www.100dollarhamburger.com no longer free
Hilton
About 40,000 subscribers at $8 - a quick $400,000 since Labor Day 2005 -
that's not bad. I just feel a tad bummed that I submitted PIREPs under the
assumption it was a free service.
The FAQ says about our free PIREP reports: "It is amazingly expensive to
collect..."
Oh well...
Hilton
Flyingmonk
charge the restaurants that are on there and not the members. Next
time I need a pirep on places to fly to and eat, I'll ask in here,
rec.avaiation.piloting.
Peter Duniho
news:v79nf.2116$n1....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> About 40,000 subscribers at $8 - a quick $400,000 since Labor Day 2005 -
> that's not bad. I just feel a tad bummed that I submitted PIREPs under
> the assumption it was a free service.
Yup. Ever since they published their book, I've regretted submitted pilot
reports to them. It started out as such a nice seemingly communal effort,
then they turned it into a for-profit business.
It's kind of like if Linus Torvald started charging licensing fees for
Linux.
On the bright side, that was ages ago. Some of the information is
out-of-date, and with their current policies, I imagine they are going to
have to rely less on donated efforts, and more on old-fashioned "do the damn
work yourself".
Pete
Jay Honeck
Hmm. I'm not sure why the opposition to this site charging a user fee.
Over the years I've found the $100 Hamburger to be very useful -- it's
really one-of-a-kind, if you're looking for places to fly -- and gladly
subscribed.
Do I wish it were still free? Sure. But I don't blame Purner (the
webmaster) for wanting to defray his costs.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
Darkwing
"Jay Honeck" <jjho...@NOSPAMmchsi.com> wrote in message
news:xqfnf.641316$xm3.509542@attbi_s21...
>> Guess I wont be visiting that sight no more.
>
> Hmm. I'm not sure why the opposition to this site charging a user fee.
>
> Over the years I've found the $100 Hamburger to be very useful -- it's
> really one-of-a-kind, if you're looking for places to fly -- and gladly
> subscribed.
>
> Do I wish it were still free? Sure. But I don't blame Purner (the
> webmaster) for wanting to defray his costs.
> --
> Jay Honeck
I think you'll see less and less free stuff on the internet in time.
-----------------------------------------
DW
Gene Seibel
will pay, others will not. Our choice. This is one I don't need. Seldom
used it when it was free.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.
JohnH
> fee.
Because the ones supplying the information of interest is (was) the users.
If anything, they should have gotten *paid* when their information was
published and sold.
Paul Tomblin
>It's kind of like if Linus Torvald started charging licensing fees for
>Linux.
The difference is that Linus used a license that prevents him or anybody
else from doing that. When I contribute code to a GPL project, or
information to a CreativeCommons licensed web site, I know what I'm
getting in to. That's one reason why I'm planning to use CreativeCommons
on the navigation data site I'm building - so people who contribute will
know that I CAN'T turn their volunteer labour into a money making prospect
for myself.
--
Paul Tomblin <ptom...@xcski.com> http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"I'm trying to contain an outbreak here, and you're driving the monkey to
the airport" - Hank Hill.
Larry Dighera
in <1134403470.5...@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>::
>It's free enterprise which I am all for.
Agreed.
But the content now being sold was provided by the very audience now
being charged for their freely provided contributions. That seems a
bit inconsiderate and insensitive if not arrogant, and is probably the
source of the irritation.
Jay Honeck
>
> Agreed.
>
> But the content now being sold was provided by the very audience now
> being charged for their freely provided contributions. That seems a
> bit inconsiderate and insensitive if not arrogant, and is probably the
> source of the irritation.
True enough, but I sympathize with Purner on this one. The internet is
still so new that it's always a "which came first...?" problem for any
website like "The $100 Hamburger".
Bottom line: He couldn't get subscribers without offering value (in
this case, ratings of restaurants and other places), and he couldn't
get submissions from subscribers that didn't exist...yet. So, the
only solution was for him to do it for free, on his own nickel, until
he reached a "critical mass" of users that would pay for it.
In Purner's case, he worked for nothing for a period of, what, five
years? Heck, that's longer than even I'm willing to work for
nuthin'...
AirNav is going through the same thing, albeit they're trying to get
the advertisers to pay the freight...for now.
Hilton
> Bottom line: He couldn't get subscribers without offering value (in
> this case, ratings of restaurants and other places), and he couldn't
> get submissions from subscribers that didn't exist...yet. So, the
> only solution was for him to do it for free, on his own nickel, until
> he reached a "critical mass" of users that would pay for it.
Jay, the issue I have is that he got pilots (me included) to submit PIREPs
under the false pretence (possibly hind-sight) that it was free.
> AirNav is going through the same thing, albeit they're trying to get
> the advertisers to pay the freight...for now.
I believe AirNav now charge and that some places are not shown because they
don't pay up (correct me if I'm wrong).
Hilton
Larry Dighera
in <1134413205....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>::
>> >It's free enterprise which I am all for.
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
>> But the content now being sold was provided by the very audience now
>> being charged for their freely provided contributions. That seems a
>> bit inconsiderate and insensitive if not arrogant, and is probably the
>> source of the irritation.
>
>True enough, but I sympathize with Purner on this one.
I could have guessed that, given your marketing background. A
comedian recently put it succinctly:
The true Axis Of Evil in America is our genius at marketing
coupled with the stupidity of our people. -- Bill Maher
>The internet is still so new that it's always a "which came first...?"
>problem for any website like "The $100 Hamburger".
Most business enterprises overcome that "problem" by including a
phrase such as "Since 2000" in their advertising.
