Oldest Racer in SF?
Ken Papai
Darren Baker? Rolf Aldag? ;-)
Anyone over 40 years old? What about the Webcor roster?
Anyone younger than Sterling Magnell (Sierra Nevada BREWING COMPANY)?
-Ken
DanSchmatz
Ken Papai
Mark VandenBerghe
Isn't Gord Fraser a 35+ masters fattie?
Mark VandenBerghe
"Ken Papai" <k...@kenpapai.com> wrote in message
news:NVI9b.473981$YN5.323080@sccrnsc01...
Kurgan Gringioni
"Mark VandenBerghe" <ma...@vdbprop.com> wrote in message
news:yoK9b.9$3r1....@nntp1-sf.pbi.net...
> Well, Linda Elgart was on the start list for Webcor. Alas no one told her.
>
> Isn't Gord Fraser a 35+ masters fattie?
This is just my personal opinion: I don't consider Ekimov, Museeuw, Gord or
Malcom Elliot to be Masters Fatties. Those guys are the opposite of the
Masters Fattie, not conceding anything to age.
Joshua Zlotlow
>From: "Mark VandenBerghe" ma...@vdbprop.com
>Date: 9/16/03 1:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <yoK9b.9$3r1....@nntp1-sf.pbi.net>
>
>Well, Linda Elgart was on the start list for Webcor. Alas no one told her.
She knew. She didn't race because she didn't consider herself in good enough
shape for it.
Josh Zlotlow
JAZl...@aol.com
Sacramento, California
Sacramento Golden Wheelmen
www.sacgw.com
Ken Papai
"Joshua Zlotlow" <jazlotlow@@mb-m13.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: Oldest Racer in SF?
> >From: "Mark VandenBerghe" ma...@vdbprop.com
> >Date: 9/16/03 1:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <yoK9b.9$3r1....@nntp1-sf.pbi.net>
> >
> >Well, Linda Elgart was on the start list for Webcor. Alas no one told
her.
>
> She knew. She didn't race because she didn't consider herself in good
enough
> shape for it.
Who is this on Team Fuji here:
http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2003/women/last0602.jpg
I thought the women's race required at least a Cat. 2 ??
Those two full water bottles look pretty optimistic.
"What, someone said there were freaking HILLS in San Francisco?!"
-kjp
Kurgan Gringioni
>
> "Joshua Zlotlow" <jazlotlow@@mb-m13.aol.com...
> > >Subject: Re: Oldest Racer in SF?
> > >From: "Mark VandenBerghe" ma...@vdbprop.com
> > >Date: 9/16/03 1:29 PM Pacific Daylight Time
> > >Message-id: <yoK9b.9$3r1....@nntp1-sf.pbi.net>
> > >
> > >Well, Linda Elgart was on the start list for Webcor. Alas no one told
> her.
> >
> > She knew. She didn't race because she didn't consider herself in good
> enough
> > shape for it.
>
> Who is this on Team Fuji here:
>
> http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2003/women/last0602.jpg
Goddamm.
That is what I'd call Masters Fattie.
Jonathan v.d. Sluis
20030916153213...@mb-m07.aol.com...
> how old is eki?
Too old to be called that.
Bruce Johnston
I thought Catherine Marsal was looking chubby. This girl needs to hit the
high sierra training camp.
Mark VandenBerghe
Mark VandenBerghe
"Ken Papai" <k...@kenpapai.com> wrote in message
news:gZK9b.479547$uu5.82518@sccrnsc04...
Tom Kunich
news:20030916153213...@mb-m07.aol.com...
> how old is eki?
38 as is Flash I think.
Tom Kunich
gearing was surprisingly high with almost everyone with at least a 30
or 32 and many triples.
But I'd like to point out that the first year of the men's race we saw
the same thing.
"Ken Papai" <k...@kenpapai.com> wrote in message
news:gZK9b.479547$uu5.82518@sccrnsc04...
Tom Kunich
I was coming up Corral Hollow Rd from Tracy and I stopped at the
motorcycle park because someone in the group had to use the can. This
HUGE HUGE HUGE fat guy came riding by. He was 300 lbs if he was an
ounce. He and a very fit looking friend rode by and a couple of
minutes after we headed out after them. It was something like three
miles from there to the top including some 15%+ steeps and when I got
to the top ahead of everyone else in my group that fat guy had been up
there so long that any sweat he might have produced was completely
dry. His hair was combed and he was laughing and joking with a tired
looking thin buddy.
Someone mentioned that Dutchman in the Vuelta that is nicknamed
"Chicken" because he has such skinny legs. And yet he won a stage.
You can't tell about people by looking at them.
"Mark VandenBerghe" <ma...@vdbprop.com> wrote in message
news:IQM9b.10$3r1....@nntp1-sf.pbi.net...
Casey Kerrigan
<ma...@vdbprop.com> wrote:
> Ken, she wasn't really in the race was she? That's a spectator, right?
>
> Mark VandenBerghe
>
>
If you look close enough you can see what look like a frame number that
must be attached to her seatpoast since the number is back under the
seat. you can just see a bit of the lovely pink of a number.
Ken Papai
"Mark VandenBerghe" <ma...@3r1.5656@nntp1-sf.pbi.net...
> Ken, she wasn't really in the race was she? That's a spectator, right?
Nope.
Team Fuji.
First lap... race over.
>
> Mark VandenBerghe
>
>
> "Ken Papai" <ken@.82518@sccrnsc04...
> >
> > "Joshua Zlotlow" <jazlotlow@@mb-m13.aol.com...
> > > >Subject: Re: Oldest Racer in SF?
karlwithak
Andy Coggan
I talked to her after the race, but didn't get her name. The pic was taken
after she pulled out of her pedal near the top of Fillmore - she said that
restarting on that grade didn't seem like a viable option, so there was no
choice but to walk.
Andy Coggan
Ken Papai
"karlwithak" <karlwithak@@posting.google.com...
> Darrren Baker did SF??
Yes he did. He didn't finish it though.
Here he is in green (Webcor) :
http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2003/peters0688.jpg
Ken Papai
"Andy Coggan" <acoggan.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Ken Papai" <ken@.82518@sccrnsc04...
> >
> > "Joshua Zlotlow" <jazlotlow@@mb-m13.aol.com...
>> >
> >
> > http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2003/women/last0602.jpg
> >
> > I thought the women's race required at least a Cat. 2 ??
> >
> > Those two full water bottles look pretty optimistic.
> >
> > "What, someone said there were freaking HILLS in San Francisco?!"
>
> I talked to her after the race, but didn't get her name. The pic was taken
> after she pulled out of her pedal near the top of Fillmore - she said that
Not that near the top -- she still had the huge final block to climb.
