Simple green chain cleaner?????
enigma...@yahoo.com
Does anyone know if the chain cleaner liquid used in various chain cleaner
machines is Simple Green?
Has anyone tried Simple Green for this? Did it melt your plastic chain
cleaner, or did it work well?
Did you dillute the Simple Green?
I'm curious about Simple Green because it would be a less expensive chain
cleaner.
Thanks,
B
Jim Flom
news:qHwnd.17$sI4....@news.uswest.net...
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know if the chain cleaner liquid used in various chain cleaner
> machines is Simple Green?
>
> Has anyone tried Simple Green for this? Did it melt your plastic chain
> cleaner, or did it work well?
>
I use Simple Green exclusively for chain cleaning, full strength. I also
use it diluted in a spray bottle for other bike cleaning (suggested strength
mixtures are on the bottle). The other item I use for bike cleaning is a
spray bottle with windshield washer fluid for less dirty work.
Just don't soak your chain (or components) for too long in it or the Simple
Green can strip the finish off. But for general use it's great.
JF
Mike Beauchamp
as I'm concerned, and yeah.. I've used about 3 different chain cleaners. I
haven't tried Simple Green yet though... I don't know if it's specifically a
degreaser or not though..
<enigma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qHwnd.17$sI4....@news.uswest.net...
Phil, Squid-in-Training
> When I clean my chain, I just use my parents dish soap.. works great
> as far as I'm concerned, and yeah.. I've used about 3 different chain
> cleaners. I haven't tried Simple Green yet though... I don't know if
> it's specifically a degreaser or not though..
It is.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
H. M. Leary
wrote:
Soylent Green is better!....:)
OK. Its rainning here, danmmit!
Weisse Luft
Simple Green is more of a detergent solution than a solvent. While it
will emulsify oil, its effectiveness on grease and wax is limited,
leading to the false belief lubricants like White Lightning, when
applied to an installed chain, leave a permanent buildup on cogs,
jockey wheels and chainrings.
If you use oil type chain lubricants, Simple Green might be enough but
if you use White Lightning, you need to use a better solvent. And the
spray can stuff WL sells evaporates too fast to be effective on the
above mentioned trouble areas. Use low odor paint thinner.
--
Weisse Luft
Fred Hall
"H. M. Leary" <miki...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:mikie357-7DF611...@news.verizon.net...
But...but....soylent green is PEOPLE!!!
carl...@comcast.net
<fha...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
>"H. M. Leary" <miki...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
>news:mikie357-7DF611...@news.verizon.net...
>> In article <Gyynd.5475$l65.625@clgrps13>, "Jim Flom"
><jim...@telusREMOVE.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > <enigma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:qHwnd.17$sI4....@news.uswest.net...
[snip]
>> > Just don't soak your chain (or components) for too long in it or the
>> > Simple Green can strip the finish off. But for general use it's great.
>> >
>> > JF
>>
>> Soylent Green is better!....:)
>>
>> OK. Its rainning here, danmmit!
>
>But...but....soylent green is PEOPLE!!!
>
Dear Junior,
As has been previously discussed, your dietary prejudices
are mistaken. Eating people is not wrong:
http://www.nyanko.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fas/hat_canib.html
Remember, we favor cleanliness at all costs:
http://www.nyanko.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/fas/tried_bath.html
D. Swann & M. Flanders
Jim Smith
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:09:29 GMT, "Fred Hall"
> <fha...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >"H. M. Leary" <miki...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
> >news:mikie357-7DF611...@news.verizon.net...
> >> In article <Gyynd.5475$l65.625@clgrps13>, "Jim Flom"
> ><jim...@telusREMOVE.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > <enigma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:qHwnd.17$sI4....@news.uswest.net...
>
> [snip]
>
> >> > Just don't soak your chain (or components) for too long in it or the
> >> > Simple Green can strip the finish off. But for general use it's great.
> >> >
> >> > JF
> >>
> >> Soylent Green is better!....:)
> >>
> >> OK. Its rainning here, danmmit!
> >
> >But...but....soylent green is PEOPLE!!!
> >
>
> Dear Junior,
>
> As has been previously discussed, your dietary prejudices
> are mistaken. Eating people is not wrong:
Mr Fogel,
You are correct. It is indeed a rather modest proposal.
Neil Brooks
> It is indeed a rather modest proposal.
I am impressed with how swiftly that response came ;-)
-Jonathan
Jim Flom
>
> If you use oil type chain lubricants, Simple Green might be enough but
> if you use White Lightning, you need to use a better solvent. And the
> spray can stuff WL sells evaporates too fast to be effective on the
> above mentioned trouble areas. Use low odor paint thinner.
