What to do if there's a bear in camp while we're sleeping?
JohnB
Here's a quick question.
Last weekend the Wife, Kid and I were asleep in our tent in a
campground in the Rockies.
The Wife woke me about 2am saying she heard an animal outside of our
tent.
I listened for a minute and, sure enough, I heard some grunting
sounds. They were pretty quiet but definite.
I grabbed my trusty Sog Seal Knife 2000 and began hoping for the lucky
shot I'd need to kill the animal if it were to attack. The wife won't
allow a gun, but that's for another discussion.
I waited awhile and heard it again.
Then nothing.
Eventually I got out of the tent and looked around. I saw nothing.
So we went to the pit toilet.
On the way back we heard it again coming from the adjacent campsite.
But we saw nothing.
We kept listening and I noticed that, every time I heard it it came
from the same direction; that other campsite. That meant that it
wasn't an animal as an animal on the prowl would not stay stationary.
So we went back to sleep.
We were awakened about 7am by the people in that campsite (yes, the
same people that awakened me at 11pm the night before with their
partying; Bastards!).
We heard them loud and clear talking about the source of the noise...
One of the guys in their party was snoring!!
Unbelievable.
But, that got me to wondering, assuming that we in the tent are not
sleeping in clothing that we wore to cook in and therefore shouldn't
smell TOO delicious, what should our actions be if there is a bear
perusing our campsite at night? Should we be quiet or should we make
it obvious that we're there? I'm sure the bear knows that we're there
so any noise would only serve to let him/her know our disposition;
passive or aggressive, etc.
Any thoughts?
Thanks.
JB
pmh
I'm sure the bear knows that we're there
> so any noise would only serve to let him/her know our disposition;
> passive or aggressive, etc.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks.
> JB
Generally, any loud noise or sudden movement that's not seen as
threatening will disappear a black bear, often faster than you know.
Obvious sounds & human scent will deter most grizzlies but not all. A
gunshot into the ground will usually turn the trick. I have a tiny
Raven .25 that makes a helluva noise when fired into the ground. Only
needed it once.
Pete H
Roarmeister
wrote:
>But, that got me to wondering, assuming that we in the tent are not
>sleeping in clothing that we wore to cook in and therefore shouldn't
>smell TOO delicious, what should our actions be if there is a bear
>perusing our campsite at night? Should we be quiet or should we make
>it obvious that we're there? I'm sure the bear knows that we're there
>so any noise would only serve to let him/her know our disposition;
>passive or aggressive, etc.
>
>Any thoughts?
Getcha camera out and snap away...
psistor...@cs.com
that emit a high pitched siren when the cord/pin is pulled. I plan to
use it with some fishing line to set up a circular tripwire around my
tent while I sleep.
I carry around one of those big cans of pepper spray, but I need to
be up and ready in order to use it. I sleep really heavy sometimes, so
I figure that the siren will at least wake me up and hopefully scare
off the bear at the same time.
y_p_w
> But, that got me to wondering, assuming that we in the tent are not
> sleeping in clothing that we wore to cook in and therefore shouldn't
> smell TOO delicious, what should our actions be if there is a bear
> perusing our campsite at night? Should we be quiet or should we make
> it obvious that we're there? I'm sure the bear knows that we're there
> so any noise would only serve to let him/her know our disposition;
> passive or aggressive, etc.
You didn't say where you were camping in the Rockies. There are only
a few areas (parts of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Canada) with grizzly
bears, and they require a completely different approach. Mostly
people are dealing with American black bears (which can be many
different colors). Here's Yellowstone's info on bears (where there
are grizzlies):
http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/bearenc.htm
http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/backcountryhiking.htm
Most of the responses here were that black bears are almost always non-
agressive and easily scared off. When they raid a campsite, all
they're usually interested in is an opportunistic chance to grab
food. Most recommend yelling and banging pots and pans. If there is
a bear in your campsite, don't worry about waking up your neighbors.
I've been woken up by people scaring off bears, and I know it's for
the benefit of the bears (to discourage them) and the safety of the
campers. Of course proper food storage is a must. I understand they
tend to avoid "human smell", but if you've got a steak or cooler in
your tent, they might not care.
Be careful where you take bear pepper spray. They're considered
"weapons" and may be prohibited/limited if you're on National Park
Service land, unless the superintendent has approved its carrying.
You can use it in Yellowstone or Grand Teton.
JohnB
> You didn't say where you were camping in the Rockies. There are only
> a few areas (parts of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Canada) with grizzly
> bears, and they require a completely different approach. Mostly
> people are dealing with American black bears (which can be many
> different colors).
Good point. We were at Echo Lake in the Rockies just west of Denver
so I'm sure we're dealing with black bears.
> Of course proper food storage is a must. I understand they
> tend to avoid "human smell",
That was my understanding.
> but if you've got a steak or cooler in your tent, they might not care.
All of our food and cooking utensils are stored in a locked vehicle
when car camping and hung between trees when backpacking.
So, I guess this raises another question in my mind.
They say not to sleep in the clothing that you wore when cooking.
I wonder if this applies to undergarments as well?
I could see wearing long underwear under clothing in the evening when
it's chilly and dinner time.
I wonder if I just leave the outerwear in the car and sleep in the
aforementioned long undies if there would be enough food smell on them
to attract bears.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
JB
y_p_w
> On Aug 31, 9:46 am, y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > You didn't say where you were camping in the Rockies. There are only
> > a few areas (parts of Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Canada) with grizzly
> > bears, and they require a completely different approach. Mostly
> > people are dealing with American black bears (which can be many
> > different colors).
>
> Good point. We were at Echo Lake in the Rockies just west of Denver
> so I'm sure we're dealing with black bears.
Yep. Any grizzlies that close to large human populations were
probably hunted out of existence years ago. I heard that they were
grizzlies in San Francisco as late as the early 1900's.
> > Of course proper food storage is a must. I understand they
> > tend to avoid "human smell",
>
> That was my understanding.
>
> > but if you've got a steak or cooler in your tent, they might not care.
>
> All of our food and cooking utensils are stored in a locked vehicle
> when car camping and hung between trees when backpacking.
I've camped and backpacked in the Sierras. Those black bears are a
totally different breed of food thief. Yosemite bears are among the
most notorious because mother bears have passed on years of skills in
raiding campsites and breaking into cars. I was rather shocked when I
did visit the Rockies (Yellowstone/Grand Teton) last year and was told
that food could be stored in the trunk. In the Sierras, bear boxes
are at every developed campsite (they're common in the Rockies,
right?), and bear canisters have become mandatory in many popular
backpacking areas, and highly recommended even where food hangs are
legal.
> So, I guess this raises another question in my mind.
> They say not to sleep in the clothing that you wore when cooking.
> I wonder if this applies to undergarments as well?
> I could see wearing long underwear under clothing in the evening when
> it's chilly and dinner time.
> I wonder if I just leave the outerwear in the car and sleep in the
> aforementioned long undies if there would be enough food smell on them
> to attract bears.
I wouldn't worry about underwear. I'm guessing you probably brush
your teeth with a mint-flavored toothpaste, and that shouldn't be a
problem. The real problem is if you have something reeking of food
that overwhelms your human smell. It does depend on how smelly the
food is. There's a difference between boiling water to make instant
oatmeal and frying bacon or cooking with olive oil.
y_p_w
> On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:26:20 -0700, JohnB <butchusene...@totc.biz>
Yosemite NP backcountry:
http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crjmbearkh1.jpg
http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crjmbear0xe7.jpg
Redwood Mountain Grove at Kings Canyon NP:
http://img247.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rcbears0jo9.jpg
http://img75.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rcbears1tr1.jpg
I saw another juvenile (jet black) bear standing on a rock at the
Yosemite Valley backpackers campground. I guess it smelled breakfast
being cooked. I did go for my camera (as did about four others), but
it left before we had a chance. I guess it saw 30 pairs of eyes
staring at it and though that a morning food raid wasn't going to work
in that instance.
Puppet_Sock
[what to do about a bear in camp]
Some time ago I camped in a place where a bear had made
life interesting in the camp the previous night. Those who
were just leaving the tent pads were saying they slept little,
as a bear had found the food vault, and spent hours trying
to get into it. This was a steel box about 1.5 yards cubical,
with a catch on the door. The bear could smell the food
inside. He was able to bat the box onto the ground and
push it around. But he couldn't get it open. This caused
him to make loud frustrated sounds for several hours.
Then he left. Folks got little sleep. But the bear seemed
to take no interest in the tents.
It was lots of fun chatting to folks who were freaked by it.
One guy I met on the trail practically wet himself when
I mentioned a bear in the area.
"Have you seen any bear sign?" I said. "There was a
bear just over at the camp last night."
"No" he says. "No sign at all. Really? A Bear?"
"Yep" I say. And, looking at a freshly shredded
stump just by the trail I say "that's bear sign."
And noticing some over-turned rocks with digging
marks by them I say "That's more."
The guy got all agitated and walk off. Heh heh.
City folk.
Socks
Floyd L. Davidson
>So, I guess this raises another question in my mind.
>They say not to sleep in the clothing that you wore when cooking.
>I wonder if this applies to undergarments as well?
>I could see wearing long underwear under clothing in the evening when
>it's chilly and dinner time.
>I wonder if I just leave the outerwear in the car and sleep in the
>aforementioned long undies if there would be enough food smell on them
>to attract bears.
