Y&R- He's At It AGAIN!
Shirl
seriousness!
******************
From Entertainment Weekly:
Exclusive: Eric Braeden says it's 'end of road' in negotiations with
'Young and the Restless'
by Lynette Rice
Categories: Casting, News, TV Biz, Television
Genoa City fans who were holding out hope that Victor Newman will stay
should start prepping their goodbyes now: Eric Braeden told EW.com
exclusively today that “it’s the end of the road” and he’s “pulled the
plug” on any more talks to stay on The Young and the Restless. In
September, Braeden walked off the set of the soap that he’s called
home since 1980 after an ugly contract negotiation with Sony. The
production company wanted Braeden, 68, to take a pay cut but the actor
opted to leave, instead. Braeden told EW that he has since made a
counter offer (he offered to take a “substantial” pay cut on the top
of a voluntary 10% reduction he took two years ago) but it apparently
wasn’t enough for Sony. Braeden’s last appearance on the soap will air
Nov. 2.
“We reached an impasse in the negotiations,” Braeden told EW.com. “I
have shown flexibility, they have shown none. It is over. I pulled the
plug. That’s it. No more. If I show good will, I expect it to be
reciprocated. If there is a rigid attitude on the other side, what is
there to to negotiate? That’s a sign of utter disrespect. I will not
negotiate with people who remain aloof and arrogant about the whole
thing. Not after 30 years, I won’t do that. I’m saying this with a
great amount of sadness because I’ve had nothing but respect for my
fellow cast members, I have deep respect for the crew who has done an
extraordinary job year in and year out, and I have enormous respect
for (head writer) Maria Bell.”
Sony and CBS did not respond to requests for comment but an insider
with knowledge of the negotiations said Braeden, who had been earning
a seven-figure salary, would continue to earn a seven-figure salary if
he agreed to a pay cut. The cast and crew of Restless – which, at 5.12
million, is the most-watched soap in daytime today – have taken pay
cuts over the last year, the insider said. Braeden says he was the
first cast member to offer to take a pay cut two years ago.
Like most soaps today, Restless can’t command the same kind of rich
license fee from CBS that it used to because of the softening ad
market in daytime – thus Sony’s attempt to lower production costs.
However, Sony continues to make money off the popular drama by selling
its reruns overseas and to Soapnet.
Braeden said he’s exploring new opportunities but declined to
elaborate. “It’s slowly sinking in (that I’m leaving),” said Braeden.
“It’s sad.”
record hunter
> I just cannot believe he can say some of this stuff in all
> seriousness!
>
> ******************
>
> From Entertainment Weekly:
> “We reached an impasse in the negotiations,” Braeden told EW.com. “I
> have shown flexibility, they have shown none. It is over. I pulled the
> plug. That’s it. No more. If I show good will, I expect it to be
> reciprocated. If there is a rigid attitude on the other side, what is
> there to to negotiate? That’s a sign of utter disrespect. I will not
> negotiate with people who remain aloof and arrogant about the whole
> thing. Not after 30 years, I won’t do that.
He built this show from the ground up. How dare they? How *dare* they?
[pause] You got that?
Shirl
> > “We reached an impasse in the negotiations,” Braeden told EW.com. “I
> > have shown flexibility, they have shown none. It is over. I pulled the
> > plug. That’s it. No more. If I show good will, I expect it to be
> > reciprocated. If there is a rigid attitude on the other side, what is
> > there to to negotiate? That’s a sign of utter disrespect. I will not
> > negotiate with people who remain aloof and arrogant about the whole
> > thing. Not after 30 years, I won’t do that.
record hunter:
> He built this show from the ground up. How dare they? How *dare* they?
> [pause] You got that?
It's mind-boggling that he would/could have the NERVE to accuse them
of being "aloof and arrogant". Wow. Just amazing.
Shirl
Rthrquiet
> It's mind-boggling that he would/could have the NERVE to accuse them
> of being "aloof and arrogant". Wow. Just amazing.
Or one could look at it, I suppose, as evidence for the axiom "It
takes one to know one." I agree with you that it's . . . uh, eyebrow-
raising . . . to see him use those terms without, apparently, even a
trace of irony.
I am officially as sick of this saga as of the Gosselins (well,
almost). Neither party, Sony nor Braeden, elicits any sympathy from me
whatsoever.
Still, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around a Victor-less
Genoa City.
I wonder what this means for Melody Thomas Scott. If they basically
didn't want to renew her contract a few months ago and only did so
begrudgingly, and now Victor is no more, then will they keep Nikki
around?
(And given the state of the show, will anybody still care a year from
now?)
I think we may find ourselves looking back in a year or two and
realizing this decision was the beginning of the end. The love-Victor
crowd will have no reason to stick around, and as you pointed out in
the other thread, Shirl, the hate-Victor crowd who have stopped
watching and might be tempted to come back and see what GC is like
without him will tune back in and find very little worth staying for.
Michael
Mr. Hole the Magnificent
> I just cannot believe he can say some of this stuff in all
> seriousness!
He is on the right side.
By getting rid of "Victor" Sony has sealed the fate of the show, Y&R
could actually be cancelled before OLTL now.
santarosie
of to describe both Victor Newman and Eric Braeden.
Java
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well there goes our show. Next cancellation?????????
Java
Shirl
> He is on the right side.
>
> By getting rid of "Victor" Sony has sealed the fate of the show, Y&R
> could actually be cancelled before OLTL now.
I've said in other places that the show itself isn't in a position to
be rocked by big instability like losing the last long-time core
family patriarch. EB aside, I agree. Around the height of its success,
when EB would have these hissy fits, my vote even then was to let him
walk. Yes, it may have missed a beat or two in the ratings, but I
believe THAT group understood the whole dynamic well enough to have
turned the opportunity into a positive for a the show.
NOW, however, things are very different. I'm not sure I agree that
losing Victor/EB will "seal the fate of the show". First, the show is
HARDLY enjoying the same success currently -- the storytelling is, and
has been, atrocious for quite some time, and most of the characters
including Victor have been destroyed. I don't have the confidence or
even the HOPE that this current group is capable of using this
opportunity to the advantage of the show.
