Mansell-Tracy-Mi. Andretti
Jonathan David Kemp
would stay in there a bit longer. It kind of makes you want to have
Michael Andretti back. If only Michael had the unbelievable reliability that
Mansell's having! (Granted: last year was a development year, but 1991
was not and he still had early season mechanical disappointments.)
..............................................................................
Jonathan Kemp Columbia University
jd...@columbia.edu City of New York
..............................................................................
Yousuf Khan
>I like seeing Tracy give Mansell a run for his money, but I wish Tracy
>would stay in there a bit longer. It kind of makes you want to have
>Michael Andretti back. If only Michael had the unbelievable reliability that
>Mansell's having! (Granted: last year was a development year, but 1991
>was not and he still had early season mechanical disappointments.)
Man, you were reading my mind weren't you? I was just going to write
pretty much the same thing when I saw you message. :-)
I just finished telling somebody in e-mail how I thought Mansell
and Tracy are two new reincarnations of Superman. Except in this
case they aren't reincarnations of Superman. Instead they are
reincarnations ... of Villeneuve.
Yousuf Khan
Tim Dudley
yk...@gandalf.ca writes:
>I just finished telling somebody in e-mail how I thought Mansell
>and Tracy are two new reincarnations of Superman. Except in this
>case they aren't reincarnations of Superman. Instead they are
>reincarnations ... of Villeneuve.
Neither of them are even in the same class as Gilles Villeneuve.
Youve spent too much time watching ABC.
Tim
M. Adam Feder
> I like seeing Tracy give Mansell a run for his money, but I wish Tracy
> would stay in there a bit longer. It kind of makes you want to have
> Michael Andretti back. If only Michael had the unbelievable reliability that
> Mansell's having! (Granted: last year was a development year, but 1991
> was not and he still had early season mechanical disappointments.)
>
Michael the past few years and Nige has to do with experience and driving
style.
What I mean is that if you watch Michael Andretti he always pushes the car
to give as much as it possibly can at the moment. He rarely thinks about
saving the car for the end of the race. Now if you look at who he learned
from (good old Dad), it is easy to see how this mentality came about.
Don't get me wrong, I want Michael to succeed and have always been a Mario
Andretti fan, but they do tend to push their cars harder than some of their
peers (the ones who are as successful).
Now Nige, one of my favorite drivers of all time, seems to have a great blend
of experience, cunning, knowledge about his equipment and how to save it
(although he does not always display this one), and daring. All of this
leads to my conclusion that he is a great driver and would succeed in
whatever equipment he is put in.
I hope that the influence of Emo, Rick Mears, and Roger Penske will foster
the development of Paul Tracy into one of the best drivers of our time, but
that remains to be seen.
Let me know what you all think out there!!!
Adam
--
M. Adam Feder gt9...@prism.gatech.edu
Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets - 1990 National Football Champs
1985, 1990, 1993 ACC Basketball Tournament Champions
Go Jackets, Sting'em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dexter Medley
>What I mean is that if you watch Michael Andretti he always pushes the car
>to give as much as it possibly can at the moment. He rarely thinks about
>saving the car for the end of the race. Now if you look at who he learned
>from (good old Dad), it is easy to see how this mentality came about.
>Don't get me wrong, I want Michael to succeed and have always been a Mario
>Andretti fan, but they do tend to push their cars harder than some of their
>peers (the ones who are as successful).
>Now Nige, one of my favorite drivers of all time, seems to have a great blend
>of experience, cunning, knowledge about his equipment and how to save it
>(although he does not always display this one), and daring. All of this
>leads to my conclusion that he is a great driver and would succeed in
>whatever equipment he is put in.
Well, I'd say Nigel was not known for his car-conserving abilities in F1!
As displayed in the great Silverstone drive, Nigel was a balls-to-the-wall
type. I'd say he still is, and we'll see it more and more as he settles into
Indycars.
I'd generalize by asserting that there are drivers who use their brains
to improve their chances of winning, like Prost; there are drivers who
seem to always go as fast as possible, maybe because that's how they
fulfill their own needs, and I'd say Nigel in F1 was one of those; and
there are folks who are in between the two extreme groups. It's the mix
of motivations and methods that makes racing so interesting.
On another note, since someone started a thread polling folks on their
lists of three "best" drivers, besides the obviously eligible F1 and
Indycar drivers, I'd have to put Juan Fangio Jr. up there. Man, he
looks fast everywhere, and under any conditions, as at Lime Rock. I'd
love to see him in F1! Has anyone heard any rumors of any future F1
ambitions or plans?
