War of Honor comes with extra ebooks
Tom
contains these books
David Weber
Honor Harrington series
On Basilisk Station
The Honor of the Queen
The Short Victorious War
Field of Dishonor
Flag in Exile
Honor Among Enemies
In Enemy Hands
Echoes of Honor
Ashes of Victory
War of Honor
More Than Honor
Worlds of Honor
Changer of Worlds
Plus these
David Drake
With the Lightnings
Lt. Leary, Commanding
An Oblique Approach
In the Heart of Darkness
Destiny's Shield
Fortune's Stroke
The Tide of Victory
Eric Flint
1632
1633
An Oblique Approach
In the Heart of Darkness
Destiny's Shield
Fortune's Stroke
The Tide of Victory
Rats, Bats and Vats
The Shadow of the Lion
Dave Freer
Rats, Bats and Vats
The Shadow of the Lion
Mercedes Lackey
The Shadow of the Lion
Keith Laumer
Retief!
Larry Niven
Fallen Angels
Jerry Pournelle
Fallen Angels
The Prince
John Ringo
A Hymn Before Battle
Gust Front
When the Devil Dances
March Upcountry
March to the Sea
March to the Stars
James H. Schmitz
Telzey Amberdon
TnT: Telzey and Trigger
Trigger and Friends
The Hub
Agent of Vega
What an astounding deal.
Thomas Yan
tmon...@mindspring.com (Tom) writes:
> The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
> contains these books
>
-huge list snipped-
>
> What an astounding deal.
Yup, I'm very happy about it. Plus, the CD says "This disk and its
contents may be copied and shared but NOT sold". Wow!
As for _War of Honor_, I enjoyed it, but there was a nagging question.
***spoilers***
Perhaps it was because I had just re/read the annotated Special
Edition of _A Fire Upon the Deep_, where "Blueshell had a humor fit at
Pham's faith in public key encryption". Anyway, I couldn't help
wondering: why is their crypto so bad? Wouldn't they have digital
signatures or something?
If there was in fact no good crypto, then I would have liked someone
exulting or moaning about that fact.
Louann Miller
<nyr...@io.com.invalid> wrote:
>Rich Clark wrote:
>> This is a bold move on Baen's part. An expensive hardcover that includes a
>> complete e-copy of itself, with encouragement to copy and give it away? Plus
>> the entire series of books that preceded it? Plus several other novels that
>> are currently only available in hardcover? Gutsy strategy.
>
> Baen think's it's a profitable strategy.
> You can read about it here:
>
> http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm
> http://www.baen.com/library/palaver7.htm
It was right here (here being r.a.sf.w) that we had the flame war that
led to Eric Flint proposing the Free Library to Baen in the first
place. And more power to 'em.
--
Mozilla 1.1 is free and has a built in pop-up killer.
Just uncheck "open unrequested windows" under "advanced" under preferences.
http://www.mozilla.org
Joel Rosenberg
Yup. It clearly works, for some writers, at least some of the time,
at least when published by Baen.
Now folks have got to try to figure out what the necessary and
sufficient factors are -- if just one more publisher can make it work,
they'll pretty much all have to try to, one way or another.
--
The adjuration to be "normal" seems shockingly repellent to me; I see neither
hope nor comfort in sinking to that low level. I think it is ignorance that
makes people think of abnormality only with horror and allows them to remain
undismayed at the proximity of "normal" to average and mediocre. For surely
anyone who achieves anything is, essentially, abnormal.
-- Dr. Karl Menninger, "The Human Mind", 1930
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Alan Barclay
Nyrath the nearly wise <nyr...@io.com.invalid> wrote:
>Rich Clark wrote:
>> This is a bold move on Baen's part. An expensive hardcover that includes a
>> complete e-copy of itself, with encouragement to copy and give it away? Plus
>> the entire series of books that preceded it? Plus several other novels that
>> are currently only available in hardcover? Gutsy strategy.
>
> Baen think's it's a profitable strategy.
> You can read about it here:
I think they might well be right. I know I'm going to be buying it,
which will make the first Weber book I've bought.
pan
"Tom" <tmon...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:927eb8b6.0210...@posting.google.com...
> The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
> contains these books
>
Price?
What format are the files? If ascii and searchable by
textual analysis tools I'll buy this without any further
inducements.
Pan
John Duncan Yoyo
}
} "Tom" <tmon...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
} news:927eb8b6.0210...@posting.google.com...
} > The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
} > contains these books
} >
} [deleted library catalog of included titles]
}
} Price?
$18.20 on Amazon.
------------------------
John Duncan Yoyo
Dave Conrad
> On Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:23:47 -0700, "pan" <p...@syix.com> wrote:
>
> }
> } "Tom" <tmon...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> } news:927eb8b6.0210...@posting.google.com...
> } > The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
> } > contains these books
> } >
> } [deleted library catalog of included titles]
> }
> } Price?
Does anyone know if the SFBC edition includes the CD?
--
Dave C. (Plug & Play)
iN*T*x
"To break the rules is to break the spell" - C. Lasch
Member, Team AWWAJALOOM (http://www.theferrett.com/theteam.htm)
Eric Flint
"Louann Miller" <loua...@yahoo.net> wrote in message
news:7l3spu86l5i7dachg...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 16:18:50 -0400, Nyrath the nearly wise
> It was right here (here being r.a.sf.w) that we had the flame war that
> led to Eric Flint proposing the Free Library to Baen in the first
> place.
That is quite correct. It was as a direct result of the discussion here
that I called Jim Baen and, after we discussed the issue, the Free Library
got created.
I have to say that what I find most absurd about the continuing insistence
on the part of some people that the approach which I take will lead to sure
disaster is that they ignore the ongoing experience of Webscriptions, which
has been one of the few successful e-publishing enterprises going. People
get fixated on flashy stuff like the Free Library and, now, the CD which
goes along with Dave Weber's WAR OF HONOR. That's because of the totemic
magic power of the word "free."
But it's silly, really. The books which are sold through Webscriptions,
month after month, come in _exactly_ the same format as the ones in the
Library: i.e., they are completely unencrypted. So somebody has to pay an
average of less than $4 apiece for them. Big deal. Does anyone really
think a thief is deterred by the prospect of having to invest a bit of
capital? ("Sorry, guys. We can't rob that bank because first we'd have to
spend our OWN money buying bullets for the guns and filling up our getaway
car with gas. Can't be done. S'against the Thieves Code.")
It is SO goddam silly. That's _already_ how 99% of online copyright
infringement takes place. It doesn't happen because some genius hacker
figures out how to break the -- try to keep a straight face -- Utterly
Unbreakable Latest Corporate Code. It happens when some goofball goes out
and buys a _paper_ copy of the book -- for more money than a Webscriptions
title -- and then scans it. (And theoretically proof-reads the resulting
mess carefully. Ha.)
Webscriptions bypasses the whole thing. And at the same time pays more in
the way of royalties to the authors than any other e-publishing enterprise I
know of. (Leaving aside what Stephen King might be able to pull off.)
The reason it works is because Webscriptions titles are: a) cheap; b)
user-friendly. So there's simply no incentive for anyone to engage in
copyright infringement except pure and simple goofballs. And those ye shall
always have with you, but by themselves they're nothing more than (at most)
a petty nuisance.
The other gigantic advantage to the Baen approach, of course -- and the
reason I personally took the stance I did -- is that is does not require
trampling all over the Bill of Rights and genuflecting at the altar of
corporate welfare.
Eric
Joel Rosenberg
> "Louann Miller" <loua...@yahoo.net> wrote in message
> news:7l3spu86l5i7dachg...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 16:18:50 -0400, Nyrath the nearly wise
>
>> It was right here (here being r.a.sf.w) that we had the flame war that
>> led to Eric Flint proposing the Free Library to Baen in the first
>> place.
>
> That is quite correct. It was as a direct result of the discussion here
> that I called Jim Baen and, after we discussed the issue, the Free Library
> got created.
>
> I have to say that what I find most absurd about the continuing insistence
> on the part of some people that the approach which I take will lead to sure
> disaster is that they ignore the ongoing experience of Webscriptions, which
> has been one of the few successful e-publishing enterprises going. People
> get fixated on flashy stuff like the Free Library and, now, the CD which
> goes along with Dave Weber's WAR OF HONOR. That's because of the totemic
> magic power of the word "free."
What I find most absurd about that continuing insistence is that it
flies in the face of the experience of the folks who have tried it.
Either you -- and a bunch of other folks -- are lying through your
teeth and have engaged in a large, complex, pointless, but effective
conspiracy to conceal the failures (which I don't believe; I include
it for the sake of completeness), or the BFL and Webscriptions program
have worked, for any reasonable values of "worked": writers aren't
losing money at all; readers have easier and cheaper access to at
least some of the work.
The only real questions, it seems to me, are why they've worked, and
whether and how the successes can be replicated, and I do wish that
other publishers were experimenting more on trying to replicate the
successes. If -- and it's still an if -- the
loss-of-income-from-piracy problem either doesn't exist at all, or in
a global sense can be slammed to the ground and have the wind knocked
out of it via the judo of free (and lowcost) e-publishing, that means
that it's not necessary to try to solve it either by technical means
(and I think that Bruce Schneier has the right of it on the flaw in
the "trusted user"/copy protection concept) or by brute force of law.
--
When a student asks for a second time if you have read his book report, he did not read the book.
-- Rominger's Rules for Teachers n°1
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Andrew Wheeler
>
> John Duncan Yoyo wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:23:47 -0700, "pan" <p...@syix.com> wrote:
> >
> > }
> > } "Tom" <tmon...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > } news:927eb8b6.0210...@posting.google.com...
> > } > The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
> > } > contains these books
> > } >
> > } [deleted library catalog of included titles]
> > }
> > } Price?
>
> Does anyone know if the SFBC edition includes the CD?
It does not.
--
Andrew Wheeler
--
Far beyond the moon and stars,
Twenty light-years south of Mars
Spins the gentle Bunny Planet,
And the Bunny Queen is Janet.
anon...@remailer.hastio.org
>On Fri, 04 Oct 2002 16:18:50 -0400, Nyrath the nearly wise
><nyr...@io.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Rich Clark wrote:
>>> This is a bold move on Baen's part. An expensive hardcover that includes a
>>> complete e-copy of itself, with encouragement to copy and give it away? Plus
>>> the entire series of books that preceded it? Plus several other novels that
>>> are currently only available in hardcover? Gutsy strategy.
>>
>> Baen think's it's a profitable strategy.
>> You can read about it here:
>>
>> http://www.baen.com/library/palaver6.htm
>> http://www.baen.com/library/palaver7.htm
>
>It was right here (here being r.a.sf.w) that we had the flame war that
>led to Eric Flint proposing the Free Library to Baen in the first
>place. And more power to 'em.
