Skier Maier to lead out Tour de France
Charter Usenet
My two favorite sports coming together. This is great!
Maybe we'll see Tyler Hamilton forerun a WC SL someday.
--
Marty
Ronald
"Charter Usenet" <m_p...@yah00.com> wrote in message
news:vfolg1d...@corp.supernews.com...
Andy Coggan
ski racing requires a surprising amount of aerobic fitness (as well as
anaerobic capacity and isometric strength).
Andy Coggan
"Ronald" <ronaldvt_re...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3efc6299$0$13799$4d4e...@news.nl.uu.net...
Aaron Daniel
an anaerobic state for as long as possible. Prologues tend to be short time
trials. I am sure the nature of the event will allow him the opportunity to
deport himself (and skiing by implication) well. I doubt he has professional
cyclist level bike handling or aerodynamic skills enough to beat pro
cyclists who are actually giving 100%. Many of the "helpers" on a
professional team will not be riding 100% during the prologue to save their
energy for later stages. So, who knows.
Aar
"Andy Coggan" <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jd%Ka.67636$Io.63...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Marlene Blanshay
<ronaldvt_re...@hotmail.com> wrote:
The guy is awesome. I couldn't believe he skied again this year. He's made
of titanium, I swear.
K. J. Papai
>
> My two favorite sports coming together. This is great!
> Maybe we'll see Tyler Hamilton forerun a WC SL someday.
Also reported on CyclingNews:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2003/jun03/jun27news2
My Podium/top-8:
1. LANCE
2. Ullrich
3. Beloki
4. LEVI !
5. Mayo
6. Simoni
8. TYLER
-Ken
David Ryan
Carl Sundquist
"David Ryan" <bikerp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3EFCBA18...@hotmail.com...
> According to the story, he gets a three-minute head start.
>
I'd say that's more to distinguish that he is not one of the actual
competitors and to make sure he's out of the way for the competitors in case
he has a mishap.
B. Lafferty
in person for years. He's been quite nice in his respectful comments for
the Tour and its riders. But what kind of time will he do??
"Andy Coggan" <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jd%Ka.67636$Io.63...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Java Man
AceptNoSu...@hotmail.com says...
> He cycles for fitness in Italy and France and has closely followed the Tour
> in person for years. He's been quite nice in his respectful comments for
> the Tour and its riders. But what kind of time will he do??
>
I'd expect Maier to do significantly worse given his age. That's no
slam against Maier. Tour cyclists are very impressive specialized
athletes.
Rick
Carl Sundquist
"Java Man (Espressopithecus)" <rick...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
>
> How well do world class triathletes do in comparison to Tour cyclists?
> I'd expect Maier to do significantly worse given his age.
He's 15 months younger than LANCE.
Carl Sundquist
<b...@home.com> wrote in message
news:cq0qfv0jg53mdk6nh...@4ax.com...
> Hey the guy can do 40km in under an hour apparently so who knows?....
> He's probably known about this for a while so maybe hes trained for
> this one effort.
>
Think they'll do testing on him?
Marty Pietruszka
news:jd%Ka.67636$Io.63...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
alpine
> ski racing requires a surprising amount of aerobic fitness (as well as
> anaerobic capacity and isometric strength).
>
> Andy Coggan
I believe that the Herminator will be 31 this December. Not too old for a
great World Cup level athlete. I do know that the Austrians use A LOT of
stationary cycling for indoor training and it sounds like he rides quite a
bit during the off season. I'm sure he's been training for this event and
based on his comeback this season in WC Skiing, I don't think his leg is
bothering him too much. Add to this his will to compete and I think he'll
do okay. In any case, this is great for both cycling and for skiing fans.
Can't wait to him go for it.
Go Hermann!!!
--
Marty
Bikerecker
or has crap equipment. He is one of the best athletes in the world, is beyond
hyper-competitive, and has balls of beryllium. Like most DHers, he trains hard
on the bike in the off season. Anyone who can drop off a mountain at nearly
90+ can ride a bike around at 31 MPH.
Greg Miller
lazysegall
college. In high school we had video of the norwegian ski team
training...The training can be classified as nothing short of insane
Maier is a tremendous athlete...as are most great skiers. A few years
ago maier competed in the snapple superstars competition...that stupid
competition where pro athletes from different sports compete in running
and stuff...Anyway maier blew away the feild. It is also a well known
fact that ski racers can see the line as well as anyone short of maybe
F1 drivers...I would expect him to not have much trouble picking a good
line...I would also think that maier would be able to hold an
aerodynamic position as many of the skills required for a tuck and a
good TT position seem similar. On the other hand no one has mentioned
that maier weighs over 220 lbs!!!!!!!! What cyclist weighs near that
much...Regardless of how good he might be I just can;t belive that you
can compete at anywhere near a world class level in cycling with weight
like that.
--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com
Kurgan Gringioni
"Bikerecker" <biker...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030628004802...@mb-m04.aol.com...
I agree that Maier will be respectable, but it's not because he drops off a
mountain at 90. So can Picabo Street.
Maier is just an incredible physical specimen.
Robert Chung
"Andy Coggan" <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:jd%Ka.67636$Io.63...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> (as well as anaerobic capacity and isometric strength).
