What Right-Wing Governance Does For Cycling
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
news.suddenlink.net
you treasonous and Un-American assholes put into office and his party's
run-away spending.
Here's another that crosses party lines:
It's easy to dismiss individual programs that Benefit non-citizens until
they're put together And this picture emerges. Someone did a lot
Of research to put together all of this data. Often these programs are
buried within other Programs making them difficult to find.
A Real Eye Opener ...
WHY is the USA BANKRUPT?
Informative, and mind boggling!
You think the war in Iraq was costing
Us too much? Read this:
We have been hammered with the
Propaganda that it was the Iraq war and The war on terror that is
bankrupting us.
I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.
I hope the following 14 reasons are Forwarded over and over again until They
are read so many times that the Reader gets sick of reading them. I also
Have ncluded the URL's for verification
Of all the following facts...
1.$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare To illegal aliens each year
by state governments.
Verify at:
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7fd8
<http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7fd8>
2.$22 Billion dollars a year is spent on food Assistance programs such as
food stamps,
WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
VerifyAt: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML
<http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML>
3.$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML
<http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML>
4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on Primary and secondary school
education For children here illegally and they Cannot speak a word of
English!
Verify at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt..0.HTML
<http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt..0.HTML>
5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for Education for the
American-bornChildren of illegal aliens, known asAnchor babies.
Verify
At http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
<http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML>
6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent toIncarcerate illegal aliens.
Verify at:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
<http://transcripts.CNN.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML>
http://transcripts.cnn.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
<http://transcripts.CNN.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML><http://transcripts.CNN.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
<http://transcripts.CNN.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML> >
7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison Inmates are illegal aliens.
Verify at: http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
<http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML>
<http://transcripts/ <http://transcripts/>
...CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML%3E <;;
8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on Illegal aliens for Welfare &
social Services by the merican taxpayers.
Verify
At: http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.HTML
<http://premium.CNN.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.HTML>
9. $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by
the illegal Aliens.
Verify At: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSC RI PTS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
<http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANSC%20RI%20PTS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML>
10. The illegal aliens in the United States Have a crime rate that's two
and a half Times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their
children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the U.S.
Verify
at: http://transcripts.cnn..com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt..01.HTML
<http://transcripts.cnn..com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt..01.HTML>
11. During the year of 2005, there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
crossed our Southern Border, also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
marijuana, crossed into the US from the Southern border.
Verify
at: Homeland Security Report:
12. The National policy Institute estimated that the total cost of mass
deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
Verify
at: http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute..org/PDF/deportation.PDF
<http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute..org/PDF/deportationPDF>
13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their
countries of origin.
Verify
at: http://www/. <http://www/..rense.com/general75/niht.htm>
rense.com/general75/niht.htm <http://www/..rense.com/general75/niht.htm>
14. The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration:
Nearly One million sex crimes committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United
States .
Verify at:
http: // www.drdsk.com/articleshtml <http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml>
<% 20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml <http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml>;
The total cost is a whopping
$ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS
A YEAR AND IF YOU'RE LIKE ME,
HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING
THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS
$338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR THE
CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.
Are we THAT Stupid?
YES, FOR LETTING THOSE IN THE U.S. CONGRESS GET AWAY WITH LETTING THIS
HAPPEN YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!
If this doesn't bother you, then just delete the message. If, on the other
hand, it does raise the hair on the back of your neck, I hope you forward it
to every
legal resident in the United States ..
"Tºm Shermªn™ °_°" <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote in
message news:ikk5lf$13r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Dan O
$southslope.net"> wrote:
> See <http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>
> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>
http://bikeportland.org/2011/03/01/neighborhood-speed-limit-bill-passes-house-committee-5-3-48905
The R's tried to stop this bill getting out of committee because they
don't like the word "green".
Edward Dolan
"Tºm Shermªn™ °_°" <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote in
message news:ikk5lf$13r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement to
> road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
I think Minnesota has more miles of roads to maintain than almost any other
state. If and when we return some asphalt roads to gravel roads, it just
means that vehicles will have to go slower which will not to be such a bad
thing. As far a cycling is concerned, I NEVER see cyclists doing any riding
on rural roads. Cycling is best restricted to urban areas anyway.
As for raising taxes to pay for ever more and better roads, forget about it.
The states and counties are all going broke just like the federal
government. Everyone is already paying more than enough taxes. The solution
to all our problems is to stop the spending and to learn to get along on
less. What we spend on education is especially a boondoggle. Yea, tighten
the belt and welcome deprivation. It is good for the soul!
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> ?Tom, you FUCKING NIT WIT: There are other issues, such as the Socialist
> you treasonous and Un-American assholes put into office and his party's
> run-away spending.
Yet another coward afraid to use his/her real name.
> Here's another that crosses party lines:
> It's easy to dismiss individual programs that Benefit non-citizens until
> they're put together And this picture emerges. Someone did a lot
> Of research to put together all of this data. Often these programs are
> buried within other Programs making them difficult to find.
>
>
> A Real Eye Opener ...
> WHY is the USA BANKRUPT?
> Informative, and mind boggling!
>
>
> You think the war in Iraq was costing
> Us too much? Read this:
>
>
> We have been hammered with the
> Propaganda that it was the Iraq war and The war on terror that is
> bankrupting us.
>
>
> I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.
> I hope the following 14 reasons are Forwarded over and over again until
> They are read so many times that the Reader gets sick of reading them. I
> also Have ncluded the URL's for verification
> Of all the following facts...
> [...]
> The total cost is a whopping
> $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS
> A YEAR AND IF YOU'RE LIKE ME,
> HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING
> THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS
> $338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR
> THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.
>
> Are we THAT Stupid?
> YES, FOR LETTING THOSE IN THE U.S. CONGRESS GET AWAY WITH LETTING THIS
> HAPPEN YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!
>
>
> If this doesn't bother you, then just delete the message. If, on the
> other hand, it does raise the hair on the back of your neck, I hope you
> forward it to every
> legal resident in the United States ..
>
Hey anonymous sniper, you forgot to mention all the taxes paid by
illegal immigrants, which compensates for the services, since they do
not receive many of the benefits that citizens do.
Furthermore, if you dislike illegal immigration, blame the BUSINESS
COMMUNITY, since if undocumented workers were not *illegally* offered
jobs by BUSINESS OWNERS, they would not come to the US. Duh.
> "Tºm Shermªn™ °_°" <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote in
> message news:ikk5lf$13r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> See <http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>>
>> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
>> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
>> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>>
>> --
>> Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
>> I am a vehicular cyclist.
>
Please honor the signature separator (i.e. "-- ").
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> "T�m Sherm�n� �_�"<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote in
> message news:ikk5lf$13r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> See<http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>>
>> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
>> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement to
>> road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>
> I think Minnesota has more miles of roads to maintain than almost any other
> state. If and when we return some asphalt roads to gravel roads, it just
> means that vehicles will have to go slower which will not to be such a bad
> thing. As far a cycling is concerned, I NEVER see cyclists doing any riding
> on rural roads. Cycling is best restricted to urban areas anyway.
>
> As for raising taxes to pay for ever more and better roads, forget about it.
> The states and counties are all going broke just like the federal
> government. Everyone is already paying more than enough taxes.
Nonsense. The upper classes and corporations are only paying a fraction
of what they did under the REPUBLICAN Eisenhower Administration (when
the middle classes were much better off).
> The solution
> to all our problems is to stop the spending and to learn to get along on
> less. What we spend on education is especially a boondoggle. Yea, tighten
> the belt and welcome deprivation. It is good for the soul!
The biggest boondoggle is what is spent on subsidizing Wall Street incomes.
Edward Dolan
news:f69da81c-c1e5-4c5c...@l14g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>> http://bikeportland.org/2011/03/01/neighborhood-speed-limit-bill-passes-house-committee-5-3-48905
Hells Bells, I don't like the word "green" either if it means my monthly
utility bill will go up. Fuck that!
