Purple's name....
Darrell M. Crosgrove
Flying Sorcerers". I could never come up with anything other than possibly
"Marvin", but I couldn't figure out how "as a" would correlate to "in".
Today, while in the shower, I thought, "Check Deja News! Surely you are not the
only person with this question." I then found three scant articles which fit my
search. One of them gave no clue other than someone else had guessed "Murry"
and was amused when he found out the truth. The other two articles both spoke
about Issac Asimov's name, while also mentioning, IMHO, in a totally unrelated
way, Purple's name. One of the articles was talking about where to stress
Asimov's name.
I was totally confused.
What the hell did these two things have to do with each other???
Then while reading the article talking about the pronunciation of Asimov's
name, and actually pronouncing it to myself while stressing the syllables
slowly, the lights came on.
Have then been any better (obscure yet obvious as all hell) references in any
other SF?
Dorothy J Heydt
Darrell M. Crosgrove <cros...@earthlink.net> wrote:
.....
>about Issac Asimov's name, while also mentioning, IMHO, in a totally unrelated
Isaac.
>Have then been any better (obscure yet obvious as all hell) references in any
>other SF?
Wellll, you do know that _Flying Sorcerers_ is full of such
references?
Then there are the Benedict Breadfruit stories of Randall
Garrett.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
http://www.kithrup.com/~djheydt
>
>
>
Danny Sichel
>>Have then been any better (obscure yet obvious as all hell) references in any
>>other SF?
> Wellll, you do know that _Flying Sorcerers_ is full of such
> references?
> Then there are the Benedict Breadfruit stories of Randall Garrett.
Not familiar with those, but have you seen all the references in
Garrett's Lord Darcy stories?
Christopher K Davis
> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> Then there are the Benedict Breadfruit stories of Randall Garrett.
> Not familiar with those, but have you seen all the references in
> Garrett's Lord Darcy stories?
Dorothy might have. Ahasuerus probably has. Most of the rest of us,
being mere mortals, are lucky to get half of 'em.
--
Christopher Davis * <ckd...@ckdhr.com> * <URL:http://www.ckdhr.com/ckd/>
Put location information in your DNS! <URL:http://www.ckdhr.com/dns-loc/>
Dorothy J Heydt
Christopher K Davis <ckd-...@ckdhr.com> wrote:
>
>> Not familiar with those, but have you seen all the references in
>> Garrett's Lord Darcy stories?
>
>Dorothy might have. Ahasuerus probably has. Most of the rest of us,
>being mere mortals, are lucky to get half of 'em.
Here I'm going to list all the secret names in the Lord Darcy stories
that I can think of.
Lord Darcy's cousin, the Marquis of London, is by physiology and
temperament Rex Stout's Nero Wolfe. The Marquis's agent, Lord
Bontriomphe, is Archie Goodwin (ignoring the fact that "Goodwin"
actually means "good friend"). His seneschal, Sir Frederique Bruleur,
is Wolfe's cook Fritz Brenner. (To really appreciate the Wolfe/London
connection you have to have read a pair of treatises by William S.
Baring-Gould in which he assumes that Nero Wolfe is the wild oat
of Sherlock Holmes and Irene Adler [which would explain why Wolfe
looks so much like Mycroft], and Wolfe's boyhood friend Marko
Vukcic is the other wild oat, Wolfe's brother; and that Archie
Goodwin is *Marko*'s unacknowledged wild oat, making Wolfe his
uncle. Now remember that Darcy is the Marquis's cousin, which
explains how Darcy is as near like Sherlock Holmes as makes no
difference.)
Garrett's friend Michael Kurland (who later wrote a couple of
Lord Darcy pastiches) appears a couple of times. (You must now
understand that in the mid-1960s Randall and some of his buddies,
mostly members of the newly-fledged Society for Creative Anachronism,
played the Sheriff of Nottingham and his henchmen for the Northern
California Renaissance Faire. They wore black garments edged with
silver, and little yellow pig badges, except for Kurland, who was
the Sergeant-Major and wore mostly red. [He was the one who was
generally ordered to round up the usual suspects.] Most of these
guys were also ex-spooks [as in, military espionage].) Kurland
appears as Sergeant-at-Arms Michael Coeur-Terre in _Too Many
Magicians_; but his chief appearance is in "A Case of Identity"
wherein the Marquise of Rouen, worried about her missing husband,
is perversely drinking herself into a stupor on the best brandy,
the St. Courlande-Michele. (The tale is told that when Michael
first read it he was in bed with some lady in Hawaii. He started
laughing so hard he damn near fell out of bed. "What's the
matter?" "I'M A BRANDY!!")
Another guy from the Sheriff's Men was the late Tom (or T. A.)
Waters, who was among other things a very good stage magician.
Randall turned him into Sir Thomas Leseaux, Th.D., a *theoretical*
magician who studies the principles that lie behind the Art, though
he can't cast spells because he doesn't have the magical Talent.
Neither did Tom, of course.
In Michael Kurland's _The Unicorn Girl_ his dimension-hopping characters
(himself, Tom Waters, and Chester Anderson [whom I never met] get
into Lord Darcy's universe and meet Lord Gart, who is Randall to
the life, and also they meet Sir Thomas Leseaux. Yes, Waters meets
Leseaux and neither of them notices anything strange about it.
The murder victim in _Too Many Magicians_ is one Master Sir James
Zwinge. James Zwinge is another professional magician.. He's known
onstage as "The Amazing Randi"--the one who goes around debunking
fake psychics.
Continuing with _Too Many Magicians,_ Sir Thomas's girlfriend is a
Polish refugee named Tia Einzig. (German "einzig" means "single,
solitary.") She has been worried about her uncle, Neapeler Einzig,
whom she thought to be a prisoner of the Polish government, till
she learns that he has escaped and is safe. She gets this news
from a visitor whose clothing shows he is a Manxman. His name
is Colin MacDavid. Now consider that the name "Neapeler", "man
from Naples," suggests the name "Napoleone," "lion of Naples,"
and you realize that Tia's relative Neapeler Einzig is Napoleon
Solo, her Uncle from Man.
Though it's not on the same level, "Olga Polovski the Beautiful Spy"
(in "The Ipswitch Phial") is the title of a song Randall knew.
Poul Anderson apparently knows it too and I must ask him sometime.
That's all I know so far. Updates deeply appreciated.
Margaret Dean
<snip!>
> Continuing with _Too Many Magicians,_ Sir Thomas's girlfriend is a
> Polish refugee named Tia Einzig. (German "einzig" means "single,
> solitary.") She has been worried about her uncle, Neapeler Einzig,
> whom she thought to be a prisoner of the Polish government, till
> she learns that he has escaped and is safe. She gets this news
> from a visitor whose clothing shows he is a Manxman. His name
> is Colin MacDavid. Now consider that the name "Neapeler", "man
> from Naples," suggests the name "Napoleone," "lion of Naples,"
> and you realize that Tia's relative Neapeler Einzig is Napoleon
> Solo, her Uncle from Man.
"Tia" also means "aunt" in Spanish.
> That's all I know so far. Updates deeply appreciated.
The one I remember is the special agent James le Lien: "Lien" is "Bond"
in French, so of course . . .
--Margaret Dean
<marg...@erols.com>
Richard Michael Todd
>
> Here I'm going to list all the secret names in the Lord Darcy stories
> that I can think of.
I'm not sure it counts as all that "secret" a name, but one of my favorite
wizards in the Darcy books was always Sir Lyon Gandolphus Grey. I mean, who
better to appear as a guest star in a fantasy novel than Gandalf the Grey?
Fred Galvin
> Darrell M. Crosgrove <cros...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> .....
> >about Issac Asimov's name, while also mentioning, IMHO, in a totally
> > unrelated
> Isaac.
