Bobby Julich and supplements
null
training center camp. On the bulletin board was a flier for a
supplement program to make you a world class cyclist. I called the
number and spent about 20 minutes talking to someone on the other end of
the line who told me about how great the supplement program was. The
program was VERY expensive and to me it sure sounded like drugs since
the guy said that the first step would be to get a blood test from my
doctor. Just before I ended the call, the guy mentioned that he was
Bobby Julich's dad. I always thought the call was really strange and to
this day don't know if it was drugs or just really expensive normal
supplements.
For all I know, it might have been clean stuff but the phone call left a
bad taste in my mouth. The issue with Tyler and all the recent drug
cases make me think back to this call. Does anyone on the list have any
memory of a supplement business run by Bobby Julich's dad?
Also, I have never taken any supplements other then multivitimens. Does
anyone know if top cyclists benefit from legal supplements or do these
just make your wallet lighter?
Warren
"null" <nu...@null.com> wrote in message
news:u9edd.2738$ta5...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> About 14 years ago, when I was a 17 year old Junior I went to an Olympic
> training center camp. On the bulletin board was a flier for a
> supplement program to make you a world class cyclist. I called the
> number and spent about 20 minutes talking to someone on the other end of
> the line who told me about how great the supplement program was. The
> program was VERY expensive and to me it sure sounded like drugs since
> the guy said that the first step would be to get a blood test from my
> doctor. Just before I ended the call, the guy mentioned that he was
> Bobby Julich's dad. I always thought the call was really strange and to
> this day don't know if it was drugs or just really expensive normal
> supplements.
>
> For all I know, it might have been clean stuff but the phone call left a
> bad taste in my mouth. The issue with Tyler and all the recent drug
> cases make me think back to this call. Does anyone on the list have any
> memory of a supplement business run by Bobby Julich's dad?
I doubt that. From people who have worked with Bobby, he is not a guy who
would even use completely legal supplements.
>
> Also, I have never taken any supplements other then multivitimens. Does
> anyone know if top cyclists benefit from legal supplements or do these
> just make your wallet lighter?
"Supplements" is a very wide category. Most are not worthwhile.
-WG
Tom Kunich
news:Frgdd.7852$6q2....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "null" <nu...@null.com> wrote in message
> news:u9edd.2738$ta5...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>>
>> bad taste in my mouth. The issue with Tyler and all the recent drug
>> cases make me think back to this call. Does anyone on the list have any
>> memory of a supplement business run by Bobby Julich's dad?
>
> I doubt that. From people who have worked with Bobby, he is not a guy who
> would even use completely legal supplements.
If Memory serves, Bobby was a VERY big vegetarian/supplimental vitamin guy.
I wouldn't doubt that this wa Bobby's Dad and I also wouldn't doubt that
we're talking vitamins. The good stuff ain't cheap. I used to buy some from
a company that was pretty expensive but they reformulated them and you could
feel that they didn't work anymore. Recently I started taking the vitamins
from E-caps and THEY WORK and aren't too expensive. Last Saturday I did my
fastest ride over 40 miles. I pushed into a headwind for 25 miles which took
two hours and then did the next 45 miles mostly cross wind in another 2
hours. I'm a believer.
>> Also, I have never taken any supplements other then multivitimens. Does
>> anyone know if top cyclists benefit from legal supplements or do these
>> just make your wallet lighter?
>
> "Supplements" is a very wide category. Most are not worthwhile.
That may be true but then Pro cyclists use injectable vitamins. I can't
imagine that they'd stick needles into themselves if it wasn't adding
something.
Warren
"Tom Kunich" <cycl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e%hdd.1808$%h1....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Warren" <war...@USVHremove.com> wrote in message
> news:Frgdd.7852$6q2....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "null" <nu...@null.com> wrote in message
> > news:u9edd.2738$ta5...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Does
> >> anyone know if top cyclists benefit from legal supplements or do these
> >> just make your wallet lighter?
> >
> > "Supplements" is a very wide category. Most are not worthwhile.
>
> That may be true but then Pro cyclists use injectable vitamins. I can't
> imagine that they'd stick needles into themselves if it wasn't adding
> something.