Indeed it was here, two years ago, on the first "Copyright Funeral
Thread" in 1999 we saw Flint bitchslapping Eric Walker's "Eternal
Copyright" fantasies and S M Stirling's Nazi-wank fantasies and
ideas for punishing copyright "offenders". Amazingly enough it
looks as if some of Stirling's loonier ideas for copyright enforcement
are going to make their way onto the Statute Books. But at least
Stirling's proposals for prison rape have/are not (yet) being
considered. Oh well, some small hope left for a sane world ...
Incidentally, I commend,in the strongest possible terms, Baen for
publishing the hardback with CD but why limit it to first 100,000
books sold ? Just a minor quibble. Though if they manage to sell
that number it would be absolutely remarkable. And what one would
readily expect is for this to translate into increased hard copy
sales of the books on the CD:
1- Reader peruses the books on the CD
2- Reader likes some of the books on CD
3- Reader REALLY likes one or two books and wants to read them
4- Reader is unlikely to want to slog through the book using a VDU
5- Reader therefore buys hardcopy of book ---> increased sales
It just goes to show that a copyright-free internet need not lead
to proposed horror scenarios of authors standing in queues with
begging bowls in hand at soup kitchens. I do admit, though, that
this model will be in serious trouble when we start having display
technology with resolutions and convenience rivalling paper. But
that is at least 5-10 years distant. Even then there will be answers
to this "problem". But trying to put the copyright genie back in the
bottle will not be one of those answers.
In any case Eric Flint, IMHO - by his actions - will earn himself a
place in publishing history for his pioneering work and ideas in
setting up the Baen Free Library. This'll mean that as consumers
we'll be able to get more value out of our money when we pay for a
book/ebook. And why should this not be the case? It is so for nearly
every industry you care to mention that employs technology.
Why should publishers exempt themselves from this pattern ?
The Copyright Funeral Man
J.B. Moreno
> "Tom" <tmon...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> > The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
> > contains these books
> >
> [deleted library catalog of included titles]
>
> Price?
The CD comes as part of the hardcover book, the HC is priced normally.
> What format are the files? If ascii and searchable by
> textual analysis tools I'll buy this without any further
> inducements.
I don't have the CD, but given Baen's regular handling of ebooks (check
out <http://www.webscriptions.net/>), I imagine it includes the books in
3 or 4 different formats, including HTML and RTF.
--
JBM
"Your depression will be added to my own" -- Marvin of Borg
Joel Rosenberg
Yup. Bits are cheap, and a lot of them fit on a CD.
--
Some men are all right in their place -- if they only the knew the right places!
-- Mae West
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Dan Neely
> What format are the files? If ascii and searchable by
> textual analysis tools I'll buy this without any further
> inducements.
the same formats as the free library uses: .html .rtf .lit .prc .rb
Peter Meilinger
>The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
>contains these books
>March to the Stars
When's War of Honor come out? I thought March To The Stars
wasn't coming out until January? I still haven't decided if I
want to buy a webscription to it yet.
>What an astounding deal.
Yeah. If I were still reading the Honor Harrington series, I'd
pick up this hardcover in a heartbeat. It's probably worth it
just to get the books on CD, but I know I'd never get around to
reading them. My pile of physical books to be read is so much
more noticeable than files on my computer.
Pete
Anonymous User
>Dave Conrad wrote:
>>
>> John Duncan Yoyo wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:23:47 -0700, "pan" <p...@syix.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > }
>> > } "Tom" <tmon...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> > } news:927eb8b6.0210...@posting.google.com...
>> > } > The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
>> > } > contains these books
>> > } >
>> > } [deleted library catalog of included titles]
>> > }
>> > } Price?
>>
>> Does anyone know if the SFBC edition includes the CD?
>
>It does not.
>
Why not ?
>--
>Andrew Wheeler
The Copyright Funeral Man
Joel Rosenberg
Probably because the SFBC hasn't been persuaded of the value of
including CDs.
--
World tensions have, if anything, increased in the quarter century since
H.G. Wells uttered his glum warning: "There is no more evil thing on
earth than race prejudice, none at all. I write deliberately -- it is
the worst single thing in life now. It justifies and holds together more
baseness, cruelty and abomination than any other sort of error in the world."
-- Sydney Harris
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
J.B. Moreno
-snip utterly sensible stuff-
> Webscriptions bypasses the whole thing. And at the same time pays more in
> the way of royalties to the authors than any other e-publishing enterprise I
> know of. (Leaving aside what Stephen King might be able to pull off.)
Lois says that Fictionwise pays more (percentage wise at least, absolute
values haven't been mentioned AFAIK).
J.B. Moreno
> Incidentally, I commend,in the strongest possible terms, Baen for
> publishing the hardback with CD but why limit it to first 100,000
> books sold ?
It's called "marketing" -- the more books sold in a shorter period of
time, the better.
David Dyer-Bennet
> The reason it works is because Webscriptions titles are: a) cheap; b)
> user-friendly. So there's simply no incentive for anyone to engage in
> copyright infringement except pure and simple goofballs. And those ye shall
> always have with you, but by themselves they're nothing more than (at most)
> a petty nuisance.
This is the same argument Ted Nelson made for Project Xanadu, too --
that enforcement would be a non-issue because accessing the official
for-pay copy was so convenient and so cheap that there was no
particular incentive to cheat. And that most people wouldn't mind
paying *reasonable* fees anyway.
> The other gigantic advantage to the Baen approach, of course -- and the
> reason I personally took the stance I did -- is that is does not require
> trampling all over the Bill of Rights and genuflecting at the altar of
> corporate welfare.
Or inventing a whole *new* intellectual property regime and getting
the rest of the world to buy into it. That's at least not inherently
bad, merely impossible.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net / http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info
David Bilek
><anon...@remailer.hastio.org> wrote:
>
>> Incidentally, I commend,in the strongest possible terms, Baen for
>> publishing the hardback with CD but why limit it to first 100,000
>> books sold ?
>
>It's called "marketing" -- the more books sold in a shorter period of
>time, the better.
Does Weber sell over 100,000 copies in hardcover? Isn't that rather a
lot? I knew he was a good seller for Baen but I didn't realize he was
*that* good a seller.
-David
Eric Flint
"Joel Rosenberg" <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote in message
news:m2smzka...@joelr.ellegon.com...
> "Eric Flint" <efl...@home.com> writes:
>
> What I find most absurd about that continuing insistence is that it
> flies in the face of the experience of the folks who have tried it.
> Either you -- and a bunch of other folks -- are lying through your
> teeth and have engaged in a large, complex, pointless, but effective
> conspiracy to conceal the failures (which I don't believe; I include
> it for the sake of completeness), or the BFL and Webscriptions program
> have worked, for any reasonable values of "worked": writers aren't
> losing money at all; readers have easier and cheaper access to at
> least some of the work.
Heh. I wasn't involved in the discussion myself, but I've been told by
someone who was that I was apparently accused of lying about my figures on
this in the course of a discussion which took place in SFWA's private
discussion group. Since I've been having an extensive -- and very cordial,
I should add -- email discussion with Andrew Burt, the person who is heading
up SFWA's anti-piracy effort, I sent Andrew an email immediately offering to
make available copies of my royalty statements to SFWA so they could check
the figures for themselves. I also volunteered to send them a copy of my
income tax returns to verify that the figures Baen reports to me are indeed
the ones which I then report to the IRS.
It's just ludicrous, Joel. Apparently some people think I am possessed by a
demon, to the point where I'm inflating my income figures to the IRS so that
I can pay more taxes just so that I can win an argument with them. This is,
ah, what you can safely call Suffering From Delusions Of Grandeur.
Facts are facts, whether people like them or not. And it is just a fact --
which I have offered to document for SFWA -- that I earn more income from
Webscriptions in one year than most authors have seen from electronic rights
from all other sources over the past decade.
> The only real questions, it seems to me, are why they've worked, and
> whether and how the successes can be replicated, and I do wish that
> other publishers were experimenting more on trying to replicate the
> successes.
So do I. That would settle what is, to me, the only remaining valid and
legitimate question about whether the Baen methods are generally applicable.
The argument has been advanced that Baen's methods only work because of what
you might call the "man-bites-dog" effect. I.e., they work because they are
dramatically unusual. But if _everyone_ started doing it, so the argument
goes, the end result would be to beggar everyone.
I don't agree with the argument, myself. In fact, I think it's flimsy.
But... it's impossible to disprove, since you can't disprove an assertion
which is based on the absence of facts. We simply can't know until enough
other publishers start doing something roughly equivalent to what Baen is
doing.
Eric
Joel Rosenberg
I can think of some other, not ludicrous explanations -- that Baen is
a niche publisher with an audience that willing to do things that
isn't true for the overall audience. (I'm not saying I believe that
-- I dunno, either way -- although I certainly am saying I'd like to
have it tested.)
>
> I don't agree with the argument, myself. In fact, I think it's flimsy.
> But... it's impossible to disprove, since you can't disprove an assertion
> which is based on the absence of facts. We simply can't know until enough
> other publishers start doing something roughly equivalent to what Baen is
> doing.
Amen. And the sooner the better. If this will work more generally,
everybody wins; if it won't, we can still fall back on Plan B -- we
just need a better Plan B than anybody has come up with so far.
>
--
In a hierarchy every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence ...
in time every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent
to carry out its duties ... Work is accomplished by those employees who
have not yet reached their level of incompetence.
-- Dr. Laurence J. Peter, "The Peter Principle"
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Eric Flint
"J.B. Moreno" <pl...@newsreaders.com> wrote in message
news:1fjl7xi.zszvs9135dbowN%pl...@newsreaders.com...
> Eric Flint <efl...@home.com> wrote:
>
> -snip utterly sensible stuff-
>
> > Webscriptions bypasses the whole thing. And at the same time pays more
in
> > the way of royalties to the authors than any other e-publishing
enterprise I
> > know of. (Leaving aside what Stephen King might be able to pull off.)
>
> Lois says that Fictionwise pays more (percentage wise at least, absolute
> values haven't been mentioned AFAIK).
Before we get into an argument about apples and oranges, we first have to
make the distinction between them. I didn't see Lois Tilton's post where
she made that assertion. Is she talking about royalty _rates_ or royalties
themselves? (Which I think of as actual income, i.e., money.)
She may indeed be correct that Fictionwise pays higher royalty _rates_ than
Baen's Webscriptions. I wouldn't be surprised at all, in fact. But that is
_not_ the same thing I was talking about. If you look at the sentence of
mine which you cited above, you will see that the phrase I used was "pays
more in the way of royalties to the authors". That is, I was speaking of
the actual income which authors derived from it.
The arithmetic is not complicated, after all. Is 40% better than 20%?
Well... it depends. 40% of WHAT? Versus 20% of WHAT?
40% of $100 is forty dollars. 20% of $1000 is two hundred dollars. Which
would you rather have? I'll take the $200, thank you. My mortgage needs to
be paid in dollars, not rates.