Hadn't heard of the need for something stronger with dry lubes like WL,
although I don't use dry lubes anyway. While paint thinner is probably
going to be stronger, on factor the OP may care about is that Simple Green
is greener, i.e., environmentally friendlier. It's biodegradable, and
eaiser on the skin too.
JF
Terry Morse
> Actually, simple green is not biodegrable. It has some nasties
> in it. They just made it green so you'd think it was environmentally
> friendly.
From the Simple Green company FAQ:
"Readily Biodegradable: Simple Green is readily decomposed in the
environment by naturally occurring microorganisms. Simple Green
meets the OECD (Organization for Economic Cooperation and
Development) and the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency)
recommendations for ready biodegradability. Simple Green's
biological oxygen demand (BOD), as a percentage of its chemical
oxygen demand (COD) after 4, 7, and 11 days is 56%, 60%, and 70%
respectively."
http://consumer.simplegreen.com/cons_prod_ori_faqs.php
If it truly isn't biodegradable, someone should call the company on
their facts.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
Jim Smith
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:16:14 GMT, "Jim Flom" <jim...@telusREMOVE.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Hadn't heard of the need for something stronger with dry lubes like WL,
> >although I don't use dry lubes anyway. While paint thinner is probably
> >going to be stronger, on factor the OP may care about is that Simple Green
> >is greener, i.e., environmentally friendlier. It's biodegradable, and
> >eaiser on the skin too.
>
> Actually, simple green is not biodegrable. It has some nasties
> in it. They just made it green so you'd think it was environmentally
> friendly. There was quite a discussion of this a while back in
> another forum including some responses from VP's with the Simple
> folks.
>
According to the official tests, as reported in the MSDS:
http://www.simplegreen.com/pdfs/04_msds_simple_green.pdf
simple green is indeed biodegradeable. From the MSDS:
"Simple Green is readily decomposed by naturally occurring
microorganisms... Per OECD Closed Bottle Test, Simple Green meets
OECD and EPA reccomendations for ready biodegradability."
They do not mention what Simple Green is made of, but they do report
that the only adverse effect is a little red skin if you soak a mouse in
it for a week. Other than that it is non-toxic.
Of course you heard something differant on usenet, so there must be
some sort of conspiracy.
What are these "nasties" you speak of? Are they anything like the
"toxins" people flush out of their colons with coffee enemas?
--
Proud member of the reality-based community
Paul Kopit
<Weisse.Lu...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>Simple Green is more of a detergent solution than a solvent. While it
>will emulsify oil, its effectiveness on grease and wax is limited,
>leading to the false belief lubricants like White Lightning, when
>applied to an installed chain, leave a permanent buildup on cogs,
>jockey wheels and chainrings.
Simple Green is made of citrus terpenes. They are excellent solvents
for organic materials and decent water solubility. Downside is that
they are not volatile and removing the solvent completely from the
part is is not easy. The solvent is usually not reused or the
washings collected. I really don't understand why people use them on
bicycles.
carl...@comcast.net
<uctr...@ultranet.com> wrote:
>On 21 Nov 2004 14:11:51 -0600, Jim Smith <jebus....@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Of course you heard something differant on usenet, so there must be
>>some sort of conspiracy.
>>
>>What are these "nasties" you speak of? Are they anything like the
>>"toxins" people flush out of their colons with coffee enemas?
>
>No, actually I heard something different as a discussion between
>chemists over the actual contents. It was firsthand from the chemists
>and confirmed (eventually) by the not-so-Simple Green VP. I'll see if
>I can dig it out.
>
>Bob
Dear Bob,
Possibly you're thinking of these kinds of comments?
"Chemical names are often disguised by using innocuous trade
names, and most chemicals can be listed under several
different synonyms to make it even more confusing. For
example, butyl cellosolve, an ingredient of such products as
Simple Green or Formula 409, can be listed as:
2-butoxyethanol, ethylene glycol monobutyl ether, monobutyl
glycol ether, or simply as a glycol ether (glycol ethers are
also listed by NIOSH as neurotoxins - effects the central
nervous system). Butyl is associated with blood and bone
marrow damage, and adverse effects on hematopoietic tissues,
blood, kidneys and liver. This information is available
through NIOSH or the product Material Safety Data Sheet."
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=%22simple+green%22+biodegradable&hl=en&lr=&scoring=d&selm=bpc5fm%24hvq%241%40lust.ihug.co.nz&rnum=8
or http://tinyurl.com/7x7xo
None of that stuff appears in my Harvard Concordance to
Shakespeare, so for all that I know the poster may just be
frothing.
Here's another comment on Simple Green:
>Formula 409 is definately not similar to Simple Green.
"BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!! Wrong! Both are chemically very
similar. They are both butyl cellosolve based, surfactant
loaded degreasers. I've done analysis on both, and they're
pretty close to each other."
