FAI, soaring and Olympic Games
iPilot
There have been several pro's and con's towards soaring in Olympics, but nobody argues that it'd
rise the popularity of the sport. So it is important for soaring community. Therefore my question is
following:
Wich way is soaring worse than sailing?
None of the cities that have organised Olympic games in the past would have any geographic troubles
on organising soaring competitions (Moscow had troubles with organising sailing competition which
had to be held in Tallinn - 900 km away).
None of the latest summer games that I remember have had such miserable weather that the competition
would have to be left unheld.
The main argument against soaring is the fact that equipment can make a difference here. Well. Here
is the challenge for igc. They have to face that their first trial of monoclass failed and they have
to try again. This time with relatively high-performing, yet still not expencive standard or 15m
class design.
As a matter of fact I don't believe that sailing deserves to have 9 different classes on Olympics
and soaring none. I personally think that FAI has failed bigtime to find the concensus amongst all
air sports to get air sports represented on Olympic games. It shall be the biggest argument towards
Olympic Commety - there's no air sports in Olympics nowadays. And the most suitable sport would be
soaring because it's competitive, not so dependent on equipment and directly measurable. Making
soaring TV-friendly shall not be a problem as well today. And with racing tasks only allowed on
olympics it shall be understandable for general public as well.
How can we do it?
Regards,
Kaido
COLIN LAMB
with loops, rolls and spins judged while synchronized, with points deducted
for less than perfect landings.
The new Sparrowhawk sailplane would be perfect for this event.
Colin
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Ted W
1) People must want to watch it, which means it must have a visual appeal
and must work on television. (Unfortunately, soaring might be the least
direct and television-friendly sport I can think of.)
2) It must demonstrate the above by successful participation in the
International World Games Association (IWGA), a collection of 30-odd Olympic
wanna-bes that have their games every 4 years, one year after the Olympic
games. (Think of the IWGA as the Olympic "farm system".) The 2005 IWGA will
be in Duisburg, Germany.
The IOC alway visits the IWGA to select which, if any, of the IWGA's sports
might be suitable for inclusion as demonstration sports at the next
Olympics.
If a sport manages to get selected as an Olympic demonstration sport, it
must then pass the test of succeeding in an actual Games. Good weather will
not be enough for soaring -- see (1) above. Like it or not, the Games are
about revenue, period.
The FAI has been working hard since the mid 1980s to get one of its
airsports into the Olympics. (Remember the "rings" freefall formation over
the opening ceremonies at the 1988 games.) Parachuting (4-way Formation
Skydiving and Accuracy Landing) has been an IWGA participant since Finland's
1997 games, and was the largest spectator ticket seller at the 2001 games in
Akita, Japan. (The Accuracy Landing event is very popular with spectators.)
Alas, the IOC elected not to include parachuting in the 2008 Beijing games,
so the FAI will be without a representative for at least 8 more years.
Interestingly, the 2005 IWGA will feature "Air sports: parachuting, gliding,
free flight (hang gliding, paragliding)". It might be worth a visit to the
FAI and IGC web sites to what form "gliding" will take at Duisburg. I'm
certainly looking forward to watching the results up close -- I'll be there
to support the parachuting events, but will be following the other air
sports closely.
More can be found at the IWGA web site: http://www.worldgames-iwga.org
-ted w.
"2NO"
"iPilot" <ipiloot_...@hot.ee> wrote in message
news:cfsijd$scm$1...@kadri.ut.ee...
Tony Verhulst
> There have been several pro's and con's towards soaring in Olympics, but nobody argues that it'd
> rise the popularity of the sport. So it is important for soaring community. Therefore my question is
> following:
>
> Wich way is soaring worse than sailing?
Because in sailing, you can "park" a bunch of boats, with the requisite
TV crews, along the couse line. People will be able to watch the event -
not so in soaring. Yes, I'm aware of the proposals to transmit GPS
coordinates of the competitors to be displayed in some fashion. It ain't
the same, IMHO.
For other would be Olympic events, see:
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=sportsNews&storyID=5746437
Bill Daniels
"Tony Verhulst" <tony.v...@hp.com> wrote in message
news:412220e4$1...@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
The only way I can see soaring as a spectator sport is as a very technical
one. Not only would it require real-time GPS tracking, it would require on
board TV cameras on every competitor. Several camera aircraft would be
needed to follow the leaders plus a staff of color commentators to explain
why the pilot in 3rd place is taking a big chance by passing up that 5 knot
thermal in an effort to claim 1st place.
You couldn't do it real-time, you would have to cut away to another sport
while the drama develops. Most of it would be edited recaps of the last
hour or so of the action with color commentary. Long final glides just
aren't very interesting except to the pilot.
The rules would have to be vastly simplified so the audience could
understand them. Start gates, finish gates, simple speed triangles and
maybe even free distance would interest the audience.
On the other hand, soaring is a visually compelling activity. There are
very talented videographers who could produce stunning video clips that
would hold a very large audience.
The technology to do it just barely exists and it the cost would be
astronomical. However, do it right and you would have half a billion people
from around the world on the edge of their seats.
I've got a feeling that it will happen sooner or later.
Bill Daniels
fado...@yahoo.com
How was gliding presented in the 1936 Olympic games?
Perhaps that could be the marketing hook: make Hitler's dream a
reality! Make gliding an olympic sport!
Mark James Boyd
medals or awards for endurance (long hours = crash).
I dunno, the sailing olympians all look like they're in great shape.
Pretty physical, that sport. And bosled even. I dunno if
soaring really meets the hardbody "Olympic" concept.
But hey, I guess there's no harm trying...I suppose an Olympic
"cluster ballooning" event would be nice too... :)
--
------------+
Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA
iPilot
don't say it currently does) with many other sports. At least I do not know
anyone who wants to watch 8days of constant swimming.
Your second point is good information, but in order to succeed soaring needs
to have a successful monoclass before and PW-5 just isn't that. We have to
get our own things ok before we jump to the IWGA. Otherwise we're just
another wannabies.
"Ted W" <tuno_...@pobox.comREMOVE> wrote in message
news:I_oUc.36717$865....@hydra.nntpserver.com...
nafod40
> It's been under discussion for several times, but I want to bring it up again.
While soaring is a sport, and it is competitive, I have a real hard time
viewing the participants as athletes. If you can sit in a lounge chair
for hours on end, playing Nintendo with a joystick, you've got the
athletic stamina and dexterity to be a gold medal soaring pilot.
Why isn't chess an Olympic sport? Or playing Doom on a Nintendo GameCube?
Tony Verhulst
> Olympics are athletic.
Well, that's the idea, anyway. I recently saw a picture of the US men's
archery team. To call their physiques anything close to "athletic" would
be a charitable.
Tony V.
scurry
> Your fist point is achievable and in theis regard soaring can compete (I
> don't say it currently does) with many other sports. At least I do not know
> anyone who wants to watch 8days of constant swimming.
>
> Your second point is good information, but in order to succeed soaring needs
> to have a successful monoclass before and PW-5 just isn't that. We have to
> get our own things ok before we jump to the IWGA. Otherwise we're just
> another wannabies.