The sad thing is that as it continues to decline, and when it is
finally done, EB will, no doubt, think and preach about how the show
died because they wouldn't negotiate with him. The entire genre has
been in a decline for some time, and with all the behind-the-scenes
*and* on-screen changes in recent years combined with the very poor
quality of storytelling, losing EB/Victor is only one small factor in
the many that are contributing to the end.
Shirl
Shirl
> > It's mind-boggling that he would/could have the NERVE to accuse them
> > of being "aloof and arrogant". Wow. Just amazing.
Rthrquiet:
> Or one could look at it, I suppose, as evidence for the axiom "It
> takes one to know one." I agree with you that it's . . . uh, eyebrow-
> raising . . . to see him use those terms without, apparently, even a
> trace of irony.
Agreed. He mentioned that when he approaches something with good will,
he expects it to be reciprocated. HELLO! Did it ever occur to him that
the same is true in reverse! EB has HARDLY always been Y&R's public
good-will ambassador in the press whenever things haven't gone EXACTLY
his way! He wants them to treat him the way he treats them? ... well,
"you got it", sir!
> I am officially as sick of this saga as of the Gosselins (well,
> almost). Neither party, Sony nor Braeden, elicits any sympathy
> from me whatsoever.
I'm not feeling sorry for Sony -- some of their decisions in recent
years have been RIDICULOUSLY careless! But they aren't all over the
press talking about EB's conduct or trying to justify their position
either, nor should they. IMO, ALL of this should be as private as
possible, and the only reason it isn't is because EB is giving one
interview after another ad nauseam. EB elicits no sympathy from me,
either.
YOU KNOW that *regardless* of how they approached him with this "take
it or leave it" offer -- even if they'd sat down with him at some
ritzy restaurant with glasses of champagne in their hands -- he would
have still been all over the press talking about what a great asset
has has been to the show all these years (gag), about how this shows
their lack of gratitude because they aren't kissing his feet with $$,
yadda, yadda, yadda.
> Still, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around a Victor-less
> Genoa City.
I hear ya, but at the same time, it isn't as if Victor has made GC a
great place to watch in recent history! Seriously, his absence may --
or COULD, if a little careful thought and planning were applied (fat
chance) -- make GC a far MORE watchable, interesting place.
> I wonder what this means for Melody Thomas Scott. If they basically
> didn't want to renew her contract a few months ago and only did so
> begrudgingly, and now Victor is no more, then will they keep Nikki
> around?
*nods* ... I was thinking that as well. Still, they reached an
agreement with her where they didn't with EB. That may or may not
count for *something* with them. There's plenty of potential story for
her, even without Victor, but it WOULD take some time, thought and
energy that we haven't seen applied in the last few years. All that
aside, though, Sony doesn't seem to be into giving ANY consideration
based on personality, show history, or tenure ... it's ALL business.
> (And given the state of the show, will anybody still care a year from
> now?)
Some of us were asking that question one, two, and even three years
ago, and here we still are, although even the biggest diehards among
us don't care nearly as much as we did in those prior years.
If the show survives another year or two, most of us will likely still
be dishing, but it's probably safe to say our level of "care" will
NEVER be what it once was -- that has already been destroyed enough to
cure the "addiction" for most of us. Where nearly all of us here were
"can't miss" loyal fans, several have said we still watch enough to
know what's happening, but missing an episode or two or even a week's
worth isn't any big deal anymore. Pre-LML, I recorded every episode,
and only something VERY MAJOR would cause me to not watch. I haven't
recorded in eons. If I'm here and it's on, I watch; otherwise, no
biggie. I never dreamed I could be THAT laid-back about missing it.
EB's absence MAY, in fact, cause me to make a point of watching again,
at least in the short term, to see how they handle it and if they use
the opportunity to their advantage in any respect (doubtful).
> I think we may find ourselves looking back in a year or two and
> realizing this decision was the beginning of the end.
For me, the beginning of the end was when Babs put LML in power. IMO,
it has been all steadily downhill from there. She did some major
damage that the show has NOT recovered from, and subsequent behind-the-
scenes changes and decision-making have only made things even worse,
not better.
EB keeps talking about how wonderful MAB is, but I just don't see it,
and with the way he flip-flops his endorsements, it comes across as
self-serving rhetoric, hoping to solidify an inside advocate, plus
she's a member of the Bell family. If she were unrelated, I doubt he'd
mention her. He did the same with LML while she still had the power to
favor him; then, once she was out, he blasted her, too! That's another
reason it makes me laugh when he talks about "loyalty" when his is all
clearly timed to be self-serving.
> The love-Victor
> crowd will have no reason to stick around, and as you pointed out in
> the other thread, Shirl, the hate-Victor crowd who have stopped
> watching and might be tempted to come back and see what GC is like
> without him will tune back in and find very little worth staying for.
I'm afraid that will be the case, yes. Too bad. With the right people
inside, it could be an opportunity. On the other hand, though, it may
be a futile waste of time to put any energy into improving it or
turning it around at this point in time. It's way too far gone.
Shirl
Cheri
news:54ebb508-b9f3-45ed...@k33g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
He has been a great asset to the show, but the show has become bad in so
many ways, including his storylines, so his leaving now is not as big a deal
as it once would have been to me. I'm FF through so much of it now, that I'm
probably not watching 30 minutes of it a day so as the guv would say...hasta
la vista baby. :-)
Cheri
Shirl
> He has been a great asset to the show,
True, but it isn't as if NO ONE else had anything to do with that! The
former group built him into the character that became the focal point,
and they continued to write him as a front-burner character. The
"asset" to the show was a complete package. EB's acting ALONE isn't
all THAT extraordinary, if at all ... it was the overall package that
was an asset to the show. He was part of it, no doubt ... but the way
he tries to portray it as if HE did them a favor all these years is
really a delusion of grandeur...IMO.
Shirl
record hunter
I, for one, hope he doesn't let the door hit him on the ass on the way
out. It would be fine with me if they wrote out the entire Newman and
Abbott clans (and got new writers). I never liked any of them. I would
like to see what they do without *both* sociopaths. Get rid of Jack,
too, at the very least.