I am not particularly impressed with the very high royalty rates which are
reported for some electronic outlets. Big deal. For a variety of reasons,
those outlets are really selling practically nothing. So who cares if
you're getting a high percentage of zilch?
If Tilton is trying to claim that other electronic outlets are paying more
_money_ (in the way of royalties) than Baen's Webscriptions, then I have to
say that I am highly dubious. Some of my titles are also being sold through
Fictionwise. I have no quarrel with Fictionwise, and I'm always happy to
see them pick up a title of mine. But if they're paying me anything
remotely close to the thousands of dollars I earn every year from
Webscriptions, it's news to me. (Granted, Fictionwise only sells some of my
books whereas Webscriptions carries all of them. But the difference in
income from the two sources can't be accounted for by that alone.)
I wouldn't want to leave this with an implied swipe at Fictionwise, by the
way. I would expect Baen to pay much more in the way of royalties than
Fictionwise, because it's just a fact that Baen enjoys an enormous advantage
over any purely electronic outlet, even one which like Fictionwise does not
encrypt its titles. Baen is a paper publisher -- one of the major ones in
SF -- who can therefore piggyback its electronic sales on top of its
existing and established paper distribution.
Advertise its electronic product? Baen automatically advertises its product
in every bookstore in the country every day, in tens of thousands of copies
which are on the shelves. Fictionwise doesn't have anything remotely
comparable. It's dependent, basically, on electronic word-of-mouth on the
internet. Which, of course, Baen _also_ gets -- and a lot more of it
because of the discussion site which is part of Baen's web site.
The real question, of course, is why are other major paper publishing houses
still refusing to do something equivalent to Baen. I don't know, myself.
My suspicion is that they've allowed themselves to get scared off by
boogeymen.
Eric
J.B. Moreno
I don't know -- but even if he never sells more than 5000 in HC, it
still makes sense to say the same thing, because it gives the impression
that there's a limited time to act.
Eric Flint
> <anon...@remailer.hastio.org> wrote:
>
> > Incidentally, I commend,in the strongest possible terms, Baen for
> > publishing the hardback with CD but why limit it to first 100,000
> > books sold ?
>
> It's called "marketing" -- the more books sold in a shorter period of
> time, the better.
I haven't discussed it with Jim Baen, but I imagine his thinking was that he
needed to set _some_ kind of figure -- you have to send in a specific order
to the printer, after all -- and so he picked one which would make WAR OF
HONOR the best-selling title (in hardcover) his publishing house has ever
had. 100,000 hardcovers is a _lot_ of hardcovers. Except for the
well-publisized but rare "blockbusters" (like Harry Potter, etc), any book
which sells 100K copies in hardcover is a giant seller.
Eric
J.B. Moreno
> "J.B. Moreno" <pl...@newsreaders.com> wrote in message
> > Eric Flint <efl...@home.com> wrote:
>
> > > Webscriptions bypasses the whole thing. And at the same time pays
> > > more in the way of royalties to the authors than any other
> > > e-publishing enterprise I know of. (Leaving aside what Stephen King
> > > might be able to pull off.)
> >
> > Lois says that Fictionwise pays more (percentage wise at least, absolute
> > values haven't been mentioned AFAIK).
>
> Before we get into an argument about apples and oranges, we first have to
> make the distinction between them. I didn't see Lois Tilton's post where
> she made that assertion. Is she talking about royalty _rates_ or royalties
> themselves? (Which I think of as actual income, i.e., money.)
Bujold, not Tilton -- af far as I know Tilton isn't a Baen author.
And yes, I know's there's a difference, and as I said, it was for rates,
with nothing certain about royalties themselves yet (I believe she
thought it'd be at least a year before it was clear as to which resulted
in more cash in the bank).
The post was made on the bar, and so is probably gone unless someone has
a private archive (likely, but I don't know who).
-snip-
> The real question, of course, is why are other major paper publishing houses
> still refusing to do something equivalent to Baen. I don't know, myself.
> My suspicion is that they've allowed themselves to get scared off by
> boogeymen.
Well, that's my question too and your suspicions match my own -- but I
don't see any way for someone outside of them to change their minds.
Joel Rosenberg
It also makes sense not to write a blank check, either in terms of
money or time. 100,000 copies of a hardcover is a huge amount, but
it's not quite a blank check.
--
Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right
to use the editorial "we".
-- Mark Twain
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
J.B. Moreno
-snip why limit number of books to include a CD-
> It also makes sense not to write a blank check, either in terms of
> money or time. 100,000 copies of a hardcover is a huge amount, but
> it's not quite a blank check.
Right.
Also, if every sale of the book/CD results in a purchase of all of the
books on the CD in paper, then he can always do it for another 100,000.
But if every sale of the book/CD means a lost sale for the books on the
CD, then he doesn't want to be stuck offering the book/cd forever.
David Bilek
>pl...@newsreaders.com (J.B. Moreno) writes:
>
>> David Bilek <dbi...@attbi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> pl...@newsreaders.com (J.B. Moreno) wrote:
>>>
>>> ><anon...@remailer.hastio.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Incidentally, I commend,in the strongest possible terms, Baen for
>>> >> publishing the hardback with CD but why limit it to first 100,000
>>> >> books sold ?
>>> >
>>> >It's called "marketing" -- the more books sold in a shorter period of
>>> >time, the better.
>>>
>>> Does Weber sell over 100,000 copies in hardcover? Isn't that rather a
>>> lot? I knew he was a good seller for Baen but I didn't realize he was
>>> *that* good a seller.
>>
>> I don't know -- but even if he never sells more than 5000 in HC, it
>> still makes sense to say the same thing, because it gives the impression
>> that there's a limited time to act.
>>
>
>It also makes sense not to write a blank check, either in terms of
>money or time. 100,000 copies of a hardcover is a huge amount, but
>it's not quite a blank check.
Ah, right. That makes sense.
I had a bit of a shock trying to wrap my brain around David Weber
selling 100k in hardcover.
Won't someone please think of the trees?
-David
Dan Neely
> In rec.arts.sf.written Tom <tmon...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
> >contains these books
>
> >March to the Stars
>
> When's War of Honor come out? I thought March To The Stars
> wasn't coming out until January? I still haven't decided if I
> want to buy a webscription to it yet.
It's out now, but the CD only contains the 1st half of March. It's the only
incomplete book in the cd.
Brian Palmer
tmon...@mindspring.com (Tom) writes:
> The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
> contains these books
[snip list]
Thanks for the list. I picked this book up in the store yesterday
mainly due to the CD; I was disappointed not to see a list of the CD's
contents anywhere in the book. (Perhaps I simply overlooked it, but
had I not seen this list, I probably would have held off on buying the
book -- a hardcover is a significant fraction of my book-buying
budget).
As for the book, after reading it, I'm pretty pleased. There were many
scenes where all the characters are doing what is "clearly" the best
thing, and the reader knows it is manuevering for the worst possible
outcome. But I never got quite as depressed as when this sort of
thing happens in,say, a Robin Hobb novel; probably because Weber does
not paint a war as being altogether horrible, but rather somewhat
uplifting. And, as people indicated, the politics in this felt much
less one-dimensional than in previous Harrington books.
--
If you want divine justice, die.
-- Nick Seldon
Andrew Wheeler
>
> The real question, of course, is why are other major paper publishing
> houses still refusing to do something equivalent to Baen. I don't know,
> myself. My suspicion is that they've allowed themselves to get scared
> off by boogeymen.
Everybody else major (except DAW) are owned by large corporations, and
so will jump into a program like this (either one -- free ebooks as
advertising or completely unencrypted ebooks) approximately when the
ambient temperature of hell allows figure-skating. (I can just imagine
what the legal departments would say, not to mention corporate
higher-ups in general.)
Now, if DAW does something like this, and it works...and then somebody
like ibooks does it, and it works...then, maybe, the other large SF
publishers will think about allowing a steering committee to look into
the possibility of issuing a report on the feasibility of empaneling a
committee to really, seriously, closely and deeply investigate the idea
for about five years.
Andrew Wheeler
>
> Incidentally, I commend,in the strongest possible terms, Baen for
> publishing the hardback with CD but why limit it to first 100,000
> books sold ? Just a minor quibble. Though if they manage to sell
> that number it would be absolutely remarkable. And what one would
> readily expect is for this to translate into increased hard copy
> sales of the books on the CD:
As far as I know, 100,000 is their first printing. This way, they don't
have to have the additional costs associated with a CD (which are not
horribly expensive, but not cheap -- it could double the manufacturing
cost of a book) on whatever subsequent, smaller (and thus more
expensive) printings that they may need.
That's my guess, anyway.
Andrew Wheeler
He's hit the NYTimes list briefly with his last book or two, so he's got
to be netting over 50,000 and probably over 75,000. 100k is a reasonable
first printing for someone at his level.
As far as I can tell, he's Baen's biggest seller by quite a comfortable margin.
Andrew Wheeler
Because it bugs *you*, that's why.
Actually, mostly because a) it would be a contractual nightmare (we've
never offered most of those books, so we have no right to sell or give
them away to club members) and b) Baen never actually told us they were
doing it -- we just noticed a burst on the bound galley cover. (At a
pretty late stage in the process, too.)
Coridon Henshaw <(chenshaw<RE<MOVE>@(T
news:oAJn9.54129$PP.73247@rwcrnsc53:
> The real question, of course, is why are other major paper publishing
> houses still refusing to do something equivalent to Baen. I don't
> know, myself. My suspicion is that they've allowed themselves to get
> scared off by boogeymen.
It's a control thing. The enemy isn't interested in the numbers
associated with the publication of unencrypted ebooks. All they see is a
loss of power. What they're terrified about is not 'lost sales' but
rather the prospect that someone, somewhere might be reading an ebook
without permission. It's not about money, it's about a spiteful and
childish exercise of power that is utterly in keeping with what one should
expect in a society that selects psychopaths for positions in upper
management. Even the SFWA's anti-'piracy' statement tilts in this
direction with its emphasis that authors have a right to /control/ how
their works are used--regardless of the financial issues involved with
ebook sharing.
You're not going to have any more luck pursuading any other major
publishers to take the open-access approach than you'd have pursuading a
pedophile to stop abusing children. The enemy is just too sick to be
reasoned with.
--
"We're Americans. Fuck you." -- Paraphrase of US foreign policy. /
Patriotism means no questions. Palladium is good for you. Arbeit macht
frei. // Coridon Henshaw / http://www3.sympatico.ca/gcircle/csbh
Peter Meilinger
>"Peter Meilinger" <mell...@bu.edu> wrote
>> When's War of Honor come out? I thought March To The Stars
>> wasn't coming out until January? I still haven't decided if I
>> want to buy a webscription to it yet.
>It's out now, but the CD only contains the 1st half of March. It's the only
>incomplete book in the cd.