Why a single class? To say its needed for the Olympics implies, to me,
that there is something wrong or unfair with current FAI classes. Any
racing is expensive, so I don't buy that as a valid argument. Lots of
people race Standard and 15 m class all over the world, the FAI has
experience with it, and one class racing doesn't occur naturally in the
international soaring world (WC is contrived, and 1-26 is US only). If
gliders are to be raced in the Olympics, our best bet is to propose a
class that's already established, with gliders already racing.
Shawn
fado...@yahoo.com
How bout the air rifle events? I bet they have really buff trigger
fingers.
Curtl33
>viewing the participants as athletes. If you can sit in a lounge chair
>for hours on end, playing Nintendo with a joystick, you've got the
>athletic stamina and dexterity to be a gold medal soaring pilot.
>
with this assessment.
Curt Lewis - 95 USA
Eric Greenwell
I think a lot of them would agree, but they'd all point out that
"stamina" and "dexterity" aren't on the list of things it takes to be a
good racing pilot.
And because of this, I don't think of soaring as an Olympic sport. It is
primarily a very mental/intellectual sport, not a primarily physical one
like most (all?) the olympic sports I'm familiar with. It isn't about
flying a sailplane well, for example (like an aerobatic pilot), it's
about guiding the glider to the right place at the right time, meaning
where the lift is.
--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA
scurry
I agree, but to paraphrase another poster, if it can be sold, and more
importantly can sell, it'll be good enough for the IOC.
Shawn
P.S. I've known a very good Laser racer who was decidedly un-athletic.
Curling, archery, and shooting are pretty light on athleticism as well
Kevin
which simply isnt true. The most competitive class, the Finn, is
similar to our 15m or Std class with designs within a rule.
Kevin Chrisnter 2c
iPilot
1. If you look at the recent winners in any soaring title championship, you can hardly find any
fatman. Actually, in order ta win, one has to mantain full concentration in long flights during hot
days and long competitions. Therefore one has to be in a very good physical form. Partly for same
reasons why no fatman can win in top car racing league.
2. All shooting activities (incl. archery, clay pigeon shooting, pistol and rifle events) in
olympics require far less physically from athletes. The same applies to Equestrian disciplines where
physical health does not make the difference. The same applies to sailing.
Regads,
Kaido
"nafod40" <non...@business.com> wrote in message news:41225C34...@business.com...
iPilot
this is what is avoided generally by IOC. The examples you made are just bad. Reasons? WC is flawed
in design philosophy and class requirements. I do not really see who it was made for - pilots who
hav necessary skills to compete have the skills to fly more complex aircraft than the oversimplified
WC design. 1-26 is morally and physically aged and US only.
Last but not least. Sailing wouldn't be represented in Olympics when they wouldn't have made
monoclass rules long time ago. And I do not think that there's possible to launch 3 different glider
monoclasses from day one. BTW monoclass does not equal single class. Monoclass is a class where only
one particular glider (like PW-5) is allowed to participate. 3 different monoclasses in olympics
would be super, but i do not believe that it is achievable in any foreseeable future. Maybe we shall
have monoclasses based on one standard class design and one 18 meter design. Maybe just to declare
one current design from both classes a standard and make the drawings available to everyone (that
doesn't answer the cost needs however).
There's nothing wrong with current FAI classes. Just the principles of competition are different. In
it's current form soaring is a form on technical sport. And to expect a techical sport to achieve
IOC accept is the same as to expect F1 racing to make it to the Olympics - never happens.
"scurry" <speriodthe...@bresnan.net> wrote in message
news:Ot2dnXMJtax...@bresnan.com...
iPilot
raiding. The argument just doesn't stand. Weirdest sport, one ca find in olympic programme (though,
winter programme) in this regard is curling imho.
"Eric Greenwell" <flyg...@charter.netto> wrote in message
news:10i5dl3...@corp.supernews.com...
iPilot
http://www.athens2004.com/Images/Olympic%20Sports%20Gallery/Shooting/1195527_b.jpg
"Mark James Boyd" <mjb...@cats.ucsc.edu> wrote in message news:412259a4$1@darkstar...
iPilot
"RULES of the INTERNATIONAL FINN CLASS 2004 Edition" say following in Part B "RULES AND
INTERPRETATIONS FOR THE CONTROL OF THE INTERNATIONAL FINN CLASS BOATS"
"Purpose of the Measurement Rules
1.1.1The Finn is a One-Design Class.
1.1.2 (74-1.1) (OR-1) The object of these rules is to establish a class of boats which is one-design
in all matters which affect
basic speed. The rules shall be interpreted in this spirit."
One-Desgn Class!!! Not some loosely specified standard class.
Basically the rules in Finn class are so strict that to transfer those to gliders class you get the
planes which have:
Same lenght
Same width
Exactly the same aerodynamic exterior of the fuselage
Exactly the same profile and the layout of the wing and the control surface.
Mostly the same materials in use.
Once again from Finn rules:
"Defining the hull shape requires use of a measurement jig to check length distances of the hull.
The jig should be
used during measurements at major championships and preferred for the first measurement of a boat,
particularly at builder's premises."
In case of soaring it compares to measuring the fuselage or wing profile in . Have you heard about
that anywhere?
In most places the permitted materials are listed.
If you are familiar with our standard class rules, it's a completly different philosophy
alltogether.
"Kevin" <k8dr...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:cfukh8$t...@odak26.prod.google.com...
nafod40
> I don't buy that argument.
>
> 1. If you look at the recent winners in any soaring title championship, you can hardly find any
> days and long competitions. Therefore one has to be in a very good physical form. Partly for same
> reasons why no fatman can win in top car racing league.
I was a military pilot, and I remember we had some hefty (to put it
mildly) fighter guys who looked like they would have a coronary just
hiking the four flights of stairs from 2nd deck to the flight deck on
the carrier. We'd do semi-annual PT, and they were pitiful. Watching
them do sit ups was like a scene from "Free Willy".
Yet these same guys could strap on an ejection seat and fly 12 hour
missions with multiple refuelings, some hi-G dog fighting, lots of
hanging on the blades, followed by a night trap. And they were *good*,
which is why the Skipper looked the other way as to their weight.
So in short, I have some data points that say you don't have to be fit.
You do have to be tough, though. Toughness is a different thing, in my
experience.
Tony Verhulst
> I do not think that soaring competes badly in this regard towards sailing, shooting and horse
> raiding.
Here, all this time I thought that horse raiding was a criminal act.
Now, I find out it's a sport :-).
Tony V
:-)
Jack
> 1-26 is morally and physically aged and US only.
Interesting thought: the "Old Morality" of the SGS 1-26 is a hindrance?
I would have thought honesty would be considered one of its best features.
As far as "aged" goes, I am twice as old as my 1-26E.
Jack
Charles Petersen
hot boats. Take as a good example, the Finn class, where sailors, who use
their
body weight 'hiking' (suspending themselves out over the side of the boat by
sitting on the deck with their feet tucked under straps, and leaning out
'til horizontal), to offset the force of the wind that seeks to heel (roll)
their boat, wear sweatshirts to soak up additional weight by immersing them
in the water. Each time the wind changes, they must scamper across the boat
while adjusting the sails and then get their weight out on the other side.
