Music magic
Tina Hall
In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
(man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
We were talking about (what I call) crutches to use magic; spells,
symbols, ingredients, gestures,... He explained how some could work
(or does in his universe).
Among that, symbols go through the mind, spark emotions, and thus
somehow (I didn't get that bit) result in magic in the symbols. (Or
something.)
Now, that wouldn't work for me (would just distract me), but music
might work somewhat like that for me. Or rather, music usually
automatically associates itself to something (whatever I'm doing
when I listen to it often, doing the same thing - like reading a
book or playing a game while listening to one particular CD will tie
that CD to that book or game).
So now I wonder whether something like that's used anywhere. Magic
effects (one can do) tied to hearing specific songs.
Thinking about that, I thought of time travel, and then remembered
the movie about some guy who could go back to the past while reading
his diary, and another able to do the same looking at old images
(trying to fix things in the past and making things worse). That
could be an effect prompted by music too.
And that reminds me that that effect could be prompted by smells as
well.[*]
(I don't want recommendations for books to read - I won't read them
- I'm curious about what exists in written speculative fiction, so
just titles&author will not tell me anything.)
Not that I'd like that any better than any other crutch. Maybe this
serves as inspiration to create something new and original (that I
might even like).
[*] I'm a visual person in the sense that simple words easily spark
images in my head, full fleshed (and I get annoyed at lengthy
descriptions of landscape and whatnot, as well as getting headaches
from complicated explanations on words that don't have an image
attached). But the 'trigger something' effect comes from hearing or
smelling something.
--
(Jansha) "I can't fight." | -- Seasons and Elements I:
(Jodra) "You can dodge." | Controlled by Magic
(Jansha) "You don't win a fight by dodging."
(Dahrahn) "At least not if you get out of breath faster than your opponent."
Quadibloc
http://www.soulgeek.com/comics/zona/
It started out as something rather strongly directed at a male
audience - a wish-fulfillment fantasy, as it were; nerdy guy from our
world is magically whisked to a fantasy world, and he discovers that
he has magic powers that he can unleash by singing - which he can do,
having been a musician, if less than successful, in real life.
And this beautiful giant warrior babe amazingly falls in love with
him...
But it's become more serious, and there's a real plot and one can care
about the characters.
John Savard
David Mitchell
>
> In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
> (man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
> whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
>
> effects (one can do) tied to hearing specific songs.
There are the Spellsinger books by Alan Dean Foster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spellsinger
And the Spellsong cycle by L E Modesitt:
http://www.lemodesittjr.com/the-books/spellsong-cycle/
I haven't read the former, but the latter pleased me enough that I
bought the whole series.
If you're interested in the concept, I'd recommend them.
--
=======================================================================
= David --- If you use Microsoft products, you will, inevitably, get
= Mitchell --- viruses, so please don't add me to your address book.
=======================================================================
garabik-ne...@kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk
>
> In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
> (man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
> whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
>
Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality and the Llano song therein,
especially the "Being a Green Mother", where the heroes can virtually
save or destroy the whole world with her music, and the (almost prequel)
"For Love of Evil", where the hero uses music to fight the Devil
himself (way TOO successfully) and to get his love at the end.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabík http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk |
-----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Tina Hall
> Tina Hall wrote:
>> In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
>> (man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
>> whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
>>
>> So now I wonder whether something like that's used anywhere.
>> Magic effects (one can do) tied to hearing specific songs.
> There are the Spellsinger books by Alan Dean Foster
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spellsinger
Singer... Colour me surprised. :)
It's an option for music magic, I guess, I just expected _hearing_
music to prompt whatever magic ability.
> And the Spellsong cycle by L E Modesitt:
> http://www.lemodesittjr.com/the-books/spellsong-cycle/
Is that singers again?
> I haven't read the former, but the latter pleased me enough that
> I bought the whole series.
> If you're interested in the concept, I'd recommend them.
Naw, see the rest of the OP. :)
--
"How does your brother get to do anything with water?" Tashen asked. The
Summer tribe was dry, after all.
(Dersia) "Mainly by yelling at it, from what it looks like to me."
-- S&E II: Controlling the Magic
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
>
> In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
> (man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
> whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
Yes, there is. Piers Anthony (yes, I know, watch the people running
away) had music be the mode of magical expression for the main character
in his Phaze/Proton series.
Alan Dean Foster had the Spellsinger.
Bards have commonly been described in RPGs and some literature as being
able to produce magical effects with their singing.
In my own universe there are musicmages, some of them extremely powerful.
I'm not sure if I've ever heard of a SMELL-oriented mage, as you ask
later in the post.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> On 11/19/10 5:05 PM, Tina Hall wrote:
>>
>> In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
>> (man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
>> whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
>
>
> Yes, there is. Piers Anthony (yes, I know, watch the people running
> away) had music be the mode of magical expression for the main character
> in his Phaze/Proton series.
Correcting myself; the main character's mode was POETRY -- the more
complex and impressive the more powerful. There was however a very
powerful magician who used music (most notably that of a flute) to
execute his magic.
>
> Alan Dean Foster had the Spellsinger.
>
> Bards have commonly been described in RPGs and some literature as being
> able to produce magical effects with their singing.
>
> In my own universe there are musicmages, some of them extremely powerful.
>
There are also several stories in which magic is *signaled* by music --
where the mage may hear music that is actually information about the
magical world or events around them.
alie...@gmail.com
> In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
> (man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
> whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
Beyond the fictional references others have provided, consider that
many real-world traditional "magics" use music and/or singing to
induce "altered states", AKA trances/spirit quests etc.
Considerable psychological paper has been published on the effect of
various rhythms on a listener's state of mind, supporting at least the
subjective part of such "music magic".
More outre are the claims (mostly defunct New Age) that such massive
stoneworks as Stonehenge and the Egyptian pyramids were built by a
bunch of singers somehow resonating their voices with individual rocks
to levitate them.
Mark L. Fergerson
tphile
adding to the list of magical music users
Pied Piper of Hamelin
DC comics The Pied Piper and The Fiddler
Sirens of Mythology
Zelazny's Changling and Madwand if memory serves had guitar playing
Orpheus
Tina Hall
> Tina Hall wrote:
>> In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
>> (man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
>> whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
> Yes, there is. Piers Anthony (yes, I know, watch the people
> running away) had music be the mode of magical expression for the
> main character in his Phaze/Proton series.
I've only seen your follow-up to your own post on google archive
(hasn't arrived here yet), so I'll dump what that prompted here:
Something in it did remind me of my Artists (in the ME), a magic
talent. If possible (by environment), Magic inadvertently flows into
what they create (whether that's drawings, dresses, music, magic
illusions,...) to touch every true heart (as in, everyone who can be
emotionally touched by it), to good or bad (depending on the Artist
and what's on his mind).
So an abused child may draw a painting that tears at everyone's
heart (even with, or because of, the beautiful motive blacked out by
angry squiggles by said child).
Or a humorous 'sketch' (done with magic illusions) may make you
chuckle and/or cheer you up.
Or a song may joy you to tears.
But that's the only effect, and it may come from any creative
talent. (Which depends on the Artist's mundane abilities, some can
draw, some have a knack for tailoring,...) I don't actually have any
character doing music.
> Alan Dean Foster had the Spellsinger.
> Bards have commonly been described in RPGs and some literature
> as being able to produce magical effects with their singing.
Singing again. What about hearing? (Just like, I assume, you'd have
to look at your symbol thing, I am thinking you have to hear
whatever music to prompt whatever magic.)
> I'm not sure if I've ever heard of a SMELL-oriented mage, as you
> ask later in the post.
The only option I can think of is for a smell to take you back to
whatever it reminds you of, too.
Maybe activities that are tied to smell; smelling herbs could help
with creating meals?
Howard Brazee
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> Alan Dean Foster had the Spellsinger.
I'm from his generation, I have Jimi Hendrix _Are You Experienced?_ on
my iTunes - but never would put it as the ultimate piece of music to
convert an alien demon.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
erilar
spells, but I'm blanking on it and don't have time to go digging in my
books to find one this morning.
--
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist
Jerry Brown
<jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>As it happens, there's a webcomic with that as its theme:
>
>http://www.soulgeek.com/comics/zona/
>
>It started out as something rather strongly directed at a male
>audience - a wish-fulfillment fantasy, as it were; nerdy guy from our
>world is magically whisked to a fantasy world, and he discovers that
>he has magic powers that he can unleash by singing - which he can do,
>having been a musician, if less than successful, in real life.
The movie Masters of the Universe had something along these lines,
where music is used to open dimensional portals and the human teenager
saves the day because only he can remember and play the tune that
links Earth to <...google...> Eternia.
Jerry Brown
--
A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
William George Ferguson
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 11/19/10 5:05 PM, Tina Hall wrote:
>>
>> In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
>> (man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
>> whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
>
>
> Yes, there is. Piers Anthony (yes, I know, watch the people running
>away) had music be the mode of magical expression for the main character
>in his Phaze/Proton series.