>Any thoughts?
Yeah. Let me tell you a story that a fellow told me
with a bit of emotion a couple years ago. A couple who
were friends of his had been recently attacked and
killed by a brown bear (grizzly) in the Arctic National
Wildlife Refuge, and we were discussing the scuttlebutt
on whether this fellow and his wife had kept a "clean"
camp. The newspapers said they were meticulous, this
guy said no they were not and he knew it because he'd
camped with them. They refused to be as fanatic about
it as he was. He described to me why he was fanatic
about a "clean" camp.
Seems he'd once loaned a sleeping bag to someone, and
they had accidentally spilled a bucket of filleted fish
on it. Yeck, fish slime all over it. So they washed it
as good as they could, and sent it to the cleaners for
dry cleaning before returning it. When he got it back,
he sent it to get dry cleaned too, before he found out
they already had. So this sleeping bag with fish slime
on it was dry cleaned twice, independently.
Several weeks later he as camping and a bear walked into
camp. It slowly walked into camp, but at one point just
suddenly turned on one tend and in one second it ripped
a hole in the tent grabbed just one thing, and ripped it
to shreds. That sleeping bag.
Coulda been your long underwear, with you in them, just
as easily, eh?
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) fl...@apaflo.com
Bruce in Alaska
JohnB <butchu...@totc.biz> wrote:
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks.
> JB
>
It really depends on just "What" animal is really outside your tent?
If it was a Griz, or a Coastal Brownie, you would be looking REALLY
Foolish standing outside your tent, in your Longjohns, with nothing but
that SOG Seal Knife 2000 in your hand, and the Bear had "You for Dinner"
on his Mind. Although mostly, he would have already munched you, BEFORE
you even got out of your tent, if that was his intention.
A Black Bear of the usual type, will not hang around long, if you just
make yourself seem "Bigger and Meaner" than he is, by making Lots of
Noise and Waving your Arms above your head, while doing it. Startle
works REALLY Well on all but the most brazen Black Bears. Just keep
in mind, even a SMALL Black Bear is WAY Stonger, and has better natural
weapons, than you, and if it comes to a fight, YOU likely are going to
Lose, and even if you tie, your still in a "World of Hurt".
If it was a Moose, nosing around to see "Whats go'en on", your more than
likely to get Stomped, and you would have been better off just to stay
quiet inside your tent. Startle, doesn't work on Moose very well, and
in some cases actually "Ticks'em Off".
There are a whole passel of Critters that live out in the wild, and some
are just plain Nasty, when it come to humans on their ground. Fortunatly
they avoid humans, as much as possible, and the likelyhood of you and
your family meeting them in a CampGround is about as rare, as someone
actually getting Munched, by one of them.
I live out in the Alaskan Bush, and have all of the above, as "Close
Neighbors", (within 10 Sq Miles) and don't feel the need to travel
around "Armed to the Teeth", and Pepper Spray is something, we locals
only Joke about, because we have NEVER seen ANYONE actually use it, in
any effective way, on ANY animal.
If you are worried about your Safety, out in the bush, you have two
choices:
1. Stay Home, and be safe and snug in your bed....
2. Play the Odds, and go out, and enjoy the experience. You have a much
higher chance of being injured in your car, driving to and from the
wilderness, than having an encounted with a Nasty Critter.
I, for one, am alot more concerened about being CarJacked or Mugged by
a Druggie, while on vacation in the "Flatlands", than strolling around
my "Neighborhood", (100 Sq Miles) with our local Critters.
Bruce in alaska
--
add a <2> before @
Chick Tower
> I recently bought one of those pocket-sized attack/rape type alarms that
> emit a high pitched siren when the cord/pin is pulled. I plan to use it
> with some fishing line to set up a circular tripwire around my tent while
> I sleep.
Gawd, those skunks, racoons, and mice are going to have fun watching you
trying to put that pin back in the alarm in the dark. :)
--
Chick Tower
For e-mail: rbc DOT sent DOT towerboy AT xoxy DOT net
Puppet_Sock
[snip]
> If it was a Moose, nosing around to see "Whats go'en on", your more than
> likely to get Stomped, and you would have been better off just to stay
> quiet inside your tent. Startle, doesn't work on Moose very well, and
> in some cases actually "Ticks'em Off".
I don't mess with moose. They seem grumpy. Maybe
they've got low blood sugar from all the leafy stuff
they eat or something. Maybe what they need is
a good cup of coffee and a couple big sugary donuts.
Socks
re...@pobox.com
> I was rather shocked when I
> did visit the Rockies (Yellowstone/Grand Teton) last year and was told
> that food could be stored in the trunk. In the Sierras, bear boxes
> are at every developed campsite (they're common in the Rockies,
I was also surprised visiting Glacier NP that I was supposed to store
food in the trunk. I was mildly chastised by a ranger for leaving my
Garcie bearproof cannister out on the picnic table. In Yosemite you
get chastised for doing the reverse. The reason is that in Glacier
they don't want food in the campsites when you're not around providing
temptation to the grizzlies.
John Reece
Definitely not an Intel spokesman
rick++
I think that as the last time my heartbeat was over 200
when all the bears walked around all night.
el...@no.spam
Roarmeister <Ebnezr...@argfpncr.arg> wrote:
>Getcha camera out and snap away...
Ok:
http://yosemitephotos.net/main.php?g2_itemId=5184
http://yosemitephotos.net/main.php?g2_itemId=5179
http://www.cafepress.com/eeekster.157201527
y_p_w
While in Yosemite or Sequoia/Kings Canyon I was leaving my bear
canister in the bear box instead of my car. I even stuffed my entire
backpack in the bear box at the Yosemite Valley backpackers'
campground. I figured it was easier than unloading everything
carefully like I would in the backcountry.
Don't most campsites in bear country (even those without car break-in
problems) have bear boxes? I was up at Lassen Volcanic NP in the
Cascades a few times in the last month. They don't have car break-ins
there but I saw plenty of bear boxes driving past campsites.
Eugene Miya
y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Don't most campsites in bear country (even those without car break-in
>problems) have bear boxes?
No. That would cost $$.
>Cascades a few times in the last month. They don't have car break-ins
>there but I saw plenty of bear boxes driving past campsites.
--
y_p_w
> In article <1189560737.917340.129...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Don't most campsites in bear country (even those without car break-in
> >problems) have bear boxes?
>
> No. That would cost $$.
OK - I did a little more checking, and Yellowstone campgrounds have
limited numbers of bear boxes for use by frontcountry backpackers,
bicyclists, and motorcycle riders, but not typically enough for every
camper. I've seen metal boxes where saddlebags would typically go.
Don't know if they're bear resistant, or if anyone wants to tempt a
bear to knock over their motorcycle trying to open the box.
Here's a travel log by a bicyclist who mentions where there were bear
boxes.
http://cycletourist.com/yellowstone.php
Frankly - some of the bear boxes I've seen were rather sad looking.
At Stony Creek in Sequoia NF, the boxes looked jury-rigged. They had
additional slide latches and a big honking cotter pin as a backup. I
used an inexpensive carbiner-type link instead. In Yosemite I saw
mostly those rod-type ones, and ended up pinching skin several times
closing those things. I liked the permanently attached key for a
square nut that I saw in Tahoe.
Eugene Miya
y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Sep 12, 3:08 pm, eug...@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya) wrote:
>> In article <1189560737.917340.129...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>> y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >Don't most campsites in bear country (even those without car break-in
>> >problems) have bear boxes?
>>
>> No. That would cost $$.
>
>OK - I did a little more checking, and Yellowstone campgrounds have
>limited numbers of bear boxes for use by frontcountry backpackers,
>bicyclists, and motorcycle riders, but not typically enough for every
>camper. I've seen metal boxes where saddlebags would typically go.
>Don't know if they're bear resistant, or if anyone wants to tempt a
>bear to knock over their motorcycle trying to open the box.
Boxes are typically found in high use, high impact bear/people areas
and mostly car camping. There's a big difference from a camp site
and a camp ground (which is one argument used when Ralph used to create
rec.outdoors.camping (RVs) and the other various alt.rec.*rv* sub
groups.
A small number of camp sites away from roads have bear boxes (I've
certainly seen them) in Nationals Parks, but National Parks make up a
smaller percentage of recreational lands. Cables are still common
in some areas. The National Forests only have boxes in limited numbers
of car camp grounds that I've seen (many having none). CA State Parks
and campgrounds have boxes in some cases (more so than NFs).
>bear boxes.
>yellowstone.php
Park.
>Frankly - some of the bear boxes I've seen were rather sad looking.
Yeah I think I know what you mean.
I think they aren't really bear boxes more for small animals like
squirrels and things.
>At Stony Creek in Sequoia NF, the boxes looked jury-rigged. They had
>additional slide latches and a big honking cotter pin as a backup. I
>used an inexpensive carbiner-type link instead. In Yosemite I saw
>mostly those rod-type ones, and ended up pinching skin several times
>closing those things. I liked the permanently attached key for a
>square nut that I saw in Tahoe.
Well making this stuff is a business as people have commented that even
Garcia Machine cylinders aren't cheapr problem (really people moving
into bear areas) is minor from the recreational standpoint. It's far
bigger for people who live in bear areas, and bears merely end up losing.
Oh, and by the way, which net.species do you wish to declare for yourself?