"Take that 'biodegradable' idea associated with SG with a
grain of salt. It's just another butyl cleaner, nothing
more, nothing less."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=19990910095938.23620.00006354%40ng-fx1.aol.com&rnum=79&prev=/groups%3Fq%3D%2522simple%2Bgreen%2522%2Bbiodegradable%26start%3D70%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D19990910095938.23620.00006354%2540ng-fx1.aol.com%26rnum%3D79
or http://tinyurl.com/5pshr
Carl Fogel
Paul Kopit
wrote:
>Simple Green
>is greener, i.e., environmentally friendlier. It's biodegradable, and
>eaiser on the skin too.
I don't believe that citrus terpene solvents are particularly
biodegradeable. Before the advent of Simple Green, these chemicals, a
byproduct of squeezing citrus fruits with the peels on, were sold in
small quantity to manufacturers of flavors and fragrances as chemical
raw materials. Environmentally, they couldn't dump them into the
ocean or bury them underground. I think that they were incinerated or
maybe used for fuel.
I recall when Simple Green was introduced as a safe household cleaner,
The advertisements showed people using it to clean walls and squirting
the stuff into their mouths to prove how safe the product was. That
test proves little about safety or environmental benefits.
I wonder why they haven't made a liquid laundry detergeant out of this
stuff yet?
Jim Smith
Yes, those usenet posts have a nice frothy feel. It probably is the
2-butoxyethanol \/\/o\/\oh that worries folks. As pointed out in the
MSDS, this is the only compound used in simple green that has exposure
limits. Note that simple green itself has been tested and shown to be
safe. Oh well, some folks are afraid of acetone, and others thought
the Cassini probe was going to cause the fiery end of the earth. Hell,
ethanol is a known neurotoxin yet most folks still use it. Furrfu. I
consider myself a lefty tree-hugger and these folks bug me.
As an aside, "butyl" by itself just means "four single bonded carbon
atoms." You may not have found it in your Harvard Concordance, but
"butyl" comes from Latin "butyrum" because a four carbon carboxylic
acid is common in rancid butter.
My personal favorite is the six-carbon "caproic acid" which presumably
comes from rancid goats.
Terry Morse
> Simple Green is made of citrus terpenes.
From the Simple Green consumer FAQ:
"Citrus - Does Simple Green contain any citrus products?
There are no citrus products in Simple Green products."
http://consumer.simplegreen.com/cons_faqs.php
Weisse Luft
Simple Green is a detergent solution with only mild grease cutting
properties at room temperatures. > Simple Green is a blend of water, surfactant (surface-active) agents,
> wetting agents, emulsifiers, color and scent. Surfactant agents lift
> grease and oil up off of the surface, wetting agents help Simple Green
> penetrate soils, and emulsifiers put those soils into solution so that
> they can be washed away.
While such a solution will remove grease from surfaces like fabric, its
speed of action on thicker deposits is very sluggish. Removing wax from
chains, rings and cogs would take much longer. The solvent used in
White Lightning is hexane, a very light petroleum solvent.
There is another concern, that being plated chains and the high pH of
the undiluted solution. It can damage some platings and may damage
hardened steels used in some chain pins. Shimano specifically calls
for a "neutral solvent". A pH of 9.5 is NOT a neutral solvent.
--
Weisse Luft
Terry Morse
> What bugs me is people like SG
> claiming (inferring) that their product is environmentally friendly
> when it is really not.
Citations, please. Simple Green's claims are plainly stated on their
web site. They don't imply (not infer) anything, they state it
clearly. Where is your clear statement to the contrary, and what is
your source?
Kenny Lee
Werehatrack
>Hi,
>
>Does anyone know if the chain cleaner liquid used in various chain cleaner
>machines is Simple Green?
TTBOMK, none of the chain cleaners are supplied with that product as
their active agent. There are numerous compounds that will work well.
>Has anyone tried Simple Green for this? Did it melt your plastic chain
>cleaner, or did it work well?
Simple Green has worked middling well as a degreaser in a few usages
in my shop, but I have found that it does not perform as well or as
economically as the purple degreaser product sold for $5 per gallon at
Autozone. Neither compound has damaged any plastics that I've used it
with. I have used the Autozone degreaser to clean oil sludge and
varnish from automotive engine parts by merely soaking them in a
bucket of it. Simple Green did very little sludge removal in the same
conditions, and didn't touch the varnish at all.
>I'm curious about Simple Green because it would be a less expensive chain
>cleaner.
There are others that are even cheaper, as noted above.
If using a butyl-based degreaser such as the Autozone item mentioned,
I would recommend that you wear protective gloves; it's hard on skin,
and will leave your hands completely de-oiled and dry. Most rubber
gloves are adequate for use with it. As with any chemical, follow the
package directions for safety.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
Werehatrack
Simple Green has more than one cleaning compound in its line. There
is a citrus-based degreasing compound, but their original product
isn't citrus-based, and my experience with the origianl product was
(and is) that it is a poor degreaser. Their citrus-based product is a
much better degreaser, but much more expensive in this area than a
number of other alternatives.