> .....
SF trivia puzzle: the cover of which issue of what magazine proclaimed a
story "By ISSAAC ASIMOV"?
Steve Patterson
>
[a bunch of references in the Lord D'Arcy novels, most of which I didn't
get; thanks!]
The one that stopped me with delighted laughter was Sir Edward Elmer, ThD,
the inventor of the spell which made the broaches for King's Messengers
forgery-proof and active only for the intended bearer: a nod to Edward
Elmer (Doc) Smith's _Lensmen_ series.
But there *must* be others.
--
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Note: My "from:" address has been altered to foil mailbots.
Remove the "no_spam_" to get in touch with me by email.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Steven J. Patterson no_spam_s...@wwdc.com
"Men may move mountains, but ideas move men."
-- M.N. Vorkosigan, per L.M. Bujold
See my refurbished webpage! http://www.wwdc.com/~spatterson
Dorothy J Heydt
Steve Patterson <no_spam_s...@wwdc.com> wrote:
>In article <FA78s...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
>The one that stopped me with delighted laughter was Sir Edward Elmer, ThD,
>the inventor of the spell which made the broaches for King's Messengers
>forgery-proof and active only for the intended bearer: a nod to Edward
>Elmer (Doc) Smith's _Lensmen_ series.
Oh, right; I knew about Master Sir Edward, but I'd forgotten to
list him. Thanks!
Andrew Plotkin
> In article <FA78s...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
> >
> get; thanks!]
> The one that stopped me with delighted laughter was Sir Edward Elmer, ThD,
> the inventor of the spell which made the broaches for King's Messengers
> forgery-proof and active only for the intended bearer: a nod to Edward
> Elmer (Doc) Smith's _Lensmen_ series.
And I didn't get it, even after reading the Lensmen books, until my father
rubbed my nose in it. Boy I felt dumb.
> But there *must* be others.
Dorothy's list skipped the Von Horst / Shea youth spell. (Oliver Wendell
Holmes poem, the Wonderful One-Horse Shay. I have to mention that one,
frequently, because I *did* figure it out myself.)
--Z
--
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the
borogoves..."
Dorothy J Heydt
Richard Michael Todd <rmt...@intrepid.ecn.ou.edu> wrote:
>
>I'm not sure it counts as all that "secret" a name, but one of my favorite
>wizards in the Darcy books was always Sir Lyon Gandolphus Grey. I mean, who
>better to appear as a guest star in a fantasy novel than Gandalf the Grey?
Particularly when the *form* of the name is so close to Lymond
(sp?) Sprague de Camp.
Keep 'em coming, people, I'll update the file....
Dorothy J Heydt
Um... but she isn't an aunt, she's a niece.
>
>The one I remember is the special agent James le Lien: "Lien" is "Bond"
>in French, so of course . . .
OH HECKO! I didn't know that one!!!
(save to file.....)
Darrell M. Crosgrove
>In article <37148ee1....@news.earthlink.net>,
>Darrell M. Crosgrove <cros...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>.....
>>about Issac Asimov's name, while also mentioning, IMHO, in a totally unrelated
> Isaac.
>
>>Have then been any better (obscure yet obvious as all hell) references in any
>>other SF?
>
>Wellll, you do know that _Flying Sorcerers_ is full of such
>references?
>
Actually, no. I don't doubt there are some others, but this one was so damned
good because we all _knew_ it was some kind of joke or pun, but none of my
friends or I figured it out.
For over 20 years I tried to get it...
2 thumbs up!
Joseph Hertzlinger
experts).
Richard Harter
>There was the Kaplan--Sheinwold test (named after a couple of bridge
>experts).
There were a lot of bridge puns, e.g., the Jacoby transfer that required
two hearts.
Richard Harter, c...@tiac.net, The Concord Research Institute
URL = http://www.tiac.net/users/cri, phone = 1-978-369-3911
What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers?
Mechanical Engineers build weapons, Civil Engineers build targets.
Dave Weingart
>Have then been any better (obscure yet obvious as all hell) references in any
>other SF?
Cordwainer Smith used Meeya Meefla (I forget his exact spelling). And
one evening, lying in bed, I realized that it was more commonly spelled
as "Miami, Fla"
--
73 de Dave Weingart KA2ESK Powerpuff Nerds. Saving the
mailto:phyd...@liii.com Net before bedtime
http://www.liii.com/~phydeaux
Dorothy J Heydt
Joseph Hertzlinger <jher...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>There was the Kaplan--Sheinwold test (named after a couple of bridge
>experts).
I would never have known about that. Thanks. (I didn't know
Randall ever played bridge, either, but he must've.)
Dorothy J Heydt
I *thought* we'd seen this discussion recently. Like, two months
ago. Here's what was posted (I have, however, corrected a few
typos):
------------------------------include--------------------
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Message-ID: <36C2720E...@erols.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:01:13 -0500
From: Curt <eskr...@erols.com>
Reply-To: eskr...@mad.scientist.com
Organization: Department of Redundancy Department
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC)
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written
Subject: Flying Sorcerers God List
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Status: R
I finally found this in a post on Deja
News. I posted this 5 or 6 years ago
and located in someone else's quote in
a similar thread.
I finally filled in the last hole with the
help of a post of Dorothy Heydt (thanks).
SP'NEE had been the only one I couldn't
get.
Curt
_____________________________________
This is a list of the minor gods and deities from
Niven & Gerrold's Flying Sorcerers. I copied this out of
a copy of the Comic Buyers Guide in the late 70's.
Starred (*) entries are my additions where none were
available:
protagonist- LIKE A PURPLE SHADE OF GREY
(AS A MAUVE)- Isaac Asimov
Wind- MUSK-WATZ- Sam Moskawitz
Thunder- ELCIN- Harlan Ellison
Tides & Map Makers- N'VEEN- Larry Niven
Sheep- ROTN'BAIR- Gene Roddenberry
Magic- LEEB- Fritz Leiber
Blue-white sun- OUWELLS- H G Wells
Mud Creatures- NILS'N- Neilsen (ratings?)
River- FILO MAR- Philip Jose Farmer
Red Sun- VIRN- Jules Verne
Past- BRAD- Ray Bradbury
Future- KRONK- Groff Conklin
Decay- PO- Edgar Allen Poe
Skys & Seas- KLARTHER- Arthur C Clarke
Distortion- FOL- Frederick Pohl*
Birds- HITCH- Alfred Hitchcock
Violence- BLOK- Robert Bloch
Slime- SP'NEE- Norman Spinrad**
Names- TUKKER- Wilson Tucker
Dragons- CAFF- Anne McCafferey
What-If- YAKE- Eiler Jakobssen
Fasf- FURMAN- Ed Ferman (sometime editor of F&SF)
Fertility- POUP- Jerry Pournelle*
Duels- PULL'NISSEN- Poul Anderson
Love- TIS'TURZHIN- Theodore Sturgeon
Please excuse any misspellings since I am trying to
read my fifteen year-old handwriting twenty some
years later.
Curt
---------------------------------------------------------
Louann Miller
> [a bunch of references in the Lord D'Arcy novels, most of which I didn't
> get; thanks!]
> But there *must* be others.
Has anyone mentioned Sir James Zwinge, the murder victim in "Too Many
Magicians" who was both a spymaster and responsible for keeping other
magicians honest? Compare James Randall Zwinge, aka stage magician and
fraudbuster The Amazing Randi.
Joseph Major
: In article <yl6k8ve...@intrepid.ecn.ou.edu>,
: Richard Michael Todd <rmt...@intrepid.ecn.ou.edu> wrote:
: >
: >I'm not sure it counts as all that "secret" a name, but one of my favorite
: >wizards in the Darcy books was always Sir Lyon Gandolphus Grey. I mean, who
: >better to appear as a guest star in a fantasy novel than Gandalf the Grey?
