Wheel truing
psycholist
truing. I don't build wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good tool
for truing up my wheels when they need it. I live in an area with very
rough roads and they take a beating.
In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap
product and couldn't produce a good, true wheel. I don't want to spring
$160 for a Park Professional stand, but I'm wondering if a Park "consumer"
stand is worth the $79 most of the catalogs want for that. Or, is there
something less expensive that will help me do a quality truing job?
Thanks,
Bob C.
Richard Ney
With patience, you could "produce a good, true wheel" while it's still
mounted in the dropouts; so I'm at a loss to understand what the Minoura
stand didn't do for you. What do you need that it and a wheel gauge
don't provide?
KBH
actually preferred it to the Park. If all you're doing is truing, use your
brake pads, or rig up something with a popsicle stick on your bike.
"psycholist" <psych...@wctel.net> wrote in message
news:b99shi$1hco$1...@news3.infoave.net...
kh6...@pe.net
: I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic wheel
: Thanks,
: Bob C.
It is not the stand that produces the quality wheel build. It is the
builders experience. The truing stand is just a tool to make the job
a bit easier.
--------------------------------
Bob Masse' kh6...@PE.NET
--------------------------------
Gary Young
don't like about the Minoura stand? I find it frustratingly flexible,
but still capable of building up a round and true wheel. I doubt the
Park consumer stand is much better, although it does come with a
dishing tool.
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do
> basic wheel truing. I don't build wheels and I'm not going to. I
> just want a good tool for truing up my wheels when they need it. I
> live in an area with very rough roads and they take a beating.
Rough roads do not make untrue wheels. At best the destroy rims if
the tire n=bottoms, usually causing a snake bite flat as well. I
suspect your wheels are poorly built if that is your experience. I
don't understand your protest of "I don't build wheels and I'm not
going to." Could you explain this comment?
> In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a
> cheap product and couldn't produce a good, true wheel. I don't want
> to spring $160 for a Park Professional stand, but I'm wondering if a
> Park "consumer" stand is worth the $79 most of the catalogs want for
> that. Or, is there something less expensive that will help me do a
> quality truing job?
I built wheels for years using my bicycle and got great results.
Because I fixed and built wheels for some of my riding companions, a
couple of them gave me truing stands that they had a nd were not
using. I just use it to hold wheels and sight across a probe. As
with many things, it's the operator that counts the most. Build your
own wheels but learn about it first and you may change your mind about
wheel building and bumpy roads.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
Palo Alto CA
Mike S.
"KBH" <kb...@hollasch.com> wrote in message
news:RN_ta.40071$pa5....@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...
> I've built many a very true and durable wheel with the Minoura stand -
> actually preferred it to the Park. If all you're doing is truing, use
your
> brake pads, or rig up something with a popsicle stick on your bike.
>
straight. Its not the stand, its the wrench.
Mike
Russell Yim
are about as helpful to truing wheels as those chain cleaning gadgets
are to cleaning a chain...which is to say they don't function very well.
The wheel held in the dropouts, with the brake pads as guides is more
than adequate for the job of "basic" wheel truing, i.e. straight and
round enough to be more than servicable, with less than a millimeter's
worth of deviation. You don't need a dishing tool either...just flip the
wheel around in the frame, and measure any difference in position.
As others have stated, if you are having problems with your wheels
staying true, it is not because of bad roads, it is because of poorly
tensioned spokes...they're too loose, not balanced, not stress relieved,
etc.. A well built wheel, even one that get so-called heavy abuse,
pretty much never goes out of true.
Harris
> "KBH" <kb...@hollasch.com> wrote:
> > I've built many a very true and durable wheel with the Minoura stand -
> > actually preferred it to the Park. If all you're doing is truing, use
> your
> > brake pads, or rig up something with a popsicle stick on your bike.
> >
> I've got one of them Minoura stands that's so old, it won't even set up
> straight. Its not the stand, its the wrench.
Same here. Back around 1982 one of the MO outfits had a package deal
consisting of the Minoura stand, dishing tool, and "The Bicycle Wheel" all
for about $30! I've been using them all for 20+ years now.
Art Harris
Anthony Campbell
> I find that inexpensive wheel truing stands are much too unstable, and
> are about as helpful to truing wheels as those chain cleaning gadgets
> are to cleaning a chain...which is to say they don't function very well.
> The wheel held in the dropouts, with the brake pads as guides is more
> than adequate for the job of "basic" wheel truing, i.e. straight and
> round enough to be more than servicable, with less than a millimeter's
> worth of deviation. You don't need a dishing tool either...just flip the
> wheel around in the frame, and measure any difference in position.
>
[snip]
If you do want a dishing tool you can make your own; details on my web
site cycling page.