Werehatrack
<rau...@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:48:28 GMT, Paul Kopit
><p.kopi...@SPAMverizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:23:59 +1100, Weisse Luft
>><Weisse.Lu...@no-mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Simple Green is more of a detergent solution than a solvent. While it
>>>will emulsify oil, its effectiveness on grease and wax is limited,
>>>leading to the false belief lubricants like White Lightning, when
>>>applied to an installed chain, leave a permanent buildup on cogs,
>>>jockey wheels and chainrings.
>>
>>Simple Green is made of citrus terpenes. They are excellent solvents
>>for organic materials and decent water solubility. Downside is that
>>they are not volatile and removing the solvent completely from the
>>part is is not easy. The solvent is usually not reused or the
>>washings collected. I really don't understand why people use them on
>>bicycles.
>
>Simple Green has more than one cleaning compound in its line. There
>is a citrus-based degreasing compound,
Correction; apparently they have stopped producing any citrus-based
products; I recall having had a sample of one at one point, but I
never bought any due to the excessive cost and the lack of any
performance advantage over the inexpensive products I had been using.
> but their original product
>isn't citrus-based, and my experience with the original product was
>(and is) that it is a poor degreaser.
And I stand by that statement, based on my own experience using it
(with poor results) in both automotive repair and screen printing.
Weisse Luft
Ha! They probably found out citrus terpenes (limonenes) have a positive
on the Ames test. This test, pioneered by Dr. Bruce Ames, gives rapid
screening on POSSIBLE carcinogens. Dr. Ames later recanted on the
tests accuracy, especially after testing orange peel expressed terpenes
only to discover this too was a possible carcinogen.
Since mechanical orange juice machines cannot remove 100% of the
terpenes from orange juice, a positive on this test implies orange
juice can cause cancer.
--
Weisse Luft
Werehatrack
I am minded of a test that was discarded in which the results seemed
to imply that shaving a small patch on the backs of rats and applying
a drop of distilled water to the skin daily was also carcinogenic in
that strain of cancer-prone rat.
Laboratory rats cause cancer. That's the real conclusion that's
supported by the evidence.
Bruce Rideout
> Retro Bob <uctr...@ultranet.com> writes:
>
> > On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:16:14 GMT, "Jim Flom" <jim...@telusREMOVE.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Hadn't heard of the need for something stronger with dry lubes like WL,
> > >although I don't use dry lubes anyway. While paint thinner is probably
> > >going to be stronger, on factor the OP may care about is that Simple Green
> > >is greener, i.e., environmentally friendlier. It's biodegradable, and
> > >eaiser on the skin too.
> >
> > Actually, simple green is not biodegrable. It has some nasties
> > in it. They just made it green so you'd think it was environmentally
> > friendly. There was quite a discussion of this a while back in
> > another forum including some responses from VP's with the Simple
> > folks.
> >
>
> According to the official tests, as reported in the MSDS:
>
> http://www.simplegreen.com/pdfs/04_msds_simple_green.pdf
>
> simple green is indeed biodegradeable. From the MSDS:
>
> "Simple Green is readily decomposed by naturally occurring
> microorganisms... Per OECD Closed Bottle Test, Simple Green meets
> OECD and EPA reccomendations for ready biodegradability."
>
<Snipped a bit>
Even if Simple Green is biodegradable, I hope everyone realizes that
once it has been used to de-grease a chain it should be disposed of as
other toxic wastes would be and not put down a drain.
Bruce
Terry Morse
> Even if Simple Green is biodegradable, I hope everyone realizes that
> once it has been used to de-grease a chain it should be disposed of as
> other toxic wastes would be and not put down a drain.
Not down a storm drain, for sure. But some types of oily water may
be put into a sewer, depending on local regulations. As with just
about every other issue, there's a Simple Green item that discusses
this:
Phil, Squid-in-Training
We'd better not breathe, either! We all know what comes out of tailpipes,
even if it is measured in parts per gajillion.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Werehatrack
Yeah, and have you ever read the ingredients list for a cow? Of
course, IIRC, the one for an ear of corn is way scarier these days.
Weisse Luft
In order of precedence....
Hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, carbon, calcium.... ;) Same as it ever was
--
Weisse Luft
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Yeah and some of those are free radicals! Free radicals completely F you
up. We should all be on dialysis machines to get rid of these too.
Portable ones so we will not have as many free radicals. Plus one of those
plastic bubble things with a UV coating so we won't be exposed to light rays
from the sun or the air, which has oxygen, also a known people-killer.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training