Cheri
Like I said, it doesn't matter at all to me anymore. I think killing all of
the old characters and starting over would work just fine for me. They've
turned most of them into such unlikable people that I really don't have an
ongoing interest in any of them anyway.
Cheri
Tony Cianfaglione
On Fri, 16 Oct 2009, Rthrquiet wrote:
> I wonder what this means for Melody Thomas Scott. If they basically
> didn't want to renew her contract a few months ago and only did so
> begrudgingly, and now Victor is no more, then will they keep Nikki
> around?
If they finally 'kill off' Victor, Nikki could always move on to
someone else, maybe Jack again. If not, when MTS' contract comes up again
in her 26 week term, they could always say, "I'm sorry but it appears your
services will no longer be needed."
Tony Cianfaglione
On Sat, 17 Oct 2009, Shirl wrote:
> EB's acting ALONE isn't all THAT extraordinary, if at all ...
Yes, but he plays that S.O.B., stick-in-the-mud, holier-than-thou, "I'm
always right", "do-as-I-say-or-otherwise-suffer-my-wrath", insufferable
meglomaniac with such proficiency, it's hard to see the show surviving
without him.
There's no one of his caliber on the show. How many times has
something happened that you think to yourself, "wait until Victor gets a
load of this - he's going go ballistic!" and it added to the excitement of
the show because you know Victor's ego WOULD go ballistic, if someone had
crossed him? He's a cartoon character but that's what makes him fun.
When you were a kid, how many times did you watch Wile E. Coyote get
flattened, blown up, skewered, crushed, crunched, mangled etc, etc, etc,
all while trying to lay his hands on a fast-flying dinner called the Road
Runner? It was the impending failure of his gimmicks and the anticipation
of Wile's downfall that made it fun. The same holds true for Victor.
It's the anticipation of Victor exploding from something he doesn't
approve of or authorize.
I'll miss him and may quit watching if he goes, unless Adam and Nick
step it up.
record hunter
I think the show will be able to *breathe* for the first time in a
long time with Victor gone. I won't miss him at all. What Jack and
Nikki will do in his absence, who can say? They can get rid of them,
too.
techte...@gmail.com
I can't see Nikki playing an another role or another show. It took her
30 years to act as Nikki. She was horrible when she came to Y&R
techte...@gmail.com
I am done with the show when he leaves. We will have to watch Adam try
to take the company from Nick. Victoria will be on maternity leave
soon. Neil won't be there to help Nick.
Cheri
news:Pine.GSO.4.64.09...@halifax.chebucto.ns.ca...
I think another tired old Nikki and Jack story would be awful, almost as bad
as Nikki and Paul...again.
Cheri
Cheri
news:Pine.GSO.4.64.09...@halifax.chebucto.ns.ca...
>
I always said, when he goes, I go...we'll see, because I'm just not watching
that much of it now.
Cheri
Niki
> Like I said, it doesn't matter at all to me anymore. I think killing all
> of the old characters and starting over would work just fine for me.
> They've turned most of them into such unlikable people that I really
> don't have an ongoing interest in any of them anyway.
That is such a sad sentiment Cheri. But so true and sad.
--
Niki
Niki
I sure hope she doesn't leave. Y&R is so off track right now. If the
core family members go, it's not going to be good at all.
--
Niki
Niki
I so agree with all this Tony. Great analogy. I don't want to see anyone
"core" go. I want to see better writing.
--
Niki
Cory
> I just cannot believe he can say some of this stuff in all
> seriousness!
>
> ******************
>
> From Entertainment Weekly:
>
> Exclusive: Eric Braeden says it's 'end of road' in negotiations with
> 'Young and the Restless'
> by Lynette Rice
> Categories: Casting, News, TV Biz, Television
<snip...>
> The cast and crew of Restless � which, at 5.12
> million, is the most-watched soap in daytime today
5.1 million people make up the viewership of the MOST WATCHED soap these
days???
That's around half a million less than the population of the entire
metropolitan area of HOUSTON, TX. In other words, theoretically, you
could say that the metropolitan area of Houston, TX, is watching Y&R
(and even less people are watching other soaps), and no one else in the
country (remember, I said theoretically!)... just Houston, TX.
That's how many people are watching the most watched soap these days???
IMNSHO, that's kinda pathetic.
--- Cory
Niki
> 5.1 million people make up the viewership of the MOST WATCHED soap these
> days???
>
> That's around half a million less than the population of the entire
> metropolitan area of HOUSTON, TX. In other words, theoretically, you
> could say that the metropolitan area of Houston, TX, is watching Y&R
> (and even less people are watching other soaps), and no one else in the
> country (remember, I said theoretically!)... just Houston, TX.
>
> That's how many people are watching the most watched soap these days???
>
> IMNSHO, that's kinda pathetic.
Wow. That's one way to put it. Interesting concept. I know viewership
has dropped in recent years. The stories suck and the writing is so bad
so I can understand why people aren't watching. It's not engaging like
it once was.
--
Niki
startrek granny
spoiler, don't hit me!- that the gorgeous hunk, Bobby Marsino, is
returning to Genoa City ? What a hot couple they would be !
MarkH
> 5.1 million people make up the viewership of the MOST WATCHED soap these
> days???
>
> That's around half a million less than the population of the entire
> metropolitan area of HOUSTON, TX. In other words, theoretically, you
> could say that the metropolitan area of Houston, TX, is watching Y&R
> (and even less people are watching other soaps), and no one else in the
> country (remember, I said theoretically!)... just Houston, TX.
>
> That's how many people are watching the most watched soap these days???
>
> IMNSHO, that's kinda pathetic.
>
> --- Cory
Well, Cory, that might sound pathetic...but Y&R is actually at the top
of the distribution in terms of overall serial viewership (daytime/
primetime). The numbers you are decrying reflect the overall decline
of broadcast TV...and not just Y&R. Here are last week's figures, to
put it in perspective. Now I'm not disagreeing that these numbers are
anemic, but if you put them in the context of overall anemic
numbers...it sort of makes it seem less like the 'fall of daytime' and
more like the 'fall of TV'. The number one show is Grey's, with
almost 14 million. That is PATHETIC. Just 5 years ago, Lost was
getting 16 Million, and Desperate Housewives was doing even better.