It is very gruelling! Studies at McMaster University Medical Research,
focused on the physical condition of sailors and its effect on their
performance, found that fatigue decreases the ability to concentrate and
make decisions on where to go, strategically and tactically, - not unlike
soaring.
For more detail, start at http://www.finnclass.org/
"iPilot" <ipiloot_...@hot.ee> wrote in message
news:cfv0fa$qb7$1...@kadri.ut.ee...
Tony
achieve IOC accept is the same as to expect F1 racing to make it to the
Olympics - never happens"
What's the different between racing sailplanes and sailboats - apart from
water and air? Both require technical and tactical skills. A monoclass
sailplane/sailboat comparison with F1 is invalid as competitors performance
in F1 is largely differentiated by the car.
I also think that with todays technology and some imagination, the 'gliding
is not a spectator sport' argument is weakened. Sure it is not lke watching
F1 go round a circuit where they pass by every two minutes, but there is no
reason why each glider could not be equipped to broadcast live video, GPS
co-ords, and telemetry, and the gaggles could be followed by helicopters
also broadcasting live.
Sailboat racing is not always exactly gripping neck-to-neck stuff but I'm
sure that a big gaggle would be as interesting for many viewers to watch as
a few sailboats rounding a buoy.
To promote our sport we need to be positive, and to exploit technology and
creativity to present it to viewers as the exciting, challenging and
adrenalin pumping sport that it is.
"iPilot" <ipiloot_...@hot.ee> wrote in message
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Robert Danewid
the Olympic Games is parachuting.
Robert
iPilot wrote:
> It's been under discussion for several times, but I want to bring it up again.
>
Bob Korves
motorcycles, Formula V, CanAm, etc.
His observation, which is perhaps counterintuitive, was that the tighter
rules a class has, the more expensive it is to win. For instance, he said
that with Formula V, a class designed to be simple and cheap, if you don't
have a chassis dynamometer you cannot win. The rules are too tight to win
otherwise. With CanAm, which had bigger and faster cars but was a wide open
class WRT rules, cleverness in design could easily win the day without huge
expense.
We might keep this concept in mind with regard to glider class rules.
Actually the FAI classes have pretty simple rules which leave room for
clever engineering design.
There will always be someone with more money. Platypus says "There is a
substitute for span, it is called skill. But you can buy span."
-Bob Korves
"Tony" <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:UwQUc.1761$CT4....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Stewart Kissel
To promote our sport we need to be positive, and to
exploit technology and
creativity to present it to viewers as the exciting,
challenging and
adrenalin pumping sport that it is.
Without sounding too snide, I would think submarine
racers might say the same thing about there sport...and
it could very well be true. But translating that to
outsiders is a different issue. Face it, if most
soaring pilots are not interested in watching sailplane
races...I suspect the general TV viewing population
might find it a tough sale.
Eric Greenwell
> I have a friend who raced all sorts of things -- 50cc Grand Prix
> motorcycles, Formula V, CanAm, etc.
>
> His observation, which is perhaps counterintuitive, was that the tighter
> rules a class has, the more expensive it is to win. For instance, he said
> that with Formula V, a class designed to be simple and cheap, if you don't
> have a chassis dynamometer you cannot win.
Bad example: Formula V is MUCHMUCHMUCH cheaper than CanAm cars! You
can't even buy an engine for a CanAm car for the price of a Formula V.
Sheez! They use PLENTY of dyno time in that class. You don't need to own
a dyno to do well in Formula V, just rent some time on one, or take it
to a track during the testing period and use some simple instrumentation
to accomplish the same thing. Because of the restrictive rules, spending
a lot of money gains you very little, unlike the less limited classes
where spending a lot of money gains you quite a bit.
Unless the rules have changed dramatically since I raced Formula V (in
which case they would no longer be very restrictive rules), it's a
relatively cheap class because the cars are light and low powered, so
the engine and tires hold up well. The small size of the cars and the
high minimum weight requirement makes makes their construction simple
and cheap.
The rules are too tight to win
> otherwise.
You can spend a pile of money, but in Formula V, one properly done pass
using the "draft" behind another car totally outweighs that money. Been
there, done that, watched it happen many times.
> With CanAm, which had bigger and faster cars but was a wide open
> class WRT rules, cleverness in design could easily win the day without huge
> expense.
Absolute nonsense. The cost of a quality team to come up with this
"cleverness in design" is enormous, and the cost of maintaining these
cars that truly live on the edge of destruction each race is enormous.
Check the decals on a CanAm car and Formula V to see the kind of
sponsorship it takes to field one of those cars competitively. Millions!
There is simply no comparison with Formula V. I think you have totally
misunderstood the situation.
> We might keep this concept in mind with regard to glider class rules.
> Actually the FAI classes have pretty simple rules which leave room for
> clever engineering design.
Does an ASW 28 cost less than a PW5? Of course not! Does the "clever
engineering" of the ASW 28 give it a big edge in it's class? No way! Get
real: what an less restricted class does is make everyone pay big bucks
for a craft that isn't any better than the competitors, unless he has
shells out even bigger bucks. You could build a PW5 that cost twice what
the "off the shelf" models cost, but it would be impossible to measure
the improvement over one owned by a pilot that spent some time and much
less money to tweak his plain old PW5.
>
> There will always be someone with more money. Platypus says "There is a
> substitute for span, it is called skill. But you can buy span."
> -Bob Korves
And span is expensive! That is why the restricted classes in many fields
appeal to people: people with ONLY skill can afford the equipment that
lets them demonstrate that skill. I can easily afford a Formula V, but I
don't think I'd want to spend the money to do well in the next step up,
which was Formula Ford, and maybe still is. It cost ("back then") twice
or three times as much to run a Formula Ford than a Formula V, and the
Formula Atlantic cars were way above that.
tango4
<fado...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cftqnf$e...@odbk17.prod.google.com...
Mark James Boyd
out of a glider and trying to hit a target seems like an excellent
way to "exploit technology and creativity," and is certainly exciting
and fun to watch.
Of course, there are SOME cheaters, who soak it in water and freeze it
right before throwing it out the window...NOT VERY SPORTING!!!
But an excellent way to get the observers at the target excited...
:PPPPPP
Mark
In article <2oiatgF...@uni-berlin.de>,
iPilot
jundgement by the judges to get scored and thus are not directly measurable in minutes, seconds,
kilometers or whatever units available.
"Robert Danewid" <robert....@segelflyget.se> wrote in message
news:laQUc.891$d5....@newsb.telia.net...
Liam Finley
of the sport, where the real potential is in the assembling and
disassembling aspect of the sport.
Assembling and disassembling gliders is physically strenuous, and is
fascinating for spectators who are amazed that an airplane can be fit
in such a small trailer. It can be done in any weather and location.
And it can be a team effort.
iPilot
main factor that makes the difference".
"Charles Petersen" <cfp...@total.net> wrote in message news:2ohq6sF...@uni-berlin.de...
tango4
> Please, give a bit reasoning. For me, it seems that parachuting events
involve mostly some
> jundgement by the judges to get scored and thus are not directly
measurable in minutes, seconds,
> kilometers or whatever units available.
>
>
Pretty much the same as synchronised diving!
