1999 Accord Stalling problem
aam...@anchor.torolab.ibm.com
I have a serious problem with my 1999 Accord Sedan (4 cylinder). The
car is less than 2 years old, has 58000 km.
Once in every two weeks approximately the engine cuts out while I am
driving. It has happenned at all kinds of speeds (80km/h, 20km/h,
50km/h) and typically happens when I'm about to downshift (it is
a 5 speed) - ie. the clutch is depressed when the problem happens.
There are no problems restarting. Since I am already moving I don't
even have to crank it. Just continuing with the down shift and
releasing the clutch starts the car up again. In fact if I didn't
look at the dash - which lights up when the problem happens - it
would be hard to detect.
This is the third day I've had the car into the dealer. The first
time was in December when the problem first happenned. They could
not find anything. It has happenned several times since then.
Yesterday when it happenned I took the car directly to the dealer
(obviously after restarting by continuing with the downshift and
releasing the clutch). They have not found anything yet and say
that they are running the car to try to reproduce it.
It's obviously not suprising to me that they have not been able
to reproduce it yet - heck it only happens to me once in two weeks
on average.
My confidence is dropping fast.........
Being an engineer myself I do realize that there are some bugs
that are hard to reproduce and this makes them harder to find. But
surely there is some problem determination that can get to the
bottom of this.
This morning I called Honda Canada this morning and one of the
things they recommeneded is that the next time the car stalled that
I don't restart it, instead I should call a tow truck and get it towed
to the dealer so that they can look at the code the computer
generates. They claim that by restarting the car, the codes are wiped
out. This sounds unreasonable to me.
I would appreciate any insight from you folks on this issue. Does anybody
know if there is a way for me to get at the computer code from the dash?
I know that some other cars have a way to do this - my last car a dodge
neon did - after a prescribed bunch of steps the check engine light would
blink so many times as to tell you what the code is.
Frustrated accord owner,
-Aamer Sachedina.
P.S. The reason I sold my dodge neon and bought the accord (new) was because
the neon had a very similar problem that remained unresolved till the end
( after $1000 was spent on it ). :-)
Joe J.
aam...@anchor.torolab.ibm.com wrote in message
<9830mj$1ah$1...@hanover.torolab.ibm.com>...
>Hello folks:
>
>I have a serious problem with my 1999 Accord Sedan (4 cylinder). The
>car is less than 2 years old, has 58000 km.
>
>Once in every two weeks approximately the engine cuts out while I am
>driving. It has happenned at all kinds of speeds (80km/h, 20km/h,
>50km/h) and typically happens when I'm about to downshift (it is
>a 5 speed) - ie. the clutch is depressed when the problem happens.
>
>out. This sounds unreasonable to me.
>
fault does not occur again before that point. I'm not sure how many but it
does require the ignition switch be turned off and on again, so your rolling
restarts would not count. Maybe it's a problem that does not set a code if
the dealer hasn't found one yet. I believe to conserve fuel, according to a
Chilton's manual, when decelerating, fuel is cut way back. Maybe yours is
going too lean? I will look for that again in the manual to make sure I
understood it correctly. Joe
Thomas Hern
<aam...@anchor.torolab.ibm.com> wrote:
> Hello folks:
>
> I have a serious problem with my 1999 Accord Sedan (4 cylinder). The
> car is less than 2 years old, has 58000 km.
>
> Once in every two weeks approximately the engine cuts out while I am
> driving. It has happenned at all kinds of speeds (80km/h, 20km/h,
> 50km/h) and typically happens when I'm about to downshift (it is
> a 5 speed) - ie. the clutch is depressed when the problem happens.
>
My 98 does somethng like that, but not as often, and only when getting
warm. It will stall when shifting, but restart fine, and never again have
a problem that trip. Occasionally will stumble (buck, really) once if in
gear.
So far just irritating.
What is more irritating around here is that dealers (and dist manager) say
"If I don't observe it, I won't even think about it", well I am restating
that a little. Since that has been my experience with previous, as yet
unresolved, problem (occasional valvetrain NVH to car body), I haven't
even brought it up.
But would be interested your resolution, please post.
aam...@anchor.torolab.ibm.com
time trying to reproduce the problem with the attitude of "If I can't
reproduce it while the car is here then I don't really care"
Alas I doubt that my problem will be resolved.
-Aamer
Bo Williams
>
> I see the same attitude at my dealer. Basically they spend all their
> time trying to reproduce the problem with the attitude of "If I can't
> reproduce it while the car is here then I don't really care"
Very frustrating, I agree. Been there several times, though not with
Hondas. But, tell me--what would you have the dealer do? What can a
service department do with a car that has a problem, but that is
completely indistinguishable from an identical car *without* that
problem while in the service department's possession?
If you've explained the symptom carefully, and *you've* tried to
reproduce the symptom with a technician, and you've confirmed with the
service manager that no bulletins exist to correct the problem you're
having, what can you do but wait until the problem gets worse (and is
therefore more easily reproducible)?
--
Bo Williams - wrwi...@mindspring.com
aam...@anchor.torolab.ibm.com
> Very frustrating, I agree. Been there several times, though not with
> Hondas. But, tell me--what would you have the dealer do? What can a
> service department do with a car that has a problem, but that is
> completely indistinguishable from an identical car *without* that
> problem while in the service department's possession?
