All flying tails are evil.
Al
It can lead you to all kinds of trickery..
Be extra careful if a black cat crosses your path on the tow out to the
flight line in your plane with all flying tail.
They dont call them "the all flying tail of doom" for nothing you know!!
Al
Shamen to the higher temple of fixed tailplane use.
(who occaisionaly goes to the dark side in a Nimbus2a)
Steve Waters
better. It will lead a ham-handed, excitable type astray but,usually,
you will return from the dark side once the force returns.
Cheers - Steve
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Larry Goddard
Now we know why you abhor "flying wings".... they are too much akin to the
"all-flying tails".
Larry
Sf760
you're going to ask for advise, make sure that the people you talk to have
actually flown with an all flying tail.
Ray Lovinggood
The LS-1, series c and d, have the "satanic" all-flying tail. The
folks at Rolladen-Schneider "saw the light" with the "f" model of the
LS-1 and gave it a proper tail that has a separate horizontal
stabilizer and elevator. That said, I must say that assembling the
stabilator on my LS-1d is a no-brainer and I do have fun flying it.
The real "satanic" item with the plane is the two-piece canopy. Your
Kestrel had a fixed front canopy, didn't it? Makes it a bitch to work
on the panel and rudder pedals and anything in general in the nose.
Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
LS-1d, "W8" as in "WAIT" for me!!
Al
about what the real issues were.
I really liked flying the N2a.
As for the 2 peice canopy I mean what were they thinking!!
your 100% right as far as anywork on the pedals/tow release/panel is a pain.
the Kestrel was great for flying in wave as it kept your feet real warm;-)
Al
"Ray Lovinggood" <rdlovi...@transystems.com> wrote in message
news:932q86$1gv$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Nolaminar
contours.
Note the "new" Flying Cow for glider test comparisons in Germany is a
DG-300. No blow holes and the old style split canopy.
GA
Nolaminar
The latest "Sacred Cow" is a newer DG-300 but without the blowholes AND it
has the old style DG split canopy.
GA
Bill Dean.
and down, very useful when you are flying on the same heading for long
periods.
Al <acro...@www.silentflight.com> wrote in message
news:t59st8a...@news.supernews.com...
DRBDANIELI
The first Kestrel's had the aft canopy going over the wing like the Libelle and
were made to open slightly while thermaling like the Libelle canopy. Although
it had great visibility to the tail the problem was poor sealing around the
wing root. Also it was cumbersome to handle on the ground without assistance
so the newer glass fairing and hinged arrangement was developed. The problem
then was with the canopy up, it could act as a magnifying glass and start a
cockpit fire but that was another story.......
Barry
Al
smell was coming from ;-)
Happy New Year Barry
Regards
Al
"DRBDANIELI" <drbda...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010104232918...@ng-cl1.aol.com...
Ruud J. Holswilder
Hi Al,
I have flown a ASW-15b with an all flying tail and never experienced
any trouble.
I also recall a special occasion after taxi-in with a Cessna Cardinal
RG (also with all flying tail) at Las Vegas.
The guy that drove me to the terminal told me he would never fly such
a Cessna because it may pull some nasty tricks on you when you stall
it on final approach.
I had no trouble with this beacuase ATC told me to fly at least 140
kts on final.
Just wandering why anyone would stall his plane on final...
Ruud.
New years message on:
http://home.soneraplaza.nl/mw/prive/hwl/beleggen/soaringassets.asf
Plays in M$ media player.
Richard Brisbourne
<bill...@freeuk.com> writes
>The Kestrel is also excellent in wave because of the good visibility behind
>and down, very useful when you are flying on the same heading for long
>periods.
>
sensation of being followed till you get used to it.
Best glider I had for warm feet in the wave was the DG200, with perspex
virtually all the way forward.
--
Richard Brisbourne
Andreas Maurer
>The problem
>then was with the canopy up, it could act as a magnifying glass and start a
>cockpit fire but that was another story.......
Most ASK-21 have burn holes somewhere in the panel... We cought ours
smoking twice.
Bye
Andreas
Al
Al
"Andreas Maurer" <mau...@funsystem.de> wrote in message
news:3a568ffe...@news.t-online.de...
Martin Gregorie
wrote:
Ours seems to like burning holes in the rear headrest. No marks on
either panel...yet.
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie.| Harlow
demon. | UK.
co. |
uk |
Kirk Stant
Embrace the force, Al...
They sure are nice going through the Mach!
And what would the Cadillac of gliders (the mighty 2-32) be like to fly (and
spin) without it's big beautiful slab?
If the germans had remembered the anti-servo tab when they put the flying
tails on the early Cirrus' and LS-1s we might still be flying with them...
Kirk
LS-6 "66"
Pulling G's at Turf, AZ
Robert Ehrlich
> If the germans had remembered the anti-servo tab when they put the flying
> tails on the early Cirrus' and LS-1s we might still be flying with them...
>
Can somebody explain what is this anti-servo tab ?
Richard Cooper
The combination revealed its worst self when we made the mistake of fitting a winch hook. The brute would dutch roll up the launch, and unless the back pressure was released, it would diverge and spin. The remedy, according to John Jeffries, was to use reflex flap on the winch, and it worked. After my 5-hours-a-year syndicate partner took it up the winch without briefing, and had a short but very spectacular flight, he gave up gliding, and the winch driver changed his underwear. Then I sold the brute.
It was also said to be prone to super stall on the winch, and this could also be cured by the use of flap, although the Australians banned the all moving tailplane and insisted on a conventional layout.
Providing you watched the brute, it was incredibly responsive and always exciting to fly, for the both pilot and the spectators, but I wouldn't recommend it as an early-solo machine. ('twas a pig to rig as well!)
