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Is it a fuel gage or a fuel gauge ?

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Alora Duncan

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Nov 3, 2003, 12:08:18 AM11/3/03
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Q1: Is it a fuel gage or a fuel gauge on your dashboard?
Likewise ...
Q2: Do you measure fuel pressure with a pressure gage or a pressure gauge?

I'm confused. www.dictionary.com didn't help at all (they mix the two).
Please advise if you know the answer.

Thanks,
Alora

Daniel J Stern

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Nov 3, 2003, 12:36:04 AM11/3/03
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"Gauge" is correct. "Gage", like "flammable", is a fabricated wordoid
created on the assumption, not entirely without merit, that people are too
stupid to read, understand and pronounce the properly-spelled word
("inflammable", in the latter case.)

General Motors puts a "Check Gages" light on some of their instrument
clusters. Shame on them.

DS

Ray Haddad

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Nov 3, 2003, 12:58:01 AM11/3/03
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On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:36:04 -0500, Daniel J Stern <das...@engin.umich> wrote:

>"Gauge" is correct. "Gage", like "flammable", is a fabricated wordoid
>created on the assumption, not entirely without merit, that people are too
>stupid to read, understand and pronounce the properly-spelled word
>("inflammable", in the latter case.)
>
>General Motors puts a "Check Gages" light on some of their instrument
>clusters. Shame on them.

Looks to me like an alternate spelling.

http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=gage&matchtype=exact

Ed Price

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Nov 3, 2003, 7:41:20 AM11/3/03
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"Ray Haddad" <rha...@iexpress.net.au> wrote in message
news:kirbqvgsmk7gt60cd...@4ax.com...


A wise man observed that restrooms now only have a symbol on their doors, no
more "MEN" or "WOMEN". He thought, until recently, this was simply a
courtesy for foreigners.

Ed

Mike Romain

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Nov 3, 2003, 10:58:56 AM11/3/03
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Probably gage is American, like lite or labor and others. They seem to
drop letters.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

Alan Hope

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Nov 3, 2003, 1:18:20 PM11/3/03
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Ray Haddad goes:

>http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=gage&matchtype=exact

Alternative, surely?


--
AH

Email replies to alan dot hope at skynet dot be only
Clicking on Reply won't work

Larry Smith

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Nov 3, 2003, 6:41:10 AM11/3/03
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Gage and gauge are alternates.
I prefer gauge.


Mike Walsh

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Nov 3, 2003, 3:06:20 PM11/3/03
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Alternate as in incorrect.
According to my dictionary "gage" is a legitimate word, but has nothing to do with "gauge"

--
Mike Walsh
West Palm Beach, Florida, U.S.A.

Daniel J. Stern

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Nov 3, 2003, 3:20:26 PM11/3/03
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On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Larry Smith wrote:

> Gage and gauge are alternates.

No, they're not. "Gage" is a real word, but has nothing to do with gauges
of the type used to indicate fuel level, tire pressure, oil pressure,
engine temperature, charging system activity, and so forth.

"Gauge" is correct.

DS

C. E. White

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Nov 3, 2003, 3:52:01 PM11/3/03
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From webster.com -

Main Entry: gage (3) - variant of GAUGE

There are other definitions for gage that are different than the definition for gauge.
However, there are also a bunch of definitions for gauge that are different than "an
instrument with a graduated scale or dial for measuring or indicating quantity."

The English language is not static and trying to claim that what was false yesterday won't be
true tommorrow is a futile excercise. I'll bet you that gauge and gage have been used
interchangeably for many years. Only a overly picky English major would make an issue out of
this.

Regards,

Ed White

Thomas Tornblom

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Nov 3, 2003, 3:52:58 PM11/3/03
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Merriam-Webster says:
---
Main Entry: gage
variant of GAUGE
---

Looks sloppy though.

Daniel J. Stern

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Nov 3, 2003, 4:21:56 PM11/3/03
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On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, C. E. White wrote:

> The English language is not static and trying to claim that what was
> false yesterday won't be true tommorrow is a futile excercise. I'll bet
> you that gauge and gage have been used interchangeably for many years.

Lots of people say "Nucular" and "Febyuary" and write "Guage", too.

That means they're used interchangeably with "Nuclear", "February" and
"Gauge", but it doesn't mean they're correct.

Throwing one's hands up and saying "No point using the right word
(spelling, pronunciation)...English isn't static" is the fastest possible
route to pointing and grunting.

