This is what I call cross training
Greg Hall
Wonder if he'll ever try his hand at 6-day racing?
Greg Hall
Tom Kunich
news:b253e4e6.02122...@posting.google.com...
> http://www.txbra.org/featuredPhoto/featuredPhoto.asp
>
> Wonder if he'll ever try his hand at 6-day racing?
It looks like one of those wide open 3 meter wide course where technique
doesn't mean a whole lot and outright power allowed Lance to win probably
his first ever cyclocross race. All it needs is bleachers and pom pom girls.
Right, cyclocross for the masses. Get your program here.
Sharon Peters
>From: "Tom Kunich" tku...@earthlink.net
>It looks like one of those wide open 3 meter wide course where technique
>doesn't mean a whole lot and outright power allowed Lance to win probably
>his first ever cyclocross race. All it needs is bleachers and pom pom girls.
>Right, cyclocross for the masses. Get your program here.
>
Tom-
Did I mention you are a retard?
http://www.monkeyhillcs.com/humour/ronde_champ/
Thanks,
Sharon
Sharon Peters
>From: vc_...@hotmail.com (Greg Hall)
>http://www.txbra.org/featuredPhoto/featuredPhoto.asp
>
>Wonder if he'll ever try his hand at 6-day racing?
I'd venture to say that he'd do better than Marty....
But while it is nice to see him racing cross on a cross bike, what the fuck is
up with that number placement? That's the most retarded thing I've seen all
day. Except for that picture of Eunich that keeps popping up everywhere.....
-----Sharon Peters
Personal Trainer to the Stars--------
Remove "No Junk" to reply please!!!
Benjamin Weiner
> >http://www.txbra.org/featuredPhoto/featuredPhoto.asp
> >Wonder if he'll ever try his hand at 6-day racing?
> I'd venture to say that he'd do better than Marty....
> But while it is nice to see him racing cross on a cross bike, what the fuck is
> up with that number placement? That's the most retarded thing I've seen all
> day. Except for that picture of Eunich that keeps popping up everywhere.....
That's easy. The number plates are because LANCE is practicing to
take over the BMX world next. He figures it will be good training
to improve his sprint, too.
risto....@secure.from.spam.helsinki.fi
: "Greg Hall" <vc_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
: news:b253e4e6.02122...@posting.google.com...
:> http://www.txbra.org/featuredPhoto/featuredPhoto.asp
:>
:> Wonder if he'll ever try his hand at 6-day racing?
: It looks like one of those wide open 3 meter wide course where technique
: doesn't mean a whole lot and outright power allowed Lance to win probably
Uuh, right. Thought cyclocross means mud, snow, stones and hills?
If it would be here, probably trees too.
--
Risto Varanka | http://www.helsinki.fi/~rvaranka/
varis at no spam please iki fi
Ronald
> doesn't mean a whole lot and outright power allowed Lance to win probably
> his first ever cyclocross race. All it needs is bleachers and pom pom
girls.
> Right, cyclocross for the masses. Get your program here
Yeah, looks like cx for sissies to me. For comparison look at yesterdays
race in Kalmthout (Belgium) for the real stuff:
http://www.cyclocrossonline.be/html/foto/15-kalmthout/HTML/index.htm Great
race by Richard Groenendaal.
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Q0xN9.1966$ka5.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Wade Summers
Tom Kunich wrote in message ...
Or could it be he won because he is a world class rider and I've never heard
of the other guys...
Maybe his first cross race, but I'm sure he didn't go in unprepared.
>
>
>
Wade Summers
Ronald wrote in message <3e07003d$0$803$4d4e...@news.nl.uu.net>...
>> It looks like one of those wide open 3 meter wide course where technique
>> doesn't mean a whole lot and outright power allowed Lance to win probably
>> his first ever cyclocross race. All it needs is bleachers and pom pom
>girls.
>> Right, cyclocross for the masses. Get your program here
>
>Yeah, looks like cx for sissies to me. For comparison look at yesterdays
>race in Kalmthout (Belgium) for the real stuff:
>http://www.cyclocrossonline.be/html/foto/15-kalmthout/HTML/index.htm Great
>race by Richard Groenendaal.
>
I can show you links of world class races that look just like that Texas
shot. Hard to tell what the course was truly like from one picture (what
probably is the start stretch). Promoters can't do much about the weather.
That World Cup race in Belgium would automatically fall into Kunich's
category of "cross for the masses" - more like a BMX course than a cross
course (I still don't get that comparison). Remember that silly UCI rule
of being 3 meters wide. Funny, I wonder if the riders who finished 10
minutes down, but still on the first lap didn't think the wide course was
very technical?
Wade
armstrong
"Sharon Peters" <cyclo...@aol.comNoJunk> wrote in message
news:20021223012031...@mb-ms.aol.com...
> >Subject: This is what I call cross training
> >From: vc_...@hotmail.com (Greg Hall)
>
> >http://www.txbra.org/featuredPhoto/featuredPhoto.asp
> >
> >Wonder if he'll ever try his hand at 6-day racing?
>
> I'd venture to say that he'd do better than Marty....
> But while it is nice to see him racing cross on a cross bike, what the
fuck is
> up with that number placement? That's the most retarded thing I've seen
all
> day. Except for that picture of Eunich that keeps popping up
everywhere.....
>
day have you.
Tom A.