: Particularly when the *form* of the name is so close to Lymond
: (sp?) Sprague de Camp.
Lyon Sprague de Camp. The character even looks like him.
Joseph T Major
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Yrlsqb nx sobshuggum illingoon. Mark my words!"
-- Cyril Q. Kornbluth
--
Jon Meltzer
in "The Napoli Express". I suspect other detectives are on that train
...
Danny Sichel
> There's also "Father Armand Braun" and "Cesare Sarto" (Hercule Poirot)
> in "The Napoli Express".
Uh?
Why "Cesare Sarto" => "Hercule Poirot"?
Dorothy J Heydt
Louann Miller <lou...@mail.smu.edu> wrote:
>
>Has anyone mentioned Sir James Zwinge, the murder victim in "Too Many
>Magicians" who was both a spymaster and responsible for keeping other
>magicians honest? Compare James Randall Zwinge, aka stage magician and
>fraudbuster The Amazing Randi.
Yes, he's on my list.
Dorothy J Heydt
>Dorothy J Heydt (djh...@kithrup.com) wrote:
>
> Lyon Sprague de Camp. The character even looks like him.
Even better.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jon Meltzer <jmel...@pobox.com> wrote:
>There's also "Father Armand Braun" and "Cesare Sarto" (Hercule Poirot)
Mmmm, okay, Father Brown. (I don't think Chesterton ever told us
the good Father's Christian name, so there's no problem there.)
Who's Cesare Sarto? Englished it would be Caesar Taylor. Is
there some linguistic connection I'm missing between "Cesare
Sarto" and "Hercule Poirot"?
Neat idea, though, I'll reread the Napoli Expres and see if I
recognize anybody else.
Martin D. Pay
<ckd-...@ckdhr.com> wrote:
>Danny Sichel <eds...@umoncton.ca> writes:
>
>> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> Then there are the Benedict Breadfruit stories of Randall Garrett.
>
>> Not familiar with those, but have you seen all the references in
>> Garrett's Lord Darcy stories?
>
>Dorothy might have. Ahasuerus probably has. Most of the rest of us,
>being mere mortals, are lucky to get half of 'em.
The Marquis of London and Lord Bontriomphe - Nero Wolfe and
Archie Goodwin. 'Bon triomphe' of course is French for 'good
win'... ^_^
Martin D. Pay
A Rex Stout fan, doncha know...
Del Cotter
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>Continuing with _Too Many Magicians,_ Sir Thomas's girlfriend is a
>Polish refugee named Tia Einzig. (German "einzig" means "single,
>solitary.") She has been worried about her uncle, Neapeler Einzig,
>whom she thought to be a prisoner of the Polish government, till
>she learns that he has escaped and is safe. She gets this news
>from a visitor whose clothing shows he is a Manxman. His name
>is Colin MacDavid. Now consider that the name "Neapeler", "man
>from Naples," suggests the name "Napoleone," "lion of Naples,"
>and you realize that Tia's relative Neapeler Einzig is Napoleon
>Solo, her Uncle from Man.
Ought Garrett not to have called the man *Calum* MacDavid, then?
--
Del Cotter d...@branta.demon.co.uk
THIS IS THE INFORMATION AGE, DAMMIT!!! I DEMAND INSTANT GRATIFICATION!!!
-- Mike Powers
Dan Swartzendruber
> In article <7f3pos$7...@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>,
> Joseph Hertzlinger <jher...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >There was the Kaplan--Sheinwold test (named after a couple of bridge
> >experts).
>
> I would never have known about that. Thanks. (I didn't know
> Randall ever played bridge, either, but he must've.)
There are a couple of these in the one book. When I first read it many
years ago, I didn't play bridge, so it went right over my head. I reread
the series 10 years or so ago, when I did know, and cracked up. Another
bridge line is where they are trying to identify the dead man in the
Marquis of Cherbourg case. Someone asks if they can use the Jacoby
Transfer, and is told "No. That requires two living hearts!"
Dan Swartzendruber
> In article <7f3pos$7...@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>,
> Joseph Hertzlinger <jher...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >There was the Kaplan--Sheinwold test (named after a couple of bridge
> >experts).
>
> I would never have known about that. Thanks. (I didn't know
> Randall ever played bridge, either, but he must've.)
Same Cherbourg case. Sean informs Darcy that the victim wasn't killed by
a Short Club.
Mike Andrews
: In article <FA7sy...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
The chef in the household of the Marquis of London is
"Frederique Bruleur" == "Frederick Burner" == "Fritz Brenner",
isomorphic (modulo translation) to the chef in the household
of Nero Wolfe.
--
Mike Andrews | speaking for himself
MAnd...@odot.org (when it works) | posting work-related
else mand...@notes9a.okladot.state.ok.us | during work hours
Currently doing time as datacenter director | IAW ODOT policy
Christopher K Davis
> She gets this news from a visitor whose clothing shows he is a Manxman.
> His name is Colin MacDavid. Now consider that the name "Neapeler",
> "man from Naples," suggests the name "Napoleone," "lion of Naples," and
> you realize that Tia's relative Neapeler Einzig is Napoleon Solo, her
> Uncle from Man.
And Colin MacDavid has nothing, nothing to do with David McCallum who
played Illya Kuryakin. Nope. Nothing whatsoever. :-)
> That's all I know so far. Updates deeply appreciated.
Can you collect the results of this (wonderful, thanks to everyone,
especially you) thread on your web page one of these days? (At least
until we can get NESFA or someone to do an annotated Lord Darcy....)
--
Christopher Davis * <ckd...@ckdhr.com> * <URL:http://www.ckdhr.com/ckd/>
Put location information in your DNS! <URL:http://www.ckdhr.com/dns-loc/>
Russell Gold
>Dan Swartzendruber (dsw...@druber.com) wrote in article
<MPG.118020e7c...@news.kersur.net>:
>: In article <FA7sy...@kithrup.com>, djh...@kithrup.com says...
>: > In article <7f3pos$7...@sjx-ixn9.ix.netcom.com>,
>: > Joseph Hertzlinger <jher...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>: > >There was the Kaplan--Sheinwold test (named after a couple of bridge
>: > >experts).
>: >
>: > I would never have known about that. Thanks. (I didn't know
>: > Randall ever played bridge, either, but he must've.)
>
>: Same Cherbourg case. Sean informs Darcy that the victim wasn't killed by
>: a Short Club.
Which makes a lot of sense, because some people thought that the
Kaplan-Sheinwold system endorsed the use of a short club - but it doesn't
Jon Meltzer
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <371df90f...@news.mindspring.com>,
>Jon Meltzer <jmel...@pobox.com> wrote:
>>There's also "Father Armand Braun" and "Cesare Sarto" (Hercule Poirot)
>>in "The Napoli Express". I suspect other detectives are on that train...
>
>Mmmm, okay, Father Brown. (I don't think Chesterton ever told us
>the good Father's Christian name, so there's no problem there.)
>Who's Cesare Sarto? Englished it would be Caesar Taylor. Is
>there some linguistic connection I'm missing between "Cesare
>Sarto" and "Hercule Poirot"?
>
The mustache; and the fact that Sarto gives Poirot's solution to
"Murder on the Orient Express". (Darcy shows it to be ridiculous)
Bill Woods
> I *thought* we'd seen this discussion recently. Like, two months
> ago. Here's what was posted (I have, however, corrected a few
> typos):
>
> ------------------------------include--------------------
:
> From: Curt <eskr...@erols.com>
:
> Subject: Flying Sorcerers God List
:
> I finally filled in the last hole with the
> help of a post of Dorothy Heydt (thanks).
> SP'NEE had been the only one I couldn't
> get.
