Thomas J. Kunich
Deeznuts
how long I have to wait until he kicks the can or gets put into a home
or something and isn't able to post inane crap anymore. Kunich has
run off all of the quality posters like Ronde Champ and Capt. Insano.
Deeznuts
RK
I've gleaned from his posts that he's about 57, plus or minus a year
or two.
From what he's revealed in his public life about his habits
(vegetarian, exercises, non-smoker, sufvived divorce...) I was able to
enter enough data into one of those insurance company interactive
calculators. Average life expectancy for such a male came out at 94
years.
Of course there was also the theory posted some years ago that TK is
not a man at all, but an Artificial Intelligence project gone amok, a
self-replicating program that scans these newsgroups and generates
postings from a database it is continually building....
RK
Either way you have to wait a looooong time, he'll probably outlast everyone.
Tom Kunich
news:993db82c.02020...@posting.google.com...
OK RK, you're in the database.
Rick Manton
> deeznu...@hotmail.com (Deeznuts) wrote
>
> year or two. From what he's revealed in his public life about his
> habits (vegetarian, exercises, non-smoker, sufvived divorce...) I
> was able to enter enough data into one of those insurance company
> interactive calculators. Average life expectancy for such a male
> came out at 94 years.
Do those calculators have a correction for closeted gays?
Henry Chang
I could see some parallels between Kunich and that Marine dude in
"American Beauty".
Henry
Brian Lafferty
here at rbr. He's definitly better than some. How about a little less
backbiting in 2002?
As to racing, anyone making plans for the 2003 Worlds in Canada (note to
provincial States dwellers, that's another country)?
Brian Lafferty
--
Facism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of
state and corporate power. -- Benito Mussolini
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"Rick Manton" <RM...@noosspamblock.com> wrote in message
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Steven L. Sheffield
"Brian Lafferty" <jav...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Frankly, I don't consider Tom to be any better or worse than most others
> here at rbr. He's definitly better than some.
Agreed. I may disagree with Tom 90% of the time ... but with one
exception, in my opinion, his posts are well thought out.
The only topic where he seems to let emotion rather than logic control
is homosexuality ... and that's off-topic for this forum.
--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
veloworks at mac dot com
aitch tee tea pea colon four word slash forward slash double ewe double you double yew dot veloworks dot com
Rick Manton
> I may disagree with Tom 90% of the time ... but with one
> exception, in my opinion, his posts are well thought out.
Does that include confusing Indonesia with Malaysia? Maybe it was
well thought out. Well thought out but wrong, very wrong, like most
of his posts.
RM
Brian Lafferty
Brian
--
Facism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of
state and corporate power. -- Benito Mussolini
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"Rick Manton" <RM...@noosspamblock.com> wrote in message
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brian trdina
"Brian Lafferty" <jav...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> As to racing, anyone making plans for the 2003 Worlds in Canada (note to
> provincial States dwellers, that's another country)?
Thank God, too. Canadians are the lowest race of people on the earth. Much
worse than the Irish...
Actually, I kind of think of Canadians like domesticated animals. At one
time in the far past they were capable of independently carving out their
own niche in the world. However, through years and generations of
dependence, the only way they can now survive by siphoning resources from
their more fit masters.
Jason Waddell
about their army,economy,health care,schools,etc...
Sometimes I wish we would just invade them and use up all their natural
resources.
I am just kidding, so don't go and throw maple leaves at me.
jason
Carl Sundquist
news:stevens-076C67...@nnrp01.earthlink.net...
>
> The only topic where he seems to let emotion rather than logic control
> is homosexuality ... and that's off-topic for this forum.
>
What about helmets?
Brian Lafferty
will be vacationing in areas (like Burlington, VT) that get CBC television
so as to watch the Olympics as opposed to what will be on NBC. Civilization
exists---North of the border.
Brian Lafferty
--
Facism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of
state and corporate power. -- Benito Mussolini
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"brian trdina" <trd...@dejazzd.com> wrote in message
news:yoX68.21806$F01.1...@nnrp1.ptd.net...
Eric Harvey
We do fine living off our own resources, and we'd even like to share
some of them (such as wood exports), but the USA has to put ridiculous
tariffs on our exports to protect its own industries.
Eric.
Eric Harvey
sure do sports well. I won't even consider turning on NBC because the
US coverage focuses more on stupid human-interest stories. And, during
the Sydney games, I loved how NBC would broadcast something "live" while
I had already seen it hours earlier on the CBC.
Go CANADA! (I'm feeling very patriotic today)
Eric.
brian trdina
"Eric Harvey" <eric...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:3C5C96F1...@shaw.ca...
> Kiss my hairy Canadian ass Turdina.
>
> We do fine living off our own resources, and we'd even like to share
> some of them (such as wood exports), but the USA has to put ridiculous
> tariffs on our exports to protect its own industries.
>
> Eric.
We give you Intel, Merck, and USX, you give us wood.
Thanks for proving my point.
Tim Mullin
> We give you Intel, Merck, and USX, you give us wood.
First you say you don't like Canadians, now you say they give you wood. It
sounds like you like them alot!
RK
Closeted gays live longer than the uncloseted ones. He'll still
outlast most of you.
Neacalban1
>outlast most of you.
>
Sometimes, and then again.....sometimes its the closet-cases who go in for
anonymous sex in risky places......
Henry Chang
>"Eric Harvey" <eric...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>news:3C5C96F1...@shaw.ca...
>> Kiss my hairy Canadian ass Turdina.
>>
>> We do fine living off our own resources, and we'd even like to share
>> some of them (such as wood exports), but the USA has to put ridiculous
>> tariffs on our exports to protect its own industries.
The Canadians export something besides bike racers and wood?
