Best TRUE anecdote you've read/experienced from aviation
Krztalizer
a hunk of flak that had the serial number of the bomber on it, and the
Czech slave laborors that inserted notes in shells telling crewmen that
they were intentionally manufacturing duds at their factory. Also, no
need to write about He 162s shooting down P-47s or Typhoons...
What I'd really enjoy hearing are the best stories y'all have heard
about actual flyers in action.
v/r Gordon
Dale
"Krztalizer" <krzta...@aol.com> wrote:
> What I'd really enjoy hearing are the best stories y'all have heard
> about actual flyers in action.
Okay.
Byron was a B-17 tail-gunner. On a mission over Europe a B-17 near his
airplane took a flak hit and went out of control hitting a 2nd B-17.
One or both of these airplanes collided with his airplane cutting his
airplane in half through the waist area. Byron struggled to get out of
the tail gun position (you have to crawl forward past the tailwheel to
reach your escape hatch) and was able to get out and open his parachute
just before impact with the ground. The ball gunner of his airplane was
trapped in the ball turret at impact but survived. Byron and the
ball-gunner were the only two to survive of the 30 crewman in the 3
airplanes. He spent the remainder of the war in Stalag Luft 3.
He wears an A-2 jacket with the nose art of his airplane. On the back
he has bomb symbols marking the missions he flew. The marker for his 2nd
mission has "FW-190" noted above the bomb symbol. His 12th mission is
marked not with a bomb but a parachute. Above it is says POW Stalag
Luft 3.
--
Dale L. Falk
There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.
WaltBJ
Wing. Back in the late fifties he was sent to take a C47 to the Far
East. The Wing didn't have formed crews, so he met his crew at the
airplane. He was a captainat te ime, lots of experience. The copilot
was a 1/Lt, the engineer (to manage fule from the ferry tanks lining
the aisle) a SSgt, the radioman same, and the navigator a 2/Lt. Their
ship was one of several making the first hop to Hawaii. They seemed to
be doing okay but he noticed the other airplanes getting fainter as the
flight progressed. He asled the nav about it but the 2Lt told him the
changing wind would blow them back on course. They passed the Ocean
Station Vessel (it was a long time ago!) on time but off to one side.
He commented on it and the navigator after a few minutes gave him a
correction to course. By now they couldn't pick up the other planes at
all. The copilot whined about being tired so the AC took the controls
back and the 1/Lt went back to take a nap. The radioman was trying to
pick up anything on his radios but couldn't and was getting worried.
The AC asked the navigator to get a sun line and the young nav finally
admitted he'd dropped his sextant when boarding the aircraft. This
angered the AC so much he threw his half-eaten sandwich at the kid. The
radioman was apparently the only other person on board that recognized
the seriousness of their problem. They were past 18 hours en route when
the radioman finally picked up the Hawaii radio range. At first they
couldn't isolate a quadrant but at last the signal was strong enough
for the radio to tune it in recognizably. The AC, having no idea what
else to do, turned to the inbound bisector heading. After what seemed
an eternity they finally hit a range leg and turned inbound. The
radioman finally got contact with Hawaii and the AC declared an
emergency since he still had no idea how far out they were and te fuel
as getting lower by the minute. The nav was back in the cabin
sniveling, scared stiff. So was the radioman, but he was gamely working
his sets. The copilot was still asleep and the engineer had finally
realized they were in trouble as the fuel remaining got lower and
lower. Hawaii was also worried; all the other C47s had landed hours
ago. A Dumbo was scrambled out to meet them and eventually they
rendezvoused. The Dumbo ordered "Follow me' which the AC gratefully
obeyed. He said Dumbo took him right down the base leg at Hickam before
they turned him loose to land. He also said they logged just over 24
hours on the flight. Once on the ground he had a 'Come-to-Jesus'
meeting with the copilot and nav and told them he would never ever fly
with them ever again. I met the AC at Kelly Field in 1958 when I was in
the 1738th Ferron but have forgotten his name.
Walt BJ
Ragnar
> What I'd really enjoy hearing are the best stories y'all have heard
> about actual flyers in action.
I got a bad bag nasty once. Does that count?
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Yeff
> I got a bad bag nasty once.
Chicken, right? I'll bet it was chicken.
--
-Jeff B. (because the green balogna sandwhiches were *good*)
zoomie at fastmail dot fm
Keith W
"Krztalizer" <krzta...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1113693298.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Flight Sergeant Nicholas Alkemade jumped from his Lancaster at 18,000 feet
when it was hit and caught fire. As a tail gunner his chute was hung up
inside the fuselage and was shredded by the cannon fire from the night
fighter that shot them down.