>
> Curt
>
> _____________________________________
> This is a list of the minor gods and deities from
> Niven & Gerrold's Flying Sorcerers. I copied this out of
> a copy of the Comic Buyers Guide in the late 70's.
> Starred (*) entries are my additions where none were
> available:
>
> protagonist- LIKE A PURPLE SHADE OF GREY
> (AS A MAUVE)- Isaac Asimov
Nitpick: "like a color, shade of purple gray"
--
Bill Woods
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program"
-Larry Niven
Brenda
Here's one I haven't seen mentioned yet. In "The Muddle of the Woad"
(anthologized in MURDER AND MAGIC) there are a bunch of cabinetmakers and
woodworkers making a coffin for the Duke of Kent. These worthies are
named Walter Gotobed, Tom Wilderspin, Harry Venable, and Henry Lavender.
All of these surnames are lifted from THE NINE TAILORS by Dorothy Sayers.
Brenda (hope someone is saving all these tidbits someplace)
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD, from Tor Books
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
carl Dershem
> Nitpick: "like a color, shade of purple gray"
As a "color - shade of purple-grey"
Robert Sneddon
<jonme...@mindspring.com> writes
Of course, Hercule Poirot was notoriously punctilious about his
appearance and dress - in fact, he was positively "sartorial".
--
To reply by email, send to nojay (at) public (period) antipope (dot) org
Robert Sneddon
Robert Sneddon
<desi...@aol.com> writes
>Sorry to jump nto an old thread, but I've been out of rasfw for a while.
>
>Some references I haven't seen mentioned
>
>in TMM, Lord Bontriomph (or was it Lord Darcy) owns and uses a .38 Heron
>revolver.
>
> All through the war years, Nero wolfe owned and Archie Godwin drove a 1938
>Heron Sedan, so both had a "38 Heron" (imaginary brands in both cases, I think)
>
>
In another story (can't remember the name, but it involved the black
magician, and Master Sean) the victim was shot with an Italian pistol
made by Ferrari di Milano. Several gunmakers got into the manufacture of
internal combustion engines in the early part of this century - BSA,
Enfield and Husqvarna spring to mind. They had experience boring barrels
and making small intricate mechanisms that had to be robust and
withstand high temperatures.
Robert Sneddon
<s...@nwlink.com> writes
>
>Argh! Not only is most of his other fiction out of print, but now I
>discover that there's even a Lord Darcy story uncollected. This sounds
>like a job for...NESFA Press! O NESFA, we beseech thee, publish _The
>Compleat Garrett_.
Seconded, and I want a good concordance of all the jokes and references
as an appendix.
Danny Sichel
>>> There is a less well known Lord Darcy story (Uncollected, AFAIK)
> Well it wasn't in _Murder and Magic_, nor in the later _Lord Darcy
> Investigates_ nor in _The Best of Randall Garrett_ (Which included "The Spell
> of War" which was not in either of the others), nor in the omnibus _Lord
> Darcy_. I don't know of any other Lord Darcy collections, but it may have been
> in some other collection. I read it in its original magazine apparence
> (IASFM)
IASFM?
Really?
I thought that, by the time IASFM started, Garrett was already
terminally comatose.
Or do I have my dates mixed up?
(Incidentally, as a meta-reference, there's always Glen Cook's Garrett
stories...)
David Goldfarb
Danny Sichel <eds...@umoncton.ca> wrote:
)D E Siegel wrote:
)
)>>> There is a less well known Lord Darcy story (Uncollected, AFAIK)
)
)> Well it wasn't in _Murder and Magic_, nor in the later _Lord Darcy
)> Investigates_ nor in _The Best of Randall Garrett_ (Which included "The Spell
)> of War" which was not in either of the others), nor in the omnibus _Lord
)> Darcy_. I don't know of any other Lord Darcy collections, but it may have been
)> in some other collection. I read it in its original magazine apparence
)> (IASFM)
)
)IASFM?
)
)Really?
)
)I thought that, by the time IASFM started, Garrett was already
)terminally comatose.
)
)Or do I have my dates mixed up?
You do. IASFM published "The Bitter End", and I think even one or two
other Darcy stories ("The Napoli Express" comes to mind). And this was
before the _Gandalara_ books started.
--
David Goldfarb <*>|"I came to Casablanca for the waters."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "The waters? What waters? We're in the desert."
aste...@slip.net |"I was misinformed."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |
Joel Rosenberg
Danny Sichel <eds...@umoncton.ca> wrote in message
news:372BC7...@umoncton.ca...
> D E Siegel wrote:
>
> >>> There is a less well known Lord Darcy story (Uncollected, AFAIK)
>
Spell
have been
>
> IASFM?
>
> Really?
>
> I thought that, by the time IASFM started, Garrett was already
>
> Or do I have my dates mixed up?
>
> stories...)
Maybe yes, maybe no. I remember a couple of Garrett stories in early
IASFMs, but neither of them were Lord Darcy stories.
Danny Sichel
>> (Incidentally, as a meta-reference, there's always Glen Cook's Garrett
>> stories...)
> Maybe yes, maybe no. I remember a couple of Garrett stories in early
> IASFMs, but neither of them were Lord Darcy stories.
Yes, yes, but my point is that that's why the hard-boiled PI is named
Garrett in the FIRST place, see?
Richard Horton
<jo...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>Danny Sichel <eds...@umoncton.ca> wrote in message
>news:372BC7...@umoncton.ca...
>>
>> I thought that, by the time IASFM started, Garrett was already
>> terminally comatose.
>Maybe yes, maybe no. I remember a couple of Garrett stories in early
>IASFMs, but neither of them were Lord Darcy stories.
>
There were definitely a couple of Lord Darcy stories in IASFM. And as
someone else pointed out, the first Gandalara book was published later
than IASFM's first issues, as well. (I believe I've heard that
Garrett was still contributing creatively to the first of these books,
but by the time the subsequent ones came out, he was pretty much out
of it, sadly.)
MA Lloyd
>On 30 Apr 1999, D E Siegel wrote:
>> There is a less well known Lord Darcy story (Uncollected, AFAIK)
>> bitter-tasting drink.
>Is that the one where Sean boobytraps his magic bag?
>I read that in a collection, but unfortunately I have no memory
>whatever of which collection it was.
It's in Issac Asimov's Worlds of Science Fiction, Volume 4 (Davis, 1980)
I've never seen it in another collection, though it could well be.
--
-- MA Lloyd (mall...@io.com)
mi...@okcforum.org
: In article <7gehj6$1...@utah.nwlink.com>, Scott Drellishak
: <s...@nwlink.com> writes
:>
:>Argh! Not only is most of his other fiction out of print, but now I
:>discover that there's even a Lord Darcy story uncollected. This sounds
:>like a job for...NESFA Press! O NESFA, we beseech thee, publish _The
:>Compleat Garrett_.
: Seconded, and I want a good concordance of all the jokes and references
: as an appendix.
<aol>
Me too! Me Too!
</aol>
--
Mike Andrews
Tired old sysadmin
mi...@okcforum.org
Dorothy J Heydt
Robert Sneddon <no...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Seconded, and I want a good concordance of all the jokes and references
>as an appendix.
Particularly the bridge jokes, which I never heard of before and
don't understand in the slightest.
Patrick J. Murphy
but...
In "The Muddle of the Woad," Sir Thomas Leseaux complains about hedge
magicians "who may cover a wound with moldy bread...or give a patient
with heart trouble a tea brewed of foxglove or some such herb which
has no symbolic relationship to his trouble at all." Moldy bread, of
course, is the source of penicillin and other antibiotics, while the
heart medicine digitalis is derived from foxglove. I wonder, are
antibiotics and digitalis actually ineffective in the Darcy universe,
or have their healing properties simply gone undiscovered? In "The
Bitter End," tincture of chinchona (quinine) is prescribed for
malaria, so some real-world medicines do work. (Is there a "symbolic
relationship" between chinchona trees and malaria?)