Sharon Peters
>From: "armstrong"
>Better than Marty!!?? are you out of your mind. You have never seen a Six
>day have you.
>
>Tom A.
>
Nope, and I still kick myself for not going to Copenhagen when I had the
chance. While I'm usually full of crap, I don't think it's unreasonable to
think that LANCE would do better than Martha after some transition time. He is
after all a more endurance based rider, who has some background in sprinting
(pre cancer). And he does put out a shitload of watts.....
Ken Papai
"Greg Hall" <vc_...@hotmail.com> wrote ...
> http://www.txbra.org/featuredPhoto/featuredPhoto.asp
>
> Wonder if he'll ever try his hand at 6-day racing?
>
> Greg Hall
And some say LANCE only races the TOUR!
Tom Kunich
> "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:Q0xN9.1966$ka5.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > It looks like one of those wide open 3 meter wide course where technique
> > doesn't mean a whole lot and outright power allowed Lance to win probably
> > his first ever cyclocross race. All it needs is bleachers and pom pom
> girls.
> > Right, cyclocross for the masses. Get your program here
>
> Yeah, looks like cx for sissies to me. For comparison look at yesterdays
> race in Kalmthout (Belgium) for the real stuff:
> http://www.cyclocrossonline.be/html/foto/15-kalmthout/HTML/index.htm Great
> race by Richard Groenendaal.
What I'm finding objectionable about Albright and his gang of two is
that I don't want to see cyclocross, the last refuge of unprofessional
FUN racing, reduced to a formulaic play-station-esque bit of
professional money making show gamesmanship.
Already they've decided that they have to design cyclocross courses in
such a manner that it decidedly disadvantages MTB riders. Now they're
working on dredging the last vestiges of original thinking out of the
courses with their stupid endless complaints about how the courses
could be "improved".
Tom Kunich
> That World Cup race in Belgium would automatically fall into Kunich's
> category of "cross for the masses" - more like a BMX course than a cross
> course (I still don't get that comparison). Remember that silly UCI rule
> of being 3 meters wide. Funny, I wonder if the riders who finished 10
> minutes down, but still on the first lap didn't think the wide course was
> very technical?
In Europe where you have 25 riders all capable of finishing at or near
the front you have to have a wide course. Here where there are three
riders you don't have that problem.
Whenever you have a national or international event you are pretty
much stuck with designing a course in which the difficulties are
caused by such things as a steep long run-up instead of clever course
design. In the USA, even at national level events, there simply aren't
enough serious contenders to follow UCI course design and you can AND
SHOULD make better courses where the determining factor for the winner
is more dependant on skill and less on sheer strength.
It should say an awful lot that the cyclocross specialists were beaten
by Lance.
G.T.
> "Ronald" <ronaldvt_re...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3e07003d$0$803$4d4e...@news.nl.uu.net>...
>
>>"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:Q0xN9.1966$ka5.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>It looks like one of those wide open 3 meter wide course where technique
>>>doesn't mean a whole lot and outright power allowed Lance to win probably
>>>his first ever cyclocross race. All it needs is bleachers and pom pom
>>
>> girls.
>>
>>>Right, cyclocross for the masses. Get your program here
>>
>>Yeah, looks like cx for sissies to me. For comparison look at yesterdays
>>race in Kalmthout (Belgium) for the real stuff:
>>http://www.cyclocrossonline.be/html/foto/15-kalmthout/HTML/index.htm Great
>>race by Richard Groenendaal.
>
>
> What I'm finding objectionable about Albright and his gang of two is
> that I don't want to see cyclocross, the last refuge of unprofessional
> FUN racing, reduced to a formulaic play-station-esque bit of
> professional money making show gamesmanship.
>
> Already they've decided that they have to design cyclocross courses in
> such a manner that it decidedly disadvantages MTB riders.
What's the problem with that? It's cyclocross. If MTB riders don't want
to be disadvantaged they should race NORBA or buy a 'cross bike. The point
is to have fun, or in reality to suffer, on a bike similar to one's road
bike. If you promote an event that caters to mountain bikes then there's
going to be zero differentiation from NORBA short course cross-country
races. IOW, lame ass races catering to professionals and their sponors
without an ounce of FUN left for the rest of us fat asses.
Greg
--
"Destroy your safe and happy lives before it is too late,
the battles we fought were long and hard,
just not to be consumed by rock n' roll..." - The Mekons
G.T.
I wouldn't say that those in the picture were "cyclocross specialists".
They were a mix of local road and mtn bike pros and semi-pros.
Canuck
"Tom Kunich" <cycl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:484e7721.02122...@posting.google.com...
> Already they've decided that they have to design cyclocross courses in
> such a manner that it decidedly disadvantages MTB riders.
In 'cross races, MTB technique should be disadvantaged, 'cross technique
advantaged.
duh!
TritonRider
>They were a mix of local road and mtn bike pros and semi-pros.
>
>Greg
>
I'd doubt that very many specialists were there. The discussion around here
seem to be if it's worth getting the cross bikes back out for a few more rides
after Nat's or just hit the road. I think Lance would do OK, on most courses
with his nature and strength. Lyne Bessette is doing really well based on a
little good coaching, a lot of strength, and a love of racing.
Bill C
Wade Summers
Tom Kunich wrote in message
>"Wade Summers" <wades...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:<atDN9.44627$pe.17...@news2.east.cox.net>...