Henry
Tom Kunich
> Thanks for proving my point about provincialism. :) Just remember,
people
> will be vacationing in areas (like Burlington, VT) that get CBC television
> so as to watch the Olympics as opposed to what will be on NBC.
Civilization
> exists---North of the border.
If that were really true, OLN Canada would show bicycle racing.
Fabrizio Mazzoleni
"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:qt478.4455$3E5.3...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> If that were really true, OLN Canada would show bicycle racing.
You need cable to get OLN, real cyclists up here
use rabbit ears.
Brian Lafferty
America, it would no doubt be highly covered by CBC.
Brian Lafferty
--
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state and corporate power. -- Benito Mussolini
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"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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brian trdina
"Henry Chang" <henri...@takethisout.home.com> wrote in message
>
> The Canadians export something besides bike racers and wood?
>
Yeah, comics that aren't funny.
Brian Lafferty
Brian Lafferty
--
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state and corporate power. -- Benito Mussolini
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"brian trdina" <trd...@dejazzd.com> wrote in message
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Clovis Lark
> In article <p_R68.1685$3E5.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> "Brian Lafferty" <jav...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Frankly, I don't consider Tom to be any better or worse than most others
>> here at rbr. He's definitly better than some.
> Agreed. I may disagree with Tom 90% of the time ... but with one
> exception, in my opinion, his posts are well thought out.
> The only topic where he seems to let emotion rather than logic control
> is homosexuality ... and that's off-topic for this forum.
You forgot: A woman's right to choose.
Brian Lafferty
--
"Clovis Lark" <cl...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote in message
news:a3ji1a$hrf$9...@flotsam.uits.indiana.edu...
> Steven L. Sheffield <ste...@veloworks.com> wrote:
> > In article <p_R68.1685$3E5.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> > "Brian Lafferty" <jav...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >> Frankly, I don't consider Tom to be any better or worse than most
others
> >> here at rbr. He's definitly better than some.
>
>
> > Agreed. I may disagree with Tom 90% of the time ... but with one
> > exception, in my opinion, his posts are well thought out.
>
> > The only topic where he seems to let emotion rather than logic control
> > is homosexuality ... and that's off-topic for this forum.
>
> You forgot: A woman's right to choose.
>
> > --
>
> > Steven L. Sheffield
Choose Tom? Oh, THAT choice!
Brian
RK
>
> We do fine living off our own resources, and we'd even like to share
> some of them (such as wood exports), but the USA has to put ridiculous
> tariffs on our exports to protect its own industries.
>
> Eric.
>
This is bizarre. Much of Maine's wood is exported to Canada, New
Brunswick cut down allit's forest years ago.
Rick Manton
news:993db82c.02020...@posting.google.com:
How do you know this? Unless, of course...
Brian Lafferty
--
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"Rick Manton" <RM...@noosspamblock.com> wrote in message
news:Xns91AB6C7...@212.198.2.12...
Now that's funny!
Brian Lafferty
Kyle Legate
> The Canadians export something besides bike racers and wood?
>
Beer.
Steel.
Nickel.
Fur.
Uranium.
Water.
Natural gas.
Music.
Maple syrup.
Pot.
... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
leg...@mcmaster.ca Kyle Legate leg...@hotmail.com
Tower of Tongues:Thursday PM:10:30-11:30 EDT:http://cfmu.mcmaster.ca
moon musick:ritual:IDM:experimental(electronica):minimalism:glitch
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...
gord woolley
Hockey players
Henry Chang
<leg...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
>On Sun, 3 Feb 2002, Henry Chang wrote:
>
>> The Canadians export something besides bike racers and wood?
>>
>Beer.
>Steel.
>Nickel.
>Fur.
>Uranium.
>Water.
>Natural gas.
>Music.
>Maple syrup.
>Pot.
That would explain Canada's relative economic difficulties.
Natural resource exploitation along with an industrial age product
(steel). There's a lot of competition for those products from many
countries worldwide.
There's no service exports, tech or biotech from Canada?
Henry
N. Peter Armitage
Henry Chang wrote:
Nortel and 'Laugh In'. I think that's it.
-P
Gregory White
>
> Frankly, I don't consider Tom to be any better or worse than most others
> backbiting in 2002?
>
Brian,
If you keep up this liberal "I'm okay, you're okay" crap, Tom will drop
the freaking maul on you. How many times does he have to say it: lefty
liberals are no good for nothing.
gw
Henry Chang
wrote:
They're good for at least one thing: trolling Kunich so starts ranting
and makes himself look bad.
Henry
Kyle Legate
> There's no service exports, tech or biotech from Canada?
>
Certainly, we designed the Canadarm after all. Montreal and the golden
horseshoe (the area around Lake Ontario from Toronto to Niagara) are
biotech goldmines as well.
Clovis Lark
Henry Chang
<leg...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> wrote:
>On Mon, 4 Feb 2002, Henry Chang wrote:
>
>> There's no service exports, tech or biotech from Canada?
>>
>Certainly, we designed the Canadarm after all. Montreal and the golden
>horseshoe (the area around Lake Ontario from Toronto to Niagara) are
>biotech goldmines as well.
Anything else, or is that it?
Henry
brian trdina
"Kyle Legate" <leg...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> wrote in message
> Certainly, we designed the Canadarm after all. Montreal and the golden
> horseshoe (the area around Lake Ontario from Toronto to Niagara) are
> biotech goldmines as well.
Are any of those Biotech companies Canadian and, if so, do they actually
have any approved products?
RK
> rj...@my-deja.com (RK) wrote in
> >>
> >> Do those calculators have a correction for closeted gays?
> >
> > Closeted gays live longer than the uncloseted ones.
>
> How do you know this? Unless, of course...
There is an expression "he's just another an old closet queen"
(TKunich?) but I've never heard of an old flaming faggot.