Bob Kehoe
>Indycar drivers, I'd have to put Juan Fangio Jr. up there. Man, he
>looks fast everywhere, and under any conditions, as at Lime Rock. I'd
>love to see him in F1! Has anyone heard any rumors of any future F1
>ambitions or plans?
>
Uh, no.....but I've heard recently that
you *may* get a chance to see JMFJr in
a Winston Cup car at Watkins Glen!!
No lie!
bk
richard welty
*lists of three "best" drivers, besides the obviously eligible F1 and
*Indycar drivers, I'd have to put Juan Fangio Jr. up there. Man, he
*looks fast everywhere, and under any conditions, as at Lime Rock. I'd
*love to see him in F1! Has anyone heard any rumors of any future F1
*ambitions or plans?
i don't think he's a ``Junior''; he's named after his uncle, and i've always
seen him refered to as J. M. Fangio II.
as far as where he's going next, he's on record as considering Dan Gurney
a second father and the best boss a racing driver could have; i'd expect
him to be Gurney's number 1 driver in whatever series AAR competes in for
1994, and IndyCars are more likely than F1, i should think.
richard
--
richard welty we...@balltown.cma.com
518-393-7228, Infologic, 1400 Balltown Road, Niskayuna, New York
``Mario is slowing on the backstretch'' -- Tom Carnegie
Chris Prael
True. Tracy is not yet as good, though he does have the fire in his belly and
he may some day be as good as Villeneuve was.
Mansell, on the other hand, is in a class to which Villeneuve still aspired
when he died.
Chris Prael
S. Spenser Aden
I'm going out on a long, thin limb here, but I could swear that I had heard
that JMFJr had been racing for years, and that he'd already raced in most all
the world racing series, including F1. The only one I hadn't recalled hearing
that he'd been in is Winston Cup, and therefore I'd be inclined to believe
what Bob had heard. But then, I'm not completely certain that Winston Cup
would be considered by most to be a world racing series (PLEASE - let's not
start a flame war or discussion on this topic ... I love WC, but I'm merely
expressing my opinion ... no one need debate it with me).
But yes, I agree, Juan Fangio is truly a master at driving. I've only seen
his IMSA performances, but they are certainly stellar.
--
S. Spenser Aden -- spe...@fudd.jsc.nasa.gov -- My personal opinions only above.
"I put this down to a case of mouth oversteer rather than brain understeer ..."
- Paul Winalski
Tim Dudley
chr...@regenmeister.Eng.Sun.COM writes:
>In article 23...@bnr.ca, Tim Dudley <dudle...@xerox.com> () writes:
>>In article <1993Jun8.0...@gandalf.ca> Yousuf Khan,
>>yk...@gandalf.ca writes:
>>>I just finished telling somebody in e-mail how I thought Mansell
>>>and Tracy are two new reincarnations of Superman. Except in this
>>>case they aren't reincarnations of Superman. Instead they are
>>>reincarnations ... of Villeneuve.
>>
>>Neither of them are even in the same class as Gilles Villeneuve.
Mansell has won the World Championship. Gilles never did. I was
talking about Class.
Tim
(I can see that this is about to get out of hand, so hereas my final
shot. I think that Gilles was one of the greatest drivers ever. He
epitomized everything that I thought drivers should be - he was
aggressive, very quick, completely dedicated, extremely talented,
and very personable. He was like that when I knew him in Formula
Atlantic, and continued to be like that the whole time that I was in
touch with him in F1.
I think Mansell is very talented, very quick, a whiner, and a
complete jerk. (A friend of mine the other day said he thought
Mansell could save himself a lot of helmet money by just shaving
his head and painting it helmet colors - nothing in there to protect.)
I think he epitomizes almost everything I donat like in a driver. I
sincerely hope he doesnat kill himself and/or anyone else.
This is clearly all unsubstantiated opinion, and therefore
unassailable. It is how I feel.)
Robert Marti
as anyone. I'll never forget the sadness of his death, and I'll
never forget that sensational debut in the #40 McLaren M23 at
Silverstone.
Second, I guess I might get flamed for this, but I feel that just have
to set the record straight ...
In article <1993Jun10....@bnr.ca> Tim Dudley
<dudle...@xerox.com> writes:
> I think that Gilles was one of the greatest drivers ever. He
> epitomized everything that I thought drivers should be. [...]