Indeed, my last look at this issue suggested that the rate of decline
in primetime was actually STEEPER than that in daytime--in both
absolute and proportional terms.
http://www.welovesoaps.net/2009/10/soap-opera-tv-ratings-for-oct-5-11-2009.html
--Begin quoted text--
Compiled from a list of several sources, here are the Nielsen ratings
for the week of October 5-9, 2009 for all the daytime and primetime
television soap operas.
GREY'S ANATOMY (13.8 million, 8.9/14)
THE GOOD WIFE (13.4 million, 8.7/15)
DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES (13.1 million, 8.0/12)
PRIVATE PRACTICE (9.5 million, 6.3/11)
BROTHERS & SISTERS (9 million, 5.9/10)
FLASHFORWARD (9 million, 5.9/9)
GLEE (7.3 million, 4.5/7)
MANANA ES PARA SIEMPRE (7.3 million) - Monday finale + more viewers
than NBC & CW
HEROES (5.4 million, 3.3/5)
EASTWICK (5.3 million, 3.7/6)
***THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS (4.95 million, 3.6/12) - daytime airing
only
THE VAMPIRE DIARIES (3.5 million, 2.1/3)
THE BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL (3.25 million, 2.3/8)
FLASHFORWARD (3.1 million, 2.2/4)) - Friday repeat
DAYS OF OUR LIVES (3.0 million, 2.2/8) - daytime airing only
GENERAL HOSPITAL (2.51 million, 1.9/6) - daytime airing only
ALL MY CHILDREN (2.47 million, 1.7/6) - daytime airing only
AS THE WORLD TURNS (2.42 million, 1.8/6)
ONE LIFE TO LIVE (2.40 million, 1.9/6) - daytime airing only
ONE TREE HILL (2.2 million, 1.5/2)
90210 (2.2 million, 1.6/3)
GOSSIP GIRL (2.1 million, 1.5/2)
MELROSE PLACE (1.6 million, 1.2/2)
MELROSE PLACE (1.1 million, 0.8/1) - Wednesday repeat
LINCOLN HEIGHTS (0.86 million)
GREEK (0.74 million)
In other ratings news, LET'S MAKE A DEAL averaged a 1.5 household
rating for its first half hour (0.6 in W18-49) and 1.6 in the second
(0.7 in W18-49) which was below all the daytime soaps. If historical
trends hold this does not bold well for the game show. The profit
margin may be better than a soap with a similar or slightly better
ratings, but the loyalty of the audience is not the same and these
shows tends to dive fast.
--End quoted text--
Shirl
> Wow. That's one way to put it. Interesting concept. I know viewership
> has dropped in recent years. The stories suck and the writing is so bad
> so I can understand why people aren't watching. It's not engaging like
> it once was.
While there have always been complaints, I don't think I've *ever*
seen THIS much of a consensus that the storytelling itself sucks!
As predicted when people were saying, "Yeah, but the acting continues
to be excellent", or "Yeah, but the individual scenes are
compelling!", they can't rely on great acting, individual scenes or
even individual episodes to take up the slack for poor quality, long-
term writing indefinitely. Eventually, it catches up with them and
viewers realize that good acting or not, they're watching SLOP, and it
*isn't* changing for the better, as time passes.
There's a fairly consistent consensus now. One wonders if they even
realize it or if they're still patting themselves on the back for
doing such a great job and not making any mistakes. Har! We'll see if
the random sampling of online viewers is really as insignificant a
representation of their overall viewership as they seem to think.
Shirl
record hunter
> GREY'S ANATOMY (13.8 million, 8.9/14)
> THE GOOD WIFE (13.4 million, 8.7/15)
> DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES (13.1 million, 8.0/12)
> BROTHERS & SISTERS (9 million, 5.9/10)
> FLASHFORWARD (9 million, 5.9/9)
> GLEE (7.3 million, 4.5/7)
I watch all of these, but I am probably going to give up on all ABC
shows except B&S and FF. They've started using "smeary cam" like on
AMC. It's so distracting. I think this bothers me the way "shaky cam"
bothers other people, though I don't even notice "shaky cam."
record hunter
> Niki:
>
> > Wow. That's one way to put it. Interesting concept. I know viewership
> > has dropped in recent years. The stories suck and the writing is so bad
> > so I can understand why people aren't watching. It's not engaging like
> > it once was.
>
> While there have always been complaints, I don't think I've *ever*
> seen THIS much of a consensus that the storytelling itself sucks!
>
> As predicted when people were saying, "Yeah, but the acting continues
> to be excellent", or "Yeah, but the individual scenes are
> compelling!", they can't rely on great acting, individual scenes or
> even individual episodes to take up the slack for poor quality, long-
> term writing indefinitely. Eventually, it catches up with them and
> viewers realize that good acting or not, they're watching SLOP, and it
> *isn't* changing for the better, as time passes.
For me, it ended with the Deacon storyline. There was just no reason
to visit that excrescence upon us. And because storylines are so
interconnected these days, that means I'm not keeping up with a lot of
characters I actually like, or at least *used* to like.
Then, when I found out about Victor and Colleen, there became no
reason to watch at all. I probably watched an episode and a half last
week. I may watch today, as Ashley and Victor are going to be on, and
I am curious as to how they're going to write him out. It's the kind
of thing that might show up in flashbacks for months to come, so I
figure I'll watch the original version.
Cheri
news:4378e86e-8f25-4946-b53a-
> Then, when I found out about Victor and Colleen, there became no
> reason to watch at all. I probably watched an episode and a half last
To me that was a huge mistake, almost as bad as Victor and Sabrina. Both
stories emphasized the fact that Victor is old now, which made him seem kind
of pathetic to me when he tried to pull the fistacuff thing with JT, Billy,
etc. In the hospital bed he looks like a tired old man trying to hang onto
the way it used to be. He lost his *power* with those stories, at least
that's the way I see it.