Rather than stay and burn to death he rotated his turret and bailed out
without
a chute passing out during the 2 minute fall. He came to in a snow drift
having fallen through a thick pine forest and landed in a deep bank of snow
with only superficial burns cuts and bruises, mostly sustained when the
aircraft was hit and suffered only a twisted knee and slight ankle sprain
from the landing.
Naturally, the Luftwaffe authorities were highly suspicious of his story of
falling from such a height without a parachute, but on investigation
they found his shredded and unused 'chute in the crashed remains
of the aircraft.
Alkemade was shipped off into captivity in Stalag Luft 3 where he survived
the war and eventually passed away on 22 June 1987.
Keith
Masked Avenger
.
Tomorrow morning they'll lay the remains of Glenn Rojohn to rest in the
Peace Lutheran Cemetery in the little town of Greenock, Pa., just
southeast of Pittsburgh. He was 81, and had been in the air conditioning
and plumbing business in nearby McKeesport. If you had seen him on the
street he would probably have looked to you like so many other graying,
bespectacled old World War II veterans whose names appear so often now
on obituary pages.
.
But like so many of them, though he seldom talked about it, he could
have told you one hell of a story. He won the Distinguished Flying Cross
and the Purple Heart all in one fell swoop in the skies over Germany on
December 31, 1944.
.
Fell swoop indeed.
.
Capt. Glenn Rojohn, of the 8th Air Force's 100th Bomb Group, was flying
his B-17G Flying Fortress bomber on a raid over Hamburg. His formation
had braved heavy flak to drop their bombs, then turned 180 degrees to
head out over the North Sea.
.
They had finally turned northwest, headed back to England, when they
were jumped by German fighters at 22,000 feet. The Messerschmitt Me-109s
pressed their attack so closely that Capt. Rojohn could see the faces of
the German pilots.
He and other pilots fought to remain in formation so they could use each
other's guns to defend the group. Rojohn saw a B-17 ahead of him burst
into flames and slide sickeningly toward the earth. He gunned his ship
forward to fill in the gap.
.
He felt a huge impact. The big bomber shuddered, felt suddenly very
heavy and began losing altitude. Rojohn grasped almost immediately that
he had collided with another plane. A B-17 below him, piloted by Lt.
William G. McNab, had slammed the top of its fuselage into the bottom of
Rojohn's. The top turret gun of McNab's plane was now locked in the
belly of Rojohn's plane and the ball turret in the belly of Rojohn's had
smashed through the top of McNab's. The two bombers were almost
perfectly aligned - the tail of the lower plane was slightly to the left
of Rojohn's tailpiece.
.
They were stuck together, as a crewman later recalled, "like mating
dragon flies."
No one will ever know exactly how it happened. Perhaps both pilots had
moved instinctively to fill the same gap in formation. Perhaps McNab's
plane had hit an air pocket.
.
Three of the engines on the bottom plane were still running, as were all
four of Rojohn's. The fourth engine on the lower bomber was on fire and
the flames were spreading to the rest of the aircraft. The two were
losing altitude quickly. Rojohn tried several times to gun his engines
and break free of the other plane. The two were inextricably locked
together. Fearing a fire, Rojohn cuts his engines and rang the bailout
bell. If his crew had any chance of parachuting, he had to keep the
plane under control somehow.
.
The ball turret, hanging below the belly of the B-17, was considered by
many to be a death trap - the worst station on the bomber. In this case,
both ball turrets figured in a swift and terrible drama of life and
death. Staff Sgt. Edward L. Woodall, Jr., in the ball turret of the
lower bomber, had felt the impact of the collision above him and saw
shards of metal drop past him. Worse, he realized both electrical and
hydraulic power was gone.
.
Remembering escape drills, he grabbed the handcrank, released the clutch
and cranked the turret and its guns until they were straight down, then
urned and climbed out the back of the turret up into the fuselage.
Once inside the plane's belly Woodall saw a chilling sight, the ball
turret of the other bomber protruding through the top of the fuselage.
In that turret, hopelessly trapped, was Staff Sgt. Joseph Russo. Several
crewmembers on Rojohn's plane tried frantically to crank Russo's turret
around so he could escape. But, jammed into the fuselage of the lower
plane, the turret would not budge.
.
Aware of his plight, but possibly unaware that his voice was going out
over the intercom of his plane, Sgt. Russo began reciting his Hail
Marys.