DS

C. E. White

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Nov 3, 2003, 6:23:18 PM11/3/03
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"Daniel J. Stern" wrote:

> Lots of people say "Nucular" and "Febyuary" and write "Guage", too.
>
> That means they're used interchangeably with "Nuclear", "February" and
> "Gauge", but it doesn't mean they're correct.
>
> Throwing one's hands up and saying "No point using the right word
> (spelling, pronunciation)...English isn't static" is the fastest possible
> route to pointing and grunting.


It is not a question of using the "right" word. All my dictionaries say
gage is an alternate spelling for gauge. I assume since you are such a
stickler for spelling, you also use colour and aluminium (instead of
color and aluminum)? Letters disappeared from those words as well - at
least in the US. How often have you been confused when someone used the
alternate spelling of gauge? Was the context so fuzzy that you thought
they were talking about offering combat when you saw "gage"?

Being pretentious about which recognized alternate spelling of a word is
"correct" smacks of snobbery. Personally I make enough typographical
error that I am not comfortable throwing language stones at others.

Regards,

Ed White

Dick Margulis

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Nov 3, 2003, 6:24:22 PM11/3/03
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Daniel,

First of all, as charmingly quixotic as your manning of the barricades
might be if you were more graceful about it, you are arguing from false
premises. You might be able to sell you twaddle in France, but there is
no Academy of the English language.

That said, you are also wrong on the facts. My 1856 edition of
Merriam-Webster (the oldest resource I have handy) defines the noun gage
in several ways. Please consider the following excerpts:

"3. A measure, or rule of measuring; a standard. [See Gauge]."

"7. The position of one vessel with respect to another. The
_weather-gage_ denotes a position to the windward; and the _lee-gage_ a
position to the leeward. --Totten.
"A _sliding-gage_; a tool used by mathematical instrument makers, for
measuring and setting off distances. --Encyc.
_"Rain-gage;_ an instrument for measuring the quantity of water which
falls from the clouds at a given place.v--Brande.
"_Sea-gage_ ...
"_Tide-gage_ ...
"_Wind-gage_ ..."

For the verb gage:

"3. To measure; to take or ascertain the contents of a vessel, cask, or
ship; written also Gauge."

Now I will grant you that the OED does not show _any_ reference to this
spelling as having the same meaning as gauge. But in American spelling,
it is clear that at one time gage was actually preferred in some uses.

I know I've encountered it in engineering documentation for decades,
with no sense that the choice was sloppy, ignorant, or unintentional.

Matthew Hunt

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Nov 3, 2003, 6:40:45 PM11/3/03
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In article <vqdou4j...@corp.supernews.com>,
Dick Margulis <marg...@fiam.net> wrote:

> Now I will grant you that the OED does not show _any_ reference to this
> spelling as having the same meaning as gauge. But in American spelling,
> it is clear that at one time gage was actually preferred in some uses.

Actually, the OED does list it, at least in the online version.

There are entries "gauge, gage, n." and "gauge, gage, v.1" which are the
relevant entries for this discussion. A use of "gage" is documented in
1580 and many times since then, in the examples. Based on their examples,
I think you could argue that "gage" has given way to "gauge" over the
centuries, not vice-versa.

Dick Margulis

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Nov 3, 2003, 7:08:45 PM11/3/03
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Matthew Hunt wrote:

Thanks for the update. I was looking at the Compact OED and just checked
under gage, not under gauge. Mea culpa.

Larry Smith

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Nov 3, 2003, 6:31:21 PM11/3/03
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"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3F5669CB...@mindspring.com...

I assume since you are such a
> stickler for spelling, you also use colour and aluminium (instead of
> color and aluminum)? Letters disappeared from those words as well - at
> least in the US.

Interesting, Ed. I have never thought to check whether those letters
appeared in the British variant of English or disappeared from the British
to form the American words.

For example, British 'centre' is an adaptation of French. Might be that
'colour',
'vapour' , etc are affectations by the British.

We have used the spelling 'sulfur' for at least 40-50 years, whilst (:>) the
British still use 'sulphur'.


Bob Pastorio

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Nov 3, 2003, 11:19:40 PM11/3/03
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Alan Hope wrote:

> Ray Haddad goes:
>
>
>>On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 00:36:04 -0500, Daniel J Stern <das...@engin.umich> wrote:
>
>
>>>"Gauge" is correct. "Gage", like "flammable", is a fabricated wordoid
>>>created on the assumption, not entirely without merit, that people are too
>>>stupid to read, understand and pronounce the properly-spelled word
>>>("inflammable", in the latter case.)
>
>
>>>General Motors puts a "Check Gages" light on some of their instrument
>>>clusters. Shame on them.
>
>
>>Looks to me like an alternate spelling.
>
>
>>http://www.wordsmyth.net/live/home.php?script=search&matchent=gage&matchtype=exact
>
>
> Alternative, surely?