>> That World Cup race in Belgium would automatically fall into Kunich's
>> category of "cross for the masses" - more like a BMX course than a cross
>> course (I still don't get that comparison). Remember that silly UCI
rule
>> of being 3 meters wide. Funny, I wonder if the riders who finished 10
>> minutes down, but still on the first lap didn't think the wide course was
>> very technical?
>
>In Europe where you have 25 riders all capable of finishing at or near
>the front you have to have a wide course. Here where there are three
>riders you don't have that problem.
>
There are not 25 guys in Euro races that can finish "at or near the front".
Take a look at some results. The same 6-10 names keep popping up. You
can't go into the process of designing a course with only 3 riders in mind.
You have to look at what the race will be like in the first two laps. And
most A fields at the big races in the US have at least 40 riders and the B
and master's fields have 60-80.
>Whenever you have a national or international event you are pretty
>much stuck with designing a course in which the difficulties are
>caused by such things as a steep long run-up instead of clever course
>design. In the USA, even at national level events, there simply aren't
>enough serious contenders to follow UCI course design and you can AND
>SHOULD make better courses where the determining factor for the winner
>is more dependant on skill and less on sheer strength.
>
I don't understand why you think a course, that at it's narrowest is just
under 10 feet (3 meters), can't
be a clever course. There are plenty of things that can be done with course
design to make a course a good cross skills course while still maintaining
the 10 ft width. What would your idea of better be? Please tell us what
the great cyclocross course designer Tom Kunich would do.
>It should say an awful lot that the cyclocross specialists were beaten
>by Lance.
I follow cross fairly closely. I don't know who those riders were. They are
not cross specialists. Nothing against them, they could be very good
regional riders for all I know. But that is all they are. Lance is a world
class professional. Perhaps you remember those 4 Tour de France victories...
Wade
Adam Hodges Myerson
wades...@cox.net wrote on 12/23/02 5:18 PM:
> I follow cross fairly closely. I don't know who those riders were. They are
> not cross specialists. Nothing against them, they could be very good
> regional riders for all I know. But that is all they are. Lance is a world
> class professional. Perhaps you remember those 4 Tour de France victories...
I consider Will Black a 'cross specialist, and a good rider. Consistent
top-30/20 SuperCup-type guy. Probably the best Texas 'cross rider.
Adam
Wade Summers
Adam Hodges Myerson wrote in message ...
OK. But are any of them the caliber of rider that Lance is? The argument
that the course was not skills based enough doesn't work given the
competition. A fair comparison would be against riders like Wellens,
Groenendaal, Declerq and Nys.
I think Lance is the best cross rider in Texas...
Wade
G.T.
Must be because of his mtn bike experience.
Ken Papai
"Adam Hodges Myerson" <adam.hodg...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:BA2CF7A7.5AFF%adam.hodg...@verizon.net...
Except for Lance?
Lance can also easily out-run these guys.
-Ken
>
> Adam
>
Stewart Fleming
than Lance in the Dirty Duathlon recently.
STF
armstrong
"Sharon Peters" <cyclo...@aol.comNoJunk> wrote in message
> >Subject: Re: This is what I call cross training
> >From: "armstrong"
>
> >Better than Marty!!?? are you out of your mind. You have never seen a
Six
> >day have you.
> >
> >Tom A.
> >
>
> Nope, and I still kick myself for not going to Copenhagen when I had the
> chance. While I'm usually full of crap, I don't think it's unreasonable
to
> think that LANCE would do better than Martha after some transition time.
He is
> after all a more endurance based rider, who has some background in
sprinting
> (pre cancer). And he does put out a shitload of watts.....
>
ground in sprinting and even after some transition Lance could never do as
well as Marty is doing.
Being a endurance based rider has nothing to do with it. Lance has no track
experience and would look silly out there with Risi, Betschart, Kappes,
Marty and others. I have no doubt that Lances endurance would not be his
problem. His biggest problem would be the speed the tracks and the SPEED.
If you ever have the chance to see a Six don't pass it up. I guarantee that
you then will agree that Lance would stand no chance.
Tom A.
Tom Kunich
news:PnMN9.283810$pN3.22007@sccrnsc03...
>
> "Adam Hodges Myerson" <adam.hodg...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:BA2CF7A7.5AFF%adam.hodg...@verizon.net...
> > top-30/20 SuperCup-type guy. Probably the best Texas 'cross rider.
>
> Except for Lance?
> Lance can also easily out-run these guys.
That's what I'm talking about. Running and cycling fast are Lance's
strengths and cyclocross is supposed to be about technique. Does anyone
think that Lance had better technique through the dismounts than Will?
Canuck
At the top level (Europe) the differentiator is usually power. They all have
good technique.
Wade Summers
Tom Kunich wrote in message ...
I think cyclocross is about the a combination of skills, including cross
technique, running and riding ability.
If it was all about technique they wouldn't bother racing, they would just
have a cross technique competition, like mtb trials riding.
Wade
Carl Sundquist
> you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. Lance never had a back
> ground in sprinting and even after some transition Lance could never do as
> well as Marty is doing.
> Being a endurance based rider has nothing to do with it. Lance has no track
> experience and would look silly out there with Risi, Betschart, Kappes,
> Marty and others. I have no doubt that Lances endurance would not be his
> problem. His biggest problem would be the speed the tracks and the SPEED.