> restarting on that grade didn't seem like a viable option, so there was no
> choice but to walk.
I don't think there really was a choice.
Who wants to walk up a very steep street in racing shoes in front of 10,000
screaming lunatics who so high on the race?
Nick Burns
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
> > http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2003/women/last0602.jpg
>
> Goddamm.
>
>
> That is what I'd call Masters Fattie.
I have seen women with bodies like that on the women's criterium circuit,
but who does she think she is kidding trying to get over that course?
Michael
That's Bonnie Borque, a Cat 2 sprinter.
Add Eric Wohlberg (Saturn, Age 38) to the list of vets that still haul
Michael
>
> http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2003/women/last0602.jpg
>
> I thought the women's race required at least a Cat. 2 ??
The woman is Bonnie Borque, a Cat 2, great sprinter.
Add Eric Wohlberg (Saturn, age 38) to the list of very fast 35+ racers
on the SF start line.
Michael
gwhite
Dumbass,
How old is she?
Ewoud Dronkert
> Someone mentioned that Dutchman in the Vuelta that is nicknamed
> "Chicken" because he has such skinny legs. And yet he won a stage.
Danish actually, though he rides for Dutch team Rabobank.
cipo_chick
Diego area and has had less than steller results. She is from the East
coast originally and maybe was a decent rider back then when she was
in shape (big fish in a small pond), but recently she has been Cat
1/2/3 pack fill, when she does race. I think that she is in her mid to
late 20's.
bike...@hotmail.com (Michael) wrote in message news:<80ff14b1.03091...@posting.google.com>...
Scott Hendricks
> My, ain't you guys really beautiful?
>
> I was coming up Corral Hollow Rd from Tracy and I stopped at the
> motorcycle park because someone in the group had to use the can. This
> HUGE HUGE HUGE fat guy came riding by. He was 300 lbs if he was an
> ounce. He and a very fit looking friend rode by and a couple of
> minutes after we headed out after them. It was something like three
> miles from there to the top including some 15%+ steeps and when I got
> to the top ahead of everyone else in my group that fat guy had been up
> there so long that any sweat he might have produced was completely
> dry. His hair was combed and he was laughing and joking with a tired
> looking thin buddy.
>
> Someone mentioned that Dutchman in the Vuelta that is nicknamed
> "Chicken" because he has such skinny legs. And yet he won a stage.
>
> You can't tell about people by looking at them.
>
Well, that explains it: you were the first person in your group to
the top, which means the fat guy merely had to climb faster than a
bunch of slow people.
sabine
Carmen D'Alusio joked before the race that she and Gina Hall were
considering wearing mtb shoes as they could probably run the hill
faster than they could ride it.
Sabine
sabine
> Who was the oldest guy out there Sunday?
>
> Darren Baker? Rolf Aldag? ;-)
> Anyone over 40 years old? What about the Webcor roster?
>
> Anyone younger than Sterling Magnell (Sierra Nevada BREWING COMPANY)?
>
> -Ken
Not a guy, but Karen Brems is 41 I believe. She finished in the front group.
Sabine
MRiordan95
<kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>
>Goddamm.
>
>
>That is what I'd call Masters Fattie.
>
>
Where did you place?
Kurgan Gringioni
"MRiordan95" <mrior...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030917164335...@mb-m21.aol.com...
Dumbass -
Some of us Masters Fatties would have the sense not to enter an event like
that (if we were eligible).
Kurgan Gringioni
"sabine" <sabin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb3bb9f3.03091...@posting.google.com...
That Brems thing is annoying.
P. Brad Kurreck sounds better than P. Brad Brems.
PedalChick
> In the women's race they were all REALLY slow up Fillmore. And the
> gearing was surprisingly high with almost everyone with at least a 30
> or 32 and many triples.
Oh screw you, you freakin' cat 5 loser. Really slow? How come our
lap times were faster than the men's then? I'd like to see you haul
your masters fattie ass up that thing. Fool.
Stop bustin' on poor Bonnie - she was out there toeing the line - an
opportunity most of you fools will never have. You can't possibly
understand how hard that race was. Lots of women who are really big
fish in their local ponds got dropped on the first short laps.
Tom Kunich
> considering wearing mtb shoes as they could probably run the hill
> faster than they could ride it.
I don't doubt that. When you have guys like Gordon tacking back and
forth while in a 27 you know that is one hard hill.
That said a lot of the really hard part is because of the speed. I was
riding up it one time in a 42/24 and kneed the shift lever which
dropped my Super Record down into the 19. And there was a lot of
traffic on the street so there wasn't any of this bobbing and weaving.
The top part was REALLY a bitch in the 42/19 let me tell you.
I can't imagine having to climb at racing speed in front of a crowd
like that which keeps you so pumped up that you over reach yourself on
every lap.
Tom Kunich
news:3f67c926$0$35551$a32e...@news.nntpservers.com...
>
> I have seen women with bodies like that on the women's criterium
circuit,
> but who does she think she is kidding trying to get over that
course?
Someone that wanted to be in the inaugural event?
TritonRider
>Oh screw you, you freakin' cat 5 loser. Really slow? How come our
>lap times were faster than the men's then? I'd like to see you haul
>your masters fattie ass up that thing. Fool.
>Stop bustin' on poor Bonnie - she was out there toeing the line - an
>opportunity most of you fools will never have.
You do know that pro women are not as fast, or as strong as the cat5 men.
They are just out there due to Title9 and feminist lawyers. The ones that do
seem fast, it's a media conspiracy. Jeff subtracts 20 minutes off their times
across the board before Cyclingnews posts them. Lyne Bessette is actually 4'3"
and weighs 320 but they've got a special lens to make her look better in the
press.
Blah, blah, blah...
Keep racing
Bill C
Tom Kunich
>
> "karlwithak" <karlwithak@@posting.google.com...
> > Darrren Baker did SF??
>
> Yes he did. He didn't finish it though.
>
> Here he is in green (Webcor) :
>
> http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2003/peters0688.jpg
One thing about this year - Jittery Fucking Joes, Webcor and Healthnet
all looked really good and made a great part of the race.
Sleepy John and his boys were having a bad race this year and were
really unimpressive.
US Postal didn't look all that hot either. Generally they were so far
buried in the pack that I couldn't identify any of them.
Prime Alliance should have done all hell and gone better than they did
but everyone has a bad year sometimes.
But the real star was the race itself. The first year it was a pretty
good race but Hincapie made it look almost too easy. Last year they
didn't have enough climbing and it was a sprinters race. This year was
just perfect and Georgie Porgie was out of action making it a real
race.
What they need now is some really good sponsors so that they can get
the prize money up to the level of the rest of the race.
Tom Kunich
For some reason, women seem to retain their ability to race in the top
levels longer.