>Bottom line: He couldn't get subscribers without offering value (in
>this case, ratings of restaurants and other places), and he couldn't
>get submissions from subscribers that didn't exist...yet. So, the
>only solution was for him to do it for free, on his own nickel, until
>he reached a "critical mass" of users that would pay for it.
Unfortunately, he didn't provide any ratings; they were provided by
the users who freely provided the reviews. A more equitable strategy
would have been to at least grant users who provided reviews without
charge, free access commensurate with their contribution(s).
>In Purner's case, he worked for nothing for a period of, what, five
>years?
His work (creating the web pages) was largely completed when the web
site went live. He did/does, however, fund the hosting costs.
>Heck, that's longer than even I'm willing to work for
>nuthin'...
No one should have to work without compensation. That's not the issue
here (or perhaps it is in the case of those who contributed the
reviews). It's a matter of failing to compensate those who made his
enterprise possible.
>AirNav is going through the same thing, albeit they're trying to get
>the advertisers to pay the freight...for now.
AirNav's content is largely generated by the US Government not those
who contribute to their web site. The user comments are not the
_primary_ value AirNav provides, unlike $100 Hamburger. AirNav's
business model is far more professional and equitable: Those who stand
to gain monetarily from advertising pay a fee. The aeronautical
information is provided as a free service to draw users whose
attention may be caught by advertising, much the same as
(pre-cable/satellite) television broadcasting. That's a totally
different issue.
Darkwing
"Larry Dighera" <LDig...@att.net> wrote in message
news:p3irp19tc61srkrln...@4ax.com...
> On 12 Dec 2005 10:46:45 -0800, "Jay Honeck" <jjho...@mchsi.com> wrote
> in <1134413205....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>::
>
>>> >It's free enterprise which I am all for.
>>>
>>> Agreed.
>>>
>>> But the content now being sold was provided by the very audience now
>>> being charged for their freely provided contributions. That seems a
>>> bit inconsiderate and insensitive if not arrogant, and is probably the
>>> source of the irritation.
>>
>>True enough, but I sympathize with Purner on this one.
>
> I could have guessed that, given your marketing background. A
> comedian recently put it succinctly:
>
> The true Axis Of Evil in America is our genius at marketing
> coupled with the stupidity of our people. -- Bill Maher
Bill Maher is an ass, I can't stand watching that show, he could stand there
for an hour saying "George Bush sucks" over and over and that crowd of sheep
he call an audience would give him a standing ovation the entire time. He
says "the stupidity of our people" as if just Americans as a whole are
stupid, every country on the planet is about 95% stupid people but let the
left wing bashing of America continue.
-----------------------------------------
DW
Chris G.
date and the website didn't seem much better. No, I never submitted a
pirep, either. I think it was because I was rather disappointed in the
book and then the website.
Chris G.
Larry Dighera
<theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote in
<mPKdnfSLIfp...@giganews.com>::
>I can't stand watching that show ...
I feel the same way about Limbaugh, so I don't tune in. You should
try it.
Darkwing
That's funny, I'm listening to him right now. I'm a libertarian, I still
can't stand Maher.
-------------------------------------------------
DW
Ron Natalie
Larry Dighera
wrote in <439dd65c$0$54481$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net>::
>I received the book for my Birthday last year
In the book, are the authors of the reviews credited for their
comments?
j...@frii.com
I got the t-shirt... and wear it proudly! I think it said
the "first xx" people who submit... and I was. :-)
Best regards,
Jer/ "Flight instruction/mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard
--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer<at>frii.com http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot BM218 HAM N0FZD 235 Young Eagles!
Chris G.
out-of-date, so I never use(d) it.
Chris
Ron Natalie
>> Or at least got the t-shirts he promissed them for the submission.
>
> I got the t-shirt... and wear it proudly! I think it said
> the "first xx" people who submit... and I was. :-)
>
Actually, maybe that's what he intended, that's not what he advertised.
Many felt cheated.
Jay Honeck
> >
> > I feel the same way about Limbaugh, so I don't tune in. You should
> > try it.
>
> That's funny, I'm listening to him right now. I'm a libertarian, I still
> can't stand Maher.
That's funny -- I'm an independent, and I can't stand listening to
*either* of them...
Jimmy B.
>>Guess I wont be visiting that sight no more.
>
>
> Hmm. I'm not sure why the opposition to this site charging a user fee.
>
> Over the years I've found the $100 Hamburger to be very useful -- it's
> really one-of-a-kind, if you're looking for places to fly -- and gladly
> subscribed.
>
> Do I wish it were still free? Sure. But I don't blame Purner (the
> webmaster) for wanting to defray his costs.
the $100 hamburger site is out of date and inaccurate. I'm not going to
pay for that.
The site will only get more out of date now that he is charging for it,
because no one will submit PIREPs.
Hilton
> The site will only get more out of date now that he is charging for it,
> because no one will submit PIREPs.
From his FAQ:
Haven't PIREPs fallen off since the conversion to Subscriber Only?
As the number of paid Subscriptions has gone up so has the number of PIREPs.
Apparently our Subscribers are more apt to share their information with
other stakeholders. Naturally readership is down. That's really perfectly
fine with us as income and PIREPs (a measure of reader interest) have gone
up - BIG TIME!
Hilton [with a slightly puzzled look]
Peter Duniho
news:xqfnf.641316$xm3.509542@attbi_s21...
>
> Hmm. I'm not sure why the opposition to this site charging a user fee.
There's nothing wrong with the general idea of charging a user fee.
But these guys are charging a fee for access to material for which they
don't even own the copyright, nor did they actually produce. The material
was contributed with the understanding that it would be made freely
available, and then they changed their minds.
Frankly, if anyone wanted to file a lawsuit, I'd bet there's a good chance
they'd win and either get royalties, or have any material they wrote pulled
from the site (and their book, and any other works). In reality, the
individual value of each entry is probably not worth the hassle of a
lawsuit.