This year's prologue is not particularly technical, with one short early
hill (of maybe 25 meters) and only one turn of more than 90 degrees. In
addition, thre are always guys who don't care about the prologue. If Maier
were motivated, it wouldn't surprise me if he beat a couple of them. I just
hope he doesn't show up in a head fairing.
Marty Pietruszka
news:3efd5abb$0$5417$626a...@news.free.fr...
>
> I just hope he doesn't show up in a head fairing.
Me too. But, I do hope he shows up in his red Carrera Fireball helmet,
Carrera goggles and Austrian National Team DH Speed suit. Now THAT would be
funny.
--
Marty
Marlene Blanshay
<mpie...@charter.net> wrote:
I wonder what kind of skin suit he'll be wearing- austrian national team?
Davide Tosi
Kurgan Gringioni
"Davide Tosi" <david...@comune.re.it> wrote in message
news:3f51c32c....@news.cis.dfn.de...
I thought God was a Padan.
Andy Coggan
news:3efd4402$1...@news.chariot.net.au...
Try telling that to Sean Eadie.
Andy Coggan
Aaron Daniel
Olympic ski racing.
Aaron Daniel
Ski racing is technically and anaerobically demanding which rewards younger
people more. Road bicycle racing is aerobically, technically and very
tactically demanding. It is the tactical demand in bicycle racing that
rewards a slightly more mature athlete.
Ski racers are often in their prime during their early 20s and the absolute
best are almost all retired by the age of 35. Road bicycle racers typically
reach their prime in their mid to late 20s and can easily carry that prime
into their early 30s. While most retire in their mid 30s it is not unheard
of for a few to continue into their very late 30s and I believe a few we
active at worl class levels into their 40s.
Aar
"Carl Sundquist" <car...@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:vfptn38...@corp.supernews.com...
warren
Daniel <ada...@triad.rr.com> wrote:
> Goes to show you the variance in the ages at which skiers and cyclists peak.
> Ski racing is technically and anaerobically demanding which rewards younger
> people more. Road bicycle racing is aerobically, technically and very
> tactically demanding. It is the tactical demand in bicycle racing that
> rewards a slightly more mature athlete.
>
> Ski racers are often in their prime during their early 20s and the absolute
> best are almost all retired by the age of 35.
It's kinda like motocross racing. By the time a person gets to be 35
years old they have too many nagging injury problems to continue.
-WG
Sam
has been in the 350W range (at 1860m altitude). I would say that their
ability to TT on a non-technical course (that is one that does not require
better than average bike handling skills) would be on par with Tour
riders...maybe not the big boys, but they would not be embarassed.
"Java Man (Espressopithecus)" <rick...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:MPG.19667c127...@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net...
Roy Ellefsen
Can the Herminator (Maier) beat the Terminaitor (Aitor Gonzalez)?
That's the real question.
--
Roy Ellefsen
Marlene Blanshay
"Andy Coggan" <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote:
Yes, he's a really huge guy, but trackies tend to be big. I remember
seeing Marty Nothstein standing next to lance armstrong at that NYC race
last year (in a photo) and he towered over him. He's a huge guy! He made
lance look like a shrimp!
Marlene Blanshay
(Davide Tosi) wrote:
I think that once you win at Kitzbuhel, you're elevated to the status of god.
Ronaldo Jeremiah
> > that maier weighs over 220 lbs!!!!!!!! What cyclist weighs near that
> > much...Regardless of how good he might be I just can;t belive that you
> > can compete at anywhere near a world class level in cycling with weight
> > like that.
>
> Try telling that to Sean Eadie.
>
How much does Magnus Backstedt weigh? Close to that, I expect.
-RJ
Ronaldo Jeremiah
>
If they also let Bjorn Daehlie ride the prologue, who would win
between the skiers? I think I'd put my money on Bjorn, but not a lot
of it.
-RJ
Jeff Jones
"Sam" <marat...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bdl8mh$85h$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
> In lab testing I have done, the power @ LT of US Olympic caliber
triathletes
> has been in the 350W range (at 1860m altitude). I would say that their
> ability to TT on a non-technical course (that is one that does not require
> better than average bike handling skills) would be on par with Tour
> riders...maybe not the big boys, but they would not be embarassed.
>
and 530+ for a 4 km individual pursuit (ouch!!).
Jeff
Carl Sundquist
"Aaron Daniel" <ada...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:eUlLa.129706$nr.67...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Goes to show you the variance in the ages at which skiers and cyclists
peak.
> Ski racing is technically and anaerobically demanding which rewards
younger
> people more. Road bicycle racing is aerobically, technically and very
> tactically demanding. It is the tactical demand in bicycle racing that
> rewards a slightly more mature athlete.
>
> Ski racers are often in their prime during their early 20s and the
absolute
> best are almost all retired by the age of 35. Road bicycle racers
typically
> reach their prime in their mid to late 20s and can easily carry that prime
> into their early 30s. While most retire in their mid 30s it is not unheard
> of for a few to continue into their very late 30s and I believe a few we
> active at worl class levels into their 40s.
>
Two very significant factors also are eyesight and reflexes. As those
degrade through age, ski racers cannot see and respond to course and
direction changes as quickly. Except for Savodelli-like descents, cyclists
don't have nearly the need for those two qualities as ski racers.