This is car talk. It's "alternator."

HTH

Pastorio

Alora Duncan

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Nov 16, 2003, 12:11:01 PM11/16/03
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"C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > Lots of people say "Nucular" and "Febyuary" and write "Guage", too.

Likewise with "who" vs "whom". Because the proletariat never learned
logical language rules (he/she/who vs him/her/whom), the rest of us
have to presently weed through hundreds of incorrect usages to obtain
the secret formula.

If my quick search serves me correctly, I can throw down the (a)
gauntlet (gantlet) by stating the engine/tech/hobby afficianados
seem to vastly prefer: gage === a measure of
gauge === an instrument

At least it seems that way from a quick google search which
found a car dictionary willing to put forth the distinction:
http://www.100megsfree4.com/dictionary/car-dicg.htm
suggesting "gage" for (wire) sizes and "gauge" for instruments.

While rec.crafts.metalworking backed them up:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1994Sep30.132620.4340%40roper.uwyo.edu&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

And rec.boats.paddle covered gages & gauges:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3516B5CF.64B55A10%40tetratech-ffx.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Even rec.audio.high-end covers the gauge/gage topic:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=5rokul%24iio%40agate.berkeley.edu&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

And rec.motorcycle (those boys know the vast difference between
"riding" a bike vs "driving it):
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=pan.2003.05.25.13.00.12.654243%40networksplus.net

But, it seems mostly the AUTOMOTIVE groups hash out the distinction,
specifically with respect to General Motors gage gauge faux pas
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=385d9bfe.10728628%40spamkiller.newsfeeds.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Even generic "rec.tech" motorheads cover gage, guage, & gauge:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=35D11DA8.320%40onr.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=35F2E85E.E0A57A3%40uclink4.berkeley.edu&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

Also, it was covered in rec.autos.makers.ford.explorer, e.g., at:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=35196727.4772%40nowhere.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

And at rec.autos, e.g.,
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=9721%40orca.wv.tek.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain

In summary, the dictionaries can't seem to get it straight; but, it
seems that most motorheads go with "fuel gauge" and "american wire
gage"
and even "gage how much" for their troubles

Thanks to all for your helpful opinations :)

--
Alora Duncan

Dick Margulis

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Nov 16, 2003, 4:08:56 PM11/16/03
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Alora Duncan wrote:

> "C. E. White" <cewh...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>
>>>Lots of people say "Nucular" and "Febyuary" and write "Guage", too.
>
>
> Likewise with "who" vs "whom". Because the proletariat never learned
> logical language rules (he/she/who vs him/her/whom), the rest of us
> have to presently weed through hundreds of incorrect usages to obtain
> the secret formula.
>
> If my quick search serves me correctly, I can throw down the (a)
> gauntlet (gantlet) by stating the engine/tech/hobby afficianados
> seem to vastly prefer: gage === a measure of
> gauge === an instrument
>
>

Interesting post, and I'm impressed you did all that research; but it's
the sort of essay where you want to be doubly sure you've spelled
everything correctly that you intended to spell correctly. Word
>>>>aficionados<<<< appreciate it.

Alora Duncan

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Nov 17, 2003, 12:37:34 AM11/17/03
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Dick Margulis <marg...@fiam.net> wrote in message news:<vrfpsre...@corp.supernews.com>...

> Interesting post, and I'm impressed you did all that research; but it's
> the sort of essay where you want to be doubly sure you've spelled
> everything correctly that you intended to spell correctly. Word
> >>>>aficionados<<<< appreciate it.

Likewise, a bunch of folks sent me email stating I should have used:
vs. (versus vs)
currently (vs presently_
gauntlet (vs gantlet)
opinions (vs opinations)

And, some even corrected my punctuation, e.g.:
"driving" (vs "driving)
General Motors' faux pas (vs General Motors faux pas)
etc.

I am truly sorry if I offended anyone with my sloppy grammar.
I don't mind the corrections at all; in fact, I appreciate the advice.
Keep 'em coming!

Alora

Dick Margulis

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Nov 17, 2003, 6:59:26 AM11/17/03
to


Alora,

I thought that you were using gauntlet/gantlet as another example of a
common word confusion that has resulted in a linguistic shift; I didn't
realize you were yourself confused. Within living memory (mine), if you
spoke and wrote "correctly," the gauntlet was thrown down but you ran
the gantlet. Now the spellings and pronunciations have merged again,
with gauntlet finally declared the winner, to the regret of history and
etymology buffs everywhere. However, American Heritage Dictionary has a
usage note at gauntlet that sheds quite a bit of light on this.

Dick

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