Ah, that makes sense. Thanks.
Pete
Dave Conrad
> Anonymous User <anon...@remailer.havenco.com> writes:
>
>
>>Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Dave Conrad wrote:
>>>
>>>>John Duncan Yoyo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 4 Oct 2002 21:23:47 -0700, "pan" <p...@syix.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>}
>>>>>} "Tom" <tmon...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>>>} news:927eb8b6.0210...@posting.google.com...
>>>>>} > The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
>>>>>} > contains these books
>>>>>} >
>>>>>} [deleted library catalog of included titles]
>>>>>}
>>>>>} Price?
>>>>>
>>>>Does anyone know if the SFBC edition includes the CD?
>>>>
>>>It does not.
>>>
>>>
>>Why not ?
>>
>
> Probably because the SFBC hasn't been persuaded of the value of
> including CDs.
>
>
Which is unfortunate, if it is true. I have it in my cart at SFBC, but
will now buy at Amazon or another bookstore instead, if they have it
with the CD.
--
Dave C. (Plug & Play)
iN*T*x
"To break the rules is to break the spell" - C. Lasch
Member, Team AWWAJALOOM (http://www.theferrett.com/theteam.htm)
Vadim S Kaplunovsky
J.B. Moreno <pl...@newsreaders.com> wrote:
>pan <p...@syix.com> wrote:
>
>> "Tom" <tmon...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> > contains these books
>> >
>> [deleted library catalog of included titles]
>>
>> Price?
>
I wish :-(. I went to the Borders today, the harcover boos were there,
but no CDs in the book itself. There was a separate CD pack priced at $39.95.
I bought the CD pack, and when I put them in my computer, they turned out
to be audio CD's. SHIT!
-- Vadim.
--
*******************************************************************
Vadim S. Kaplunovsky, | va...@physics.utexas.edu
Professor of Physics, | #include <std_disclaimer.h>
University of Texas at Austin. | #excuse bad_typing.
Eric Flint
"Andrew Wheeler" <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote in message
news:3D9F8BCE...@optonline.com...
> Eric Flint wrote:
> >
> > The real question, of course, is why are other major paper publishing
> > houses still refusing to do something equivalent to Baen. I don't know,
> > myself. My suspicion is that they've allowed themselves to get scared
> > off by boogeymen.
>
> Everybody else major (except DAW) are owned by large corporations, and
> so will jump into a program like this (either one -- free ebooks as
> advertising or completely unencrypted ebooks) approximately when the
> ambient temperature of hell allows figure-skating. (I can just imagine
> what the legal departments would say, not to mention corporate
> higher-ups in general.)
>
> Now, if DAW does something like this, and it works...and then somebody
> like ibooks does it, and it works...then, maybe, the other large SF
> publishers will think about allowing a steering committee to look into
> the possibility of issuing a report on the feasibility of empaneling a
> committee to really, seriously, closely and deeply investigate the idea
> for about five years.
>
> --
> Andrew Wheeler
Tch. Andrew, you are a cynical, cynical man. For shame. Alas, I'm sure
you're right. The instinctive reaction of a large corporation is not to
compete, but to use its economic and political muscle to stifle competition.
Rarely have we seen a better illustration of that truth that watching the
way the recording and movie industries have had Congress dancing to their
tune for the past few years.
Eric
J.B. Moreno
> J.B. Moreno <pl...@newsreaders.com> wrote:
> >pan <p...@syix.com> wrote:
> >
> >> "Tom" <tmon...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> >> > The CD that comes with the first 100,000 HB copies of War of Honor
> >> > contains these books
> >> >
> >> [deleted library catalog of included titles]
> >>
> >> Price?
> >
> >The CD comes as part of the hardcover book, the HC is priced normally.
>
> I wish :-(. I went to the Borders today, the harcover boos were there,
> but no CDs in the book itself. There was a separate CD pack priced at $39.95.
> I bought the CD pack, and when I put them in my computer, they turned out
> to be audio CD's. SHIT!
Uhm, either that store is seriously confused about how to stock things,
or you were confused about what you were buying -- the CD in question
isn't to be sold separately, and at least for the moment neither is the
book.
Robert A. Woodward
"Dan Neely" <dan...@pitt.edu> wrote:
Just less than 1/3 (10 chapters out of 33 total plus an epilogue).
--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw
Jo'Asia
> As far as I know, 100,000 is their first printing. This way, they don't
> have to have the additional costs associated with a CD (which are not
> horribly expensive, but not cheap -- it could double the manufacturing
> cost of a book)
What? In Poland making 100.000 CD's would cost about $.50 each - if you go
to the highest bidder.
Are you telling me that the cost of manufacturing a _hardcover_ is about
$.50? 8)
Jo'Asia
--
__.-=-. Joanna Slupek http://bujold.fantastyka.net/ .-=-.__
--<()> (Add one 'l' to 'hel' when replying by e-mail) <()>--
.__.'| ..................................................... |'.__.
He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
Alan Barclay
Jo'Asia <JoA...@rassun.art.pl> wrote:
>Andrew Wheeler wrote in message <3D9F8D3C...@optonline.com>:
>
>> As far as I know, 100,000 is their first printing. This way, they don't
>> have to have the additional costs associated with a CD (which are not
>> horribly expensive, but not cheap -- it could double the manufacturing
>> cost of a book)
>
>What? In Poland making 100.000 CD's would cost about $.50 each - if you go
>to the highest bidder.
>
>Are you telling me that the cost of manufacturing a _hardcover_ is about
>$.50? 8)
There is more to it than just manufacturing the CD's. You've got to get
them into the book too. That means work that a printer isn't necessarily
expert at (as almost all books don't have CD's).
Pete McCutchen
wrote:
>> So do I. That would settle what is, to me, the only remaining valid and
>> legitimate question about whether the Baen methods are generally applicable.
>> The argument has been advanced that Baen's methods only work because of what
>> you might call the "man-bites-dog" effect. I.e., they work because they are
>> dramatically unusual. But if _everyone_ started doing it, so the argument
>> goes, the end result would be to beggar everyone.
>
>I can think of some other, not ludicrous explanations -- that Baen is
>a niche publisher with an audience that willing to do things that
>isn't true for the overall audience. (I'm not saying I believe that
>-- I dunno, either way -- although I certainly am saying I'd like to
>have it tested.)
Well, in fairness, Baen publishes series whose readers are known for
their loyalty. Bujold's Vorkosigan series and Weber's Honor
Harrington series come to mind, in particular. There are, indeed,
people who will happily purchase *both* Webscriptions and hardcover
copies of such books. I'm not sure that you get this sort of devotion
in the mass market. Will somebody who buys three books a year bother
to buy both the e-book and hardcover?
For that matter, although I feel reasonably comfortable using
computers, I'm old enough that I grew up with real books. Will the
current generation of young fans (gen z?) want an actual paper copy,
or will they be content with the e-book? Maybe Webscriptions will
only work for the next ten years or so.
On balance, I actually pretty much agree with Eric. So take the above
as a bit of devil's advocacy.
--
Pete McCutchen
Pete McCutchen
wrote:
>
>"Eric Flint" <efl...@home.com> writes:
>
>> The reason it works is because Webscriptions titles are: a) cheap; b)
>> user-friendly. So there's simply no incentive for anyone to engage in
>> copyright infringement except pure and simple goofballs. And those ye shall
>> always have with you, but by themselves they're nothing more than (at most)
>> a petty nuisance.
>
>This is the same argument Ted Nelson made for Project Xanadu, too --
>that enforcement would be a non-issue because accessing the official
>for-pay copy was so convenient and so cheap that there was no
>particular incentive to cheat. And that most people wouldn't mind
>paying *reasonable* fees anyway.
What is "Project Xanadu," and how did it do?
--
Pete McCutchen
Drew Stowers
wrote:
Most fiction don't have CDs, but a great many computer books do.
The tech is there if people want to use it/buy it. I would think a
printer would get the equipment if it meant a continuing contract to
print books for a major publisher.
J.B. Moreno
> gor...@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) wrote:
>
-snip-
> >There is more to it than just manufacturing the CD's. You've got to get
> >them into the book too. That means work that a printer isn't necessarily
> >expert at (as almost all books don't have CD's).
>
>
> Most fiction don't have CDs, but a great many computer books do.
>
> The tech is there if people want to use it/buy it. I would think a
> printer would get the equipment if it meant a continuing contract to
> print books for a major publisher.
Baen isn't a major publisher in that sense.
jtingle
>"Eric Flint" <efl...@home.com> writes:
>
>> "Joel Rosenberg" <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote in message
>> news:m2smzka...@joelr.ellegon.com...
>> So do I. That would settle what is, to me, the only remaining valid and
>> legitimate question about whether the Baen methods are generally applicable.
>> The argument has been advanced that Baen's methods only work because of what
>> you might call the "man-bites-dog" effect. I.e., they work because they are
>> dramatically unusual. But if _everyone_ started doing it, so the argument
>> goes, the end result would be to beggar everyone.
>
>I can think of some other, not ludicrous explanations -- that Baen is
>a niche publisher with an audience that willing to do things that
>isn't true for the overall audience. (I'm not saying I believe that
>-- I dunno, either way -- although I certainly am saying I'd like to
>have it tested.)
Of course, there is the apparently-ludicrous-to-the-record-industry
explanation that most people are _basically honest_, so long as they
perceive the other actor as honest. One key to Baen and Fictionwise's
success is, IMO, the fact that they've kept prices about where most
folk's common sense tells them they should be. I actually prefer to
buy single copies of Baen titles as ebooks rather than paper books,
particularly when I travel. (An HP Jornada 568 running Mobipocket &
MS Reader with a pair of 64 Mb CF cards carries a lot of books and
music in a very small package.)
I've never really been a fan of Webscriptions due to the fact that I
dislike about 80% of what Baen publishes (hey, it's an above-Sturgeon
percentage). Nonetheless, the $3-6 range that Baen charges for
individual titles tallies well against most folks' instinctive book
balancing. It's a little less than the cost of a paperback, since the
publisher doesn't have to print, bind, ship or stock physical books
and he doesn't have to let books go out of print.. "Why yes, Mr IRS,
we do have 125,000 titles in inventory; they're right over here in
this disc drive under my desk. Value? Well, we charge $4 each
retail, so about $300,000 ought to cover it. VBEG"
Why the RIAA can't use this logic and charge $1 per song for most
album tracks, I just can't figure out. (1 album costs about $14-20,
with 15-18 tracks each... sounds like a buck a track to me.)
The software industry abandoned strong copy protection years ago. The
ebook industry seems to be _slowly_ coming to the same conclusion.
Someday the record folks will wake up.
Regards,
Jack Tingle
pan
"Drew Stowers" <dsto...@blarg.net> wrote in message
news:3da05f05...@news.blarg.net...