Up in the cockpit, Capt. Rojohn and his co-pilot, 2nd Lt. William G.
Leek, Jr., had propped their feet against the instrument panel so they
could pull back on their controls with all their strength, trying to
prevent their plane from going into a spinning dive that would prevent
the crew from jumping out.
.
Capt. Rojohn motioned left and the two managed to wheel the grotesque,
collision-born hybrid of a plane back toward the German coast. Leek felt
like he was intruding on Sgt. Russo as his prayers crackled over the
radio, so he pulled off his flying helmet with its earphones. Rojohn,
immediately grasping that crew could not exit from the bottom of his
plane, ordered his top turret gunner and his radio operator, Tech Sgts.
Orville Elkin and Edward G. Neuhaus, to make their way to the back of
the fuselage and out the waist door behind the left wing. Then he got
his navigator, 2nd Lt. Robert Washington, and his bombardier, Sgt. James
Shirley to follow them.
.
As Rojohn and Leek somehow held the plane steady, these four men, as
well as waist gunner Sgt. Roy Little and tail gunner Staff Sgt. Francis
Chase were able to bail out.
Now the plane locked below them was aflame. Fire poured over Rojohn's
left wing. He could feel the heat from the plane below and hear the
sound of 50 caliber machinegun ammunition "cooking off" in the
flames.
.
Capt. Rojohn ordered Lieut. Leek to bail out. Leek knew that without him
helping keep the controls back, the plane would drop in a flaming spiral
and the centrifugal force would prevent Rojohn from bailing. He refused
the order.
.
Meanwhile, German soldiers and civilians on the ground that afternoon
looked up in wonder. Some of them thought they were seeing a new Allied
secret weapon - a strange eight-engined double bomber. But anti-aircraft
gunners on the North Sea coastal island of Wangerooge had seen the
collision. A German battery captain wrote in his logbook at 12:47
p.m.:
"Two fortresses collided in a formation in the NE. The planes flew
hooked together and flew 20 miles south. The two planes were unable to
fight anymore. The crash could be awaited so I stopped the firing at
these two planes."
.
Suspended in his parachute in the cold December sky, Bob Washington
watched with deadly fascination as the mated bombers, trailing black
smoke, fell to earth about three miles away, their downward trip ending
in an ugly boiling blossom of fire.
.
In the cockpit Rojohn and Leek held grimly to the controls trying to
ride a falling rock. Leek tersely recalled, "The ground came up faster
and faster. Praying was allowed. We gave it one last effort and slammed
into the ground."
The McNab plane on the bottom exploded, vaulting the other B-17 upward
and forward. It hit the ground and slid along until its left wing
slammed through a wooden building and the smoldering mass of aluminum
came to a stop.
.
Rojohn and Leek were still seated in their cockpit. The nose of the
plane was relatively intact, but everything from the B-17's massive
wings back was destroyed. They looked at each other incredulously.
Neither was badly injured.
.
Movies have nothing on reality. Still perhaps in shock, Leek crawled out
through a huge hole behind the cockpit, felt for the familiar pack in
his uniform pocket and pulled out a cigarette. He placed it in his mouth
and was about to light it.
Then he noticed a young German soldier pointing a rifle at him. The
soldier looked scared and annoyed. He grabbed the cigarette out of
Leek's mouth and pointed down to the gasoline pouring out over the wing
from a ruptured fuel tank.
.
Two of the six men who parachuted from Rojohn's plane did not survive
the jump. But the other four and, amazingly, four men from the other
bomber, including ball turret gunner Woodall, survived. All were taken
prisoner. Several of them were interrogated at length by the Germans
until they were satisfied that what had crashed was not a new American
secret weapon.
.
Rojohn, typically, didn't talk much about his Distinguished Flying
Cross. Of Leek, he said, "In all fairness to my co-pilot, he's the
reason I'm alive today."
Like so many veterans, Rojohn got back to life unsentimentally after the
war, marrying and raising a son and daughter.
.
For many years, though, he tried to link back up with Leek, going
through government records to try to track him down. It took him 40
years, but in 1986, he found the number of Leek's mother, in Washington
State. Yes, her son Bill was visiting from California. Would Rojohn
like to speak with him? Two old men on a phone line, trying to pick up
some familiar timbre of youth in each other's voice. One can imagine
that first conversation between the two men who had shared that wild
ride in the cockpit of a B-17.
.