Tom Kunich
"MRiordan95" <mrior...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030917164335...@mb-m21.aol.com...
Dashi Toshii
"PedalChick" <pedal...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6624fba9.0309...@posting.google.com...
I can't imagine how Tom could be dissing anyone, 220 lbs, each ear must
weight 40 lbs.
Dashii
Nick Burns
I suppose that was a mean comment on my part. At least she gave it a go.
There are so few races actually on the Peninsula, although there are more
now than at any other time in the history of the sport.
Ken Papai
news:<d3N9b.5657$UN4....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> > In the women's race they were all REALLY slow up Fillmore. And the
> > gearing was surprisingly high with almost everyone with at least a 30
> > or 32 and many triples.
>
> Oh screw you, you freakin' cat 5 loser. Really slow? How come our
> lap times were faster than the men's then?
Not the pro men -- their lap times were 24.5 to 26 minutes each.
Your first lap was 28 minutes. (Fillmore to Fillmore I measured)
Your 2nd lap was 29 minutes.
Your 3rd lap was 28 minutes.
Definitely 17% slower. Plus the men climb Fillmore 8 times
and had to save a little in reserve.
Just facts.
Tom Kunich
I couldn't go that fast? Hell no, and next year the women will be a
hell of a lot more ready for Fillmore and will be a good deal faster.
I'd bet that you cannot keep up with Lance and yet you don't seem to
hesitate to criticize someone else's riding and you've never even
ridden with me.
My point was that most of the women looked like they'd never even SEEN
Fillmore this year. That wasn't too surprising I suppose since two
years ago the men looked the same way.
Don't take insult when none is intended. The facts were plain -
1) Bonny was too heavy for that race at the level of fitness she had.
If you ask her I'm sure she'd say the same thing.
2) Most of the women in that race were painfully slow up Fillmore.
Again, if you ask ANY of them they'd tell you the same thing.
3) Most of the women were carrying enormous mountain bike gears and
were still sweating up the climbs like they had never seen a hill
before. It wasn't because women can't climb because in my experience
the average woman is a better climber than the average man. What was
the probable cause was that no one actually trained for that sort of
race. A race composed of mostly power climbing and very fast downhills
interspersed with windy flats isn't something you train for by going
out and climbing Mt. Diablo. The men learned that two years ago and
the women just started.
Wait until next year.
Oh, by the way, whatever gave you the idea that the women were lapping
anywhere close to the speed of the men was entirely incorrect. The
women averaged 2 mph slower for their race over less than half the
distance.
Tom Kunich
Hey Nick, remember that lower catagory women aren't going to be
allowed in the race after it gets UCI points and a decent purse so it
attracts more women pros. Anyone that rode on Sunday will be able to
tell their children that they rode one of the biggest bicycle races in
the country. What else made all those male Cat 2's race 2 years ago?
Bruce Johnston
"TritonRider" <trito...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030917194310...@mb-m18.aol.com...
Gee Bill, I thought you might be a little nicer then that on the girls. Why
couldn't we stretch it in the other direction as well. A few of the top
girls have been known to keep up with Cat-4 for a while and even a few Cat-3
riders. Which Cat-4 or Cat-3 men, the slow ones? Yeah, but this doesn't seem
chararistic of you. There has even been rare instances of hanging with Cat-2
for brief time although I couldn't say right off hand. Who did Jeanson hang
with on Mt. Washington for a while? What level did Inga Thompson race with
the men years ago? How about when LZ beat Cipo? The girls do shine on
occassion.
From CN,
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/diary01/hemsley.shtml
Of course the most important victory of the day was Leontien's over Cipo;
she beat him by over two seconds for the same 25.5km course. It made
headlines in the Dutch newspapers.
gwhite
Dumbass,
I would love to ride that course in a race. Anyone who would pass
on that is a dumbass -- dumbass.
gwhite
Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> 3) Most of the women were carrying enormous mountain bike gears and
> were still sweating up the climbs like they had never seen a hill.
Check out Wherry:
http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2003/wherry0711.jpg
Sure looks like a triple to me.
Also look at the unidentified pic at the top-o-the-page:
http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2003/
http://www.kenpapai.com/racing/sf2003/triple0712.jpg
> It wasn't because women can't climb because in my experience
> the average woman is a better climber than the average man.
LOL
cipo_chick
asses" busting on Bonnie, but.....no person, man or women of Bonnie's
caliber should have lined up for that race in San Francisco. While
Bonnie is a decent flat crit rider (although checking results down in
Socal she had no real placings, in the races she did race), she is no
endurance hill rider. You didn't see Becky Quinn who won the Manhatten
Beach Grand Prix, nor Lisa Heffernan, nor Suzanne Sonye, all very good
Southern California crit riders (with a lot better results than
Bonnie) trying to race up in Norcal. They know their strengths and
this course just didn't fit them.
Again, I don't care how well she knows the folks at Team Fuji, the
facts are that:
- she hasn't raced any long hilly road races (AND PLACED)
- she hasn't raced any NRC races (AND PLACED)
- she simply hasn't done a whole lot of crits (at least by looking at
results for this year) (AND PLACED)
- she doesn't race against the big dogs at the track
So why did Bonnie choose to race it? Who knows...maybe to see her name
on the roster, maybe to line up with the "big girls", but there is
absolutely NO way she was there to help her team mates. I could have
predicted that she would get shelled in the first lap going up against
the talent that was there. Being a " masters fatty cat 3 chick"
myself, there was no way that I could/would have done this race and I
have beaten Bonnie more than a few times racing this past year.
To give her credit, she is trying hard to improve and has done just
that in the past year. I suspect that she will be even a better rider
next year, but still not the caliber to contest the SFGP.
pedal...@hotmail.com (PedalChick) wrote in message news:<6624fba9.0309...@posting.google.com>...
Ken Papai
"cipo_chick" <cipo_...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:b7ddf9b6.03091...@posting.google.com...
> Well, I somewhat agree, on the "freakin cat 5 losers masters fatties
> asses" busting on Bonnie, but.....no person, man or women of Bonnie's
> caliber should have lined up for that race in San Francisco. While
> Bonnie is a decent flat crit rider (although checking results down in
> Socal she had no real placings, in the races she did race), she is no
> endurance hill rider. You didn't see Becky Quinn who won the Manhatten
> Beach Grand Prix, nor Lisa Heffernan, nor Suzanne Sonye, all very good
> Southern California crit riders (with a lot better results than
> Bonnie) trying to race up in Norcal. They know their strengths and
> this course just didn't fit them.