>
> Alan Dean Foster had the Spellsinger.
>
> Bards have commonly been described in RPGs and some literature as being
>able to produce magical effects with their singing.
>
> In my own universe there are musicmages, some of them extremely powerful.
McKillips' Morgon of Hed/Riddlemaster books
Bull's War for the Oaks
Baudino's Gossamer Axe
Petaja's sf/f rendering of the Kalevala (and, of course, the Kalevala
itself)
> I'm not sure if I've ever heard of a SMELL-oriented mage, as you ask
>later in the post.
Andre Norton's Scent of Magic
--
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
(Bene Gesserit)
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
If you can't hear a Bard's songs they generally aren't expected to
affect you.
The Siren of Greek Mythology sang, and her singing was so enchanting it
would draw men to her regardless of the fact that it would get them
killed on the rocks near her home. If you stopped up your ears, you
weren't affected because you couldn't hear the music.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 07:46:19 -0500, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
> <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Alan Dean Foster had the Spellsinger.
>
> I'm from his generation, I have Jimi Hendrix _Are You Experienced?_ on
> my iTunes - but never would put it as the ultimate piece of music to
> convert an alien demon.
>
Well, that's the problem with any such approach if the idea is to
convince the reader that THIS piece of music has THAT effect; if your
idea of great music or affecting music is drastically different, it
makes it much harder for the reader to go along with you. One of the
things that threw me out of King's Dark Tower series was the early
returning presence of the Beatles' "Hey Jude" -- I don't care for the
Beatles at all and "Hey Jude" is actively annoying.
Joy Beeson
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure if I've ever heard of a SMELL-oriented mage, as you ask
> later in the post.
The Scent of Magic (1998), Andre Norton.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://roughsewing.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.
Robert Bannister
> The Siren of Greek Mythology sang, and her singing was so enchanting it
> would draw men to her regardless of the fact that it would get them
> killed on the rocks near her home. If you stopped up your ears, you
> weren't affected because you couldn't hear the music.
>
I have avoided rock music to this day, and so far I haven't been killed.
--
Rob Bannister
William George Ferguson
<jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 07:46:19 -0500, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
><sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure if I've ever heard of a SMELL-oriented mage, as you ask
>> later in the post.
>
> The Scent of Magic (1998), Andre Norton.
Just thought of another, Margaret Ronald's Evie Scelan books. Evie's
supernatural abilities are based on her sense of smell.
Robert Carnegie
music or rhyme - remembering that advanced magic in Harry Potter
stories is that you don't have too say the words aloud - there are
more than a few.
I think Harry Potter's enemy Voldemort controls snakes using music,
but maybe I'm misremembering. He also speaks their language.
In Terry Pratchett's _Wyrd Sisters_, witches find themselves in a
Shakespeare-type verse play and apparently have to use the verse form
to work magic, although maybe that's only to avoid being detected as
non-characters. And a later volume is _Soul Music_, in which musical
energy invades the world from elsewhere.
Does music come into it in _A Wizard of Earthsea_...
There's the Hawkwind novels...
erilar
Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
Excellent plan. I've done the same and I'm not only still here, my
hearing is excellent.
Wayne Throop
: If we're talking about casting a spell being a thing that requires
: music or rhyme
Near as I can tell, the OP wasn't talking aout casting a spell
by performing music or uttering a rhyming incantation. The OP
was talking about magic occuring upon *listening* to music.
The only thing I can think of that comes close is Stross'
Merchant Princes series, in visual perception rather than music.
There is a knotwork pattern which, when perceived by some people,
flips them (and anything they are carrying) into an alternate
universe. Now, whether that's magic of psi is something of an issue.
There are several gimicks with auditory perception triggering
something, but for whatever reason, most of the ones I know of
aren't magic. There's Clarke's Tales from the White Hart story
about the sound/song that's the Goedel sentence for the human
brain. And several yasids for related stuff, including one where
the magical sound causes the human who hears it to transcend...
and the last remaining human stubbornly refuses to listen to it,
thinking that it's really a some form of boojum, and the discorporated
persons tempting him to listen to it (who are really just lingering
good samaritans trying to help him to get in on it) are out
to do him a mischief.
Hm. There's also Mozart, in "Jack-Jack Attack", on the Incredibles DVD.
You don't have to worry about one single thing, Mrs. Parr. I've
got this baby-sitting thing wired. I've taken courses and learned
CPR and I got excellent marks and certificates I can produce on demand.
I also brought Mozart to play while he sleeps to make him smarter
because leading experts say Mozart makes babies smarter.
And the beauty part is that the babies don't even have to listen
'cause they're asleep! You know, I wish my parents played Mozart
when I slept because half the time I don't even know what the heck
anyone's talking about.
Kari McKeen
When Jack-Jack hears the music, his superpowers are unlocked, allowing
him to teleport, levitate, phase through walls, transform to metal,
and to a demonic form, etc, etc.
Hm. So in some ways The Incredibles is a bit closer than The Merchant
Princes, except that it's a one-time deal rather than needing the exposure
to the stimulus for each superpowered act, and mostly occupies a short
subject on the DVD, and doen't appear in the movie proper other
than the offhanded mention above.
"We act normal, mom. I want to *be* normal! The only normal one is
Jack-Jack, and he's not even toilet trained!"
"Lucky!"
< maternal glare >
"I meant about being normal."
--- Violet and Daschiel Parr
(before Jack-Jack hears Mozart)
See also, "Heterodyning", which seems to work whether Agatha is
performing it, or merely listening to Dingbots perform it.
http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070606
"In my experience, a strong Heterodyne will take about
two hours to *truly* warp the laws of nature."
--- Carson von Mekkhan
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
David DeLaney
> I'm not sure if I've ever heard of a SMELL-oriented mage, as you ask
>later in the post.
Um. Perhaps either among the perfume industry or cooking industry, or else
a mage who's also a theriomorph, so that he/she spends time in animal form?
Dave "not to mention Pepe le Pew" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
tphile
"He's a Pinball Wizard"
"Plays by sense of smell"
"That deaf, dumb and blind kid"
"Sure plays a mean pinball"
tphile
Garrett Wollman
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> Bards have commonly been described in RPGs and some literature as being
>able to produce magical effects with their singing.
Lackey did a riff on this in her underappreciated "Bardic Voices"
series. (You can recognize them easily by the garish Baen covers,
which look very much unlike the garish Jody Lee DAW covers.) The
premise seems to be a sort of magical synesthesia -- the Free Bards
perceive magic as music, and can work it by playing music, but other
magic-workers (among the gypsies) don't.
The whole setting is puzzling in numerous ways. I have no idea if she
has revisited it in any of her MMPB-only short-story collections, but
it's something I'd like to see a bit more of.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Tina Hall
> Tina Hall wrote:
>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>> Alan Dean Foster had the Spellsinger.
>>
>>> Bards have commonly been described in RPGs and some literature
>>> as being able to produce magical effects with their singing.
>>
>> Singing again. What about hearing?
> If you can't hear a Bard's songs they generally aren't expected
> to affect you.
Their singing making the magic that affects you, or you hearing them
singing doing magic because of it?
That's the difference.
Not that I object, it's just not what I thought of at all.
> The Siren of Greek Mythology sang, and her singing was so
> enchanting it would draw men to her regardless of the fact that
> it would get them killed on the rocks near her home. If you
> stopped up your ears, you weren't affected because you couldn't
> hear the music.
Exactly, it's their singing that does the magic, not you hearing it
causing/enabling you to do magic.
--
"What colour is it?" Jodra asked, peering into Ansin's mug.
"I'd be able to tell you if you let me look at it."
-- Seasons & Elements I: Controlled by Magic
Excerpts at: <http://home.htp-tel.de/fkoerper/ath/athintro.htm>
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> Tina Hall wrote:
>>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>>> Alan Dean Foster had the Spellsinger.
>>>
>>>> Bards have commonly been described in RPGs and some literature
>>>> as being able to produce magical effects with their singing.
>>>
>>> Singing again. What about hearing?
>
>> If you can't hear a Bard's songs they generally aren't expected
>> to affect you.
>
> Their singing making the magic that affects you, or you hearing them
> singing doing magic because of it?
>
> That's the difference.
>
> Not that I object, it's just not what I thought of at all.
I see it as both in many cases. The song brings the music to your mind,
helps you shape it; and you're also using the music to carry magic to
someone else. I suppose it could even be that the effect on you comes
from inside; the Bard plays music and that triggers magic within you
based on association.
>
>> The Siren of Greek Mythology sang, and her singing was so
>> enchanting it would draw men to her regardless of the fact that
>> it would get them killed on the rocks near her home. If you
>> stopped up your ears, you weren't affected because you couldn't
>> hear the music.
>
> Exactly, it's their singing that does the magic, not you hearing it
> causing/enabling you to do magic.