A year later, the two were re-united at a reunion of the 100th Bomb
Group in Long Beach, Calif. Bill Leek died the following year. Glenn
Rojohn was the last survivor of the remarkable piggyback flight. He was
like thousands upon thousands of men -- soda jerks and lumberjacks,
teachers and dentists, students and lawyers and service station
attendants and store clerks and farm boys -- who in the prime of their
lives went to war in World War II. They sometimes did incredible things,
endured awful things, and for the most part most of them pretty much
kept it to themselves and just faded back into the fabric of civilian
life.
.
Capt. Glenn Rojohn, AAF, died last Saturday after a long siege of
illness. But he apparently faced that final battle with the same grim
aplomb he displayed that remarkable day over Germany so long ago. Let us
be thankful for such men.
Joachim Schmid
<http://www.blueangels.org/History/Hawkins/Bailout.htm>
Regards
Joachim
George Z. Bush
>> about actual flyers in action.
>>
>> v/r Gordon
>>
I was in a Troop Carrier outfit flying C-46s out of Brady in '52. On a practice
paratroop drop, the Asst. Flight Mechanic was back near the open troop door
after both sticks had deployed. He had neither a chute nor a safety harness on
when the aircraft hit a huge air pocket....it twisted and fell, leaving him
suspended in the open air about six feet above the open troop door. Fortunately
for him, the plane came right back up and plastered him against the inside of
the fuselage opposite the door. He suffered only bruises to his body, his ego,
and to his reputation.
The second one was with the same unit, which had moved its base to Tachikawa.
It had one of our planes inbound to Tachikawa from somewhere in Kyushu. The
airway took the plane over a number of small islands on its way to Oshima
Island, where the airway turned and headed into the Tokyo area. One of those
islands it flew over on its way to Oshima was marked on the charts as having
magnetic anomelies which were usually noted by wild RDF needle swings while
overhead. The pilot mistook it for the Oshima beacon and headed inbound. When
he finally landed at Tachikawa some time later, his plane was missing about ten
feet of wingtip that he had left on Mount Fuji.
I can provide the names of the two people involved, but prefer not to embarrass
them publicly by identifying them. Hand me the Bible if swearing truthfulness
is required.
George Z.
Krztalizer
these, grateful for all of them. Sure beats the crap out of wading
through political discussions :)
v/r
Gordon
Dudley Henriques
fondly from time to time when some of the pilots we know from the old days
and their wives are visiting and the drinks have been flowing for a bit :-))
I was out playing with some formation acro with a buddy of mine out over the
boonies. Both of us were flying Mustangs. I usually flew the wing position
when we did this.[ I never told John, but I had this aversion to having that
big prop of his that close up my butt...especially if we had been out the
night before!! :-) ] Anyway, I'm tucked in on his left wing back and down
about twenty feet when he calls for a 4 g loop. I slide back and inside just
enough to get a 45 degree position paint between my windshield bow mirror
and his left well cover [the position for a vertical maneuver that keeps me
from slicing off his tail section and bending my prop!! ] Well, I noticed
the altimeter was a bit low at the maneuver onset, but still within
parameters for the loop. John calls the maneuver and walks us up to 4g's.
I'm glued on the paint ; holding position. You get a peripheral view of the
horizon holding a wing position in formation acro. Without taking my eyes
off John, I knew he was long and fast through the float. On the way down I
felt we were long as well. The g didn't feel right...it wasn't enough!
Anyway, I'm beginning now to feel the g building at a faster rate than I
should be feeling......and this ain't good!! We're past vertical and I can
see the ground under his wing. You know.... that awful feeling you get when
you know you might be in too deep? Well I had it right there!!! You mentally
do the math and geometry instantly in these situations. I could see we were
going to make it, but it was going to be close....damn close! I could "feel"
that we had enough g available to make the recovery arc, but being low and
outside, I was committed lower than John was. He eased us out with enough
room under my airplane to MAYBE stuff that cow right in front of my airplane
between me and the ground.
Then I notice we're "in" a field with trees at the far end ahead of us. I
called Break up and right John!!...Give me some top room, quick!!! " John
pulls up and pitchbacks to the right just in time for me to go knife edge
between two huge leafy trees at the end of the field. I swear, I flew
between them left wing down inches off the deck, standing on the right
rudder with the stick just forward of neutral!
Moral of the story; if you want a hamburger, don't use a Hamilton Standard
24D50 prop to try and chop one up. Go to McDonalds and BUY one!!!!