Mary Malmros
According to Hermann Maier, certainly, he is.
--
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros mal...@shore.net
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.
Davide Tosi
I think that on a short race like this prologue, Hermann's strenght would
prevail over Bjorn aerobic capacities.
Andy Coggan
Strength is irrelevant even in an event as short as a prologue.
Except for some track events, cycling is a predominantly aerobic sport - I'd
therefore bet on the guy with the VO2max of >90 mL/min/kg.
Andy Coggan
Aaron Daniel
would give the edge to world class cyclists. Over flatter, non-technical,
longer (over 75 miles) courses I would give the edge to world class
triathletes. The difference is in the training and genetic capabilities of
the athletes.
Triathletes are phenomenal at high steady-state, long-term output through
maximum aerobic capacity. Cyclists require similar aerobic capacities but
they have a greater need to develop the ability to spend long times in an
anaerobic state and the ability to recover from those stints at a slightly
sub-maximal aerobic state. This is required to handle the demands of
attacking, hill climbing, regaining speed lost in corners, etc. Development
of the ability to handle that anaerobic requirement forces a modest
reduction in pure areobic capacity.
I believe I read once where Lance's aerobic capacity peaks during off-season
training but is slightly lower as he peaks for the Tour. It is through his
racing prior to the Tour that he maximizes his anaerobic capacity (ability
to operate in and recover from anaerobic zones).
Anyway, I have moved into the area where my understanding of this
information is stretched thin so I will shut up.
Aar
"Sam" <marat...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:bdl8mh$85h$1...@slb5.atl.mindspring.net...
Aaron Daniel
overcome a cyclist with high aerobic capacity - especially if the course is
technical or hilly (note, not mountainous).
"Andy Coggan" <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:wPDLa.17804$C83.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Robert Swindells
> Ski racing is technically and anaerobically demanding which rewards younger
> people more. Road bicycle racing is aerobically, technically and very
> tactically demanding. It is the tactical demand in bicycle racing that
> rewards a slightly more mature athlete.
>
> Ski racers are often in their prime during their early 20s and the absolute
> best are almost all retired by the age of 35. Road bicycle racers typically
> reach their prime in their mid to late 20s and can easily carry that prime
> into their early 30s. While most retire in their mid 30s it is not unheard
> of for a few to continue into their very late 30s and I believe a few we
> active at worl class levels into their 40s.
I thought that ski racers were at their peak in their late 20s as well.
If you take out the dozen or so superstars who can win races from an early
age, most WC racers are late 20s or early 30s.
Robert Swindells
Kurgan Gringioni
> Short cycling events - like prologues - can allow a strong cyclist to
> overcome a cyclist with high aerobic capacity - especially if the course
is
> technical or hilly (note, not mountainous).
Your head is up your ass.
If you have a running event with the same amount of time spent on hills is
the aerobic runner stronger? or the weightlifter?
Prologues are usually, what 6-10 minutes, roughly analogous to a 3k run.
If a someone looking for cycling talent wants a prologue specialist, just
run down to Gold's Gym right?
warren
Gringioni <kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hey, he meant a REALLY short TT. Those guys at the gym can go pretty
hard for about 30 seconds (10 reps), but as soon as they get finished
resting for 5 minutes they can do another 30 seconds.
Prologue TT is basically a 3-6K pursuit. Do pursuiters spend much time
in the gym?
-WG
Sam
And then there are knee injuries to alpine skiers...
Carl Sundquist
"warren" <war...@usvh.com> wrote in message
>
> Hey, he meant a REALLY short TT. Those guys at the gym can go pretty
> hard for about 30 seconds (10 reps), but as soon as they get finished
> resting for 5 minutes they can do another 30 seconds.
>
> Prologue TT is basically a 3-6K pursuit. Do pursuiters spend much time
> in the gym?
>
Nitz did.
Aaron Daniel
Swede) you could be right. In more recent times look at Zurbriggen, Tomba,
Ghirardelli, etc they (except Ghirardelli) were all out by their early mid
thirties and skied for many years past their prime. A few speed event skiers
are hanging around past their 30th birthday but the WC field looks like a
youth movement to me.
"Robert Swindells" <r...@fdy2.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3ef10ba3.03062...@posting.google.com...
Aaron Daniel
here. I'm talking about strong, powerful cyclists. Notice I said can - I did
not say will or would.
My intention was to indicate that the event in question would not
necessarily allow a cyclist with superior aerobic capacity to blow away a
cyclist with a lower aerobic capacity but superior strength. Were the time
trial in question of full stage length I wouldn't even bother to make a
comment like that.
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:QIGLa.21050$Jw6.8...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Carl Sundquist
> If you look back as far as the Mahres, Klammer and (whatshis name - the
> Swede) you could be right.
Ingemar Stenmark.
Carl
(I finally got a name right for once!)
Kurgan Gringioni
> Keep the flames to yourself. I'm not talking about weight lifting strength
> here. I'm talking about strong, powerful cyclists. Notice I said can - I
did
> not say will or would.
Miguel Indurain and Lance Armstrong are 2 cyclists who regularly finish in
the top 3 of the TdF prologue.
Leg strength or aerobica capacity?
Thank you very much, dumbass.