AMuzi
> See <http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
I assume Iowa crooks are similar to Illinois:
http://archive.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/05/records-pagano-was-paid-1m-by-metra-in-2010.html
and Wisconsin:
http://www.franklinnow.com/blogs/communityblogs/98603114.html
A guy who wants use of the county roads is out of luck, pal.
Finagling pays better than paving.
We once had the occasional honest man:
"n 1926 Tom Pendergast, Mike’s other son, supported Truman
for a four-year term as presiding judge of the county with
full authority over county roads, buildings, and taxes.
Although the Pendergast machine was strong, with his
characteristic bluntness, Truman told Pendergast he would
fire any man who failed to do an honest job. Finding the
road system a shambles, the courthouse in ruins, and tax
money in the pockets of Pendergast supporters, Truman began
wholesale firings. He appointed an independent road
commission, hired reputable workers, secured out-of-state
bank loans at low interest rates, and ended graft in
building contracts. He toured the country to find the
best-designed courthouse. He found it in Shreveport,
Louisiana, hired its architect, and floated a successful
bond issue to pay for a similar building in Kansas City. In
1929 Mike Pendergast died, and his two sons replaced him.
Truman’s influence was enhanced, and he was reelected to a
second four-year term as presiding county judge."
from:
http://www.knowsouthernhistory.net/Biographies/Harry_Truman/
Honesty being an ever more rare attribute, I don't have much
hope. Great monies are levied but nothing works.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
AMuzi
It may save space if you could just list one expenditure
that doesn't diminish our quality of life and punish the
innocent taxpayer
If or when you find one.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
>> See <http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
>> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
>> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>
>
> I assume Iowa crooks are similar to Illinois:
>
> http://archive.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/05/records-pagano-was-paid-1m-by-metra-in-2010.html
>
>
> and Wisconsin:
>
The secret "they" do not want you to know is that lower and middle class
wages are set by the market [1], and go up and down at about the same
rate as tax increases and cuts. Therefore, lower and middle class
worker end up with about the same after-tax income with tax cuts, but
reductions in government services. However, the upper class wage
earners greatly increase their incomes with tax cuts.
The second secret "they" do not want you to know is that the hypothesis
of upper class tax cuts stimulating the economy has been proven false in
practice. The extra upper class income is not used for capital
investments, since the shifting of the overall share of income to the
rich depresses demand for goods and services. Instead, the rich mostly
use the extra income in de-facto gambling on Wall Street, and similar
unproductive activities.
[1] Upper class wages are typically set by the "You scratch my back and
I'll scratch yours" system.
AMuzi
Milton Freidman noted in 1960 that you can have open borders
or a welfare state but not both. We have yet to decide, to
our greater loss. It's like dancing with a foot on each of
two canoes.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Uncle Milty's hypotheses are not looking so good these day, after having
been tried in practice.
James
> As far a cycling is concerned, I NEVER see cyclists doing any riding
> on rural roads. Cycling is best restricted to urban areas anyway.
You live in a strange place.
JS.
Dan O
> >> messagenews:ikk5lf$13r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>> See <http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>
> >>> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
> >>> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
> >>> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>
> Milton Freidman noted in 1960 that you can have open borders
> or a welfare state but not both. We have yet to decide, to
> our greater loss. It's like dancing with a foot on each of
> two canoes.
>
But you could have One World *and* a compassionate society
(theoretically).
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Conditions have to be quite desperate for *most* people to leave their
families and culture behind.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Mr. Ed Dolan lives in southwest Minnesota, USA. Quite possibly, under a
bridge. ;)
Jay Beattie
>
> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
Lefties did this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/ Can you say "slip
and slide"? http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/
Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
holes. -- Jay Beattie.
AMuzi
> On Mar 1, 5:14 pm, T�m Sherm�n� �_� <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
Wow. Awesome artworks. Too bad they are an assault against
cyclists. Your traffic engineers have access to better
drugs than we do here, apparently, and ours are baked.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Bicycle farcilities (sic) were originated as a way to confine cyclists
to an area inferior to the motor vehicles, which is hardly a left-wing
position.
Remember, bicycle lanes were built in the Netherlands by order of the
Nazi [1] occupation, to keep bicycles out of the way of motor traffic.
[1] And only revisionist liars consider the Nazi's left-wing.
AMuzi
They probably would have called themselves by some lefty
sounding moniker like "National Socialist Party" or some such.
Frank Krygowski
>
> Lefties did this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/ Can you say "slip
> and slide"?http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/
>
> Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor.
But isn't _any_ bike facility a _good_ bike facility????
Seems that in some cities, if you're a bike coordinator who doesn't
buy that, you get fired. That's what I hear, anyway.
http://www.isthmus.com/isthmus/article.php?article=31516
- Frank Krygowski
Jay Beattie
$southslope.net"> wrote:
> On 3/1/2011 10:42 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>
> > On Mar 1, 5:14 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
> > $southslope.net"> wrote:
> >> See<http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>
> >> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
> >> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
> >> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>
> > Lefties did this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/ Can you say "slip
>
> > Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
> > the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
> > holes. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Bicycle farcilities (sic) were originated as a way to confine cyclists
> to an area inferior to the motor vehicles, which is hardly a left-wing
> position.
>
> Remember, bicycle lanes were built in the Netherlands by order of the
> Nazi [1] occupation, to keep bicycles out of the way of motor traffic.
>
> [1] And only revisionist liars consider the Nazi's left-wing.
>
matter how bad -- is a lefty invention. The right would do nothing.
The true small government states like Idaho have some dreadful roads.
I believe in spending money to make road surfaces rideable. I swear
that if I get killed on my bike, it is going to be while riding home
at night in the rain over crappy road surface. I don't need no
stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.
AMuzi
"unable to load page"
And they are just a few blocks away from here too. I'll
ride past them in about ten minutes.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
All the elements that had some concern for the working classes were in
the SA, and were "purged" by the SS in the "Night of the Long Knives".
Furthermore, why would the rich German industrialists have funded the
Nazi party if it was actually socialist? The idea is too ridiculous to
be taken seriously by any but the ignorant.
Peter Cole
I didn't get any part of the "facility" argument from that article. I
think you are projecting.
From this link, I got the impression he was pretty pro-facility, if
anything:
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=54392764456&topic=10320
Peter Cole
> On Mar 1, 5:14 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
> $southslope.net"> wrote:
>> See<http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>>
>> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
>> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
>> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>
> Lefties did this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/ Can you say "slip
> and slide"? http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/
"Lefties"? How do you know that?
FWIW, those examples look fine to me, your objections aren't obvious.
>
> Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
> the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
> holes. -- Jay Beattie.
Might have to raise taxes...
Peter Cole
> Jay Beattie wrote:
>> $southslope.net"> wrote:
>>> See <http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>>>
>>> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
>>> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
>>> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>>
>> Lefties did this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/ Can you say "slip
>> and slide"? http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/
>>
>> Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
>> the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
>> holes. -- Jay Beattie.
>
>
> Wow. Awesome artworks. Too bad they are an assault against cyclists.
> Your traffic engineers have access to better drugs than we do here,
> apparently, and ours are baked.
>
Is that why the guy got canned?
Peter Cole
I think it's more revisionist than that.
Edward Dolan
> On 3/1/2011 7:46 PM, news.suddenlink.net WHO? ANONYMOUSLY SNIPES:
>> ?Tom, you FUCKING NIT WIT: There are other issues, such as the Socialist
>> you treasonous and Un-American assholes put into office and his party's
>> run-away spending.
>
> Yet another coward afraid to use his/her real name.
I am with Tom Sherman on this point.
[...]
>> Are we THAT Stupid?
>> YES, FOR LETTING THOSE IN THE U.S. CONGRESS GET AWAY WITH LETTING THIS
>> HAPPEN YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!
>>
>>
>> If this doesn't bother you, then just delete the message. If, on the
>> other hand, it does raise the hair on the back of your neck, I hope you
>> forward it to every
>> legal resident in the United States ..
>>
> Hey anonymous sniper, you forgot to mention all the taxes paid by illegal
> immigrants, which compensates for the services, since they do not receive
> many of the benefits that citizens do.
There is no equivalency here. Illegal immigrants take out of our economy
much more than they pay into it. That is why they come here in the first
place.