But the fact remains, it's a pretty sleazy operation they've got going now.
Pete
Peter Duniho
news:dnkc7v$2e7$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
> The difference is that Linus used a license that prevents him or anybody
> else from doing that.
That's only a legal technicality. It has nothing to do with the general
ethical issue at hand.
Ben Jackson
>
> Yup. Ever since they published their book, I've regretted submitted pilot
> reports to them.
Ever since I bought the book, I've regretted buying the book. I don't
think I've ever found a single accurate entry in it.
On the other hand, what Airnav is doing might be even more irritating.
They're removing current, informative entries if the businesses don't
pay.
--
Ben Jackson
<b...@ben.com>
http://www.ben.com/
Matt Barrow
"Ben Jackson" <b...@ben.com> wrote in message
news:slrndpsvi...@saturn.home.ben.com...
> On 2005-12-12, Peter Duniho <NpOeS...@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yup. Ever since they published their book, I've regretted submitted
>> pilot
>> reports to them.
>
> Ever since I bought the book, I've regretted buying the book. I don't
> think I've ever found a single accurate entry in it.
>
> On the other hand, what Airnav is doing might be even more irritating.
> They're removing current, informative entries if the businesses don't
> pay.
>
if they don't subscribe to more elaborate advertising.
--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO
Jay Honeck
>> They're removing current, informative entries if the businesses don't
>> pay.
>>
> There's no free lunch. At least AirNav has a basic listing for the FBO,
> even if they don't subscribe to more elaborate advertising.
I like Airnav -- I use it a lot, and advertise there -- but I do find it sad
that they've gone so far as to remove non-profit museums from the site,
simply if they don't cough up the $$$ for a listing.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"
"Matt Barrow" <mattb...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:JrAnf.8$Ph....@news.uswest.net...
>
> "Ben Jackson" <b...@ben.com> wrote in message
> news:slrndpsvi...@saturn.home.ben.com...
>> On 2005-12-12, Peter Duniho <NpOeS...@NnOwSlPiAnMk.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yup. Ever since they published their book, I've regretted submitted
>>> pilot
>>> reports to them.
>>
>> Ever since I bought the book, I've regretted buying the book. I don't
>> think I've ever found a single accurate entry in it.
>>
>
>
Matt Barrow
"Jay Honeck" <jjho...@NOSPAMmchsi.com> wrote in message
>>> On the other hand, what Airnav is doing might be even more irritating.
>>> They're removing current, informative entries if the businesses don't
>>> pay.
>>>
>> There's no free lunch. At least AirNav has a basic listing for the FBO,
>> even if they don't subscribe to more elaborate advertising.
>
> I like Airnav -- I use it a lot, and advertise there -- but I do find it
> sad that they've gone so far as to remove non-profit museums from the
> site, simply if they don't cough up the $$$ for a listing.
Is there any such thing as a "For Profit" museum?
If I remember right, Champlin Museum, late of Mesa, AZ, was non-profit, but
privately owned.
Darkwing
"Jay Honeck" <jjho...@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:1134427560.6...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> >>I can't stand watching that show ...
>> >
>> > I feel the same way about Limbaugh, so I don't tune in. You should
>> > try it.
>>
>> That's funny, I'm listening to him right now. I'm a libertarian, I still
>> can't stand Maher.
>
> That's funny -- I'm an independent, and I can't stand listening to
> *either* of them...
> --
> Jay Honeck
I'm definitely more conservative than liberal but I can't stand Sean
Hannity. I thought Randi Rhodes was making sense last night on XM then she
lost me.
--------------------------------
DW
Larry Dighera
>> I feel the same way about Limbaugh, so I don't tune in. You should
>> try it.
>
>
>That's funny, I'm listening to him right now. I'm a libertarian, I still
>can't stand Maher.
At least Maher is billed as a comedian, and his political comments are
meant to be funny like those of Letterman and Leno. Limbaugh is a
failed comic who found he could earn a living as a political
commentator when his jokes failed to get laughs.
Eduardo K.
Hilton <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>About 40,000 subscribers at $8 - a quick $400,000 since Labor Day 2005 -
>that's not bad. I just feel a tad bummed that I submitted PIREPs under the
>assumption it was a free service.
>
>collect..."
>
It has happened before... CDDB was free. When they switched to
pay per use freedb.org sprang up and most people switched...
If it does not happen, it means that ths US$8 was worth it.
--
Eduardo K. |
http://www.carfun.cl | Freedom's just another word
http://e.nn.cl | for nothing left to lose.
|
Michael 182
wrote:
What? I thought he was a failed political commentator making a living
as a comedian. Nothing he says has anything to do with reality - I
just thought some people must find his rants amusing, hence his
audience.
Matt Barrow
"Michael 182" <mhoXY...@cXoXYmXYZcXaXYsXYZt.coXYZm> wrote in message
news:2nvup11uhh9cm2mqr...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>That's funny, I'm listening to him right now. I'm a libertarian, I still
>>>can't stand Maher.
>>
>>At least Maher is billed as a comedian, and his political comments are
>>meant to be funny like those of Letterman and Leno. Limbaugh is a
>>failed comic who found he could earn a living as a political
>>commentator when his jokes failed to get laughs.
>
> What? I thought he was a failed political commentator making a living
> as a comedian. Nothing he says has anything to do with reality - I
> just thought some people must find his rants amusing, hence his
> audience.
He's a joke.
Dylan Smith
> Well, it costs money to run these services, and non trivial amounts
> actually.