Stewart Fleming
Slalom specialist though, not downhill as I recall.
STF
Robert Chung
[stuff snipped]
> Anyway, I have moved into the area where my understanding of this
> information is stretched thin so I will shut up.
Perhaps you should have quit a tiny bit earlier.
Aaron Daniel
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:MoOLa.21179$Jw6.8...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Aaron Daniel
"Robert Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3effc688$0$26626$626a...@news.free.fr...
Robert Chung
Because there are people posting in this thread whose understanding of this
information isn't stretched thin.
bdubya
Hmm...if you want to keep it among such people, maybe you should lose
the crosspost. Otherwise, get used to it.
bw
Aaron Daniel
counter what I've put forth please do.
"Robert Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:3f004986$0$4607$626a...@news.free.fr...
Kurgan Gringioni
> Both?
How about aerobic capacity.
Compare their BMI to those with the ultimate leg strength: powerlifters. How
would powerlifters do in a prologue?
Why don't the sprinters win the prologues? They have the most maximum output
of the cyclists.
Like I said before: dumbass.
respectfully yours,
K. Gringioni
Aaron Daniel
disrespecting me you will note that I have not stated that a strong rider
will necessarily win the prologue. I have stated that a strong rider has a
much greater opportunity to excel in a prologue as opposed to longer time
trials or other cycling events.
If sprinters do so poorly in prologues how are they frequently able to
overcome their massive time deficits to wear the yellow jersey during the
first week of the Tour? Take a look at the placings of sprinters in past
Tour prologues and compare that with their placings in mid-Tour time trials.
You will find them much higher placed in the prologues than in mid-Tour time
trials. I am not naive enough to believe that motivation and energy
conservation don't play a factor in their performances. Look at sprinters
who are highly motivated to perform well in both stages - those who finish
higly on GC as well as green jersey competitions. You'll find that their
prologue performance is generally their highest time trial placing of the
tour.
If aerobic capacity is the only predictor of prologue time trial performance
why don't pure climbers win them?
Aar
"Kurgan Gringioni" <kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:EhZLa.21284$Jw6.8...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
Robert Chung
Top poster "Aaron Daniel" <ada...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:aYYLa.201143$jp.53...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> I don't see that information being put forth. If you have information to
> counter what I've put forth please do.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but since your understanding in this area
is stretched thin how would you know?
FWIW, contributors to this thread have included: 1) a widely-published PhD
in exercise physiology who specializes in time trials, has studied elite
cyclists and their performances, and is probably working on what will be
*the* book on cycling power; 2) a guy who has held the US championship
jersey in the pursuit (and not just once); and 3) a guy who's been in about
600 races. (There are others in this thread whose experiences are
considerable -- it's just that I don't know their bona fides off the top of
my head). If you think that good and accurate information hasn't been put
forth in this thread, then I'd suggest you reconsider.
Nev Shea
This explanation is obviously far too subtle for him; you should just
follow Henry's lead and tell him it's because he's a dumbass.
NS
Kurgan Gringioni
> If you'll start reading what I've posted, stop name calling and stop
> disrespecting me you will note that I have not stated that a strong rider
> will necessarily win the prologue. I have stated that a strong rider has a
> much greater opportunity to excel in a prologue as opposed to longer time
> trials or other cycling events.
>
> If sprinters do so poorly in prologues how are they frequently able to
> overcome their massive time deficits to wear the yellow jersey during the
> first week of the Tour?
Hey dumbass -
Sprinters don't win prologues. They do OK in them, then get time bonuses in
sprints.
Why do they do OK in them? Because their aerobic capacity is OK.
So, Dumbass, it's not their leg strength.
Leg strength, the type that is measured in the gym, is an anaerobic system
and different anaerobic systems are used for anywhere from a few seconds to
a few minutes. Not 6-10 minutes - that is the aerobic system. That is why
Lance Armstrong and Jan Ullrich will both finish in the top 5 in the
prologue and Robbie McEwen (the fastest sprinter last year, and presumably
the one with the greatest maximum output) will not.
> If aerobic capacity is the only predictor of prologue time trial
performance
> why don't pure climbers win them?
Not enough power to frontal area ratio (non-uphill time trialing). Pure
climbers are very light. Climbing ability is sustained power to weight
ratio.
BTW, the only reason I'm calling you a dumbass is that in this thread that's
what you are. Don't take it personally.
Nev Shea
> Not enough power to frontal area ratio (non-uphill time trialing).
> Pure climbers are very light. Climbing ability is sustained power to
> weight ratio.
All this talk about climbers and sprinters in the prologue reminded me of a
few years ago where Marcel Wust rode easy in the prologue, then blasted up
the one minor hill to win the KOM jersey for the first week. Think he even
won a bunch sprint while wearing polka dots.
It was pretty ridiculous having a pure sprinter in the KOM jersey like
that, though not as ridiculous as dumbass continuing to argue in this
thread.
NS
Kurgan Gringioni
"Nev Shea" <spam...@garbage.net> wrote in message
news:fk%La.72085$Io.67...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Come on Nev. Dumbasses are fun. We should encourage them.
Kyle Legate
>
> If sprinters do so poorly in prologues how are they frequently able to
> overcome their massive time deficits to wear the yellow jersey during
> the first week of the Tour?