For the record:
That technology that computer book publishers use to glue CDs
into covers needs slight revision. Removal of the CD often means
damaging the cover. And let us not speak of the ruin caused by
trying to pry loose the CD pocket.
Arrrgh!
Especially when said computer book/CD turns out to be no more
than a collection of crippleware being flogged by publisher.
Pan
Joel Rosenberg
Me, too. The real wildcard is the PDA technology. At the MNstf
meeting yesterday, I looked at Dean Gahlon's PDA -- which retails for
about $250, right now -- and while the screen was, well, PDA-sized,
the clarity, sharpness, and backlighting would make it perfectly
acceptable for me to use as a reader. Double the screen size, and it
would be preferable -- for me, at least -- as a reader, although
frangibility would still be an issue, and many people would still
prefer paper books.
But follow the trends, and assume that, sooner than later, the "PDA"
becomes a combination cellphone, wireless Internet station (with even,
say, only the one-gig lightweight hard drives that are currently
available) and reader, and becomes (as part of the basic cellphone
package) both cheap and very common, if not quite ubiquitous, and the
utility of having paper books takes a downward spiral for most folks.
Robert Whelan
Computer books have been around for a while....CD's included.
Aaron Denney
> Of course, there is the apparently-ludicrous-to-the-record-industry
> explanation that most people are _basically honest_, so long as they
> perceive the other actor as honest.
> The software industry abandoned strong copy protection years ago. The
> ebook industry seems to be _slowly_ coming to the same conclusion.
> Someday the record folks will wake up.
Both of these can neatly be explained by the fact that the record
industry is almost entirely dishonest thieves, who can't imagine other
people not being as dishonest as they.
--
Aaron Denney
-><-
Brad Templeton
>Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>
>> Me, too. The real wildcard is the PDA technology. At the MNstf
>> meeting yesterday, I looked at Dean Gahlon's PDA -- which retails for
>> about $250, right now -- and while the screen was, well, PDA-sized,
>> the clarity, sharpness, and backlighting would make it perfectly
>> acceptable for me to use as a reader. Double the screen size, and it
>> would be preferable -- for me, at least -- as a reader, although
>> frangibility would still be an issue, and many people would still
>> prefer paper books.
>
>not the screen size, but rather the refresh rate when you page.
>I can flip through pages in a paperback much faster than I can
>page with PalmReader.
>
>Maybe I need a better PDA. Palms aren't exactly fast.
>
> Paul
>
And there's no excuse for it either. The Palm actually has more CPU
than a lot of early-day computers which could easily page quickly
through documents, even typeset ones.
If they find it really hard to lay out the text in real time, they can
and should pre-render the next 10 pages and the prior few as well, and
then it would only slow down if you started going really fast, which
would not be perfect, but would be fine for me.
--
Brad Templeton's gallery of giant panormamic photos from around the world...
http://www.templetons.com/brad/pano
Dan Goodman
news:769567bf.02100...@posting.google.com:
>
> Me, too. The real wildcard is the PDA technology. At the MNstf
> meeting yesterday, I looked at Dean Gahlon's PDA -- which retails for
> about $250, right now
Pedantic note: I recall Dean saying that _the equivalent_ would cost about
that today. Which I interpreted as mean that his particular model wasn't
currently available..
Coridon Henshaw <(chenshaw<RE<MOVE>@(T
news:ltt0quss929ca9p6i...@4ax.com:
> The software industry abandoned strong copy protection years ago.
No, they didn't. They just forgot about it for a while. The cycle is
going the other way at the moment with Microsoft Activation along with all
the other centralized user database systems, and of course Microsoft
Ubiquitous Law Enforcement aka Palladium.
Dongles never really went away, either.
--
"We're Americans. Fuck you." -- Paraphrase of contemporary US foreign
policy. / Patriotism means no questions. Freedom is slavery. Arbeit
Coridon Henshaw <(chenshaw<RE<MOVE>@(T
> Maybe I'm odd, but the problem I have with books-on-PDAs is
> not the screen size, but rather the refresh rate when you page.
> I can flip through pages in a paperback much faster than I can
> page with PalmReader.
I wonder how much of this is due to slow hardware and how much is due to
something stupid like decrypting ebooks on a per-page basis...
Pete Fenelon
>>
>>Maybe I need a better PDA. Palms aren't exactly fast.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>
> And there's no excuse for it either. The Palm actually has more CPU
> than a lot of early-day computers which could easily page quickly
> through documents, even typeset ones.
My old Handspring had as much computing power as my first desktop Unix
workstation (a Sun-3) and twice the RAM (8 meg vs 4).
I liked it, got a lot of usage out of it for a couple of years, but in
the end I needed a keyboard again - I went after a secondhand Psion
Series 7 and finally found one earlier this month. Bit large for a PDA
(kind of intermediate between a palmtop and a laptop) but it does
exactly what I want and does it very well! (I'd previously had a Psion
Series 3 back in the early nineties and got several good years out of
that -- then again, that was as powerful as a first-generation IBM
PC...)
pete
--
pe...@fenelon.com "there's no room for enigmas in built-up areas" HMHB
Coridon Henshaw <(chenshaw<RE<MOVE>@(T
news:qnOdnajca78...@News.GigaNews.Com:
> Cell phone (with headset/mic)
> MP3 Player (shares same headphones)
> Reader (with paperback-page sized display)
> Internet connectivity with optional folding keyboard
You left out:
Low-grade GPS unit to enforce region-based usage controls.
Iris scanner and eyeball tracker to make absolutely sure locked content is
never viewed by someone other than the authorized e-serf.
TCPA hardware to prevent access to unauthorized or unAmerican materials.
Self destruct logic triggered on any attempt to open or reprogram the
device
-dsr-
Joel Rosenberg
> Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>
>> Me, too. The real wildcard is the PDA technology. At the MNstf
>> meeting yesterday, I looked at Dean Gahlon's PDA -- which retails for
>> about $250, right now -- and while the screen was, well, PDA-sized,
>> the clarity, sharpness, and backlighting would make it perfectly
>> acceptable for me to use as a reader. Double the screen size, and it
>> would be preferable -- for me, at least -- as a reader, although
>> frangibility would still be an issue, and many people would still
>> prefer paper books.
>
> Maybe I'm odd, but the problem I have with books-on-PDAs is
> not the screen size, but rather the refresh rate when you page.
> I can flip through pages in a paperback much faster than I can
> page with PalmReader.
>
> Maybe I need a better PDA. Palms aren't exactly fast.
>
The one I was playing with paged certainly fast enough for me.
But that's a technology issue; and the trend there is, after all,
faster, cheaper, more reliable.
--
Confession is good for the soul, but bad for the career.
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Joel Rosenberg
> "Joel Rosenberg" <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote in message
> news:769567bf.02100...@posting.google.com...
>
>> But follow the trends, and assume that, sooner than later, the "PDA"
>> becomes a combination cellphone, wireless Internet station (with even,
>> say, only the one-gig lightweight hard drives that are currently
>> available) and reader, and becomes (as part of the basic cellphone
>> package) both cheap and very common, if not quite ubiquitous, and the
>> utility of having paper books takes a downward spiral for most folks.
>
> Cell phone (with headset/mic)
> MP3 Player (shares same headphones)
> Reader (with paperback-page sized display)
> Internet connectivity with optional folding keyboard
>
> That's the combination of features thats rings up a sale from me.
Yup. And if inexpensive, or "free" -- as part of the cellphone
package -- it'll ring up a *lot* of sales.
--
TeX is potentially the most significant invention in typesetting in this
century. It introduces a standard language for computer typography, and in
terms of importance could rank near the introduction of the Gutenberg press.
-- Gordon Bell
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Eric Flint
news:ltt0quss929ca9p6i...@4ax.com...
Jack captures perfectly what I think is the key to the whole issue. I
personally think that people grossly overestimate the attraction of e-books,
even assuming a tremendous improvement in the technology. The fact is that
study after study shows that even _young_ people (i.e., the ones who are
supposedly the "post-paper generation") consistently prefer paper books to
electronic ones. However, I could be wrong about that, and it could be that
within a relatively short time all books will be electronic. So what?
PROVIDED that publishers have the sense to publish their e-books cheaply and
in a format which is user-friendly, most people will still continue to
prefer to pay for legitimate copies than take the time and effort to track
down pirated ones. Especially since most pirated copies are of shoddy
quality. There are _so_ many ways that a publisher with half a brain can
make their legitimate product attractive to the reader that they should have
no difficulty burying the pirates.
Will there continue to be some piracy? Yes, of course. Big deal. There
isn't an industry in the world that doesn't suffer a certain amount of loss
due to theft of some kind. But as long as it remains a nuisance on the
side, they live with it. Retail hardware and garment stores don't demand
the suspension of the Bill of Rights and the imposition of martial law to
put a complete stop to shoplifting, do they? So why do the music recording
and movie industries get to do the electronic equivalent? Those corporate
executives and their shills are nothing but lazy, stupid, greedy bastards,
who would rather trample all over the Constitution than get up off their fat
butts and earn their living. They could _easily_ figure out a hundred ways
to make money from the kind of relaxed and open approach to selling their
product that Baen Books has taken, if they wanted to.
But, what can you expect? These are the same people who have been screaming
"the sky is falling!" for half a century. They have opposed EVERY
technological advance, going back to their shrieks that they'd be driven out
of business by radio stations playing songs for free. These are the same
bums who, like Jack Valenti, swore that videotapes would ruin them. Or that
music tapes would ruin them. Or that... you name it, they opposed it and
tried to get laws passed against it.
The inevitable result, of course, is that now a widespread perception exists
throughout the American population (and, I suspect, the population of most
countries) that they are being gouged and ripped off by those industries.
That perception is the culture medium for the growth of genuinely mass-based
and widespread piracy, because people feel no qualms about sticking it to
industries they consider Bluebeard and Captain Kidd. So the greedy bums
wound up creating exactly what they feared most.
So far, the publishing industry has generally managed to avoid the same
public oppobrium. But if the industry continues to tag along behind the
RIAA Pied Piper, things will start to change. And then you _will_ start
seeing a real problem with book piracy. The best way to stop it is for the
publishing industry to break sharply and take a completely different course.
More or less, the course that a few publishers like Baen (and many academy
presses, by the way) and distributors like Fictionwise have taken.
Eric
Samuel Paik
> What is "Project Xanadu," and how did it do?
Project Xanadu was an early cut of the idea of hypertext by Ted Nelson,
dating back to the mid-1960s. His ideas and designs are a lot richer
than HTTP/HTML. You can read about them in his book "Dream Machines"/
"Computer Lib".
An engineering prototype was built over the years, supported by various
companies (notably Autodesk owned the Xanadu company in the 1990s), but
an implementation never quite materialized. IIRC, at least part of what
existed of Xanadu was released as open source a few years back.
I think it is safe to say that Ted Nelson and Xanadu were influential
for the ideas, rather than for any software that was directly produced.