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)
"Krztalizer" <krzta...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1113693298.4...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
WaltBJ
at Naha Okinawa via Nellis and the F86F in 1954. He flew the Sabre for
about four months and then 'they' took the beautiful Sabres away and
gave 51 FIW F86Ds. No guns. Rockets and radar. Well. One thing they
forgot was to send us anyone who knew anything at all about how to fly
them. So - we went to FTD school - one week - read the manual (once)
memorized the EPs, filled out the qustionaire and flew the beast. No
two seater, no chase, we just flew them like we knew what we were
doing. The birds were stilll factory-new so everything still worked. We
turned on the radar and began practicing lead-collision course rocket
passes on each other and our pair of T33s. Then one day a B29
volunteered to act as target - down around 10,000, where the air was
nice and cool in the okinawan early summer. Our GCI site wasn't up to
snuff either - they were used to working with the Sabres up high where
a Tallyho at ten+ miles eased their task a lot. Anyway The 29 set
course (and a lot slower than the jet targets) and the 86D was turned
in on it. The young pilot found the blip on his radar out about 10
miles and banked to center the steering dot. The computer steered the
86D to where the rockets, if fired, would blanket the 29. The young
pilot looked up as the scope's time circle started collapsing at 20
seconds to fire, blinked, looked again. The attack was coming in at
about 11 o'clock on the 29. He'd never seen a pass like that before. At
about 10 seconds to go the miss distance looked pretty damn close so a
4-G pull sent the 86D zooming across the top of the 29. The stud
complained to the site concerning being set up too far ahead and the
site controller repostioned both aircraft for the next pass. Meanwhile
the young brown bar was mentally chewing himself out for having finked
out of the pass. 'Keep the dot centered until the firing X appears,
then break! That's what you get paid for!' (maybe a bit too much of the
Nellis Tiger Program was still in effect) The next pass looked good and
a lock-on was effected and the young stud began diligently keeping the
dot centered. At 20 to go he looked up, saw this pass wasn't a hell of
a lot better than the last one, but he told himself "keep that dot
centered!" At about five seconds to go he glanced up and OMYGOD the 29
was right in front of him damn near head-on. A solid 7 gee pull sent
the SabreDog over the 29 and all was silent for perhaps 10 seconds.
Then the 29 pilot called "Unh - you aren't going to do that anymore,
are you?" The Dog pilot answered back "No, sir. I think I'll go home."
Once on the ground he sought his brand new flight commander, a crusty
weathered captain just in from the states. Don Milligan had lots of
time in the 86D and also had instructed in the bird. (FWIW he'd begun
his service in the Cavalry in 1939!)
"Unh, sir - these rocket passes - they can get pretty hairy . . ."
"What do you mean, son?" The youngster described the last pass anmd the
captain's eyes widened. "Didn't you do a conversion?" Stud; "What's a
conversion?" wondering what religion had to do with it. A few more
questions plumbing the depths of his new flight's knowledge of rocket
passes and a mandatory squadron ground school was immediately convened
concerning the proper way to employ the F86D - and also how to
recognize danger. These expert and thorough lessons undoubtedly
prevented at least one, possibly more, mid-airs since the captain was
right then the only pilot in the 25FIS who had any knowedge and
experience concerning radar computed lead collision course rocket
passes. The young stud? He just typed this . . .
Walt BJ
Dudley Henriques
F's for those Dogs without a wholesale revolt :-)) I'll never forget the
first time I saw one of those things. I was standing out in front of the
Dover AFB Base Ops building with a General friend I'll leave unnamed :-) A
transit Dog taxied in behind a follow me and parked right in front of us. We
just stood there staring at it. Finally, my friend says to me; "Just LOOK at
the stupid nose on that Son of a Bitch will ya.......why it
looks........FRENCH!!!"
:-))
Dudley
"WaltBJ" <walt...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:1113795290....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Dave Kearton
"Dudley Henriques" <dhenriques@noware .net> wrote in message
news:LmH8e.8752$sp3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net
| That's a great story! God, I don't know how you guys managed to give
| up your F's for those Dogs without a wholesale revolt :-)) I'll never
| forget the first time I saw one of those things. I was standing out
| in front of the Dover AFB Base Ops building with a General friend
| I'll leave unnamed :-) A transit Dog taxied in behind a follow me and
| parked right in front of us. We just stood there staring at it.
| Finally, my friend says to me; "Just LOOK at the stupid nose on that
| Son of a Bitch will ya.......why it looks........FRENCH!!!"
| :-))
| Dudley
This drift in the thread begs the question of are you aware of anyone doing
an exchange tour with (say) the RAAF or RCAF on their Sabre variants.