> If you ever have the chance to see a Six don't pass it up. I guarantee that
> you then will agree that Lance would stand no chance.
>
> Tom A.
Tommy,
We can only speculate how successful LANCE would be in a six, but
remember that Lemond rode one back around 1990 (in France, no doubt).
He claimed something along the lines of a six requiring more
concentration than any bike race he had ever done (which may or may
not have been said for the sake of the event and press).
Tom Kunich
>
> I think cyclocross is about the a combination of skills, including cross
> technique, running and riding ability.
> If it was all about technique they wouldn't bother racing, they would just
> have a cross technique competition, like mtb trials riding.
So what do you think a cyclocross race is?
G.T.
Is that a trick question?
Sharon Peters
>Subject: Re: This is what I call cross training
>Date: 12/24/2002 10:28 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <QB9O9.5613$b97.5...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
Eunich-
When you post shit this dumb, it's almost not worth making fun of you. But I'm
bored, so check this out:
http://www.monkeyhillcs.com/humour/ronde_champ/
Hoping Tommy gets a clue for Christmas,
Not Andrew Albright
Adam Hodges Myerson
Kunich is the ulitimate troll, and we've all fallen for it.
I can't believe what suckers we all are!
I mean, we all read his shit and think "man, can he really be _that_ stupid?
Can he really think he can be such an expert about things he has absolutely
no experience with, in all seriousness?" And that's what gets everyone all
upset and worked up enough to reply to him and insult him. He and Papai are
like the RBR punching bags.
But that's when I had my epiphany: Kunich's sitting there in front of his
computer, cackling away like Andrew Albright, drunk, with cancer of the
fingers, laughing while everyone takes the bait. Except Kunich's approach is
so convincing, you don't even realize who's in control, him or you?
Does this mean, in the end, that Kunich is the ultimate troll, and the jokes
on all of us?
I shudder at the thought.
Adam
in article 20021224225958...@mb-cn.aol.com, Sharon Peters at
cyclo...@aol.comNoJunk wrote on 12/24/02 10:59 PM:
G.T.
>
> Does this mean, in the end, that Kunich is the ultimate troll, and the jokes
> on all of us?
>
> I shudder at the thought.
>
Don't worry. You're giving him waaaaaaaaaay too much credit.
Stewart Fleming
Adam Hodges Myerson wrote:
> Does this mean, in the end, that Kunich is the ultimate troll, and the jokes
> on all of us?
Don't be too hard on him.
When he mentioned this week that he was a project manager,
I suddenly had a great visualization of what "70% availability" was.
STF
Tom Kunich
news:BA2F4954.78B%adamm...@earthlink.net...
> Can he really think he can be such an expert about things he has
absolutely
> no experience with, in all seriousness?
You're right Adam. All of those courses that they set up in Santa Cruz for
cyclocross with the single track through the pine forest or the Redwoods
should be outlawed because it ain't REAL(tm) cyclocross.
REAL(tm) cyclocross has to be set up just one way with freeway-wide avenues
and a nice 12.5 meter long section of ground that has been dug 6.7 cm deep
and wetted down with 4 kilolitres of water plus or minus a certain book
value according to the temperature and humidity.
Look, cyclocross is supposed to be fun racing. You do remember all those
years ago when racing used to be fun don't you? Well, just because some
people want to make it a national level sport doesn't mean that is what it
should be. There's nothing the matter with the fact that no one has ever
heard of Clark Natwick outside of cyclocross circles.
And I, for one (apparently the only one), think that it's humorous that they
throw a cyclocross and Lance Armstrong shows up and wins his first
cyclocross.
In Santa Cruz he'd still be digging out from under 3 feet of pine needles
after he slipped off of the single track on the side of a cliff on a tree
root that stuck 8" above the trail. And the locals would be 10 minutes ahead
of him.
But, you know, I think that Lance would still have a good time and he'd
accept that the local guys who were used to those sorts of circuits would
necessarily be better at them.
Too bad that you guys all want to have the same kind of races you're used
to. You're all a bunch of BMXers.
scott patton
Tom Kunich <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Too bad that you guys all want to have the same kind of races you're used
>to. You're all a bunch of BMXers.
>
Jamie Staff... BMXer, making an estimated $250,000 a year, picks up
a track bike and wins a rainbow jersey over some of the best sprinters
in the world.
Des Dickie is currently testing BMX racers to find new sprinters.
Brian Lopes has one of the fastest 1/2 lap splits in the world.
What's wrong with being a BMXer?
Scott
--
-*- Scott Patton
-*- Colorado Springs, CO
-*- http://www.FixedGearFever.com
-*- Track Racing Web Services
G.T.
> In article <qulO9.5193$ka5.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> Tom Kunich <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>Too bad that you guys all want to have the same kind of races you're used
>>to. You're all a bunch of BMXers.
>>
>
>
> Jamie Staff... BMXer, making an estimated $250,000 a year, picks up
> a track bike and wins a rainbow jersey over some of the best sprinters
> in the world.
>
> Des Dickie is currently testing BMX racers to find new sprinters.
>
> Brian Lopes has one of the fastest 1/2 lap splits in the world.
>
> What's wrong with being a BMXer?
>
Nothing. Other than it's even more boring to watch than track.
G.T.