--
Eugene Miya
<1188516380....@r23g2000prd.googlegroups.com>, JohnB
<butchu...@totc.biz> graced the world with this thought:
>the Wife, Kid and I were asleep in our tent
Depends which part of the Rockies and what bear species.
>I grabbed my trusty Sog Seal Knife 2000 and began hoping for the lucky
>shot I'd need to kill the animal if it were to attack. The wife won't
>allow a gun, but that's for another discussion.
>But we saw nothing.
...
>from the same direction; that other campsite.
It would be dumb to fire, with limited ammo, at anything less than a
positively sighted hostile target. Watson noted once that he had
a hiking partner who once did that with a small caliber pistol.
This is not going to be a problem with most black bears in most of the
Rocky Mtns. It would be problematic in a grizzly area.
A knife or a fire arm is of limited use. An Alaskan couple in their 60s
was attacked while they slept near Barter Island by a grizzly, and
they had either a rifle or a shotgun with slugs. They both died and a
party had to go out and find that individual girzzly and kill it.
You'd have to some one stand guard and sleep in shifts.
And people have to assume minimum competence and practice on
targets like this, especially in the dark.
Having a kid along presents it own problems. This is in part why
animal predators go after the especially young and old.
>So we went back to sleep.
>We were awakened about 7am by the people in that campsite (yes, the
>same people that awakened me at 11pm the night before with their
>partying; Bastards!).
Let bear loose on them.
>But, that got me to wondering, assuming that we in the tent are not
>sleeping in clothing that we wore to cook in and therefore shouldn't
>smell TOO delicious, what should our actions be if there is a bear
>perusing our campsite at night? Should we be quiet or should we make
>it obvious that we're there? I'm sure the bear knows that we're there
Make presence known typically by noise. The NPS used to say to "throw
rocks" until a Boy Scout troop killed an adolescent bear. You can still
throw rocks, you just have to be prepared for the small potential of a
little court time declaring accidental death/self-defense.
Smell transfered to clothing is mostly highly overrated.
--
y_p_w
That's not exactly what I meant. The boxes were extremely sturdy
steel, but looked to be 10-15 years old with lots of scratches. They
had those L-shaped metal parts that met at the door edge with holes
where a carabiner or padlock could be attached. I'm not sure how to
describe the other latch, but it was a large version of those latches
you might see on a bathroom or screen door. They were riveted on as a
post-manufacture modification. Now that I researched it, it's
sometimes called a "slide bolt latch". These were the kind that
rotated into a couple of notches at the end. I usually associate this
kind of latch with a door where someone closes it from the inside.
The one I used in the Yosemite backpackers campground certainly didn't
keep out the mice. I found chew marks on my carboard storage box, but
strangely all my food was intact.
> >At Stony Creek in Sequoia NF, the boxes looked jury-rigged. They had
> >additional slide latches and a big honking cotter pin as a backup. I
> >used an inexpensive carbiner-type link instead. In Yosemite I saw
> >mostly those rod-type ones, and ended up pinching skin several times
> >closing those things. I liked the permanently attached key for a
> >square nut that I saw in Tahoe.
>
> Well making this stuff is a business as people have commented that even
> Garcia Machine cylinders aren't cheapr problem (really people moving
> into bear areas) is minor from the recreational standpoint. It's far
> bigger for people who live in bear areas, and bears merely end up losing.
The same manufacturers of these bear resistant boxes and trash cans do
seem to target a good deal of their sales towards the residential
user.
http://www.bearsaver.com/ResidentialEnclosure.htm
> Oh, and by the way, which net.species do you wish to declare for yourself?
Maybe I haven't figured out what that means yet.....
y_p_w
> Smell transfered to clothing is mostly highly overrated.
While doing my laundry in bear country (Lodgepole Village - Sequoia
NP) I noted that several others (some might have been campers) were
freely using heavily perfumed laundry detergent, while I specifically
bought some unscented detergent while I was in Fresno. It's probably
not that big a deal (as far as as bears go), and I don't like smelling
"outdoor fresh" anyways. I'm not sure how much an attractant perfumes
are to bears in the first place, but I have heard of the NPS
recommending the use of unscented detergents/soaps/deodorants/shampoos/
etc in bear areas whenever possible.
When I was busy trying to get the (extremely smelly) pine sap off my
jacket, a fellow camper in Little Yosemite Valley noted that bears can
have all the pine sap they want. Heck - I've heard of pine oil used
as a deterrent to bears sleeping in foundations.
Now if I transferred some particularly odoriferous barbecue sauce to
my jacket, I'd try to remove as much of it as possible (even wash out
the spot) before placing it in my tent.
Eugene Miya
> which net.species do you wish to declare for yourself?
y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe I haven't figured out what that means yet.....
When you figure that out, let us know.
--
Eugene Miya
y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>While doing my laundry in bear country (Lodgepole Village - Sequoia
>NP)
I know this context.
>I noted that several others (some might have been campers) were
>freely using heavily perfumed laundry detergent, while I specifically
>bought some unscented detergent while I was in Fresno. It's probably
>not that big a deal (as far as as bears go), and I don't like smelling
>"outdoor fresh" anyways. I'm not sure how much an attractant perfumes
>are to bears in the first place, but I have heard of the NPS
>recommending the use of unscented detergents/soaps/deodorants/shampoos/
>etc in bear areas whenever possible.
Yeah, that's the general advice given. They are intelligent and curious.
It's not necessarily whether it smells like food or not.
>When I was busy trying to get the (extremely smelly) pine sap off my
>jacket, a fellow camper in Little Yosemite Valley noted that bears can
>have all the pine sap they want. Heck - I've heard of pine oil used
>as a deterrent to bears sleeping in foundations.
Not as a deterrent but as a screen. No one specifically encourages that.
>Now if I transferred some particularly odoriferous barbecue sauce to
>my jacket, I'd try to remove as much of it as possible (even wash out
>the spot) before placing it in my tent.
Probably a good idea.
--
y_p_w
> >> Smell transfered to clothing is mostly highly overrated.
> y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >While doing my laundry in bear country (Lodgepole Village - Sequoia
> >NP)
>
> I know this context.
>
> >I noted that several others (some might have been campers) were
> >freely using heavily perfumed laundry detergent, while I specifically
> >bought some unscented detergent while I was in Fresno. It's probably
> >not that big a deal (as far as as bears go), and I don't like smelling
> >"outdoor fresh" anyways. I'm not sure how much an attractant perfumes
> >are to bears in the first place, but I have heard of the NPS
> >recommending the use of unscented detergents/soaps/deodorants/shampoos/
> >etc in bear areas whenever possible.
>
> Yeah, that's the general advice given. They are intelligent and curious.
> It's not necessarily whether it smells like food or not.
It got to the point where I was supposed to put unscented moist
towelettes in my bear canister. I didn't think it was a big deal, but
I complied.
> >When I was busy trying to get the (extremely smelly) pine sap off my
> >jacket, a fellow camper in Little Yosemite Valley noted that bears can
> >have all the pine sap they want. Heck - I've heard of pine oil used
> >as a deterrent to bears sleeping in foundations.
>
> Not as a deterrent but as a screen. No one specifically encourages that.
The following article says someone from the Bear League in Tahoe uses
Pine-Sol to "spoil" a known bear den under a house.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/12/24/MNGFHN5GD51.DTL
> >Now if I transferred some particularly odoriferous barbecue sauce to
> >my jacket, I'd try to remove as much of it as possible (even wash out
> >the spot) before placing it in my tent.
>
> Probably a good idea.
I know I smell like food, but it's a matter of degree.
Dan
the bear will not linger.
Then go back to sleep and awake in the morning with another adventure
story to tell the kids!
Dan
Lawrence Glickman
Absolute unmitigated bullshit.
If/when a bear, of any kind, attempts to come into your tent at NIGHT,
while you or someone else is inside, it is in PREDATOR MODE. It is
going to kill you, if you don't kill it.
Now that is the fact of the matter. Daytime is one thing, when a bear
moves in on you at NIGHT, it is HUNTING YOU. Act accordingly. BTW,
you can't outrun a bear.
Lg
psistor...@cs.com
camping trip. Get one that looks real mean so that it well scare away
any other bears that come into camp. lol
Although, that might not be a great idea if you are a forgetful
person and have a heart condition. 8O
Collideascope
wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Oct 2007 17:30:43 -0700, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Enjoy the time with nature, assured that your camp is clean enough that
> >the bear will not linger.
>
> >Then go back to sleep and awake in the morning with another adventure
> >story to tell the kids!
>
> >Dan
>
> Absolute unmitigated bullshit.
>
> If/when a bear, of any kind, attempts to come into your tent at NIGHT,
> while you or someone else is inside, it is in PREDATOR MODE. It is
> going to kill you, if you don't kill it.
Christ, take a course in reading comprehension, then get a fucking
clue ...
First off, the scenario described was not one of a bear attempting to
enter a tent at night, it was of hearing a bear in a campsite.
Second, if the bear is trying to get into a tent, it is almost
certainly attempt predation not upon occupants but upon the food the
tent occupants have left in a decidedly aromatic state. While
predation upon humans does happen, it is exceedingly rare. To state
categorically that an attempt of a bear to get into a tent means "It
is going to kill you, if you don't kill it" is mind-bogglingly
idiotic.
