The "American Ferrari"

ronde champ

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Jul 31, 2002, 2:58:00 PM7/31/02

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Ok, we all know that Ferrari helped Lance. But since I asked fellow rbr'ers
about Christopher Baldwin, I've received a number of rather interesting
emails, which eventually turned into an email thread amongst a few of us.
We then moved the discussion over to r...@topica.com.

The discussion had to do with the person who has been named 'The American
Ferrari". Can anyone guess who it is?

If you answer Roberto Gaggioli, you are inccorect.

Thanks,
Ronde Champ

Henry Chang

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Jul 31, 2002, 3:22:19 PM7/31/02

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I'll play.

Hmmmm . . . .

Roberto Gaggioli?

Henry

ronde champ

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Jul 31, 2002, 3:31:49 PM7/31/02

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"Henry Chang" <lhchang.t...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3d4838ce....@news1.news.adelphia.net...

Correctamundo. The drugs are for his teeth.

Seth Moore

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Jul 31, 2002, 5:07:46 PM7/31/02

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Rumsas's uncle - Big Al Rumsas. Lives in Queens.

Seth Moore

"Henry Chang" <lhchang.t...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3d4838ce....@news1.news.adelphia.net...

Bob Schwartz

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Jul 31, 2002, 6:05:54 PM7/31/02

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Are we talking about the "American Ferrari" or the "Rudolfo Massi
of the US peloton"?

http://groups.google.com/groups?&selm=1998080621310300.RAA08215%40ladder03.news.aol.com

Bob Schwartz
cv...@execpc.com

Stewart Fleming

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Jul 31, 2002, 7:00:47 PM7/31/02

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"ronde champ" <ronde...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ai9c7i$psf$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com>...

> The discussion had to do with the person who has been named 'The American
> Ferrari". Can anyone guess who it is?

Are the initials CC?
STF

Rik Van Diesel

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Jul 31, 2002, 7:09:17 PM7/31/02

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"ronde champ" <ronde...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<ai9c7i$psf$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com>...

My guess.
Dr. Heiden

Brad Anders

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Jul 31, 2002, 7:14:35 PM7/31/02

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"Rik Van Diesel" <metalkpre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:83021f87.02073...@posting.google.com...

Like to see you say that to his face, but maybe that explains your anon
sig.

Brad Anders

warren

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Jul 31, 2002, 7:43:11 PM7/31/02

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In article <83021f87.02073...@posting.google.com>, Rik Van
Diesel <metalkpre...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Yeah sure. If you ever spent even 10 minutes talking with him you'd
realize what a stupid guess that is.

-WG

Bob Schwartz

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Jul 31, 2002, 10:37:12 PM7/31/02

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Rik Van Diesel wrote:
> Dr. Heiden

Wrong specialty, he's an orthopedic surgeon like his dad.

Bob Schwartz
cv...@execpc.com

Amit

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Aug 1, 2002, 2:05:47 AM8/1/02

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Bob Schwartz <cv...@shell.core.com> wrote in message news:<3d485f41$0$1422$1dc6...@news.corecomm.net>...

> Are we talking about the "American Ferrari" or the "Rudolfo Massi
> of the US peloton"?
>

I know who the "R. Kelly" of U.S. cycling is.

ronde champ

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Aug 1, 2002, 9:21:23 AM8/1/02

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Stewie,

One of the initials is C.

Close but no cigaR. You weRe almost CoRRect.

Thanks,
Ronde Champ

"Stewart Fleming" <drm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4a1c6b42.02073...@posting.google.com...

ronde champ

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Aug 1, 2002, 9:22:42 AM8/1/02

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Rick,

How dare you insult the man who put the US Pro Championships on the map!

I like your first name though.

Thanks,
Ronde Champ

"Rik Van Diesel" <metalkpre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:83021f87.02073...@posting.google.com...

XZZY

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Aug 1, 2002, 10:46:08 AM8/1/02

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is the second letter of his first name: E

"ronde champ" <ronde...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:aibbru$s0o$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com...

ronde champ

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Aug 1, 2002, 11:09:04 AM8/1/02

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Jesus ChRist, man, how can you scRew up such afteR such good hints on my
paRt.