> "Adam Hodges Myerson" <adamm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:BA2F4954.78B%adamm...@earthlink.net...
>
>>Can he really think he can be such an expert about things he has
>
> absolutely
>
>>no experience with, in all seriousness?
>
>
> You're right Adam. All of those courses that they set up in Santa Cruz for
> cyclocross with the single track through the pine forest or the Redwoods
> should be outlawed because it ain't REAL(tm) cyclocross.
>
> REAL(tm) cyclocross has to be set up just one way with freeway-wide avenues
> and a nice 12.5 meter long section of ground that has been dug 6.7 cm deep
> and wetted down with 4 kilolitres of water plus or minus a certain book
> value according to the temperature and humidity.
>
> Look, cyclocross is supposed to be fun racing. You do remember all those
> years ago when racing used to be fun don't you? Well, just because some
> people want to make it a national level sport doesn't mean that is what it
> should be. There's nothing the matter with the fact that no one has ever
> heard of Clark Natwick outside of cyclocross circles.
>
> And I, for one (apparently the only one), think that it's humorous that they
> throw a cyclocross and Lance Armstrong shows up and wins his first
> cyclocross.
>
Actually I agree with TK on the overall boringness of regulation 'cross
courses. But I don't think it's humorous that Lance won his first 'cross
race. He is strong. He can handle a bike. He can run. He is strong.
Good combination for 'cross.
Tom Kunich
news:aucp38$h1c$1...@babu.pcisys.net...
> In article <qulO9.5193$ka5.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> Tom Kunich <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> >Too bad that you guys all want to have the same kind of races you're used
> >to. You're all a bunch of BMXers.
>
> Jamie Staff... BMXer, making an estimated $250,000 a year, picks up
> a track bike and wins a rainbow jersey over some of the best sprinters
> in the world.
>
> Des Dickie is currently testing BMX racers to find new sprinters.
>
> Brian Lopes has one of the fastest 1/2 lap splits in the world.
>
> What's wrong with being a BMXer?
There's nothing wrong with being a BMXer unless you call it cyclocross.
Tom Kunich
news:T2nO9.17$aN1.1...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> > "Adam Hodges Myerson" <adamm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:BA2F4954.78B%adamm...@earthlink.net...
> >
> >>Can he really think he can be such an expert about things he has
> > absolutely no experience with, in all seriousness?
> >
> > You're right Adam. All of those courses that they set up in Santa Cruz
for
> > cyclocross with the single track through the pine forest or the Redwoods
> > should be outlawed because it ain't REAL(tm) cyclocross.
>
> courses. But I don't think it's humorous that Lance won his first 'cross
> race. He is strong. He can handle a bike. He can run. He is strong.
> Good combination for 'cross.
But you would think that if you had a "challenging" course that technique
would be more important than raw strength. I just can't picture Lance having
good transitions and neither can I picture him bunny hopping barriers or
handling single track slippery off-camber stuff.
We all know that he's the strongest cyclist in the world, but why have all
races become dependent on strength instead of finisse? That sure screws up
the beer drinking afterwards.
Jim A
>
Don't forget the 2002 TdF points champ was a BMX'er until he turned 18
scott patton
G.T. <eth...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>scott patton wrote:
>> In article <qulO9.5193$ka5.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>> Tom Kunich <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Too bad that you guys all want to have the same kind of races you're used
>>>to. You're all a bunch of BMXers.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Jamie Staff... BMXer, making an estimated $250,000 a year, picks up
>> a track bike and wins a rainbow jersey over some of the best sprinters
>> in the world.
>>
>> Des Dickie is currently testing BMX racers to find new sprinters.
>>
>> Brian Lopes has one of the fastest 1/2 lap splits in the world.
>>
>> What's wrong with being a BMXer?
>>
>
>Nothing. Other than it's even more boring to watch than track.
I haven't really seen much BMX, but I never found it really boring.
I guess if the time between heats was long, it would be.
As for track, I only find timed championship events boring to watch,
and even then, at the world cup level, they can keep you on the
edge of your seat.
Road racing? ugh... nothing like watching 200 guys ride through
a field to put you to sleep.
Jim Quinn
If the course were a super technical course like you describe then that
would be a mtn bike course not a cyclocross course. Cyclocross includes
some technical sections but it's roots are in road racing not in mtb racing.
And I think all the dismounts in this race were mandatory dismounts.
Typically the Texas Cross races have two or three barriers in a row. You
might be able to bunny hop the first one but you then have another barrier
just a few yards after the first barrier. Trying to hop two in a row is
darn near impossible.
His main competitor in this race was Will Black who is very technically
accomplished and pretty stong. In this case Lance was just a little better.
Danny Callen
"Adam Hodges Myerson" <adamm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BA2F4954.78B%adamm...@earthlink.net...
I don't know but what kind of dorky ass cross race has you put a number on
the front of your bike?!!!??
Danny Callen
Danny Callen
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:cioO9.5395$ka5.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Lance is racing in Freakin' Texas not Belgium and in a race that has you put
a damn number on the front of your bike like a two-bit first year Mtn Bike
race!!!!!!!!
Danny Callen
Sparhawk
So what? You wouldn't be able to compete with him if you stuck the
number up your ass! <g>
Sparhawk
Sparhawk
Obviously, the kind that you can't enter!