>
sprints are significant.
I love it when the ignorant wallflowers come out for the tour.
David Off
> But what kind of time will he do??
Well I don't think he could beat any professional cyclist on the Tour to
be honest with you. It should liven up the prologue, nobody will take
it easy and be seen to be beaten by a skier.
Lance will win, David Millar will come second, like in the Dauphine a
couple of weeks ago.
Dave Stallard
Is anyone this year regarded as a serious rival to Lance for the overall
Tour win?
Dave
Kurgan Gringioni
"Kyle Legate" <leg...@mcmaster.ca> wrote in message
news:a7c7388ebb8acc18...@free.teranews.com...
Agreed, this is one of the funnest times of the year.
Where are hoffman and enewmark? Those guys were great.
Stewart Fleming
Aaron Daniel wrote:
> If sprinters do so poorly in prologues how are they frequently able to
> overcome their massive time deficits to wear the yellow jersey during the
> first week of the Tour? Take a look at the placings of sprinters in past
> Tour prologues and compare that with their placings in mid-Tour time trials.
> You will find them much higher placed in the prologues than in mid-Tour time
> trials. I am not naive enough to believe that motivation and energy
Time bonuses. Intermediate sprints and stage bonuses.
There's even a damn sprint near the end of the prologue!!
Look at it this way, you know you only have 6.5km to do. You know that
in order to have a chance at yellow you need to be within a minute or so
of the lead (20-30sec is closer to it). So you go for it - sprinters
can easily do 350-400W in a short time-trial. Then you have 3 or 4 flat
stages in which to pick up stages or time bonuses to get yellow. Add to
that the fact that overall GC contenders don't really want yellow in the
first week since it is harder for their teams to control the race for
that long.
In an intermediate time-trial, if you are not an overall GC contender,
then why bother. Stick on the gear so that it looks good, but a lot of
domestiques and sprinters will be doing an easy spin, enough to keep
within the time limit for sure...
STF
Nev Shea
Of course you're right. It was terribly rude for me not to show him the
respect he deserves. From now on, it will be Mr. Dumbass
NS
David Off
Lance had a nasty crash on the Galibier I think??? in the Dauphine
Libere and is apparently a bit shaken up, that's what I read in l'Equipe
anyway. Plus his personal problems must have been stressful. I'm
pleased they are going over the Col de l'Izoard, I really like this
climb and descent down the other side..
Yeah, it has to be Lance again but this may be the last one. The big
guys always crack eventually, and when the fall it is usually pretty
devastating.
Jan Ullrich and Tyler Hamilton are on my list for the top 5. Ullrich
could have been another Lance but threw it all away to spend a winter
eating donuts, he's never really come back from that.
I hope Millar does a top ten but I just don't think the Brits have it
anymore in top level sport. Sorry I know guys like Tommy Simpson and
Baz Hoban probably did a lot of drugs but they really did know how to
suffer. I mean, could you see David Millar asking to be put back on his
bike? He might ask for his shades to be put back on.
I don't think Pantani can do it anymore (he is riding isn't he?), maybe
a mountain stage, perhaps on the Izoard? If it is a changeover year it
could be someone like Mancebo, before a new guy comes and dominates.
I'm not familiar enough with people like Leipheimer to comment though.
Regarding Maier, would anyone expect a cyclist to put up an even vaguely
competitive time against a downhill skier. Even a cyclist who skied
seriously in the winter. I think not. The levels are totally different.
Mary Malmros
> Top poster "Aaron Daniel" <ada...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:aYYLa.201143$jp.53...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> > I don't see that information being put forth. If you have information to
> > counter what I've put forth please do.
>
> Not to put too fine a point on it, but since your understanding in this area
> is stretched thin how would you know?
He'd know because you'd condescend to point out exactly what posters
and posts you're talking about.
And before you rip into me too, go look at the Newsgroups line. We
don't all know the members of your li'l club.
--
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Mary Malmros mal...@shore.net
Some days you're the windshield,
Other days you're the bug.
heather halvorson
Nev Shea wrote:
>
> All this talk about climbers and sprinters in the prologue reminded me of a
> few years ago where Marcel Wust rode easy in the prologue, then blasted up
> the one minor hill to win the KOM jersey for the first week. Think he even
> won a bunch sprint while wearing polka dots.
in case anyone wants more details, (from cs, sept 2000)
"It was an ingenious idea and it worked. Before the race, Marcel Wust
looked at the profile of the time trial course and suddenly something
crossed his mind: early in the 16.5 kilometre test there was a fourth
category climb. The German sprinter knew that the King of the Mountains
points would be awarded to the rider who climbed the hill at Jaunay-Clan
the quickest. He also knew that there was not another KoM hill until
stage six, so the man who won the polka-dot jersey on the opening stage
would wear it for at least five days.
Wust chatted with Juan Fernandez, the Festina directeur sportif, and
decided it was a gamble worth taking. He would begin the time trial on
his normal Specialized road bike instead of his low-profile machine and
attack the climb as quickly as possible.