**********************************************************************
There is nothing so stupid that somebody somewhere won't say or do it.
Paul Andinach
> In "The Muddle of the Woad," Sir Thomas Leseaux complains about
> hedge magicians "who may cover a wound with moldy bread...or give a
> patient with heart trouble a tea brewed of foxglove or some such
> herb which has no symbolic relationship to his trouble at all."
> Moldy bread, of course, is the source of penicillin and other
> antibiotics, while the heart medicine digitalis is derived from
> foxglove. I wonder, are antibiotics and digitalis actually
> ineffective in the Darcy universe, or have their healing properties
> simply gone undiscovered?
I remember in one of the mysteries, the victim was a scientist (as we
would think of it) and was consequently considered rather odd.
The impression I got was that science still works in Darcy's world,
but is rather neglected because people are more interested in the
areas of science that we'd think of as magic; what they know is the
basics required for 'magic' as well as 'science' plus the relatively
few discoveries made by the occasional weirdo who thinks everything
has a sensible physical explanation.
Paul
--
"...the hockey mask is so tightly woven into our collective
subconscious as a symbol of psychotic murder that even *hockey
players* don't wear them anymore. Unless, of course, they *want* to
look evil. And leave the back of their heads completely unprotected."
Dorothy J Heydt
Patrick J. Murphy <pmu...@unm.edu> wrote:
>....I wonder, are
>antibiotics and digitalis actually ineffective in the Darcy universe,
>or have their healing properties simply gone undiscovered? In "The
>Bitter End," tincture of chinchona (quinine) is prescribed for
>malaria, so some real-world medicines do work. (Is there a "symbolic
>relationship" between chinchona trees and malaria?)
No. The secret of Darcy's universe is that the rules are exactly
the same as in ours. The chemicals in quinine work to suppress
the trypanosome of malaria just as in our world. The teleson
(Randall carefully never explained whether it's a telegraph or a
telephone, but it runs on wires) works, even though nobody knows
how. The differences between that world and ours are, basically,
two:
(1) Richard I recovered from his crossbow wound at the Siege of
Chaluz and lived another dozen years, leaving his kingdom in much
better shape, and
(2) Somebody in the fourteenth century discovered the rules of
magic.
You gotta remember that Randall was writing these stories for
John Campbell's Astounding/Analog in the sixties. One of the
bees in Campbell's bonnet was that psionics (telepathy,
telekinesis, etc. etc.) was real, we only had to discover how to
use it. Randall obliged with a set of stories in which people
had done so.
Mike Schilling
> You gotta remember that Randall was writing these stories for
> John Campbell's Astounding/Analog in the sixties. One of the
> bees in Campbell's bonnet was that psionics (telepathy,
> telekinesis, etc. etc.) was real, we only had to discover how to
> use it. Randall obliged with a set of stories in which people
> had done so.
Does this count as a bee in the bonnet? To me, it's much more sensible
than a common alternative: ESP is real, but it doesn't follow scientific
laws, which is why scientific attempts to measure and study it fail. As
Martin Gardner has noted in many articles, this is often used to explain
why psychics can't perform when watched closely by people trained to
detect trickery.
Dorothy J Heydt
Mike Schilling <mi...@forte.com> wrote:
>Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>> ....One of the
>> bees in Campbell's bonnet was that psionics (telepathy,
>> telekinesis, etc. etc.) was real, we only had to discover how to
>> use it.
>
>than a common alternative: ESP is real, but it doesn't follow scientific
I happen to suspect that neither statement is true. The former
statement, however, was only one of the dumb ideas that Campbell
backed (the Hieronymous machine, the Dean Drive, Dianetics, etc.
etc.) and that writers could sell him stories about. If they
were also good stories.
"There are supermen among us,
We must now discover psi,"
Says the master, and the authors
Groan in agony and cry,
"O no, John, no, John, no, John, no!"
Scott Drellishak
Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
)...The teleson
)(Randall carefully never explained whether it's a telegraph or a
)telephone, but it runs on wires)...
Actually, I assumed that "teleson" was a mixture of Greek "tele" (=far)
and Latin "son" (=sound), analagous to our all-Greek "tele" + "phone".
--
/ Scott Drellishak \
| "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced." |
\ "Perfect paranoia is perfect awareness." /
dana rasmussen
wonderful stories like "The Witches of Karres", and the "Demon Breed", he
started with some rather poor stories about a telepathic female hero. As
I recall, he stopped writing about the time that Campbell died.
It was so sad, the Witches begged for another story.......
>>> ....One of the
>>> bees in Campbell's bonnet was that psionics (telepathy,
>>> telekinesis, etc. etc.) was real, we only had to discover how to
>>> use it.
>I happen to suspect that neither statement is true. The former
>statement, however, was only one of the dumb ideas that Campbell
>backed (the Hieronymous machine, the Dean Drive, Dianetics, etc.
>etc.) and that writers could sell him stories about. If they
>were also good stories.
--
Dana Rasmussen
drasm...@nospam.uswest.net
Seattle, Wa
Dorothy J Heydt
Scott Drellishak <s...@nwlink.com> wrote:
>In article <FBzKG...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>)...The teleson
>)(Randall carefully never explained whether it's a telegraph or a
>)telephone, but it runs on wires)...
>
>Actually, I assumed that "teleson" was a mixture of Greek "tele" (=far)
>and Latin "son" (=sound), analagous to our all-Greek "tele" + "phone".
Yeah, but Randall used to say that he had specifically never been
specific about which it was.
Paul Andinach
> No. The secret of Darcy's universe is that the rules are exactly
> the same as in ours. The chemicals in quinine work to suppress the
> trypanosome of malaria just as in our world. The teleson (Randall
> carefully never explained whether it's a telegraph or a telephone,
> but it runs on wires) works, even though nobody knows how.
...something which, perhaps unfortunately, Michael Kurland didn't keep
up in his Darcy novels...
> The differences between that world and ours are, basically, two:
>
> (1) Richard I recovered from his crossbow wound at the Siege of
> Chaluz and lived another dozen years, leaving his kingdom in much
> better shape, and
Which reminds me of one of my favourite subtleties in the Lord Darcy
stories I've read:
In our world, Richard I was succeeded by his brother John, who was
such an unpopular chappy that no other English king has been called
John.
In Darcy's world, they're up to John the - what is it? Some high
number.
Paul
--
History repeats itself because nobody was listening the first time.
Patrick J. Murphy
>Which reminds me of one of my favourite subtleties in the Lord Darcy
>stories I've read:
>In our world, Richard I was succeeded by his brother John, who was
>such an unpopular chappy that no other English king has been called
>John.
>In Darcy's world, they're up to John the - what is it? Some high
>number.
Actually, the current King is John IV. Four in eight centuries isn't
all that many.
Paul Andinach
> Paul Andinach <pand...@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
>
> > In Darcy's world, they're up to John the - what is it? Some high
> > number.
>
> Actually, the current King is John IV. Four in eight centuries
> isn't all that many.
It's still considerably more than we got.
Dorothy J Heydt
Paul Andinach <pand...@mermaid.ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au> wrote:
>
>In our world, Richard I was succeeded by his brother John, who was
>such an unpopular chappy that no other English king has been called
>John.
>number.
Only IV, actually. (I just looked him up.) More than once IIRC
Randall uses his name as an excuse to mention that bad John
Lackland never got to be king at all in Darcy's timeline. (John
predeceased Richard, who was succeeded by his late brother
Geoffrey's son Arthur.)