Sparhawk
Benjamin Weiner
> You're right Adam. All of those courses that they set up in Santa Cruz for
> cyclocross with the single track through the pine forest or the Redwoods
> should be outlawed because it ain't REAL(tm) cyclocross. ...
> In Santa Cruz he'd still be digging out from under 3 feet of pine needles
> after he slipped off of the single track on the side of a cliff on a tree
> root that stuck 8" above the trail. And the locals would be 10 minutes ahead
> of him.
Tom, when are you going to stop acting as if you are the final
authority and spokesman for Santa Cruz-area cyclocross?
Been to any races recently?
Looked at http://members.aol.com/napavelo/surfhist.htm
for thoughts on course design?
Tom Kunich
You are indicating that I've been "acting as a spokesman" when I've
been saying that cyclocross courses shouldn't be limited to European
high level races requiring wide open power-needing layouts. I've been
using courses such as the one at that school somewhere around Boulder
Creek that runs off into the pines or the one down in Nicene Marks
that went through the Redwoods as examples of challenging courses THAT
ARE DIFFERENT FROM THOSE ADVOCATED.
As a rule, national and international level races cannot provide a
very interesting course because the need for absolute fairness to all
mandates a course where you can pass at any point. So top level races
place more importance on strength than on technique and it is
technique that most low level racers race with. Or at least try to
get.
But if you think that making cyclocross look like a European
international event is going to improve things here then promote that
sort of thing and see how far it gets. BMX got VERY popular for awhile
too.
As for me, I remember those old time motorcycle races where everyone
showed up to have fun and there wasn't a load of people pretending
that they were going to spend the rest of their lives making a living
at doing nothing else. Often when a national rider would show up he'd
have his clock cleaned because the local guys would have the courses
dialed. So the national riders complained that the courses weren't
fair and they started laying out courses that all looked the same. Now
they apparently have these motocross race courses like the one in
Altamont Pass or out at Carnegie - and the old club atmosphere is
gone, the fun is gone and the only thing left is those guys who think
that they're going to live the rest of their lives making a living
playing a game. Go ride the half pipe dude.
When I showed up for bicycle racing I expected that club atmosphere
and it wasn't there. But when I attended a couple of cyclocross events
it had all of the trappings for those kinds of races to come back.
Instead I see everyone advocating the same stupid crap as everywhere
else. Make it a "professional event" as if that was preferable to
anyone but those little children who want to make a living out of
cyclocross. And like we have tons of cyclocross stars in the world
making a living at it don't we?
BMXers of the world have a new target.
Tom Kunich
> Tom Kunich wrote:
> >
> > Already they've decided that they have to design cyclocross courses in
> > such a manner that it decidedly disadvantages MTB riders.
>
> What's the problem with that? It's cyclocross. If MTB riders don't want
> to be disadvantaged they should race NORBA or buy a 'cross bike. The point
> is to have fun, or in reality to suffer, on a bike similar to one's road
> bike. If you promote an event that caters to mountain bikes then there's
> going to be zero differentiation from NORBA short course cross-country
> races. IOW, lame ass races catering to professionals and their sponors
> without an ounce of FUN left for the rest of us fat asses.
That's the problem Greg. I remember reading those people who wanted to
get rid of mountain bikes on the course so they started designing
courses without any extended climbs where the MTB's would have an
advantage. They they wanted to get rid of steep, rough drops that
would give the MTB's an advantage. And then any rough terrain at all
that would give MTB's an advantage.
So the courses are all going to become vanilla, BMX courses with a
run-up, three barriers 2 meters apart, 3 meters wide over the entire
course, a mud pit and a section of pavement. And where ever you go
you'll be able to ride the same course with different scenary around
the course boundaries.
I suppose that if you fancy yourself a professional you prefer it that
way since you'll never get any surprises.
Ken Papai
"Danny Callen" <dan...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:audtb7$ggp$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:cioO9.5395$ka5.6...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > "G.T." <eth...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> > news:T2nO9.17$aN1.1...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
> > > Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > > "Adam Hodges Myerson" <adamm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > > > news:BA2F4954.78B%adamm...@earthlink.net...
> > > >
> > > >>Can he really think he can be such an expert about things he has
you put
> a damn number on the front of your bike like a two-bit first year Mtn Bike
> race!!!!!!!!
>
> Danny Callen
I think you sent off the deep end on such a trivial deal
as the numbers on front of the bikes., Heck it's better than
having to pin them to your jersey!!
-Ken
Dan Connelly
Ken Papai wrote
> I think you sent off the deep end on such a trivial deal
> as the numbers on front of the bikes., Heck it's better than
> having to pin them to your jersey!!
>
> -Ken
No, it's definitely fred -- "I'm so moto".
Dan
Dan Connelly
Tom Kunich wrote:
> I suppose that if you fancy yourself a professional you prefer it that
> way since you'll never get any surprises.
Someone at Cross Nationals suggested they let wild dogs run on the course.
Just a few, to keep it interesting. And muzzled. We wouldn't want
anyone getting too badly hurt.
Dan
warren
Danny Callen
"Ken Papai" <k...@kenpapai.com> wrote in message
news:mEHO9.516930$NH2.33940@sccrnsc01...
Oh Ken my freind you have been in California with those high Homeowners
premiums WAY too long! Time to come East and learn the Cyclocross thang!