>
A couple of characters I invented were like that; whether I'll ever be
able to work them into a real story I don't know, but the one was/is a
superhero whose powers come from whatever music he's listening to and
what associations it evokes in him. If the music doesn't "work" for him
(for instance, he hates most jazz music and has no associations with it)
then he gets no abilities because hearing it does nothing for him. If it
DOES work then the associations could be obvious for most people
(AC/DC'S song "Thunderstruck" giving him lightning/storm based powers
through association) or could be very personal (Rimsky-Korsakov's
"Scheherezade" giving him the powers of a classic fantasy wizard because
he used that as background music in an RPG when he played a wizard).
Norm D. Plumber
What kind of superhero only has powers when the right music is played
for him, when he is given the right kind of weapon? Teach him to sing
up his own music, at least.
--
The world is as it is because if it wasn't, it would be as it is.
Robert Carnegie
A few come with their own soundtrack, and maybe bring along
performers. "Othar Tryggvassen - Gentleman Adventurer!" and "Sir
Robin the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot" are such, I think.
In Doctor Who spin-off _The Sarah Jane Adventures_, Mr. Smith the big
super-computer in the attic opens up with a fanfare, unless he is
asked not to.
tphile
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On 11/20/10 10:24 PM, Tina Hall wrote:
> >>> Tina Hall wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Prince Valiant with The Singing Sword?
The Iron Eagle movie had one character who couldn't fly well without
his music
Tina Hall
> Tina Hall wrote:
>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>> Tina Hall wrote:
>>>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> Singing again. What about hearing?
>>
>>> If you can't hear a Bard's songs they generally aren't expected
>>> to affect you.
>>
>> Their singing making the magic that affects you, or you hearing
>> them singing doing magic because of it?
>>
>> That's the difference.
>>
>> Not that I object, it's just not what I thought of at all.
> I see it as both in many cases. The song brings the music to
> your mind, helps you shape it; and you're also using the music to
> carry magic to someone else. I suppose it could even be that the
> effect on you comes from inside; the Bard plays music and that
> triggers magic within you based on association.
That's still the bard doing the magic though.
What I have in mind: you put in a CD (or hear someone playing music,
no magic in that), which _then_ enables you to work magic. (Just
like looking at a symbol, the way you explained, and what I
understood of it.)
>>> The Siren of Greek Mythology sang, and her singing was so
>>> enchanting it would draw men to her regardless of the fact that
>>> it would get them killed on the rocks near her home. If you
>>> stopped up your ears, you weren't affected because you couldn't
>>> hear the music.
>>
>> Exactly, it's their singing that does the magic, not you hearing
>> it causing/enabling you to do magic.
> A couple of characters I invented were like that; whether I'll
> ever be able to work them into a real story I don't know, but the
> one was/is a superhero whose powers come from whatever music he's
> listening to and what associations it evokes in him.
Hah! That's exactly what I was thinking. :)
> If the music doesn't "work" for him (for instance, he hates most
> jazz music and has no associations with it) then he gets no
> abilities because hearing it does nothing for him. If it DOES work
> then the associations could be obvious for most people (AC/DC'S
> song "Thunderstruck" giving him lightning/storm based powers
> through association) or could be very personal (Rimsky-Korsakov's
> "Scheherezade" giving him the powers of a classic fantasy wizard
> because he used that as background music in an RPG when he played
> a wizard).
I was wondering about a way to steer/control the effect, but
association does work very well (I know that from experience).
--
(Dahrahn) "He killed it."
(Chyraen) "How!"
(Shanos) "He's a Spring Priest, how do you think he did it, covering it in
flowers?" -- Seasons & Elements II: Controlling the Magic
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
If he's concentrating on singing, etc., he's not fighting. Which will
kinda suck in combat.
Also he can't use the same song too often because, like anything else,
the effect lessens with repetition in close sequence. So he can't (for
instance) just put the theme to "Superman" on repeat on his iPod and
have those powers all the time.
(Maybe there's someone out there for whom any inspiring song or amazing
taste or whatever never dulls, even after a thousand times in a row, but
it's not true of me. I can listen to and enjoy the same music many more
times in a row than most people I know, but even I won't feel the same
chill-and-thrill after the first dozen repetitions.)
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about that! The kid could kick ass when he had
music playing, but without it he was only about passable.
Lawrence Watt-Evans
<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>On 11/19/10 5:05 PM, Tina Hall wrote:
>>
>> In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
>> (man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
>> whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
Has anyone yet mentioned the Song of Iluvatar?
--
My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com
I'm serializing a novel at http://www.ethshar.com/TheFinalCalling01.html
DouhetSukd
Shunned, perhaps?
tphile
Stoned
Jo'Asia
> The Iron Eagle movie had one character who couldn't fly well without
> his music
And we should not forget about Chuck:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHST5n068bc
Jo'Asia
--
__.-=-. -< Joanna Slupek >----------< http://goodreads.com/spriggana >-
--<()> -< http://esensja.pl/ >-------------< http://bujold.sf-f.pl/ >-
.__.'| -< BZZT SQUEAK FIRBLE WHOOSH - Death of Vorlons
{Richard P. Grant} >-
Lawrence Watt-Evans
wrote:
>> > Rob Bannister
>>
>> Shunned, perhaps?
>
>Stoned
Everybody must get stoned.
Tina Hall
Thing is that for me, years later, the songs still have the same
association. There's, for a few examples, one CD that has me think
of Dune, there's a bunch of *.mod songs/files that take me back to
WoT, and there's even two different sets of songs bringing me to two
different Usenet times (I don't remember specifics of whatever was
discussed, but it's kind of a mood I was reading and posting in
that's attached). There's also a couple of double-CDs that are
attached to my early Nethack games.
Most times, I can only listen to those songs again _if_ I don't mind
to be reminded.
I recently dug out the video tape attached to The Nights Dawn
Trilogy (it's music taped from TV, way back when one channel filled
the early/late hours, around 4am, with just music), because I don't
object to the association. Slowly, I've mostly de-attached at least
one song. The tape itself still puts me back in the chair I sat in,
reading (that has been gone long before I moved even).
I'd dig out the Dune one more often if I had it (it belonged to the
guy I used to live with). If I ever come across it, I'll buy one all
my own! :)
I bet if I got the CD versions of the records I had at around age
16, I'd be back there too (places I briefly lived, and people I
briefly knew).
The only thing that can prevent this associating is listening to the
same songs while doing different things. Depeche Mode has survived
mostly unstained, with just one or the other song sparking a brief
memory.
--
"What's that about the horns then? Arentus thought it mighty funny."
[...] "The one residing over that Hell place, is usually depicted to have
horns, like a bull."
"Oh. What a bastard." -- Kaymen and Ranes, Magic Earth I: Getting Caught
Robert Carnegie
> Also he can't use the same song too often because, like anything else,
> the effect lessens with repetition in close sequence. So he can't (for
> instance) just put the theme to "Superman" on repeat on his iPod and
> have those powers all the time.
>
> (Maybe there's someone out there for whom any inspiring song or amazing
> taste or whatever never dulls, even after a thousand times in a row, but
> it's not true of me. I can listen to and enjoy the same music many more
> times in a row than most people I know, but even I won't feel the same
> chill-and-thrill after the first dozen repetitions.)
For nothing:
(1) Hymn tunes;
(2) Enemies form a choir and sing "Frosty the Snowman" at your guy
during a fight on a hot day, and he melts.
John F. Eldredge
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> I'm not sure if I've ever heard of a SMELL-oriented mage, as you
ask
>>later in the post.
>
> Um. Perhaps either among the perfume industry or cooking industry, or
> else a mage who's also a theriomorph, so that he/she spends time in
> animal form?
>
> Dave "not to mention Pepe le Pew" DeLaney
Well, for that matter, there are a great many folk-tales involving magic
potions, most of which don't go into details about how the magic works.
Perhaps the scent produced is the mechanism?
--
John F. Eldredge -- jo...@jfeldredge.com
"Reserve your right to think, for even to think wrongly
is better than not to think at all." -- Hypatia of Alexandria
Gene Wirchenko
<dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>There's at least one other series where songs are needed for magic
>spells, but I'm blanking on it and don't have time to go digging in my
>books to find one this morning.
Modesitt's Spellsinger series?
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Gene Wirchenko
wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^
"Spellsong".
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Gene Wirchenko
<rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
[snip]
>Does music come into it in _A Wizard of Earthsea_...
No, it is words.
[snip]
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> Also he can't use the same song too often because, like anything
>> else, the effect lessens with repetition in close sequence. So he
>> can't (for instance) just put the theme to "Superman" on repeat
>> on his iPod and have those powers all the time.
>
>> (Maybe there's someone out there for whom any inspiring song or
>> amazing taste or whatever never dulls, even after a thousand
>> times in a row, but it's not true of me. I can listen to and
>> enjoy the same music many more times in a row than most people I
>> know, but even I won't feel the same chill-and-thrill after the
>> first dozen repetitions.)