AC
--
<<|
| http://www.acampbell.org.uk/cycling/
_________ ,___o / \
__________ _\ <;_ / \ OCD Cycloclimbing
___________ (_)/ (_) / \ http://www.ocd.org.uk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Everett
wrote:
>I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic wheel
>truing. I don't build wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good tool
>for truing up my wheels when they need it. I live in an area with very
>rough roads and they take a beating.
>
>In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap
>product and couldn't produce a good, true wheel.
I've build a number of wheels and I don't own a truing stand nor
dishing tool. I build and true rears in the rear triangle of a bike
and fronts in an old fork which I mount in my work stand by the
steerer tube. I check dishing on a flat surface with a machinists
square.
John "It's a poor workman who blames his tools" Everett
jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3
Alex Rodriguez
>I want to find a decent stand or device or whatever I need to do basic wheel
>truing. I don't build wheels and I'm not going to. I just want a good tool
>for truing up my wheels when they need it. I live in an area with very
>rough roads and they take a beating.
A well built wheel does not need periodic truing unless you bottom out
and damage the rim. In which case you will need fatter tires or more air
in your tires.
>In the past, I bought a Minoura "consumer" truing stand. It was a cheap
>product and couldn't produce a good, true wheel.
How good a truing job you do has more to do with the mechanic than with
the stand. I owned the Minoura stand and it worked fine. The only bad
thing I could say about it is that it was lightweight and moved around
a bit more than I liked. If I had the space, I would have screwed it down
to a bench.
>I don't want to spring
>$160 for a Park Professional stand, but I'm wondering if a Park "consumer"
>stand is worth the $79 most of the catalogs want for that. Or, is there
>something less expensive that will help me do a quality truing job?
You can just flip your bike over and true on the bike. Just get a good
spoke wrench. I would also recommend getting "The Bicycle Wheel" by
Jobst Brandt. That way you can build good wheels that don't need truing
all the time.
-----------------
Alex __O
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)
Mike S.
"Harris" <aha...@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote in message
news:PO7ua.14035$io.3...@iad-read.news.verio.net...
Professional stand, but can't seem to find a reason to spend the $$.
Mike
KBH
the 'feelers' in infinitesimal increments by turning the knobs. I can not
only find a high spot, but the highest spot of the high spot very easily. I
find it is a bit flimsy, and the vertical truing mechanism is a bit
annoying, but the stand stays centered pretty well. I'm thinking about using
one of the holes on the base to bolt it to my workbench, or maybe a 2x8.
"Mike S." <mikeshaw2@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:qXaua.21420$eJ2.3412@fed1read07...
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
can be adjusted for different axle lengths, and a "feeler". As long as
it holds the wheel securlye and doesn't have a lot of flex or play,
it'll work.
I have the Minora Workman "Pro" and love it. I intend to get an
inexpensive dial indicator to mount on it so I won't have to deal with
the scraper/guage.
May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!
Chris
Chris'Z Corner
"The Website for the Common Bicyclist":
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
psycholist
> going to." Could you explain this comment?
Sure. I do basic maintenance on my bike. I keep it clean -- especially the
drivetrain. I keep it lubed where it needs to be. Mostly, I ride it ...
and ride it and ride it and ride it. But I have a job and a family. What
time I have to devote to my bike I spend riding it. And if I have time to
read a book, I have other books I'm WAY more interested in reading than The
Bicycle Wheel. No slam intended. That's just the way it is.
You said rough roads don't produce untrue wheels. WHAT? I know who you are
and that you're THE expert and all, but do you really mean to tell me that
riding high mileage on rough roads won't tend to cause a wheel to come out
of true faster than riding on smooth roads? That defies logic and reason.
As for what's wrong with my Minoura stand. First, I don't have it anymore.
It arrived with a device that you could use to make sure the stand was
properly aligned. It wasn't. It couldn't be adjusted. I bought it on
sale, so the catalog company wouldn't take it back. I didn't figure the way
to start getting a wheel true was to start with a device that was out of
true itself.
I posted a simple question. I should have known better than to expect
anyone in a newsgroup to be able to give a simple answer. Sheeeesh ...
y'all have WAY too much time on your hands.
Bob C.
<jobst....@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message
news:Z10ua.11960$JX2.7...@typhoon.sonic.net...
Mike S.
> "I don't build wheels and I'm not
> > going to." Could you explain this comment?
>
> Sure. I do basic maintenance on my bike. I keep it clean -- especially
the
> drivetrain. I keep it lubed where it needs to be. Mostly, I ride it ...
> and ride it and ride it and ride it. But I have a job and a family. What
> time I have to devote to my bike I spend riding it. And if I have time to
> read a book, I have other books I'm WAY more interested in reading than
The
> Bicycle Wheel. No slam intended. That's just the way it is.