Ian
iPilot
terms: "what to do in order to get soaring to olympic games" instead of "which ways we do not apply"
which seems to be common here?
BTW. I didn't compare monoclass soaring to F1 racing. I compared soaring in its current form
(relatively loosely defined classes) to F1. For me it seems actually that F1 is far more restricted
rules wise than any glider class out there besides WC (but of course - it's not a monoclass by far).
Money makes the difference there.
I totally agree with you in other areas.
"Tony" <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:UwQUc.1761$CT4....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Eric Greenwell
And, apparently, ice skating.
Tony
equally applied to one or more other sports that are already included in the
Olympics, so I don't consider them to be valid - unless there are so many of
them that the cumulative effect is to make gliding's participation
unfeasible.
Which body is responsible for pushing for gliding to be included in the
olympics? Is it the FAI? Perhaps this is a problem as they are lobbying on
behalf of multiple air sports rather than focusing on one?
Has the FAI, IGC, or any other national or international body ever
commissioned sports broadcasting consultants to investigate how new
technology could be expoited to present and promote gliding competitions?
Aparently one country has been trying grand-prix synchronised starts. I'm
sure that would be an option for making the racing clearer to the
uneducated observer while at the same time providing for exciting TV
viewing. Synchonised starts, gaggles with individual trying to break away
and take a lead, and finish line beat-ups. I'm sure that it would be of
interest to more than die-hard glider pilots.
"Stewart Kissel" <REMOVE_TO_REPL...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:2oiatgF...@uni-berlin.de...
Paul
84 gliders release a set distance and height from the venue all at the same
time.
They final glide to the finish line which is on the boundary fence. Extra
bonus points for using ground effect for the last three kilometres. Tall
trees and power lines for added skill test.
They can either land straight through or pull up for a dodgy circuit, then
attempt to land next to their trailers which are lined up down one side of
the runway with tops up and fuse dollys in place. Trailers are spaced six
meters apart. Their 3 man/women crews then have to clear them off the runway
or if the pilot is skillfull enough he boots on some rudder and tries to
park on the fuse dolly. Extra points for this. Then as pilot extracts
himself the crew set to work derigging the glider and storing in the
trailer. The winner is the one whos trailer top is down the fastest from the
release time and has the least penaltys. Penaltys are for hitting other
crews while landing and groundlooping.
Good crowd appeal. Everything happens within sight of the stands. Don't need
soarable weather so could be a winter games event as well. ( Ice lake would
really turn up the excitment ) Team event as well as individual. It is the
best part of the whole contest thing as far as spectator appeal goes.
I saw this once at the German nationals and its very entertaining.
"Liam Finley" <fado...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d14b8f27.04081...@posting.google.com...
Bob Korves
about sports that I am not really familiar with. Nonetheless, that is how
my very experienced friend explained it to me.
-Bob Korves
"Eric Greenwell" <flyg...@charter.netto> wrote in message
news:10i80ar...@corp.supernews.com...
(snip)
Bruce Hoult
"Paul" <paul_b...@nospamxtra.co.nz> wrote:
> Hows this for a format.
>
> 84 gliders release a set distance and height from the venue all at the same
> time.
> They final glide to the finish line which is on the boundary fence. Extra
> bonus points for using ground effect for the last three kilometres. Tall
> trees and power lines for added skill test.
> They can either land straight through or pull up for a dodgy circuit, then
> attempt to land next to their trailers which are lined up down one side of
> the runway with tops up and fuse dollys in place. Trailers are spaced six
> meters apart. Their 3 man/women crews then have to clear them off the runway
> or if the pilot is skillfull enough he boots on some rudder and tries to
> park on the fuse dolly. Extra points for this. Then as pilot extracts
> himself the crew set to work derigging the glider and storing in the
> trailer. The winner is the one whos trailer top is down the fastest from the
> release time and has the least penaltys. Penaltys are for hitting other
> crews while landing and groundlooping.
>
> Good crowd appeal. Everything happens within sight of the stands. Don't need
> soarable weather so could be a winter games event as well. ( Ice lake would
> really turn up the excitment ) Team event as well as individual. It is the
> best part of the whole contest thing as far as spectator appeal goes.
>
> I saw this once at the German nationals and its very entertaining.
Especially for those with glider repair businesses! ;-)
-- Bruce
--
Bruce | 41.1670S | \ spoken | -+-
Hoult | 174.8263E | /\ here. | ----------O----------
LarSwan
>the Olympic Games is parachuting.
>
>Robert
While I've never flown one myself, I wonder if hanggliding/parasailing would
make more Olympic friendly sport vs my beloved hardwinged soaring. Better TV
close-ups of thinner competitors faces/bodies, more colorful equipment, more
muscles used for control and landing, more percieved danger, more creative
options for required preliminaries events and room for individual expression.
Noting the influx of retired hang gliding pilots into our form of soaring...the
best way to promote soaring at the Olympics is to play our best card which may
be our hanggliding brothers. The media already preferences their images over
ours, go with it.
LT
scurry
>>I am a gliding fanatic, but I think that the most suitable air sport for
>>the Olympic Games is parachuting.
>>
>>Robert
>
>
> While I've never flown one myself, I wonder if hanggliding/parasailing would
> make more Olympic friendly sport vs my beloved hardwinged soaring. Better TV
> close-ups of thinner competitors faces/bodies, more colorful equipment, more
> muscles used for control and landing, more percieved danger, more creative
> options for required preliminaries events and room for individual expression.
And a downhill event.
>
> Noting the influx of retired hang gliding pilots into our form of soaring...the
> best way to promote soaring at the Olympics is to play our best card which may
> be our hanggliding brothers. The media already preferences their images over
> ours, go with it.
Nice to imagine gliders in the Olympics, but I suspect you're right.
Shawn
Richard Brisbourne
> Hows this for a format.
>
> 84 gliders release a set distance and height from the venue all at the
> same time.
> They final glide to the finish line which is on the boundary fence. Extra
> bonus points for using ground effect for the last three kilometres. Tall
> trees and power lines for added skill test.
> They can either land straight through or pull up for a dodgy circuit, then
> attempt to land next to their trailers which are lined up down one side of
> the runway with tops up and fuse dollys in place. Trailers are spaced six
> meters apart. Their 3 man/women crews then have to clear them off the
> runway or if the pilot is skillfull enough he boots on some rudder and
> tries to park on the fuse dolly. Extra points for this. Then as pilot
> extracts himself the crew set to work derigging the glider and storing in
> the trailer. The winner is the one whos trailer top is down the fastest
> from the release time and has the least penaltys. Penaltys are for hitting
> other crews while landing and groundlooping.
>
> Good crowd appeal. Everything happens within sight of the stands. Don't
> need soarable weather so could be a winter games event as well. ( Ice lake
> would really turn up the excitment ) Team event as well as individual. It
> is the best part of the whole contest thing as far as spectator appeal
> goes.
>
> I saw this once at the German nationals and its very entertaining.
>
Backwards trailer races are great fun as well.
--
Soar the big sky
The real name on the left is richard
Robert Danewid
Robert
iPilot
racing, american wrestling etc. kind of sports on games. Nothing like that.
"Robert Danewid" <robert....@segelflyget.se> wrote in message
news:1ztVc.101378$dP1.3...@newsc.telia.net...