Cheri
Diva
> "record hunter" <record.hun...@gmail.com> wrote in message
I am getting progressively more depressed with each episode of "mad
Men." There are three more to come before X-Mas break. The trouble is
the adults I knew during the late 1950's and the 1960's behaved
exactly like Don and Bets.
Diva
Nyssa
< much interesting ratings information snipped >
>
> In other ratings news, LET'S MAKE A DEAL averaged a 1.5 household
> rating for its first half hour (0.6 in W18-49) and 1.6 in the second
> (0.7 in W18-49) which was below all the daytime soaps. If historical
> trends hold this does not bold well for the game show. The profit
> margin may be better than a soap with a similar or slightly better
> ratings, but the loyalty of the audience is not the same and these
> shows tends to dive fast.
>
I think another factor needs to be added into
the mix when judging daytime ratings numbers
on specific shows.
Some markets are moving shows around into
what they consider more convenient timeslots
locally or deciding not to broadcast a show
at all.
For example: LMAD is not being shown in
the Richmond, VA, market. They've chosen
to move Ellen DeGeneris into the slot vacated
by GL. (A decision my neighbor is upset about;
she actually would *like* to watch LMAD. lol)
It's been commented on that other markets
have chosen not to show LMAD and have stuck
in court shows or other chat shows instead.
As noted here in ratsc in other postings,
GL was moved or dropped by stations in some
markets some time ago, which may have helped
push it into oblivion.
Now we're hearing that some markets are tinkering
with their daytime schedule by moving Y&R (or
B&B or ATWT) to later in the afternoon or early
morning timeslots.
All of these decisions by local affiliates
to tinker with the schedule can play hob with
the ratings numbers. Can you imagine a local
affiliate making these moves to primetime
shows? But they seem to think it's okay for
daytime where viewer loyalty is even more
important.
This is just an observation that may help
explain some of the poor national numbers
being shown by daytime shows. Not all of
it, by any means, but at least some of it
when every viewer is important.
Nyssa, who is down to less than two hours
average TV viewing per day
Niki
> Niki:
>> Wow. That's one way to put it. Interesting concept. I know viewership
>> has dropped in recent years. The stories suck and the writing is so bad
>> so I can understand why people aren't watching. It's not engaging like
>> it once was.
> While there have always been complaints, I don't think I've *ever*
> seen THIS much of a consensus that the storytelling itself sucks!
I haven't either Shirl. The stories are hideous and so full of holes.
It's like some psycho's weird fantasy at work here. There are too many
bad things going on. No one wants to see that 5 days a week. There has
to be some balance as you've always said. It's too much dark side and
doom and gloom and idiocy. Nothing is making sense.
> As predicted when people were saying, "Yeah, but the acting continues
> to be excellent", or "Yeah, but the individual scenes are
> compelling!", they can't rely on great acting, individual scenes or
> even individual episodes to take up the slack for poor quality, long-
> term writing indefinitely. Eventually, it catches up with them and
> viewers realize that good acting or not, they're watching SLOP, and it
> *isn't* changing for the better, as time passes.
I find the acting fine for the material they are given. I don't know how
they do it with a straight face. On a side note, the writing is so bad,
all the major characters are seeming to become very one note. *ALL* of
them. I don't find that engaging nor watchable. How could they ruin so
many people in so few scripts?
> There's a fairly consistent consensus now. One wonders if they even
> realize it or if they're still patting themselves on the back for
> doing such a great job and not making any mistakes. Har! We'll see if
> the random sampling of online viewers is really as insignificant a
> representation of their overall viewership as they seem to think.
It seems intentional at this point. I don't understand why. If they plan
on x-ing the show, why not go out on high note? What the current PTB are
doing is alienating so many viewers and that doesn't seem to be the
logical thing to do. People have watched this show for 36 years. It
makes no sense.
--
Niki
Cheri
news:35c6b9c9-890b-4b99...@l33g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
Diva
============
Strange, I never actually knew one couple that behaved that way sexually,
though some that were snobby with other women who didn't fit the mold. I'm
sure some did behave that way sexually, but they kept it to themselves and
well hidden in my circle if they did. Most of them are still together. I
love Mad Men for the nostalgia, furniture, clothes, expressions, etc., but
the people leave a lot to be desired IMO. I'm beginning to despise Don. The
only one I really like is the gay man that was fired for not accepting
advances from a client. :-)
Cheri
Primula X
According to daytimeconfidential.com someone named William Russ is going
to play Tucker, the new billionaire businessman on Y&R.
Darn...I was so hoping they'd get Ron Raines for the role.
Cheri
news:hbi26r$idr$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
TG for being able to tape CSI Miami and Criminal Minds. :-)
Cheri
record hunter
> to play Tucker, the new billionaire businessman on Y&R.
He's been in evvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvverything. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0750916/
Cheri
Hey, where's your spoiler space, you know how much I hate them. ;-)
Cheri
Niki
> On Oct 19, 10:35 am, MarkH <markhs...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES (13.1 million, 8.0/12)
> I watch all of these, but I am probably going to give up on all ABC
> shows except B&S and FF. They've started using "smeary cam" like on
> AMC. It's so distracting. I think this bothers me the way "shaky cam"
> bothers other people, though I don't even notice "shaky cam."
I LOVE DH! Last nite's ep with Lynette's boobs was funny. Of course
Katherine has gone around the bend. I adore Bree as she pulled out her
shot gun and pointed and shot at Orson.
I'm just supposing that once a week shows may have better writing
because they don't have to do the volume that 5 days a week soaps do.
It's just a thought.
--
Niki
Shirl
> To me that was a huge mistake, almost as bad as Victor and Sabrina. Both
> stories emphasized the fact that Victor is old now, which made him seem kind
> of pathetic to me when he tried to pull the fistacuff thing with JT, Billy,
> etc. In the hospital bed he looks like a tired old man trying to hang onto
> the way it used to be. He lost his *power* with those stories, at least
> that's the way I see it.
For me, Victor didn't have to be "powerful" to be interesting; in
fact, I'd grown tired of stories built around his "power" years ago.