Your raving paranoia is your own problem and you're free to live in a
fantasy-world in which sleeping in the North American wilderness is
some sort of death-defying feat. But why don't you refrain from
pushing your inane delusions on the readers of this board?
Peter Clinch
> Christ, take a course in reading comprehension, then get a fucking
> clue ...
If he gets the latter he might be better able to reproduce, with
resulting slide in average IQs... ;-/
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Lawrence Glickman
Tell that to the Alaskan Wildlife Ranger who passed along this
information. He's only been doing his job for about 16 years, so what
the fsck would he know?
Lawrence Glickman
<p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote:
>Collideascope wrote:
>
>> Christ, take a course in reading comprehension, then get a fucking
>> clue ...
>
>If he gets the latter he might be better able to reproduce, with
>resulting slide in average IQs... ;-/
You're bear food. The only reason you haven't figured that out yet,
is because you're too fat to get out of your chair and venture into
the wilderness.
Lg
Lawrence Glickman
<collid...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Tell that to the Alaskan Wildlife Ranger who passed along this
information. He's only been doing his job for about 16 years, so what
the fsck would he know?
IT IS ALWAYS THE SAME WITH YOU PEOPLE! I won't waste my time with
you. If it doesn't fit into =your= idea, it isn't possible. I dont
care if YOU are mauled, in fact, I hope you are. this is a message
for those gullible enough to believe your bullshit, hoping that the
information might save their lives. As for you, one less of you would
be an improvement.
Lg
the Moderator
"Collideascope" <collid...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1193405421....@57g2000hsv.googlegroups.com...
Bears are unpredictable. Like people.
Floyd L. Davidson
Look kid, don't try to pass that crap off as something
an "Alaskan Wildlife Ranger", whatever that is, said.
--
Floyd L. Davidson <http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) fl...@apaflo.com
Bruce in Alaska
Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Tell that to the Alaskan Wildlife Ranger who passed along this
> information. He's only been doing his job for about 16 years, so what
> the fsck would he know?
>
>
> IT IS ALWAYS THE SAME WITH YOU PEOPLE! I won't waste my time with
> you. If it doesn't fit into =your= idea, it isn't possible. I dont
> care if YOU are mauled, in fact, I hope you are. this is a message
> for those gullible enough to believe your bullshit, hoping that the
> information might save their lives. As for you, one less of you would
> be an improvement.
>
> Lg
Alaska does NOT have "Wildlife Ranger"s. We have State Troopers, who are
tasked with Fish & Wildlife Enforcement. If your going to make stupid
statements, please at least get the "Titles" right, for your sites......
and if your going to make stupid statements, please define exactly which
genus of BEAR, your talking about, as Black, Brown, and Polar, run
very different software...... and react in very different ways to
simliar stimulus.....
Bruce in alaska God save us from Flatlanders, and Touristos
--
add <path> before @
y_p_w
I found this job listing. I don't necessarily agree with where he's
going with all this, but arguing about whether someone's title is
"Trooper" or "Ranger" isn't likely to be productive.
"The Department of Public Safety (DPS) is recruiting for applicants
who are interested in a career in law enforcement with the Division of
Alaska State Troopers or the Division of Alaska Wildlife Troopers."
Floyd L. Davidson
>In article <ost3i3dhfqaknslsr...@4ax.com>,
> Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Tell that to the Alaskan Wildlife Ranger who passed along this
>> information. He's only been doing his job for about 16 years, so what
>> the fsck would he know?
>>
>>
>> IT IS ALWAYS THE SAME WITH YOU PEOPLE! I won't waste my time with
>> you. If it doesn't fit into =your= idea, it isn't possible. I dont
>> care if YOU are mauled, in fact, I hope you are. this is a message
>> for those gullible enough to believe your bullshit, hoping that the
>> information might save their lives. As for you, one less of you would
>> be an improvement.
>>
>> Lg
>
>Alaska does NOT have "Wildlife Ranger"s. We have State Troopers, who are
>tasked with Fish & Wildlife Enforcement. If your going to make stupid
>statements, please at least get the "Titles" right, for your sites......
We know which "Wildlife Ranger" he's talking about...
It's that one who unloaded a 7mm mag into a 14 foot
brown bear that was later discovered to have already
eaten two people. The whole story is available at
www.snopes.com... :-)
>and if your going to make stupid statements, please define exactly which
>genus of BEAR, your talking about, as Black, Brown, and Polar, run
>very different software...... and react in very different ways to
>simliar stimulus.....
>
>Bruce in alaska God save us from Flatlanders, and Touristos
>--
>add <path> before @
--
Floyd L. Davidson
>On Oct 26, 9:04 am, fl...@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
>>
>> >Tell that to the Alaskan Wildlife Ranger who passed along this
>> >information. He's only been doing his job for about 16 years, so what
>> >the fsck would he know?
>>
>> Look kid, don't try to pass that crap off as something
>> an "Alaskan Wildlife Ranger", whatever that is, said.
>
>I found this job listing. I don't necessarily agree with where he's
>going with all this, but arguing about whether someone's title is
>"Trooper" or "Ranger" isn't likely to be productive.
The story was total bunk, and claims that it came from
an "Alaska Wildlife Ranger" are a dead giveaway that it
is all just a fabrication.
>http://alexsys.labor.state.ak.us/jobbanks/GOVjobdetails.asp?session=jobsearch&geo=0201000000&oescode=&ordernum=F982C4CAD5B9404A892573750082C193&src=GOV&site=Workplace+Alaska
>
>"The Department of Public Safety (DPS) is recruiting for applicants
>who are interested in a career in law enforcement with the Division of
>Alaska State Troopers or the Division of Alaska Wildlife Troopers."
Actually the distinction in Alaska is fairly
significant. A brown shirt Wildlife Officer has exactly
the same jurisdiction as a blue shirt Alaska State
Trooper. The jurisdiction for Alaska State Troopers is
vastly different than is common for anyone working as a
"Game Warden" or "Wildlife Ranger" in other places.
A Wildlife Officer is just as able to issue a speeding
ticket on the highway as any other Alaska State Trooper,
and on occassion they do get pinched into chasing bank
robbers or whatever.
Eugene Miya
>>Bruce in alaska God save us from Flatlanders, and Touristos
God save us from Flatlanders, and Touristos?
ROTFL!
--
Ronald Wong
JohnB <butchu...@totc.biz> wrote:
I agree with Dan on this one
> Enjoy the time with nature...Then go back
> to sleep and awake in the morning with
> another adventure story to tell the kids!
I've been backpacking for over 30 years - almost 40 now that I think of
it. On most of the backpack trips I've taken (around half of them solo),
I've slept out in the open under the stars. Like most BPers who aren't
interested in attracting wildlife, I've made it a habit of keeping a
clean camp.
I've had a number of animals wander through my campsite - deer, wild
pigs, and even a number of black bears.
"Wander through" was just about all they ever did.
Well, in one case involving a small
number deer, I woke up in the middle
of a late afternoon nap in my sleep-
ing bag to find them browsing all
around me. What woke me up was one
of them trying to nudge my blue
sleeping bag out of the way. As
long I stayed in the bag with just
my face showing, I could look a-
round and see what they were up
to without disturbing them. I
guess a large blue "maggot" was
not on their list of predators.
A few of the interlopers looked around but all of them went on their way.
I've always been on the alert when an animal came into my campsite but
there's never been any cause for concern. None of them were carnivores
by nature (I wonder what I'd do if a cougar was to drop in on me. I HAVE
encountered brown bears but only while I was on the move).
ron
el...@no.spam
Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
>You're bear food.
No, you're just stupid.
>The only reason you haven't figured that out yet, is because
>you're too fat to get out of your chair and venture into the
>wilderness.
Far, or not, I've spent a lot a time in the wilderness and
confronted many bears. In every case I've found the bear to
be afraid of me.
el...@no.spam
Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Tell that to the Alaskan Wildlife Ranger who passed along this
>information.
Nobody has been talking about Alaskan brown bears. They have
*nothing* at all to do with the situation being discussed.
Bruce in Alaska
wrote:
and I don't equate you, Eugene, in either catagory...........
Bruce in alaska
Eugene Miya
Bruce in Alaska <fa...@btpost.net> wrote:
>In article <472271f0$1@darkstar>, eug...@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya)
>wrote:
>> >Bruce in Alaska <fa...@btpost.net> wrote:
>> >>Bruce in alaska God save us from Flatlanders, and Touristos
>>
>> God save us from Flatlanders, and Touristos?
>>
>> ROTFL!
>
No camo eh?
No hiding.....
--
Dan
Wow, Larry, I never knew you had such a vivid imagination. That is
quite a fantasy world you inhabit.
My experience is quite different, though I do not doubt that in 0.01% of
cases, you very well might be correct...
Dan
Dan
Well I would dare say I have had more bear experiences up close and
personal than you, with some pretty persnickety Yosemite bears at that.
Not that my advice is suitable for those in known Grizzly country. that
is an entirely different kettle of fish...
Dan
Lawrence Glickman
Enjoy your time with Nature. Sooner or later, if you live in bear
territory, you might become dinner. You won't have time to remember
this warning to stay the fsck away from them.
Lg
Dan
You never thought to understand that the "Alaskan Wildlife Ranger" was
talking to an obvious city slicker who didn't belong in the wild in the
first place. he was trying to protect the bears by making sure you
never interact with one...
Dan
Dan
Watch out, the only wildlife fatalities in Yosemite NP were from deer...