> Furthermore, if you dislike illegal immigration, blame the BUSINESS
> COMMUNITY, since if undocumented workers were not *illegally* offered jobs
> by BUSINESS OWNERS, they would not come to the US. Duh.
Nope, I blame the Dems in Congress and Obama. They have had plenty of time
to do something about it. Hells Bells, Obama will not even defend our
borders!
[...]
Edward Dolan
news:ikkavv$lc3$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
[...]
> Milton Freidman noted in 1960 that you can have open borders or a welfare
> state but not both. We have yet to decide, to our greater loss. It's like
> dancing with a foot on each of two canoes.
Excellent observation AMuzi!
My God, do I ever love to see an intelligent post on these fucking
newsgroups.
Edward Dolan
[...]
> It may save space if you could just list one expenditure that doesn't
> diminish our quality of life and punish the innocent taxpayer
>
> If or when you find one.
Andrew, where have you been all of my life? I think you are a genius on my
level, except you say everything better than I could, no small feat.
Best Regards,
Edward Dolan
message news:ikk92t$89t$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 3/1/2011 8:04 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
>> "T?m Sherm?n? ?_?"<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote in
>> message news:ikk5lf$13r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> See<http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>>>
>>> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
>>> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
>>> to
>>> road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>>
>> other
>> state. If and when we return some asphalt roads to gravel roads, it just
>> means that vehicles will have to go slower which will not to be such a
>> bad
>> thing. As far a cycling is concerned, I NEVER see cyclists doing any
>> on rural roads. Cycling is best restricted to urban areas anyway.
>>
>> it.
>> The states and counties are all going broke just like the federal
>> government. Everyone is already paying more than enough taxes.
>
> Nonsense. The upper classes and corporations are only paying a fraction
> of what they did under the REPUBLICAN Eisenhower Administration (when the
> middle classes were much better off).
But everything is constantly changing. We now live in a global economy and
the upper classes and corporations can take whatever they have to foreign
lands. It is what makes it possible for me to shop at Wal-Mart and not be
robbed. Jeez, try to get up to date if that is possible.
>> The solution
>> to all our problems is to stop the spending and to learn to get along on
>> less. What we spend on education is especially a boondoggle. Yea, tighten
>> the belt and welcome deprivation. It is good for the soul!
>
> The biggest boondoggle is what is spent on subsidizing Wall Street
> incomes.
Frankly, I do not understand how Wall Street works at all. I would never
give those bastards a single penny.
Frank Krygowski
> On 3/2/2011 12:22 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
> > On Mar 1, 11:42 pm, Jay Beattie<jbeat...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:
>
> >> and slide"?http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/
>
> >> Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor.
>
> > But isn't _any_ bike facility a _good_ bike facility????
>
> > Seems that in some cities, if you're a bike coordinator who doesn't
> > buy that, you get fired. That's what I hear, anyway.
>
> >http://www.isthmus.com/isthmus/article.php?article=31516
>
> > - Frank Krygowski
>
> I didn't get any part of the "facility" argument from that article. I
> think you are projecting.
>
> From this link, I got the impression he was pretty pro-facility, if
> anything:
>
> http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=54392764456&topic=10320
What I get from other sources is that he was diligent about traffic
engineering. He certainly installed facilities, but was careful to
see that they were properly designed for real-world traffic
interactions. Rumors are he was not sufficiently quick to jump
uncritically in favor of the latest version of "Let's just copy
Copenhagen!!!"
But admittedly, this is hearsay to me. Perhaps Andrew can comment.
This link does work for me:
Edward Dolan
message news:ikkaj6$odj$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
[...]
> The secret "they" do not want you to know is that lower and middle class
> wages are set by the market [1], and go up and down at about the same rate
> as tax increases and cuts. Therefore, lower and middle class worker end
> up with about the same after-tax income with tax cuts, but reductions in
> government services. However, the upper class wage earners greatly
> increase their incomes with tax cuts.
>
> The second secret "they" do not want you to know is that the hypothesis of
> upper class tax cuts stimulating the economy has been proven false in
> practice. The extra upper class income is not used for capital
> investments, since the shifting of the overall share of income to the rich
> depresses demand for goods and services. Instead, the rich mostly use the
> extra income in de-facto gambling on Wall Street, and similar unproductive
> activities.
>
> [1] Upper class wages are typically set by the "You scratch my back and
> I'll scratch yours" system.
I think Tom Sherman is not far from wrong in the above analysis (I was once
far to the Left of him). But even so, what other system of economy works any
better? I do not mind a few rich if it lets the rest of us get by. That is
something that all socialisms fail most abysmally at. North Korea anyone?
Edward Dolan
[...]
> [1] And only revisionist liars consider the Nazi's left-wing.
The Nazis were as left wing as the communists. If we had been smart, we
would have stayed out of the war in Europe and let the Nazis and Soviets
destroy one another. Neither one of them had anything to do with Western
democracy. In fact, they were both closely related to oriental despotism,
ever the favored governance of mankind down through history. Hells Bells, it
is hard work to be a citizen and it is no work at all to be a subject.
Jay Beattie
> On 3/1/2011 11:42 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>
> > $southslope.net"> wrote:
> >> See<http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>
> >> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
> >> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
> >> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>
> > Lefties did this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/ Can you say "slip
>
> "Lefties"? How do you know that?
>
> FWIW, those examples look fine to me, your objections aren't obvious.
>
>
>
> > Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
> > the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
> > holes. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Might have to raise taxes...
Picture one: "cycletrack between curb and parked cars. Cars take
curb anyway, so we end up with two lanes of parked cars and no bicycle
facility. Past iteration was simple bike lane outside of curb
parking. Worked fine. The "cycletracks" are dangerous chutes
cluttered with cars and pedestrians. They are the most dangerous
places to ride in the city.
Picture two: two-way bicyle traffic in narrow bicycle lanes
surrounded by traffic including busses. Prior iteration -- a road
that was plenty safe and simple.
Picture three: Slip n' slide blue applied coating that is dangerous
in the rain. We get a lot of rain.
Why lefties: It's Portland for gawdsake. There are bike lanes I
like. Don't get me wrong -- but they are simple facilities adjacent
to the travel lane that are the equivalent of wide shoulders.
Assuming that they provide real right-of-way is a mistake, so I ride
as though I am on a shoulder and assume cars will pull across them, in
to them and generally do whatever they want to do. -- Jay Beattie.
Edward Dolan
[...]
> Furthermore, why would the rich German industrialists have funded the Nazi
> party if it was actually socialist? The idea is too ridiculous to be
> taken seriously by any but the ignorant.
German industrialists had any brains? Surely you joke! In any event, they
had no choice once the Nazis assumed power. There are none so dense as
Leftists. Hey, any extreme Leftists left in Europe? They only exist in
extreme backwaters like where the Tom Sherman's exist.
AMuzi
Mensheviks, Bolsheviks, whatever.
AMuzi
Like we'd miss one. For a small town in the midwest, we have
SIX bicycle coordinators slaving away on the taxpayer's dime.
To no great effect I might add.
Zarniwoop
wrote:
> ?Tom, you FUCKING NIT WIT: There are other issues, such as the Socialist
> you treasonous and Un-American assholes put into office and his party's
> run-away spending.
> It's easy to dismiss individual programs that Benefit non-citizens until
> they're put together And this picture emerges. Someone did a lot
> Of research to put together all of this data. Often these programs are
> buried within other Programs making them difficult to find.
>
> A Real Eye Opener ...
> WHY is the USA BANKRUPT?
> Informative, and mind boggling!
>
> You think the war in Iraq was costing
> Us too much? Read this:
>
> We have been hammered with the
> Propaganda that it was the Iraq war and The war on terror that is
> bankrupting us.
>
> I now find that to be RIDICULOUS.
> I hope the following 14 reasons are Forwarded over and over again until They
> are read so many times that the Reader gets sick of reading them. I also
> Have ncluded the URL's for verification
> Of all the following facts...
> 1.$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare To illegal aliens each year
> by state governments.
> Verify at:http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuece...