>
> Thing is that for me, years later, the songs still have the same
> association.
Oh, the ASSOCIATION doesn't dull, but the impact -- the emotional
reaction to the association being brought forward -- dulls if I (or most
people) keep hearing the same thing over and over and over.
That is, the FIRST time I hear the Star Wars opening fanfare (when I
haven't heard it in a while), it brings forth all the awe and
gosh-wow-sensawunda that I got when I was a kid and first heard it in
the theater. Put it on repeat and after an hour it's become background
music that I'm not paying much attention to.
But turn it off and then wait six months or a year and play it again,
BANG, back comes the thrill.
So for the character in question, the full emotional reaction is what
brings out the full power. If it goes on repeat and starts to dull the
association, the abilities gained from it fade slowly away too.
But he could use the same piece again a year later.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
But the children say "AH'LL BE BACH ONE DAY!"
Frosty as played by Arnold Schwarzenegger.
JimboCat
>
> So now I wonder whether something like that's used anywhere. Magic
> effects (one can do) tied to hearing specific songs.
Not yet mentioned (perhaps because it's not quite what you're asking
for) is the "magic" in Tolkien. It's not _always_ tied to song, but
quite often it is.
Bombadil always sings, whether he's doing magic or not.
In the stories of the First Age, pretty much all the magic is sung:
Fingon's spell-contest with Sauron, Luthien's with Morgoth, etc. The
very world of Arda was sung, before it was even "made".
Even the Elven songs in _The Hobbit_ ("Tra La La Lally...") and even
more, the songs in the "room of fire" in the Rivendell chapters of
_The Fellowship of the Ring_ are magical, though they are magical in
the sense of "art", and are not necessarily meant to have physical
effect. C.f. Galadriel's comments to Sam about not understanding what
he means by "magic", since he uses the same word for both Elvish art
and "the deceits of the Enemy".
Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
Dumbledore: "I am the very model of a modern magic headmaster."
-- Harry Potter and the Pirates of Penzance
Kurt Busiek
<david.robo...@gmail.com> said:
> On 19/11/10 22:05, Tina Hall wrote:
>>
>> In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
>> (man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
>> whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
>>
>> So now I wonder whether something like that's used anywhere. Magic
>> effects (one can do) tied to hearing specific songs.
>
> There are the Spellsinger books by Alan Dean Foster
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spellsinger
>
> And the Spellsong cycle by L E Modesitt:
> http://www.lemodesittjr.com/the-books/spellsong-cycle/
>
> I haven't read the former, but the latter pleased me enough that I
> bought the whole series.
>
> If you're interested in the concept, I'd recommend them.
There are two books collecting the comics series PHONOGRAM, one called
RUE BRITTANIA and the other THE SINGLES CLUB. Both center on the idea
of "phonomancers," magicians who use pop music as a medium for magic.
It's a good idea, although I don't think they really made the idea of
music magic come alive in a specific enough way to feel different with
different songs and styles. But it made me want to play with the idea
somewhere, and do it my way.
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Robert Bannister
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 23:41:55 -0500, David DeLaney wrote:
>
>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>> I'm not sure if I've ever heard of a SMELL-oriented mage, as you
> ask
>>> later in the post.
>>
>> Um. Perhaps either among the perfume industry or cooking industry, or
>> else a mage who's also a theriomorph, so that he/she spends time in
>> animal form?
>>
>> Dave "not to mention Pepe le Pew" DeLaney
>
> Well, for that matter, there are a great many folk-tales involving magic
> potions, most of which don't go into details about how the magic works.
> Perhaps the scent produced is the mechanism?
>
Are you trying to undermine the basis of modern medicine and the
foundation of that holy mission, the pharmaceutical industry? It is
known that doctors give you potions - they may not always look like
potions because they are sometimes contained in a capsule or they are
dried (magically) and fed to you in the form of inconveniently large
pills. You know these potions are magic because sometimes they cure you
and sometimes they don't, depending on the magic power of the doctor.
It's not the taste or smell of the potion; it's just a way of getting
the magic into your body. You wouldn't want the doctor sticking his/her
magic fingers into your body (also known as digital rectal examination).
--
Rob Bannister
Tina Hall
> Tina Hall wrote:
>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>> Also he can't use the same song too often because, like
>>> anything else, the effect lessens with repetition in close
>>> sequence. So he can't (for instance) just put the theme to
>>> "Superman" on repeat on his iPod and have those powers all the
>>> time.
>>
>>> (Maybe there's someone out there for whom any inspiring song or
>>> amazing taste or whatever never dulls, even after a thousand
>>> times in a row, but it's not true of me. I can listen to and
>>> enjoy the same music many more times in a row than most people
>>> I know, but even I won't feel the same chill-and-thrill after
>>> the first dozen repetitions.)
>>
>> Thing is that for me, years later, the songs still have the same
>> association.
> Oh, the ASSOCIATION doesn't dull, but the impact -- the
> emotional reaction to the association being brought forward --
> dulls if I (or most people) keep hearing the same thing over and
> over and over.
I actually have to work on that. It's the reason I can't listen to
so many songs I (used to) like. I don't want the association
(because I don't feel like that right then, or outright disagree
with the feeling that comes with it). It's like slot doesn't fit
plug. That wouldn't happen without the emotional aspect.
Songs that, for example, briefly remind me of a situation with the
guy I used to live with don't have that problem, because there
aren't any emotions attached (ever since shortly after I don't think
there were any deep ones in that relationship either <g>).
Short term, if I listen to a song I like a lot (un-associated), that
dulls. It gets kind of old, and reminds me of fast food. (Thus some
stuff I mentally do call fast food music.)
Oh, and another thing I briefly thought of but then forgot last
time: It doesn't work the other way round! (I can not, as much as
I'd like to, remember what I was listening to while writing the
S&E.)
> That is, the FIRST time I hear the Star Wars opening fanfare
> (when I haven't heard it in a while), it brings forth all the awe
> and gosh-wow-sensawunda that I got when I was a kid and first
> heard it in the theater. Put it on repeat and after an hour it's
> become background music that I'm not paying much attention to.
Heh. That's just it, I can't listen to it for an hour. (Not the Star
Wars opening, but the associated songs I've got.)
And the video tape with the TV music works for the full 4h it's
taped[*], and then rewinding and playing it again. And you're right,
it's more the emotions than the association.
[*] Well, 3h. The first hour is a different set of songs of the same
program.
That's visual too, though. Some time ago I spent a lot of time
trying to find it on youtube, and even while finding some bits of
the right songs, I didn't find it with the right images (those on
the tape), so it was all just Wrong. (And the visuals are mostly
just some gogo-dancers, go figure.)
> But turn it off and then wait six months or a year and play it
> again, BANG, back comes the thrill.
Heh.
> So for the character in question, the full emotional reaction is
> what brings out the full power. If it goes on repeat and starts
> to dull the association, the abilities gained from it fade slowly
> away too.
> But he could use the same piece again a year later.
While it would be different for me, I'd have no problem accepting
that.
--
[leader of the Autumn tribe] "So who is?" - "Why don't you truly join my
household and try to figure that out? We could use you two." - "You mean
we've not already?" - Ghareg laughed. "You have to learn not to believe
everything someone tells you." -- Voreesa and Ghareg, S&E II: CtM
Tina Hall
>> So now I wonder whether something like that's used anywhere.
>> Magic effects (one can do) tied to hearing specific songs.
> Not yet mentioned (perhaps because it's not quite what you're
> asking for)
That's ok. I've given up on hearing music sparking the magic. <g>
> is the "magic" in Tolkien. It's not _always_ tied to
> song, but quite often it is.
[...]
(And resigned to see so much singing rather than other music.)
--
(Ansin) "Painting their house with the rest was actually fun. Shame
it all came off with the next rain."
"You were drawing lots of Warriors going to war." Lanar pointed out.
"Well, that was fun." -- Seasons & Elements I: Controlled by Magic
Robert Carnegie
> It's not the taste or smell of the potion; it's just a way of getting
> the magic into your body. You wouldn't want the doctor sticking his/her
> magic fingers into your body (also known as digital rectal examination).
Prestidigitation is the phenomenon of being able to stick a finger up
someone's butt that you met less than sixty seconds ago, I suppose.
It may be the main reason some people became doctors.
"Hey! Presto! Cut that out!"
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> JimboCat<10313...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>> Tina_H...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>
>>> So now I wonder whether something like that's used anywhere.
>>> Magic effects (one can do) tied to hearing specific songs.
>
>> Not yet mentioned (perhaps because it's not quite what you're
>> asking for)
>
> That's ok. I've given up on hearing music sparking the magic.<g>
>
>> is the "magic" in Tolkien. It's not _always_ tied to
>> song, but quite often it is.
> [...]
>
> (And resigned to see so much singing rather than other music.)