>
> Again, I don't care how well she knows the folks at Team Fuji, the
> facts are that:
> - she hasn't raced any long hilly road races (AND PLACED)
> - she hasn't raced any NRC races (AND PLACED)
> - she simply hasn't done a whole lot of crits (at least by looking at
> results for this year) (AND PLACED)
> - she doesn't race against the big dogs at the track
>
> So why did Bonnie choose to race it? Who knows...maybe to see her name
> on the roster, maybe to line up with the "big girls", but there is
> absolutely NO way she was there to help her team mates. I could have
> predicted that she would get shelled in the first lap going up against
> the talent that was there. Being a " masters fatty cat 3 chick"
In that case I can think of 100 cat 3 slobs like me who would love to race
that course
but we wouldn't be ignorant enough to do it with real pros.
Kurgan Gringioni
"gwhite" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message news:3F6924E5...@ti.com...
> >
> > Dumbass -
> >
> > Some of us Masters Fatties would have the sense not to enter an event
like
> > that (if we were eligible).
>
>
> Dumbass,
>
> I would love to ride that course in a race. Anyone who would pass
> on that is a dumbass -- dumbass.
Dumbass -
Some may be a little less self-centered than yourself. This one for instance:
Benjamin Weiner
> "Andy Coggan" <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > I talked to her after the race, but didn't get her name. The pic was taken
> > after she pulled out of her pedal near the top of Fillmore - she said that
> > restarting on that grade didn't seem like a viable option, so there was no
> > choice but to walk.
> Carmen D'Alusio joked before the race that she and Gina Hall were
> considering wearing mtb shoes as they could probably run the hill
> faster than they could ride it.
Some people recommend that for Cat's Hill (which I have not done)
you should wear mtb shoes because if somebody stalls or drops
chain in front of you, you're gonna be better off running the hill
than trying to restart. A guy I know has done that in fact.
TritonRider
>Gee Bill, I thought you might be a little nicer then that on the girls.
>Why
>couldn't we stretch it in the other direction as well. A few of the top
>girls have been known to keep up with Cat-4 for a while and even a few Cat-3
>riders. Which Cat-4 or Cat-3 men, the slow ones? Yeah, but this doesn't seem
>chararistic of you.
I guess I forgot to hang out the sarcasm sign. On a good day any of the top
women are capable of hanging in a local or regional mens P/1/2 in my opinion.
The thing with the womens fields is that the spread in talent in any given
field seems to be much wider so some end up looking really bad.
Bill C
PedalChick
> Not the pro men -- their lap times were 24.5 to 26 minutes each.
>
> Your first lap was 28 minutes. (Fillmore to Fillmore I measured)
> Your 2nd lap was 29 minutes.
> Your 3rd lap was 28 minutes.
>
> Definitely 17% slower. Plus the men climb Fillmore 8 times
> and had to save a little in reserve.
>
> Just facts.
My bad. Someone told me we went faster than the men, but maybe that
was just the short laps where we averaged 32mph. Oh yeah, the
announcer said the times were faster than the men's times *last year*
- but maybe he was being patronizing.
So, Bonnie aside, as we have established that she had no business in
that race, where would that race have been without all the other 90
women who were in her shoes? What would you guys have been saying if
the race only attracted the 67 women who finished? Then you'd be
talking about it like that race in Atlanta with the $10,000 purse that
only had 65 women.
If we never went out to race the big races, and stayed cat3's we'd be
sandbaggers.
If we just raced local 1,2,3 races, we'd be chickens - too afraid to
challenge ourselves in the gig races.
It takes a bit of guts to go to a race when you know the absolute top
riders on the planet will be out there ripping your legs off.
On behalf of the pack fodder,
Pedalchick
Mark VandenBerghe
the three laps of the men's. The women went hard from the gun (yes, I know
they only did 50 miles). The men started out quite slow. My motorcycle was
behind the men and we never could pass through the bunch for the first two
laps. The men were going so slow that they were entirely bunched up and took
up the entire road. There was simply no way to get through. This caused
some problems for support vehicles to get to the break. How slow were they
going? I looked at the Speedo several times through the Marina, Palace of
Fine Arts and Presidio. They were doing around 18 mph, granted they were
going much faster through other sections and they did have another 90 or so
miles to go. Not to take anything way from Jason and Aldag, but that's how
they got such a big gap.
The women were flying through there and shedding racers after 5 miles. It
was way cool to watch.
Mark VandenBerghe
"PedalChick" <pedal...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6624fba9.0309...@posting.google.com...
K. J. Papai
> "sabine" <sabin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fb3bb9f3.03091...@posting.google.com...
> > Carmen D'Alusio joked before the race that she and Gina Hall were
> > considering wearing mtb shoes as they could probably run the hill
> > faster than they could ride it.
>
> I don't doubt that. When you have guys like Gordon tacking back and
> forth while in a 27 you know that is one hard hill.
Jeff Louder's smallest was a 39x26 and he nearly
ripped his legs off.
He has a cool race report on bike.com
-Ken
Kyle Legate
> "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:<d3N9b.5657$UN4....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>> In the women's race they were all REALLY slow up Fillmore. And the
>> gearing was surprisingly high with almost everyone with at least a 30
>> or 32 and many triples.
>
> Oh screw you, you freakin' cat 5 loser. Really slow? How come our
> lap times were faster than the men's then? I'd like to see you haul
> your masters fattie ass up that thing. Fool.
>
loser.
gwhite
Not a bad idea. There's no way to get started again on the hill if you drop the
chain, or the person in front of you does. I use a 46t inner ring for that race
just so I won't drop the chain and can pre-shift on the straight leading to the
hill. No way you could do a 46t for SFGP though.
gwhite
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "gwhite" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message news:3F6924E5...@ti.com...
> > >
> > > Dumbass -
> > >
> > > Some of us Masters Fatties would have the sense not to enter an event
> like
> > > that (if we were eligible).
> >
> >
> > Dumbass,
> >
> > I would love to ride that course in a race. Anyone who would pass
> > on that is a dumbass -- dumbass.
>
> Dumbass -
>
> Some may be a little less self-centered than yourself.
Dumbass,
If I pay my money and I'm elgible I race, I will if I want to. I would love to
race on that course.
Bike racing is all about ego and self-centeredness. If you don't have an ego,
you won't try to win.
Kurgan Gringioni
"gwhite" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message news:3F6A1005...@ti.com...
Sure, but I wouldn't want to be in the TdF either, if I had enough $$$ to
throw away on a Div 1 team and could insert myself in the lineup.
I wouldn't want to be in any sort of competition where I was not a legitimate
competitor. I'd be embarassing myself and getting in the way of the people
who had earned their way there. Some people (like you) obviously have a
different set of ethics. Fine. Life would be boring if we were all the same.
The world needs The Delusional to provide contrast.
BTW, the accordian effect is so bad coming off the Fillmore climb that any
non-legitimate racers lost contact in the first lap (because even if they
managed to catch back on, they then had to scale Taylor with no recovery
time).
gwhite
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "gwhite" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message news:3F6A1005...@ti.com...