It worked. Wust was the quickest on the climb..."I did the longest
sprint of my life, " Wust said afterwards, "and it paid off.""
the article then goes on to describe how he beat erik zabel in stage
five in a bunch sprint, and says the last person to win a bunch sprint
while in the polka dot jersey was jean-paul van poppel at
boulanges-sur-mer in 1994.
i always liked that story,
h
Carl Sundquist
>
> Agreed, this is one of the funnest times of the year.
>
> Where are hoffman and enewmark? Those guys were great.
>
>
Wwhheerree''ss CCaaaanniinnoo??
Andy Coggan
is not a component of performance. That's why, e.g., Boardman was able to
win the prologue and take the golden fleece one year (and why it makes sense
he was willing to risk broken bones to try to win it again).
Andy Coggan
"Aaron Daniel" <ada...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:96ELa.137352$nr.69...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> Short cycling events - like prologues - can allow a strong cyclist to
> overcome a cyclist with high aerobic capacity - especially if the course
is
> technical or hilly (note, not mountainous).
>
> "Andy Coggan" <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:wPDLa.17804$C83.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > "Davide Tosi" <david...@comune.re.it> wrote in message
> > news:3f13f931...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> > > ronaldo_...@yahoo.com (Ronaldo Jeremiah) wrote:
> > >
> > > >"Ronald" <ronaldvt_re...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:<3efc6299$0$13799$4d4e...@news.nl.uu.net>...
> > > >> It would be funny if he beat some of the pro's.
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >If they also let Bjorn Daehlie ride the prologue, who would win
> > > >between the skiers? I think I'd put my money on Bjorn, but not a lot
> > > >of it.
> > >
> > > I think that on a short race like this prologue, Hermann's strenght
> would
> > > prevail over Bjorn aerobic capacities.
> >
> > Strength is irrelevant even in an event as short as a prologue.
> >
> > Except for some track events, cycling is a predominantly aerobic sport -
> I'd
> > therefore bet on the guy with the VO2max of >90 mL/min/kg.
> >
> > Andy Coggan
> >
> >
>
>
>
Andy Coggan
> Keep the flames to yourself. I'm not talking about weight lifting strength
> here. I'm talking about strong, powerful cyclists. Notice I said can - I
did
> not say will or would.
>
> necessarily allow a cyclist with superior aerobic capacity to blow away a
> cyclist with a lower aerobic capacity but superior strength. Were the time
> trial in question of full stage length I wouldn't even bother to make a
> comment like that.
I don't know what the heck you mean by "strength" in this context, but your
use of the word certainly doesn't conform to any scientifically valid
definition of the term.
Strength (n): the force generating capacity of a muscle or muscle group.
Andy Coggan
Bikerecker
>Miguel Indurain and Lance Armstrong are 2 cyclists who regularly finish in
>the top 3 of the TdF prologue.
What, they don't have strong legs, dumbass?
DH skiiers don't have aerobic capacity, dumbass?
Robert Chung
"Mary Malmros" <mal...@shore.net> wrote in message
news:gp7znjz...@nautilus.shore.net...
> "Robert Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> writes:
>
> > Top poster "Aaron Daniel" <ada...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:aYYLa.201143$jp.53...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> > > I don't see that information being put forth. If you have information
to
> > > counter what I've put forth please do.
> >
> > Not to put too fine a point on it, but since your understanding in this
area
> > is stretched thin how would you know?
>
> He'd know because you'd condescend to point out exactly what posters
> and posts you're talking about.
>
> And before you rip into me too, go look at the Newsgroups line. We
> don't all know the members of your li'l club.
First, you think I ripped into him? My, my. Aren't we sensitive. I suggested
that he reconsider and re-evaluate, especially in light of his admission
that he had exceeded his level of understanding. I never called him a
dumbass.
Second, you think I didn't notice the ng line? Of course I did, which is why
I didn't call him a dumbass, though it's kind of dumbass to try to lecture
cyclists on cycling when one's usual haunts are rec.skiing.alpine and
alt.autos.audi.
Third, why would I point out exactly which posters and posts? You're saying
that only if he (and you) knew that there really were experts in the
conversation that he would back down? Yow. That's a characteristic that
should sort of make you wonder. The point in usenet is that you never know
who you're talking to so it's not a good idea to carry a chip on your
shoulder. Aaron's sin wasn't ignorance, it was hubris, and his dumbassedness
wasn't because he was wrong, it was because he was adamantly wrong in an
area in which he was unknowledgable *while knowing he was unknowledgable.*
Who does he think he is, George W.?
BTW, none of the three guys I referenced above think that Maier couldn't do
well in the prologue if he were motivated to do so. They just think (and
they'd be correct) that if he does well it is because of his aerobic
capability, not because of "strength."
Poachise
>
> Top poster "Aaron Daniel" <ada...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:aYYLa.201143$jp.53...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
> > I don't see that information being put forth. If you have
information to
> > counter what I've put forth please do.
>
> Not to put too fine a point on it, but since your understanding in
this area
> is stretched thin how would you know?
Oh dear. Perhaps you were unaware that this is usenet and your
silly, made-up credentials don't mean anything here.
>
> FWIW, contributors to this thread have included: 1) a
widely-published PhD
> in exercise physiology who specializes in time trials, has studied
elite
> cyclists and their performances, and is probably working on what
will be
> *the* book on cycling power;
Why should we believe a PhD? They are frequently dead wrong, you
know.