> <http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuece...>
>
> 2.$22 Billion dollars a year is spent on food Assistance programs such as
> food stamps,
> WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
> VerifyAt:http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML
> <http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML>
>
> 3.$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
> Verify at:http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML
> <http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML>
>
> 4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on Primary and secondary school
> education For children here illegally and they Cannot speak a word of
> English!
> Verify at:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt..0.HTML
> <http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt..0.HTML>
>
> 5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for Education for the
> American-bornChildren of illegal aliens, known asAnchor babies.
> Verify
> Athttp://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
> <http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML>
>
> 6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent toIncarcerate illegal aliens.
> Verify at:http://transcripts.cnn.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
> <http://transcripts.CNN.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML>http://transcripts.cnn.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
> <http://transcripts.CNN.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML><http://transcripts.CNN.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
> <http://transcripts.CNN.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML> >
>
> 7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison Inmates are illegal aliens.
> Verify at:http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
> <http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML>
> <http://transcripts/<http://transcripts/>
> ...CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML%3E <;;
>
> 8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on Illegal aliens for Welfare &
> social Services by the merican taxpayers.
> Verify
> At:http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.HTML
> <http://premium.CNN.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.HTML>
>
> 9. $200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by
> the illegal Aliens.
> Verify At:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRI PTS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
> <http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANSC%20RI%20PTS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML>
>
> 10. The illegal aliens in the United States Have a crime rate that's two
> and a half Times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their
> children are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the U.S.
> Verify
> at:http://transcripts.cnn..com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt..01.HTML
> <http://transcripts.cnn..com/TRANscriptS/0606/12/ldt..01.HTML>
>
> 11. During the year of 2005, there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that
> crossed our Southern Border, also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from
> Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and
> marijuana, crossed into the US from the Southern border.
> Verify
> at: Homeland Security Report:
>
> 12. The National policy Institute estimated that the total cost of mass
> deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of
> between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period.
> Verify
> at:http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute..org/PDF/deportation.PDF
> <http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute..org/PDF/deportationPDF>
>
> 13. In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their
> countries of origin.
> Verify
> at:http://www/. <http://www/..rense.com/general75/niht.htm>
> rense.com/general75/niht.htm <http://www/..rense.com/general75/niht.htm>
>
> 14. The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration:
> Nearly One million sex crimes committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United
> States .
> Verify at:
> http: //www.drdsk.com/articleshtml<http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml>
> <% 20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml <http://20w.drdsk.com/articleshtml>;
>
> The total cost is a whopping
> $ 338.3 BILLION DOLLARS
> A YEAR AND IF YOU'RE LIKE ME,
> HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING
> THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS
> $338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR THE
> CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.
>
> Are we THAT Stupid?
> YES, FOR LETTING THOSE IN THE U.S. CONGRESS GET AWAY WITH LETTING THIS
> HAPPEN YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!
>
> If this doesn't bother you, then just delete the message. If, on the other
> hand, it does raise the hair on the back of your neck, I hope you forward it
> to every
> legal resident in the United States ..
>
> messagenews:ikk5lf$13r$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > See <http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>
> > Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
> > subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement to
> > road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>
> > T�m Sherm�n - 42.435731,-83.985007
> > I am a vehicular cyclist.
Tom obviously doesn't Know Deutsche is not the same as Dutch.
Edward Dolan
news:d796587f-fc86-447c...@t19g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
[...]
> Tom obviously doesn't know Deutsche is not the same as Dutch.
Trust me on this, Tom Sherman is one smart cookie and knows full well all
about Europe and its idiosyncrasies.
Why do the Dutch have a somewhat different language than the Germans? It is
so close, yet just far enough apart as to constitute a different language.
It is what drives us continental Americans crazy about Europe.
Peter Cole
> On Mar 2, 9:10 am, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 3/1/2011 11:42 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 1, 5:14 pm, T m Sherm n _<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
>>> $southslope.net"> wrote:
>>>> See<http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>>
>>>> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
>>>> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
>>>> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>>
>>> Lefties did this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/ Can you say "slip
>>> and slide"?http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/
>>
>> "Lefties"? How do you know that?
>>
>> FWIW, those examples look fine to me, your objections aren't obvious.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
>>> the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
>>> holes. -- Jay Beattie.
>>
>> Might have to raise taxes...
>
> Picture one: "cycletrack between curb and parked cars. Cars take
> curb anyway, so we end up with two lanes of parked cars and no bicycle
> facility. Past iteration was simple bike lane outside of curb
> parking. Worked fine. The "cycletracks" are dangerous chutes
> cluttered with cars and pedestrians. They are the most dangerous
> places to ride in the city.
Stats?
That's not been the experience from what I gather in NYC.
>
> Picture two: two-way bicyle traffic in narrow bicycle lanes
> surrounded by traffic including busses. Prior iteration -- a road
> that was plenty safe and simple.
>
> Picture three: Slip n' slide blue applied coating that is dangerous
> in the rain. We get a lot of rain.
Some coatings are/were slippery, but I was under (the perhaps mistaken)
impression that that problem had been solved.
> Why lefties: It's Portland for gawdsake.
If there's any place "lefter" than Portland, it's Boston, and they just
got their first bike lanes ever. The lefty bike advocates were
vehemently anti-facility for decades.
> There are bike lanes I
> like. Don't get me wrong -- but they are simple facilities adjacent
> to the travel lane that are the equivalent of wide shoulders.
> Assuming that they provide real right-of-way is a mistake, so I ride
> as though I am on a shoulder and assume cars will pull across them, in
> to them and generally do whatever they want to do. -- Jay Beattie.
I wish we had Portland's safety stats.
Peter Cole
What's the budget? What's the modal share?
Jay Beattie
> On 3/2/2011 1:25 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 2, 9:10 am, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On 3/1/2011 11:42 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>
> >>> On Mar 1, 5:14 pm, T m Sherm n _<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
> >>> $southslope.net"> wrote:
> >>>> See<http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>
> >>>> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
> >>>> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
> >>>> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>
> >>> Lefties did this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
> >>> and slide"?http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/
>
> >> "Lefties"? How do you know that?
>
> >> FWIW, those examples look fine to me, your objections aren't obvious.
>
> >>> Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
> >>> the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
> >>> holes. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> >> Might have to raise taxes...
>
> > Picture one: "cycletrack between curb and parked cars. Cars take
> > curb anyway, so we end up with two lanes of parked cars and no bicycle
> > facility. Past iteration was simple bike lane outside of curb
> > parking. Worked fine. The "cycletracks" are dangerous chutes
> > cluttered with cars and pedestrians. They are the most dangerous
> > places to ride in the city.
>
> Stats?
Here's a synopsis of the journal article: "Based on a 25 year study
performed by 6 day a week bicyclist with two advanced degrees, bicycle
chutes were determined to be more dangerous than ordinary bicycle
lanes or roadways with wide shoulders. Although study involved small
cohort, findings were confirmed by common sense and simple
observation." Beattie, Jay W., "Why Bicycle Chutes are F******
Dangerous," 1 Journal of Stupid Bicycle Infrastructure, Vol 1, Winter-
Spring 2011. See www.JSBI.com
>
> That's not been the experience from what I gather in NYC.
>
>
>
> > Picture two: two-way bicyle traffic in narrow bicycle lanes
> > surrounded by traffic including busses. Prior iteration -- a road
> > that was plenty safe and simple.
>
> > Picture three: Slip n' slide blue applied coating that is dangerous
> > in the rain. We get a lot of rain.
>
> Some coatings are/were slippery, but I was under (the perhaps mistaken)
> impression that that problem had been solved.
>
> > Why lefties: It's Portland for gawdsake.
>
> If there's any place "lefter" than Portland, it's Boston, and they just
> got their first bike lanes ever. The lefty bike advocates were
> vehemently anti-facility for decades.
>
> > There are bike lanes I
> > like. Don't get me wrong -- but they are simple facilities adjacent
> > to the travel lane that are the equivalent of wide shoulders.