> >
> >
> > Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > >
> > > "gwhite" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message
> news:3F6924E5...@ti.com...
> > > > >
> > > > > Dumbass -
> > > > >
> > > > > Some of us Masters Fatties would have the sense not to enter an event
> > > like
> > > > > that (if we were eligible).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dumbass,
> > > >
> > > > I would love to ride that course in a race. Anyone who would pass
> > > > on that is a dumbass -- dumbass.
> > >
> > > Dumbass -
> > >
> > > Some may be a little less self-centered than yourself.
> >
> > Dumbass,
> >
> > If I pay my money and I'm elgible I race, I will if I want to. I would
> love to
> > race on that course.
> >
> > Bike racing is all about ego and self-centeredness. If you don't have an
> ego,
> > you won't try to win.
>
> Sure, but I wouldn't want to be in the TdF either, if I had enough $$$ to
> throw away on a Div 1 team and could insert myself in the lineup.
Okay. I wasn't saying I wanted to ride in the pro field, just race on that
course. It is just a fantasy anyway -- I don't see them shutting down the city
for a few amateur divisions. What did you think I was saying when I said I
would "pay my money?"
> I wouldn't want to be in any sort of competition where I was not a legitimate
> competitor. I'd be embarassing myself and getting in the way of the people
> who had earned their way there.
I've done a lot of races where I didn't think I had good form. I raced partly
to get form, partly just cuz I liked the course, partly to give Bob Liebold $20,
and partly to see who was racing that year and how well they were going.
Sub-standard form didn't itself keep me from going; if I am really hurting,
"staying out of the way" sort of takes care of itself.
> BTW, the accordian effect is so bad coming off the Fillmore climb that any
> non-legitimate racers lost contact in the first lap (because even if they
> managed to catch back on, they then had to scale Taylor with no recovery
> time).
I know.
Kurgan Gringioni
"gwhite" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message news:3F6A27E0...@ti.com...
>
> Okay. I wasn't saying I wanted to ride in the pro field, just race on that
> course.
Dumbass -
Well, it didn't sound that way. Never mind then.
> > I wouldn't want to be in any sort of competition where I was not a
legitimate
> > competitor. I'd be embarassing myself and getting in the way of the
people
> > who had earned their way there.
>
> I've done a lot of races where I didn't think I had good form. I raced
partly
> to get form, partly just cuz I liked the course, partly to give Bob Liebold
$20,
> and partly to see who was racing that year and how well they were going.
> Sub-standard form didn't itself keep me from going; if I am really hurting,
> "staying out of the way" sort of takes care of itself.
That's different. You belong in those races and yes, supporting Velo Promo is
a good thing to do.
Tom Kunich
And Wherry finished exactly where? I notice that the best men and
women both were riding Campi double 10's with a 29.
Tom Kunich
>
> In that case I can think of 100 cat 3 slobs like me who would love
to race
> that course but we wouldn't be ignorant enough to do it with real
pros.
That isn't a very good view Ken. Think about it. There were less than
a dozen women there who SHOULD have been racing. If the pack filler
hadn't been there it would have been an embarassment for them all.
Better a big field that can't keep up with the real pros than a couple
of chicks who go blazing fast but without anything to compare them
with they appear even slower.
Tom Kunich
aren't going to kiss your butt and say really nice things to you all
the time. Women Pro's can (barely) stay in a Cat 2 pack and that is
why the USCF allows them to "train" by racing in the Cat 3 fields.
Women have an advantage because they are generally small and small
generally means better climbing since the strength to weight ratios
are more advantageous. They also generally have better endurance.
However, men have a much larger muscle mass and a higher ratio of
muscle to body weight and that simply gives them an unbeatable
advantage all things considered.
Calling it like it is isn't the same thing as insulting someone. Many
women just can't seem to get a hold on that idea.
BTW, my bet is that next year the women's field will be a whole lot
closer BECAUSE they were so badly prepared for power climbing this
year.
"PedalChick" <pedal...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6624fba9.0309...@posting.google.com...
TritonRider
If you're going to compete in a man's sport you better learn that men
aren't going to kiss your butt and say really nice things to you all
the time.
Tom, the level of crap in this post is amazing.
1. Since when is cycling in today's world a "MAN'S" sport?
2."Women Pro's can (barely) stay in a Cat 2 pack"
I think that a lot of male 1/2s would dispute this. Quite a few here from
experience.
3. "Women have an advantage because they are generally small and small
generally means better climbing since the strength to weight ratios
are more advantageous. They also generally have better endurance."
I'll leave the endurance bit to Andy but I have my doubts on this.
4. "However, men have a much larger muscle mass and a higher ratio of
>muscle to body weight and that simply gives them an unbeatable
>advantage all things considered."
How do women have a better strength to wieght ratio, with a lower muscle mass
to weight ratio?
5. Calling it like it is isn't the same thing as insulting someone. Many
women just can't seem to get a hold on that idea.
This isn't calling it like it is, it's calling it as YOU see it.
Bill C
Howard Kveck
"Kyle Legate" <leg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Kyle, you're just saying that because you have him killfiled, right?
--
tanx,
Howard
"Head of a cat, body of a monkey, Here comes a plague upon the land."
The Billy Nayer Show
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Howard Kveck
sabin...@hotmail.com (sabine) wrote:
> "Ken Papai" <k...@kenpapai.com> wrote in message
> news:<NVI9b.473981$YN5.323080@sccrnsc01>...
> > Who was the oldest guy out there Sunday?
> >
> > Darren Baker? Rolf Aldag? ;-)
> > Anyone over 40 years old? What about the Webcor roster?
> >
> > Anyone younger than Sterling Magnell (Sierra Nevada BREWING COMPANY)?
> >
> > -Ken
>
> Not a guy, but Karen Brems is 41 I believe. She finished in the front group.
>
> Sabine
I noticed that Linda Jackson was listed as finishing in 31st. I thought she'd
retired.
Donald Munro
>> That said a lot of the really hard part is because of the speed. I was
>> riding up it one time in a 42/24 and kneed the shift lever which
>> dropped my Super Record down into the 19. And there was a lot of
>> traffic on the street so there wasn't any of this bobbing and weaving.
>> The top part was REALLY a bitch in the 42/19 let me tell you.
K. J. Papai wrote:
> Jeff Louder's smallest was a 39x26 and he nearly ripped his legs off.
I wonder if the FSA compact 50-34 chainring combination that Tyler
Hamilton used recently, would be a good idea at SF. Rbt were having a
fairly interesting discussion (by rbt standards) of the 50-34 versus a
traditional 53-39, and a 50x11 (120.1) is fairly close to a
53x12 (116.7) while a 34x23 (39.1) is not to far from a 39x25 (41.20).