Consider the dozens of supplements. How many do anything good? A half dozen,
maybe?
-WG
Badger South
>If Memory serves, Bobby was a VERY big vegetarian/supplimental vitamin guy.
>I wouldn't doubt that this wa Bobby's Dad and I also wouldn't doubt that
>we're talking vitamins. The good stuff ain't cheap. I used to buy some from
>a company that was pretty expensive but they reformulated them and you could
>feel that they didn't work anymore. Recently I started taking the vitamins
>from E-caps and THEY WORK and aren't too expensive. Last Saturday I did my
>fastest ride over 40 miles. I pushed into a headwind for 25 miles which took
>two hours and then did the next 45 miles mostly cross wind in another 2
>hours. I'm a believer.
That's pretty cool. Lag time? (time from start of regime until this test).
>>> Also, I have never taken any supplements other then multivitimens. Does
>>> anyone know if top cyclists benefit from legal supplements or do these
>>> just make your wallet lighter?
>>
>> "Supplements" is a very wide category. Most are not worthwhile.
>
>That may be true but then Pro cyclists use injectable vitamins. I can't
>imagine that they'd stick needles into themselves if it wasn't adding
>something.
That reminds me of a study I participated in for the Med Ctr. I
self-injected (abdominally) growth hormone -releaser- substance to see if
certain athletic performances improved, along with body re-composition
testing. I'd bet this stuff would really give one a boost if they were
heavy into training, and wouldn't be detectable as a PED. I don't have the
exact chemical make up - it may have been as prosaic as Ornithine and
Arginine.
-B
mike schatzman
> training center camp. On the bulletin board was a flier for a
> supplement program to make you a world class cyclist. I called the
> number and spent about 20 minutes talking to someone on the other end of
> the line who told me about how great the supplement program was.
the guy mentioned that he was
> Bobby Julich's dad. I always thought the call was really strange
that is weird.
did he try to talk you into selling them? it was probably amway. did
he mention "things you use everday!"
I don't think any drug dealer would have the balls to post a flier at
the junior olympic training center advertising dope, but it was 1990
right? when the greg strock stuff was going on.
I would assume it was legit, and he was just trying to sell you
yohimbe bark and vitamin b-15 snake oil serum.
Did anyone see the episode of South Park with the down syndrome
steroid dealer at the special olympics? very offensive, but at the
same time a very sad commentary on doping.
L. Seer
> news:u9edd.2738$ta5...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > About 14 years ago, when I was a 17 year old Junior I went to an Olympic
> > training center camp. On the bulletin board was a flier for a
> > supplement program to make you a world class cyclist. I called the
> > number and spent about 20 minutes talking to someone on the other end of
> > the line who told me about how great the supplement program was. The
> > program was VERY expensive and to me it sure sounded like drugs since
> > the guy said that the first step would be to get a blood test from my
> > doctor. Just before I ended the call, the guy mentioned that he was
> > Bobby Julich's dad. I always thought the call was really strange and to
> > this day don't know if it was drugs or just really expensive normal
> > supplements.
> >
> > For all I know, it might have been clean stuff but the phone call left a
> > bad taste in my mouth. The issue with Tyler and all the recent drug
> > cases make me think back to this call. Does anyone on the list have any
> > memory of a supplement business run by Bobby Julich's dad?
>
> I doubt that. From people who have worked with Bobby, he is not a guy who
> would even use completely legal supplements.
Yea...he wouldn't waste his money on completely legal supplements
unless he was/is getting them for free. Anything beyond moderate
vitamin/mineral supplements, unless a quantified deficiency under such
a regimine is documented, is not worth the cost of their labels.
matabala
"Tom Kunich" <cycl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e%hdd.1808$%h1....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> If Memory serves, Bobby was a VERY big vegetarian/supplimental vitamin
guy.
> I wouldn't doubt that this wa Bobby's Dad and I also wouldn't doubt that
> we're talking vitamins. The good stuff ain't cheap.
sounds like you're the perfect customer for the snake oil salesman. When I
think of a vitamin I'm reading the contents of a one-a-day tablet bottle.
Your "good stuff" ain't coming in the same bottle.