Tony
opens at a certain time and all speeds are calculated from that start time -
just like sail boar racing?
There is no reason why gliders or support aircraft could not transmit live
video.
Why are glider pilots so keen to list technical reasons why broadcasting our
sport might be difficult rather than looking for solutions?
Anyone who watched the sailng at the olympics would have seen that with
boats taking in different directions, it was just about anyones guess as to
who was leading whom untill they rounded their waypoints (markers). I don't
hear many sailors detailing why they sport is not suitable for broadcast.
"Tony Verhulst" <tony.v...@hp.com> wrote in message
news:412220e4$1...@usenet01.boi.hp.com...
>
> > There have been several pro's and con's towards soaring in Olympics, but
nobody argues that it'd
> > rise the popularity of the sport. So it is important for soaring
community. Therefore my question is
> > following:
> >
> > Wich way is soaring worse than sailing?
>
> Because in sailing, you can "park" a bunch of boats, with the requisite
> TV crews, along the couse line. People will be able to watch the event -
> not so in soaring. Yes, I'm aware of the proposals to transmit GPS
> coordinates of the competitors to be displayed in some fashion. It ain't
> the same, IMHO.
>
> For other would be Olympic events, see:
> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=sportsNews&storyID=5746437
>
> Tony V.
> http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING
For Example John Smith
that they don't constitute a 'single class'? It seems to me that this is
the fallacy that is tripping us up and pushed the sport into developing the
PW5 WCG. When the differences are so minor--this one's .05% better on the
run; this one a .0237% better climber--why not just declare them for
purposes of the sport to be a single class and 'run whatcha brung' w/out
handicapping?
Who defines the sport? The people in it or the Olympics folks? If it is in
our power let's make the change and have Olympic racers in sleek modern
ships.
I think the combination of tiny in-ship, wingtip or tail mounted camers
combined with helicopters outside the turnpoints and gps transmitters could
make for great TV.
Note: I was a co-owner of a PW5 for 3-4 years and now fly a 27 yr. old
Glasflugel design.
"Tony" <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:j_JWc.10$k4...@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
Chris OCallaghan
You've described what was once called the "shotgun" start, as
practiced at the 15M Nationals in Chester SC, 1988. All I can say is
Yikes!!! Scariest thing I've ever done in a sailplane. Sixty gliders
flying at 100+ knots at cloudbase in a confined area. Close second to
that was the implosion finish back in the days when you were penalized
for being overtime on a POST. Gliders arriving at the finish line from
all points on the compass at the same time. I understand the people on
the ground loved it! Glider demolition derby.
Eric Greenwell
> Are the differences between current model 15 meter ships really so great
> that they don't constitute a 'single class'? It seems to me that this is
> the fallacy that is tripping us up and pushed the sport into developing the
> PW5 WCG.
Maybe not - remember the concept started 20 years ago, when things
seemed different. I sort of recall gliders coming out then with
noticeable improvements, and I think there was a feeling among many that
we were on a treadmill of increasingly expensive gliders (but not better
contests) if we didn't do something. Judging the start of the WC by what
you see today will lead to a bad analysis.
When the differences are so minor--this one's .05% better on the
> run; this one a .0237% better climber--why not just declare them for
> purposes of the sport to be a single class and 'run whatcha brung' w/out
> handicapping?
As I've mentioned in another posting, I agree with the argument that we
already have at least two de facto one-design classes: the Standard and
15 meter.
--
Gary Boggs
So why do we have to have a one design contest for the Olympics?
Why not just make it a handicapped contest using the current fleet?
For Example John Smith
"Gary Boggs" <wave...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:10ipcvf...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> So why do we have to have a one design contest for the Olympics?
That's exactly my point and it sounds like you and Eric at least agree
>
> Why not just make it a handicapped contest using the current fleet?
>
Here we have a minor disagreement. Eric and I are saying that no
handicapping is required. We (the sport of soaring) just define 15m as a
monoclass and Standard as a monoclass.
There, now we're ready. Olympics 2008 will include 2 sailplane racing
classes - Standard and 15 Meter.
Oops, forgot rules. Same as for the World's I suppose?
For Example John Smith
based on current trends.
Anybody want to buy any 4 year old .com business plans?
Brent
"Eric Greenwell" <flyg...@charter.netto> wrote in message
news:10injjn...@corp.supernews.com...
Chris OCallaghan
to be included, it should only come after car racing, horse racing,
speedboat racing, soapbox derbying, street luge, bmx, skateboarding,
rock climbing, hang gliding, paragliding, skydiving, airplane
aerobatics, and a dozen or so other like sports more popular than
sailplaning. The Olympics already serves enough arcane sports. At
least those carry with them a sense of antiquity. New sports really
should be added based on participation as well as suitability to the
Olympic ideal. We don't much rate on either count.
To put it another way, if you toss an iron frisbee or hurl yourself
into sand boxes, you really need something like an Olympic gold medal
to justify the effort. Soaring has its own unique rewards that need no
extra adornments.
Gary Boggs
be competitive. I always thought that one of the reasons to have an Olympic
contest was to test the pilots, not the plane or the pocket book. Having a
handicapped contest would open it up to more than just those who could
afford the latest designs.
"For Example John Smith" <dilbe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10ipqmo...@corp.supernews.com...
Andreas Maurer
<wave...@charter.net> wrote:
>But then we're back to having to have the latest (most expensive) design to
>be competitive. I always thought that one of the reasons to have an Olympic
>contest was to test the pilots, not the plane or the pocket book. Having a
>handicapped contest would open it up to more than just those who could
>afford the latest designs.
Showjumping also uses pretty expensive designs - these horses are
easily twice as expensive as the most expensive glider, and here also
the "pilot" is only doing half of the job. Yet the sport seems to
work...
Bye
Andreas
Gary Boggs
one of the biggest obstacles to growth in our sport. Many people think that
you have to be rich to fly or compete in sailplanes and it keeps them away
from our sport. When they find out that they can join a club and soar
relatively reasonably, they are very surprised. One of the original goals
of the World Class was that the sailplane be "reasonably" priced and I agree
with that. I see having Soaring as an Olympic sport being an avenue for
getting more exposure and more people thinking about becoming involved in
Soaring. I think our sport suffers from underexposure. I think it would
benefit us all if a few thousand more sailplanes were built and sold world
wide every year.
Gary Boggs
"Andreas Maurer" <alph...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:dndri0dgh77u6nl8t...@4ax.com...
stephanevdv
Eric Greenwell wrote:
> As I've mentioned in another posting, I agree with the argument that
> we already have at least two de facto one-design classes: the
> Standard and 15 meter
Listening to the comments of the competitors in last year's World
Gliding Championships at Leszno, I think many of them would disagree.
For example, many Discus 2 and Ventus 2 drivers would try to fly the
"a" type with the smaller fuselage, even if they needed a shoehorn to
get into it. With the same wing, the difference should be marginal
compared to the "b" type, but...