> > Assuming that they provide real right-of-way is a mistake, so I ride
> > as though I am on a shoulder and assume cars will pull across them, in
> > to them and generally do whatever they want to do. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> I wish we had Portland's safety stats.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
We clearly are not the East Coast -- and I think we have a fairly low
rate of aggressive behavior by motorists, and there is a high degree
of traffic law compliance, at least compared to NYC. Regrettably, we
have more than our share of distracted pedestrians who step off the
curb in to the bicycle chute -- one of which runs right in front of
Portland State University, iPod wearing slacker capitol of the world.
-- Jay.
Peter Cole
> On Mar 1, 8:57 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
> $southslope.net"> wrote:
>> On 3/1/2011 10:42 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 1, 5:14 pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
>>> $southslope.net"> wrote:
>>>> See<http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>>
>>>> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
>>>> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
>>>> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>>
>>> Lefties did this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/loewenherz/3331886473/ Can you say "slip
>>> and slide"?http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/
>>
>>> Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
>>> the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
>>> holes. -- Jay Beattie.
>>
>> Bicycle farcilities (sic) were originated as a way to confine cyclists
>> to an area inferior to the motor vehicles, which is hardly a left-wing
>> position.
>>
>> Remember, bicycle lanes were built in the Netherlands by order of the
>> Nazi [1] occupation, to keep bicycles out of the way of motor traffic.
>>
>> [1] And only revisionist liars consider the Nazi's left-wing.
>>
> The obligation to spend public funds on bicycle facilities -- no
> matter how bad -- is a lefty invention.
Obligation? How about decision?
> The right would do nothing.
That's a pretty broad claim.
> The true small government states like Idaho have some dreadful roads.
> I believe in spending money to make road surfaces rideable. I swear
> that if I get killed on my bike, it is going to be while riding home
> at night in the rain over crappy road surface. I don't need no
> stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.
I don't see the zero-sum argument. A reasonable, pragmatic approach
would seem to be to fund facilities by modal share, adjusted to promote
majority wishes for specific goals. I don't know of any cyclists who are
indifferent to potholes, while the majority seem to favor facilities. If
people want bike facilities and good pavement, they just have to pay for
both. It has been done. Portland isn't poor, just cheap. That's hard to
find sympathy for.
Peter Cole
> The obligation to spend public funds on bicycle facilities -- no
> matter how bad -- is a lefty invention. The right would do nothing.
> The true small government states like Idaho have some dreadful roads.
> I believe in spending money to make road surfaces rideable. I swear
> that if I get killed on my bike, it is going to be while riding home
> at night in the rain over crappy road surface. I don't need no
> stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.
You probably don't in Portland, most of it anyway, but people seem to
like them. The city of Portland is pretty spread out, low density by our
standards (about 25% of Boston). Bike facilities are pretty much an
urban thing -- not much urban in Idaho, more than Portland, but not much
more.
Jay Beattie
> On 3/2/2011 12:24 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> $southslope.net"> wrote:
> >>>> See<http://www.bikeiowa.com/asp/hotnews/newsdisplay.asp?NewsID=4894>.
>
> >>>> Remember to thank the budget priorities of upper class tax cuts and
> >>>> subsidies, when your favorite rural riding routes change from pavement
> >>>> to road bike unfriendly aggregate surfacing.
>
> >>> Lefties did this:http://www.flickr.com/photos/vancespics/3912223571/
> >>> and slide"?http://www.flickr.com/photos/luton/879398610/
>
> >>> Sometimes I prefer it when people do not do me a favor. I wish that
> >>> the Lefties would agree with the Righties to just fix the f****** pot
> >>> holes. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> >> Bicycle farcilities (sic) were originated as a way to confine cyclists
> >> to an area inferior to the motor vehicles, which is hardly a left-wing
> >> position.
>
> >> Remember, bicycle lanes were built in the Netherlands by order of the
> >> Nazi [1] occupation, to keep bicycles out of the way of motor traffic.
>
> >> [1] And only revisionist liars consider the Nazi's left-wing.
>
> > The obligation to spend public funds on bicycle facilities -- no
> > matter how bad -- is a lefty invention.
>
> Obligation? How about decision?
Obligation in Oregon.ORS 366.514 -- the so-called
Bicycle Bill. Actually proposed by a Republican state representative,
but he was an avid bicyclist and therefore a Lefty, kind of like
Lincoln. http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEPED/bike_bill.shtml
Note:
The Oregon Court of Appeals upheld the intent of this statute in
Bicycle Transportation Alliance v. City of Portland (9309-05777; CA
A82770). The judge's summary was: "Read as a whole, ORS 366.514
requires that when an agency receives state highway funds and
constructs, reconstructs or relocates highways, roads or streets, it
must expend a reasonable amount of those funds, as necessary, on
bicycle and pedestrian facilities. The statue also requires the agency
to spend no less than one percent per fiscal year on such facilities,
unless relieved of that obligation by one of the exceptions in
subsection (2)."
I wrote and argued that appeal . . . and won. I'm a lefty, but even I
have gotten to the point where I think a lot of the infrastructure is
stupid -- not just wasteful, but affirmatively bad for me as a
cyclist.
>
> > The right would do nothing.
>
> That's a pretty broad claim.
It is . . . I'm talking far right.
>
> > The true small government states like Idaho have some dreadful roads.
> > I believe in spending money to make road surfaces rideable. I swear
> > that if I get killed on my bike, it is going to be while riding home
> > at night in the rain over crappy road surface. I don't need no
> > stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> I don't see the zero-sum argument. A reasonable, pragmatic approach
> would seem to be to fund facilities by modal share, adjusted to promote
> majority wishes for specific goals. I don't know of any cyclists who are
> indifferent to potholes, while the majority seem to favor facilities. If
> people want bike facilities and good pavement, they just have to pay for
> both. It has been done. Portland isn't poor, just cheap. That's hard to
> find sympathy for.- Hide quoted text -
>
We're cheap? You're f****** nuts! My water bill (which is used to
pay for some bicycle infrastructure), property taxes and state income
taxes and now increased gas taxes say otherwise. Personally, I see no
need to waste money on goofy signs, boxes, arrows, lines, etc., unless
you are laying out a basketball court or square dancing class. We
have finite resources and should put them to work filling pot holes
rather than putting sharrows on streets so narrow that you couldn't
share them with a skateboard. -- Jay Beattie.
Edward Dolan
news:406f39da-a9af-47d4...@o21g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
[...]
We're cheap? You're f****** nuts! My water bill (which is used to
pay for some bicycle infrastructure), property taxes and state income
taxes and now increased gas taxes say otherwise. Personally, I see no
need to waste money on goofy signs, boxes, arrows, lines, etc., unless
you are laying out a basketball court or square dancing class. We
have finite resources and should put them to work filling pot holes
rather than putting sharrows on streets so narrow that you couldn't
share them with a skateboard. -- Jay Beattie.
Bicycle lanes are the pits. I simply don't believe in them. It is separate
bicycle paths or forget about it.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> "AMuzi"<a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
> news:ikkag6$jpm$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
> [...]
>> It may save space if you could just list one expenditure that doesn't
>> diminish our quality of life and punish the innocent taxpayer
>>
>> If or when you find one.
>
> Andrew, where have you been all of my life? I think you are a genius on my
> level, except you say everything better than I could, no small feat.
Andy only sells horsey position bikes, e.g.
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/19704682@N08/3601423733/in/set-72157619269876565/>.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> "Zarniwoop"<fiet...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d796587f-fc86-447c...@t19g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> [...]
>
>> Tom obviously doesn't know Deutsche is not the same as Dutch.
>
> Trust me on this, Tom Sherman is one smart cookie and knows full well all
> about Europe and its idiosyncrasies.
>
> Why do the Dutch have a somewhat different language than the Germans? It is
> so close, yet just far enough apart as to constitute a different language.
> It is what drives us continental Americans crazy about Europe.
Dutch: Ligfiets, Ligfietsen
Deutsche: Liegerad, Liegeräder
All other vocabulary is unnecessary. ;)
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> "T�m Sherm�nT �_�"<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote in
Wall Street produces no added value, leading to the obvious conclusion
that the investment bankers are merely parasites sucking the economic
blood out of the working classes.