Kyle Legate
Yes, and yes.
Kyle Legate
What the fuck do I look like, a business directory? If you were really
interested you could just look it up.
SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT!@#1342
brian trdina
> > have any approved products?
> >
> Yes, and yes.
>
Okay: Who's the canadian biotech and what are their approved products?
You know, once I took a shit in the woods and wiped my ass with a maple
leaf. Does that count as a Canadian export?
Kyle Legate
> "Kyle Legate" <leg...@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca> wrote in message
> > >
> > > Are any of those Biotech companies Canadian and, if so, do they actually
> > > have any approved products?
> > >
> > Yes, and yes.
> >
> Okay: Who's the canadian biotech and what are their approved products?
>
Like I told Henry, I'm not a fucking business directory. Look it up.
> You know, once I took a shit in the woods and wiped my ass with a maple
> leaf. Does that count as a Canadian export?
>
Were they our woods?
Dominic Richens
> That would explain Canada's relative economic difficulties.
Canada's having economic difficulties?
> Natural resource exploitation along with an industrial age product
> (steel). There's a lot of competition for those products from many
> countries worldwide.
>
> There's no service exports, tech or biotech from Canada?
Some 30-40% of the phone switches and 80% of the optical transport gear in
the US was designed in Canada.
Henry Chang
<dominic...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>"Henry Chang" <henri...@takethisout.home.com> wrote :
>> That would explain Canada's relative economic difficulties.
>
>Canada's having economic difficulties?
That's what my Canadian friends tell me. I think that description is
in relative terms.
The Canadian dollar has been in a long, steady decline vs. the
American dollar. That's usually a sign that an economy's GDP is not
keeping up proportionally.
Henry
Doznutz
> Does anyone know how old this motherfucker is? I just want to know
> how long I have to wait until he kicks the can or gets put into a home
> or something and isn't able to post inane crap anymore. Kunich has
> run off all of the quality posters like Ronde Champ and Capt. Insano.
>
> Deeznuts
No one knows anything about him other than the best part of you dribbled
down his leg.
Doznutz
Rightful Hair of TK
Dominic Richens
>
> The Canadian dollar has been in a long, steady decline vs. the
> American dollar. That's usually a sign that an economy's GDP is not
> keeping up proportionally.
But "not keeping up" does not mean "economic difficulties", just means we
arn't all as stinking rich as you Americans
Brian Lafferty
Brian Lafferty
--
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"Dominic Richens" <dominic...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:a4663a$lis$1...@news.storm.ca...
Henry Chang
The ones who tell me the Canadian economy sucks are my Canadian
friends.
Don't take it personally.
Henry
Joe CIpale
> Frankly, I don't consider Tom to be any better or worse than most others
> here at rbr. He's definitly better than some. How about a little less
> backbiting in 2002?
>
> As to racing, anyone making plans for the 2003 Worlds in Canada (note to
> provincial States dwellers, that's another country)?
>
> Brian Lafferty
>
> --
> Facism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger
> of state and corporate power. -- Benito Mussolini
>
> To Reply To This Message Remove the Anti-spam Word "coppi" In The Return
> Address.
> This Outgoing Message Has Been Scanned By Norton Anti-Virus 2002
> "Rick Manton" <RM...@noosspamblock.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns91A95B8...@212.198.2.12...
>> rj...@my-deja.com (RK) wrote
>> > deeznu...@hotmail.com (Deeznuts) wrote
>> >> Does anyone know how old this motherfucker is?
>> >
>> > I've gleaned from his posts that he's about 57, plus or minus a
>> > year or two. From what he's revealed in his public life about his
>> > habits (vegetarian, exercises, non-smoker, sufvived divorce...) I
>> > was able to enter enough data into one of those insurance company
>> > interactive calculators. Average life expectancy for such a male
>> > came out at 94 years.
>>
>> Do those calculators have a correction for closeted gays?
>>
Well... I have my hotel reservations being booked... Planning to fly into
Detroit and drive to Hamilton (taking in a baseball game as well). Of
course I am bringing my god-damn bike!
Joe Cipale
Tom Kunich
Actually it means that your Government is spending more than you people are
working to earn. Either work harder (granted that would be difficult since
you guys all seem pretty industrious) or spend less.
Tom Kunich
socialized medicine is better than any other country that doesn't....
"Brian Lafferty" <jav...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:zRx98.32094$3E5.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Henry Chang
wrote:
It's more complicated than that.
There are states in the US which have been doing worse than Canada.
Henry
Tom Kunich
news:3c674eb5....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Unfortunately, Henry, it ain't much more complicated than that. Canadians
are the biggest foreign investors in the USA because their earnings aren't
taxed into oblivion here (yet). If you want to live in a socialist paradise,
you'd better be damned willing to chop your own wood and eat whatever you
grow for yourself.
Even those square-head countries have managed to learn somewhat and have
backed off on the crippling taxes.
Question: who pays the income tax on business in the USA?
Dominic Richens
>"Dominic Richens" <dominic...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>news:a4663a$lis$1...@news.storm.ca...
>> "Henry Chang" <henri...@takethisout.home.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > The Canadian dollar has been in a long, steady decline vs. the
>> > American dollar. That's usually a sign that an economy's GDP is not
>> > keeping up proportionally.
>>
>> But "not keeping up" does not mean "economic difficulties", just means we
>> arn't all as stinking rich as you Americans
>
>Actually it means that your Government is spending more than you people are
>working to earn. Either work harder (granted that would be difficult since
>you guys all seem pretty industrious) or spend less.
Don't forget that the average Canadian is at a climatological disadvantage
to his average American neighbour. 6 months our of the year we have to sink
~30$US/head/month into heating our homes. Actually it is more if you
consider that our employers have to do the same.