But that's no excuse, IMO, for the garbage they've written for him,
some before but definitely with and since the Sabrina story. Trying to
give benefit of the doubt, I've always tried to see and understand
what they were trying to convey, but this stuff just makes NO sense
whatsoever...it doesn't address his supposed intelligence (a man who
could build a company "from the ground up" to THAT level and maintain
it there for ALL those years has to have SOME level of intelligence!),
his life experiences, and just the plain 'ole humanity that sets in as
MOST people age. I personally don't find that boring, if done well,
and interweaving that with the youngins can also be interesting. I
haven't, however, seen anything of interest where Victor is concerned
over Y&R's recent (last few years) history.
Shirl
record hunter
> I love Mad Men for the nostalgia, furniture, clothes, expressions, etc., but
> the people leave a lot to be desired IMO. I'm beginning to despise Don. The
> only one I really like is the gay man that was fired for not accepting
> advances from a client. :-)
I'm starting to hate Don, too. I hope Sal doesn't kill himself.
Stonewall is still six years away, though, so...
record hunter
> "record hunter" <record.hun...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Well, that's just further proof that the system doesn't work. I was
responding to a thread entitled "Y&R: He's at it AGAIN!" And a winky
thing back at you.
Cheri
I saw him on Ghost Whisperer Friday night, and it looks like he might be a
regular for Delia, so I wondered if they had written him out. I'm with you,
I hope he doesn't kill himself, but I was thinking last episode that he
would, and then I will be a full blown Don hater. I hated the way that
hypocrite treated him.
Cheri
record hunter
> "record hunter" <record.hun...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Peyton List is on two shows this season, Mad Men and Flash Forward, so
there may be hope for Sal. I really don't want him to be written out.
Tony Cianfaglione
On Mon, 19 Oct 2009, Primula X wrote:
> scroll down...
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> According to daytimeconfidential.com someone named William Russ is going
> to play Tucker, the new billionaire businessman on Y&R.
I wonder if he is related to Tim Russ, who played Tuvok on Star Trek:
Voyager. If so, that would introduce a very powerful new African-American
man (and potential family) on the show. The show's minority landscape had
been getting rather lean lately since Susan, Tyra, Ana, Olivia, Malcolm
and Dru have left and Neil and Devon have been reduced to rather minor
appearances, leaving only Lily. Rafe and Estella are nowhere to be seen
these days either.
Niki
And a winky thing back at you.
That made me laugh and smile!! Thanks RH.
--
Niki
Rthrquiet
Not a newcomer to soaps, either. I remember him as Burt McGowan 30
years ago on Another World.
I do have to roll my eyes at the lameness of TPTB. So, exit Victor,
enter a "new billionaire businessman" with little real connection to
Genoa City, and certainly no history, and one is supposed to replace
the other, as though "billionaire businessman" is an interchangeable
commodity? If one leaves, just bring in another?
It doesn't work that way.
It's not a newsflash that TPTB these days don't "get" soaps, but I
continue to be astonished at the crude and obvious ways in which they
don't "get" them. Before Susan Lucci agreed to be part of the new,
West Coast-based All My Children, TPTB at ABC were planning to hire
another "diva" to join the cast--as though any old diva would do, and
you could just replace Erica Kane with some other high-profile soap
actress and presto! problem solved. As if!
Michael
queenie
record hunter
> On Mon, 19 Oct 2009, Primula X wrote:
> > scroll down...
>
> > According to daytimeconfidential.com someone named William Russ is going
> > to play Tucker, the new billionaire businessman on Y&R.
>
> I wonder if he is related to Tim Russ, who played Tuvok on Star Trek:
> Voyager. If so, that would introduce a very powerful new African-American
> man (and potential family) on the show.
Nope. White guy.
MarkH
No connection?
Spoiler space (though at present this is ONLY speculation I have read
elsewhere)
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Remember, Jill is NOT the baby Kay gave away.
What if the baby Kay gave away was NOT a girl, but a boy?
What if that boy became a decent self-made man/billionaire (yup, like
Victor)? What if his name was Tucker?
Now, we have the new curmudgeonly billionaire, and he's tied to GC's
most rapidly growing family--the Chancellors.
record hunter
Why, sure, Niki.
Rthrquiet
>
Insta-connections don't count, or count for comparatively little, in
the context of which I'm speaking. There's no comparing a new
"billionaire" with a billionaire-with-30-years-in-GC, as if there's
some "billionaire slot" that needs to be filled.
My point is that the viewers that respond to Victor Newman don't
respond to him (for the most part) because he's a "billionaire
businessman," they respond to him because he's Victor Newman and
they've known him for 30 years. But instead of getting that, TPTB come
up with a new "billionaire businessman" and throw him into the mix
(and invent insta-connections, possibly, such as the ones you
describe) as though "billionaire businessman" is the key factor. It's
astonishing to me how consistently they can zero-in on the totally
wrong aspect of things. Frightening, really.
As for the possible connection to the Chancellor family, well, they've
rewritten that whole thing often enough now, I wonder how many viewers
take it seriously. So maybe this new character will be Katherine's
progeny--this week. Next week, if the character doesn't work out or
Hogan gets another Big Idea, that whole thing could be rewritten and
he's not Katherine's long-lost son anymore. And I think they've done
the switcheroo often enough now--defying plausibility a good bit of
the time, and rewriting back story pretty freely when it suited them--
that the majority of viewers probably have it in the back of their
minds that very little is permanent in the way of Chancellor family
connections.
If they want to bring on Katherine's son (this week's version), fine,
do it, that's legitimate, or as legitimate as anything on this show is
anymore. But don't insult long-time viewers by conveniently making him
a billionaire businessman just as Victor is leaving and basically
painting "Victor's replacement" across his forehead. Have a little
creative courage and invent somebody unique and interesting--the way
Victor himself was, once upon a time--instead of trying to pass
somebody else off as nuVictorButWe'reNotCallingHimVictor.
Michael
Tony Cianfaglione
I also heard a rumour that Tucker was the reason for Nikki's 7 lost
weeks. we were supposed to learn she was hit by Ashley and Tucker was the
one who found her and nursed her back to health so therein may lie Nikki's
new love interest.