The original purpose of the stock market allowing corporations to raise
capital has been perverted into the world's largest de facto gambling
operation and Ponzi scheme.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> "T�m Sherm�n� �_�"<""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote in
The USian economy of 40 to 60 years ago worked better for 99% of the
people than the current version does.
Edward Dolan
message news:ikn5n8$q86$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 3/2/2011 12:01 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
>> Frankly, I do not understand how Wall Street works at all. I would never
>> give those bastards a single penny.
>
> Wall Street produces no added value, leading to the obvious conclusion
> that the investment bankers are merely parasites sucking the economic
> blood out of the working classes.
>
> The original purpose of the stock market allowing corporations to raise
> capital has been perverted into the world's largest de facto gambling
> operation and Ponzi scheme.
Hells Bells, I think the entire federal government is one giant Ponzi
scheme.
Edward Dolan
"Tºm ShermªnT °_°" <""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI$southslope.net"> wrote in
message news:ikn5pv$q86$2...@news.eternal-september.org...
> On 3/2/2011 12:09 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
The years following WWII were a golden age for America. It has been all down
hill ever since, mainly because our politicians just keep getting stupider
and stupider. Hey, I like Ike!
Frank Krygowski
>
> I wish we had Portland's safety stats.
Is Boston unusually dangerous?
- Frank Krygowski
Frank Krygowski
> On 3/2/2011 12:24 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
> > I don't need no
> > stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> You probably don't in Portland, most of it anyway, but people seem to
> like them.
People tend to like what people are told they should like. Ask any
advertising professional.
As further proof: People used to like bell bottom pants and afros on
white dudes.
- Frank Krygowski
RobertH
$southslope.net"> wrote:
> Bicycle farcilities (sic) were originated as a way to confine cyclists
> to an area inferior to the motor vehicles, which is hardly a left-wing
> position.
False, bicycle facilities were originated by bicyclists before motor
vehicles existed. But don't let that stop ya.
Peter Cole
Yes, so it was a decision, made by Oregon, not imposed on Oregon.
>
> Note:
>
> The Oregon Court of Appeals upheld the intent of this statute in
> Bicycle Transportation Alliance v. City of Portland (9309-05777; CA
> A82770). The judge's summary was: "Read as a whole, ORS 366.514
> requires that when an agency receives state highway funds and
> constructs, reconstructs or relocates highways, roads or streets, it
> must expend a reasonable amount of those funds, as necessary, on
> bicycle and pedestrian facilities. The statue also requires the agency
> to spend no less than one percent per fiscal year on such facilities,
> unless relieved of that obligation by one of the exceptions in
> subsection (2)."
Sounds good, as far as it went. One percent is pretty low when modal
share is six.
> I wrote and argued that appeal . . . and won. I'm a lefty, but even I
> have gotten to the point where I think a lot of the infrastructure is
> stupid -- not just wasteful, but affirmatively bad for me as a
> cyclist.
But apparently wildly popular among other cyclists. I'm afraid that
remodeling the world according to your tastes will have to wait for your
coronation.
>>> The right would do nothing.
>>
>> That's a pretty broad claim.
>
> It is . . . I'm talking far right.
These day, the "far right" seems capable of anything.
>>
>>> The true small government states like Idaho have some dreadful roads.
>>> I believe in spending money to make road surfaces rideable. I swear
>>> that if I get killed on my bike, it is going to be while riding home
>>> at night in the rain over crappy road surface. I don't need no
>>> stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.
>>
>> I don't see the zero-sum argument. A reasonable, pragmatic approach
>> would seem to be to fund facilities by modal share, adjusted to promote
>> majority wishes for specific goals. I don't know of any cyclists who are
>> indifferent to potholes, while the majority seem to favor facilities. If
>> people want bike facilities and good pavement, they just have to pay for
>> both. It has been done. Portland isn't poor, just cheap. That's hard to
>> find sympathy for.- Hide quoted text -
>>
> We're cheap? You're f****** nuts! My water bill (which is used to
> pay for some bicycle infrastructure), property taxes and state income
> taxes and now increased gas taxes say otherwise.
Compared to what? Idaho? You really want Idaho-class infrastructure?
Good luck with that.
> Personally, I see no
> need to waste money on goofy signs, boxes, arrows, lines, etc., unless
> you are laying out a basketball court or square dancing class.
Make it your first post-coronation decree then.
> We
> have finite resources and should put them to work filling pot holes
> rather than putting sharrows on streets so narrow that you couldn't
> share them with a skateboard. -- Jay Beattie.
All resources are finite, but it doesn't follow that sharrows mean
unfilled pot holes. If you want to play, you've got to pay. Cycling
budgets are a pittance, motor vehicle infrastructure and "externalized"
costs are enormous in comparison and hardly fairly shared. You sound
awfully right-eous for a self-described lefty.
Peter Cole
Capitalism inherently involves gambling, so does life.
Peter Cole
I think that's more than a bit of an overstatement. It's true that
income and wealth inequality is a broad economic problem, not only
ethical, but also structural in consequence. Much of the increasing
concentration of wealth in the hands of the few has to do with the game
having been loaded in recent decades by the wealthy and their ability to
engender support from the non-wealthy for that through propaganda. See
the Koch bros. for a current example.
Capitalism is natural, but so are droughts and floods. Water is neither
inherently good or bad, but the scarcity or surpluses can be. We're
clever monkeys, we can tame the beast if we just use that thing between
our ears.
Peter Cole
> On Mar 2, 4:34 pm, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> I wish we had Portland's safety stats.
>
> Is Boston unusually dangerous?
Compared to Portland.
Peter Cole
> On Mar 2, 5:28 pm, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 3/2/2011 12:24 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>>> I don't need no
>>> stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.
>>
>> You probably don't in Portland, most of it anyway, but people seem to
>> like them.
>
> People tend to like what people are told they should like. Ask any
> advertising professional.
More. Beam. Eye.
>
> As further proof: People used to like bell bottom pants and afros on
> white dudes.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
You did?
Jay Beattie
> On 3/2/2011 6:18 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
<big snip>
> >>> The obligation to spend public funds on bicycle facilities -- no
> >>> matter how bad -- is a lefty invention.
>
> >> Obligation? How about decision?
>
> > Obligation in Oregon.ORS 366.514 -- the so-called
> > Bicycle Bill. Actually proposed by a Republican state representative,
> > but he was an avid bicyclist and therefore a Lefty, kind of like
> > Lincoln.http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEPED/bike_bill.shtml
>
> Yes, so it was a decision, made by Oregon, not imposed on Oregon.
The law imposes an obligation -- it is non-discretionary. It was
passed as a law, meaning there was legislative support. It was not
referred to the people for a vote. So, as with all laws, it was a
decision "made by Oregon." Social Security was a "decision made by the
United States," but that does not mean it was not a lefty invention.
The Bush tax cuts were a "decision made by the United States" . . .
>
>
>
> > Note:
>
> > The Oregon Court of Appeals upheld the intent of this statute in
> > Bicycle Transportation Alliance v. City of Portland (9309-05777; CA
> > A82770). The judge's summary was: "Read as a whole, ORS 366.514
> > requires that when an agency receives state highway funds and
> > constructs, reconstructs or relocates highways, roads or streets, it
> > must expend a reasonable amount of those funds, as necessary, on
> > bicycle and pedestrian facilities. The statue also requires the agency
> > to spend no less than one percent per fiscal year on such facilities,
> > unless relieved of that obligation by one of the exceptions in
> > subsection (2)."
>
> Sounds good, as far as it went. One percent is pretty low when modal
> share is six.
>
> > I wrote and argued that appeal . . . and won. I'm a lefty, but even I
> > have gotten to the point where I think a lot of the infrastructure is
> > stupid -- not just wasteful, but affirmatively bad for me as a
> > cyclist.
>
> But apparently wildly popular among other cyclists. I'm afraid that
> remodeling the world according to your tastes will have to wait for your
> coronation.
Wildly popular? Now Peter, have you been polling all my co-horts? I
don't know a single cyclist who likes the bicycle chute or the new 5th
Ave run-the-gauntlet, dodge trains, busses and cars bicycle lane.