Henry Chang
wrote:
>"Henry Chang" <henri...@takethisout.home.com> wrote in message
>>
>> It's more complicated than that.
>>
>> There are states in the US which have been doing worse than Canada.
>
>Unfortunately, Henry, it ain't much more complicated than that. Canadians
>are the biggest foreign investors in the USA because their earnings aren't
>taxed into oblivion here (yet). If you want to live in a socialist paradise,
>you'd better be damned willing to chop your own wood and eat whatever you
>grow for yourself.
It *is* more complicated than that. Taxes are but a part of the
equation.
I grew up in the state of Wyoming. It doesn't have income tax, doesn't
have a gas tax, no energy tax, the sales taxes are very low (4%?),
workman's comp is nonexistent, there's barely a state welfare system,
etc. etc.
Wyoming has languished economically because its economy relies on
natural resource exploitation.
Compare that to here in California where there is an income tax, gas
tax, high sales tax rates, OSHA is in everyone's business, big
workman's comp taxes, etc. etc. It's one of the most taxed and
regulated states in the country. California has done very well in
comparison to Wyoming, not because of the tax structure, but because
of its diverse economy, it's supply of highly educated labor (from
it's fine public university system), the fact that many, if not most
of the HB1 visa immigrants (the educated, skilled ones) end up here,
the growth of the tech industry, the biotech industry, the
entertainment industry, etc. etc.
Kunich, if you're simple-headed enough to think it's only about tax
rates, you've been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh. There are
places in the world where there are no taxes at all (some anarchists
African states) and how are their economies doing?
Finally, I'm a fiscal conservative, I don't like high tax rates or
large government bureaucracies. But I'm not an empty-headed
'Dittohead'. There's more to an economy's prospects for success than
tax rates.
Henry
Gregory White
Try "not keeping up" for a sustained period, and see where it gets you.
gw
Gregory White
>
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 06:46:05 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"Henry Chang" <henri...@takethisout.home.com> wrote in message
>
> >>
> >> It's more complicated than that.
> >>
> >> There are states in the US which have been doing worse than Canada.
> >
> >Unfortunately, Henry, it ain't much more complicated than that. Canadians
> >are the biggest foreign investors in the USA because their earnings aren't
> >taxed into oblivion here (yet). If you want to live in a socialist paradise,
> >you'd better be damned willing to chop your own wood and eat whatever you
> >grow for yourself.
>
> It *is* more complicated than that. Taxes are but a part of the
> equation.
Foreign investors love the US because it is a lawful and ordered society
with property rights, and it has comparatively lower taxes and, lower
labor controls (than more socialistic Euro States), and a fairly well
educated society, and fairly lax worker visa rules if the "local" labor
pool itself is inadaquate. Their investments risks are fairly clearly
defined and they like that. (Whoops -- what about Enron, GAAP, and
better SEC rules?) No one wants to invest in a politically unstable
region -- so those are the places that really languish economically,
places where misdirected hatred is easily fomented upon an uneducated
and unsophisticated society. But I think we can do even better. (Now
that would really piss off even more Middle Eastern barbarians wouldn't
it? They'd hate to see us get even stronger. We might get accused of
doping our economy. ;-) )
> I grew up in the state of Wyoming. It doesn't have income tax, doesn't
> have a gas tax, no energy tax, the sales taxes are very low (4%?),
> workman's comp is nonexistent, there's barely a state welfare system,
> etc. etc.
Nuthin wrong there....
> Wyoming has languished economically because its economy relies on
> natural resource exploitation.
The fact that we don't live in caves should make you realize that
wealth, and the technology used to create wealth, is solely derived from
human intelligence and "natural resource exploitation." (And "human
intelligence" is a input that could go without saying.) There just
ain't nothing else to it. "Natural resource exploitation" has exactly
the opposite effect you would seem to imply. How are you rating
"languished economically?" How do California schools rate on the
national scale (no so good last I heard)?
> Compare that to here in California where there is an income tax, gas
> tax, high sales tax rates, OSHA is in everyone's business, big
> workman's comp taxes, etc. etc. It's one of the most taxed and
> regulated states in the country. California has done very well in
> comparison to Wyoming, not because of the tax structure, but because
> of its diverse economy, it's supply of highly educated labor (from
> it's fine public university system), the fact that many, if not most
> of the HB1 visa immigrants (the educated, skilled ones) end up here,
> the growth of the tech industry, the biotech industry, the
> entertainment industry, etc. etc.
More properly, if you want to say "California has done very well," then
that is in _spite_ of high taxes. And you left out the most important
of them all, the sun tax (how could you?). The high number H1B visa
immigrants surely doesn't lend credit to the States educational system
(with such a huge internal population pool, why do skilled workers need
to be imported?). How many other skilled workers are imported from
other states educational systems? (Still, I think the available low
cost college education in CA, paid for by taxes, is a rather good thing
for the state -- but I don't really know, that's just my current
opinion.)
Regarding the issue of "where skilled workers migrate to," I don't see
where we've/you've developed it past a chicken and egg question.
> Kunich, if you're simple-headed enough to think it's only about tax
> rates, you've been listening to too much Rush Limbaugh. There are
> places in the world where there are no taxes at all (some anarchists
> African states) and how are their economies doing?
Every book I read on economics tells me that intelligent tax structures,
(along with laws, property rights, and enforcement) are elemental to a
healthy economy -- I don't think I've heard Tom come anywhere close to
suggesting a "no tax" system. I know I'm not contented with the current
"justice" of the tax stucture, both federally and in CA. That doesn't
mean I agree with Tom on any specifics (I don't his specifics). I
generally think that taxes can be lowered. I think that more things
should be privitized and/or deregulated. The government is notoriously
inefficient in providing many services because it has no incentive to be
otherwise (actually, the incentives are the opposite: be inefficient).