--
stephanevdv
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via OziPilots Online [ http://www.OziPilotsOnline.com.au ]
- A website for Australian Pilots regardless of when, why, or what they fly -
For Example John Smith
a) the differences in performance between modern ships are tiny (no
handicapping required)
b) the annual incremental advance is small
c) the population of modern ships is large (enough)
Therefore, there's no need to design & build a WC ship--we already have two
designs that qualify--15M and Standard.
Brent
"Gary Boggs" <wave...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:10ipvqb...@corp.supernews.com...
Eric Greenwell
> Eric Greenwell wrote:
>
>>As I've mentioned in another posting, I agree with the argument that
>>we already have at least two de facto one-design classes: the
>>Standard and 15 meter
>
>
> Listening to the comments of the competitors in last year's World
> Gliding Championships at Leszno, I think many of them would disagree.
> For example, many Discus 2 and Ventus 2 drivers would try to fly the
> "a" type with the smaller fuselage, even if they needed a shoehorn to
> get into it. With the same wing, the difference should be marginal
> compared to the "b" type, but...
There are differences between the various gliders, but they are quite
small (I'd guess at 1% or less in overall speed), and even the
competitors don't agree which glider has the advantage. If they did, we
really would have a one-design class, as every pilot would show up with
the same glider.
Is anyone really interested in closing that 1% gap? I don't think so.
Bob Kuykendall
tradition.
The scoring unit would be the milliHelen, with one awarded for each
launching of one ship. The winner is the team gets to a thousand
first.
Bob "face the music" K.
Denis
> There, now we're ready. Olympics 2008 will include 2 sailplane racing
> classes - Standard and 15 Meter.
> Oops, forgot rules. Same as for the World's I suppose?
Allow a small delay for rules. Say, till Olympics 2009 ;-) ?
--
Denis
R. Parce que ça rompt le cours normal de la conversation !!!
Q. Pourquoi ne faut-il pas répondre au-dessus de la question ?
Denis
> There are differences between the various gliders, but they are quite
> small (I'd guess at 1% or less in overall speed), and even the
> competitors don't agree which glider has the advantage.
Yes. Most competitors I've heard agree other gliders have definitively
an advantage over their ;-)
iPilot
Moreover. I don't believe that they'll ever make it.
Monoclasses are preferred in sailing because that made it possible to gain
large presence in Olympics.
"For Example John Smith" <dilbe...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:10is743...@corp.supernews.com...
Tony
"iPilot" <ipiloot_...@hot.ee> wrote in message
news:cfsijd$scm$1...@kadri.ut.ee...
> It's been under discussion for several times, but I want to bring it up
again.
>
> There have been several pro's and con's towards soaring in Olympics, but
nobody argues that it'd
> rise the popularity of the sport. So it is important for soaring
community. Therefore my question is
> following:
>
> Wich way is soaring worse than sailing?
>
Tony
I can see the danger in everyone trying to squeeze through a narrow gate at
the same time. Would a longer gate - say 10km perpendicular to the first TP
track help?
"Chris OCallaghan" <fiveni...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:236582a0.04082...@posting.google.com...
Chris OCallaghan
"tee" at a given time. Sixty gliders all snapping a pic and rolling
out on course (a POST) to all points of the compass directly above the
airport.
A curved start line of 10k length is an interesting thought, but the
herd instinct prevails. Pilots will wait in the available lift, and a
large number will try to position themselves with certain contest IDs.
Pilot selected start times seem the best way to keep the density
lower, though never low.
"Tony" <nos...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<%F5Zc.249$ud2...@newsfe6-win.ntli.net>...
prosp...@gmail.com
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dallasha...@gmail.com
http://workingcheats2014.info/school-of-dragons-cheats/
Sean Fidler
ND
> How was gliding presented in the 1936 Olympic games?
>
> Perhaps that could be the marketing hook: make Hitler's dream a
> reality! Make gliding an olympic sport!
that's sick.
ND
> >While soaring is a sport, and it is competitive, I have a real hard time
> >viewing the participants as athletes. If you can sit in a lounge chair
> >for hours on end, playing Nintendo with a joystick, you've got the
> >athletic stamina and dexterity to be a gold medal soaring pilot.
> >
> I don't think you will get a single serious racing pilot in the world to agree
> with this assessment.
>
> Curt Lewis - 95 USA
agreed!
ND
> SNIP-
> To promote our sport we need to be positive, and to
> exploit technology and
> creativity to present it to viewers as the exciting,
> challenging and
> adrenalin pumping sport that it is.
> SNIP
>
> Without sounding too snide, I would think submarine
> racers might say the same thing about there sport...and
> it could very well be true. But translating that to
> outsiders is a different issue. Face it, if most
> soaring pilots are not interested in watching sailplane
> races...I suspect the general TV viewing population
> might find it a tough sale.
i feel like if there were glider races on tv just like there is golf on the golf channel, every damn one of us would tune in.
Martin Gregorie
sport can be hard. I was heavily involved in competitive Free Flight
model flying when we were getting airsports recognised by the UK Sports
Council (its been a good deal for gliding too, but I digress).
The SAs were unconvinced that Free Flight was a sport (during each of the
seven one hour round in a day you make a flight, which usually involves
lobbing it up in a wind, following it downwind, retrieving it from
anything up to two miles away and getting back in time to fly again in
the next round. There's a scoring limit of 3 minutes of these flights.
Then, if more than one flyer has a perfect score, they get to do more
flights that evening with the scoring times increasing for each flyoff
until there is a winner. The SA view was that there was little sporting
prowess involved in getting the model trimmed, lift picking or launching
into lift and that the effort involved in retrieving models after each
flight was irrelevant to the sporting performance.
However, they were more than happy to agree that standing and twiddling
the sticks on an RC transmitter or spinning on the spot while controlling
a control line model were obviously worthy sporting skills.
On that basis I'd say that piloting a glider is most definitely a sport.
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
Sean
Sean
gregg...@gmail.com
> What did you all think about the recent Soaring International article (Nov, 2016 issue) on the value of re-starting the sport of glider racing in the Olympics. I for one think this would be very, very smart with minimal downside.
>
> Sean
Best way to increase gliding participation would be to hire product researchers with a reliable personality scale(not the ones on social media) give it to multi decade soaring obsessed and see what populations share their proclivities. Plenty of people that would love soaring but they aren't airplane pilot types, don't know that they would love soaring and thus only a handful find soaring by luck.
BobW
> On Sunday, October 30, 2016 at 6:40:30 PM UTC-4, Sean wrote:
>> What did you all think about the recent Soaring International article
>> (Nov, 2016 issue) on the value of re-starting the sport of glider racing
>> in the Olympics. I for one think this would be very, very smart with
>> minimal downside.
>>
>> Sean
>
> Pointless. Having your sport in the Olympics is just about ego. How many
> new sailors does the Olympics produce? Probably not many and sailing gets
> a boost because sailing can get Jr into a better college than his academics
> warrant. And sailing is something normal people and likely someone you
> know has done. Gliding is a freak sport done by eccentric freaks in funny
> hats. Doubt any of the freak sports that are included get a boost from the
> Olympics.
bounds thanks to its Olympic exposure, often getting as many as one or two new
recruits in a single year!!! AND its practitioners wear funny hats, too!
:)
Bob W.