Perhaps a 50-34 with 12-25 cogs would give a reasonable range for
a route with lots of short steep hills. (34x25 = 35.9 versus 39x27 =
38.2).
(All gear inches courtesy of
http://analyticcycling.com/GearChart_Page.html)
K. J. Papai
> K. J. Papai wrote:
> > Jeff Louder's smallest was a 39x26 and he nearly ripped his legs off.
>
> I wonder if the FSA compact 50-34 chainring combination that Tyler
> Hamilton used recently, would be a good idea at SF. Rbt were having a
> fairly interesting discussion (by rbt standards) of the 50-34 versus a
> traditional 53-39, and a 50x11 (120.1) is fairly close to a
> 53x12 (116.7) while a 34x23 (39.1) is not to far from a 39x25 (41.20).
53 to 55t front chain ring with an 11t in back
is what you need in SF. 53x12 is too small for those descents,
*practically* speaking.
I think a triple setup -- like Gord Fraswer and Chris Wherry
and I am sure others had is perfect. You preserve all
your 9 or 10 cogs from 11-21 or 11-23 that way.
Tom Kunich
local Cat 3 race. And that was after her Rainbow Jersey. Women are
smaller but weight goes down faster than muscle strength and small
people have the advantage. Granted that smaller men have the advantage
over smaller women, but men are on the average larger than women.
Women do have better endurance and that has been shown by many
studies. It is thought by some to be because they have a large
fat/muscle ratio but my guess is that it has to do with their ability
to access whatever fat they do have. It is well known that women's
matabolism can switch into a high efficiency mode when they are
pregnant so that they don't need any more energy input (food) than
when they aren't pregnant.
Pedalchick responded negatively without reading the message. She
misunderstood me to be insulting instead of just calling it the way I
saw it. You had to be standing on Fillmore and seeing the vaste
majority of the women's pack huffing slowly up that hill to understand
what I meant when I said that they were SLOW and you had to finish the
paragraph to see that I said that the men were in the same state on
their first introduction to the hill
Don't defend people in a knee jerk reaction. I supported women's
racing for 6 years remember? You aren't likely to find anyone more
pro-women't racing than me. But they looked like the amatuers they are
on the 12th.
"TritonRider" <trito...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030918202448...@mb-m12.aol.com...
Robert Chung
> Sorry Bill but you're wrong. Karren Kurreck could barely stay in a
> local Cat 3 race. And that was after her Rainbow Jersey.
http://www.cyclingpeaks.com/powerprofiling.htm
and in a prior message, Tom also wrote:
> Women Pro's can (barely) stay in a Cat 2 pack and that is
> why the USCF allows them to "train" by racing in the Cat 3 fields.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/aug01/aug12resultsUSA.shtml
> It is well known that women's
> matabolism can switch into a high efficiency mode when they are
> pregnant so that they don't need any more energy input (food) than
> when they aren't pregnant.
http://ohioline.osu.edu/mob-fact/0001.html
PedalChick
> racing for 6 years remember? You aren't likely to find anyone more
> pro-women't racing than me. But they looked like the amatuers they are
> on the 12th.
Ah HA! Now I see what the problem is... you were out there on the
*12th* - there must have been some other event going on, because we
were out there racing on the *14th*!
Just a simple misunderstanding... I forgive you.
Danny Callen
> If you're going to compete in a man's sport you better learn that men
> aren't going to kiss your butt and say really nice things to you all
> the time. Women Pro's can (barely) stay in a Cat 2 pack and that is
> why the USCF allows them to "train" by racing in the Cat 3 fields.
>
> Women have an advantage because they are generally small and small
> generally means better climbing since the strength to weight ratios
> are more advantageous. They also generally have better endurance.
>
> However, men have a much larger muscle mass and a higher ratio of
> muscle to body weight and that simply gives them an unbeatable
> advantage all things considered.
>
> Calling it like it is isn't the same thing as insulting someone. Many
> women just can't seem to get a hold on that idea.
>
> BTW, my bet is that next year the women's field will be a whole lot
> closer BECAUSE they were so badly prepared for power climbing this
> year.
>
Tom,
Your post is so full of shit that it is the funniest thing, I've read on
this group in a while. I really wonder where you get your information or
"fantasies" from.
Danny Callen
Tom Kunich
John Verhuel?
"Robert Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3f6be4ad$0$27024$626a...@news.free.fr...
Kyle Legate
> In article <d49af8ba1b7f9c99...@news.teranews.com>,
> "Kyle Legate" <leg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>> POTM, with a clarification. Tom's a Cat 5 bike racer, but a Division
>> I pro loser.
>>
> Kyle, you're just saying that because you have him killfiled, right?
>
killfile.
Robert Chung
> So, Robert, you man [sic] that one of the top women pros managed to beat
> John Verhuel?
>
> "Robert Chung" wrote ...
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> Sorry Bill but you're wrong. Karren Kurreck could barely stay in a
>>> local Cat 3 race. And that was after her Rainbow Jersey.
>>
>> http://www.cyclingpeaks.com/powerprofiling.htm
>>
>> and in a prior message, Tom also wrote:
>>
>>> Women Pro's can (barely) stay in a Cat 2 pack and that is
>>> why the USCF allows them to "train" by racing in the Cat 3 fields.
>>
>> http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/aug01/aug12resultsUSA.shtml
>>
>>> It is well known that women's
>>> matabolism can switch into a high efficiency mode when they are
>>> pregnant so that they don't need any more energy input (food) than
>>> when they aren't pregnant.
>>
>> http://ohioline.osu.edu/mob-fact/0001.html
Well, I was pointing out that Andy Coggan's data shows that "World Class"
women have a power profile closer to D3 pro men than to Cat 3 men. Laura
Van Gilder beating the entire men's field in that P12 race is just an
example. That Verheul was second is less interesting to me than that the
guy in 6th apparently races for for a team named after one of my
relatives.
You think Verheul should feel bad because he was beat by van Gilder? Then
you must think the guy who came in third must feel worse: he got beat by
the guy who got beat by van Gilder.
I was also pointing out that pregnant women do need more calories.
Nick Burns
"Robert Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> I was also pointing out that pregnant women do need more calories.
I, but you miss the point Robert. TK is the ultimate joke miester, spewing
as much idiocy with a straight face as he can away with to see who takes him
seriously. That little blurb about the caloric needs of pregnant women was
just a reminder to the hip people that "get" Tom that all of his articles
are farce.
Kurgan Gringioni
"Danny Callen" <dan...@ix.nospamnetcom.com> wrote in message
news:j6Zab.42547$NM1....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>
> Tom,
>
> Your post is so full of shit that it is the funniest thing, I've read on
> this group in a while. I really wonder where you get your information or
> "fantasies" from.