Of course this is all ECON101 basics. Unlike a business who is more
inefficient than it's competitors (and goes broke and out of business
because of it -- unless you're an airline), the government doesn't go
broke; it just raises taxes.
> Finally, I'm a fiscal conservative, I don't like high tax rates or
> large government bureaucracies. But I'm not an empty-headed
> 'Dittohead'. There's more to an economy's prospects for success than
> tax rates.
I don't know any thing about brain surgery, so I don't espouse my
"opinions" about it. Most people either slept through their ECON
classes or never took one to begin with. But unlike topics such as
brain surgery, that doesn't stop folks from espousing, or buying into,
lame and flatly stupid ideas about economic policy. I'm trying to learn
Economics -- either I'm stupid, or it is not an easy topic. I don't
know much, but at least I know enough to recognize when someone is just
flapping their gums. It's eye opening to see how often it happens, and
at the rank of officials speaking it.
If we want to improve our society (and speaking of our schools), then
Economics should be a requisite _High School_ course. Now that's *my*
lame idea. (It's lame if for no reason other than: who's going to teach
it?)
Before we worry too much about languishing Wyoming or the languishing US
poor, maybe we should see what a renown economist has to say about the
ratrace: http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/ratrace.html
And by the way, Krugman is a self-avowed _liberal_.
gw
"The ideas of economists and political philosophers, both
when they are right and when they are wrong, are more
powerful than is commonly understood. Indeed, the
world is ruled by little else. Practical men, who believe
themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual
influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct
economist. Madmen in authority, who hear voices in the
air, are distilling their frenzy from some academic
scribbler of a few years back... soon or late, it is ideas,
not vested interests, which are dangerous for good or
evil."
--JOHN MAYNARD KEYNES
The General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money
Tom Kunich
news:3C6832ED...@ti.com...
>
> Before we worry too much about languishing Wyoming or the languishing US
> poor, maybe we should see what a renown economist has to say about the
> ratrace: http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/ratrace.html
> And by the way, Krugman is a self-avowed _liberal_.
I read this an simply wonder what is going through his head. I don't know
about the rest of you guys, but I came from a fairly badly off family and no
one is more surprised at their success than I am. I have classmates and old
friends who have done better but I can't remember when I EVER wanted
something that someone else had just because they had it.
Except for a Colnago Master and now I have one of those too.
Henry Chang
wrote:
>Henry Chang wrote:
>
>> Wyoming has languished economically because its economy relies on
>> natural resource exploitation.
>
>The fact that we don't live in caves should make you realize that
>wealth, and the technology used to create wealth, is solely derived from
>human intelligence and "natural resource exploitation." (And "human
>intelligence" is a input that could go without saying.) There just
>ain't nothing else to it. "Natural resource exploitation" has exactly
>the opposite effect you would seem to imply.
Let me expound on that.
There are 3 main stages of economic development (which can be broken
down into many, many more, but not here in the interests of brevity).
The first is an agarian economy (something that a country like
Afghanistan would like to acheive), the second is an industrial
economy (typified by emerging Asian economies) and finally there is
the information (tertiary) economy (prime example is the US with its
tech sector).
Japan's economy has been sucking because they're stuck in Industrial
Mode and its bureaucracy is too rigid to compete in the Tertiary
economy. The US has been doing phenomenal for the last 10 years
because it has been able to dominate in the tech arena. Economies that
rely on Natural Resource Exploitation as the primary means of economic
activity are extremely limited in their growth options. There's too
much competition. Look at OPEC. They have a cartel that includes the
majority of the world oil production and there's only so much OPEC
countries can do to increase their GDP if they rely solely on oil
exports. If they increase production too much, the price plunges and
they actually make less.
Wyoming is in that boat because they rely on ranching, natural gas
mining and coal mining. It has enough coal reserves to power the US
for 200 years, but they can't be exploited at an increasing rate
because the demand for the stuff is relatively static (it's a dirty
way to produce electricity).
>How are you rating "languished economically?"
Property values in most of that state have risen only marginally in
the last 20 years. All of my high school buddies who went to U of W
had to leave after the graduated because there were no engineering or
finance jobs for them there. A few of them even wanted to stay.
Is that good? I don't think so.
> How do California schools rate on the national scale (no so good last I heard)?
I said the "California public university system" not the secondary
school system. Huge difference between the two. Silicon Valley is
powered by UC Berkeley and Stanford (not public but whatever, it's a
large piece of the equation).
>The high number H1B visa
>immigrants surely doesn't lend credit to the States educational system
>(with such a huge internal population pool, why do skilled workers need
>to be imported?).
I don't think it's the fault of the schools. They're putting out 30%
less engineers than in 1990. It's very complicated, has a lot to do
with what students want to do. And for whatever reason, they don't
want to be engineers.
The H1B thing is the greatest thing there is from a social engineering
standpoint. Countries like India and China feed those people from
birth, educate them, weed them out and some of their best, brightest,
and most amibitious who they've dumped all of those precious resources
into, come to the United States to benefit the US economy.
A sports equivalent would be if the Dodgers put a lot of $$$ into
their minor league farm system and, once they were ready for prime
time, sent the best players to play for the Yankees.
>(Still, I think the available low
>cost college education in CA, paid for by taxes, is a rather good thing
>for the state -- but I don't really know, that's just my current
>opinion.)
Absolutely - it's good - if you have an ignorant work force you end up
with the economy of Mississipi, the worst in the nation.
>Before we worry too much about languishing Wyoming or the languishing US
>poor, maybe we should see what a renown economist has to say about the
>ratrace: http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/ratrace.html
>And by the way, Krugman is a self-avowed _liberal_.