Thanks,
Ronde Champ

"XZZY" <mrbik...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:QQb29.113261$uh7.18582@sccrnsc03...

Jon Fiedler

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Aug 1, 2002, 12:01:56 PM8/1/02

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Is it the french stripper?

(or would that be The American Renault?)

Jon

Obstrep

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Aug 1, 2002, 12:27:51 PM8/1/02

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come on Ronde, you can't be more clever than that? we all know it's rick
crawford, tell me something i didn't know.

ronde champ

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Aug 1, 2002, 12:58:41 PM8/1/02

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So you think you're "in the know", Obie Wan?

Thanks,
Ronde Champ

"Obstrep" <obs...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020801122751...@mb-bj.aol.com...

Obstrep

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Aug 1, 2002, 12:52:43 PM8/1/02

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not interested in a pissing match...just thought you might have some new info.
that's all.

Henry Chang

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Aug 1, 2002, 12:50:02 PM8/1/02

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Is he related to the Lion King?

Henry

ronde champ

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Aug 1, 2002, 1:09:26 PM8/1/02

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Info? Me? Nah.

Thanks,
Ronde Champ

"Obstrep" <obs...@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020801125243...@mb-bj.aol.com...

Amit

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Aug 1, 2002, 2:36:15 PM8/1/02

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"ronde champ" <ronde...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<aibi65$501$1...@nntp-m01.news.aol.com>...

> Jesus ChRist, man, how can you scRew up such afteR such good hints on my
> paRt.
>
> Thanks,
> Ronde Champ
>

I know, now that you've spelled it out.

ronde champ

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Aug 1, 2002, 3:02:43 PM8/1/02

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"Amit" <am...@physics.utoronto.ca> wrote in message
news:df5bdaa0.02080...@posting.google.com...

Yeah, sure you do.

Rik Van Diesel

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Aug 1, 2002, 6:50:13 PM8/1/02

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"Brad Anders" <nos...@mycompany.com> wrote in message news:<ai9r0u$k...@news.or.intel.com>...

Brad,
Sorry I insulted Heiden. I do not know him and would not want to sully
his reputation. I apologize. My question though. Is being the
"American Ferrari" a bad thing? I didn't realize Ferrari is associated
only with drugs, and cyclist performance. But if you accept that drugs
are his only claim to sports medicine then fine let me give you the
logic behind my guess. Ferrari is on trial, but not convicted of
anything yet. People associate Ferrari with Armstrong with drugs, they
admit the connection, no harm. Guilt by association, but true. So I
reversed that. I associated Heiden with Testa. Heiden "Look I work
with Testa we are partners and I convinced him to come to America".
Testa works with which athlete who is currently suspended/ on
probation for drugs. Hint kicked out of the Giro, stays at Testa's
house, is friends with both doctors, trained here over the winter,
this year before being busted. What is that guy's name? So you see,
given a chance to guess, (thanks to Ronde, and mostly because I missed
the joke about Gaggioli) and without any hard facts. I pick someone
who was a good doctor, who knows sports medicine, who has the
connections, who is associated with cycling, who is associated with an
athlete who was busted, and who is partners with his doctor. Oh and I
assumed he had to be American. Do you see the reasoning. I apologize
again. And on that note Ronde how dare you insult the one of the
winningest cyclist in America. Roberto has never tested positive in a
race, and has never been convicted of distributing drug to cyclist. So
apologize NOW!!! Come clean. I did. It felt good.
Rik or Rick or Mr. Diesel to you.

warren

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Aug 1, 2002, 8:24:39 PM8/1/02

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In article <83021f87.02080...@posting.google.com>, Rik Van

Diesel <metalkpre...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I associated Heiden with Testa. Heiden "Look I work
> with Testa we are partners and I convinced him to come to America".
> Testa works with which athlete who is currently suspended/ on
> probation for drugs. Hint kicked out of the Giro, stays at Testa's
> house, is friends with both doctors, trained here over the winter,
> this year before being busted. What is that guy's name?

Garzelli was quite likely sabotaged with probenicid. There is no
rational reason to use it intentially because it's so easily detected.