Sean
Actually, Olympic sailing motivates many, many thousands of junior sailors worldwide to focus on the goal of qualifying for the Olympics. And this has a significant impact on youth sailing programs in the USA (massive growth) over the past 5-10 years, High School sailing teams'(growing rapidly in the USA over the past 10 years) and college sailing teams which have grown moderately. The US Sailing (SSA of sailing) effort to grow youth and high school sailing is directly related to Olympic sailing. They recruit and fund the US Jr Olympic development team and the side effect is that it provides the US as much larger pool of talent to develop. Thousands of kids have this in mind as they progress into the sport at early youth levels.
I say competition is good. At all levels. This adds to the growth and keeps kids in the sport longer. The Olympics are a big deal to kids. It's recognizable. Little about the sport of gliding is.
Gliding, especially in the US, is really poor when It comes to developing youth interest. As an organization the SSA has nearly hit rock bottom in this function. In fact, it may already be a lost cause. But Europeans and other FAI countries would probably enjoy an Olympic event to shoot for. But they don't appear to be working very hard for it either.
The Olympics would hurt nothing. But being part of the Olympics is a huge deal for many sports. Especially small ones. The initial upside of a new Olympic category for gliding is high when compared to to low cost of supporting the Olympic test event (the first step in this process). If successful, Gliding could be re-introduced into the Olympics. That would provide an opportunity for great exposure (major media, nationalistic pride, youth interest, exposure otherwise impossible) for the sport, especially outside (key) of the current demographics (tiny). That would be good, if not great for soaring.
I'm personally very positive about this idea. I find it curious that the FAI and IGC have not pursued this any further. It seems like a no brainer really.
The FAI is trying to do it from scratch with SGP, for example. Very difficult. But the Olympics has a massive pre-built audience to tap into. If you combined the two fomats, it could get a massive boost.
It would also be great for the sailplane manufacturer who is selected to build the gliders selected for the Olympic gliding competition. Sales of dozens of new gliders would be likely. Perhaps hundreds.
And, of course, it would be damn fun for the athletes/pilots and fans. Soaring has an exceptional visual appeal and "exoticness" that is second to none. And soaring would also be the only aviation sport in the Olympics. I would be surprised if paragliding or hang-gliding doesn't win the race however as we have wasted tons of time doing nothing, or have already given up apparently. Maybe it's time to make another proposal?
gregg...@gmail.com
Sean
Bruce Hoult
> What did you all think about the recent Soaring International article (Nov, 2016 issue) on the value of re-starting the sport of glider racing in the Olympics. I for one think this would be very, very smart with minimal downside.
How many summer Olympics are held near to good soaring? I guess maybe, if it can be a couple of hundred km away.
The glider racing at the Dubai air games was a joke.
Pat Russell
Gliding and the Olympics have evolved in opposite directions since 1940. Gliding has left the hill and disappeared out of view, while the Olympics have left amateurism and embraced the television viewer.
"New" sports that don't play well on TV have no chance in the Olympics. The IOC even tried to drop wrestling in favor of ballroom dancing a few years ago. After vociferous protests, they somehow found the ability to include both.
FAI and IOC are neighbors in Lausanne. They do talk with each other. There is some hope that paramotors or canopy piloting will make it as Olympic "test events."
But Gliding... no.
Frank Whiteley
> Not sure what FAIs end game strategy is with SGP yet...the right producer and it's off to the races...and yes, I've talked to several producers. Longshot is an understatement but you never know...
The World Class adopted the PW-5 and it was flown in the WAG in Turkey. As a design class, it could be produced by anyone, which seemed a purist approach. I don't now what international competitions say about skiis, rifles, sailing boats, and other equipment sports. Anyway, apart from the WAG, the PW-5 and World Class did not inspire a majority of participants. Many others opined the World Class should have been based on a 40:1 glider, the LS-4, which is one or, if not the most produced, single seater. WGC adoption might have kept it production for many more years.
The Chile SGP and the Italian WAG 2009 both used Yellowbrick.com for real time tracking solutions, though I think both used different display servers. IIRC, over 5000 remote viewers watched these real time, so the displays were slightly different though both were excellent and engaging to the point where you could see pilots make divergent (and sometimes wrong) decisions. Spot and InReach are not comparable. Yellowbrick was not cheap. Helicopters and live feeds are not cheap, so sponsorship and advertising would be needed to make it happen. Probably out of the question for qualifiers. However, looking forward to about 2020, there may be opportunities.
On the technical side, satellite MUX space is still limited. Iridium NEXT has yet to fly, but it could open the door for real time cockpit video. Whether there are other options affordable and available, I can't say. Kind of like the dark (unlit) fiber infrastructure. Kind of hard to find out who and where. I'm locally aware of optical fiber that's been around for a long time, but never lit, despite the fees paid to bring high speed Internet to the masses. I still feel like I'm in frontier land and now Google has stalled on their Google fiber.
Gee, if only pilots could live (or slightly buffer) feed their soaring flights to their Facebook pages. This could be possible by 2020, just around the corner.
Frank Whiteley
Bruce Hoult
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc_aUMLEwNk
I thought the computer graphics at that event were superior to those that have followed.
bythes...@gmail.com
Not sure why you think live feed video is far away?
WH
Bruce Hoult
> Last week I was watching live video feed from Warren Crammer from Wurtsburo flying in thier ASK21. I could hear him talking to me and I was texting him (while someone else was flying of coarse).
>
> Not sure why you think live feed video is far away?
Dan Marotta
tattoos, grow beards, quit getting haircuts, spit and cuss a lot, have
girl groupies with big boobs and low cut necklines... It'd be a hit for
sure! Where do I sign up?
On 10/30/2016 11:09 PM, Sean wrote:
> Not sure what FAIs end game strategy is with SGP yet...the right producer and it's off to the races...and yes, I've talked to several producers. Longshot is an understatement but you never know...
Dan, 5J
Sean
I think you miss the point of Dubai entirely Bruce. You may be thinking only of yourself, and even then only conventionally.
If we want soaring to grow substantially then we really need dramatically more poeple to notice it. To get interested in it. We need dramatically more exposure. Assuming we found a means of increasing public exposure (and image) of soaring...out of that pool, a few might get inspired to try it. Out of that few, some will get their license and so on.
These events, such as Dubai and the Olympics, are aimed at gaining exposure for the sport of soaring. They are aimed at demonstrating how soaring competitions work to the public and honoring the athletes & teams and ultimately the champions.
The Americas Cup has adapted itself to fit the TV format required to build advertising value. They run very short, fast, exciting races in a stadium environment as much as possible. This has raised awareness of the sport of sailboat racing dramatically and he events (NBC sports) are actually getting impressive ratings.
It is possible for soaring to have a similar jolt of energy. It just requires the proper circumstances. And none of this, Olympics, Dubai, etc., affects any other soaring pilot negatively. It simply raises awareness to a sport which is dismal (especially in the USA) from a marketing perspective. See sailplane Grand Prix.
In other word you should be thankful. We could use all the help that we could get right now...don't you think?
I think we should be more positive and thankful to those trying new ideas vs. insulting them.
Bruce Hoult
The glider aerobatics near Palm Jumeirah got quite a bit of coverage, but that's not us.