For the $100 hamburger, the cost to run the website would, based on my
experience, be fairly trivial. I could probably host a site of that
volume on a virtual host on one of the Xen instances on my server. The
data is mostly static and there isn't that much of it for a modern
computer. The bandwidth requirements would be a minute amount of my
monthly allowance (1.2TB/month). Since the users are inputting the
content, and the site maintainer doesn't appear to referee, edit, check
the accuracy of the submissions, it seems like his business has tiny
costs but quite handsome profits.
--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
Montblack
[snip]
> ...it seems like his business has tiny costs but quite handsome profits.
"quite handsome profits"
So, it's not so much an aviation business that has a website as it is a
.com, which happens to 'cater' to the aviation crowd.
Montblack :-)
Jon Woellhaf
I find Limbaugh astonishingly insightful and enjoy the way he combines humor
with political commentary. I wonder how many people who say they "can't
stand" Limbaugh have actually listened to him for more than a few minutes.
Aviation content: Limbaugh loves flying and has talked about it many times.
Jon
Ben Jackson
>>
>> On the other hand, what Airnav is doing might be even more irritating.
>> They're removing current, informative entries if the businesses don't
>> pay.
>
> actually.
>
The part that's valuable to me (about $100hamburger and airnav) is the
airport information that isn't otherwise readily available. I want the
information about (especially personal experiences with) nearby places
to eat, visit or stay. A website that's free for users and for the
listed FBOs, restaurants and hotels is going to have the most information.
Airnav is clearly less valuable now that unpaid information is being
removed. That whole idea was doomed -- a good place to eat even just
a tenth of a mile from an airport is not going to pay the ransom to be
listed on Airnav.
Lots of messages on this thread have explored the pros and cons of
charging the users instead. Gathering information from users and then
locking it up and charging for it is always going to leave a bad taste
in people's mouths. My gut feeling is that the site is going to collect
less information after that as well, but the website owner claims
otherwise. I guess I'll never know!
Charles Oppermann
> humor with political commentary. I wonder how many people who say they
> "can't stand" Limbaugh have actually listened to him for more than a few
> minutes.
That's the problem, I can't stand listening to him for more than a few
minutes. He's incredibly hypocritical, decrying some statement or tactic by
the other side when in the past the same was done by his side.
Maybe a couple of times a week I'm in my car when he's on and I do try to
listen. It's just that his brand of entertainment, guised as commentary is
grating. Which I'm sure is exactly what he and his regular listeners want.
There is a certain satisfaction with driving the other side nuts.
"Fair and balanced" isn't guideline, it's a taunt <grin>
Ron Natalie
> Is there any such thing as a "For Profit" museum?
>
Sure, I'm sure things like the Ripley's museum are trying to
make a profit.
Jay Beckman
news:43a07e93$0$28439$9a6e...@news.newshosting.com...
Madame Tousaud's Wax Museum(s) ... ;O)
Jay B
Jay Honeck
>> humor with political commentary. I wonder how many people who say they
>> "can't stand" Limbaugh have actually listened to him for more than a few
>> minutes.
Rush Limbaugh *does* make good observations, and sees things from a
perspective that I often don't see.
National Public Radio's "All Things Considered" afternoon broadcast does,
too, albeit often from a different political viewpoint.
I enjoy listening to both broadcasts, in moderation. IMHO, somewhere between
the two viewpoints resides the "Truth"...
LWG
brilliant and articulate, things which often don't go together. If you are
trying to connect the tag line "Fair and Balanced" with Limbaugh, you don't
listen very often -- that's a different organization.
Limbaugh is straightforward about both his positions and his role. He
doesn't pretend to be a source of unbiased news.
If you relied on entities like the NYT, which I think pretends to be
unbiased, you would have missed stories about the illegal investigation into
the financial records of a Maryland senatorial candidate, and you would have
read a single-sourced story about phony Iraqi ballots, which story was
probably just "made up." It's "All the news that fits our views" for both
the NYT and Limbaugh, but at least Limbaugh makes no pretense about his
advocacy.
"Charles Oppermann" <cha...@coppersoftware.com> wrote in message
news:11q0tbk...@corp.supernews.com...
Flyingmonk
>I have listened to Limbaugh for more than a decade, whenever I can. He is
>brilliant and articulate, things which often don't go together.
You think he's brilliant? Boy...
LWG
without hearing a clever, new perspective on current events which I would
not have thought of.
The only times I change stations is when he starts talking about sports or
cigars.
"Flyingmonk" <Lao...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1134613845.2...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Jay Honeck
>>brilliant and articulate, things which often don't go together.
>
> You think he's brilliant? Boy...
The guy is a multi-millionaire many times over, and (incredibly, IMO)
manages to do a solo 3-hour show every day.
How the heck *anyone* can do a one-man broadcast for 3 hours daily without
(a) being completely boring and repetitive, or (b) going nuts, is amazing --
which automatically puts him in the "brilliant" category, as far as I'm
concerned.
Which doesn't mean I agree with everything he says, BTW.
Interestingly, Limbaugh's show *is* played on most radios at the airport,
I've noticed. (And I've *never* heard NPR at any hangar other than ours,
ever.)
Don Tuite
<jjho...@NOSPAMmchsi.com> wrote:
>Interestingly, Limbaugh's show *is* played on most radios at the airport,
>I've noticed. (And I've *never* heard NPR at any hangar other than ours,
>ever.)
Well, even some of us bleeding-edge liberals think most NPR
programming is aimed at a demographic consisting mainly of the people
on the shows, and we yearn for days of yore with Carl Haas and Dick
Estell and actual whole symphonies.
But the Terri Gross program with O'Reilly the whiney crybaby was a
keeper.
Actually, the one last week with McCain was good, too. For the
opposite reason.