>
> You said rough roads don't produce untrue wheels. WHAT? I know who you
are
> and that you're THE expert and all, but do you really mean to tell me
that
> riding high mileage on rough roads won't tend to cause a wheel to come out
> of true faster than riding on smooth roads? That defies logic and reason.
>
> As for what's wrong with my Minoura stand. First, I don't have it
anymore.
> It arrived with a device that you could use to make sure the stand was
> properly aligned. It wasn't. It couldn't be adjusted. I bought it on
> sale, so the catalog company wouldn't take it back. I didn't figure the
way
> to start getting a wheel true was to start with a device that was out of
> true itself.
>
I have the out of true problem with my truing stand. I just have to correct
for it when I'm building/truing. As long as you know where it isn't right,
adapt and overcome.
> I posted a simple question. I should have known better than to expect
> anyone in a newsgroup to be able to give a simple answer. Sheeeesh ...
> y'all have WAY too much time on your hands.
>
Ain't that the truth!
Mike
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>>> "I don't build wheels and I'm not going to."
>> Could you explain this comment?
> Sure. I do basic maintenance on my bike. I keep it clean --
> especially the drivetrain. I keep it lubed where it needs to be.
> Mostly, I ride it ... and ride it and ride it and ride it. But I
> have a job and a family. What time I have to devote to my bike I
> spend riding it. And if I have time to read a book, I have other
> books I'm WAY more interested in reading than The Bicycle Wheel. No
> slam intended. That's just the way it is.
I guess you'll have to stew in your own juice if you don't want to
understand why your wheels don't stay true. Besides, if you aren't
going to maintain them then leave it to the bicycle shop that does.
> You said rough roads don't produce untrue wheels. WHAT? I know who
> you are and that you're THE expert and all, but do you really mean
> to tell me that riding high mileage on rough roads won't tend to
> cause a wheel to come out of true faster than riding on smooth
> roads? That defies logic and reason.
If you understand what changes when a wheel loses alignment then you
would understand why rough roads don't affect wheel alignment. If the
rim does not bottom the tire against road hazards, then the wheel has
no reason to lose alignment. Of course this assumes you are using
conventional equipment rather than the latest untried fad.
> As for what's wrong with my Minoura stand. First, I don't have it
> anymore. It arrived with a device that you could use to make sure
> the stand was properly aligned. It wasn't. It couldn't be
> adjusted. I bought it on sale, so the catalog company wouldn't take
> it back. I didn't figure the way to start getting a wheel true was
> to start with a device that was out of true itself.
> I posted a simple question. I should have known better than to
> expect anyone in a newsgroup to be able to give a simple answer.
> Sheeeesh ... y'all have WAY too much time on your hands.
Your haughty tone and the obstacles you throw out for receiving advice
that you might follow is the problem. You imply that your time is
more valuable than that of others who respond to your questions. How
do job interviews go with this approach?
If you sift through the responses you'll see that your question has
been fully answered but you don't want to true wheels so what can
others say.
Gary Young
><snip>
> You said rough roads don't produce untrue wheels. WHAT? I know who you are
> and that you're THE expert and all, but do you really mean to tell me that
> riding high mileage on rough roads won't tend to cause a wheel to come out
> of true faster than riding on smooth roads? That defies logic and reason.
>
> As for what's wrong with my Minoura stand. First, I don't have it anymore.
> It arrived with a device that you could use to make sure the stand was
> properly aligned. It wasn't. It couldn't be adjusted. I bought it on
> sale, so the catalog company wouldn't take it back. I didn't figure the way
> to start getting a wheel true was to start with a device that was out of
> true itself.
That calibration tool goes a long way toward explaining why I find the
Minoura stand so frustrating. The T-shaped tool has two marks, one on
either side, indicating where "center" is. But the two marks don't
line up! I just found it mind-boggling that Minoura would expect you
to correct the stand using a tool that was itself incorrect.
That being said, the Minoura tool _is_ adjustible, as is explained in
the instruction manual -- you can loosen the u-shaped piece that
embraces the rim and move it from side to side until it's centered.
You can build a perfectly good wheel with a little patience, which you
seem to have in short supply.
>
> I posted a simple question. I should have known better than to expect
> anyone in a newsgroup to be able to give a simple answer. Sheeeesh ...
> y'all have WAY too much time on your hands.
Why even ask? You seem to have all the answers.
Russell Yim
>WHAT? I know who you are and that you're
>THE expert and all, but do you really mean to
>tell me that riding high mileage on rough roads
>won't tend to cause a wheel to come out of true
>faster than riding on smooth roads? That defies
>logic and reason.