>I used to buy some from
> a company that was pretty expensive but they reformulated them and you
could
> feel that they didn't work anymore.
welcome to the slippery slope of doping
>Recently I started taking the vitamins
> from E-caps and THEY WORK and aren't too expensive. Last Saturday I did my
> fastest ride over 40 miles. I pushed into a headwind for 25 miles which
took
> two hours and then did the next 45 miles mostly cross wind in another 2
> hours. I'm a believer.
I'm a believer too, that you're a RUBE albeit a mindless consuming one.
TM
"mike schatzman" <mi...@dlowracing.org> wrote in message
news:5aa3c63e.04101...@posting.google.com...
> Did anyone see the episode of South Park with the down syndrome
> steroid dealer at the special olympics? very offensive, but at the
> same time a very sad commentary on doping.
Four Leg's finest performance!
Brian trdina
> training center camp. On the bulletin board was a flier for a
> supplement program to make you a world class cyclist. I called the
> number and spent about 20 minutes talking to someone on the other end of
> the line who told me about how great the supplement program was. The
> program was VERY expensive and to me it sure sounded like drugs since
> the guy said that the first step would be to get a blood test from my
> doctor. Just before I ended the call, the guy mentioned that he was
> Bobby Julich's dad. I always thought the call was really strange and to
> this day don't know if it was drugs or just really expensive normal
> supplements.
>
> For all I know, it might have been clean stuff but the phone call left a
> bad taste in my mouth. The issue with Tyler and all the recent drug
> cases make me think back to this call. Does anyone on the list have any
> memory of a supplement business run by Bobby Julich's dad?
>
>
That's funny, because I've heard of juniors getting similar offers
from a business run by Kunich's mom.
Thanks,
Brian
Jack Hollis
>Anything beyond moderate
>vitamin/mineral supplements, unless a quantified deficiency under such
>a regimine is documented, is not worth the cost of their labels.
Someone once said that all people get from taking mega-doses of
vitamins is expensive urine.
Tom Kunich
news:78ebn0pl1p6hi9oi2...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:07:38 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <cycl...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>If Memory serves, Bobby was a VERY big vegetarian/supplimental vitamin
>>guy.
>>I wouldn't doubt that this wa Bobby's Dad and I also wouldn't doubt that
>>we're talking vitamins. The good stuff ain't cheap. I used to buy some
>>from
>>a company that was pretty expensive but they reformulated them and you
>>could
>>feel that they didn't work anymore. Recently I started taking the vitamins
>>from E-caps and THEY WORK and aren't too expensive. Last Saturday I did my
>>fastest ride over 40 miles. I pushed into a headwind for 25 miles which
>>took
>>two hours and then did the next 45 miles mostly cross wind in another 2
>>hours. I'm a believer.
>
> That's pretty cool. Lag time? (time from start of regime until this test).
I was taking them for about a couple of weeks. Nothing that had to do with
more strength of more power or any of that crap. But a noticable difference
in recovery time from hard rides. A week ago I lead a club century where I
had to lead everyone then get them going down a long road while I waited to
make sure that the stragglers didn't miss the turn, then ride forward after
those who might be two or three minutes ahead in order to make sure that
they didn't miss the next turn and do it all over again. At the end of the
day I was still feeling chipper enough that I lead the group into the
finish. I took more of those things on Sunday and on Monday I was feeling
good. This Saturday I thought I was feeling bad because of the headwind and
the fact that I could only do 14 into it until I discovered that I was one
of the early one's back to the start.
All year I've been doing a hard ride and feeling bad for days afterwards.
Since taking these vitamins I'm recovering in only a day. Standard
Disclaimer - Friday I turn 60. Younger guys may not have the same response.
Tom Kunich
news:ut7dn0d7a2sc7p7gf...@4ax.com...
And I used to believe that until rather newer tests have been showing that
not to be the case. Vitamin C in particular has been greatly undre
appreciated and the FDA is reviewing it to suggest a very much larger dailey
dose. B vitamins have been implicated in energy production now and the
newest series of "high energy drinks" with zero calories are a big load of B
vitamins. I laughed at it but people are telling me that it works. Yeah,
well the vitamins I'm taking have a large load of B vitamins and and hour
after taking them I feel like I've swallowed two espressos. No caffeine on
the label though.