There's got to be some differences between these planes that externally look
quite similar.
We naturally like to think our Avon Sabres were the hottest performers of
the breed, however, the later Canadian Orenda Sabres are pretty spectacular
also.
--
Cheers
Dave Kearton
Keith W
On June 23, 1942 was feeling rather pleased with himself after completing
a successful sortie over England that had disposed of two Spitfires.
He was returning home to his squadron, III./JG2, flying his Focke-Wulf
back to his base at Maupertus-sur-Mer. He flew across the narrow stretch
of water and on sighting the airfield, he executed a victory roll and
landed.
Unfortunately for him he had just made the classic mistake of
flying a reciprocal course and that stretch of water was not the
English Channel but the Bristol Channel. He discovered his mistake
after landing whhen he found himself being held at pistol point
by a large RAF sergeant at RAF station Pembrey on the south
coast of Wales.
The RAF were rather grateful for this gift of a fully operational
example of the latest German fighter and the Oberleutnant
spent the rest of the war in a POW camp.
Keith
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Darn decent of the old boy, wot?
Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
Typhoon502
who stood on the ramp of one flying over Iraq in Desert Storm and
emptying his Beretta in anger at a flak site. :)
Les Matheson
the 8th SOS.
Les
"Typhoon502" <jeb....@gmail.com> wrote in message
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John Keeney
"WaltBJ" <walt...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:1113795290....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Ed Rasimus
wrote:
>OK, what IS a "conversion"?
An intercept runs an interceptor toward a bogey. In the days before
all-aspect weaponry (which makes it all too easy now), at some point
the flight path converts from a simple point-to-point which would
usually result in a high-angle crossing, to a manever which results in
the interceptor offsetting to allow a turn into the six-o'clock
position for weapons employment with low aspect angle (heading
crossing) and low angle off (distance from dead astern.)
When done properly, the conversion leaves the interceptor trailing the
bogey, same direction, dead astern at some point within the weapons
firing envelope.
Done too early and the interceptor winds up in the lead. Done too late
and the interceptor winds up in a hopeless tail chase. Done perfectly
and it's a think of infinite beauty.
Best I ever saw was a Spanish Mirage III that ran against me at FL 480
when I was trucking at Mach 1.6 near Madrid in an F-4C. A very
difficult task at that speed and he did it perfectly.
Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com
Ed Rasimus
The story was told in the early '80s when I was working exercise plans
at USAFE about the first live human pickup using the Fulton Recovery
System--that's the "whisker" bracket on the nose of MC-130 that
engaged a balloon suspended cable attached to a survivor on the
ground. The survivor got yanked up, the cable streams along the belly
of the aircraft where it is grabbed by a winch on the ramp and the
"lucky" survivor gets hauled into the airplane.
Pickup was successful, survivor got grabbed and hauled into the
airplane. He was unhooked from the harness and then in a moment of
jubilation and excitement at the success, lost his balance and fell
off the ramp out the back. (I can't verify the validity of the story,
but the special operations folks that I was working with, both from
Army SF and USAF Special Ops, all said it was true.)
We scheduled a live pickup for an exercise in Spain with a SF Lt. Col
as the "survivor." It was done in a fire-power exercise in front of
King Juan Carlos (himself a graduate of all three Spanish military
academies!) He declared it the bravest thing he had ever seen a man do
and promptly hung the highest Spanish peace-time medal on the SF guy.
Glenn Dowdy
"Ed Rasimus" <rasimu...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3a4a61l47sr4tlnek...@4ax.com...
>
> Pickup was successful, survivor got grabbed and hauled into the
> airplane. He was unhooked from the harness and then in a moment of
> jubilation and excitement at the success, lost his balance and fell
> off the ramp out the back. (I can't verify the validity of the story,
> but the special operations folks that I was working with, both from
> Army SF and USAF Special Ops, all said it was true.)
>
either. ;)
Glenn d.
Typhoon502
Marcinko was the first live human pickup on a Fulton (maybe he was the
first Navy pickup), and he's most decidedly not dead. I can't see a
Herc crew unhooking ANYONE from a safety line if they're standing on an
open ramp, though, unless they were intentionally departing the
aircraft.
Ed Rasimus
wrote:
As I said, the story sounds decidedly like urban legend, but the
planners from both sides of the equation--the SF guys who were willing
to be snatched and the AF/SO troops who ran the airplane--all said it
was true.