There's a part of the brain that takes our memories and distortes them.
Everyone has it to some degree. Psychologists speculate it's some sort of
coping mechanism, but no one really knows for sure why it's there.
As you might imagine, some people may send a large amount of data through
that portion of the brain.
Amit
>
> Well, I was pointing out that Andy Coggan's data shows that "World Class"
> women have a power profile closer to D3 pro men than to Cat 3 men.
I know that Dede Demet produces about 5W/kg at threshold, which is
comparable to Div III men. Realistically though she will have trouble
racing someone who also makes 5W/kg and is 15% heavier, and she's
about 60 kg, bigger than the typical female racer.
-Amit
Tom Kunich
The point is that it was newsworthy because it is so unusual. John is
normally front of the pack but we wold normally think of him as pack
filler wouldn't we?
> I was also pointing out that pregnant women do need more calories.
That isn't strictly true. Studies of women in areas in which there are
famines or semi-famines have shown that women can retain the same
caloric intakes while pregnant without losing weight.
Apparently that is also the mechanism that kicks in when women try to
diet. Their bodies become far more efficient and then when they resume
a normal caloric diet they put on weight rapidly for awhile until
their metabolism kicks back into low.
I'd supply a reference or two but the Science Magazines are too tall
to mess with without fear of avalanche.
Tom Kunich
news:3f6c9443$0$35481$a32e...@news.nntpservers.com...
http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/womens/pg07.htm#healthy
"2500 calories is the recommended daily caloric intake for active
women. It
is also the recommended intake for women in their 2nd and 3rd
trimesters of
pregnancy (the last 6 months). If you are unsure what your caloric
intake
should be, relative to your activity level, be sure to speak to your
health care
provider about what's right for you."
In case you weren't aware - many doctors advise pregnant women to
over-eat and suggest that they gain between 20 and 30 lbs during a
pregnancy. This isn't because they need the calories but because it
lends an added margin of safety for supplying needed vitamins and
minerals to the diet.
You seem rather fast to make comments about things that you've never
bothered to look into.
Tom Kunich
news:df5bdaa0.03092...@posting.google.com...
Somehow, I think, using the very top women racers and comparing them
to Div III men pros should embarass you guys who are criticizing my
comments that Women Pros compete with Cat 3 men. Considering that it
isn't highly unusual for a woman pro to ride in Amateur races in the
USA you would expect for a lot more people to have seen their
comparative abilities. But then I suppose you just don't pay any
attention to them. I do.
Kurgan Gringioni
> >
> > Well, I was pointing out that Andy Coggan's data shows that "World Class"
> > women have a power profile closer to D3 pro men than to Cat 3 men.
>
> I know that Dede Demet produces about 5W/kg at threshold, which is
> comparable to Div III men.
I wonder what G. Jeanson's watts/kg is. Pretty high I'd imagine.
TritonRider
> wonder what G. Jeanson's watts/kg is. Pretty high I'd imagine.
>
>
Having just watched her at GMSR, it's amazing how much power she puts out for
her size. Anna Milkowski wrecked a pretty good field at the Northampton Crit,
she was really on form and rode away from everyone else. At GMSR it was Rona at
the front and Anna stayed with Jeanson, and was a factor in the race, but
Jeanson was still the winner.
I think she'll do well at worlds, top 8. Lyne Bessette top 5.
Cooke wins it.
Bill C
Dan Connelly
Don't compare her to Marty Nothstein. She doesn't sprint
like Marty Nothstein. If you compare her to someone with
comparable sprinting ability, the div 3 rider will ride
at least 5.5 W/kg.
Robert Chung
> As Tom points out, 5W/kg is cat 3, not div 3.
Tom was saying "women have an advantage because they are generaly small
and small generally means better climbing since the strength to weight
ratios are more advantageous." I don't know about women's
strength-to-weight, but I was pointing to Andy's database that shows
women's power-to-weight didn't appear to be better than men's. And, are
you saying that the average cat 3 man has a threshold W/kg of 5?
BTW, I seem to recall you saying a year or two ago that you climbed OLH at
5W/kg. Were you at or above threshold?
Dan Connelly
threshold, which of course it isn't.
I'd estimate strong climbers in each category up OLH are:
Sr5 : 18:30
Sr4 : 17:30
Sr3 : 16:30
Sr2 : 15:30 <-- typical div-3
Sr1 : 14:30 <-- good div-3
pro : 13:30 <-- good div 1-2
W4 : 22:00
W3 : 20:00
W2 : 18:30
W1 : 17:00
pro : 16:00
OLH gains 393 meters @ 7.3%.
Dan
Kurgan Gringioni
"Dan Connelly" <djco...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:34Ebb.5444$8X3....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
> As Tom points out, 5W/kg is cat 3, not div 3.
Scott Price wouldn't agree with you. I don't agree either. If only a few
people in the world make 7w/kg, it doesn't hold that Cat 3s can do 5w/kg.
From: Scott Price (sdp...@concentric.net)
Subject: Re: aerodynamics - power to weight
This is the only article in this thread
View: Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.racing
Date: 2000/06/27
Andre - I will tell you that anything over 5 watts per kilo (30 minute
duration)
and you will be competitive in any US pro 1,2 category climbing race. To
measure
ones climbing ability is absolutely tied into watts / kilo, to measure ones
flat
TT ability is power / aerodynamics and is much more difficult without
consistent
drag values. Scott.
Ewoud Dronkert
> I'd estimate strong climbers in each category up OLH are:
I'm sure the profile is on the web somewhere, but your data will do;
in your estimation, a pro (good div 1-2) would average 13.7 km/h over
the climb of almost 3100 m at 7.3%? That seems kind of low. I think
they should be able to do 18 km/h.
Dan Connelly
393 meters / 7.3% = 5.38 km => 24kph @ 13:30.
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~lucasp/grade/oldlahonda.html
Ewoud Dronkert
> 393 meters / 7.3% = 5.38 km
Sorry I don't know what came over me.
Dan Connelly
BTW, 24kph @ 7.3% corresponds to a VAM of 1750 m/sec.
For some TdF VAM values, see:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/riders/2003/diaries/ferrari/tour.php?id=ferrari031#14
And this aren't even under the usual well-rested state in which climb PRs
are typically established.
Dan
Amit
>
> Somehow, I think, using the very top women racers and comparing them
> to Div III men pros should embarass you guys who are criticizing my
> comments that Women Pros compete with Cat 3 men. Considering that it
> isn't highly unusual for a woman pro to ride in Amateur races in the
> USA you would expect for a lot more people to have seen their
> comparative abilities. But then I suppose you just don't pay any
> attention to them. I do.