So, I might have been mistaken to believe studies that used FDA doses of
vitamins and reported no changes.
I'm still looking into it.
warren
Kunich <cycl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
For recovery, try 1000mg of C before your ride and another after the
ride. Niacin will dialate your blood vessels. Try B "50" from Trader
Joes and Kirkland brand "C" from Costco.
I can almost always tell (later) when I've forgotten the C.
-WG
TM
"Tom Kunich" <cycl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:GnCdd.2583$%
> Disclaimer - Friday I turn 60. Younger guys may not have the same
> response.
>
Happy Birthday!
Do you think Bill Z got you anything this year?
Badger South
I used to take CTR brand vits which had an actual insoluble matrix that the
vitamin substrate was bonded to giving real time-release effects. That
stuff was pretty noticeable as to strength and recovery both. Don't know if
they're still in biz. (Now a days companies -say- time release, but do it
with a protein coating and once the pill breaks in half, it's released all
at once, mostly.)
OK, here they are...bottles are completely different but I recognize them.
http://www.bioenergyinc.com/CTRnutrients.htm
They even tout time-release Glutamine.
My experience was with the stuff they sold in the 80s, so disclaimer, ymmv,
etc.
-B
Dave Stoller
Dave Stoller
Blood doping occured there ....
No connection that I know of. But I was not in the know, was I ?
"Jack Hollis" <xsle...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:ut7dn0d7a2sc7p7gf...@4ax.com...
Howard Kveck
wrote:
Yeah, a helmet.
--
tanx,
Howard
"It looks like the squirrel's been showing everybody
where he keeps his nuts."
remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
Andy Coggan
news:201020041654360895%war...@usvhremove.com...
> Niacin will dialate your blood vessels.
The ones in your skin anyway...but at the same time, it will suppress
lipolysis, resulting in greater utiliation of muscle glycogen and premature
fatigue (not to mention that megadoses may eventually lead to liver damage).
Andy Coggan
h squared
Andy Coggan wrote:
>
> The ones in your skin anyway...but at the same time, it will suppress
> lipolysis, resulting in greater utiliation of muscle glycogen and premature
> fatigue (not to mention that megadoses may eventually lead to liver damage).
how much do you mean by "megadose"? i don't want liver damage..
heather
Warren
"h squared" <clevistoreply...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4177B89B...@comcast.net...
Based on what I found quickly with Google you'd have to be taking at least
20 times the amount I suggested (50mg) for quite awhile to risk liver
damage. "Megadoses" of 1000mg to 3000mg are sometimes prescribed to help
people with cholesterol problems, and these people and their doctors are the
ones who seem to be concerned about possible liver damage.
-WG
-WG
Warren
"Andy Coggan" <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jWMdd.3168$KJ6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "warren" <war...@usvhremove.com> wrote in message
> news:201020041654360895%war...@usvhremove.com...
>
> > Niacin will dialate your blood vessels.
>
> The ones in your skin anyway...but at the same time, it will suppress
> lipolysis, resulting in greater utiliation of muscle glycogen and
premature
> fatigue
Are there any study abstracts available online that discuss this for
athletes who are eating normally, i.e. not fasting before the test?
-WG
Andy Coggan
I can't answer that offhand...but why do you think that nutritional state
would make any difference? Skipping breakfast would affect liver glycogen
stores, but not really influence muscle glycogen content.
Andy Coggan
warren
Coggan <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Blood sugar levels matter for an athlete during exercise. The only
study abstract I could find that related to what you've said tested
subjects who were not exercising, and who had fasted 14 hours before
the testing began. Low blood sugar leads to certain things happening
that aren't happening for an athlete who is exercising and not fasting.
-WG
Andy Coggan
> In article <6r_dd.3868$KJ6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Andy
> Coggan <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> "Warren" <war...@USVHremove.com> wrote in message
>> news:SBSdd.33253$QJ3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>> >
>> > "Andy Coggan" <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> > news:jWMdd.3168$KJ6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> >> "warren" <war...@usvhremove.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:201020041654360895%war...@usvhremove.com...
>> >>
>> >> > Niacin will dialate your blood vessels.