Don
Jay Honeck
> programming is aimed at a demographic consisting mainly of the people
> on the shows, and we yearn for days of yore with Carl Haas and Dick
> Estell and actual whole symphonies.
Dick Estell, the Radio Reader? I used to listen to "Chapter A Day" when I
was working in the field, many moons ago!
> But the Terri Gross program with O'Reilly the whiney crybaby was a
> keeper.
Terri Gross is outstanding, although her choice of guests often puts me to
sleep. She's had many, many good interview, though.
Larry Dighera
<in6of.629985$_o.422255@attbi_s71>::
>How the heck *anyone* can do a one-man broadcast for 3 hours daily without
>(a) being completely boring and repetitive, or (b) going nuts, is amazing --
>which automatically puts him in the "brilliant" category, as far as I'm
>concerned.
Why would you presume Limbaugh doesn't employ professional writers?
Dylan Smith
> Maybe so, but how would said site be funded?
>
> Even if it was ran by an army of volunteers that donate their time,
> there are still ongoing expenses for hardware, power and connectivity,
> the sum of which is non-trivial, particularly if the site is successful.
In the case of $100 hamburger - the site WAS contributed by an army of
volunteers. The vast majority of information was posted by people who
wrote up what they found at an airport.
The hardware, power and connectivity can be had for as little as
$100/month - a site like the $100 Hamburger can _easily_ be handled by
even an older Pentium 3 system so long as it has 10Mbit/s upstream. Most
budget offerings from dedicated webhosting companies start at
$100/month. (I dare say $100 Hamburger could be run on a much cheaper
virtual host to be honest - it was virtually all text, mostly static, so
generally low bandwidth and low CPU required, and not much disk space
either).
Having said that, the subscription fee is hardly gigantic, I think it's
$5/year.
Michael 182
wrote:
>On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 04:34:22 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
><jjho...@NOSPAMmchsi.com> wrote in
><in6of.629985$_o.422255@attbi_s71>::
>
>
>Why would you presume Limbaugh doesn't employ professional writers?
Because the man would not come acrtoss as a self-serving
one-dimensional idiot if he employed professional writers?
Jay Honeck
> $5/year.
Pilots are a funny bunch. As a group, we won't bat an eye at putting $150
worth of gas in our planes, but we get our hackles up over spending five
bucks a year.
We see this phenomenon all the time at the inn. We're a luxury suites
hotel/bed-and-breakfast, with very reasonable prices. Just $89.95 (with
EAA/AOPA discount) gets you a 450 sq ft, 1-bedroom jacuzzi theme suite, with
a full kitchen, and a delivered-to-the-suite breakfast -- a remarkable deal
by any measure. (The breakfast alone costs over $40 at our local Sheraton!)
Yet we hear it all the time: "Got anything cheaper?"
So, we grit our teeth and put them in one of our three dinky (by our
standards) 300 sq ft standard bath units, for just $53.95. (Still includes
the breakfast!) We do this knowing full well that (a) the pilot's wife is
going to bitch about the fact that "There's nothing special about this
place -- why'd we come here?", and (b) the pilot himself won't be happy with
his choice.
Why in the world someone would spend hundreds of dollars (sometimes MANY
hundreds) to fly here from <fill-in-the-blank> to see Iowa City and our
aviation theme suites, only to balk at spending that last thirty-five bucks,
is a mystery to me...
Jay Honeck
>>(a) being completely boring and repetitive, or (b) going nuts, is
>>amazing --
>>which automatically puts him in the "brilliant" category, as far as I'm
>>concerned.
>
> Why would you presume Limbaugh doesn't employ professional writers?
I would not presume otherwise. No one can talk intelligently (or, if you
insist, stupidly) non-stop about ANY topic(s) for over 650 hours per year,
year after year, without some sort of assistance.
Dylan Smith
>> Having said that, the subscription fee is hardly gigantic, I think it's
>> $5/year.
>
> Pilots are a funny bunch. As a group, we won't bat an eye at putting $150
> worth of gas in our planes, but we get our hackles up over spending five
> bucks a year.
Probably because spending all that money on avgas means we don't have $5
left over at the end of the year :-)
> Why in the world someone would spend hundreds of dollars (sometimes MANY
> hundreds) to fly here from <fill-in-the-blank> to see Iowa City and our
> aviation theme suites, only to balk at spending that last thirty-five bucks,
> is a mystery to me...
Well, if I ever flew through Iowa, I'd probably take the jacuzzi suite,
it sounds nice if you've just got done flying 9 hours in a Tri Pacer or
similar :-)
George Patterson
> Why in the world someone would spend hundreds of dollars (sometimes MANY
> hundreds) to fly here from <fill-in-the-blank> to see Iowa City and our
> aviation theme suites, only to balk at spending that last thirty-five bucks,
> is a mystery to me...
Well, that $35 would get me some fancy decor, a Jacuzzi, and a kitchen. If I'm
just there overnight, I don't need the kitchen. I'm not going to be using a
Jacuzzi, no matter how long I'm staying. The decor would be nice, but it's not
worth an extra $35 to me. My wife wouldn't even be interested in the fancy decor.
George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.
Tom Conner
"Javier Henderson" <jav...@kjsl.invalid> wrote in message
news:dns7vt$1squ$1...@stationair.kjsl.com...
>
> If someone cares to do the legwork to set up and maintain a forum where
> we can post restaurant reviews, drop me a line, I'll host it on one of
> my servers. Ask Innkeeper Jay about my hosting fees, they're exhorbitant.
Why doesn't Jay have the PIREP feature on his web-site? Its a good way to
drive future revenue, and free advertising.
Chris G.
> We do this knowing full well that (a) the pilot's wife is
> going to bitch about the fact that "There's nothing special about this
> place -- why'd we come here?", and (b) the pilot himself won't be happy with
> his choice.