I don't buy that theory because polls have shown that happiness is not
related to socioeconomic status.
>That doesn't mean I agree with Tom on any specifics
On how tax rates affect an economy (US vs Canada) Kunich wrote:
"Unfortunately, Henry, it ain't much more complicated than that"
You really agree with Kunich that tax rates are the sole determining
factor in economic performance? Maybe you should invest all your hard
earned $$$ into Montana where not only is there no income tax, there
also isn't a sales tax.
You, me and Kunich should take this to email so the rest of the group
doesn't get spammed with this off-topic stuff.
Henry
off-topic
Gregory White
I'm Old!!!!!!!!!
I am not losing weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am not getting into EXCELLENT SHAPE!!!!
You COLLEGE guys and your complicated issues!!!!!!!!!!!!................
I have to ----------------->work<-------------------- and dont have
-------------->time<----------------- to argue
all day long....................
I'm just sittting at my computer allday and reading this useless
NEWSGROUP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I could do that and train, then I wouldnt be FAT!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sick of Hank Chang and all that crap he wrote about
ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I need to SH!T OR GET OFF THE POT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I gotta GEDAUDAHEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cant sit here and volly repartees with ALL YOU IDIOTS ALL
DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to ----------------->work<--------------------!!!!!!
I'm Fat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Henry Chang wrote:
> .....
> I don't buy that theory because polls have shown that happiness is not
> related to socioeconomic status.
You do win: It's based on quantity of sex and ride time.
I'm Fat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am not losing weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cant sit here and volly repartees with ALL YOU IDIOTS ALL
DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> You really agree with Kunich that tax rates are the sole determining
> factor in economic performance?
I was just about to say: "Nice Pull HANK!" But then you crashed into
the culvert by saying !THAT CRAP ABOUT ME! AND the "sole determining
factor in economic performance" -- why do you always seem to do that?
> You, me and Kunich should take this to email so the rest of the group
> doesn't get spammed with this off-topic stuff.
I am not getting into EXCELLENT SHAPE!!!!!!!!!!....
I'm Fat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.........
I'm Old!!!!!!!!!........
I am not losing weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I --->WORK<--- FOR A LIVING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I Don't ha ve time to listen to YOUR PATHETIC IDEAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I gotta GEDAUDAHEER AND GET INTO EXCELLENT SHAPE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SH!T OR GET OFF THE POT!
Gregory White
>
> "Gregory White" <gwh...@ti.com> wrote in message
> news:3C6832ED...@ti.com...
> >
> > Before we worry too much about languishing Wyoming or the languishing US
> > poor, maybe we should see what a renown economist has to say about the
> > ratrace: http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/ratrace.html
> > And by the way, Krugman is a self-avowed _liberal_.
>
> I read this an simply wonder what is going through his head. I don't know
> about the rest of you guys, but I came from a fairly badly off family and no
You shouldn't be suprised -- like the article said, most Americans are
doing better now than they did 50 years ago. Everybody is better off,
even if they don't _feel_ like they are doing better (that's the
comparative nature of the ratrace). Maybe I wasn't clear about why I
linked ratrace.html. My point with the article was quite minor: we're
all doing better whether we live in WY or CA, or if we are in the bottom
or top quintiles; from what I see so far, it is just a little
questionable to say Wyoming is "not doing well." That's the only reason
I linked the ratrace article.
gw
Tom Kunich
> My point with the article was quite minor: we're
> all doing better whether we live in WY or CA, or if we are in the bottom
> or top quintiles; from what I see so far, it is just a little
> questionable to say Wyoming is "not doing well." That's the only reason
> I linked the ratrace article.
My point is that all I've ever been worried about is having enough to eat
and a place to stay and cloths to wear that aren't too shabby. Knocked me
over with a feather to be in the upper 30% of wage earners in the entire
world. I guess it pays to have a knack with a particular type of
engineering. And to have scads of luck. I dropped out of high school only to
later join the Air Force. I requested training as a reciprocating engine
mechanic. Instead they made me an electronics technician and that led to
engineering.Hell, when I was being picked up by cops in the late 50's I'd
never have guessed that I would be a fat cat. Of course, easy come, easy go
and it could mostly split tomorrow in some stupid accident.
Tom Kunich
>
> Let me expound on that.
>
> There are 3 main stages of economic development (which can be broken
> down into many, many more, but not here in the interests of brevity).
> The first is an agarian economy (something that a country like
> Afghanistan would like to acheive), the second is an industrial
> economy (typified by emerging Asian economies) and finally there is
> the information (tertiary) economy (prime example is the US with its
> tech sector).
>
> Japan's economy has been sucking because they're stuck in Industrial
> Mode and its bureaucracy is too rigid to compete in the Tertiary
> economy. The US has been doing phenomenal for the last 10 years
> because it has been able to dominate in the tech arena. Economies that
> rely on Natural Resource Exploitation as the primary means of economic
> activity are extremely limited in their growth options.
Henry, what has this to do with Canadian taxes? Geez, give me a break will
you? Do you think that no one here but you knows butthead economics? That
still doesn't address the fact that the Canadian Government spends more on
its citizens than it taxes from them even with the high Canadian taxes. They
adjust the difference by adding a subrosa tax in the form of currency
deflation.
> Wyoming is in that boat because they rely on ranching, natural gas
> mining and coal mining. It has enough coal reserves to power the US
> for 200 years, but they can't be exploited at an increasing rate
> because the demand for the stuff is relatively static (it's a dirty
> way to produce electricity).
So what happens in 80 years when oil reserves are finally depleated?
Henry Chang
wrote:
>"Henry Chang" <henri...@takethisout.home.com> wrote in message
>news:3c68bb09....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
>>
>> Let me expound on that.