Testa worked almost exclusively with the Motorola team. Do you want to
implicate them too?

As before, spend 10 minutes talking to Max and you learn a little about
how much he has to offer about legal and ethical performance
enhancement. He told me that one of the main reasons he came to America
was because of prevailing attitudes about training and performance
enhancement in Europe (you can imagine what he meant) and that the
American athletes were more open/receptive to his scientific approach
to training.

-WG

Brad Anders

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Aug 1, 2002, 8:32:13 PM8/1/02

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"warren" <war...@usvh.com> wrote in message
news:010820021718282220%war...@usvh.com...

I started to respond to Rik's message but you did it for me with your
comments. I know people who have had multi-year relationships with Testa
and he's never offered or condoned any form of illegal drug use that I'm
aware of. Quite the opposite, I'm pretty sure Testa has been one of the
strongest "behind the scenes" people at working towards the elimination
of drug use. And given that I've only ever heard positive things about
Eric Heiden, the fact that he associates with Testa should be
interpreted a good indication. As for some of Testa's athletes testing
positive for drugs, it's not surprising. His contact with them is
limited and he has no control over what they do outside of his view. To
compare him with Ferrari, who has public stated that he views illegal
drugs as a primary component of a successful program, is unfair.

Brad Anders

Henry Chang

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Aug 1, 2002, 4:24:21 PM8/1/02

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Is he distantly related to the Lion King?

Henry

Kyle Legate

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Aug 1, 2002, 10:25:24 PM8/1/02

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Hmm...we know there's a C....Ronde Champ's been subtly suggesting a R may
be involved...there's a C...and an R...an R and a C. RC. Ronde Champ.

Ronde Champ is the answer.

... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
leg...@mcmaster.ca Kyle Legate leg...@hotmail.com

Tower of Tongues:Thursday PM:10:30-11:30 EDT:http://cfmu.mcmaster.ca
moon musick:ritual:IDM:experimental(electronica):minimalism:glitch
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ...

ronde champ

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Aug 2, 2002, 9:03:15 AM8/2/02

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"Rik Van Diesel" <metalkpre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:83021f87.02080...@posting.google.com...

Ok, I take it back. I still think he has nasty yellow teeth, though.

Thanks,
RC

Rik Van Diesel

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Aug 2, 2002, 7:11:43 PM8/2/02

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warren <war...@usvh.com> wrote in message news:<010820021718282220%war...@usvh.com>...

> Garzelli was quite likely sabotaged with probenicid. There is no

> rational reason to use it intentially because it's so easily detected.

Warren,

Maybe he was sabotage. I think it might have been the same guy who
kill OJ's wife. See the link below for a possible other explanation.
Oh and by the way I like Garzelli he seemed like a nice guy. I hope he
is clean. I don't think this can be washed away like Simoni (who seems
to be semi innocent, also see my previous rant on not caring about
some pro racer partying). Personally I doubt his innocent. Fool
yourself.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2002/jul02/jul27news

> Testa worked almost exclusively with the Motorola team. Do you want to
> implicate them too?

The Motorola Team?? HMMM No they were definitely clean... I do
remember during the Lance witchhunt in 01' tour an article, that puts
ferrari with Lance and company, while on motorola. Circa 95'. So you
if you think Ferrari was dirty he was there in the motorola days.
Maybe that supports your claim because Testa wasn't giving them the
goods. But who cares. History.

> As before, spend 10 minutes talking to Max and you learn a little about
> how much he has to offer about legal and ethical performance
> enhancement. He told me that one of the main reasons he came to America
> was because of prevailing attitudes about training and performance
> enhancement in Europe (you can imagine what he meant) and that the
> American athletes were more open/receptive to his scientific approach
> to training.

I have and he is a great guy with great advice. I am sure the first
thing he would do is tell a master cat 4 is how to shoot up. Max has
worked with some great cyclist, and is a cool guy. I like him on a
personal level. I really wasn't trying to implicate him. However if
his cyclist needed advise on something he was taking I am sure for
that athletes on sake he would help. He is not a cop. He is a doctor.

Rik