I've been in this business long enough to know a lot of things that
sound absolutely unbelievable at first telling really did occur. Among
the best are the two "pushes" by Robbie Risner in Korea and then by
Bob Pardo in Vietnam. Also the Zero-Length launch of F-100s flown by
Bob Titus. I know Pardo and Titus personally, and they are the real
deal.
Typhoon502
ARRS, and A3C Ronald Doll participated in the first human testing of
the Fulton surface-to-air, two-man recovery kit by an HC-130H at
Edwards AFB, California in May 1966." And www.globalsecurity.org
indicates that there has been only one fatality on the system, in 1982,
but it was in use for 17 years. BTW, I'm not bird-dogging you here, it
just piqued my curiosity and I wanted to search & share. :)
Glenn Dowdy
unbelieveable than I thought. The initial program with F-84s had mat
landings:
http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avzel.html
Glenn D.
Robert Briggs
> Flight Sergeant Nicholas Alkemade jumped from his Lancaster at 18,000
> feet when it was hit and caught fire. As a tail gunner his chute was
> hung up inside the fuselage and was shredded by the cannon fire from
> the night fighter that shot them down.
His grandson, Luke, took part in Channel 4's "Bomber Crew" series:
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/B/bombercrew/crew/
Peter Stickney
"George Z. Bush" <georg...@charter.net.nospam> writes:
> The second one was with the same unit, which had moved its base to Tachikawa.
> It had one of our planes inbound to Tachikawa from somewhere in Kyushu. The
> airway took the plane over a number of small islands on its way to Oshima
> Island, where the airway turned and headed into the Tokyo area. One of those
> islands it flew over on its way to Oshima was marked on the charts as having
> magnetic anomelies which were usually noted by wild RDF needle swings while
> overhead. The pilot mistook it for the Oshima beacon and headed inbound. When
> he finally landed at Tachikawa some time later, his plane was missing about ten
> feet of wingtip that he had left on Mount Fuji.
G.Z., I'm running on brain cells, here, but IIRC, there's a C-47
embedded in Mt. Fuji a little ways down from the summit, from 'bout the
Korean War period. Do you think it's possible for something like that
(Funky Navaids and a lot of look-alike islets) to have happened?
I wasn't there, but I get teh feeling that we went into the Korean War
making a lot of stuff up as we went along. Do you know what the state
of that boring infrastructure stuff (Navaids, Traffic Control, GCA, &
all those boring things that make the flying stuff pay off) was at the
time?
--
Pete Stickney
p-sti...@nospam.adelphia.net
Without data, all you have are opinions
Les Matheson
Les
"Ed Rasimus" <rasimu...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3a4a61l47sr4tlnek...@4ax.com...
Roger Conroy
"Robert Briggs" <Trebor...@BITphysics.orgBUCKET> wrote in message
news:42653D3B...@BITphysics.orgBUCKET...
In the version of the story that I know his parachute burned.
Jack
> True story.
Maybe.
Jack
Typhoon502
documented success.
WaltBJ
Of course it worekd fine since the P8 had a hard nose ad it worekd wekk
against the other '80's tailpipe. I was ina sutuation like this about
1956 - 4 F86Fs were doing airwork up at altitude and let themselves get
drifte from Oki to up around Amami-Oshima by a 210 degree/150 knot
jetstream. Leader let down on what he thought was Oki, flew south
looking for Kadena - nothing, started climbing up hollering for pigeons
(heading/distance) to Kadena. I remember his reply to the GCI site -
"165 miles? I've got 800 pounds left!" I was wingman on a two-ship
running radar intercepts against chaff from a Goonie Bird (all we had
at the time) and when we heard the chatter we punched off our tanks for
less drag and headed over to fly CAP on the flight. #4 ran out first
and bailed out over a little round island south of Amami. #2 landed in
the water. #3 made it over another small island and Lead made it to the
northern tip of Oki. I was flying his wing by then and thought about
pushing him - then I thought about that fiberglass nose and the intake
just below it and scrubbed that idea. He glided down and was over the
NW curving tip of Oki when he went out. Good chute and the bird went
into the water. I made a low pass and he waved he was okay. I left him
there, now kind of short myself, as about a 100 schoolkids were running
down from their school to greet him Japanese. Their squadron commander
got fired - that 18th Wing was firing a succession of them and in two
years had re-hire the first one because they'd run out of candidates -
all due to accidents. Always wondered why that automatic reaction of
the WingCO - fire the CO and that will fix things. Yeah, right.
Walt BJ
George Z. Bush
> In article <3Gu8e.9294$c42....@fe07.lga>,
> "George Z. Bush" <georg...@charter.net.nospam> writes:
>
>>> The second one was with the same unit, which had moved its base to
>>> Tachikawa.