>>
>> There are 3 main stages of economic development (which can be broken
>> down into many, many more, but not here in the interests of brevity).
>> The first is an agarian economy (something that a country like
>> Afghanistan would like to acheive), the second is an industrial
>> economy (typified by emerging Asian economies) and finally there is
>> the information (tertiary) economy (prime example is the US with its
>> tech sector).
>>
>> Japan's economy has been sucking because they're stuck in Industrial
>> Mode and its bureaucracy is too rigid to compete in the Tertiary
>> economy. The US has been doing phenomenal for the last 10 years
>> because it has been able to dominate in the tech arena. Economies that
>> rely on Natural Resource Exploitation as the primary means of economic
>> activity are extremely limited in their growth options.
>
>Henry, what has this to do with Canadian taxes? Geez, give me a break will
>you? Do you think that no one here but you knows butthead economics?
I don't think you have a great handle on "butthead economics" since
you wrote:
"Unfortunately, Henry, it ain't much more complicated than that."
regarding the effect of Canada's tax system upon its relatively poor
economic performance.
My take on it is that a large part of Canada's economy relies on
Natural Resource Exploitation and economies that do that have very
little growth. I used Wyoming vs. California as an example of this.
The example refutes your "low taxes are everything" position because
Wyoming has no state income tax.
>> Wyoming is in that boat because they rely on ranching, natural gas
>> mining and coal mining. It has enough coal reserves to power the US
>> for 200 years, but they can't be exploited at an increasing rate
>> because the demand for the stuff is relatively static (it's a dirty
>> way to produce electricity).
>
>So what happens in 80 years when oil reserves are finally depleated?
It's mostly coal reserves.
If power companies ever quit using coal because a better, cleaner
method of producing power comes along (fusion? 30 years from now?),
Wyoming will have significant economic contraction unless they
diversify.
Henry
Tom Kunich
> >
> >So what happens in 80 years when oil reserves are finally depleated?
>
> It's mostly coal reserves.
>
> If power companies ever quit using coal because a better, cleaner
> method of producing power comes along (fusion? 30 years from now?),
> Wyoming will have significant economic contraction unless they
> diversify.
Henry, try thinking a little. 30 years ago they told us that they'd have
fusion in 10 years. 10 years later they told us they'd have fusion in
another 10 years. 10 years later they tell us they are close but need
another 10 years. When are you going to wise up?
"The real problem with perpetual motion machines is that they are so close
to working that they just pull the inventor in, thinking that all they need
is just a little more refinement and they will work."
Try looking into this other new(?) idea -- hydrogen fuel cells for electric
automobiles. Check out the development time and the expense. Then look up
the electric car development program from 30 years ago and you'll find that
they said precisely the same things in favor of lithium or liquid sulfur
batteries back then that they now claim for air/hydrogen fuel cells now.
If you want a prediction I'll give it to you in 50 years oil will be too
valuable to burn in personal transportation vehicles. In 150 years energy
sources will start growing scarce and people will finally turn to fission in
large scale. In 200 years the only energy available and cheap enough to use
will be from renewable resources. And that will limit the population of this
planet to something well below what it is now.
Now guess what's going to happen in the meantime.
Henry Chang
wrote:
<bunch of stuff about fusion snipped>
I just gave fusion as an example.
Something better is going to come along. We don't know what it will be
or when it will be, but progress is inevitable.
Henry
Tom Kunich
That reminds me of the cartoon where the physicists are writing on a
blackboard with massive equations and in the middle of the equation it says,
"And a miracle occurs here".
Henry Chang
wrote:
>"Henry Chang" <henri...@takethisout.home.com> wrote in message
>news:3c6b24d8....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
>> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 01:55:08 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> <bunch of stuff about fusion snipped>
>>
>> I just gave fusion as an example.
>>
>> Something better is going to come along. We don't know what it will be
>> or when it will be, but progress is inevitable.
>
>That reminds me of the cartoon where the physicists are writing on a
>blackboard with massive equations and in the middle of the equation it says,
>"And a miracle occurs here".
It doesn't have to be a 'miracle'. It can be something very simple,
like hydrogen fuel cells, or, like you suggested, fission.
Do you really believe technological progress will stop? If so, I think
your view on technology is about as insightful as your view on
taxes/economics.
Henry
Tom Kunich
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:46:53 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >"Henry Chang" <henri...@takethisout.home.com> wrote in message
> >news:3c6b24d8....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> >> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 01:55:08 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> <bunch of stuff about fusion snipped>
> >>
> >> I just gave fusion as an example.
> >>
> >> Something better is going to come along. We don't know what it will be
> >> or when it will be, but progress is inevitable.
> >
> >That reminds me of the cartoon where the physicists are writing on a
> >blackboard with massive equations and in the middle of the equation it
says,
> >"And a miracle occurs here".
>
> It doesn't have to be a 'miracle'. It can be something very simple,
> like hydrogen fuel cells, or, like you suggested, fission.
Sure Henry, you technological genius, no matter how expensive something is
we will still be able to do it any time we like.
> Do you really believe technological progress will stop? If so, I think
> your view on technology is about as insightful as your view on
> taxes/economics.
Where is the fusion power plants Henry? How long do we wait for it? Do you
know what a shell game is?
Henry Chang
wrote:
>"Henry Chang" <henri...@takethisout.home.com> wrote in message
>news:3c6bebe4....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
>> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:46:53 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >"Henry Chang" <henri...@takethisout.home.com> wrote in message
>> >news:3c6b24d8....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
>> >> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 01:55:08 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> <bunch of stuff about fusion snipped>
>> >>
>> >> I just gave fusion as an example.
>> >>
>> >> Something better is going to come along. We don't know what it will be
>> >> or when it will be, but progress is inevitable.