Dan
Lawrence Glickman
>You never thought to understand that the "Alaskan Wildlife Ranger" was
>talking to an obvious city slicker who didn't belong in the wild in the
>first place. he was trying to protect the bears by making sure you
>never interact with one...
>
>Dan
That could very well be True. In fact, the more I think about it,
you're most likely correct.
Lg
y_p_w
wrote:
>
> >>> Enjoy the time with nature, assured that your camp is clean enough that
> >>> the bear will not linger.
>
> >>> Then go back to sleep and awake in the morning with another adventure
> >>> story to tell the kids!
>
> >>> Dan
>
> >> Absolute unmitigated bullshit.
>
> >> If/when a bear, of any kind, attempts to come into your tent at NIGHT,
> >> while you or someone else is inside, it is in PREDATOR MODE. It is
> >> going to kill you, if you don't kill it.
>
> >> Now that is the fact of the matter. Daytime is one thing, when a bear
> >> moves in on you at NIGHT, it is HUNTING YOU. Act accordingly. BTW,
> >> you can't outrun a bear.
>
> >> Lg
>
> >Wow, Larry, I never knew you had such a vivid imagination. That is
> >quite a fantasy world you inhabit.
>
> >My experience is quite different, though I do not doubt that in 0.01% of
> >cases, you very well might be correct...
>
> >Dan
>
> Enjoy your time with Nature. Sooner or later, if you live in bear
> territory, you might become dinner. You won't have time to remember
> this warning to stay the fsck away from them.
Your rantings are beyond ludicrous. I've heard of the extremely rare
case of a black bear going into a tent and maybe dragging away a small
kid. There was that Utah case last June. However - it was also noted
that black bears are rarely predatory. It's sensationalized by the
media when it happens, but I'd worry far more about being injured in a
vehicle accident than from a bear. Let's look at the countless number
of fatalities from bear attacks in Yosemite, Lake Tahoe, and other
parts of the Sierras. What? There hasn't been a recorded case of a
black bear causing a human fatality in California or Nevada? That
can't be if Lawrence Glickman insists that they often predatory.
Sure.....
Must be that if I stayed around longer, this bear would have been
looking to grab me and make me his lunch.
http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crjmbearkh1.jpg
Or maybe it decided that we weren't suitable lunch material and moved
on.
http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crjmbear0xe7.jpg
Most stories I hear about bears breaking into tents involve either
grabbing some food that was carelessly left in the tent, or where
someone easily scared away the bear by making noises or fighting it
off. That includes years of people improperly storing food in tents/
homes in Lake Tahoe, Yosemite, the Sierras, and the Cascades. If
black bears were as dangerous as you say, I'd think there'd be at
least one bear that had a dinner of some kid playing in a Lake Tahoe
backyard. What we do hear about are hungry bears that found their way
into Reno and started knocking over trash cans for food. In
California, bears are thought of as annoyances that break into cars,
knock over trash cans, and raid campsites for food.
Black bears are primarily vegetarians, although they'll eat bugs and
sometimes small animals. Most black bears I've heard of are
interested in an easy meal and shy away from confrontation. I've seen
a few, and they might have been a little bit curious about people.
However - I never, ever got the sense that they were looking at me or
any other person as a potential meal.
Dan
Don't forget your tinfoil hat, to keep you safe from the
far-more-likely-to-happen lightning strike. In fact, it will serve two
purposes - keep you safe from lightning, and warn rational people in
your vicinity that you are a loonie who packs heat. Sure hope your
social life won't suffer too much, but one can't be too safe, eh?
Dan
Lawrence Glickman
>Don't forget your tinfoil hat, to keep you safe from the
>far-more-likely-to-happen lightning strike. In fact, it will serve two
>purposes - keep you safe from lightning, and warn rational people in
>your vicinity that you are a loonie who packs heat. Sure hope your
>social life won't suffer too much, but one can't be too safe, eh?
>
>Dan
The National Forest Service doesn't want to scare everybody away,
otherwise they're out of a job. But I can find more references and
photos of bear maulings than you can shake a stick at.
Just because I can find them, doesn't mean I will. i have other
things to do with my time, than try to convince you of your idiocy.
Lg
Wolf Leverich
For reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_bear_attacks_in_North_America_by_decade
That shows about 3 fatal maulings a year in all of North America,
which sounds about right.
Given that guns are never certain defenses against bears and that
fatalities by gun accidents are several orders of magnitude more
common than bear mauling, it would not surprize me if the numbers
crunched out that carrying a gun by itself increases your probability
of death in the backcountry.
Also, given that death by hypothermia is hugely more likely than
death by bear mauling in almost all circumstances, anyone who
chooses to carry a gun rather than more clothing layers and easily-
digestible calories should never visit Las Vegas.
BTW, I'm a gun owner and firm 2nd Amendment supporter. I've just
spent a lot of time in the backcountry and, unless hunting is the
point of the trip, guns don't even come close to making it into
my pack on a benefit-per-pound basis.
Cheers, Wolf.
--
Dr. Brian Leverich Co-moderator, soc.genealogy.methods/GENMTD-L
Angeles Chapter LTC Admin Chair http://angeles.sierraclub.org/ltc/
P.O. Box 6831, Frazier Park, CA 93222-6831 leve...@mtpinos.com
y_p_w
wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:33:20 -0800, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Don't forget your tinfoil hat, to keep you safe from the
> >far-more-likely-to-happen lightning strike. In fact, it will serve two
> >purposes - keep you safe from lightning, and warn rational people in
> >your vicinity that you are a loonie who packs heat. Sure hope your
> >social life won't suffer too much, but one can't be too safe, eh?
>
> >Dan
>
> The National Forest Service doesn't want to scare everybody away,
> otherwise they're out of a job. But I can find more references and
> photos of bear maulings than you can shake a stick at.
There is no "National Forest Service" - at least not in the US. There
is however the USDA Forest Service. Like I said before - you can
always find the sensational. However - the average person hiking/
camping in the backcountry should be more concerned about falling off
a cliff or getting struck by lightning. You can dig up photos of
people who were mauled to death by German Shepards, but that's not
going to keep me from petting the friendly dog being walked on the
sidewalk.
> Just because I can find them, doesn't mean I will. i have other
> things to do with my time, than try to convince you of your idiocy.
Bears are rarely a threat to human beings -especially black bears.
Human beings kill far more bears in vehicle accidents than bears kill
humans. I've been in bear country. I've seen bear activity at all
times of the day and night. Black bears just want an easy meal with
little complication in getting it. There is the occasional predatory
bear, but again - that's a very sensationationalized event and gets
undue media coverage like Paris Hilton. There are places with large
bear populations (I mentioned Lake Tahoe) where there's never been a
fatal attack by a black bear, and only rare instances where there was
even injury,
Lawrence Glickman
Bear attacks are something to be taken into the Equation of Survival,
especially if you're in their territory. Finding yourself completely
defenseless in such circumstances is suicide. If you look carefully
at bear scat, you'll see lots of cans of capsaicin and lots of bells.
Just save everyone some bandwidth and google "bear attacks"
Read some of the one million 200 thousand *hits*
When you enter the wilderness, you become part of the food chain.
It may be, that more people die from snake bites, spider bites,
alligators, etc etc. If you were in alligator country, I would
caution people to be aware that they have been known to take humans up
to 15 feet from the waterline.
Snakes can *cover* their own length in just a second.
Nature is full of awesome beauty, and at every turn, the possibility
of injury and death. Things can go from good to bad in the blink of
an eye. I guess my message is...don't become complacent.
Lg
Wolf Leverich
> It may be, that more people die from snake bites, spider bites,
> alligators, etc etc. If you were in alligator country, I would
> caution people to be aware that they have been known to take humans up
> to 15 feet from the waterline.
>
> Snakes can *cover* their own length in just a second.
There are on average about 15 American snakebite fatalities
each year. The most common circumstances is bite on hand of
someone who is drunk and trying to play with the snake.
(I'm not kidding.)
###
> Nature is full of awesome beauty, and at every turn, the possibility
> of injury and death. Things can go from good to bad in the blink of
> an eye. I guess my message is...don't become complacent.
One of the problems in getting people to travel safely in the
backcountry is that people worry about all the wrong things.
Death due to critters is so uncommon in the CONUS that it's
just about not even worth a footnote.
People get killed by falls. People get killed by exposure.
People get killed by Darwin-Award stupidity.
The problem with worrying about the wrong problems is that
the wrong stuff is in your pack and you prolly aren't paying
enough attention to what's critical.
Lawrence Glickman
Well, let me give you a personal anecdote.
I was hunting a farmer's acerage (by permission) one Autumn in Upstate
New York. And was charged by two viscious DOGS. These dogs may or
may not have belonged to someone in the area, but that didn't matter
to me. What mattered to me was they had tracked me (I had fired some
warning shots over their heads).
I made it to my car just in time, when they jumped for me. They got
up on the engine hood and ripped my windshield wipers apart. They
chewed on the rubber tire valves trying to flatten my tires. They
hissed like furious Cobras, and there is NO QUESTION that if I hadn't
been inside my vehicle at that time, they would have had me for lunch.
WHY didn't I shoot them? because I didn't _have_ to, but that was one
close call I won't be forgetting in this lifetime.