Shirl
> I do have to roll my eyes at the lameness of TPTB. So, exit Victor,
> enter a "new billionaire businessman" with little real connection to
> Genoa City, and certainly no history, and one is supposed to replace
> the other, as though "billionaire businessman" is an interchangeable
> commodity? If one leaves, just bring in another?
>
> It doesn't work that way.
>
> It's not a newsflash that TPTB these days don't "get" soaps, but I
> continue to be astonished at the crude and obvious ways in which they
> don't "get" them. Before Susan Lucci agreed to be part of the new,
> West Coast-based All My Children, TPTB at ABC were planning to hire
> another "diva" to join the cast--as though any old diva would do, and
> you could just replace Erica Kane with some other high-profile soap
> actress and presto! problem solved. As if!
Michael, I'm completely convinced that what they're doing (not only
Y&R, but soaps in general) has more to do with themselves and some
plan we are not aware of than with anything even remotely connected
with viewers! *IF* viewers, or traditional soap opera storytelling,
were being considered, there is simply NO WAY knowledgeable industry
people, in all seriousness, would make these horrific decisions, one
after the other, that are SO detrimental to the shows. Each one is yet
another nail in the coffins. The storytelling is atrociously bad, the
characters are unlikeable, illogical and dark, and they're killing off
and/or squeezing out *core* characters that are the only remaining
foundation upon which these shows are dangling.
There's *something* in the works -- hard to imagine THAT many people
inside with significant history in the genre going along with all
these decisions that are SO OBVIOUSLY bad for the show(s) without
*some* other goal in mind. And there is NO WAY that goal could
*possibly* have anything to do with good storytelling with well-
written characters and/or pleasing soap opera viewers. The goal,
particularly with the last few years of decision making in mind, HAS
to be something completely different! That's the only explanation that
makes any sense.
Shirl
Shirl
Arrrrrrrgh.
As Michael said, it just doesn't work that way **if** the goal is
truly pleasing, compelling, or engaging viewers. I'm no longer
convinced it is.
Shirl
Niki
Very well said. It's all so convoluted now and extremely tedious keeping
up with the rewriting. Where's the consistency?
--
Niki
Shirl
> As for the possible connection to the Chancellor family, well, they've
> rewritten that whole thing often enough now, I wonder how many viewers
> take it seriously. So maybe this new character will be Katherine's
> progeny--this week. Next week, if the character doesn't work out or
> Hogan gets another Big Idea, that whole thing could be rewritten and
> he's not Katherine's long-lost son anymore. And I think they've done
> the switcheroo often enough now--defying plausibility a good bit of
> the time, and rewriting back story pretty freely when it suited them--
> that the majority of viewers probably have it in the back of their
> minds that very little is permanent in the way of Chancellor family
> connections.
And that HAS been the concern those of us who have been SO AGAINST
undoing and rewriting history have expressed time and time again.
Those switcheroos are not only ridiculously unbelievable most of the
time, they also undermine the credibility of the storytellers -- once
viewers see that TPTB will undo and rewrite MAJOR history that
everyone was glued to their seats through, there is simply NO WAY
they're going to be as engaged or emotionally invested in the stories
being told TODAY because they *know* that in the blink of an eye,
*today's stories* will be undone and rewritten, too.
But as said in another post, there is no way THEY don't know this. Why
they continue to perpetuate strategies that OBVIOUSLY turn **off**
viewers instead of solidify their loyalty is the mystery, IMO. Only
explanation that makes any sense is that the more viewers they turn
OFF now, the less that will be pi**ed off when the final plug is
pulled. In the meantime, they're having all kinds of fun making all
the *wrong* decisions, jerking the viewers they have left around, and
publicly patting themselves on the back. Whatever!
Shirl
Cory
Yeah, but the spoiler space was THERE! YOU chose to take it out.
--- Cory
record hunter
I went back and looked. I didn't remove anything.
This is *exactly* what is on the page:
"scroll down...
According to daytimeconfidential.com someone named William Russ is
going
to play Tucker, the new billionaire businessman on Y&R.
Darn...I was so hoping they'd get Ron Raines for the role."
There was no space between "down..." and "According." None. Zero.
Zilch.
And anyway, it was hardly a spoiler. What, actually, was spoiled?
Primula X
@r31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, record...@gmail.com says...
> This is *exactly* what is on the page:
>
> "scroll down...
>
> According to daytimeconfidential.com someone named William Russ is
> going
> to play Tucker, the new billionaire businessman on Y&R.
>
> Darn...I was so hoping they'd get Ron Raines for the role."
>
> There was no space between "down..." and "According." None. Zero.
> Zilch.
>
>
space.
P.
santarosie
the ratings...ahead of GH, OLTL and Days? Wow. I quit watching that
show a long time ago. Talk about bad storylines...geez.
>
> --Begin quoted text--
> Compiled from a list of several sources, here are the Nielsen ratings
> for the week of October 5-9, 2009 for all the daytime and primetime
> television soap operas.
>
> GREY'S ANATOMY (13.8 million, 8.9/14)
> THE GOOD WIFE (13.4 million, 8.7/15)
> DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES (13.1 million, 8.0/12)
> PRIVATE PRACTICE (9.5 million, 6.3/11)
> BROTHERS & SISTERS (9 million, 5.9/10)
> FLASHFORWARD (9 million, 5.9/9)
> GLEE (7.3 million, 4.5/7)
> MANANA ES PARA SIEMPRE (7.3 million) - Monday finale + more viewers
> than NBC & CW
> HEROES (5.4 million, 3.3/5)
> EASTWICK (5.3 million, 3.7/6)
> ***THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS (4.95 million, 3.6/12) - daytime airing
> only
> THE VAMPIRE DIARIES (3.5 million, 2.1/3)
> THE BOLD AND THE BEAUTIFUL (3.25 million, 2.3/8)
> FLASHFORWARD (3.1 million, 2.2/4)) - Friday repeat
> DAYS OF OUR LIVES (3.0 million, 2.2/8) - daytime airing only
> GENERAL HOSPITAL (2.51 million, 1.9/6) - daytime airing only
> ALL MY CHILDREN (2.47 million, 1.7/6) - daytime airing only
> AS THE WORLD TURNS (2.42 million, 1.8/6)
> ONE LIFE TO LIVE (2.40 million, 1.9/6) - daytime airing only
> ONE TREE HILL (2.2 million, 1.5/2)
> 90210 (2.2 million, 1.6/3)
> GOSSIP GIRL (2.1 million, 1.5/2)
> MELROSE PLACE (1.6 million, 1.2/2)
> MELROSE PLACE (1.1 million, 0.8/1) - Wednesday repeat
> LINCOLN HEIGHTS (0.86 million)
> GREEK (0.74 million)
>
> In other ratings news, LET'S MAKE A DEAL averaged a 1.5 household
> rating for its first half hour (0.6 in W18-49) and 1.6 in the second
> (0.7 in W18-49) which was below all the daytime soaps. If historical
> trends hold this does not bold well for the game show. The profit
> margin may be better than a soap with a similar or slightly better
> ratings, but the loyalty of the audience is not the same and these
> shows tends to dive fast.