Some googling...
Here's some info <http://www.iath.virginia.edu/elab/hfl0155.html>
Here's Ted's rather minimal website <http://ted.hyperland.com/>
This appears to be the current version of Xanadu <http://xanadu.com/>
And Udanax--the open source release! <http://www.udanax.com/>
Sam
factory
>
> The software industry abandoned strong copy protection years ago. The
> ebook industry seems to be _slowly_ coming to the same conclusion.
> Someday the record folks will wake up.
Actually, as far as games software goes, it's back in vogue (and usually cracked within
days of retail release, and sometimes days before.
--
- Factory (there is no X in my email)
Andrew Wheeler
>
> Andrew Wheeler wrote in message <3D9F8D3C...@optonline.com>:
>
> > As far as I know, 100,000 is their first printing. This way, they
> > don't have to have the additional costs associated with a CD (which
> > are not horribly expensive, but not cheap -- it could double the
> > manufacturing cost of a book)
>
> What? In Poland making 100.000 CD's would cost about $.50 each - if you
> go to the highest bidder.
>
> Are you telling me that the cost of manufacturing a _hardcover_ is about
> $.50? 8)
No, but the cost of manufacturing a CD *and attaching it to a hardcover
book* would probably equal the buck-something the book cost to print.
--
Andrew Wheeler
--
Far beyond the moon and stars,
Twenty light-years south of Mars
Spins the gentle Bunny Planet,
And the Bunny Queen is Janet.
Martin Bonham
> Ebooks today are different. They don't really compete with normal
> books at all, because for most people they're far more difficult to
> read.
I Agree, in the sense of the steps that are involved before you start to
read the words on the screen.
(Starting with knowing how to use your computer and continuing from there).
You probably need to differentiate here between reading eBooks on a handheld
device and a computer with a full size screen.
In terms of issues of vision, the former is more difficult than a paperback
for people with visual impairment, while the latter is I believe generally
easier (large size of page on screen with additional magnification
possible).
> To transform an ebook into readable form is for the average
> person, basically more expensive than buying a paperback version of
> the book.
I would also agree, when the cost of the reader is included, and spread over
the number of books that the 'average person' (rather than the average
person in this newsgroup) buys in a year.
> Even ebook readers are cumbersome compared to a paperback
Total and absolute disagreement here.
The main point in favour of eBook readers is that they are FAR FAR LESS
cumbersome than paperbacks or hardbacks.
Not only are their volume and mass much less, but they only need one hand to
operate.
Perhaps I am clumsy, but I can't turn pages in a paperback with the same
hand that is holding it, without obscuring the words.
I also can't leave a paperback on an inclined surface, with the words
showing, and change page without the book moving
I have an eBookman.
Essentially, I only use it in the Gym while using the cardio equipment.
In this situation it is much easier than a paperback.
It can be held and read with one hand (the hand that holds it also turns the
pages),
or placed down on the sloping console of the gym equipment, where it stays
put and a periodic tap on the screen turns the page.
Other times I read dead tree editions, or read eBooks on my desktop (which
has about 10 times the screen area).
Martin.
Martin Bonham
> I wish :-(. I went to the Borders today, the harcover boos were there,
> but no CDs in the book itself. There was a separate CD pack priced at
>$39.95.
> I bought the CD pack, and when I put them in my computer, they turned out
> to be audio CD's. SHIT!
I have a copy ordered, but it hasn't arrived yet.
I thought that the front cover says that there is a CD inside, and that this
was the case for the whole first printing of 100,000.
From the posts I have read from people who have received one, the CD-ROM is
in Glued down pocket at the end of the text.
I gather that the pocket needs to be torn or cut open for the CD to be
visible.
Is it possible that you overlooked it?
I have seen a post from David Weber about the possible confusion with the
Audio book.
Note that this is a VERY condensed version, and that the editing has
introduced continuity errors.
Martin.
--
Martin Bonham, Auckland, (Aotearoa) New Zealand.
Martin Bonham
doesn't include the CD-ROM wrote:
> Baen never actually told us they were doing it
> we just noticed a burst on the bound galley cover.
> (At a pretty late stage in the process, too.)
I realise that publishers think of lead times of six months or so as short,
but looking in the folder where I save some messages from Baen's Bar
it seems that Baen were talking publicly about this included CD-ROM
almost six months prior to publication.
To quote Jim Baen from the Pubishers Podium on the 2nd of April 2002
>I really am beginning to believe that publication of this novel with
>embedded CD will constitute a Gutenberg Moment.
If you have someone whose job it is to watch what your competitors are
doing,
perhaps might consider reading Jim's posts to Baen's Bar.
It wouldn't be a time consuming job - just get them to register and then get
the Publishers Podium conference sent to an email address, they could even
filter their email so they only see the Posts from the man himself.
Martin Bonham
> As for _War of Honor_, I enjoyed it, but there was a nagging question.
>
> ***spoilers***
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Perhaps it was because I had just re/read the annotated Special
> Edition of _A Fire Upon the Deep_, where "Blueshell had a humor fit at
> Pham's faith in public key encryption". Anyway, I couldn't help
> wondering: why is their crypto so bad? Wouldn't they have digital
> signatures or something?
>
> If there was in fact no good crypto, then I would have liked someone
> exulting or moaning about that fact.
I assume that you are asking about the Diplomatic messages that were
altered.
I had gained the impression that the transmission of messages between the
Embassies and the opposing governments was only as words printed out on
paper. (prior to this step in the path they would be electronic documents
between the governments and their own embassies).
To quote from Chapter 43 of _War of Honor_ by David Weber
[A note from Manticore to Haven]
"The traditional, archaic hardcopy of Elaine Descroix's response to the
Republic's most recent note lay on her desk, and a corner of her mind was a
bit surprised that the sheer, white-hot fury which had filled her as she
read it hadn't ignited the paper on which it was printed. "
and chapter 44
[A note from Haven to Manticore]
"Michael," Janacek replied patiently, "look at her note."
[snip quote of quote]
He looked back up from the sheet of paper and shrugged.
*** end quote ***
Martin.
Vadim S Kaplunovsky
J.B. Moreno <pl...@newsreaders.com> wrote:
>Vadim S Kaplunovsky <va...@bolvan.ph.utexas.edu> wrote:
>
>> J.B. Moreno <pl...@newsreaders.com> wrote:
>> >The CD comes as part of the hardcover book, the HC is priced normally.
>>
>> I wish :-(. I went to the Borders today, the harcover boos were there,
>> but no CDs in the book itself. There was a separate CD pack priced at $39.95.
>> I bought the CD pack, and when I put them in my computer, they turned out
>> to be audio CD's. SHIT!
>
>or you were confused about what you were buying -- the CD in question
>isn't to be sold separately, and at least for the moment neither is the
>book.
>
Well, I was confused and so was the sales clerk. But the management let me
return the audio CD pack, so no harm done. I bought the hardcover W0H instead,
and the CD is there, just not where I was looking to for it yesterday.
And now that I have the CD in my drive, I can report to this group that
every book comes in several formats to suit different software readers.
Specifically:
1) HTML
2) RTF
3) DOC (MS Word)
4) PRC (MobiPocket Reader??)
5) LIT (MS Reader??)
6) RB (Rocket eBook??)
For the last 3 formats, I take Baen's word for what they are, I have never seen them
before. In any case, my system runs linux and I don't have readers for those formats.
But the HTML works for any system. Baen recommends Netscape or MS Explorer, but the
KDE Konqueror works just fine. And even if your browser has problems with forms
or large files, you can still read one chapter at a time, then click on "next chapter"
link at its end. And if your browser does grok forms, you can have the table of content
index alongside the chapter you are reading, just as in sample chapters on Baen's site.
And the CD comes with no encryption or even a restrictive license anywhere I could see.
I presume the Copyright law is good enough for Baen, and it's certainly good enough
for me.
All in all, well worth the money.
-- Vadim.
--
*******************************************************************
Vadim S. Kaplunovsky, | va...@physics.utexas.edu
Professor of Physics, | #include <std_disclaimer.h>
University of Texas at Austin. | #excuse bad_typing.
Taki Kogoma
<mj...@REMOVETHISinternet.co.nz.invalid>, to rec.arts.sf.written decree...
>Vadim S Kaplunovsky <va...@bolvan.ph.utexas.edu> wrote
>> I wish :-(. I went to the Borders today, the harcover boos were there,
>> but no CDs in the book itself. There was a separate CD pack priced at
>>$39.95.
>> I bought the CD pack, and when I put them in my computer, they turned out
>> to be audio CD's. SHIT!
>
>
>From the posts I have read from people who have received one, the CD-ROM is
>in Glued down pocket at the end of the text.
>I gather that the pocket needs to be torn or cut open for the CD to be
>visible.
It's a heavy-bond paper envelope with a mylar viewpanel. The inside edge
is glued to one of the blank pages -- at/near the spine -- at the end of
the book. It is perforated about 10 mm from the interior edge , making
it theoretically possible to cleanly separate the envelope from the book
-- I managed to do it, but YMMV. This also opens the envelope.
Gym "I actually read WoH on my Visor, but the maps and drawings are only
really usable in the dead tree version or on a decent monitor." Quirk
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk | "I'll get a life when someone
(Known to some as Taki Kogoma) | demonstrates that it would be
quirk @ swcp.com | superior to what I have now."
Veteran of the '91 sf-lovers re-org. | -- Gym Quirk
J.B. Moreno
> That perception is the culture medium for the growth of genuinely mass-based
> and widespread piracy, because people feel no qualms about sticking it to
> industries they consider Bluebeard and Captain Kidd. So the greedy bums
> wound up creating exactly what they feared most.
Yeah, this is exactly the problem.
Even people who want IP to be respected aren't immune -- frankly the
biggest problem I have with them being ripped off is that it is creating
a culture where people think it's OK to rip anyone off as long as the
stolen material is digital.
Alan Barclay
Eric Flint <efl...@home.com> wrote:
>The inevitable result, of course, is that now a widespread perception exists
>throughout the American population (and, I suspect, the population of most
>countries) that they are being gouged and ripped off by those industries.
Not only gouged and ripped off, but there is a big perception that
publishers aren't interested in supplying what people want. (I
suspect this perception is justified, but that's only me).
For example, a huge number of people listen to CDs on computers.
Music publishers are working to make this impossible, to try
to prevent the creation of MP3s from these CDs. This is
resulting in people who wouldn't have downloaded the MP3s
doing so.
Locked & encrypted ebooks are another example of not supplying
what people want. People realize that they are going to upgrade
their computers, and that software that's available now won't
be available in a few years time, so these aren't want they
want.
When you work in a supply & demand business, you have to
supply what people demand. If you don't, then someone else
will. Jim Baen has realized this, but he's one of the few
who have.