> 2) a guy who has held the US championship
> jersey in the pursuit (and not just once); and
Well, if he asks nicely I'll not only let him *hold* my championship
undershorts, I'll let him *wash* them too!
> 3) a guy who's been in about
> 600 races. (There are others in this thread whose experiences are
> considerable -- it's just that I don't know their bona fides off
the top of
> my head).
I'm sorry that you all have such boring taste in sports. But
doing the same thing over and over again doesn't make you an
expert, it just makes you a dull, uninteresting child.
> If you think that good and accurate information hasn't been put
> forth in this thread, then I'd suggest you reconsider.
>
I'd posit that perhaps you bicycle racing boys should be debating
whether there is a hyphen in "anal-retentive".
-P
Kurgan Gringioni
>
> Second, you think I didn't notice the ng line? Of course I did, which is
why
> I didn't call him a dumbass, though it's kind of dumbass to try to lecture
> cyclists on cycling when one's usual haunts are rec.skiing.alpine and
> alt.autos.audi.
Come on Robert. You and Nev are ruining our fun - it's good when the skiers
try to lecture us about cycling.
Kurgan Gringioni
"Bikerecker" <biker...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030630220116...@mb-m12.aol.com...
Dumbass -
What is the limiting factor in a TdF prologue?
Leg strength or aerobic capacity?
BTW, have you ever seen LANCE's leg press schedule in winter? He doesn't use
that much weight (not surprisingly).
Robert Chung
>
> "Robert Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:3f011afb$0$4628$626a...@news.free.fr...
> >
> > cycling when one's usual haunts are rec.skiing.alpine and
> > alt.autos.audi.
>
> Come on Robert. You and Nev are ruining our fun - it's good when the
> skiers try to lecture us about cycling.
What about the Audi drivers?
Andy Coggan
> >Miguel Indurain and Lance Armstrong are 2 cyclists who regularly finish
in
> >the top 3 of the TdF prologue.
>
> What, they don't have strong legs, dumbass?
Big Mig is a big guy, but I'll bet he's no stronger than the average man his
size buying clothes at the Big-N-Tall shop.
Armstrong is pretty average in size, and so likely quite average in
strength.
Strength is not a component of endurance cycling performance.
> DH skiiers don't have aerobic capacity, dumbass?
That they do...one study I've read reported a VO2max of ~65 mL/min/kg,
although I don't recall the level of the competitors. Even so, I'm still
betting on Dahlie (sp?), with his VO2max of >90 mL/min/kg...you just can't
make up for that big of a deficit in aerobic power output via other
mechanisms in a race the length of the typical prologue.
Andy Coggan
Carl Sundquist
"Andy Coggan" <aco...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> Even so, I'm still
> betting on Dahlie (sp?), with his VO2max of >90 mL/min/kg...you just can't
> make up for that big of a deficit in aerobic power output via other
> mechanisms in a race the length of the typical prologue.
>
How much of Dahlie's oxygen uptake is due to using his upper body to propel
himself?
Nev Shea
> "Robert Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> writes:
>
>> Top poster "Aaron Daniel" <ada...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:aYYLa.201143$jp.53...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>> > I don't see that information being put forth. If you have
>> > information to counter what I've put forth please do.
>>
>> Not to put too fine a point on it, but since your understanding in
>> this area is stretched thin how would you know?
>
> He'd know because you'd condescend to point out exactly what posters
> and posts you're talking about.
>
> And before you rip into me too, go look at the Newsgroups line. We
> don't all know the members of your li'l club.
Thank you for condescending to our lil club by ripping into Robert with
your first post here in 5 years. Perhaps you would be so kind to
enlighten us more now by lecturing us about the NG etiquette of lurking,
or at least understanding the topic you want to post about.
Thank you so much, Ms Manners
NS
Nev Shea
> "Robert Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> writes:
>
>> Top poster "Aaron Daniel" <ada...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
>> news:aYYLa.201143$jp.53...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>> > I don't see that information being put forth. If you have
>> > information to counter what I've put forth please do.
>>
>> Not to put too fine a point on it, but since your understanding in
>> this area is stretched thin how would you know?
>
> He'd know because you'd condescend to point out exactly what posters
> and posts you're talking about.
>
> And before you rip into me too, go look at the Newsgroups line. We
> don't all know the members of your li'l club.
Thank you for condescending to our lil club by ripping into Robert.
MoonMan
Shea typed:
before you make a total prat of yourself you might do as Mary suggested and
look at the newsgroups line!
--
Chris *<:-)
Downhill Good, Uphill BAD!
Java Man
says...
certainly use a lecture on manners. Rec.skiing.alpine, the only
newsgroup approved by Emily Post, is definitely the place to visit if
you want to learn the finer points of polite, respectful debate. ;-)
Rick
Mike Speegle
> You're may be correct in your analysis of cycling topics, but you
> could certainly use a lecture on manners. Rec.skiing.alpine, the only
> newsgroup approved by Emily Post, is definitely the place to visit if
> you want to learn the finer points of polite, respectful debate. ;-)
KEYBOARD!!!
--
Mike
________________________________________________________
"Colorado Ski Country, USA" Come often, Ski hard,
Spend *lots* of money, Then leave as quickly as you can.