>
Practical reasons; in adventuring contexts (which is of course most of
the writing -- few people write novels in which everyone sits around
comfortably in their drawing rooms, except Regency romances and
Victorian mysteries) you need to make music without being encumbered
most of the time. The choices of portable instruments that will survive
the adventure is actually pretty limited (although you could always
invent some magical alternative); the most obvious, though, is the
musical instrument we are all born with, your voicebox. I'm a pretty
good singer, and I can also do sound effects and make noises that don't
sound like singing but are musical. Almost any other choice of
instrument in such a context will require you to use at least one hand
to play it and possibly both hands (and some are just Right Out barring
Really Silly Magic, as in summoning a floating Concert Grand Piano to
play during the battle). In my RPG campaigns the most common instruments
besides the voice would probably be some form of stringed instruments
(small harps, lute, etc.), a specialized crystalline instrument, and a
few wind instruments (harmonica, flute, and so on).
Robert Carnegie
think. There's something like singing "Good King Wenceslas" as part
of the fight against the Dark.
The television production of _the Box of Delights_ uses music, at
least.
And there's this from _The King and I_, apparently, so why is my brain
telling me that it was _Pinocchio_...
[ANNA]
Whenever I feel afraid
I hold my head erect
And whistle a happy tune
So no one will suspect
I'm afraid.
While shivering in my shoes
I strike a careless pose
And whistle a happy tune
And no one ever knows
I'm afraid.
The result of this deception
Is very strange to tell
For when I fool the people
I fear I fool myself as well!
I whistle a happy tune
And ev'ry single time
The happiness in the tune
Convinces me that I'm not afraid.
Make believe you're brave
And the trick will take you far.
You may be as brave
As you make believe you are
You may be as brave
As you make believe you are
[LOUIS]
While shivering in my shoes
I strike a careless pose
And whistle a happy tune
And no one ever knows,
I'm afraid.
[LOUIS AND ANNA]
The result of this deception
Is very strange to tell
For when I fool the people
I fear I fool myself as well!
I whistle a happy tune
And ev'ry single time
The happiness in the tune
Convinces me that I'm not afraid.
Make believe you're brave
And the trick will take you far.
You may be as brave
As you make believe you are....
Howard Brazee
magic violin (Was it in an earlier book?).
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
David DeLaney
"Crikey!"
Dave "a ray of light" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
ericthetolle
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> On 11/20/10 8:17 AM, Tina Hall wrote:
>
>
>
> > Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> >> Tina Hall wrote:
>
> >>> In light of a conversation I've had with Seawasp on LifeJournal
> >>> (man, that's an awkward way to have a conversation), I wonder
> >>> whether there's any music-indoctrinated/conditioned magic.
>
> >> running away) had music be the mode of magical expression for the
> >> main character in his Phaze/Proton series.
>
> > I've only seen your follow-up to your own post on google archive
> > (hasn't arrived here yet), so I'll dump what that prompted here:
>
> > Something in it did remind me of my Artists (in the ME), a magic
> > talent. If possible (by environment), Magic inadvertently flows into
> > what they create (whether that's drawings, dresses, music, magic
> > illusions,...) to touch every true heart (as in, everyone who can be
> > emotionally touched by it), to good or bad (depending on the Artist
> > and what's on his mind).
>
> > So an abused child may draw a painting that tears at everyone's
> > heart (even with, or because of, the beautiful motive blacked out by
> > angry squiggles by said child).
>
> > Or a humorous 'sketch' (done with magic illusions) may make you
> > chuckle and/or cheer you up.
>
> > Or a song may joy you to tears.
>
> > But that's the only effect, and it may come from any creative
> > talent. (Which depends on the Artist's mundane abilities, some can
> > draw, some have a knack for tailoring,...) I don't actually have any
> > character doing music.
>
> >> Alan Dean Foster had the Spellsinger.
>
> >> Bards have commonly been described in RPGs and some literature
> >> as being able to produce magical effects with their singing.
>
> > Singing again. What about hearing?
>
> If you can't hear a Bard's songs they generally aren't expected to
> affect you.
I suggest that if you can't hear the bard's music through vibrations
through the ground or in your diaphragm, then the bard obviously
hasn't properly cranked the volume up to 11.
Eric Tolle
ericthetolle
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> On 11/21/10 12:33 PM, tphile wrote:
> > Prince Valiant with The Singing Sword?
>
> > The Iron Eagle movie had one character who couldn't fly well without
> > his music
>
> Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about that! The kid could kick ass when he had
> music playing, but without it he was only about passable.
And of course there's Kronk and his theme song for being stealthy.
Though that may not be the best example.
Eric Tolle
Quadibloc
> As it happens, there's a webcomic with that as its theme:
>
> http://www.soulgeek.com/comics/zona/
You'll want to stay away from there for a while. Apparently it's been
hacked, and someone is using it to try and get control of people's
computers.
John Savard
Norm D. Plumber
>On 22/11/10 11:39 AM, John F. Eldredge wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 23:41:55 -0500, David DeLaney wrote:
>>
>>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm not sure if I've ever heard of a SMELL-oriented mage, as you
>> ask
>>>> later in the post.
>>>
>>> Um. Perhaps either among the perfume industry or cooking industry, or
>>> else a mage who's also a theriomorph, so that he/she spends time in
>>> animal form?
>>>
>>> Dave "not to mention Pepe le Pew" DeLaney
>>
>> Well, for that matter, there are a great many folk-tales involving magic
>> potions, most of which don't go into details about how the magic works.
>> Perhaps the scent produced is the mechanism?
>>
>
>Are you trying to undermine the basis of modern medicine and the
>foundation of that holy mission, the pharmaceutical industry? It is
>known that doctors give you potions - they may not always look like
>potions because they are sometimes contained in a capsule or they are
>dried (magically) and fed to you in the form of inconveniently large
>pills. You know these potions are magic because sometimes they cure you
>and sometimes they don't, depending on the magic power of the doctor.
Oddly enough, every time I take my car to the mechanic he can fix it
presuming that I can pony up the dough... from which one might
reasonably conclude that doctors still need to "practice".
>It's not the taste or smell of the potion; it's just a way of getting
>the magic into your body. You wouldn't want the doctor sticking his/her
>magic fingers into your body (also known as digital rectal examination).
When doctors become as reliable as my mechanic, maybe I'll consider
the possibility of letting one fix me should I feel broken... not that
it's likely I'll have the dough to pay that lot.
--
The world is as it is because if it wasn't, it would be as it is.
David Goldfarb
Paul Arthur <flower...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 2010-11-23, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>
>> I don't know how it worked, but in _The Jennifer Morgue_, there was
>> a magic violin (Was it in an earlier book?).
>
>original" it has a fairly obvious literary pedigree, and we learn a
>bit more about the instrument in _The Fuller Memorandum_.
It should of course have been "Zann" rather than "Zahn"; and Stross
chose to keep the reference consistent in _Fuller_.
--
David Goldfarb |"I came to Casablanca for the waters."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "The waters? What waters? We're in the desert."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |"I was misinformed."
Tina Hall
>> JimboCat<10313...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>>> Tina_H...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>>>> So now I wonder whether something like that's used anywhere.
>>>> Magic effects (one can do) tied to hearing specific songs.
>>
>>> Not yet mentioned (perhaps because it's not quite what you're
>>> asking for)
>>
>> That's ok. I've given up on hearing music sparking the magic.<g>
>>
>>> is the "magic" in Tolkien. It's not _always_ tied to
>>> song, but quite often it is.
>> [...]
>>
>> (And resigned to see so much singing rather than other music.)
> Practical reasons; in adventuring contexts (which is of course
> most of the writing -- few people write novels in which everyone
> sits around comfortably in their drawing rooms, except Regency
> romances and Victorian mysteries) you need to make music without
> being encumbered most of the time.
So, being tolerant about the answers not hitting the mark only
circles back to explanations rooted in story-content I can't stand.
(Bards and singing is just repelling already, never mind now
dragging in adventures.)
I think I'm going to insist on just heard music from now on. :P
--
Her eyes were nowhere near as friendly as the man's. [...]
"Don't look at her eyes, look at her-" The man frowned at the woman's
legs, then adressed her. "You should wear skirts, so I could show him."
-- Karja to Sil, Magic Earth 7/6
Quadibloc
> In article <slrniemgqh.54c.floweryson...@shasta.marwnad.com>,
> Paul Arthur <floweryson...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On 2010-11-23, Howard Brazee <how...@brazee.net> wrote:
>
> >> I don't know how it worked, but in _The Jennifer Morgue_, there was
> >> a magic violin (Was it in an earlier book?).
>
> >No, that was its first appearance. Being described as an "Erich Zahn
> >original" it has a fairly obvious literary pedigree, and we learn a
> >bit more about the instrument in _The Fuller Memorandum_.
>
> It should of course have been "Zann" rather than "Zahn"; and Stross
> chose to keep the reference consistent in _Fuller_.
Yes; Erich Zann is a character in Lovecraft, and Timothy Zahn is a
current best-selling author.