The pilot won't be happy because the wife is making him miserable
because he "wasted" all that money on avgas for some pointless flying
when they could have flown an airline and been there faster and cheaper.
"Honey, why couldn't we drive?" ughh.... Thank God my wife doesn't
read newsgroups....
She still won't let me take our son flying! grrrrrrrrrrrrr
As for me, I'm all over the jacuzzi. I could care less about the
kitchen, especially for an overnight stay.
If you hadn't guessed, my wife is not into flying. Flying is a strong
source of tension in our household. :(
Chris G.
Salem, Oregon
PP-ASEL
Larry Dighera
<jav...@kjsl.invalid> wrote in <dnsejl$1t4r$1...@stationair.kjsl.com>::
>
>At any rate, there's still that minor detail of the programming required
>to get this feature up and running.
That's not necessary. Just post your $100 Hamburger PIREPs to the
newsgroup, and use a Google search to read them. Free and easy!
Tom Conner
"Javier Henderson" <jav...@kjsl.invalid> wrote in message
> charging him.
>
You are kidding right.
> At any rate, there's still that minor detail of the programming required
> to get this feature up and running. Judging from some of the comments
> posted on this thread, this should be easy pie for many, I'm sure we'll
> be deluged with offers to get this done.
What's the problem? Jay should be able to do this. All you do is make a
page with airport name and ID, with a link to a page containing whatever
reports are submitted. To keep it simple just make it text only.
Chris G.
Chris
Javier Henderson wrote:
> Tom Conner wrote:
>
>>"Javier Henderson" <jav...@kjsl.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:dnsejl$1t4r$1...@stationair.kjsl.com...
>>
>>>Tom Conner wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Javier Henderson" <jav...@kjsl.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>news:dns7vt$1squ$1...@stationair.kjsl.com...
>>>>
>>>>>If someone cares to do the legwork to set up and maintain a forum where
>>>>>we can post restaurant reviews, drop me a line, I'll host it on one of
>>>>>my servers. Ask Innkeeper Jay about my hosting fees, they're
>>
>>exhorbitant.
>>
>>>>Why doesn't Jay have the PIREP feature on his web-site? Its a good way
>>
>>to
>>
>>>>drive future revenue, and free advertising.
>>>
>>>Excellent idea. An excuse to double the hosting fees I'm already
>>>charging him.
>>>
>>
>>You are kidding right.
>
>
> Jay, would you mind if I double your fees?
>
>
>>>At any rate, there's still that minor detail of the programming required
>>>to get this feature up and running. Judging from some of the comments
>>>posted on this thread, this should be easy pie for many, I'm sure we'll
>>>be deluged with offers to get this done.
>>
>>What's the problem? Jay should be able to do this. All you do is make a
>>page with airport name and ID, with a link to a page containing whatever
>>reports are submitted. To keep it simple just make it text only.
>
>
> That involves too much work on Jay's part. We know he's usually just
> lounging, collecting the handsome profits from the Inn, but still too
> much work.
>
> A site like this should allow participants to submit their comments on
> some web page. Maybe hold them up for approval to prevent idiots from
> posting inappropriate stuff, but with an "click here to approve, there
> to discard" button to minimize the involvement by the site moderator.
>
> -jav
Jay Honeck
>>> charging him.
>>
>> You are kidding right.
>
Dang it, Jav, if you double my hosting fees *again* I'll have to, um, well,
go find someone *else* who is willing to donate their server for our free
usage!
:-)
>> What's the problem? Jay should be able to do this. All you do is make a
>> page with airport name and ID, with a link to a page containing whatever
>> reports are submitted. To keep it simple just make it text only.
>
> That involves too much work on Jay's part. We know he's usually just
> lounging, collecting the handsome profits from the Inn, but still too
> much work.
I've actually considered going for 501(c)3 non-profit status, after three
years of pouring everything we make back into making the inn into an
aviation museum. I mean, why not? :-)
> A site like this should allow participants to submit their comments on
> some web page. Maybe hold them up for approval to prevent idiots from
> posting inappropriate stuff, but with an "click here to approve, there
> to discard" button to minimize the involvement by the site moderator.
I'd be willing to be the moderator, and it would be very cool to have as
part of our website -- but I sure don't have a clue how to make it work.
Would this be something that you (Jav) would have to do, or is it something
that could be set up so that a (relative) HTML dunce like me could maintain
it?
Jay Honeck
> newsgroup, and use a Google search to read them. Free and easy!
An elegant solution, but (in my experience) most pilots have no idea what
Usenet is, or how to access it.
Jay Honeck
>> hundreds) to fly here from <fill-in-the-blank> to see Iowa City and our
>> aviation theme suites, only to balk at spending that last thirty-five
>> bucks, is a mystery to me...
>
> Well, that $35 would get me some fancy decor, a Jacuzzi, and a kitchen. If
> I'm just there overnight, I don't need the kitchen. I'm not going to be
> using a Jacuzzi, no matter how long I'm staying. The decor would be nice,
> but it's not worth an extra $35 to me. My wife wouldn't even be interested
> in the fancy decor.
Well, then, if all your looking for is the cheapest possible bed, you might
as well save your money and stay at the Super 8.
(Actually, we have decorated the "cheap suites" with an aviation theme, too.
Each of our little suites is decorated to commemorate a WWII fighter
plane...)
Jay Honeck
>
> As for me, I'm all over the jacuzzi. I could care less about the
> kitchen, especially for an overnight stay.
>
> If you hadn't guessed, my wife is not into flying. Flying is a strong
> source of tension in our household. :(
I'm sorry, Chris, you are in a no-win situation. (As I'm sure you already
know.)