Really, I ride a bike lane out of downtown that has me go up on a
sidewalk and down on to a road in front of turning cars and streetcars
-- neither of which can see me coming.
I think the Barbur bike lane may be popular, but it is just a plain
old bike lane -- same with Terwilliger. Like I said, the plain old
bike lanes from 15+ years ago work fine -- except where the road
surface is wrecked.
I will. Actually, I could propose legislation that would probably
pass.
> > We
> > have finite resources and should put them to work filling pot holes
> > rather than putting sharrows on streets so narrow that you couldn't
> > share them with a skateboard. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> All resources are finite, but it doesn't follow that sharrows mean
> unfilled pot holes. If you want to play, you've got to pay. Cycling
> budgets are a pittance, motor vehicle infrastructure and "externalized"
> costs are enormous in comparison and hardly fairly shared. You sound
> awfully right-eous for a self-described lefty.- Hide quoted text -
Are you advocating wasting money? Sharrow money could be put to
other, more productive use -- which would be just about anything.
Really, how is an arrow on a 10 foot wide goat path through the West
Hills helpful? IIRC, this road now has sharrows:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinwagoner/3412248263/in/photostream/
Frank Krygowski
You mean those facilities called "paved roads"? Bicyclists lobbied
for them, but very few of them were segregated, bike-only
facilities.
- Frank Krygowski
Frank Krygowski
By that standard, there is only one place on earth that's safe
enough. That's whatever town currently has the absolute best safety
ranking.
No, I don't know where it is; but I guess residents of any other
location are supposed to be wringing their hands in fear.
- Frank Krygowski
Frank Krygowski
> On 3/3/2011 12:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
> > On Mar 2, 5:28 pm, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On 3/2/2011 12:24 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
> >>> I don't need no
> >>> stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> >> You probably don't in Portland, most of it anyway, but people seem to
> >> like them.
>
> > People tend to like what people are told they should like. Ask any
> > advertising professional.
>
> More. Beam. Eye.
???
We need PUI laws, I think! (Posting Under the Influence.) ;-)
- Frank Krygowski
Peter Cole
> On Mar 3, 5:39 am, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 3/2/2011 6:18 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>
>
> <big snip>
>
>>>>> The obligation to spend public funds on bicycle facilities -- no
>>>>> matter how bad -- is a lefty invention.
>>
>>>> Obligation? How about decision?
>>
>>> Obligation in Oregon.ORS 366.514 -- the so-called
>>> Bicycle Bill. Actually proposed by a Republican state representative,
>>> but he was an avid bicyclist and therefore a Lefty, kind of like
>>> Lincoln.http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEPED/bike_bill.shtml
>>
>> Yes, so it was a decision, made by Oregon, not imposed on Oregon.
>
> The law imposes an obligation -- it is non-discretionary. It was
> passed as a law, meaning there was legislative support. It was not
> referred to the people for a vote. So, as with all laws, it was a
> decision "made by Oregon." Social Security was a "decision made by the
> United States," but that does not mean it was not a lefty invention.
> The Bush tax cuts were a "decision made by the United States" . . .
Yes, and as far as I know, all of your examples represent decisions
supported by majorities. AKA democracy.
>> But apparently wildly popular among other cyclists. I'm afraid that
>> remodeling the world according to your tastes will have to wait for your
>> coronation.
>
> Wildly popular? Now Peter, have you been polling all my co-horts? I
> don't know a single cyclist who likes the bicycle chute or the new 5th
> Ave run-the-gauntlet, dodge trains, busses and cars bicycle lane.
> Really, I ride a bike lane out of downtown that has me go up on a
> sidewalk and down on to a road in front of turning cars and streetcars
> -- neither of which can see me coming.
>
> I think the Barbur bike lane may be popular, but it is just a plain
> old bike lane -- same with Terwilliger. Like I said, the plain old
> bike lanes from 15+ years ago work fine -- except where the road
> surface is wrecked.
I'm not a Portland resident, so obviously not familiar enough with your
specific examples to offer an opinion, but I find your insinuation of a
cabal to be implausible.
>>> We're cheap? You're f****** nuts! My water bill (which is used to
>>> pay for some bicycle infrastructure), property taxes and state income
>>> taxes and now increased gas taxes say otherwise.
>>
>> Compared to what? Idaho? You really want Idaho-class infrastructure?
>> Good luck with that.
>>
>>> Personally, I see no
>>> need to waste money on goofy signs, boxes, arrows, lines, etc., unless
>>> you are laying out a basketball court or square dancing class.
>>
>> Make it your first post-coronation decree then.
>
> I will. Actually, I could propose legislation that would probably
> pass.
Good luck, then.
>> All resources are finite, but it doesn't follow that sharrows mean
>> unfilled pot holes. If you want to play, you've got to pay. Cycling
>> budgets are a pittance, motor vehicle infrastructure and "externalized"
>> costs are enormous in comparison and hardly fairly shared. You sound
>> awfully right-eous for a self-described lefty.- Hide quoted text -
>
> Are you advocating wasting money? Sharrow money could be put to
> other, more productive use -- which would be just about anything.
> Really, how is an arrow on a 10 foot wide goat path through the West
> Hills helpful? IIRC, this road now has sharrows:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinwagoner/3412248263/in/photostream/
I'm not a fan of sharrows, either, nor of wasting money, but I find your
protestations much ado about nothing (comparatively).
Peter Cole
Yes, we've made significant progress since then.
Peter Cole
> On Mar 3, 9:13 am, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 3/3/2011 12:47 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>
>>> On Mar 2, 4:34 pm, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> I wish we had Portland's safety stats.
>>
>>> Is Boston unusually dangerous?
>>
>> Compared to Portland.
>
> By that standard, there is only one place on earth that's safe
> enough. That's whatever town currently has the absolute best safety
> ranking.
That's a truly bizarre bit of pseudo-logic.
> No, I don't know where it is; but I guess residents of any other
> location are supposed to be wringing their hands in fear.
No, just learning from example.
AMuzi
> On 3/2/2011 12:01 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
In theory there is added value in distribution of
information and enhancing more efficient capital allocation.
At one time those were true. To our great benefit.
We seldom agree but I do on this. It's sadly obvious now.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Peter Cole
Capitalism is fine, it just needs to be injected with a little socialism
to take the rough edges off. This is the clear lesson from the not so
distant past. As exhibit "A", I'd give the Eastern hybrid that's
currently kicking our collective Western asses (economically). Not that
that particular flavor would be my first choice, but nothing succeeds
like success...
Peter Cole
Sorry should have been "mote", not "more".
If that's still not clear, I'd add that propaganda cuts both ways.
AMuzi
Socialism works in the East, with our help.
Sarbanes-Oxley and Dodd-Frank are some of China's best
resources.
Frank Krygowski
> On 3/3/2011 12:09 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
> > On Mar 3, 9:13 am, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On 3/3/2011 12:47 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
> >>> On Mar 2, 4:34 pm, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> I wish we had Portland's safety stats.
>
> >>> Is Boston unusually dangerous?
>
> >> Compared to Portland.
>
> > By that standard, there is only one place on earth that's safe
> > enough. That's whatever town currently has the absolute best safety
> > ranking.
>
> That's a truly bizarre bit of pseudo-logic.
I know. And it's one that's invoked frequently by the "We must have
segregated facilities everywhere!!!" crowd.
By their logic, since (say) Germany has fewer fatalities per mile
ridden than the US, the US is obviously not safe enough, and we _must_
do something radical to fix it. That's their claim, no matter how
many millions of miles are ridden between US bike fatalities.
Carry that logic to its extreme, and you'll find only one place on
earth that's "safe enough."
- Frank Krygowski
Peter Cole
Last I heard US corporations were doing fine, even adding lots of jobs,
just not here. That stuff just doesn't fly in China. The minority still
beating the deregulation drum is oblivious to the most highly regulated
economy in the world -- and the fastest growing.
Peter Cole
I didn't bring up the topic of safety, Jay did. I find facilities more
pleasant, and there doesn't seem to be a safety downside.