John Savard
Robert Carnegie
Is it anything like this?
<http://www.allmusicals.com/lyrics/piratesofpenzancethe/withcat-
liketreaduponourpreywesteal.htm>
(About twenty guys are cheerfully and lustily singing:)
With Cat-Like Tread
Upon our prey we steal
In silence dread
Our cautious way we feel
No sound at all
We never speak a word
A fly's foot-fall
Would be distinctly heard
(And then the chorus is particularly rousing...)
Walter Bushell
"Norm D. Plumber" <nom-de...@non.com> wrote:
> Oddly enough, every time I take my car to the mechanic he can fix it
> presuming that I can pony up the dough... from which one might
> reasonably conclude that doctors still need to "practice".
It's not called the practice of medicine for nothing. And an honest
mechanic will tell you sometimes that fixing the car is not economical.
--
The Chinese pretend their goods are good and we pretend our money
is good, or is it the reverse?
JimboCat
> >> Tina_H...@ftn.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>
> >>> So now I wonder whether something like that's used anywhere.
> >>> Magic effects (one can do) tied to hearing specific songs.
>
> >> Not yet mentioned (perhaps because it's not quite what you're
> >> asking for)
>
> > That's ok. I've given up on hearing music sparking the magic.<g>
>
> >> is the "magic" in Tolkien. It's not _always_ tied to
> >> song, but quite often it is.
> > [...]
>
> > (And resigned to see so much singing rather than other music.)
>
> Practical reasons; in adventuring contexts (which is of course most of
> the writing -- few people write novels in which everyone sits around
> comfortably in their drawing rooms, except Regency romances and
> Victorian mysteries) you need to make music without being encumbered
> most of the time. The choices of portable instruments that will survive
> the adventure is actually pretty limited (although you could always
Practical? Who needs practical?
The Dwarves in _The Hobbit_ chapter "An Unexpected Party" seem to be
travelling the Wild with clarinets, harps, drums, and "viols almost as
big as themselves"! After supper they just pop out onto the porch and
bring 'em in.
Of course, there's a First Age precedent: Fingon is tottering around
the unclimbable peaks around Thangorodrim searching for Maedhros, who
has been captured by Morgoth. Disenhartened, he sits down and
despondently . . . pulls out his golden harp, which he apparently
considers essential climbing gear, and begins to sing. Maedhros'
harmony and subsequent rescue is echoed by Frodo and Sam in Cirith
Ungol, but without the golden harp. Oh, and by Luthien and Beren, too,
when the latter is captured by Sauron.
Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
"What in the other world is the powers of the Valar or Eru acting
against Sauron, in Middle Earth appear as small coincidences, blunders
and mistakes, shifts in a persons mood, small things that gather and
change the world. A theology of errors." [John Swanson]
Robert Bannister
[muted applause]
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
Where the mechanics are in front of doctors is that they no longer
bother to repair cars. They simply pull out the defective part and
replace it with a new one. My ninety-nine year old mother would dearly
like that done with her arthritic hip, but they won't operate at her
age. Come to think of it, I'd like to add some more memory myself.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> I don't know how it worked, but in _The Jennifer Morgue_, there was a
> magic violin (Was it in an earlier book?).
>
Someone is going to remember "Sparky's Magic Piano" sooner or later.
--
Rob Bannister
William December Starr
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
> The choices of portable instruments that will survive the
> adventure is actually pretty limited (although you could always
> invent some magical alternative); the most obvious, though, is the
> musical instrument we are all born with, your voicebox. I'm a
> pretty good singer, and I can also do sound effects and make
> noises that don't sound like singing but are musical. Almost any
> other choice of instrument in such a context will require you to
> use at least one hand to play it and possibly both hands (and some
> are just Right Out barring Really Silly Magic, as in summoning a
> floating Concert Grand Piano to play during the battle).
One of the reasons I don't expect any movies to be based on Charles
Stross' Laundry books -- any reasonably faithful movies, anyway --
is the that the concept of Dominique "Mo" O'Brien as a combat
violinist works _so_ much better on paper than it ever would on
screen.
(It occurs to me, though, that ironically such a movie might have
_fewer_ minor continuity errors than the book it's based on... I
really wish Charlie would pay closer _attention_ to his own stories.)
-- wds
William December Starr
JimboCat <10313...@compuserve.com> said:
> Of course, there's a First Age precedent: Fingon is tottering
> around the unclimbable peaks around Thangorodrim searching for
> Maedhros, who has been captured by Morgoth. Disenhartened, he sits
> down and despondently . . . pulls out his golden harp, which he
> apparently considers essential climbing gear, and begins to sing.
And which Morgoth considers essential captured prisoner gear, it
would seem.
-- wds
Moriarty
> In article <icf8mv$rb...@news.eternal-september.org>,
Charlie has said (in this forum IIRC) that Bob Howard is an unreliable
narrator. I can't find a direct quote, but there is this:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.written/msg/b69fcc12ec8e9a24?hl=en&dmode=source
-Moriarty
William December Starr
Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com> said:
>> (It occurs to me, though, that ironically such a movie might have
>> _fewer_ minor continuity errors than the book it's based on... I
>> really wish Charlie [Stross] would pay closer _attention_ to his
>> own stories.)
>
> Charlie has said (in this forum IIRC) that Bob Howard is an
> unreliable narrator. I can't find a direct quote, but there is
> this:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.written/msg/b69fcc12ec8e9a24?hl=en&dmode=source
It's a decent excuse but... "unreliable" means things like
"misremembers things," or "talks about events he didn't actually
witness," or "sometimes lies." None of that covers things like
three cannibalistic cultists each eating one of the *two* strips of
meat that were cut from a victim. Nobody's that absent-minded when
writing a memoir, nobody who isn't also senile anyway. Stross just
has a weird habit of glitching up like that. (Yes, I know that Bob
flirted with brain damage towards the end of THE FULLER MEMORANDUM.
I am not letting Charlie off the hook because of that though, not
unless the _next_ book has Bob explicitly having trouble counting to
three.)
Or consider this non-spoily bit from THE FULLER MEMORANDUM at page
166:
It's a train, of course -- three carriages, all motorized. But
it's _tiny_. You could park it in my front hall. The roofs of
the carriages barely rise waist-high, and they sport external
handles. Handcart man shambles to the front carriage and hinges
the roof right up. Not even breaking a sweat, he begins to load
the files from his cart into a storage bin.
"Hey, what about" --I focus on the second carriage. It's got
wire mesh sides and what looks like a bench-- "me?"
Handcart man lifts a box of files out of the front carriage,
deposits it in his cart, and lowers the lid. Then he walks to
the second carriage, lifts the roof, and looks at me expectantly.
"I was afraid you were going to say that," I mutter, and climb
in. The wooden bench seat is about five centimeters above the
track bed, and I have to lean backwards as he drops the lid with
a clang. The carriage is only big enough for a single passenger.
It smells musty and dry, as if something died in here a long time
ago.
Turning my head sideways, I watch as handcart man walks over to
the big circuit breaker and yanks it down and up, down and up.
It must be some sort of trackside signal, because a moment later
I feel a motor vibrate under me, and the train starts to roll
forward. I make myself lie down; it'd be a really great start to
the mission to scrape my face off on the tunnel roof.
Did you see what happened there? From one paragraph to the next,
over the course of *less than a hundred words*, the carriage that our
narrator is riding in has gone from having a lid that clanged down
on top of him to being open-topped. That's not "unreliable
narrator," that's author fuck-up.
(Later, a cultists gets killed. Stross has their leader ordering an
underling to do X with the body; a bit later he's seen do Y with it,
and then much later other people find it where it would be if he'd
done X with it and not Y. Aargh.)
-- wds
David Goldfarb
William December Starr <wds...@panix.com> wrote:
>Did you see what happened there? From one paragraph to the next,
>over the course of *less than a hundred words*, the carriage that our
>narrator is riding in has gone from having a lid that clanged down
>on top of him to being open-topped. That's not "unreliable
>narrator," that's author fuck-up.
>
>(Later, a cultists gets killed. Stross has their leader ordering an
>underling to do X with the body; a bit later he's seen do Y with it,
>and then much later other people find it where it would be if he'd
>done X with it and not Y. Aargh.)
Are you on LiveJournal? If so, ask him to friend you and put you
on the crit filter. Then you can catch this sort of thing -- none
of the rest of us did.
(You could start with _The Apocalypse Codex_, in-progress.)
--
David Goldfarb |"As an experimental psychologist I have been
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu |trained not to believe anything unless it can be
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |demonstrated in the laboratory on rats or
|sophomores." -- Steven Pinker
Robert Carnegie
> In article <08899753-ff9d-465d-bc9d-f58907257...@g26g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
> JimboCat <103134.3...@compuserve.com> said:
>
> > Of course, there's a First Age precedent: Fingon is tottering
> > around the unclimbable peaks around Thangorodrim searching for
> > Maedhros, who has been captured by Morgoth. Disenhartened, he sits
> > down and despondently . . . pulls out his golden harp, which he
> > apparently considers essential climbing gear, and begins to sing.