I'm not Jobst...but I have read his book. :)
While the "rough roads don't produce untrue wheels" argument sounds
illogical, it is indeed true (no pun intended.) If a wheel is _properly_
tensioned, it will hold it's true virtually indefinitely. I can't
remember the last time I had to true my wheels. I did rebuild the rear
last year, but only to lace in a cassette hub...I was tired of having to
replace the FW hub axle, which would bend and break just about every six
months. Previous to that, the wheel got all new spokes, to replace the
fatigued factory cheapo galvanized spokes. But NO truing has been done
in at least five years.
A wheel should be able to withstand any road (or non-road for that
matter) and stay in-true, up to the point of damage, i.e physically bent
rim. Really.
Alex Rodriguez
>
>
>"I don't build wheels and I'm not
>> going to." Could you explain this comment?
>
>Sure. I do basic maintenance on my bike. I keep it clean -- especially the
>drivetrain. I keep it lubed where it needs to be. Mostly, I ride it ...
>and ride it and ride it and ride it. But I have a job and a family. What
>time I have to devote to my bike I spend riding it. And if I have time to
>read a book, I have other books I'm WAY more interested in reading than The
>Bicycle Wheel. No slam intended. That's just the way it is.
If you don't have time to read the book, then you don't have the time to
true your wheels either. The reason being that if you don't do it properly,
you are just wasting your time. The time you spend learning how to do it
properly will save you much more time.
>You said rough roads don't produce untrue wheels. WHAT? I know who you are
>and that you're THE expert and all, but do you really mean to tell me that
>riding high mileage on rough roads won't tend to cause a wheel to come out
>of true faster than riding on smooth roads? That defies logic and reason.
Does not defy logic at all. Pretty straight forward. Your wheels will only
go out of true if you hit a hole big enough to damage the rim or if you hit a
hole and the impact causes the spokes to go completely slack. The slack spoke
will then slowly unscrew itself. Wheels built with too low a tension will
do this, a well built wheel will not. This is covered in the book.
>As for what's wrong with my Minoura stand. First, I don't have it anymore.
>It arrived with a device that you could use to make sure the stand was
>properly aligned. It wasn't. It couldn't be adjusted. I bought it on
>sale, so the catalog company wouldn't take it back. I didn't figure the way
>to start getting a wheel true was to start with a device that was out of
>true itself.
That device is simply for centering purposes and is not necessary. You could
easily use the stand as it was just to check for wheel trueness. You could
then flip the wheel in the stand to make sure it was centered. This is also
covered in the book.
>I posted a simple question. I should have known better than to expect
>anyone in a newsgroup to be able to give a simple answer. Sheeeesh ...
>y'all have WAY too much time on your hands.
You got more than one answer, you just didn't like the answer you got. Some
people don't have a lot of time, that is why they want to make sure they do
things the right way the first time around. You too would have more bike time
and less time behind the truing stand if you read the book.
Mike S.
"Alex Rodriguez" <ad...@columbia.edu> wrote in message
news:b9e1bh$sae$1...@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu...
There's a difference between reading about something and actually doing it.
The mind may comprehend, but if the hands don't get it, you may as well have
not read the book in the first place. I can read how to drive an F1 car as
fast as Michael Schumacher, but until I've actually spent time doing it, its
worthless knowledge.
Practice, practice, practice, grasshopper...
Mike
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
that you're THE expert and all, but do you really mean to tell me that
riding high mileage on rough roads won't tend to cause a wheel to come
out of true faster than riding on smooth roads? That defies logic and
reason."
A wheel that has been properly built, tentioned, trued and stressed will
not go out of true unless a spoke breaks, or it suffers an impact (the
RIM, not just the tire). This is correct. It does not defy logic or
reason if you know a little bit about how a tangentally spoked wheel
holds itself in shape.
I have thousands (tens of thousands?) of miles on my rims. Bad roads,
good roads, unpaved roads, RR crossings, potholes. Both unladen and with
a full load of camping gear packed on the bike.
Yes, they may need a bit of touching up every few years, but they're
still true to within thousandths of an inch.
Jobst may come off like a know-it-all from time to time, but he's NOT
stupid. I suggest you read his book.
Jpfler
>A well built wheel does not need periodic truing unless you bottom out
>and damage the rim. In which case you will need fatter tires or more air
>in your tires.
This thread has been very informative. Please tell me what" bottom out" means.
Thanks.
Jim
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
>> A well built wheel does not need periodic truing unless you bottom
>> out and damage the rim. In which case you will need fatter tires
>> or more air in your tires.
> This thread has been very informative. Please tell me what" bottom
> out" means.
That is compressing the tire to the point that it is flat and leaves
no air between rim and road. This is what causes pinch flats and rim
damage.