James
And it's certainly not my bed. I will need to get out of it at some
time and risk dying in the attempt.
I may become an ex-parrot, pining for the fjords.
JS.
Andre Jute
I'm an ex-parrot, and I can't say I pine for the bushfires, or even
for Melbourne's unpredictable weather. Many's the day that just
walking from St Vincent Place, at the end of Albert Park nearest the
city, to Collins Lane, I successively got baked and soaked, and one
day at the Governor's garden party snow started falling out of a clear
summer sky. But I see in passing that Melbourne is now rated the best
city in the world to live in. Clearly they didn't ask cyclists.
My fave city in Australia is Adelaide, but I never tried to cycle
there, though I knew some guys who commuted to college across the
Mighty Torrens by bike from about a mile away. I think from anywhere
on the edge of the green belt might be good commuting, in Adelaide,
though not on race days if you live on the racecourse side, as I did.
André Jute
Exparrot - very colourful
Frank Krygowski
>
> I didn't bring up the topic of safety, Jay did.
Yes, Jay pointed to some hazards of particularly weird bike
facilities. But you were the one who brought up comparative
statistics envy. "I wish we had Portland's safety stats," IIRC.
>I find facilities more
> pleasant, and there doesn't seem to be a safety downside.
That's whitewashing with a very broad brush. Safety downsides of
various badly-conceived facilities have been discussed here often.
You're one small step away from "Any bike facility is a good bike
facility," which is no more sensible than "If Portland is safer,
Boston must be too dangerous." At least, qualify your enthusiasm.
- Frank Krygowski
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
The advocacy for deregulation is based on ideology and not economics -
the corporate barons do not want any restrictions put on them by the
working peasants.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
Dan O
I thought he was plenty clear that Boston and other places could
benefit from progressive examples.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> [...]
> Are you advocating wasting money? Sharrow money could be put to
> other, more productive use -- which would be just about anything.
Real life Spike Bike patrols would be my choice.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> On Mar 2, 5:28 pm, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> On 3/2/2011 12:24 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
>>> I don't need no
>>> stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.
>>
>> You probably don't in Portland, most of it anyway, but people seem to
>> like them.
>
> People tend to like what people are told they should like. Ask any
> advertising professional.
>
> white dudes.
I hated those things back when they were popular.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> [...]
> Mo[t]e. Beam. Eye.[...]
How does the Kentucky bourbon fit in?
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
Yes, progress in herding cyclists into separate and unequal ghettos.
Dan O
$southslope.net"> wrote:
> On 3/2/2011 11:52 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
> > On Mar 2, 5:28 pm, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >> On 3/2/2011 12:24 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:
> >>> I don't need no
> >>> stink'n lanes. I need smooth asphalt. -- Jay Beattie.
>
> >> You probably don't in Portland, most of it anyway, but people seem to
> >> like them.
>
> > People tend to like what people are told they should like. Ask any
> > advertising professional.
>
> > As further proof: People used to like bell bottom pants and afros on
> > white dudes.
>
> I hated those things back when they were popular.
>
I like(d) bell bottoms. You'd think they'd catch in the chain more,
but you could flap them out and the airflow would hold them there; and
when they *did* catch you could still move your foot so far laterally
to clear the pedal and roll them right around and out without even
getting off the bike. (Mine got to be pretty gnarly looking at the
cuffs.)
AMuzi
With significantly fewer horseshoe nails stuck in horse poop
on our roads now.
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°
> Tºm Shermªn™ °_° > wrote:
>> On 3/3/2011 11:31 AM, Peter Cole wrote:
>>> Yes, we've made significant progress since then.
>>
>> Yes, progress in herding cyclists into separate and unequal ghettos.
>
>
> With significantly fewer horseshoe nails stuck in horse poop on our
> roads now.
>
<http://www.bunbag.com/>
<http://www.equisan.com.au/>
Edward Dolan
message news:ikpffu$bdk$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
[...]
> The advocacy for deregulation is based on ideology and not economics - the
> corporate barons do not want any restrictions put on them by the working
> peasants.
Mr. Sherman could learn a few things by listening to Muzi and Cole, but
there are none so blind and deaf as an ideologue. When working peasants rule
the roost, all is disaster. Nope, small town lawyers make the best rulers.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Peter Cole
> On Mar 3, 4:14 pm, Peter Cole<peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> I didn't bring up the topic of safety, Jay did.
>
> Yes, Jay pointed to some hazards of particularly weird bike
> facilities. But you were the one who brought up comparative
> statistics envy. "I wish we had Portland's safety stats," IIRC.
Yes, that's accurate.
>
>> I find facilities more
>> pleasant, and there doesn't seem to be a safety downside.
>
> That's whitewashing with a very broad brush. Safety downsides of
> various badly-conceived facilities have been discussed here often.
>
> You're one small step away from "Any bike facility is a good bike
> facility," which is no more sensible than "If Portland is safer,
> Boston must be too dangerous." At least, qualify your enthusiasm.
No, I'm not. All I'm saying is, that with all it's flaws, Portland is
still safer than Boston, which has virtually no facilities.
Peter Cole
Right, in the same way I find myself herded onto the beach ghettos
during the summer and the mountain ghettos in winter. Read the studies,
cyclists will go well out of their way to use facilities. You can go the
opposite if you choose, no one is herding anyone.
Jay Beattie
The real question, though, is whether Portland is any safer with
bicycle facilities -- which would be a really hard thing to determine,
particularly with the increased number of riders, some of whom are
riding in to each other.
Facilities as such don't make a lot of difference, IMO. A wide
shoulder and compliant drivers are what makes a difference. If that
shoulder is a marked bike lane, that's fine with me -- it gives me
some legal protection if I get hooked, but practically speaking, more
driver education is required before it gives me much actual or
practical protection. Green boxes, sharrows, etc. make no difference
to me as a cyclist, except that they present slipping hazards when
wet. Separate facilities are populated with walkers and their dogs, so
they are more dangerous in some respects and certainly slower. -- Jay
Beattie.
RobertH
> they are more dangerous in some respects and certainly slower. -- Jay
> Beattie.
For the types of facilities you mention yes.
But I'm about to get on a fully-separated, intersectionless bike path
which provides, by far, the fastest route to where I need to go.
http://www.industrializedcyclist.com/11108_Denvers_Cherry_Crk.html
Using the parallel surface street, I would have to sit through about
five or ten red lights to get to the same place.
Frank Krygowski
>
> Read the studies,
> cyclists will go well out of their way to use facilities.
Yep. If you spend ten years telling cyclists "We need bike lanes to
be safe," then put in a bike lane, cyclists will say "Oooh, that's
what _I'm_ going to use, to be safe!" They'll do that even if data
clearly shows there's no increase in safety.
This technique also works for selling underarm deodorant, funny foam
plastic hats, and St. Christopher medals.
- Frank Krygowski
Peter Cole
I find that, all else being equal, the more segregated, the more I like
it. I think most people feel that way. As for safety, I don't think it's
practical to micro-analyze things, what's important is the aggregate --
how many people are riding and how many are getting killed or injured.
If I can have access to a facility that's more pleasant and doesn't have
a safety downside, I'm happy.
Peter Cole
I'll go out of my way to use facilities, and I think I'm as educated
about bike safety as I can be. I don't think I'm particularly dumb or
gullible, either. I can't speak for the rest of the planet.
AMuzi
Well written. I'm totally with Jay on this.
AMuzi
Yeah great.
In the city, cute unless I need to go to work or the grocery
or the paint store or bank or whatever.
Given a choice of bike trail or a real county road, I'll
take the road thanks.
YMMV, except I have to pay for all that.
Dan O
Sure, and I can take it or leave it myself (Mad Max on two wheels :-),
but what they're doing is trying a *lot* of new stuff. Some of it
will work, some won't, none of it will be perfect; but it will provide
lessons, hopefully some good thinking will go into it, and continuous
improvement will happen. Change is messy, but the current car-centric
(what an understatement!) way has got to change, and they're actually
doing something.
Peter Cole
Unlike Jay though, the cyclists who do use those nasty paths support
your shop (unless you ban them on ideological grounds).