Dorothy J Heydt
Paul Ciszek <pci...@otherworld.std.com> wrote:
>In article <FC1F...@kithrup.com>,
>>Randall uses his name as an excuse to mention that bad John
>>Lackland never got to be king at all in Darcy's timeline. (John
>>predeceased Richard, who was succeeded by his late brother
>>Geoffrey's son Arthur.)
>
I, I assume, since the official numbering of kings of England (as
distinguished from English kings) begins with William I, the
Conqueror.
Mike Schilling
>
> In article <7hv9lk$h...@utah.nwlink.com>,
> Scott Drellishak <s...@nwlink.com> wrote:
> >)(Randall carefully never explained whether it's a telegraph or a
> >)telephone, but it runs on wires)...
> >
> >Actually, I assumed that "teleson" was a mixture of Greek "tele" (=far)
> >and Latin "son" (=sound), analagous to our all-Greek "tele" + "phone".
>
> Yeah, but Randall used to say that he had specifically never been
> specific about which it was.
>
Honestly, thinking the author's intention is more important than what we
can glean from the text; you'll never become a good deconstructionist:-)
Mike Schilling
>
> In article <FC1vs...@world.std.com>,
> Paul Ciszek <pci...@otherworld.std.com> wrote:
> >>Randall uses his name as an excuse to mention that bad John
> >>Lackland never got to be king at all in Darcy's timeline. (John
> >>predeceased Richard, who was succeeded by his late brother
> >>Geoffrey's son Arthur.)
> >
> >Would that make him Arthur I or Arthur II?
>
> I, I assume, since the official numbering of kings of England (as
> distinguished from English kings) begins with William I, the
> Conqueror.
Arthur is a bad-luck name for an English heir; it was also the name of
Henry VIII's elder brother, who predeceased their father.
Shaad M. Ahmad
<drasmussen-19...@ndsl228.sttl.uswest.net>:
>This must have been what happened to James Schmitz. After writing such
>wonderful stories like "The Witches of Karres", and the "Demon Breed", he
>started with some rather poor stories about a telepathic female hero. As
>I recall, he stopped writing about the time that Campbell died.
>It was so sad, the Witches begged for another story.......
Wasn't there a rumour floating around a while back that he had
indeed written a sequel but that it had somehow got lost?
- Shaad
George D. Phillies
On 20 May 1999, Shaad M. Ahmad wrote:
> drasm...@uswest.net (dana rasmussen) wrote in article >This
> must have been what happened to James Schmitz. After writing such
> >wonderful stories like "The Witches of Karres", and the "Demon
> Breed", he >started with some rather poor stories about a telepathic
> female hero.
IMHO, the Telzey stories showed the continued improvement of his craft.
It was rumored that he didn't stop writing, rather, the Campbell
replacement didn;t like Schmitz's stories.
> Wasn't there a rumour floating around a while back that he had
> indeed written a sequel but that it had somehow got lost?
Not just a rumor. One of the regular contributors to the Schmitz mailing
list actually read The Karres Venture manuscript, which was lost when
Schmitz moved.
George
Jeffrey C. Dege
>In article <FC1F...@kithrup.com>,
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>>
>>Only IV, actually. (I just looked him up.) More than once IIRC
>>Randall uses his name as an excuse to mention that bad John
>>Lackland never got to be king at all in Darcy's timeline. (John
>>predeceased Richard, who was succeeded by his late brother
>>Geoffrey's son Arthur.)
>
>Would that make him Arthur I or Arthur II?
The Arthur you're thinking of was Dux Bellorum of the Britons, who
were pushed out of England by the Saxons, who were conquered by
the Normans, so you're two (or three, if you count the Danes)
invasions behind the times.
The current British monarchy traces itself back to the dukes of
Normandy and the kings of Wessex (the Saxon kingdom that finally
managed to unify England as they pushed the Danes out.) Darcy's
kings could do the same, except that they don't seem to much
care about the Saxon connection.
In any case, Arthur was 600+ years dead when William I started
his little jaunt. The Arthurian legends didn't become terribly
important until the Tudors started emphasizing their "Englishness"
as a way of legitimizing their supplanting of the Plantagenets.
As Darcy's England is still ruled by the Plantagenets, odds are
that the Arthurian legends were never used as a tool of official
propaganda, and so would be less important, and more regionally
varied.
--
A complex system that works is invariably found to have evolved from a
simple system that worked ...A complex system designed from scratch never
works and cannot be patched up to make it work. You have to start over,
beginning with a working simple system.
-- Grady Booch
Dorothy J Heydt
Mike Schilling <mi...@forte.com> wrote:
>
>Arthur is a bad-luck name for an English heir; it was also the name of
>Henry VIII's elder brother, who predeceased their father.
In our timeline. (Wherein nobody knows what happened to Arthur
of Brittany, but odds-on John did him in.) Darcy's Arthur Plantagenet
was such a great king that he is traditionally confused with the
other Arthur, he of the Round Table.
Dorothy J Heydt
Mike Schilling <mi...@forte.com> wrote:
>
>Honestly, thinking the author's intention is more important than what we
>can glean from the text; you'll never become a good deconstructionist:-)
Heh. Not only did I never yearn to be one, I don't know what it
means.
Dorothy J Heydt
Jeffrey C. Dege <jd...@jdege.visi.com> wrote:
>
>The Arthur you're thinking of was Dux Bellorum of the Britons, who
>were pushed out of England by the Saxons, who were conquered by
>the Normans, so you're two (or three, if you count the Danes)
>invasions behind the times.
But the King Arthur of the Plantagenet line in Darcy's timeline
was Arthur of Brittany, son of Richard's brother Geoffrey, who
predeceased Richard in both timelines, having been killed in a
tournament.
>
>....The Arthurian legends didn't become terribly
>important until the Tudors started emphasizing their "Englishness"
Not really. The Matter of Britain was supplying England, France,
and the German and Italian states with tons of epics, ballads,
and romances during the days of the early Plantagenets. That is
why Arthur of Brittany was named that: his mother, Countess
Constance, was an Arthurian freak. (And that's why Eleanor of
Aquitaine supported John, whom she didn't like either, against
Arthur: she thought Constance should have named her son "Henry.")
>As Darcy's England is still ruled by the Plantagenets, odds are
>that the Arthurian legends were never used as a tool of official
>propaganda, and so would be less important, and more regionally
>varied.
They may never have been a tool of official propaganda, but they
were exceedingly popular among lords and lowly.
(Who wants to read/listen to/sing official propaganda, anyway?)
Richard Horton
<phil...@wpi.edu> wrote:
>IMHO, the Telzey stories showed the continued improvement of his craft.
>It was rumored that he didn't stop writing, rather, the Campbell
>replacement didn;t like Schmitz's stories.
He did have a later story in IF. I seem to recall it's a Trigger
Argee story though, not a Telzey story.
--
Rich Horton
gromgorru
George D. Phillies wrote in message ...
>
>
>On 20 May 1999, Shaad M. Ahmad wrote:
>> drasm...@uswest.net (dana rasmussen) wrote in article >This
>> must have been what happened to James Schmitz. After writing such
>> >wonderful stories like "The Witches of Karres", and the "Demon
>> Breed", he >started with some rather poor stories about a telepathic
>> female hero.
>
>It was rumored that he didn't stop writing, rather, the Campbell
>replacement didn;t like Schmitz's stories.
>> indeed written a sequel but that it had somehow got lost?
>
>Not just a rumor. One of the regular contributors to the Schmitz mailing
>list actually read The Karres Venture manuscript, which was lost when
>Schmitz moved.
My kingdom for a time machine!
Paul Clarke
Heydt) wrote:
>In article <37449292...@forte.com>,
>Mike Schilling <mi...@forte.com> wrote:
>>
>>Honestly, thinking the author's intention is more important than what we
>>can glean from the text; you'll never become a good deconstructionist:-)
>
>Heh. Not only did I never yearn to be one, I don't know what it
>means.