>> >>
>> >> The ones in your skin anyway...but at the same time, it will suppress
>> >> lipolysis, resulting in greater utiliation of muscle glycogen and
>> > premature
>> >> fatigue
>> >
>> > Are there any study abstracts available online that discuss this for
>> > athletes who are eating normally, i.e. not fasting before the test?
>>
>> I can't answer that offhand...but why do you think that nutritional state
>> would make any difference? Skipping breakfast would affect liver glycogen
>> stores, but not really influence muscle glycogen content.
>
> Blood sugar levels matter for an athlete during exercise. The only
> study abstract I could find that related to what you've said tested
> subjects who were not exercising
If they weren't exercising then the study does not really relate to what I
have said.
>, and who had fasted 14 hours before
> the testing began. Low blood sugar leads to certain things happening
> that aren't happening for an athlete who is exercising and not fasting.
The increased muscle glycogen utilization associated with suppression of
lipolysis via niacin ingestion is due to lack of FFA as a
fuel...hypoglycemia may or may not occur, but even if it does, it is a
result, not a cause.
Andy Coggan
Warren
I know. That's why I asked if you knew of other studies.
> >, and who had fasted 14 hours before
> > the testing began. Low blood sugar leads to certain things happening
> > that aren't happening for an athlete who is exercising and not fasting.
>
> The increased muscle glycogen utilization associated with suppression of
> lipolysis via niacin ingestion is due to lack of FFA as a
> fuel...hypoglycemia may or may not occur, but even if it does, it is a
> result, not a cause.
How much niacin ingestion causes this problem? How much more muscle glycogen
utilization will result?
-WG
Andy Coggan
The answers to all of your questions can be found here:
A search using "exercise" and "niacin" or "nicotinic acid" will turn up many
papers.
>
>> >, and who had fasted 14 hours before
>> > the testing began. Low blood sugar leads to certain things happening
>> > that aren't happening for an athlete who is exercising and not fasting.
>>
>> The increased muscle glycogen utilization associated with suppression of
>> lipolysis via niacin ingestion is due to lack of FFA as a
>> fuel...hypoglycemia may or may not occur, but even if it does, it is a
>> result, not a cause.
>
> How much niacin ingestion causes this problem?
Even as little as 20 mg seems to have an effect:
> How much more muscle glycogen
> utilization will result?
Enough to result in impaired performance.
Andy Coggan
warren
Coggan <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Warren" <war...@USVHremove.com> wrote in message
> news:7zced.33608$QJ3....@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
thlete who is exercising and not fasting.
> >>
> >> The increased muscle glycogen utilization associated with suppression of
> >> lipolysis via niacin ingestion is due to lack of FFA as a
> >> fuel...hypoglycemia may or may not occur, but even if it does, it is a
> >> result, not a cause.
> >
> > How much niacin ingestion causes this problem?
>
> Even as little as 20 mg seems to have an effect:
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abst
> ract&list_uids=11177199
From that link... my comments are in [ ]
"The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of altering
substrate availability on metabolism and performance during intense
cycling. Seven highly trained men ingested a random order of three
isoenergetic meals 90 min before cycling at 80% maximal oxygen uptake
(VO2max) for 20 min (about 310 W), followed by a 600 kJ time trial
lasting about 30 min.
[Meal #1]
Meals consisted of either 1.2 g saturated fat/kg body mass (BM) with
3500 U heparin intravenously (HIFAT) to elevate circulating plasma free
fatty acid (FA) concentration,
[For those that don't know, Heparin is a very strong blood thinner used
during surgery where blood clotting is a danger. The researchers even
said they gave it to increase FFA's.]
[Meal #2]
2.5 g carbohydrate/kg BM (CHO) to elevate plasma glucose and insulin
concentrations...
[Meal #3]
2.5 g carbohydrate +20 mg nicotinic acid/kg BM (NA) to suppress
lipolysis and reduce free FA concentration. [Nicotinic acid is not the
form of niacin in the supplements I mentioned previously-see below]
HIFAT [Meal #1] elevated free FA concentration (HIFAT 1.3 (sem 0.2),
[Meal #2] CHO 0.2 (sem 0.1),
[Meal #3] NA 0.1 (sem 0.1) mm;
[A tiny difference between Meal #2 and Meal #3, both of which would be
bad choices before exercise.]
