, installing them TIGHT, like on my Moots. No binding, very
smooth, it doesn't come loose.
Jay Beattie
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
I backed-out a Phil Italian BB because I scrimped on the Loctite.
Maybe grease is enought for an English BB, but not an Italian -- and
since it it is the right ring that backs out, it is hard doing on the
road repairs since the ring is tucked behind the crank spider. -- Jay
Beattie.
russell...@yahoo.com
Aren't there just two tapers for cranks? Shimano and Campagnolo.
Everyone except Campagnolo uses the same taper as Shimano. So Shimano
bottom brackets fit pretty much the same cranksets as Phil Wood with
the exception of Campagnolo cranksets. Shimano and Phil Wood spindles
come in a variety of lengths. Both use sealed cartridge bearings.
Phil Wood does have different cup threading for English, Italian,
French, Swiss, etc. Shimano only has English and Italian. Since the
vast majority of bicycles in the US have either English or Italian
threading, Phil Wood only has an advantage to people restoring/fixing
unusual bikes.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
I have used Phils on Italian threads as well, w/o loctite. Ya just need
two tools to get it tight. no big deal.
Frank Miles
<jcq...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Lifetime guarantee, and will survive a direct hit by a tactical nuclear
>weapon...
That's what I thought, when I bought mine (~25 years ago?). The first
time the bearings went bad, they fixed it for free. Wow! I was happy.
The second time they went bad, they charged a fairly minimal price ($10)
for the repair. The third time, it was ~$28. The fourth time, I got
a new BB.
The newer ones with the field-replaceable bearings may be good, but I
no longer think much of their "lifetime guarantee".
Yes, I've ridden a fair amount, but not really beyond what many in this NG
have done. It's probably all that riding in the rain...
-frank
--
rickw...@earthlink.net
just starting to consider it broken in and ready for serious riding.
I have no trouble with their warranties, and I have known them to bend
over backward to help those with failures on tour. Just 2-3 years back
there was a local guy touring Madagascar who had a failure, and PW
expedited replacement parts out to Madagascar to get him back on the
road.
I have not had to take my PW BB in for service, yet. But I took my
(1979) threaded PW rear hub back in 6 months ago for its first service.
Bearing service was $25, the axle replacement was covered under
warranty. That was a 25 year old hub, with lots of miles ... and they
still replaced the axle at no charge. How many 25 year old hubs have
any parts covered under warranty? I expect I will have similar service
when the BB needs to go in, or my FSA or FSC hub.
- rick
Jay Beattie
<rickw...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1120592575....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Assuming you bought your hub in 1979, it had a lifetime warranty
on everything, including bearings -- but Phil changed the
warranty unilaterally about 15 years ago, or maybe more. I just
remember being pissed off, because when I bought my first set of
PW hubs in '75, I figured lifetime warranty meant my lifetime and
not until someone decided otherwise. -- Jay Beattie.
bfd
cups not available anywhere else. For example, remember Suntour Superbe
Pro? Those cranks are still available on the market at Rivendell and
others. However, Suntour Superbe had its own taper spindle that is
different than Campy's ISO or Shimano's JIS. Thus, you either have to
find a Suntour Superbe bb, good luck with that, or get a Phil.
I recently bought a used Phil magnesium/ti bb for $80. The previous
owner claimed it had "less than 2500" miles. Smooth and extreme light,
we will see how durable it is. Then again, Phil is located in SJ, about
an hour drive from me!