David Dyer-Bennet
> Pete McCutchen <p.mcc...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > What is "Project Xanadu," and how did it do?
>
> Project Xanadu was an early cut of the idea of hypertext by Ted Nelson,
> dating back to the mid-1960s. His ideas and designs are a lot richer
> than HTTP/HTML. You can read about them in his book "Dream Machines"/
> "Computer Lib".
Literary Machines was the key one on Xanadu, I thought.
(And since I'm answering here, I'll also piggyback to Pete to say that
people seem to have covered his question with more detail than I would
have, so I'll leave it with that.)
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net / http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info
David Dyer-Bennet
> Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>
> > Me, too. The real wildcard is the PDA technology. At the MNstf
> > meeting yesterday, I looked at Dean Gahlon's PDA -- which retails for
> > about $250, right now -- and while the screen was, well, PDA-sized,
> > the clarity, sharpness, and backlighting would make it perfectly
> > acceptable for me to use as a reader. Double the screen size, and it
> > would be preferable -- for me, at least -- as a reader, although
> > frangibility would still be an issue, and many people would still
> > prefer paper books.
>
> Maybe I'm odd, but the problem I have with books-on-PDAs is
> not the screen size, but rather the refresh rate when you page.
> I can flip through pages in a paperback much faster than I can
> page with PalmReader.
>
> Maybe I need a better PDA. Palms aren't exactly fast.
Or a better reader, or a better book format. I have this problem
reading one book I have as Adobe PDF using the Palm PDF reader. I've
learned to push scroll about 8 lines from the bottom of the page, and
it's still horribly annoying. Plus I have to look at the scroll bar
to be sure I notice when I'm *at* the bottom of the page. But I don't
have this problem with iSilo.
David Dyer-Bennet
> In article <3DA0B32D...@dls.net>, Paul F. Dietz <di...@dls.net> wrote:
> >Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> >
> >> Me, too. The real wildcard is the PDA technology. At the MNstf
> >> meeting yesterday, I looked at Dean Gahlon's PDA -- which retails for
> >> about $250, right now -- and while the screen was, well, PDA-sized,
> >> the clarity, sharpness, and backlighting would make it perfectly
> >> acceptable for me to use as a reader. Double the screen size, and it
> >> would be preferable -- for me, at least -- as a reader, although
> >> frangibility would still be an issue, and many people would still
> >> prefer paper books.
> >
> >Maybe I'm odd, but the problem I have with books-on-PDAs is
> >not the screen size, but rather the refresh rate when you page.
> >I can flip through pages in a paperback much faster than I can
> >page with PalmReader.
> >
> >Maybe I need a better PDA. Palms aren't exactly fast.
> >
> > Paul
> >
>
> And there's no excuse for it either. The Palm actually has more CPU
> than a lot of early-day computers which could easily page quickly
> through documents, even typeset ones.
So what early computers could page quickly through typeset documents?
> If they find it really hard to lay out the text in real time, they can
> and should pre-render the next 10 pages and the prior few as well, and
> then it would only slow down if you started going really fast, which
> would not be perfect, but would be fine for me.
Sensible software approach, yes.
Eric Flint
"Martin Bonham" <mj...@REMOVETHISinternet.co.nz.invalid> wrote in message
news:3da0...@news.nz.asiaonline.net...
Tch. Why are people picking on poor Andrew? He's already explained that
for SFBC to carry the CD would be a contractual nightmare. Baen _already_
has the electronic rights to all those books, because the electronic rights
are part of Baen's "boilerplate" contract. SFBC does not have the rights,
and would have to negotiate them with each separate author for each separate
title.
Oh, yuck. If I were him, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole either.
I suppose it's conceivable that he could negotiate a package deal with Baen,
but even then... I dunno, Andrew, but I suspect you'd have to agree to carry
each one of those titles in a _paper_ edition also, and you probably don't
want to.
SFBC is a different type of publisher than someone like Baen or DAW or Tor.
They have certain advantages, but certain disadvantages also. This happens
to be one of them.
Eric
David Dyer-Bennet
> On 6 Oct 2002, Alan Barclay wrote:
>
> > In article <anp5fb.3...@sloth.hell.pl>,
> > Jo'Asia <JoA...@rassun.art.pl> wrote:
> > >Andrew Wheeler wrote in message <3D9F8D3C...@optonline.com>:
> > >
> > >> As far as I know, 100,000 is their first printing. This way, they don't
> > >> have to have the additional costs associated with a CD (which are not
> > >> horribly expensive, but not cheap -- it could double the manufacturing
> > >> cost of a book)
> > >
> > >What? In Poland making 100.000 CD's would cost about $.50 each - if you go
> > >to the highest bidder.
> > >
> > >Are you telling me that the cost of manufacturing a _hardcover_ is about
> > >$.50? 8)
> >
> > There is more to it than just manufacturing the CD's. You've got to get
> > them into the book too. That means work that a printer isn't necessarily
> > expert at (as almost all books don't have CD's).
>
> Computer books have been around for a while....CD's included.
So? Whole different marketplace, whole different publishing
infrastructure, whole different economics.
Tom
> Anonymous User wrote:
> >
> > Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Dave Conrad wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Does anyone know if the SFBC edition includes the CD?
> > >
> > >It does not.
> > >
> >
> > Why not ?
>
> Because it bugs *you*, that's why.
>
> Actually, mostly because a) it would be a contractual nightmare (we've
> never offered most of those books, so we have no right to sell or give
> them away to club members) and b) Baen never actually told us they were
> doing it -- we just noticed a burst on the bound galley cover. (At a
> pretty late stage in the process, too.)
>
> Andrew Wheeler
Hey if you ever visited Baen's Bar you would have heard about it months ago.
Tom
Michael Kube-McDowell
wrote:
>> Computer books have been around for a while....CD's included.
>
>So? Whole different marketplace, whole different publishing
>infrastructure, whole different economics.
And really expensive books.
--
Michael Kube-McDowell - author of VECTORS, coming October 29
Dave Conrad
> Tch. Why are people picking on poor Andrew? He's already explained that
> for SFBC to carry the CD would be a contractual nightmare.
> SFBC is a different type of publisher than someone like Baen or DAW or Tor.
> They have certain advantages, but certain disadvantages also. This happens
> to be one of them.
>
> Eric
>
I hope I didn't sound like I was bashing the SFBC. Its just that I
won't be ordering WoH from them because I can't get the extras. I
prefer to buy from them for the most part, and will probably order a few
things from them for my birthday, but WoH won't be one of them.
Probably from Amazon along with the new Sue Grafton.
--
Dave C. (Plug & Play)
iN*T*x
"To break the rules is to break the spell" - C. Lasch
Member, Team AWWAJALOOM (http://www.theferrett.com/theteam.htm)
Robert Whelan
> On 06 Oct 2002 23:02:53 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
> wrote:
>
> >> Computer books have been around for a while....CD's included.
> >
> >So? Whole different marketplace, whole different publishing
> >infrastructure, whole different economics.
>
> And really expensive books.
Which has nothing to do with the "expense" of including CD's, a "printing
problem" which has been solved.
Joel Rosenberg
Sure it does. When you've got larger margins, the extra costs (which
aren't just the creation of the CD) cut much less into your profits.
--
All your files have been destroyed (sorry). Paul.
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Robert Whelan
> Robert Whelan <rwh...@amanda.dorsai.org> writes:
>
> > On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Michael Kube-McDowell wrote:
> >
> >> On 06 Oct 2002 23:02:53 -0500, David Dyer-Bennet <dd...@dd-b.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Computer books have been around for a while....CD's included.
> >> >
> >> >So? Whole different marketplace, whole different publishing
> >> >infrastructure, whole different economics.
> >>
> >> And really expensive books.
> >
> > Which has nothing to do with the "expense" of including CD's, a "printing
> > problem" which has been solved.
> >
>
> Sure it does. When you've got larger margins, the extra costs (which
> aren't just the creation of the CD) cut much less into your profits.
If you mean that computer books have smaller print-runs than Honor
Harrington books, and so cost more per copy, I agree.
Joel Rosenberg
That's a subset of what I mean, but sure. Some computer books have
much larger print runs than many hardcover novels, and still list for
a lot more.
--
The only problem with being a man of leisure is that you can never stop
and take a rest.
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Lee Fyock
<b...@templetons.com> wrote:
> And there's no excuse for it either. The Palm actually has more CPU
> than a lot of early-day computers which could easily page quickly
> through documents, even typeset ones.
>
> If they find it really hard to lay out the text in real time, they can
> and should pre-render the next 10 pages and the prior few as well, and
> then it would only slow down if you started going really fast, which
> would not be perfect, but would be fine for me.
It's a tradeoff of time and memory, as most things are. We cache the
next page ("next" sometimes being "previous" if you're paging backwards
:-).
That way, when you're actually reading, the time to flip to the next
page is nearly instantaneous. After the page flip, we pre-render the
next page.
The problem is that older Palm OS devices give your app about, oh, 30K
of free space. Allocate a couple of buffers for text decompression,
and you can't afford more than one offscreen buffer, let alone 10.
Note: I'm biased since I wrote the decompression and offscreen caching
code. :-)
We could possibly cache more pages on devices that could handle it, but
frankly, we've gotten zero requests for this, aside from this post I
just read.
You can increase the speed of page flipping by setting the screen
quality to "low" in the preferences -- it runs the display in 1-bit
mode, which makes the bit blitting much faster.
Lee
Pete McCutchen
Thanks for the info, to all who answered my query.
--
Pete McCutchen
J.B. Moreno
> pl...@newsreaders.com (J.B. Moreno) wrote:
>
> >Eric Flint <efl...@home.com> wrote:
> >
> >> That perception is the culture medium for the growth of genuinely
> >> mass-based and widespread piracy, because people feel no qualms about
> >> sticking it to industries they consider Bluebeard and Captain Kidd. So
> >> the greedy bums wound up creating exactly what they feared most.
> >
> >Yeah, this is exactly the problem.
>
> Having known a lot of people who've used MP3s in all walks of life,
> especially young people, I'd like to point out that most people have
> zero idea of whether the record idea does or does not monopolize,
> gouge customers, etc.
I know I've gone looking for sites selling MP3s of songs I like at
prices I consider "fair", and was unable to find any such site --
whether or not such sites exist is thus moot; my person experience is
that I'm willing to pay a dollar or so for a song I like (in fact when I
lived in the bay area there was a music store that sold individual songs
for .5 to 1.75ea and put them on a tape, I purchased several tapes with
10-20 songs on them), and I was unable to find any site selling them for
that price.
Kyle Jones
> "Ian Montgomerie" <i...@ianmontgomerie.com> wrote in part
>
> > Ebooks today are different. They don't really compete with normal
> > books at all, because for most people they're far more difficult to
> > read.
>
> I Agree, in the sense of the steps that are involved before
> you start to read the words on the screen. (Starting with
> knowing how to use your computer and continuing from there).