That's OK, you can have an octopus instead :-).
Steve Patterson
>
>In article <37449292...@forte.com>,
>Mike Schilling <mi...@forte.com> wrote:
>>
>>Honestly, thinking the author's intention is more important than what we
>>can glean from the text; you'll never become a good deconstructionist:-)
>
>Heh. Not only did I never yearn to be one, I don't know what it
>means.
Deconstruction (v): the precise, careful, and thorough piece-by-piece
destruction of a story in order to find out what it *really* means, never
mind what the authour said he had in mind. Synonymous with "demolition",
"vivisection", "the literary version of parking a truckload of
ammonium-nitrate-fuel-oil-mixture in the authour's garage", and a bunch of
words which would violate FCC regulations if spoken on the air.
--
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Note: My "from:" address has been altered to foil mailbots.
Remove the "no_spam_" to get in touch with me by email.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Steven J. Patterson no_spam_s...@wwdc.com
"Men may move mountains, but ideas move men."
-- M.N. Vorkosigan, per L.M. Bujold
See my refurbished webpage! http://www.wwdc.com/~spatterson
Kevin J. Maroney
>In article <37449292...@forte.com>,
>Mike Schilling <mi...@forte.com> wrote:
>>
>>Honestly, thinking the author's intention is more important than what we
>>can glean from the text; you'll never become a good deconstructionist:-)
>
>Heh. Not only did I never yearn to be one, I don't know what it
>means.
You're hardly alone in that.
But the belief that what is written in the text is more important than
the author's intention is not original to (or even particularly
relevant to) deconstruction. It is, however, the cornerstone of the
New Criticism, which, like anything called "New", is now quite old.
Kevin Maroney | kmar...@crossover.com
Kitchen Staff Supervisor
The New York Review of Science Fiction
http://ebbs.english.vt.edu/olp/nyrsf/nyrsf.html
O Flainn
strong women characters were in Campbell's ANALOG.
carl Dershem
> (Who wants to read/listen to/sing official propaganda, anyway?)
Any good bundist or other zealot, usually.
carl Dershem
> >> you'll never become a good deconstructionist:-)
> >
> >Heh. Not only did I never yearn to be one, I don't know what it
> >means.
>
> That's OK, you can have an octopus instead :-).
Might be useful -- can it type?
Jeffrey C. Dege
>
>Deconstruction (v): the precise, careful, and thorough piece-by-piece
>destruction of a story in order to find out what it *really* means, never
>mind what the authour said he had in mind. Synonymous with "demolition",
>"vivisection", "the literary version of parking a truckload of
>ammonium-nitrate-fuel-oil-mixture in the authour's garage", and a bunch of
>words which would violate FCC regulations if spoken on the air.
As I understand it, deconstructionism is a form of literary criticism that
is intended to demonstrate the fundamental meaninglessness of literature.
IMO, what it demonstrates is the fundamental meaninglessness of literary
criticism.
--
"I quite agree with you," said the Duchess; "and the moral of
that is -- `Be what you would seem to be' -- or, if you'd like it put
more simply -- `Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it
might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not
otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be
otherwise.'"
-- Lewis Carrol, "Alice in Wonderland"
D Landhill
>Particularly the bridge jokes, which I never heard of before and
>don't understand in the slightest.
The "Jacoby Transfer" is a bridge convention, in which One parter opens with a
bid of One No trump, and the otehr responds with a bid of Two Diamonds to
indicate a Heart suit, or Two Hearts to indicate a Spade suit. The opener then
bids the implied (heart or spade) suit. This allows the opener (the strong
hand) to bid the correct suit first, thus becoming declarer and controling the
play.
The joke is that when a Jacopy Transfer is used, it is not possible for the
partnership to stop before reaching a bid of 'Two Hearts" hence "To use the
Jacopy Transfer, at least two hearts are required"
The Kaplan-Shinwald bidding system was a very popular bidding system in the 50s
and 60s, often called simply "The System". In it, the bid of "One Club" whild
holding fewer than three cards of that suit is not allowed. Such a bid, popular
in the Goren system, was known as a "short club bid"
Hence the joke" "According to the Kaplan-Shinwald test, a short club could not
have been used."
[posted and emailed]
Don A. Landhill
DALan...@AOL.COM
D Landhill
>> >)(Randall carefully never explained whether it's a telegraph or a
>> >)telephone, but it runs on wires)...
>>
>> >Actually, I assumed that "teleson" was a mixture of Greek "tele" (=far)
>> >and Latin "son" (=sound), analagous to our all-Greek "tele" + "phone".
>>
>> Yeah, but Randall used to say that he had specifically never been
>> specific about which it was.
>>
>
>
We never see or hear of voice msgs going by Teleson -- it seems to have
limitations more like the telegraph. Also note that it can't connect over
water - I always assumed that this meant that no one had invented insulation
for the wires.
Don A. Landhill
DALan...@AOL.COM
Joe Slater
>In "The Muddle of the Woad," Sir Thomas Leseaux complains about hedge
>magicians "who may cover a wound with moldy bread...or give a patient
>with heart trouble a tea brewed of foxglove or some such herb which
>has no symbolic relationship to his trouble at all." Moldy bread, of
>course, is the source of penicillin and other antibiotics, while the
>heart medicine digitalis is derived from foxglove. I wonder, are
>antibiotics and digitalis actually ineffective in the Darcy universe,
>or have their healing properties simply gone undiscovered? In "The
>Bitter End," tincture of chinchona (quinine) is prescribed for
>malaria, so some real-world medicines do work. (Is there a "symbolic
>relationship" between chinchona trees and malaria?)
Foxglove is digitalis, and it is therefore highly appropriate to fix
problems detected through the pulse which is felt in the hand and its
fingers. Moldy bread is useless - even if you caught penicillin
(unlikely) it wouldn't have enough of the drug to cure anything, so
Sir Thomas was right to reject it. I'm surprised they don't mention
willow infusion (salicylic acid, a precursor to Aspirin) as an aid to
reducing fevers. Willows grow along cool streams, you see.
jds
Dorothy J Heydt
D Landhill <dlan...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>We never see or hear of voice msgs going by Teleson -- it seems to have
>limitations more like the telegraph.
We never see a teleson message directly, only somebody saying
"that a message had arrived by teleson saying that ...."
>Also note that it can't connect over
>water - I always assumed that this meant that no one had invented insulation
>for the wires.
Wellll, at any rate they haven't been able to run the teleson
wires over (or under) the Channel. I would want to see a
specific reference saying that the teleson wires wouldn't cross
water of any width.
Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djh...@kithrup.com
Adam Benedict Canning
>
>>> Yeah, but Randall used to say that he had specifically never been
>>> specific about which it was.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>We never see or hear of voice msgs going by Teleson -- it seems to have
>limitations more like the telegraph. Also note that it can't connect over
>water - I always assumed that this meant that no one had invented insulation
>for the wires.
You mean it isn't just a form of magical communication that doesn't
work over water?
Adam
Dorothy J Heydt
Adam Benedict Canning <da...@cableinet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>You mean [teleson] isn't just a form of magical communication that doesn't
>work over water?
No. If it were magical, they'd understand it. It's electrical,
and they haven't the faintest glimmer how it works.
Danny Sichel
>
> Foxglove is digitalis, and it is therefore highly appropriate to fix
> problems detected through the pulse which is felt in the hand and its
> fingers. Moldy bread is useless - even if you caught penicillin
> (unlikely) it wouldn't have enough of the drug to cure anything, so
> Sir Thomas was right to reject it. I'm surprised they don't mention
> willow infusion (salicylic acid, a precursor to Aspirin) as an aid to
> reducing fevers. Willows grow along cool streams, you see.