> If you've explained the symptom carefully, and *you've* tried to
> reproduce the symptom with a technician, and you've confirmed with the
> service manager that no bulletins exist to correct the problem you're
> having, what can you do but wait until the problem gets worse (and is
> therefore more easily reproducible)?
> --
> Bo Williams - wrwi...@mindspring.com
You are quite right. There's not much too much one can do in this
scenerio and perhaps I have let my frustration get the better of me.
It is an annoying problem to have but the problem itself does not
frustrate me as much as the attitude the dealer and honda have had
towards it.
It is important to note that although there is no service bulletin for
this problem and both my dealer and honda deny ever encountering such
a problem before, there are a whole whack of reports of this problem
affecting owners of 98-2001 accords. For example the NHTSA database
has 12-15 reports problems with pretty much the identical symptoms. When I
bring this up to Honda, they point out that such stalling problems
can be caused by a variety of things and I have no defence here. But
do note that these are all pretty new cars. It goes so far that
even the Lemon Aid New Car Guide (put out by the Automoblile Protection
Association in Canada) lists this specific problem as one of the
reasons why they have downgraded the rating on the Accord from
a 5 star to a 4. They point out that dealers have mentioned that
this problem is caused by a computer glitch and is not fixable
other than by a computer replacement.
In the light of this information, it does seem to me that there is
an underlying problem that Honda is ignoring.
Being an computer engineer myself I completely understand that
these types of problems are always a bugger to track down and
fix. We call them Hisenbugs. When I do encounter a customer
that encounters them, I realize the situation they are in
and throw all my support at them. Often these problems are
tracked down by elimination. If I suspect hardware then I suggest
that the customer try swapping out equipment that might be the
source of the problem - often at our cost when under a service
contract.
The funny thing is that when I have had
problems like this before on cars that were out of warranty,
dealers have suggested replacing all kinds of stuff that they
thought might fix the problem. They didn't mind it as long
as I was footing the bill.
The Accord is still a great car and the fact that I have this
problem with it does not turn me off it. The fact that it cannot
be fixed on the fly because it cannot be diagnosed easily does
not turn me off either. All cars have problems of this kind at
one time or another. But given the information I have pointed
out above, I believe that my dealer is being a tad insensitive
to the situation and this does turn me off my dealer.
-Aamer
Suen Lee
news:98j8o1$ob5$1...@hanover.torolab.ibm.com...
> The Accord is still a great car and the fact that I have this
> problem with it does not turn me off it. The fact that it cannot
> be fixed on the fly because it cannot be diagnosed easily does
> not turn me off either. All cars have problems of this kind at
> one time or another. But given the information I have pointed
> out above, I believe that my dealer is being a tad insensitive
> to the situation and this does turn me off my dealer.
Has your dealer checked the main fuel relay? I had a similar stalling
problem on my 99 Accord coupe and the dealership after much testing, seems
to believe it was caused by a defective fuel relay. After replacing it, it
hasn't happened since (fingers crossed).
Aamer Sachedina
You might have hit the nail on the head. I have kept complaining to my dealer
over the last few days.
On friday I was one of the fortunate few to receive a call from their customer
service dept. doing a
random survey on how my last service appointment went. I blasted them about
it and pointed out
that they had directly lost business as I was originally planning to buy an
extended warranty from them
and this experience had taught me that there was no point in doing so.
Today I received a call from a more knowledgable assistant service manager who
said that he would
follow the problem up with Honda. Within five minutes I was called back. He
said that Honda has
lead him in a very positive direction regarding the resolution to this
problem. They have suggested
checking out the Main Relay and the O2 sensor. They believe that problems
with one or the other
might go undetected and cause a stall of this nature.
It's rather silly that I had to make so much noise about this to get some
response from Honda about this.
But if it does get resolved, it will be well worth it. I'm keeping my fingers
crossed.
-Aamer
aam...@anchor.torolab.ibm.com
my car. It looks like this is the part that Honda Canada is recommeding
be changed for this problem. Thomas, you might want to suggest this
to your dealer.
-Aamer
Thomas Hern <he...@wcnet.org> wrote:
> I realize that this is difficult for them. But I am willing to help in
> the solution, The main thng is the attitude. Really quite a brushoff.
> If it is really "characteristic", which I think highly enough of Hondas
> not to believe, then I can't see buying another one in the future.
> I once had an Audi and went to an independent Porshe/Audi shop (one man
> then). Even when he was at the dealership he came up with ingenious
> solutions to difficult problems. So I am spoiled. I want someone to
> actually _think_ about it. Not just look in the book of officlal fixes.
> The problem, around here is made worse by the shops being unionized. But
> on the plus side, the new service manager at one local dealership really
> tried to think about another (and more annoying) problem I have. He
> thinks he fixed it, but hasn't really. But I don't feel so bad because he
> actually tried, and did not just blow me off.
> After 43K my check engine light came on, and turned out to be fuel
> pressure problem. Maybe that will solve the stalling problem (more
> accurately merely an annoyance in my mind).. So one can wait a _very_ long
> time for the problem to get worse enough to fix.
> Now if I could just find a good Honda shop, or else maybe go back to
> Audis, and the good service. Luckily he is still in business.
> (98 Accord. Had 87 Accord before-- much better car.)
Thomas Hern
<wrwi...@mindspring.com> wrote:
I realize that this is difficult for them. But I am willing to help in