>
> And which Morgoth considers essential captured prisoner gear, it
> would seem.
Or, there's something that hasn't been discussed about Elf anatomy.
Like, either they have a special cavity, or... hmm.
David McMillan
> But turn it off and then wait six months or a year and play it again,
> BANG, back comes the thrill.
>
> So for the character in question, the full emotional reaction is what
> brings out the full power. If it goes on repeat and starts to dull the
> association, the abilities gained from it fade slowly away too.
>
> But he could use the same piece again a year later.
Hm. Reminds me of an character written by someone I know. This
character had an extremely strong magical "metatalent," but its
expression was crippled for reasons unknown, such that:
1: His power is triggered by certain pieces of music
2: The music has to have a decent vocal/instrumental mix -- no Walter
John Williams, alas.
3: The *specific* power triggered is different for each song.
4: The song in question has to have really grabbed him the first time
he heard it.
5: The specific triggered power is based on the mental imagery that
was part of his first-ever reaction to said song -- he can't change it
later, he's stuck with it. And given his... quirky... imagination, some
of his song-triggered powers are idiosyncratic in the extreme....
6: The triggered power only lasts as long as the music.
7: He can't turn it on, or off. If he hears the right piece of
music... well, duck. Fortunately he hit upon a way to block the effect
by wearing a "hearing aid" that plays a continuous stream of purely
instrumental music at subliminal volume. The interference is enough to
keep his metatalent from latching onto any trigger songs unless/until he
<ahem> pulls the plug.
8: He can only use a given song once every 24hrs... but his internal
"clock" resets at local midnight, which lends weight to the theory that
the idiosyncratic limitations of his power are psychological rather than
physiological.
W. Citoan
Unrelated, but your mention of a combat violinist made me think of it:
The movie "Kung Fu Hustle" has a pair of assassins that use a guqin (a
plucked seven-string Chinese musical instrument) whose notes create
magical attacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5SCihtqwxY
- W. Citoan
--
These are the times that try men's souls.
-- Thomas Paine
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> In article<icf8mv$rbn$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
>
>> The choices of portable instruments that will survive the
>> adventure is actually pretty limited (although you could always
>> invent some magical alternative); the most obvious, though, is the
>> musical instrument we are all born with, your voicebox. I'm a
>> pretty good singer, and I can also do sound effects and make
>> noises that don't sound like singing but are musical. Almost any
>> other choice of instrument in such a context will require you to
>> use at least one hand to play it and possibly both hands (and some
>> are just Right Out barring Really Silly Magic, as in summoning a
>> floating Concert Grand Piano to play during the battle).
>
> One of the reasons I don't expect any movies to be based on Charles
> Stross' Laundry books -- any reasonably faithful movies, anyway --
> is the that the concept of Dominique "Mo" O'Brien as a combat
> violinist works _so_ much better on paper than it ever would on
> screen.
"The Violinist of Hamelin"?
I'm sure any good HKAT director, or anime house, could do that easy.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> On 11/22/2010 10:20 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>
>> But turn it off and then wait six months or a year and play it again,
>> BANG, back comes the thrill.
>>
>> So for the character in question, the full emotional reaction is what
>> brings out the full power. If it goes on repeat and starts to dull the
>> association, the abilities gained from it fade slowly away too.
>>
>> But he could use the same piece again a year later.
>
> Hm. Reminds me of an character written by someone I know. This character
> had an extremely strong magical "metatalent," but its expression was
> crippled for reasons unknown, such that:
> 1: His power is triggered by certain pieces of music
> 2: The music has to have a decent vocal/instrumental mix -- no Walter
> John Williams, alas.
I think you mean just John Williams, not Walter John.
> 3: The *specific* power triggered is different for each song.
> 4: The song in question has to have really grabbed him the first time he
> heard it.
> 5: The specific triggered power is based on the mental imagery that was
> part of his first-ever reaction to said song -- he can't change it
> later, he's stuck with it. And given his... quirky... imagination, some
> of his song-triggered powers are idiosyncratic in the extreme....
> 6: The triggered power only lasts as long as the music.
> 7: He can't turn it on, or off. If he hears the right piece of music...
> well, duck. Fortunately he hit upon a way to block the effect by wearing
> a "hearing aid" that plays a continuous stream of purely instrumental
> music at subliminal volume. The interference is enough to keep his
> metatalent from latching onto any trigger songs unless/until he <ahem>
> pulls the plug.
> 8: He can only use a given song once every 24hrs... but his internal
> "clock" resets at local midnight, which lends weight to the theory that
> the idiosyncratic limitations of his power are psychological rather than
> physiological.
>
>
Somewhat similar, although it's the strongest association (not
necessarily the first) that dominates, he can use the powers that he
gets as he wishes (i.e., if he gets super-strength he doesn't HAVE to
crush everything he sees, but he CAN), and it doesn't matter what kind
of music it is. He's more likely to be triggered by instrumental.
So I envision him in battle with an iPod on "shuffle" and a very large
selection of songs. Because of the "get accustomed" effect he couldn't
have limited playlists. OTOH, it's a crapshoot when he gets into combat
as to what powers he gets.
David McMillan
> On 11/23/10 3:35 PM, David McMillan wrote:
>> On 11/22/2010 10:20 AM, Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>>
>>> But turn it off and then wait six months or a year and play it again,
>>> BANG, back comes the thrill.
>>>
>>> So for the character in question, the full emotional reaction is what
>>> brings out the full power. If it goes on repeat and starts to dull the
>>> association, the abilities gained from it fade slowly away too.
>>>
>>> But he could use the same piece again a year later.
>>
>> Hm. Reminds me of an character written by someone I know. This character
>> had an extremely strong magical "metatalent," but its expression was
>> crippled for reasons unknown, such that:
>> 1: His power is triggered by certain pieces of music
>> 2: The music has to have a decent vocal/instrumental mix -- no Walter
>> John Williams, alas.
>
> I think you mean just John Williams, not Walter John.
<facepalm> That's what I get for posting while distracted.
>> 3: The *specific* power triggered is different for each song.
>> 4: The song in question has to have really grabbed him the first time he
>> heard it.
>> 5: The specific triggered power is based on the mental imagery that was
>> part of his first-ever reaction to said song -- he can't change it
>> later, he's stuck with it. And given his... quirky... imagination, some
>> of his song-triggered powers are idiosyncratic in the extreme....
>> 6: The triggered power only lasts as long as the music.
>> 7: He can't turn it on, or off. If he hears the right piece of music...
>> well, duck. Fortunately he hit upon a way to block the effect by wearing
>> a "hearing aid" that plays a continuous stream of purely instrumental
>> music at subliminal volume. The interference is enough to keep his
>> metatalent from latching onto any trigger songs unless/until he <ahem>
>> pulls the plug.
>> 8: He can only use a given song once every 24hrs... but his internal
>> "clock" resets at local midnight, which lends weight to the theory that
>> the idiosyncratic limitations of his power are psychological rather than
>> physiological.
>>
>>
>
> Somewhat similar, although it's the strongest association (not
> necessarily the first) that dominates, he can use the powers that he
> gets as he wishes (i.e., if he gets super-strength he doesn't HAVE to
> crush everything he sees, but he CAN), and it doesn't matter what kind
> of music it is. He's more likely to be triggered by instrumental.
Oh, this character can control *what* he does *with* the powers he
gets, mostly -- there *are* certain unavoidable effects, but those a
pretty rare. He just can't prevent his powers from being triggered
without using interference or induced deafness.
> So I envision him in battle with an iPod on "shuffle" and a very large
> selection of songs. Because of the "get accustomed" effect he couldn't
> have limited playlists. OTOH, it's a crapshoot when he gets into combat
> as to what powers he gets.
Voice-activated motorcycle helmet computer with a ginormous MP3
collection, in this guy's case. With some interesting options, like
playing different music over the external speakers than the internal
ones (the helmet is *really* good at blocking out external sound on cue,
for obvious reasons) to keep familiar nemeses from anticipating his next
move.
none Chuk Goodin
>Stross' Laundry books -- any reasonably faithful movies, anyway --
>is the that the concept of Dominique "Mo" O'Brien as a combat
>violinist works _so_ much better on paper than it ever would on
>screen.
It is pretty hard to score a film when the music makes you insane or
just plain kills you.
--
chuk
(formerly cgo...@sfu.ca)
Quadibloc
> It is pretty hard to score a film when the music makes you insane or
> just plain kills you.
True, although some of what passes for music these days comes close.
John Savard
Robert Bannister
[applause]
--
Rob Bannister
tphile
> William December Starr wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
Roy Orbison (yes that one) has a loaded guitar in
The Fastest Guitar Alive. You gotta see that one to believe it.