>
> I think Mansell is very talented, very quick, a whiner, and a
> complete jerk. [...] I think he epitomizes almost everything
> I donat like in a driver. I sincerely hope he doesnat kill
> himself and/or anyone else.
So do I. As you seem to be implying that Mansell is liable to "kill
himself and/or anyone else" (on track, I assume) due to his character
and driving style, I just have to remind you that, unfortunately,
Gilles did both:
As a result of an ill-timed maneuvre in his first Japan GP (in 77?),
he summersaulted over one of the Tyrrel 6-wheelers and flew off the
road, killing at least one spectator.
As for his own death, he was certainly very unlucky, but many people
felt that he took too many risks in that fatal practice run.
As for sheer driving talent and personality, yes, I rate Gilles higher
than Mansell -- or Prost and Senna, for that matter.
--
Robert Marti | Phone: +41 1 254 72 60
Informationssysteme | FAX: +41 1 262 39 73
ETH-Zentrum | E-Mail: ma...@inf.ethz.ch
CH-8092 Zurich, Switzerland |
Yousuf Khan
>>>I just finished telling somebody in e-mail how I thought Mansell
>>>and Tracy are two new reincarnations of Superman. Except in this
>>>case they aren't reincarnations of Superman. Instead they are
>>>reincarnations ... of Villeneuve.
>>
>>Neither of them are even in the same class as Gilles Villeneuve.
>>Youve spent too much time watching ABC.
>True. Tracy is not yet as good, though he does have the fire in his belly and
>he may some day be as good as Villeneuve was.
>Mansell, on the other hand, is in a class to which Villeneuve still aspired
>when he died.
Well, okay, I guess I can agree with you here (it took me a while to
calm down enough to write this message, after such blasphemy :-).
Despite all the teary-eyed reminiscing we're all doing in the Villeneuve
thread, having watched over half of his F1 carreer first hand (at least
through the tv), Villeneuve wasn't pulling those amazing stunts every
race. It was often quite frustrating to watch Villeneuve because he
would go out of the race so often. Most of the time it was mechanical:
clutch torn to shreds, engine leaking oil all over the place, transmission
gears stripped smooth, etc. These really are never blamed on the driver,
but I'm sure Gilles' racing style had a lot to do with his horrible
mechanical breakdown rates. I could remember watching many of his races
and then a Homer Simpsonian "DOHP!!" would come out of my mouth, "his
#$#*% car broke down again!". And that was the end of his race. The
race would then lose all interest for me, and I'd probably flip the
channel with fifteen minutes or so, never watching till the end of
the race, since Gilles wasn't in it.
Mansell at least finishes his races. He has a tendency to wring his
cars' necks too, but he knows when to start massaging his car in
too. That's something Gilles never learned.
Watching Paul Tracy, I'm sort of reminded of all those frustrating
Villeneuve races where he gives it all away. "Dohp!!! He's crashed
again!".
Yousuf Khan
Yousuf Khan
>>>Neither of them are even in the same class as Gilles Villeneuve.
>>>Youve spent too much time watching ABC. Mansell, on the other
>>hand, is in a class to which Villeneuve still aspired when he died.
>Mansell has won the World Championship. Gilles never did. I was
>talking about Class.
>Tim
>(I can see that this is about to get out of hand, so hereas my final
>shot. I think that Gilles was one of the greatest drivers ever. He
>epitomized everything that I thought drivers should be - he was
>aggressive, very quick, completely dedicated, extremely talented,
>and very personable. He was like that when I knew him in Formula
>Atlantic, and continued to be like that the whole time that I was in
>touch with him in F1.
>I think Mansell is very talented, very quick, a whiner, and a
>complete jerk. (A friend of mine the other day said he thought
>Mansell could save himself a lot of helmet money by just shaving
>his head and painting it helmet colors - nothing in there to protect.)
>I think he epitomizes almost everything I donat like in a driver. I
>sincerely hope he doesnat kill himself and/or anyone else.
Yow! Now, now, even Mansell says he was influenced by Villeneuve
(in some way). He had requested the #27 Ferrari when he was with
Ferrari. During an interview prior to the Indycar season, he noted
how much more sportsman-like the Indy boys were than the F1 boys,
saying, "apart from Gilles Villeneuve, I've never gotten any help
from anybody in F1 during the time I was there".
Mansell did enter F1 about three years after Gilles did, so they
saw each other.
Yousuf Khan
Anton van Rosmalen
>>> and that its not supposed to be taken seriously <<<
>
> Yousuf Khan