>>> It had one of our planes inbound to Tachikawa from somewhere in Kyushu. The
>>> airway took the plane over a number of small islands on its way to Oshima
>>> Island, where the airway turned and headed into the Tokyo area. One of
>>> those
>>> islands it flew over on its way to Oshima was marked on the charts as having
>>> magnetic anomalies which were usually noted by wild RDF needle swings while
>>> overhead. The pilot mistook it for the Oshima beacon and headed inbound.
>>> When he finally landed at Tachikawa some time later, his plane was missing
>>> about ten feet of wingtip that he had left on Mount Fuji.
>>
>> G.Z., I'm running on brain cells, here, but IIRC, there's a C-47
>> embedded in Mt. Fuji a little ways down from the summit, from 'bout the
>> Korean War period. Do you think it's possible for something like that
>> (Funky Navaids and a lot of look-alike islets) to have happened?
Yes, it sure was possible. I'd flown that airways many times and we never
failed to get erroneous RDF station passage signals over that location but those
of us who were paying attention to our d/r ETEs knew that the only way that
could have been Oshima would have been for the jet stream to dip down to FL80 or
so at maybe 200k on that leg, and that just didn't happen.
This event occurred sometime in the Spring of '53. We had moved from Brady to
Tachikawa at the end of '52 to augment the air transport capability in the Tokyo
area after two C-124 squadrons were grounded because of in-flight generator
fires, leaving only one C-54 squadron operational to service that part of the
theater. At the time of the incident, none of us were overly experienced going
into or out of the Tokyo area, so they cut the A/C some slack.....he didn't even
have to face an FEB for his mental goof. The fact that we needed all of the
aircrews we had to help keep stuff moving in and out of Korea from Tachikawa
probably helped save his ass and his flying career.
>> I wasn't there, but I get teh feeling that we went into the Korean War
>> making a lot of stuff up as we went along. Do you know what the state
>> of that boring infrastructure stuff (Navaids, Traffic Control, GCA, &
>> all those boring things that make the flying stuff pay off) was at the
>> time?
It's a little fuzzy after all these years, but as I recall, the airways were set
up around various homing beacons. Tokyo Control used to pick you up after you
called in over Oshima and give you a steer to your destination airfield. Of
course, if you called in early (as he had) the same heading that would have
taken you from Oshima to Tachi took you from that islet to Fuji san and the ETE
was about the same for both. I don't recall that the airfields in the area had
ILS, but they did have GCA and they were pretty competent once they picked you
up. I don't remember that we had any VOR stations in Japan in those days, but I
could be wrong about that.
George Z.
Peter Stickney
> Peter Stickney wrote:
>>> G.Z., I'm running on brain cells, here, but IIRC, there's a C-47
>>> embedded in Mt. Fuji a little ways down from the summit, from 'bout the
>>> Korean War period. Do you think it's possible for something like that
>>> (Funky Navaids and a lot of look-alike islets) to have happened?
>
> Yes, it sure was possible. I'd flown that airways many times and we never
> failed to get erroneous RDF station passage signals over that location but
> those of us who were paying attention to our d/r ETEs knew that the only
> way that could have been Oshima would have been for the jet stream to dip
> down to FL80 or so at maybe 200k on that leg, and that just didn't happen.
>
> This event occurred sometime in the Spring of '53. We had moved from
> Brady to Tachikawa at the end of '52 to augment the air transport
> capability in the Tokyo area after two C-124 squadrons were grounded
> because of in-flight generator fires, leaving only one C-54 squadron
> operational to service that part of the
> theater. At the time of the incident, none of us were overly experienced
> going into or out of the Tokyo area, so they cut the A/C some slack.....he
> didn't even
> have to face an FEB for his mental goof. The fact that we needed all of
> the aircrews we had to help keep stuff moving in and out of Korea from
> Tachikawa probably helped save his ass and his flying career.
If I remember right, you were flying C-46s at the time. Given the amount of
time that the C-119s were grounded, or restricted from carrying passengers,
you guys must have been busy beyond belief. It's sort of ironic, in a way
- the -46 didn't really come out of WW 2 with a sterling reputation, but it
ended up as the reliable backbone of the airlift effort in Korea, was the
main aircraft of the Air Force Reserves through the 1950s, and stayed in
USAF service into the 1960s (Air Commandos). Not bad for the airplane that
nobody was supposed to like.
--
Pete Stickney
Without data, all you have is an opinion