... lowered the RER (HIFAT 0.94 (sem 0.01), CHO 0.97 (sem 0.01), NA
0.98 (sem 0.01);
[Same again]
P < 0.01) and increased the rate of fat oxidation (HIFAT 24 (sem 3),
CHO 12 (sem 2), NA 8 (sem 3) micromol/kg per min;
... P < 0.01) during the 20 min ride.
[And then the summary...]
Marked differences in fat availability and fuel utilisation, however,
had little effect on performance in the subsequent time trial (HIFAT
320 (sem 16), CHO 324 (sem 15), NA 315 (sem 13) W). We conclude: (1)
increased fat availability during intense cycling increases the rate of
fat oxidation; ...
[Anybody want to inject Heparin during their exercise?]
...but (2) the reduction in the rate of carbohydrate oxidation in the
presence of high circulating plasma free FA is unlikely to enhance
intense exercise performance lasting about 1 h; (3) substrate selection
during intense (about 80% VO2max) exercise is dominated by carbohydrate
oxidation.
>
> > How much more muscle glycogen
> > utilization will result?
>
> Enough to result in impaired performance.
Not according to the study you cited.
A brief summary of Niacin and its two forms is here...
http://www.truestarhealth.com/Notes/2926008.html
"The body uses vitamin B3 in the process of releasing energy from
carbohydrates. It is needed to form fat from carbohydrates and to
process alcohol. The niacin form of vitamin B3 also regulates
cholesterol [along with FFA's], though niacinamide does not.
Vitamin B3 comes in two basic forms‹niacin (also called nicotinic acid)
and niacinamide (also called nicotinamide)."
Niacinamide is the form of niacin in the "B-50" supplement from Trader
Joe's that I mentioned previously. It isn't as active or as "potent" as
nicotinic acid and doesn't cause blood vessel dialation or a change in
FFA's in the bloodstream.
-WG
Tom Kunich
>
> Niacinamide is the form of niacin in the "B-50" supplement from Trader
> Joe's that I mentioned previously. It isn't as active or as "potent" as
> nicotinic acid and doesn't cause blood vessel dialation or a change in
> FFA's in the bloodstream.
The ground floor on this was the discussion about whether or not vitamins
actually do anything along the lines of performance enhancement. I used to
think no, but using GNC vitamins seems to make a difference and I CAN feel a
difference both with longer term strength during a ride and faster recovery
afterwards.
As I stated before, maybe younger athletes don't reguire these vitamins but
now that I'm a certified old fart it makes a recognizable difference.
warren
Kunich <cycl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The ground floor on this was the discussion about whether or not vitamins
> actually do anything along the lines of performance enhancement. I used to
> think no, but using GNC vitamins seems to make a difference and I CAN feel a
> difference both with longer term strength during a ride and faster recovery
> afterwards.
During my cursory reviews of GNC vitamins I've found that I can always
find the individual vitamins I'd like to use at a much better price at
some place like Trader Joe's, Costco, etc. For example, 1 gram of good
C is less than 2 cents. A good B vitamin (50mg of each B) is about 6
cents. Since you mentioned being older, if you're interested in CoQ10
(100mcg) you'll pay about one-third the GNC price by getting it at
Costco or Trader Joe's.
But c'mon Tom, the real reason you shop at GNC is because you're
already hanging out at the mall with friends, right?
-WG
Dan Connelly
> In article <igCed.5568$%h1....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>, Tom
> Kunich <cycl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The ground floor on this was the discussion about whether or not vitamins
>>actually do anything along the lines of performance enhancement. I used to
>>think no, but using GNC vitamins seems to make a difference and I CAN feel a
>>difference both with longer term strength during a ride and faster recovery
>>afterwards.
>
>
> During my cursory reviews of GNC vitamins I've found that I can always
> find the individual vitamins I'd like to use at a much better price at
> some place like Trader Joe's, Costco, etc. For example, 1 gram of good
> C is less than 2 cents. A good B vitamin (50mg of each B) is about 6
> cents. Since you mentioned being older, if you're interested in CoQ10
> (100mcg) you'll pay about one-third the GNC price by getting it at
> Costco or Trader Joe's.