Nor will I forget almost falling to my death at Letchworth State Park,
having climbed into a spot where I couldn't go further up, and I
couldn't go back down. I was rescued by a civilian even though Rescue
vehicles were on scene...but I was too far away from them to hear what
they were saying through their bullhorn.
If you haven't Faced Death in the wilderness, give it time. Sooner or
later you will. If you get out of your situation, chalk it up to good
luck or good planning.
Lg
Eugene Miya
Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
>If/when a bear, of any kind, attempts to come into your tent at NIGHT,
>while you or someone else is inside, it is in PREDATOR MODE. It is
>going to kill you, if you don't kill it.
>
>Now that is the fact of the matter. Daytime is one thing, when a bear
>moves in on you at NIGHT, it is HUNTING YOU. Act accordingly. BTW,
>you can't outrun a bear.
Any your knowledge from bears comes from where?
--
Eugene Miya
the Moderator <sparky@no_spam_engineer.com> wrote:
>Bears are unpredictable. Like people.
And your knowledge from bears come from where?
--
Dan
See, he is just having fun. No need to feed the troll...
Keep moving, folks. Nothing to see here.
Dan
Dan
He knows he is just having fun with us. He finally let slip...
Dan
y_p_w
> On 2007-10-29, Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence_Glick...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > It may be, that more people die from snake bites, spider bites,
> > alligators, etc etc. If you were in alligator country, I would
> > caution people to be aware that they have been known to take humans up
> > to 15 feet from the waterline.
>
> > Snakes can *cover* their own length in just a second.
>
> There are on average about 15 American snakebite fatalities
> each year. The most common circumstances is bite on hand of
> someone who is drunk and trying to play with the snake.
> (I'm not kidding.)
>
> ###
>
> > Nature is full of awesome beauty, and at every turn, the possibility
> > of injury and death. Things can go from good to bad in the blink of
> > an eye. I guess my message is...don't become complacent.
>
> One of the problems in getting people to travel safely in the
> backcountry is that people worry about all the wrong things.
>
> Death due to critters is so uncommon in the CONUS that it's
> just about not even worth a footnote.
However - I just saw the movie The Darjeeling Limited. One theme in
the movie was a tiger in the Himalayas that had killed several people
in the area around a monastery. I wonder what preparation Western
hikers in those areas have for that particular danger. My coworkers
from India tell me that cobra bites happen on a regular basis even in
large cities.
I'd still say that being prepared with information helps. Most non-
fatal bear attacks I've heard of were where someone simply startled a
bear and it reacted, then ran away. Before I went hiking solo in the
Canyon area of Yellowstone, a ranger advised me to make a little
noise, just in case there's a bear. Of course he never tried to
dissuade me from hiking alone even though it was a known grizzly area.
As long as they know you're nearby, bears will probably avoid people
unless they're raiding a campsite for food. I know it's highly
unlikely that I'm going to be attacked by a bear, but I know to fight
off a black bear and play dead (cover your neck with a pack if
possible) with a grizzly. I hear of the kid who got bitten by a bear
in PA, and the media reports were that he did the right thing by
playing dead until help arrived to fight it off. No - he should
should have started wailing on that bear until it got the message.
> People get killed by falls. People get killed by exposure.
> People get killed by Darwin-Award stupidity.
People get killed in car accidents on the way to the backcountry.
> The problem with worrying about the wrong problems is that
> the wrong stuff is in your pack and you prolly aren't paying
> enough attention to what's critical.
Like food?
Eugene Miya
>Eugene Miya wrote:
>> In article <3gl2i3t1t7lv9k8t8...@4ax.com>,
>> Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> If/when a bear, of any kind, attempts to come into your tent at NIGHT,
>>> while you or someone else is inside, it is in PREDATOR MODE. It is
>>> going to kill you, if you don't kill it.
>>>
>>> Now that is the fact of the matter. Daytime is one thing, when a bear
>>> moves in on you at NIGHT, it is HUNTING YOU. Act accordingly. BTW,
>>> you can't outrun a bear.
>>
>
>He knows he is just having fun with us. He finally let slip...
See, I keep telling you guys that every one trolls.
--
You
Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> The National Forest Service doesn't want to scare everybody away,
> otherwise they're out of a job.
drivel snipped for brevity
> Lg
>
The National Forest Service really doesn't care if you habitate their
ground or not, they have a mandate to keep the Forests of the US,
healthy, and productive, for ALL the citizens of the country. They
do maintain "Infostructure" for you campers, and hikers, but if there
weren't any of those folks around, they wouldn't have to waste any
of their "Hard to come, By" funds, on that kind of "Infostructure",
and could use th to maintain their Primary Mandate......
Lawrence Glickman
wrote:
Just somehow, I had the thought that you are an idiot.
The two things that almost killed me in the wilderness to date are:
falling
and
wild dogs
But that doesn't mean there aren't other things *out there* that can
do the same damage.
I suggest you google "bear attack" and then STFU.
Lg
(break a leg)
Bruce in Alaska
y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Black bears are primarily vegetarians, although they'll eat bugs and
> sometimes small animals.
Obviously you really don't have a good understanding of the Black Bears
Food chain....... Black Bears will eat ANYTHING, that smells good to
them.... Fish is a very common Black Bear Foodstuff, as well as their
own young, especially in the fall, when Fat Reserves need to be enhanced.
Protien, Sugars, and Fat are THE Primary ingredients of Black Bear Chow,
but in the Spring, these are is very short supply, so the Black Bear
eats Grasses, Roots, and Yes, Bugs, untill the early summer Berries come
into favor. If a Protien Source presents itself, that is what a Black
Bear will eat, but the Protien Source must be significantly smaller than
the bear itself, to even be considered as Bear Chow. PEOPLE are "almost"
NEVER considered a Protien source for Black Bears, in ANY Season. Bugs,
Bees, Ants, Fish, and small animals, that aren't swift enough to get out
of the bears path, ARE considered Bear Chow, ANYTIME they are
encountered.
If you want to get yourself a Black Bear Rug for your cabin, stake out a
Grassy Field, in Bear Country, in the springtime. Set yourself up with a
chaselounge chair, a cooler full of "Goodies and your favorite
Beverage", and just wait for one to show up for a morning nibble. Make
sure your "Weapon of Choice" has the range, to cover the whole "Field of
View" from your stand, and your "Made in the Shade", every time. This
isn't Rocket Science. You just have to be smarter than the "Average
Bear".
Bruce in Alaska
> In article <2bt3i3pddts15vf3u...@4ax.com>,
> Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >You're bear food.
>
> No, you're just stupid.
>
> >The only reason you haven't figured that out yet, is because
> >you're too fat to get out of your chair and venture into the
> >wilderness.
>
> Far, or not, I've spent a lot a time in the wilderness and
> confronted many bears. In every case I've found the bear to
> be afraid of me.
You just haven't encounter the "right" Bear, yet. There aren't many
of these "Right" bears around, but they do exist, and if you encounter
one, you will know the difference, right off.
Usually a Juvenile Black Male, just left Mommy that spring, and hasn't
much experience interacting with humans. They will act totally
different than anything you have seen, before, and should you ever
encounter one such animal, just remember that he DOES, think of you as
CHOW, and you need to make him think different, or your going to get
MUNCHED.
y_p_w
> In article <1193553202.524726.260...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
>
> y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Black bears are primarily vegetarians, although they'll eat bugs and
> > sometimes small animals.
>
> Obviously you really don't have a good understanding of the Black Bears
> Food chain....... Black Bears will eat ANYTHING, that smells good to
> them.... Fish is a very common Black Bear Foodstuff, as well as their
> own young, especially in the fall, when Fat Reserves need to be enhanced.
> Protien, Sugars, and Fat are THE Primary ingredients of Black Bear Chow,
> but in the Spring, these are is very short supply, so the Black Bear
> eats Grasses, Roots, and Yes, Bugs, untill the early summer Berries come
> into favor. If a Protien Source presents itself, that is what a Black
> Bear will eat, but the Protien Source must be significantly smaller than
> the bear itself, to even be considered as Bear Chow. PEOPLE are "almost"
> NEVER considered a Protien source for Black Bears, in ANY Season. Bugs,
> Bees, Ants, Fish, and small animals, that aren't swift enough to get out
> of the bears path, ARE considered Bear Chow, ANYTIME they are
> encountered.
Regardless, the number I hear bandied about is around 80% vegetarian,
although I do realize that they'll eat anything that's relatively easy
to procure. With human intervention, that might include potato chips
and cold cuts. You also forgot to mention tree bark. In California,
acorns are on the ground everywhere and seem to be really popular with
bears in the Fall.
In Yosemite, Bear Chow seems to be whatever people decide to leave in
their cars or on their picnic tables. Mary Curry decided to plant
apple trees over 100 years ago, and now there's a thriving apple crop
in late summer in the Curry Village parking lot. Some people who
parked next to the trees find dents in their roofs where bears climbed
to get to apples.
http://www.nps.gov/yose/parknews/bear0828.htm
"Park visitors are invited to join Yosemite National Park staff, staff
from DNC Parks and Resorts in Yosemite, Inc., and Yosemite Association
volunteers in picking apples from the historic, though non-native,
apple orchard at Curry Village. Each fall, the apples attract bears
into the developed areas of Yosemite Valley and alter their natural
diets. By removing the apples, the bears will return to natural food
sources found throughout the park."