> --End quoted text--
record hunter
> In article <1b49578f-85d6-4a74-bae9-86d7771358e6
>
> > "scroll down...
>
> > According to daytimeconfidential.com someone named William Russ is
> > going
> > to play Tucker, the new billionaire businessman on Y&R.
>
> > Darn...I was so hoping they'd get Ron Raines for the role."
>
> > There was no space between "down..." and "According." None. Zero.
> > Zilch.
>
> Huh? I wrote the original message and there was a whole page worth of
> space.
>
> P.
This happens frequently with one of the Danas. Since I don't create
spoilers, I don't know what causes one warning to go through and
another to create no space. But I had no idea I was reading a spoiler.
I clicked on a thread that said "Y&R- He's At It AGAIN!"
In any case, it wasn't a true spoiler. There's a difference between,
say, blurting out that Victor is going to get Colleen's heart, and the
fact that an actor has been hired to play a part at some point in the
future. And if you want to say, well, it's a casting spoiler, well,
it's not like saying "Kimberlin Brown Signs 3-year contract with Y&R."
Nothing was spoiled. An actor has been hired to play a part.
queenie
<record...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 19, 12:15 pm, "Cheri" <cher...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>
>> I love Mad Men for the nostalgia, furniture, clothes, expressions, etc., but
>> the people leave a lot to be desired IMO. I'm beginning to despise Don. The
>> only one I really like is the gay man that was fired for not accepting
>> advances from a client. :-)
I love Mad Men for the same reasons
>
>I'm starting to hate Don, too.
I'm kind of feeling the way his wife must be feeling. Who is this
guy? I thought I knew him.
> I hope Sal doesn't kill himself.
>Stonewall is still six years away, though, so...
I have a feeling Sal will be back.
Niki
> And if you want to say, well, it's a casting spoiler, well,
> it's not like saying "Kimberlin Brown Signs 3-year contract with Y&R."
> Nothing was spoiled. An actor has been hired to play a part.
It's a spoiler in the fact that her coming back is going to spoil the
show. No worse than it already is IMHO. Adam is her only male.
--
Niki
record hunter
Oh, that isn't a real spoiler. I was just making up an example of
something that would be spoilerific. I have never read anywhere that
KB is coming back in any role.
Niki
> On Oct 21, 10:13 am, Niki <nikib...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> record hunter wrote:
>>> And if you want to say, well, it's a casting spoiler, well,
>>> it's not like saying "Kimberlin Brown Signs 3-year contract with Y&R."
>>> Nothing was spoiled. An actor has been hired to play a part.
>> It's a spoiler in the fact that her coming back is going to spoil the
>> show. No worse than it already is IMHO. Adam is her only male.
> Oh, that isn't a real spoiler. I was just making up an example of
> something that would be spoilerific. I have never read anywhere that
> KB is coming back in any role.
I hope she doesn't. I don't see how that would do anything good for Y&R
at this point.
--
Niki
record hunter
I couldn't agree more. She was one of the reasons I found the show so
unpalatable years ago. I know a soap has to have a villain, but I just
couldn't take her.
queenie
<record...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Oct 19, 10:38 am, Shirl <shinn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Niki:
>>
>> > Wow. That's one way to put it. Interesting concept. I know viewership
>> > has dropped in recent years. The stories suck and the writing is so bad
>> > so I can understand why people aren't watching. It's not engaging like
>> > it once was.
>>
>> While there have always been complaints, I don't think I've *ever*
>> seen THIS much of a consensus that the storytelling itself sucks!
>>
>> As predicted when people were saying, "Yeah, but the acting continues
>> to be excellent", or "Yeah, but the individual scenes are
>> compelling!", they can't rely on great acting, individual scenes or
>> even individual episodes to take up the slack for poor quality, long-
>> term writing indefinitely. Eventually, it catches up with them and
>> viewers realize that good acting or not, they're watching SLOP, and it
>> *isn't* changing for the better, as time passes.
>
>For me, it ended with the Deacon storyline. There was just no reason
>to visit that excrescence upon us. And because storylines are so
>interconnected these days, that means I'm not keeping up with a lot of
>characters I actually like, or at least *used* to like.
I liked the guy (I don't feel like looking it up) who plays Deacon but
the storyline--the writing was so bad, I could barely watch. Are they
about to castrate Deacon again...turn him into some sniveling weak
man?
>
>Then, when I found out about Victor and Colleen, there became no
>reason to watch at all. I probably watched an episode and a half last
>week. I may watch today, as Ashley and Victor are going to be on, and
>I am curious as to how they're going to write him out. It's the kind
>of thing that might show up in flashbacks for months to come, so I
>figure I'll watch the original version.
The only problem so far with Victor getting his comeuppance is that
Ashley is the one dishing it out to him.
Niki
> On Oct 21, 11:51 am, Niki <nikib...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I hope she doesn't. I don't see how that would do anything good for Y&R
>> at this point.
> I couldn't agree more. She was one of the reasons I found the show so
> unpalatable years ago. I know a soap has to have a villain, but I just
> couldn't take her.
The whole show seems full of villains now. Maybe not on the level of Ada
m ridiculous, but everyone is out for themselves in a seemingly bad way
that's not cohesive.
--
Niki