Danny Callen
Ken Papai
>
> "Ken Papai" <k...@kenpapai.com> wrote in message
> news:mEHO9.516930$NH2.33940@sccrnsc01...
> >
> > > > Danny Callen
> >
> > as the numbers on front of the bikes., Heck it's better than
> > having to pin them to your jersey!!
> >
> > -Ken
> >
> >
>
> Oh Ken my freind you have been in California with those high Homeowners
> premiums WAY too long! Time to come East and learn the Cyclocross thang!
>
> Danny Callen
I recently visited Boston, Cambridge, Braintree, Norwood, Canton,
and Stoughton. I cannot forget Newton either.
Saw a lot of pricey homes there too increasing in value (esp. Canton).
Good racing!
-Ken
Wade Summers
Tom Kunich wrote in message
<484e7721.02122...@posting.google.com>...
>"G.T." <eth...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:<DxJN9.741$lH6.44...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>...
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >
>> > Already they've decided that they have to design cyclocross courses in
>> > such a manner that it decidedly disadvantages MTB riders.
>
>get rid of mountain bikes on the course so they started designing
>courses without any extended climbs where the MTB's would have an
>advantage. They they wanted to get rid of steep, rough drops that
>would give the MTB's an advantage. And then any rough terrain at all
>that would give MTB's an advantage.
>
And promoters should design courses with cyclocross bikes in mind because it
is a cyclocross race not a mountain bike race. The difference is quite
dramatic - riding a mountain bike over rough terrain and riding a cyclocross
bike over the same terrain. Stuff that wouldn't even phase you on a mtb
with wide tires and suspension can be down right dangerous on a cross bike.
If you want to do a mountain bike race go do a mountain bike race. It is a
different sport. Remember cyclocross has it roots in road racing and came
along long before mountain bikes were even thought of.
I think many courses having mountain bike terrain have that terrain because
the clubs putting on the races only have ( or had ) experience putting on
mountain bike races or road races. They may have never seen a true
cyclocross course. The terrain was not put there because it makes for a
unique cross race, it was put there because the people didn't know any
better. Cyclocross? Must be a combination of road racing and mountain
biking. Right? Wrong.
>So the courses are all going to become vanilla, BMX courses with a
>run-up, three barriers 2 meters apart, 3 meters wide over the entire
>course, a mud pit and a section of pavement. And where ever you go
>you'll be able to ride the same course with different scenary around
>the course boundaries.
Again with the BMX. What, did some kid on a BMX bike pick on you or
something...
I think the leap you make from courses being designed to be good cyclocross
courses to all courses being "vanilla" and all the same is far fetched.
Come east next fall. Race all the New England races on a cross bike and see
if you find them technically easy. See if they are all the same. See if the
racing isn't fun.
>
>I suppose that if you fancy yourself a professional you prefer it that
>way since you'll never get any surprises.
(from an earlier Kunich post)
>What I'm finding objectionable about Albright and his gang of two is
>that I don't want to see cyclocross, the last refuge of unprofessional
>FUN racing, reduced to a formulaic play-station-esque bit of
>professional money making show gamesmanship.
And what is this? The last refuge of unprofessional racing? Where have you
been racing? I did upwards of 50 races this year between road and cross and
99% were all put on for non-professionals. Even at Crit Nats, where the big
show is the Pro race, the majority of the races were for amateurs. Cross
nats too. Lots and lots of racers who are there because it is fun. How
many Pro only races are there in this country? Very few. Most races; road,
cross, mountain or otherwise are put on by clubs for club riders. If a
couple of local pros show up for the P1/2 race, great. If some clubs get
some sponsorship and can afford, announcing stands, banners, barriers,
making there event look "pro" - all the better.
And what do you really care about cyclocross? How many cyclocross races did
you do this year? How many have you ever done? How many did you go watch?
What is your experience? And I don't want to hear about the good ol' days of
motorcycle racing, BMX or mountain biking. They have nothing to do with
cyclocross.
Wade
Greg Hall
> No, it's definitely fred -- "I'm so moto".
>
> Dan
No, it's not completely definitely fred but having a number tat plus a
number plate, plus a chest number just might be. See:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/?id=2002/dec02/dirtyduathlon/low.rez.470B8113
As I recall from last year's cyclocross race, the one and only
official requested the number plate scheme in order to ease scoring as
a volunteer would call out the approaching rider's number. It was a
nice try but some lapped riders were still scored incorrectly.
Greg Hall
casey Kerrigan
wades...@cox.net wrote on 12/26/02 7:35 PM:
>>
>
> And promoters should design courses with cyclocross bikes in mind because it
> is a cyclocross race not a mountain bike race. The difference is quite
> dramatic - riding a mountain bike over rough terrain and riding a cyclocross
> bike over the same terrain. Stuff that wouldn't even phase you on a mtb
> with wide tires and suspension can be down right dangerous on a cross bike.
> If you want to do a mountain bike race go do a mountain bike race. It is a
> different sport. Remember cyclocross has it roots in road racing and came
> along long before mountain bikes were even thought of.
Interesting that the UCI Web site in talking about Cross racing points out
the main difference between Cross racing and Mt. bike racing is the rules
dealing with Tech support
"Where cyclo-cross and mountain bike racing differ in ideology is in-race
technical support. In mountain biking, the rider must be fully
self-sufficient to carry out in-race repair work should his machine
malfunction. In contrast, a cyclo-cross racer is allowed to use up to three
bicycles in a race. Since this is a winter sport and the tracks are often
very muddy, a clean cyclo-cross bike can weigh in excess of 10kg less than a
muddy one!"