I have also flown the BG 135, all-moving butterfly tail and 13.5m span. That, in comparison, was a little honey.
>
>>I have no gripes on All flying tails I just wanted to make everyone think about what the real issues were.
==============================================================
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==============================================================
Al
rated fully aerobatic.
The factory test pilot would not hesitate to push an outside loop in one too
just to show off to visitors.
Regards
Al
"Richard Cooper" <REMOVE_TO_RE...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:93dgnc$9utm5$1...@ID-49798.news.dfncis.de...
Don
Richard Cooper <REMOVE_TO_RE...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:93dgnc$9utm5$1...@ID-49798.news.dfncis.de...
> > I have also flown the BG 135, all-moving butterfly tail and 13.5m span.
That, in comparison, was a little honey.
*************
I guess that must have been one of the (few) later production models ? The
very first production model delivered to the Midland Gliding Club was rather
different. Testing it, the club professional ( the late Jack Minshall) said
it scared him more than anything he had ever flown. It just about came out
of a spin as he was getting ready to bail out.
It turned out that the design was OK but the manufacturing tolerances were
too great. The Birmingham Guild who built it were simply sheet metal
workers who had no experience of aircraft building. I seem to remember
though that the all flying V tail had a geared tab which of course is the
answer to providing stick-free stability on all flying tailplanes.
Don Brown
North Wales
UK
Visionflyr
>
It's a little easier to make a quick sketch than to explain. Here is a drawing
of one as applied to a standard horizontal/elevator combination but the same
concept applies with an all flying tail. I threw a sketch on my site at
http://VisionAircraft.com/antiservo.jpg
By offsetting a pushrod to a hinge line the relative distance to the trim
control horn changes and the trim tab can be used as a servo or an anti servo
trim. The servo trim is generally used in large control surface aircraft or
aerobatic planes to lighten the feel while the anti servo (as shown) adds a
strong centering tendency and makes the control feel heavier and more centered.
As the all flying tail has no stabilizer, the anti servo helps by adding this
effect.
Steve
http://VisionAircraft.com
Vision
Some will have it
Some will not
It's that simple!
Robert Ehrlich
>
> >Can somebody explain what is this anti-servo tab ?
> >
>
> It's a little easier to make a quick sketch than to explain. Here is a drawing
> of one as applied to a standard horizontal/elevator combination but the same
> concept applies with an all flying tail. I threw a sketch on my site at
> http://VisionAircraft.com/antiservo.jpg
>
> By offsetting a pushrod to a hinge line the relative distance to the trim
> control horn changes and the trim tab can be used as a servo or an anti servo
> trim. The servo trim is generally used in large control surface aircraft or
> aerobatic planes to lighten the feel while the anti servo (as shown) adds a
> strong centering tendency and makes the control feel heavier and more centered.
> As the all flying tail has no stabilizer, the anti servo helps by adding this
> effect.
>
Thanks. I was knowing the system without knowing the name. This tail surface
combination is the standard on the Robin DR400, which is one of the most used
tow plane in France.
thin_a...@my-deja.com
"The Devil made me do it!!" Sounds fair to me.
Cheers
-Dave
In article <t583d59...@news.supernews.com>,
Richard Friday
Snip
>
>It was also said to be prone to super stall on the winch, and this could
also be cured by the use of flap, although the Australians banned the all
moving tailplane and insisted on a conventional layout.
>
Just a quick correction on the above statement. The D model IS 29 was not
banned in Australia. The story of the IS 29 is long and convoluted and
surrounded in much myth and hearsay. Yes, it is prone to wing drop at
stall. There is little or no geometric washout as the aircraft was
originally intended for the aerobatic category but apparently ICA Brasov
did not pursue the paperwork (washout becomes washin when inverted and
unduly loads the outboard portion of the wings in the negative sense).
Agreed, it is not for low time pilots, but the anti servo tailplane is very
pleasant to fly. The elevator is light and responsive but has ample feel
due to the tab. Our club has a D2 on line with a conventional tail and to
be honest the flight characteristics are very similar. I do fly close to
the maximum cockpit loading though and this generally makes most aircraft
more docile than flying with a rearward C of G. I am intrigued about the
use of negative flap for winching.
I really do despair when I see the reputation of the IS29 perpetuated when
most of the accidents that I have researched were the result of incorrect
technique.
Richard F
IS29D
VH-GWC
George Emsden
gliders at slow speeds & to avoid the risk of a ground loop. Once the glider
has a decent airspeed & effective use of the ailerons, then the flaps can be
reset to 0 deg or whatever. HTH
--
George
"Richard Friday" <rfr...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:ZoV96.5694$65.3...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Raphael Warshaw
Richard Friday <rfr...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:ZoV96.5694$65.3...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
>
> >
> >It was also said to be prone to super stall on the winch, and this could
<snip>
I used to rent a Baby Lark with the conventional tail. I enjoyed flying it
and would still fly it if someone hadn't tried to land it cross-ways on a
road near the airport.
However, it did spin out from under me with no apparent warning (right turn,
full flaps, low speed). I was fussing with the water bottle and most likely
got slow. The wing dropped past vertical and it entered the spin "over the
top" and ended up spinning opposite the direction of the turn. I lost well
over 1000 feet of altitude. Fortunately I was high. Once I realized what
had happened, the recovery was normal.
Needless to say, the experience made me much more attentive close to the
stall and close to the ground. Anyone flying this airplane should, IMHO,
have spin training and use extra care close to the ground. That said, it is
enjoyable to fly, the flaps are fun to play with, and the view, especially
on tow and on approach with landing flaps, is great.
Raphael H. Warshaw
Claremont, CA