Bessette does local races with the men. I've seen her beat many Cat 1
riders in a hilly road race, but she was dropped in the fast flat
Montreal Quebec race, even though many Cat 3 and masters riders were
able the finish with the main pack.
A woman at 5 W/kg will typically sustain about 250-300W, a typically
sized male racer with that ability might sustain 350-380 W. That
difference in absolute power makes a big difference in most racing
conditions.
In a group of riders of "similar ability" smaller riders will have to
have a bit more power for their weight.
-Amit
kaiser
A chick walking her bike up a hill in a race as prestigious as this
one is a total fucking embarssment. I can not possibly believe this
chick honestly thought she could haul that ass up hills like those.
gwhite <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message news:<3F6A1005...@ti.com>...
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> >
> > "gwhite" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message news:3F6924E5...@ti.com...
> > > >
> > > > Dumbass -
> > > >
> > > > Some of us Masters Fatties would have the sense not to enter an event
> like
> > > > that (if we were eligible).
> > >
> > >
> > > Dumbass,
> > >
> > > I would love to ride that course in a race. Anyone who would pass
> > > on that is a dumbass -- dumbass.
> >
> > Dumbass -
> >
> > Some may be a little less self-centered than yourself.
>
> Dumbass,
>
> If I pay my money and I'm elgible I race, I will if I want to. I would love to
> race on that course.
>
> Bike racing is all about ego and self-centeredness. If you don't have an ego,
> you won't try to win.
kaiser
get to the front of the pack on the flat section (probably waited at
the starting line for 20 minutes), give the hill a good go and then
blow up like a fucking bomb. Then they start to zig-zag, preventing
truly fit people from having any chance of getting around them, and by
the time they do manage to get around, the lead group is away and gone
for good.
This is why people as unfit as her should do some self-editing and
kindly not enter such events. There is no glory in having your family
tune in to watch you make a fool of yourself.
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<15pab.1046$iT4.6...@news1.news.adelphia.net>...
> "gwhite" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message news:
snip snip snip
> Sure, but I wouldn't want to be in the TdF either, if I had enough $$$ to
> throw away on a Div 1 team and could insert myself in the lineup.
>
> I wouldn't want to be in any sort of competition where I was not a legitimate
> competitor. I'd be embarassing myself and getting in the way of the people
> who had earned their way there. Some people (like you) obviously have a
> different set of ethics. Fine. Life would be boring if we were all the same.
> The world needs The Delusional to provide contrast.
>
> BTW, the accordian effect is so bad coming off the Fillmore climb that any
> non-legitimate racers lost contact in the first lap (because even if they
> managed to catch back on, they then had to scale Taylor with no recovery
> time).
kaiser
pedal...@hotmail.com (PedalChick) wrote in message news:<6624fba9.0309...@posting.google.com>...
> "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<d3N9b.5657$UN4....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> > In the women's race they were all REALLY slow up Fillmore. And the
> > gearing was surprisingly high with almost everyone with at least a 30
> > or 32 and many triples.
>
> Oh screw you, you freakin' cat 5 loser. Really slow? How come our
> lap times were faster than the men's then? I'd like to see you haul
> your masters fattie ass up that thing. Fool.
>
> Stop bustin' on poor Bonnie - she was out there toeing the line - an
> opportunity most of you fools will never have. You can't possibly
> understand how hard that race was. Lots of women who are really big
> fish in their local ponds got dropped on the first short laps.
kaiser
in San Diego while she was training for the 84 olympics. She had a
shitty ride at the games due to overtraining, as I remember.
And who was that chick that beat Verheul and Wilson Vasquez in a FIELD
SPRINT? Tour of Denville in NJ? it happens.
"Bruce Johnston" <rip...@sierratel.com> wrote in message news:<3f69...@news.sti.net>...
> "TritonRider" <trito...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20030917194310...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> > >From: pedal...@hotmail.com (PedalChick)
>
> > >Oh screw you, you freakin' cat 5 loser. Really slow? How come our
> > >lap times were faster than the men's then? I'd like to see you haul
> > >your masters fattie ass up that thing. Fool.
>
> > >Stop bustin' on poor Bonnie - she was out there toeing the line - an
> > >opportunity most of you fools will never have.
> >
> > You do know that pro women are not as fast, or as strong as the cat5
> men.
> > They are just out there due to Title9 and feminist lawyers. The ones that
> do
> > seem fast, it's a media conspiracy. Jeff subtracts 20 minutes off their
> times
> > across the board before Cyclingnews posts them. Lyne Bessette is actually
> 4'3"
> > and weighs 320 but they've got a special lens to make her look better in
> the
> > press.
> > Blah, blah, blah...
> > Keep racing
> > Bill C
>
> Gee Bill, I thought you might be a little nicer then that on the girls. Why
> couldn't we stretch it in the other direction as well. A few of the top
> girls have been known to keep up with Cat-4 for a while and even a few Cat-3
> riders. Which Cat-4 or Cat-3 men, the slow ones? Yeah, but this doesn't seem
> chararistic of you. There has even been rare instances of hanging with Cat-2
> for brief time although I couldn't say right off hand. Who did Jeanson hang
> with on Mt. Washington for a while? What level did Inga Thompson race with
> the men years ago? How about when LZ beat Cipo? The girls do shine on
> occassion.
>
> From CN,
>
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/diary01/hemsley.shtml
>
> Of course the most important victory of the day was Leontien's over Cipo;
> she beat him by over two seconds for the same 25.5km course. It made
> headlines in the Dutch newspapers.
Dan Connelly
kaiser wrote:
> I remember Marianne Berglund riding regularly in the local 1-2 events
> in San Diego while she was training for the 84 olympics. She had a
> shitty ride at the games due to overtraining, as I remember.
>
> And who was that chick that beat Verheul and Wilson Vasquez in a FIELD
> SPRINT? Tour of Denville in NJ? it happens.
>
Rather spineless photo editing:
http://www.teamidealtile.com/JV3.htm
Where's Laura?
Dan
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/2001/aug01/aug12resultsUSA.shtml
patrick
the local weekly newspaper (the burlington times?) and
i, believe, to be copyrighted... bad jv for failing to
give credit for that pic, _if_ it is indeed the one
from the newspaper that is on the ideal page?
(nice guy that john, but i agree with dan... poor
editing :)
anyway, only a few weeks earlier... here was laura in
all her speedy glory - winning the final crit at
fitchburg - jonathon's caption was 'lvg dons the stars
and stripes for a reason'
http://www.jsmcelvery.com/photos/2001/road/fitchburg/fl01vangilder1.jpg
>
> Rather spineless photo editing:
>
> http://www.teamidealtile.com/JV3.htm
>
> Where's Laura?
>
> Dan
i'll keep searching my archives... it is out there
somewhere!