Even if you take her to a nice Jacuzzi-suite getaway weekend, she won't fly
with you?
How old is your boy?
Darrel Toepfer
> If you are trying to connect the tag line "Fair and Balanced"
> with Limbaugh, you don't listen very often -- that's a
> different organization.
Walton & Johnson http://www.waltonandjohnson.com
Eduardo K.
Dylan Smith <dy...@vexed3.alioth.net> wrote:
>On 2005-12-15, Jay Honeck <jjho...@NOSPAMmchsi.com> wrote:
>
>> Why in the world someone would spend hundreds of dollars (sometimes MANY
>> hundreds) to fly here from <fill-in-the-blank> to see Iowa City and our
>> aviation theme suites, only to balk at spending that last thirty-five bucks,
>> is a mystery to me...
>
>Well, if I ever flew through Iowa, I'd probably take the jacuzzi suite,
>it sounds nice if you've just got done flying 9 hours in a Tri Pacer or
>similar :-)
>
bah... I would want a suite, and I would need to fly 9000kmts to get there :)
--
Eduardo K. | Darwin pone las reglas.
http://www.carfun.cl | Murphy, la oportunidad.
http://e.nn.cl |
| Yo.
Eduardo K.
Javier Henderson <jav...@kjsl.invalid> wrote:
>
>Jay, would you mind if I double your fees?
>
2 * 0 = 0 ?
Morgans
> >
>
> 2 * 0 = 0 ?
Just don't try to cut his fee in half.
2 / 0 = ??? <g>
--
Jim in NC
Newps
Larry Dighera wrote:
Having been in radio myself none of that is written beforehand. All of
it is off the cuff.
Peter Duniho
news:r0gof.630699$_o.183471@attbi_s71...
>> Having said that, the subscription fee is hardly gigantic, I think it's
>> $5/year.
>
> Pilots are a funny bunch. As a group, we won't bat an eye at putting
> $150 worth of gas in our planes, but we get our hackles up over spending
> five bucks a year.
You just don't get it.
It's not the amount of money involved. It could be one penny, or a hundred
dollars. The point is that the business in question was built using the
volunteer efforts of people who were misled into thinking they were
contributing something for the general good of the pilot community.
Besides, you ought to think twice before you claim that "as a group, we
won't bat an eye at putting $150 worth of gas in our planes". YOU may not
bat an eye, but I certainly think about the cost of gas, and do what I can
to minimize it. I'll bet more people pay attention to the price of gas than
don't.
Pete
Larry Dighera
<jjho...@NOSPAMmchsi.com> wrote in
<HElof.631121$_o.254027@attbi_s71>::
>> That's not necessary. Just post your $100 Hamburger PIREPs to the
>> newsgroup, and use a Google search to read them. Free and easy!
>
>An elegant solution, but (in my experience) most pilots have no idea what
>Usenet is, or how to access it.
Then they can use the Google-Groups HTML user interface to read and
POST.
Tom Conner
"Larry Dighera" <LDig...@att.net> wrote in message
news:je54q1d0gano624cb...@4ax.com...
The problem with USENET is that, at least for my ISP, a message is aged out
after some period. So if no one posts anything there will be no Hamburger
thread to read. Somebody would have to own it and keep posting it, over and
over.
Peter Duniho
news:81pof.1617$mj1....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> The problem with USENET is that, at least for my ISP, a message is aged
> out
> after some period. So if no one posts anything there will be no Hamburger
> thread to read. Somebody would have to own it and keep posting it, over
> and
> over.
That's not a problem. That's simply why Larry pointed out that one can use
Google Groups to search the thread.
Larry Dighera
wrote in <81pof.1617$mj1....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>::
>
>The problem with USENET is that, at least for my ISP, a message is aged out
>after some period. So if no one posts anything there will be no Hamburger
>thread to read. Somebody would have to own it and keep posting it, over and
>over.
It is possible for anyone with an Internet browser to access the
_entire_ Usenet archive from January 1, 1981 to present, so there's no
need for anyone to do anything but post their $100 Hamburger PIREPs to
the rec.aviation.piloting newsgroup with '$100 Hamburger' preferably
in the subject line, or message body. That's it; easy.
George Patterson
> Well, then, if all your looking for is the cheapest possible bed, ....
That's not what I said.
George Patterson
> Jay, would you mind if I double your fees?
Two times 0 is a trivial sum. :-)
George Patterson
> Just don't try to cut his fee in half.
>
> 2 / 0 = ??? <g>
Nice try, but that should be 0 / 2.
Morgans
"George Patterson" <grpp...@verizon.net> wrote
> Nice try, but that should be 0 / 2.
Crap!!!
I never was any damn good at math. I was in the new math experiment. I'm
hell with sets and subsets, though! ;-)
--
Jim in NC
George Patterson
> I never was any damn good at math. I was in the new math experiment.
"Well, you can't take three from two; two is less than three, so you look at the
four in the tens place. Now that's really four tens, so you make it three tens,
and you add one ten (that is to say one) to the two ......"
It's so simple, only a child can do it
Morgans
equations ever written!
--
Jim in NC
Darrel Toepfer
> I love it! I've seen it before, but it is still one of the best, most true
> equations ever written!
You can probably substitute *Woman* with *Airplane* for most people...
George Patterson
> I love it! I've seen it before, but it is still one of the best, most true
> equations ever written!
Only problem with it is the first step. Time and money is time + money, not time
* money.
New Math again?
Morgans
"George Patterson" <grpp...@verizon.net> wrote
> Only problem with it is the first step. Time and money is time + money,
not time
> * money.
>
> New Math again?