Rec.Skiing.Alpine.Moderated is up and working! Join in!
Fred Marx
MoonMan
> god there's nothing worse than skiiers in july...
>
cycle races along the roads on my way to a ski race? what time do you people
start on a Sunday morning?
MoonMan
cycle races along the roads on my way to a ski race?
What time do you cyclists start on a Sunday morning?
Kurgan Gringioni
Don't be so polite. Show her the true rbr.
Mary, you have your head up your ass.
have a nice day,
K. Gringioni
heather halvorson
the way i read that post is ns the prat is asking mm to hold herself and
ad to the same standard of behavior that she is expecting from rc. it's
got nothing to do with not knowing this thread is cross posted.
i could be wrong, but still, i hth..
hh
ps. i never thought ad was acting like a dumbass myself, so no need to
defend him to me, ok?
Mike Speegle
> god there's nothing worse than skiiers in july...
Fuckin' A. ;-)
Top Sirloin
<kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Aaron Daniel" <ada...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:PcWLa.201013$jp.53...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>> Both?
>
>
>
>How about aerobic capacity.
>
>
>Compare their BMI to those with the ultimate leg strength: powerlifters. How
>would powerlifters do in a prologue?
Get me in the Tour and we can find out. :-)
--
Scott Johnson
"Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are
why they only open the top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen
Mary Malmros
Lurking? Me? Fair enough. That means that you, Robert, and all of
y'all bike types are lurkers here on rec.skiing.alpine. So, since
I've committed the deplorable sin of forgetting my lecture notes on
the NG etiquette of lurking, perhaps you lurkers could tell me all
about it.
scottabe
mal...@shore.net wrote on 7/1/03 9:38 AM:
> Nev Shea <spam...@garbage.net> writes:
>
>> Mary Malmros <mal...@shore.net> wrote in
>> news:gp7znjz...@nautilus.shore.net:
>>
>>> "Robert Chung" <inv...@nospam.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Top poster "Aaron Daniel" <ada...@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:aYYLa.201143$jp.53...@twister.southeast.rr.com...
>>>>> I don't see that information being put forth. If you have
>>>>> information to counter what I've put forth please do.
>>>>
>>>> Not to put too fine a point on it, but since your understanding in
>>>> this area is stretched thin how would you know?
>>>
>>> He'd know because you'd condescend to point out exactly what posters
>>> and posts you're talking about.
>>>
>>> And before you rip into me too, go look at the Newsgroups line. We
>>> don't all know the members of your li'l club.
>>
>> Thank you for condescending to our lil club by ripping into Robert.
>> Perhaps you would be so kind to
>> enlighten us more now by lecturing us about the NG etiquette of
>> lurking,
>
> Lurking? Me? Fair enough. That means that you, Robert, and all of
> y'all bike types are lurkers here on rec.skiing.alpine. So, since
> I've committed the deplorable sin of forgetting my lecture notes on
> the NG etiquette of lurking, perhaps you lurkers could tell me all
> about it.
I'm more than happy to discuss newsgroup etiquette. For example, this vile
liar has smeared me on several occasions, alleging that I was a threat to
her. No matter that I've NEVER been in her state, I live three thousand
miles away, and I never threatened her in anyway, unless exposing her as a
vicious, unprincipled liar is a threat.
Let's discuss Mary Malmros's participation in an ongoing criminal conspiracy
that has threatened MY life, committed scores of felonies, and smeared me
with the grossest defamations.
Fair enough?
scottabe
mikes...@netscape.net wrote on 7/1/03 8:44 AM:
> In news:Fred Marx <Gre...@Chainrings.com> typed:
>> god there's nothing worse than skiiers in july...
>
> Fuckin' A. ;-)
There is something worse than skiers in July.
Skiers who hang out on rsa. The most amoral, unethical group of scumbags,
liars, criminals, and psychopaths short of auk. Come to think of it,
several of them have been known to hang out there, too.
Java Man
kgringioni.rem...@hotmail.com says...
Rick
Andy Coggan
news:vg30fll...@corp.supernews.com...
When he's actually using his upper body, the answer would be "some".
However, I would be surprised if he could not achieve a true VO2max while
running uphill on a treadmill and not using his arms (and for all we know,
that's how it was measured).
Specificity is of course important, but in this case we're comparing a skier
(alpine) to a skier (cross-country), both of whom undoubtly train a lot by
cycling but do not compete in the sport - I'd therefore *still* bet on
Dahlie, even if he couldn't achieve a true VO2max while cycling.
Andy Coggan
Kyle Legate
>
> Wust chatted with Juan Fernandez, the Festina directeur sportif, and
> decided it was a gamble worth taking. He would begin the time trial on
> his normal Specialized road bike instead of his low-profile machine
> and attack the climb as quickly as possible.
>
Didn't Frankie Andreau have the same idea, but came up just a little bit
short?
Andy Coggan
news:a593gvoidp207unil...@4ax.com...
> >Compare their BMI to those with the ultimate leg strength: powerlifters.
How
> >would powerlifters do in a prologue?
>
> Get me in the Tour and we can find out. :-)
No need, we can predict the results:
You'd suck.
If you had the ability to do really well in the prologue, then you wouldn't
need any help getting into the TdF.
Andy Coggan