>
I take the Trader Joe Co-Q10 gel cap. It's the best price I've seen on CQ10 anywhere.
Of course, I've never done any chemical analysis to see if it's as claimed...
Dan
Badger South
What effect do/did you notice when you started taking them? Or are you
taking for a 'general anti-ox regime', along with quercetin, and C and
stuff? Not saying you -should- have an effect...maybe better recovery from
workouts? (hard to isolate / attribute - I know).
Just curious.
-B
Dan Connelly
>
>
> What effect do/did you notice when you started taking them? Or are you
> taking for a 'general anti-ox regime', along with quercetin, and C and
> stuff? Not saying you -should- have an effect...maybe better recovery from
> workouts? (hard to isolate / attribute - I know).
>
> Just curious.
>
> -B
>
>
I don't trust any claims about people's observations to the efficacy of
vitamins. Too much changes week to week, month to month, to be able
to observe subtle changes from vitamins. Add on the placebo
effect, and unless a supplement contains something gross like
a stimulant, you really need a blind trial.
Just look how many people swear by mass-produced homeopathic remedies,
with a concentration of active ingredients less than 1 atom per universe
(not an exaggeration for 50C mixtures).
That said, my original motivation for Q10 was to improve the health
of my gums, which I think it did (although maybe the Q10 reminded me
to brush better, there's a lot of factors). So I just continue to take it,
because the concensus seems to be that it's a good thing to do.
Dan
Tom Kunich
Well, the reason is that there are GNC's adjacent to the Safeway's and since
I just started using the multivitamins when I ran out of E-caps vitamins I'm
just experimenting. Actually I was surprised that they seem to work so well.
Tom Kunich
news:iYPed.18185$nj....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
> I don't trust any claims about people's observations to the efficacy of
> vitamins. Too much changes week to week, month to month, to be able
> to observe subtle changes from vitamins.
Unless you have a fairly dramatic change.
> Just look how many people swear by mass-produced homeopathic remedies,
> with a concentration of active ingredients less than 1 atom per universe
> (not an exaggeration for 50C mixtures).
Concerning homeopathics. There may very well be a lot of phoney claims in
that stuff but they do have a homeopathic preparation that you put a drop of
in water on the first day, two the second, three the third up to ten drops
and then continue with that until you've used up the bottle. It's supposed
to make you insensitive to poison oak and I don't give a damn what you're
thinking, if you're sensitive to poison oak thinking you aren't isn't going
to change a thing.
Every couple of years I start getting sensitive to poison oak again and take
this stuff and by the end of the bottle I don't get poison oak reactions for
another couple of years.
> That said, my original motivation for Q10 was to improve the health
> of my gums, which I think it did (although maybe the Q10 reminded me
> to brush better, there's a lot of factors). So I just continue to take
> it,
> because the concensus seems to be that it's a good thing to do.
OK, what the hell is Co-Q? Q10?
Steve
3%Zed.6407$KJ6....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net, "Tom Kunich"
<cycl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
http://www.rexdonald.com/diet-programs/themiracleantioxidant.htm
Callistus Valerius
> > Bobby Julich's dad. I always thought the call was really strange and to
> > this day don't know if it was drugs
> I doubt that. From people who have worked with Bobby, he is not a guy who
> would even use completely legal supplements.
>
LOL ;-)))))
remove the polite word to reply
as well.
This year I'm trying to lose the lard in the fall, before any real
training, and am doing a very lo carb diet, basically no
sweets/starches at all except sucralose non-nutritive sweetener.
I'm sorry to gross out the more fastidious among you, but I have
noticed if I am on a very lo carb diet,
and I go three or four days without flossing, my gums do not seem to
decline nearly as badly as when I am consuming sweets and carbs. This
is a fairly obvious
mechanism; there is far less for oral bacteria to feed on.
(My dentist, former prof of dentistry at UC at San Francisco agreed)
To contrast- when I go on some insane misadventure ( FOR A LARD
MUFFIN LIKE ME) like the DeaTH Ride and guzzle sugar all day, my mouth
feels like it is just rotting the next couple days.