Yeah, I say that, but I was afraid to comment. You know, people in glass
houses and rocks, or something like that? <g>
--
Jim in NC
Darrel Toepfer
> Morgans wrote:
>> I love it! I've seen it before, but it is still one of the best, most
>> true equations ever written!
>
> Only problem with it is the first step. Time and money is time + money,
> not time * money.
>
> New Math again?
Many have found the consequences of double timing a Woman...
Matt Barrow
"Darrel Toepfer" <spam...@whodat.net> wrote in message
news:QFsof.40097$cA2....@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
Usually death if they're lucky.
Matt Barrow
"Jay Honeck" <jjho...@NOSPAMmchsi.com> wrote in message
news:HElof.631121$_o.254027@attbi_s71...
>> That's not necessary. Just post your $100 Hamburger PIREPs to the
>> newsgroup, and use a Google search to read them. Free and easy!
>
> An elegant solution, but (in my experience) most pilots have no idea what
> Usenet is, or how to access it.
Many ISPs tech support doesn't know what it is either.
Dylan Smith
> $100/month isn't trivial. And I bet Airnav costs more than $100/month to
> run.
It _is_ trivial though. I _personally_ have a dedicated server at that
price to support some small business dealings I do. For quite a long
time I paid that for a dedicated server for hobby use. I am not rich
either. $100 a month isn't that much more than some people pay for
cable or satellite subscriptions.
> And if the site is indeed successful, as Airnav appears to be, the
> minimum hosting packages won't include enough bandwidth, at least at a
> reputable service provider.
ev1servers is reputable - I think they now include 1.2TB/month in their
entry level packages. I use ThePlanet (which is reputable) - and I get
1.2TB/month (and a /28 netblock as well). $100 Hamburger would need
millions of visits per month to use up 1.2TB - it's mainly static
text! With that bandwidth allowance, I could have each visitor do
a megabyte of transfer per visit and _still_ service 1.2 million
visitors a month without running up any bandwidth charges. It's doubtful
that a visit to Airnav uses more than a few hundred kilobytes. It's
doubtful that a visit to $100 Hamburger uses more than a few tens of
kilobytes - let alone a whole megabyte! Then consider that the
entire active pilot population is actually quite small, and the
proportion that go online for information is yet smaller still.
The upstream on my server is 10Mbit/sec so is quite adequate to handle
the kind of traffic you'd get from something like $100 Hamburger.
It's the _other_ costs that can hit you if you're running it full time -
hosting is trivial compared to the other costs. I think the objection to
closing up $100 Hamburger is that virtually all the reviews were
contributed for free, and at least morally the copyright belongs to the
contributors, not the guy who's paying for the bandwidth.
--
Dylan Smith, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
George Patterson
> Many ISPs tech support doesn't know what it is either.
I still remember having to deal with a sysadmin who thought the newsgroups were
like an old-fashioned newsfeed, therefore it was no big deal if he just had the
feed up one or two hours a day.
George Patterson
> Many have found the consequences of double timing a Woman...
Yeah. Fury = Time * 2.
Darrel Toepfer
> ev1servers is reputable - I think they now include 1.2TB/month in their
> entry level packages. I use ThePlanet (which is reputable) - and I get
> 1.2TB/month (and a /28 netblock as well).
And your outbound email would geaux kneauxwheres since they are
considered a spammer safehaven from my personal experience...
Jonathan Goodish
Larry Dighera <LDig...@att.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Dec 2005 04:34:22 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> <jjho...@NOSPAMmchsi.com> wrote in
> <in6of.629985$_o.422255@attbi_s71>::
>
> >How the heck *anyone* can do a one-man broadcast for 3 hours daily without
> >(a) being completely boring and repetitive, or (b) going nuts, is amazing --
> >
> >which automatically puts him in the "brilliant" category, as far as I'm
> >concerned.
>
> Why would you presume Limbaugh doesn't employ professional writers?
It's pretty clear that he does not. Sure, his monologue is scripted and
the show is certainly prepared, but you can't script dialogue with
unknown callers. I know that some accuse him of staging callers, but
there's no evidence to support that assertion, and no reasonable person
would suggest that he stages 11 hours worth of calls every week.
Sometimes Limbaugh misses important points in support of his arguments
when debating callers on the air--something that wouldn't happen if the
calls were scripted.
As far as I know, Limbaugh has never claimed to be anything but an
entertainer. However, he usually does have the facts correct even if
his interpretation is flawed--which it sometimes is, but usually isn't.
Limbaugh became successful because he has enormous talent on the radio.
He chose politics as the topic upon which to base his show, but I
suspect he could have chosen just about any topic and been very
successful. Agree with him or not, his show is usually centered around
topics that are truly important in society, and he tends to provoke
thoughts and reactions on both sides of the issues--a much different
show than the low-life trash content that Howard Stern puts out.
JKG
Morgans
"Jonathan Goodish" <jgoo...@comcast.net> wrote
> Agree with him or not, his show is usually centered around
> topics that are truly important in society, and he tends to provoke
> thoughts and reactions on both sides of the issues--a much different
> show than the low-life trash content that Howard Stern puts out.
Putting the name of Limbaugh and Stern in the same post is a travesty.
Stern is a pile of cold crap on a paper plate. Limbaugh is love or hate,
but he does more than play off of sex.
--
Jim in NC
Dylan Smith
Actually, ev1servers and ThePlanet are *not* spammer havens - and
consequently, my outbound email has never had a problem. I've been using
ev1servers since they began offering dedicated hosting, and ThePlanet
for about a year. The netblock my servers are in have never been listed
in any spam blacklists (I check reasonably often). It's much more likely
your normal ADSL or dialup ISP is considered a spammer's haven due to
all the pwned Windows spam zombies it undoubtedly hosts.