> If you want to get yourself a Black Bear Rug for your cabin, stake out a
> Grassy Field, in Bear Country, in the springtime. Set yourself up with a
> chaselounge chair, a cooler full of "Goodies and your favorite
> Beverage", and just wait for one to show up for a morning nibble. Make
> sure your "Weapon of Choice" has the range, to cover the whole "Field of
> View" from your stand, and your "Made in the Shade", every time. This
> isn't Rocket Science. You just have to be smarter than the "Average
> Bear".
Sounds about as ethical as shooting elk at a salt pit. ;-)
Steven
The "dog" story is almost good enough for the "Final Destination" series of
movies. Did the hell hounds roll big rocks to chock the tires
too.......................................
Gotta love natural selection.....................
Steven
"Eugene Miya" <eug...@cse.ucsc.edu> wrote in message
news:47264b62$1@darkstar...
true -- fishing is fun.............
Lawrence Glickman
FOAD you piece of shit.
I'm neither a troll nor a liar.
The problem is, your mind, what little of it there is...can't
comprehend anything that isn't in your own experience bank. Which I
presume is limited to playing Nintendo Games when you're supposed to
be doing your homework.
Lg
Lawrence Glickman
The boy has gone fishing.
What's next? Catching muskrat?
Big Adventures with Stevie. Just don't try to charge anybody money
for them.
Lg
Steven
Just so you know -- fueling the discussions on occasions is entertaining,
but I'm not making fun of the "wild dog" experience. Your description of
your experience is quite extreme, but I've also had a "scary" experience
with a small pack of feral dogs a few years ago, it was really in a large
urban park type area, the dogs were aggressive, but some well placed midsize
stones and use of stout hiking pole had them moving on and then I moved
on..........
it was scary none the less
"Steven" <nom...@ibm.net> wrote in message
news:zEtVi.46$4N1...@newsfe13.lga...
A.
"Bruce in Alaska" <fa...@btpost.net> wrote in message
news:fast-76DA69.1...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
It's the same with any creature. Some bad apples.
Of course, it depends on your point of view, whether you think
bears are simply rascals or whether you think they are demonic.
A.
Eugene Miya
>>>> Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> And your knowledge from bears comes from where?
>>>He knows he is just having fun with us. He finally let slip...
In article <PFtVi.50$4N1...@newsfe13.lga>, Steven <nom...@ibm.net> wrote:
>"Eugene Miya" <eug...@cse.ucsc.edu> wrote in message
>news:47264b62$1@darkstar...
>> See, I keep telling you guys that every one trolls.
>
>true -- fishing is fun.............
Well, technically, John Muir wrote fishing is boring.
And I tend to somewhat agree were it not for the eating of fish.
Trawling is certainly possible.
--
Eugene Miya
Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Just somehow, I had the thought that you are an idiot.
>The two things that almost killed me in the wilderness to date are:
>
>falling
Yeah Bob Gross used to cite that, and he's no longer here.
It's what climbing ropes are for.
>and
>
>wild dogs
I've got the tennis shoes.
>But that doesn't mean there aren't other things *out there* that can
>do the same damage.
>
>I suggest you google "bear attack" and then STFU.
Yeah I have the FAQ on the subject.
And your knowledge from bears comes from where?
>Lg
>(break a leg)
Already did twice.
--
Steven
True, sometimes being bored is good for the soul, however it seems certain
kinds of fishing never fail to get a few bites -- LOL
Wayne
people might do it. I was hiking past a lake in the sierras outside Bishop,
CA and ran into a fisherman. I asked him if he was catching anything. He
replied "No", then broke into a big grin and said "but it doesn't matter,
does it!" He was the perfect picture of a guy having the time of his life.
Eugene Miya
>>>>>>> In article <3gl2i3t1t7lv9k8t8...@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>> Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> ...
>>>>>>> And your knowledge from bears comes from where?
>>>>>>He knows he is just having fun with us. He finally let slip...
>>>>true -- fishing is fun.............
In article <y7IVi.4126$oy4.3403@trnddc08>,
Wayne <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote:
>"Steven" <nom...@ibm.net> wrote in message
>news:dTAVi.126$6Z1...@newsfe16.lga...
>> "Eugene Miya" <eug...@cse.ucsc.edu> wrote in message
>> news:4726c84b$1@darkstar...
>>> Well, technically, John Muir wrote fishing is boring.
>>> And I tend to somewhat agree were it not for the eating of fish.
>>> Trawling is certainly possible.
>>
>> True, sometimes being bored is good for the soul, however it seems certain
>> kinds of fishing never fail to get a few bites -- LOL
Net phishing can result in interesting bites.
Some of the spam I got came from Palestine and national domains like .ir.
>I'm also one of those who finds fishing boring. But I understand why other
>people might do it. I was hiking past a lake in the sierras outside Bishop,
>CA and ran into a fisherman. I asked him if he was catching anything. He
>replied "No", then broke into a big grin and said "but it doesn't matter,
>does it!" He was the perfect picture of a guy having the time of his life.
North over Piute (Loch Levin or North Lake) or S past Sabrina or the others
toward Bishop Pass?
I started running up peaks and technical climbing with fishers.
It was great to come back to camp and have fresh fish, goldens/rainbows/German
browns, or for breakfast in the morning. Slurp. Especially great when
they get tired or don't like to eat fish. Slurp. Alien like salva
dripping down from vipers.....
--
Eugene Miya
Bruce in Alaska <fa...@btpost.net> wrote:
>In article <1193553202.5...@i38g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Black bears are primarily vegetarians, although they'll eat bugs and
>> sometimes small animals.
>
>Obviously you really don't have a good understanding of the Black Bears
>Food chain....... Black Bears will eat ANYTHING, that smells good to
>them.... Fish is a very common Black Bear Foodstuff, as well as their
>own young, especially in the fall, when Fat Reserves need to be enhanced.
>into favor. If a Protein Source presents itself, that is what a Black
>Bear will eat, but the Protein Source must be significantly smaller than
>Bees, Ants, Fish, and small animals, that aren't swift enough to get out
>of the bears path, ARE considered Bear Chow, ANYTIME they are
>encountered.
Yep.
The threat doesn't have to be bears.
The outdoors aren't always "woods." The threat can be in Africa: lions
and tigers, oh my...
>If you want to get yourself a Black Bear Rug for your cabin, stake out a
>Grassy Field, in Bear Country, in the springtime. Set yourself up with a
>chaselounge chair, a cooler full of "Goodies and your favorite
>Beverage", and just wait for one to show up for a morning nibble. Make
>sure your "Weapon of Choice" has the range, to cover the whole "Field of
>View" from your stand, and your "Made in the Shade", every time. This
>isn't Rocket Science.
Do you carry in the flat parts of Excursion?
What did you select: rifle, slugs, or .44?
And how much extra ammo do you carry?
>You just have to be smarter than the "Average Bear".
Reminds me wonder where Gary is?....
--
Galen Hekhuis
wrote:
>...
>The outdoors aren't always "woods." The threat can be in Africa: lions
>and tigers, oh my...
>...
Tigers? In Africa? Oh my.
--
Galen Hekhuis ghek...@earthlink.net
I may have mispoken
Eugene Miya
Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On 30 Oct 2007 11:08:04 -0800, eug...@cse.ucsc.edu (Eugene Miya)
>wrote:
>>and tigers, oh my...
>>...
>
>Tigers? In Africa? Oh my.
Reel him in!
You never know when a person get invited to Siberia.
--
Eugene Miya
A. <AmericanW...@rock.com> wrote:
>"Bruce in Alaska" <fa...@btpost.net> wrote in message
>news:fast-76DA69.1...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
>> In article <11935047...@no.spam>, el...@no.spam () wrote:
>>> In article <2bt3i3pddts15vf3u...@4ax.com>,
>>> Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> >You're bear food.
>>> No, you're just stupid.
>
>
>Of course, it depends on your point of view, whether you think
>bears are simply rascals or whether you think they are demonic.
No, it's more than that.
It's humans moving into bear habitate. It's why there are no more
grizzly bears in California.
It's why some people find all wild animals so novel to see.
Predators will go first.
They have gone first.
But we'll take over lands of the herbivores.
And we'll put the trees in a Museum.
And that's only the beginning.
--
y_p_w
> "Steven" <nom...@ibm.net> wrote in message
>
> news:dTAVi.126$6Z1...@newsfe16.lga...
>
>
>
> > "Eugene Miya" <eug...@cse.ucsc.edu> wrote in message
> >news:4726c84b$1@darkstar...
> >>>>>> Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence_Glick...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> ...
> >>>>>> And your knowledge from bears comes from where?
> >>>>>He knows he is just having fun with us. He finally let slip...
>
> >> In article <PFtVi.50$4N1...@newsfe13.lga>, Steven <nom...@ibm.net> wrote:
> >>>"Eugene Miya" <eug...@cse.ucsc.edu> wrote in message
> >>>news:47264b62$1@darkstar...
> >>>> See, I keep telling you guys that every one trolls.
>
> >>>true -- fishing is fun.............
>
> >> Well, technically, John Muir wrote fishing is boring.
> >> And I tend to somewhat agree were it not for the eating of fish.
> >> Trawling is certainly possible.
>
> >> --
>
> > True, sometimes being bored is good for the soul, however it seems certain
> > kinds of fishing never fail to get a few bites -- LOL
>
> I'm also one of those who finds fishing boring. But I understand why other
> people might do it. I was hiking past a lake in the sierras outside Bishop,
> CA and ran into a fisherman. I asked him if he was catching anything. He
> replied "No", then broke into a big grin and said "but it doesn't matter,
> does it!" He was the perfect picture of a guy having the time of his life.