>
> You probably need to differentiate here between reading eBooks
> on a handheld device and a computer with a full size screen.
> In terms of issues of vision, the former is more difficult
> than a paperback for people with visual impairment, while the
> latter is I believe generally easier (large size of page on
> screen with additional magnification possible).
My vision is pretty rotten (nearsighted) and I find the PDA easier
to read. I get neck strain if I read on a computer monitor for
too long. The PDA is light enough that I can hold it as close to
my face as necessary. Using my PDA becomes difficult in daylight
outdoor situations when the screen's backlight is no match for the
ambient glare. I need a PDA with a reflective display for those
situations.
Andrew Wheeler
>
> Eric Flint wrote:
>
> > Tch. Why are people picking on poor Andrew? He's already explained
> > that for SFBC to carry the CD would be a contractual nightmare.
>
> > SFBC is a different type of publisher than someone like Baen or DAW or
> > Tor. They have certain advantages, but certain disadvantages also.
> > This happens to be one of them.
>
> won't be ordering WoH from them because I can't get the extras. I
> prefer to buy from them for the most part, and will probably order a few
> things from them for my birthday, but WoH won't be one of them.
> Probably from Amazon along with the new Sue Grafton.
Well, in an attempt to redeem the honor of my company, I will see that
though the SFBC won't itself be selling _Q Is For Quarry_, a sister club
does have it, so you should be able to buy it from us if you want. (You
can search for all sorts of odd things on our website, and the search
generally works, though results come up in two sets -- "in your club"
and "outside your club.")
--
Andrew Wheeler
--
Far beyond the moon and stars,
Twenty light-years south of Mars
Spins the gentle Bunny Planet,
And the Bunny Queen is Janet.
Andrew Wheeler
>
> Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote in message news:<3D9F8EB4...@optonline.com>...
> > Anonymous User wrote:
> > >
> > > Andrew Wheeler <acwh...@optonline.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Dave Conrad wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Does anyone know if the SFBC edition includes the CD?
> > > >
> > > >It does not.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Why not ?
> >
> > Because it bugs *you*, that's why.
> >
> > Actually, mostly because a) it would be a contractual nightmare (we've
> > never offered most of those books, so we have no right to sell or give
> > them away to club members) and b) Baen never actually told us they
> > were doing it -- we just noticed a burst on the bound galley cover.
> > (At a pretty late stage in the process, too.)
>
> Hey if you ever visited Baen's Bar you would have heard about it months
> ago.
And if somebody is trying to sell something to me, I would hope that
he'd tell me that it includes a whole other thing (massive numbers of
other things, actually).
I'm afraid I *really* don't have the time to snoop around all of the
publishers' websites, looking for secrets that they didn't tell me. (Nor
have I gotten quite paranoid enough to think that's required -- yet.)
The people I do business with generally let me know about the things
that they're trying to sell me, oddly enough.
I also don't want this to look like a slam at Baen in any way -- even if
they *had* told us, it probably would have meant long convoluted
dealings with my legal department with the same end (and a lot more of
my time wasted). Simply put, we don't have the right to distribute 90%
of the stuff on that CD.
Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer
Coridon Henshaw <(chenshaw<RE<MOVE>@(T<H+ESE)sympatico.ca)> wrote:
>"Eric Flint" <efl...@home.com> wrote in
>news:oAJn9.54129$PP.73247@rwcrnsc53:
>
>> The real question, of course, is why are other major paper publishing
>> houses still refusing to do something equivalent to Baen. I don't
>> know, myself. My suspicion is that they've allowed themselves to get
>> scared off by boogeymen.
>
>It's a control thing. The enemy isn't interested in the numbers
>associated with the publication of unencrypted ebooks. All they see is a
>loss of power. What they're terrified about is not 'lost sales' but
>rather the prospect that someone, somewhere might be reading an ebook
>without permission. It's not about money, it's about a spiteful and
>childish exercise of power that is utterly in keeping with what one should
>expect in a society that selects psychopaths for positions in upper
>management. Even the SFWA's anti-'piracy' statement tilts in this
>direction with its emphasis that authors have a right to /control/ how
>their works are used--regardless of the financial issues involved with
>ebook sharing.
>
You've hit the nail on the head . Here is the equation :
"control" + "corporate chiefs = control freak" ===> No ebooks
A repeat of the corporate control-freakery played out in the 1990's
when MP3 was still young. The Studios ignored it, believing it would
thereby die of neglect. The rest is history as they say. And to this
day they're playing catch-up. But essentially their situation is hope-
less as their inaction, cantakerousness, bloody mindedness, control-
freakery, obfuscation and arrogance over a sustained period of years
allowed for the establishment of a black-market and subsequently
Napster et al. Now they're discovering, 5 years too late, that black-
markets are extremely difficult to shut down once established. The
surest way to diminish the threat would've been for them to meet the
MP3 challenge head-on and embrace it fully and honestly. With their
huge resources they could have cornered the market easily . . .
But as you rightly alluded, a streak of arrogance combined with
their over-weaning desire for control at every level of the process
was the source of their downfall.
It seems the bigtime book publishers are doing the same thing with
ebooks, hoping that their neglect will lead to ebooks withering on the
vine. They couldn't be more wrong : already a healthy and vibrant
counter-culture has taken root (as with the early MP3 scene) in which
books are scanned and freely exchanged in numerous venues on the
Net. Over 20,000 ebooks have already been uploaded, with the number
increasing by around 20 new titles daily. The big publishers still have a
fairly narrow window of opportunity before the technology develops to
such an extent that it will afford the ordinary man the ability to
digitize a book within minutes. And that coupled with high-res quality
screens could well be their nemesis before this decade is out.
>You're not going to have any more luck pursuading any other major
>publishers to take the open-access approach than you'd have pursuading a
>pedophile to stop abusing children.
>The enemy is just too sick to be
>reasoned with.
You see that's what YOU are saying about THEM.
But that's also what THEY say that about US .
Ne'er the twain shall meet ...
Drew Stowers
wrote:
>Drew Stowers <dsto...@blarg.net> wrote:
>
>> gor...@elaine.furryape.com (Alan Barclay) wrote:
>>
>-snip-
>> >There is more to it than just manufacturing the CD's. You've got to get
>> >them into the book too. That means work that a printer isn't necessarily
>> >expert at (as almost all books don't have CD's).
>>
>>
>> Most fiction don't have CDs, but a great many computer books do.
>>
>> The tech is there if people want to use it/buy it. I would think a
>> printer would get the equipment if it meant a continuing contract to
>> print books for a major publisher.
>
>Baen isn't a major publisher in that sense.
>
True, but then Baen's approach may well make him one.
'Time will tell us all'
Michael Kube-McDowell
I should think it has at least this much to do with it: when you're
talking about books which are, on average, significantly more
expensive than hardcover fiction, the cost of both the CD and the
additional manufacturing step to include it are less noticeable to
both the publisher and the consumer.
Expectations, of course, play a large part as well. Those of us who
can remember laboriously keying in application and uitility program
code from computer books and magazines would have been -happy- to pay
extra to get the programs on disk. There is no similar dynamic in
evidence where fiction readers are concerned.
K-Mac
Martin Bonham
Andrew Wheeler wrote in part
> And if somebody is trying to sell something to me, I would hope that
> he'd tell me that it includes a whole other thing (massive numbers of
> other things, actually).
> I'm afraid I *really* don't have the time to snoop around all of the
> publishers' websites, looking for secrets that they didn't tell me. (Nor
> have I gotten quite paranoid enough to think that's required -- yet.)
> The people I do business with generally let me know about the things
> that they're trying to sell me, oddly enough.
Do I gather from the above that the SFBC purchased the sub-rights to publish
a book club edition (in the USA and Canada) from Baen (as the first
publisher in the USA) and not from the Author ?
That does make some difference to the issue of what you might have expected
to be told and by whom.
It hadn't occurred to me that you had a commercial relationship concerning
this book with Baen.
I suppose that I had assumed that the SFBC would purchase rights direct from
the Author via their agent, just like I would have thought Baen and David
Weber's UK publisher would do separately [1].
At least my previous understanding is that UK publishers buy the rights from
the Author, rather than from the USA publisher.
[ Note that where I live the, USA and UK editions of the same book / same
series can be seen side by side on the shelves of the bookstores so I think
of them as operating in parallel, rather than at a geographical separation
[2], and that the SFBC doesn't sell here ].
Martin.
[1] As someone whose only knowledge in this area is picked up second hand
from reading posts in places like this and mailing lists. It was probably
via the Bujold mailing list that I first realised that there was a
difference between USA and UK publishers.
I suppose that Bujold is probably a bad example to extrapolate from - IIRC
she has had some of the same books published in the USA by four overlapping
publishers (Easton, Baen, SFBC and NESFA) and lots of Foreign language
publishers - which makes me think of Authors selling rights, rather than
publisehrs reselling rights.
[2] The first three examples I find on my own bookshelf are Weber (Baen &
Bantam) Bujold, (Baen & Earthlight) and Laurel K Hamilton (Orbit or Ace).
Martin Bonham
> Baen never actually told us they were doing it
> we just noticed a burst on the bound galley cover.
> (At a pretty late stage in the process, too.)
I wrote
> it seems that Baen were talking publicly about this included CD-ROM
> almost six months prior to publication.
"Eric Flint" <efl...@home.com> replied
> Tch. Why are people picking on poor Andrew?
Eric,
I think we are talking past each each other.
I am not picking on Andrew, (or at Ieast I didn't intend to).
Nowhere have I suggested that the SFBC should include a CD, or criticised
them for not doing so.
Even thought I live in a place where the SFBC doesn't sell their books, I
always read his posts with interest as I usually learn things from them.
Andrew complained that Baen didn't tell the SFBC about the CD-ROM.
(Well I read it as a complaint, perhaps it was just an observation, but to
me 'never actually' and 'late' have pejorative connotations)
All I did was to respond, by pointing out that the information was shared
with members of the public six months or so prior to the publication date.
Martin.
ps:
One I got over the initial moment of shock, I decided it was funny, to see
any Baen author, especially Eric, [1] leaping to the defence of someone who
I thought had been criticising Baen.
[1] Recently on Baen's Bar Eric listed his upcoming writing and publication
schedules for the next year.
By my count, Eric has said that Baen will be publishing in 2003 at least
FOURTEEN books with Eric's name on them.
Three Hardcover Novels, four paperback editions of 2002 Hardcovers, at least
five books he has edited, and two anthologies containing Novella's by Eric!
(There are about six novels and two novella's he will be writing or
co-writing in the next year before the last in the Belisarius series
unfortunately)
Full text quoted below in case anyone feels I am snipping too heavily above.
"Eric Flint" <efl...@home.com> wrote in message
news:vD7o9.70648$dp1.1...@rwcrnsc52.ops.asp.att.net...