>> >
>> >That reminds me of the cartoon where the physicists are writing on a
>> >blackboard with massive equations and in the middle of the equation it
>says,
>> >"And a miracle occurs here".
>>
>> It doesn't have to be a 'miracle'. It can be something very simple,
>> like hydrogen fuel cells, or, like you suggested, fission.
>
>Sure Henry, you technological genius, no matter how expensive something is
>we will still be able to do it any time we like.
Not a genius, but more informed than you.
Hydrogen fuel cells aren't expensive.
>> Do you really believe technological progress will stop? If so, I think
>> your view on technology is about as insightful as your view on
>> taxes/economics.
>
>Where is the fusion power plants Henry? How long do we wait for it? Do you
>know what a shell game is?
Do you, O Defender of Ken Lay?
Henry
Tom Kunich
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:54:04 GMT, "Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >Sure Henry, you technological genius, no matter how expensive something
is
> >we will still be able to do it any time we like.
>
> Not a genius, but more informed than you.
Informed about what Henry? I do happen to have some experience with electric
vehicles and the research behind them. In fact, I have letters-to-the-editor
for Electronics Engineering Times where I argued the weaknesses of electric
vehicles with PG & E all the way back to 1971 and 1972 and every single
thing I wrote about has proven correct.
Where have you gotten your extensive knowledge of electric vehicles and the
technology surrounding them?
> Hydrogen fuel cells aren't expensive.
So tell us what the cost of these fuel cells are then Henry.
Then tell us what the cost of converting the industry over from hydrocarbon
to hydrogen will be.
Then tell us where the energy to convert water to hydrogen is going to come
from -- remember that the actual energy budget for private transportation in
the USA is about the the same as all presently generated power in the USA
meaning that somehow we are going to have to generate approximately three
times the power in order to (inefficiently at best) convert water to
hydrogen, store the hydrogen safely in some manner (hydrogen leaks through
just about anything), deliver it to the millions of sites where it will be
required and somehow safely carry it in the vehicle itself.
Then explain what these fuel cells are made of, what the total cost of
manufacture is, including the mining of the materials, the construction of
the cells, the length of time that they are effective and the cost of
recycling the used cells. Explain what the polutions are from the mining and
manufacturing process and what it will cost to clean these up.
Henry, you ain't got a fucking idea what you're talking about.
> >Where is the fusion power plants Henry? How long do we wait for it? Do
you
> >know what a shell game is?
>
> Do you, O Defender of Ken Lay?
(Reuters) - An Enron Corp. whistleblower told Congress on Thursday that
former Chairman and CEO Kenneth Lay was deceived by other executives, one of
whom wanted her fired when she raised the alarm about the deepening
financial crisis at the collapsed energy giant.
People that were there have some reliable assessments -- but all you have is
your ability to type your slanderous tripe onto a newsgroup. And if there is
one thing that you can't stand it's anyone that might criticize your immoral
and unethical comments.
Henry Chang
wrote:
>>
>> Do you, O Defender of Ken Lay?
>
>(Reuters) - An Enron Corp. whistleblower told Congress on Thursday that
>former Chairman and CEO Kenneth Lay was deceived by other executives, one of
>whom wanted her fired when she raised the alarm about the deepening
>financial crisis at the collapsed energy giant.
>
>People that were there have some reliable assessments -- but all you have is
>your ability to type your slanderous tripe onto a newsgroup. And if there is
>one thing that you can't stand it's anyone that might criticize your immoral
>and unethical comments.
I'm immoral because I have a different opinion than you?
From:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23663-2002Feb4.html
"Enron Corp.'s collapse was the result of a "a systemic and pervasive
attempt" to inflate profits and hide losses, not of a few rogue
employees breaking company rules, a member of Enron's board of
directors told a House panel yesterday."
. . .
"The Powers report concluded that Lay and former chief executive
Jeffrey K. Skilling were largely responsible for a "fundamentally
flawed" decision to let Andrew S. Fastow, the company's chief
financial officer at the time, set up and run Enron-funded
partnerships that made him tens of millions of dollars and allowed
Enron to hide huge losses and debts. "
That is very enlightened worldview you have there Mr. Kunich, that
people who disagree with you are immoral.
Henry
Tom Paterson
>>"Tom Kunich" <tku...@earthlink.net wrote:
>>>(Reuters) - An Enron Corp. whistleblower told Congress on Thursday that
former Chairman and CEO Kenneth Lay was deceived by other executives, one of
whom wanted her fired when she raised the alarm about the deepening financial
crisis at the collapsed energy giant.>>>
>>People that were there have some reliable assessments -- but all you have is
your ability to type your slanderous tripe onto a newsgroup. And if there is
one thing that you can't stand it's anyone that might criticize your immoral
and unethical comments.
Mr. Chang asked:
>I'm immoral because I have a different opinion than you?
and posted:
>From:
>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23663-2002Feb4.html
>
>"Enron Corp.'s collapse was the result of a "a systemic and pervasive
>attempt" to inflate profits and hide losses, not of a few rogue employees
breaking company rules, a member of Enron's board of
>directors told a House panel yesterday."
>
>"The Powers report concluded that Lay and former chief executive
>Jeffrey K. Skilling were largely responsible for a "fundamentally
>flawed" decision to let Andrew S. Fastow, the company's chief
>financial officer at the time, set up and run Enron-funded
>partnerships that made him tens of millions of dollars and allowed
>Enron to hide huge losses and debts. "
>
>That is very enlightened worldview you have there Mr. Kunich, that
>people who disagree with you are immoral.
Well that is a standard ploy. "National Security" is being pulled out of the
bag, too, along with Executive Privilege, and Recusal.
May I be the first? Stonewall. Thank you.
--Tom Paterson