In talking aobut what a Cross course is like the UCI web site says
"For a start cyclo-cross is a winter-time sport. Woodland trails, open
meadows, and short, steep hills are the main features of a cyclo-cross
course. Normally the circuit is in the region of 2.5-3km, and the race
duration around one hour."
Casey
Tom Kunich
news:BA310EA7.38F20%ca...@caseykerrigan.com...
>
> "For a start cyclo-cross is a winter-time sport. Woodland trails, open
> meadows, and short, steep hills are the main features of a cyclo-cross
> course. Normally the circuit is in the region of 2.5-3km, and the race
> duration around one hour."
And the complaints I have is that a "woodland trail" isn't 3 meters wide and
I'd hate to rnu a 3 meterwide track through an open meadow.
I like Connelly's suggestion about loosing wild dogs on the circuit. That's
the kind of thing that we used to laugh about in club motorcycle racing.
I don't know about you Wade, but my guess is that you aren't going to earn a
living racing bicycles any time soon. So why not have circuits that are not
laid out with an eye towards copying last years Worlds circuit?
Casey, when you were racing it was a lot more relaxed wasn't it? Or did
everyone take it serious then (I mean besides Clark.)
BTW, the people that put on the University Crit on UC Berkeley Campus back
in the 70's showed me a program from the '75 version and two names that
sprung out were Clark Natwick and Tom Simonson. I'm trying to picture Tom in
racing trim. (try.......try..........try............)
Dan Connelly
casey Kerrigan wrote:
> "For a start cyclo-cross is a winter-time sport
Interesting as well that the only winter cyclocross in the US is, AFAIK,
in Texas.
Dan
casey Kerrigan
wrote on 12/27/02 2:19 AM:
Central Coast is having a Cross race in actual winter ( and generally their
last race of the season has been in winter).
Casey
casey Kerrigan
at tku...@earthlink.net wrote on 12/26/02 9:16 PM:
>
> Casey, when you were racing it was a lot more relaxed wasn't it? Or did
> everyone take it serious then (I mean besides Clark.)
The whole sport ( road, track and Cross) was much more relaxed. Once "real
money" started making it's way into the prizelists then things changed
people started taking themselves and their racing way to seriously.
Casey
Dan Connelly
casey Kerrigan wrote:
>>Interesting as well that the only winter cyclocross in the US is, AFAIK,
>>in Texas.
>>
>>Dan
>>
>
> Central Coast is having a Cross race in actual winter ( and generally their
> last race of the season has been in winter).
OTOH, with the road season starting 11 days after the solstice (leading
to the onset of rider burnout by the equinox....), there
just isn't much time for "winter" sports :).
Dan
Doug Fuller
>
> And I, for one (apparently the only one), think that it's humorous that they
> throw a cyclocross and Lance Armstrong shows up and wins his first
> cyclocross.
I would like to submit that this isn't Lance's first cyclocross
experience. Remember the (Nike?) commercial where he's riding with a
bunch of dudes, turns off into the woods, they all crash and he rides
away? While in the woods he was on a 'cross bike. I rest my case ;-)
Cheers,
Doug Fuller
Tom Kunich
> "Tom Kunich" <cycl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:484e7721.02122...@posting.google.com...
>
> > Already they've decided that they have to design cyclocross courses in
> > such a manner that it decidedly disadvantages MTB riders.
>
> advantaged.
>
> duh!
If you have to take great pains to design a race course that doesn't
give a decided advantage to a bicycle design that was made
specifically for off road racing that's telling you that it is a
superior design. DUH.
Remends me of the time they held that race from the California desert
to the coast. There was one section of course that was 30 miles of
paved road. Tinker Juarez got there first, changed to road wheels on
his MTB and hit the other end in 1 hour flat. It would have been
pretty hard to beat that time if he had just changed to a road bike.
What does it say about cyclocross if the specialized bikes designed
for it are only faster when you have to pick them up and carry them?
Danny Callen
Shoukd have come for a visit! I wouldn't live in any of those areas for all
the tea ioin China! New Hampshire is where it's at!!
Danny Callen
Tom Kunich
news:9787985f.02122...@posting.google.com...
Party pooper.
Danny Callen
> get rid of mountain bikes on the course so they started designing
> courses without any extended climbs where the MTB's would have an
> advantage. They they wanted to get rid of steep, rough drops that
> would give the MTB's an advantage. And then any rough terrain at all
> that would give MTB's an advantage.
>
> So the courses are all going to become vanilla, BMX courses with a
> run-up, three barriers 2 meters apart, 3 meters wide over the entire
> course, a mud pit and a section of pavement. And where ever you go
> you'll be able to ride the same course with different scenary around
> the course boundaries.
>
> I suppose that if you fancy yourself a professional you prefer it that
> way since you'll never get any surprises.
I'm sorry Tom but this has got to b be the dumbest posts I have ever read in
my entire RBR life. You discussing Cyclocross courses is similar to me
discussing brain surgery. I'm really suprised that anyone even waste their
time replying to these kinds of posts. I think Adam is correct, you are the
ulti mate troller and have everyone fooled.
Danny Callen