Batman tv show had Jo Collins as The Siren and Van Johnson as The
Minstrel.
and one of my favorite scenes in ZULU is when the soldiers sing Men of
Harlech as
the Zulu warrior charge them. Never fails to get the blood pumping.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
These days? Plenty of the older stuff will do that, too. The Beatles
damn near did it to me.
Robert A. Woodward
<slrnieqenn....@wcitoan-via.eternal-september.org>,
"W. Citoan" <wci...@NOSPAM-yahoo.com> wrote:
A Poul Anderson story from the early 1950s had a set of bag pipes
with a very destructive attack (can't remember how magical it was).
--
Robert Woodward <robe...@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>
Quadibloc
> On Nov 19, 4:50 pm, Quadibloc <jsav...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
>
> > As it happens, there's a webcomic with that as its theme:
>
> >http://www.soulgeek.com/comics/zona/
>
> You'll want to stay away from there for a while. Apparently it's been
> hacked, and someone is using it to try and get control of people's
> computers.
This has been fixed. Tue to the Thanksgiving holiday in the United
States, the next new page will be available on Tuesday, but there are
many pages already there to catch up on.
John Savard
Norm D. Plumber
>A Poul Anderson story from the early 1950s had a set of bag pipes
>with a very destructive attack (can't remember how magical it was).
Bagpipes, accordion, they should both be considered weapons of mass
destruction, no magic required.
--
The world is as it is because if it wasn't, it would be as it is.
Norm D. Plumber
>On 11/24/10 8:14 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
>> On 25/11/10 8:00 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>> On Nov 24, 3:05 pm, chuk@opal.(none) (Chuk Goodin) wrote:
>>>
>>>> It is pretty hard to score a film when the music makes you insane or
>>>> just plain kills you.
>>>
>>> True, although some of what passes for music these days comes close.
>>
>> [applause]
>>
>
> These days? Plenty of the older stuff will do that, too. The Beatles
>damn near did it to me.
Yep, they sucked. But there was so much totally crap music during the
period between Buddy Holly and what I think of as the Jimi/Janis era
that the beatles were actually better than most of the competition for
a while. Remember Lesley Gore's "It's My Party"[1]? <shudder>
[1] Even the "little nash rambler" song and "flying purple people
eater" were better than that one.
Robert Carnegie
What about the music for super-hearing, or for super-immunity to
sound? I figure I've got your guy there.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/10 8:14 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>> On 25/11/10 8:00 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> On Nov 24, 3:05 pm, chuk@opal.(none) (Chuk Goodin) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It is pretty hard to score a film when the music makes you insane or
>>>>> just plain kills you.
>>>>
>>>> True, although some of what passes for music these days comes close.
>>>
>>> [applause]
>>>
>>
>> These days? Plenty of the older stuff will do that, too. The Beatles
>> damn near did it to me.
>
> Yep, they sucked. But there was so much totally crap music during the
> period between Buddy Holly and what I think of as the Jimi/Janis era
> that the beatles were actually better than most of the competition for
You imply that the two/three you bracket the era with were better.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> What about the music for super-hearing, or for super-immunity to
> sound? I figure I've got your guy there.
"The Sound of Silence".
Norm D. Plumber
>On 11/25/10 4:49 AM, Norm D. Plumber wrote:
>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/24/10 8:14 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>>> On 25/11/10 8:00 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 24, 3:05 pm, chuk@opal.(none) (Chuk Goodin) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It is pretty hard to score a film when the music makes you insane or
>>>>>> just plain kills you.
>>>>>
>>>>> True, although some of what passes for music these days comes close.
>>>>
>>>> [applause]
>>>>
>>>
>>> These days? Plenty of the older stuff will do that, too. The Beatles
>>> damn near did it to me.
>>
>> Yep, they sucked. But there was so much totally crap music during the
>> period between Buddy Holly and what I think of as the Jimi/Janis era
>> that the beatles were actually better than most of the competition for
>
> You imply that the two/three you bracket the era with were better.
Yep, even Buddy Holly was better than the Beatles. Hell, a dog
singing to an accordion with a bagpipe backup would be better than the
Beatles. Taste in music varies, huh?
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> On 11/25/10 4:49 AM, Norm D. Plumber wrote:
>>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"<sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/24/10 8:14 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
>>>>> On 25/11/10 8:00 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>>> On Nov 24, 3:05 pm, chuk@opal.(none) (Chuk Goodin) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is pretty hard to score a film when the music makes you insane or
>>>>>>> just plain kills you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> True, although some of what passes for music these days comes close.
>>>>>
>>>>> [applause]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> These days? Plenty of the older stuff will do that, too. The Beatles
>>>> damn near did it to me.
>>>
>>> Yep, they sucked. But there was so much totally crap music during the
>>> period between Buddy Holly and what I think of as the Jimi/Janis era
>>> that the beatles were actually better than most of the competition for
>>
>> You imply that the two/three you bracket the era with were better.
>
> Yep, even Buddy Holly was better than the Beatles. Hell, a dog
> singing to an accordion with a bagpipe backup would be better than the
> Beatles. Taste in music varies, huh?
>
I like bagpipes.
Quadibloc
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> >On 11/24/10 8:14 PM, Robert Bannister wrote:
> >> On 25/11/10 8:00 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
> >>> On Nov 24, 3:05 pm, chuk@opal.(none) (Chuk Goodin) wrote:
>
> >>>> It is pretty hard to score a film when the music makes you insane or
> >>>> just plain kills you.
>
> >>> True, although some of what passes for music these days comes close.
>
> >> [applause]
>
> > These days? Plenty of the older stuff will do that, too. The Beatles
> >damn near did it to me.
>
> Yep, they sucked. But there was so much totally crap music during the
> period between Buddy Holly and what I think of as the Jimi/Janis era
> that the beatles were actually better than most of the competition for
> a while. Remember Lesley Gore's "It's My Party"[1]? <shudder>
I found Lesley Gore's "You Don't Own Me" blessed relief from "I Want
to Hold Your Hand" and "She Loves You, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah". On the other
hand, later on, the Beatles did record quite a bit of real music.
"Michelle" and "Yesterday" are just two obvious examples which come to
mind offhand.
John Savard
Robert Bannister
> "Robert A. Woodward"<robe...@drizzle.com> wrote:
>
>> A Poul Anderson story from the early 1950s had a set of bag pipes
>> with a very destructive attack (can't remember how magical it was).
>
> Bagpipes, accordion, they should both be considered weapons of mass
> destruction, no magic required.
>
They certainly need to be treated with care. My accordion has given me a
form of tennis elbow that is quite painful. Imagine what it does to
other people who innocently listen to my "playing".
--
Rob Bannister
who sometimes admits to an association
with Morris dancing
Robert Bannister
It's a pity that music came to a total stop round about 1985.
Of course, it is well-known the music you liked (even the music you
could only just bear) before the age of about 35 is the music that will
stay with you the rest of your life. Worse: the music you heard most
before the age of 20, whether you liked it or not, will stick with you
even harder to the point where you find yourself, if not actually liking
it, accidentally whistling, humming or thinking it.
--
Rob Bannister
William December Starr
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) said:
> Are you on LiveJournal? If so, ask him to friend you and put you
> on the crit filter. Then you can catch this sort of thing -- none
> of the rest of us did.
>
> (You could start with _The Apocalypse Codex_, in-progress.)
1. I'm on LiveJournal, but only so that I could read other people's
LJs and have an avatar photo; I don't have a blog there or elsewhere.
2. Hmm, I'm not sure I _want_ to see a work in progress, rather than
being able to discover the final product as a brand-shiny-new thing.
But I've got to say, I'm amazed that people besides Stross looked at
THE FULLER MEMORANDUM text in progress and _nobody_ saw the various
continuity glitches (Hey Charlie, are Bob's hands handcuffed in
front of him or behind his back?). I mean, I'm not one of those
people who reads with near-autistic attention to details like that,
but these positively *leaped* out at me. Am I the only one who at
least partially visualizes the action when reading a book?
-- wds
William December Starr
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> said:
> William December Starr wrote:
>
>> One of the reasons I don't expect any movies to be based on
>> Charles Stross' Laundry books -- any reasonably faithful movies,
>> anyway -- is the that the concept of Dominique "Mo" O'Brien as a
>> combat violinist works _so_ much better on paper than it ever
>> would on screen.
>
> "The Violinist of Hamelin"?
If you're talking about changing the Pied Piper to a violinist,
there's one big difference: the Pied Violinist would only have to be
seen playing and walking at the head of the crowd of people he was
leading; that's not really very combative. Mo uses her violin as an
attack weapon (as well as as a repulsor on occasion, iirc). It has
a sticker on it that says THIS MACHINE KILLS DEMONS and it's not
hyperbole. Basically, she'd have to look like a guy charging the
enemy with an M-16, except with a violin on her chin and a bow in
her hand. I can't help but think that if presented visually, rather
than in prose, it'd just be _silly_.
-- wds