HGXC
Dennis
HGXC
Just my thoughts,
Dennis
Sean
What I am talking about is basically regularly leveraging free exposure as a matter of practice. Employing the media and other marketing engines to work for us as normal operating procedure. It only takes paying attention. For example, every SSA contest (or any soaring event for that matter) should be writing press releases and calling local media outlets (TV, print, web) to visit. Media loves invitations. The exercise of inviting media can be automated and tuned. Media involvement is very rare in the USA, even at Nationals or SSA Conventions. It should be absolute at every event. Particular attention should be paid to sports media. As a sport, we are sitting on the ground with the engine off in terms of marketing. We have few youth members to leverage for help as other sports do (paragliding). Quite embarrassing. We need to work harder to make up for this unfortunately.
The Olympics is important and valuable. Shrugging it off because you have watched curling and not picked up curling is fairly dumb (sorry). Imagine an average Joe seeing 10 minutes of the Olympic glider race event similar to some of the better SGP coverage you may have seen. Now imagine 1.8 Billion people (Olympic viewership in Brazil this summer) being potentially exposed to glider racing. The Olympics have very, very strong youth demographics. They provide sports with a certain legitimacy as well. It might be hard for some of you to get your heads around, but I am thinking 10-20 years down the line here. If we want to have a great, thriving sport then we need to get our heads out of our butts and shamelessly expose the sport as much as possible. Why not? Or should we just keep standing around with our hands in our pockets? This conservative, tip-toeing around alone has gotten us where we are today. It cannot be allowed to continue.
Finally an Olympic bid is not that big of an undertaking for us here in the USA. The good news is that the US so separated from the FAI and Europe (the big boys) that we would not have to move a muscle. They would lead that effort because FAI is relevant and US rules are irrelevant. We should all be absolutely begging the FAI to build an Olympic bid for soaring. All upside for us and zero work.
Olympic Sailplane Racing. Sounds great to me! What is there to lose?
Sean
bythes...@gmail.com
"What's to lose" actually also What is to gain? is another good question before embarking down a road without a map.
I will give you 2 experiences that kind of speak to both.
1. We had a woman who had place 5th in the prior World's and felt to get on the podium requires her not to work at all and therefore fundraising was a high priority. She raised sufficient funds, unfortunately the thing she was unable to do was have sufficient time to train - she did not make the Team.
2. This/my Sport has been in every Olympics since 1936. They felt pretty cocky and safe after the 1980 Olympics - we won 3 medals, had Olympic profit sharing money, excellent exposure and a great sponsor. They forgot to take good care of the sponsor and that exposure alone would not gain any new Athletes.
The sponsor is gone - the money is gone and how many of you have heard of Olympic Sprint Kayaking ;)
It is dangerous to lose focus and to believe growth comes easy via exposure. It is all about the execution of a plan and allowing it to evolve and follow where it succeeds, while stopping what does not.
Soaring is a beautiful Sport and I believe there are many ways to expand - I am not sure Olympic exposure is a magic bullet or maybe even a waste of time.
my 2 cents :)
WH
Bruce Hoult
> I hate being a "Debbie Downer" but.......... I was on the 1988 Olympic Team and have been part of an orphan sport for 45 years :)
>
> "What's to lose" actually also What is to gain? is another good question before embarking down a road without a map.
>
> I will give you 2 experiences that kind of speak to both.
>
> 1. We had a woman who had place 5th in the prior World's and felt to get on the podium requires her not to work at all and therefore fundraising was a high priority. She raised sufficient funds, unfortunately the thing she was unable to do was have sufficient time to train - she did not make the Team.
>
> 2. This/my Sport has been in every Olympics since 1936. They felt pretty cocky and safe after the 1980 Olympics - we won 3 medals, had Olympic profit sharing money, excellent exposure and a great sponsor. They forgot to take good care of the sponsor and that exposure alone would not gain any new Athletes.
>
> The sponsor is gone - the money is gone and how many of you have heard of Olympic Sprint Kayaking ;)
gregg...@gmail.com
> Olympic Sailplane Racing. Sounds great to me! What is there to lose?
>
> Sean
And lest you think old school media still has credibility, the ghey old lady is near death.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3897406/New-York-Times-reports-95-7-percent-fall-quarterly-profit.html
SGP is perfect you make the rules to make it how pilots want to fly and new media compatible. Then pump it out with youtube, vimeo, twitter, gab, get a soda company involved, etc. The X-Alps is redbull media's largest audience event. Soaring and walking, plus human drama. The mainstream media and the olympics are extinct, they just haven't realized it yet. Waste of time and dignity.
Sean
Let's just peck away on our private Facebook accounts and tell more lies? That will fix things. :-)! Immediate gratification in small private groups beats hard work, trying new things and having a chance at success any day! In other words, we will never know if we never try.
Seriously, I think that the FAI has dropped the ball by not answering this question for all of us and trying over the bast 80 years to being soaring into the Olympics. Soaring would be a great Olympic television sport.
I was part the US Olympic Sailing Team. I did the Pan Am Games (our class was not in the Olympics) and it was a great experience. The Olympics definitely does not hurt sailing in the slightest. It is outstanding coverage and a huge highlight for the sport and for youth sailors. It would be amazing for soaring in my opinion...
Notice women are in the race, level with the men and ages range from 18 to 52 yrs old...
https://youtu.be/4emdfoTvNKk
markm...@gmail.com
Don't get me wrong- I watch the SGP videos from South Africa, New Zealand and Chile over and over. Ionia? Nyet!
We fly hundreds of miles, in three dimensions. Altitudes of over 15,000 ft. and speeds above 100 mph are simply out of the operating range of most helicopter camera platforms.
Contrast these parameters with Sean's favorite: Sailing is performed in two dimensions at sea level at speeds of about 11 knots. The course is a few miles in length and width.
Extremely easy to cover with helicopters, and lots of folks can watch the "action" from the shore or from a boat outside the course with a decent set of binoculars and a few beers. Bikini clad crew on other spectator boats also add to the enjoyment with the aforesaid binoculars. Not so much in soaring.
Sean
The budget for Olympic sailing RIO this summer was around 25 million dollars (from what I have heard). And advertising investment was 5-10x that amount for NBC. Other Olympic events have far, FAR, larger budgets (obviously) and the network makes a fortune. Think about that. The media investment (and in turn sponsor investment) in Olympic coverage can be enormous. With that kind of money focused on soaring, even a fraction, Olympic Sailplane Competiton coverage would be like nothing we have ever seen before. Chile and New Zealand would look like child's play in comparison. It would probably be broadcast live from the cockpits in addition to improvement everywhere else. If that happened, and based on the history it has a snowballs chance in hell, Olympic Soaring would gain enormous exposure.
And this attention would be more than "just the Olympic event." The bid process for the sport alone would be major news. The media around each countries qualification process (trials), the test and pre-Olympic events leading up to the Olympics, the glider design/manufacturer drama deciding what gliders will used for the Olympics, etc would all begin to play out years before the actual Olympic event. A whole new level of potential interest would be created on a scale we can not really imagine. Sponsors may even become interested outside the Olympics which could carry into domestic events, national organizations such as the SSA, etc.
We might even grow again.
FAI where are you?
By the way, there is a great article on this very subject in gliding international this month.