I remember being in Bishop last year. Didn't have a room and was just
sort of "winging it" trying to find a place to stay. Ended up a some
generic (but spacious and clean) motel room for $90, and the other
places in town that had rooms were almost $200. Some sort of junior
rodeo in town meant most of the rooms in town were booked.
Pretty much all lodging in town caters to fishing. I opened a local
guidebook, and each ad for lodging noted fish cleaning stations and
ice. Our small (maybe 20 rooms) motel had 3 fish cleaning stations
and two huge icemakers. Unlike most places, they seemed to encourage
loading your ice chest with their ice. I think they know where their
tourist dollars are coming from in Bishop.
Eugene Miya
y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 30, 8:31 am, "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>> In article <3gl2i3t1t7lv9k8t803ss504iidomq6...@4ax.com>,
>> >>>>>> Lawrence Glickman <Lawrence_Glick...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>> And your knowledge from bears comes from where?
>> >>>>>He knows he is just having fun with us. He finally let slip...
>>
>> >>>true -- fishing is fun.............
>> >> Well, technically, John Muir wrote fishing is boring.
>> > True, sometimes being bored is good for the soul, however it seems certain
>> > kinds of fishing never fail to get a few bites -- LOL
>> I'm also one of those who finds fishing boring. But I understand why other
>> people might do it. I was hiking past a lake in the sierras outside Bishop,
>> CA and ran into a fisherman. I asked him if he was catching anything. He
>
>sort of "winging it" trying to find a place to stay. Ended up a some
>generic (but spacious and clean) motel room for $90, and the other
>places in town that had rooms were almost $200.
The Creek side Inn is built over Bishop Creek.
>Some sort of junior
>rodeo in town meant most of the rooms in town were booked.
Either Mule Days or the Fair, or other celebration.
>Pretty much all lodging in town caters to fishing. I opened a local
>guidebook, and each ad for lodging noted fish cleaning stations and
That's summer time.
>ice. Our small (maybe 20 rooms) motel had 3 fish cleaning stations
>and two huge icemakers. Unlike most places, they seemed to encourage
>loading your ice chest with their ice. I think they know where their
>tourist dollars are coming from in Bishop.
Yes, that's true, but the Casino is starting to bring in more skier dollars.
Growth is limited because LA owns all practical adjacent land. Fewer
hike and climb. People are having to come to terms with the new economy.
--
Wayne
> In article <1193762115.2...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>On Oct 30, 8:31 am, "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote:
to date with the Mammoth airport plans, but service to Mammoth via large jet
aircraft will be great for the economy, but will really suck for those of us
seeking to get away from it all. That development is bound to affect Bishop
also. Too bad Alaska isn't within weekend driving distance for me.
Bruce in Alaska
wrote:
> >If you want to get yourself a Black Bear Rug for your cabin, stake out a
> >Grassy Field, in Bear Country, in the springtime. Set yourself up with a
> >chaselounge chair, a cooler full of "Goodies and your favorite
> >Beverage", and just wait for one to show up for a morning nibble. Make
> >sure your "Weapon of Choice" has the range, to cover the whole "Field of
> >View" from your stand, and your "Made in the Shade", every time. This
> >isn't Rocket Science.
>
> Do you carry in the flat parts of Excursion?
Only when there is a "Pressing Need"......
My wife got the "Rug Bear" in our cabin.... She was tired of having him
raid the smokehouse, and DID HIM, with a single round from my
30M1 Carbine.... No one told her that it wasn't big enough to shoot
bears with...... One Shot, One Kill, I don't argue with her about
stuff.... 360# Boar with a very nice Winter Coat......
> What did you select: rifle, slugs, or .44?
for "Me", it is a Stainless 12Ga. Extended Mag Shotgun with a load
that goes #9 Shot, #9 Shot, 00Buck, Slug, 00Buck, Slug, 00Buck, Slug....
A "Close" neighbor drives around (4 wheeler) with a 45/70 Extended Mag
LeverAction, and ONE of a variety of HandGuns of consequence.......
> And how much extra ammo do you carry?
Never had to get past the first 1oz Slug.... in 40 years.....
>
> >You just have to be smarter than the "Average Bear".
>
> Reminds me wonder where Gary is?....
>
> --
Bruce in alaska
Eugene Miya
Wayne <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> fishing
>>>> Bishop,
>> Yes, that's true, but the Casino is starting to bring in more skier
>> dollars.
>> Growth is limited because LA owns all practical adjacent land. Fewer
>> hike and climb. People are having to come to terms with the new economy.
>>
>Yeah, it's a real bummer to see the development in the valley. I'm not up
>to date with the Mammoth airport plans, but service to Mammoth via large jet
>aircraft will be great for the economy, but will really suck for those of us
>seeking to get away from it all. That development is bound to affect Bishop
>also. Too bad Alaska isn't within weekend driving distance for me.
I'm not certain of the count, but I think in the past year the number of
times I've landed at Bishop and Mammoth must be at least 3 times each and
maybe more, sometimes on the same trip and other times (not, like I can
remember a Bishop landing which didn't include Mammoth and a Mammoth
landing which didn't include Bishop). I'd have to look at any of the
CD's we shot like I remember the time we fly thru Kearsarge late last
year, the time we took an Italian post-doc (that was Palisades flightseeing)
and got struck and spent the night at a friend's house and had to get up
at 5 to walk to the airport. Then another separate set of trips where
we recorded landings (skipping MMT).
Both airports have maps and 3-D models of plans, but I don't know where
they plan to get the money. On the other hand, I now met the families
of the guys who attempted to blow the LA Aquaduct up decades ago down in LP.
I'm not clear that jet traffic well ever take off. Tahoe barely
survives and it's really no competition to Reno which is a safety field
to land and not too far away. I once did take twin engine commecial
service to MMT decades ago from Santa Monica, but it just never quite
survives. AK will never be what it once was.
--
y_p_w
> In article <1193762115.273592.170...@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
> >ice. Our small (maybe 20 rooms) motel had 3 fish cleaning stations
> >and two huge icemakers. Unlike most places, they seemed to encourage
> >loading your ice chest with their ice. I think they know where their
> >tourist dollars are coming from in Bishop.
>
> Yes, that's true, but the Casino is starting to bring in more skier dollars.
> Growth is limited because LA owns all practical adjacent land. Fewer
> hike and climb. People are having to come to terms with the new economy.
Yeah - I noticed the City of Los Angeles Water & Power office there.
Wasn't the movie Chinatown about the water grab in Owens Valley? They
also had a DMV office, which I'm sure barely gets any business.
You
wrote:
> AK will never be what it once was.
No place is ever what it once was...... Eugene.....
Eugene Miya
That's why McPhee wrote Coming Into the Country.
That's independent of Tom Wolfe and people "going home."
--
Eugene Miya
>> >and two huge icemakers. Unlike most places, they seemed to encourage
>> >loading your ice chest with their ice. I think they know where their
>> >tourist dollars are coming from in Bishop.
>>
>> Yes, that's true, but the Casino is starting to bring in more skier dollars.
>> Growth is limited because LA owns all practical adjacent land. Fewer
>> hike and climb. People are having to come to terms with the new economy.
In article <1193855044.9...@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yeah - I noticed the City of Los Angeles Water & Power office there.
How can any one miss them?!
I've been introduced to DWP people by friends.
>Wasn't the movie Chinatown about the water grab in Owens Valley?
Basically. I've not seen the whole thing.
> They also had a DMV office, which I'm sure barely gets any business.
Well people in Inyo county have to have access.
A little more than 10 years when I started working with people in
Sacramento 4 counties came up. 2 were great examples of early adopting
internet technologies (Shasta and Siskou amazingly well connected) and
2 was poor collected (cited Inyo and Plumas).
Inyo was never a problem because, I spent so much time there
[contacts and I compared recreation there, I learned about Darwin],
but I had to look up where Plumas was [keywords learned:
CA70, Feather river, Quincy [both drive and fly and land],
(Feather Falls (6th highest waterfall in the state and 5 miles walk and
the dome, and I would never reveal the approach)).
--
y_p_w
> y_p_w <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Yeah - I noticed the City of Los Angeles Water & Power office there.
>
> How can any one miss them?!
>
> I've been introduced to DWP people by friends.
>
> >Wasn't the movie Chinatown about the water grab in Owens Valley?
>
> Basically. I've not seen the whole thing.
Neither have I.
> > They also had a DMV office, which I'm sure barely gets any business.
>
> Well people in Inyo county have to have access.
I know. A coworker tells me that if he knows he's going to be in some
sparesly populated California town with a DMV office, he'll take his
DMV business there so he doesn't have to wait in line two hours closer
to home. I tend to handle most of my DMV business at my AAA office
(under contract with the DMV for AAA members only).
Wayne
"y_p_w" <y_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1193949553....@k35g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
view Bishop as the place that has nothing but the bakery and a few annoying
stoplights. Over the years, I have had many pleasant experiences with the
townsfolk. But, two events stick in my mind that is characteristic of the
town. First, I went to the hospital in Bishop, and I was treated before
filling out the paperwork. Second, I visited the pet cemetery. Anybody
that has that much respect for their pets......just gotta be good people
there!