"Willowfine" WAS mentioned as a remedy for headaches, although that
might have been in the Kurland-written sequel.
D Landhill
Secret Service" Now a "lien" is a loan or debt a word which came into legal
english via norman french. It is now mostly used for a court imposed debt to
satisfy a judgement or a statutory debt to secure payment for work (a
mechnaic's lein) I think it is a reasonable translation for another
court-imposed debt (for a prisoner being released, amoung other uses) and that
the agent was none other than James Bond
I wonder if his alias "Vincent Coude" has another meaning? what about the
other names in this story?
Also "A Case of Identity" was the title of a Shelock Holmes short story, which
I doubt was a co-incidence (N.B this story was later parodied/expanded on by
Colin Dexter, in his "A case of Identity" in _Morse's greatest mystery_)
Ther is also "Lord Arlen" victum in "A streach of the imagination" Is he
connected with the "Lord Arlen" of the ballad "Matty Groves"
Don A. Landhill
DALan...@AOL.COM
Dorothy J Heydt
Danny Sichel <eds...@umoncton.ca> wrote:
>
>"Willowfine" WAS mentioned as a remedy for headaches, although that
>might have been in the Kurland-written sequel.
Sequels, actually, there are two.
I'm just about to start rereading 'em; I'll see what Randall/Michael
have to say about genus Salix. (If it were Adrienne Martine-Barnes,
now, it would be easy; in _The Fire Sword_ she turns the willow
into a goddess, Our Lady of the Aspirin.)
Patrick J. Murphy
>In article <19990522185444...@ng-fb1.aol.com>,
>D Landhill <dlan...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>We never see or hear of voice msgs going by Teleson -- it seems to have
>>limitations more like the telegraph.
>We never see a teleson message directly, only somebody saying
>"that a message had arrived by teleson saying that ...."
In "The Bitter End," it's mentioned that Master Sean made a "teleson
*call*," which sounds more like telephone than telegraph. Also, no
mention is ever made of "teleson operators" -- it sounds to me as
though anyone can make a teleson call, no special skill is required.
**********************************************************************
There is nothing so stupid that somebody somewhere won't say or do it.
Brenda
Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
>
> Sequels, actually, there are two.
>
Argh! Are there two? I only have one, TEN LITTLE WIZARDS -- it wasn't
nearly as inspiring as the originals. What is the other?
Brenda
--
---------
Brenda W. Clough, author of HOW LIKE A GOD, from Tor Books
http://www.sff.net/people/Brenda/
Dorothy J Heydt
Patrick J. Murphy <pmu...@unm.edu> wrote:
>
>In "The Bitter End," it's mentioned that Master Sean made a "teleson
>*call*," which sounds more like telephone than telegraph. Also, no
>mention is ever made of "teleson operators" -- it sounds to me as
>though anyone can make a teleson call, no special skill is required.
But the technology whereby anyone can make a telephone call
without special skill is fairly recent. You *used* to pick up
your receiver, turn a crank to make a bell ring at the other end,
and say, "Hello, Central, get me Thornwall 82..." and the
operator plugged the necesary plus into her switchboard. Okay,
that's early-twentieth-century, but even into the middle of this
century making a long-distance call involved calling a long-
distance operator who would get in touch with another long-distance
operator in the target area, and your operator would call you
back, maybe half an hour later, to tell you your call had gone
through.
And remember, you always have to take into account the phenomenon
of Randall being clever. Having determined that he's not going
to tell you whether the teleson is a telephone or a telegraph,
he's going to plant false clues to mislead you. Here, "made a
teleson call" which sounds to us like a telephone. In another
place he might say "a teleson message came in" which sounds more
to us like a telegraph. I'll go through the books presently and
take notes.
Dorothy J Heydt
>
>Argh! Are there two? I only have one, TEN LITTLE WIZARDS -- it wasn't
>nearly as inspiring as the originals. What is the other?
_A Study in Sorcery,_ Ace, 1989. Also not as good as the
originals. Takes place in Nova Eboracum.
Brenda
Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <37495F3A...@erols.com>, Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> >Argh! Are there two? I only have one, TEN LITTLE WIZARDS -- it wasn't
> >nearly as inspiring as the originals. What is the other?
>
> _A Study in Sorcery,_ Ace, 1989. Also not as good as the
> originals. Takes place in Nova Eboracum.
>
Damn, more work to do in huckster rooms...
Michael R N Dolbear
>
> > In article <37495F3A...@erols.com>, Brenda <clo...@erols.com>
wrote:
> > >
> > >Argh! Are there two? I only have one, TEN LITTLE WIZARDS -- it
wasn't
> > >nearly as inspiring as the originals. What is the other?
> >
> > _A Study in Sorcery,_ Ace, 1989. Also not as good as the
> > originals. Takes place in Nova Eboracum.
Amazon.com talks to Michael Kurland (author of the above) part quote
M.K.: I've been on the Net to one extent or another for the past two years.
I use it mostly for research. I would love to find some newsgroups that
aren't just a waste of time, but so far I haven't.
--
Mike the D
mi...@okcforum.org
: In article <19990522185444...@ng-fb1.aol.com>,
: D Landhill <dlan...@aol.com> wrote:
: We never see a teleson message directly, only somebody saying
: "that a message had arrived by teleson saying that ...."
:>Also note that it can't connect over
:>water - I always assumed that this meant that no one had invented insulation
:>for the wires.
: Wellll, at any rate they haven't been able to run the teleson
: wires over (or under) the Channel. I would want to see a
: specific reference saying that the teleson wires wouldn't cross
: water of any width.
Time for a "reductio ad absurdum", folks.
If it can't connect over water, then in England it's not
going to connect _anywhere_. The driest I've ever seen
England was exceedingly wet, and then there are the
times when it rains for ever and ever, Amen.
And I don't recall anything in the canon about teleson not
crossing water, anyway. Granted, I just found out about a
story I hadn't read (a situation to be remedied _SOON!),
and that may put paid to my argument, but barring that,
teleson signals gotta be able to cross water to get anywhere
in England (and much of the rest of Europe).
--
Mike Andrews
Tired old sysadmin
mi...@okcforum.org
Dorothy J Heydt
>Dorothy J Heydt <djh...@kithrup.com> wrote:
>
>If it can't connect over water, then in England it's not
>going to connect _anywhere_. The driest I've ever seen
>England was exceedingly wet, and then there are the
>times when it rains for ever and ever, Amen.
It isn't that the teleson lines are magical and, like some druids
in stories, can't cross water without suffering a sea (well,
maybe river or lake) change. It's that teleson lines are
electromagnetic and the teleson itself thoroughly not understood
and nobody knows how it works--but with the traditional emphasis
on magic and away from mechanical technology, they don't have the
ability to lay teleson lines across the English Channel and have
them unbroken at the end of the process. It's, what, twenty-five
miles across? and I've no idea how deep. Consider that they've
barely reached the Steam Age (they have railroads but not
automobiles) and I don't think they've had Isambard Kingdom
Brunel.
D Landhill
>:>Also note that it can't connect over
>:>water - I always assumed that this meant that no one had invented
>insulation
>:>for the wires.
>
>
>
>: Wellll, at any rate they haven't been able to run the teleson
>: wires over (or under) the Channel. I would want to see a
>: specific reference saying that the teleson wires wouldn't cross
>: water of any width.
>
>
>Time for a "reductio ad absurdum", folks.
>
>If it can't connect over water, then in England it's not
>going to connect _anywhere_. The driest I've ever seen
>England was exceedingly wet, and then there are the
>times when it rains for ever and ever, Amen.
>
>And I don't recall anything in the canon about teleson not
>crossing water, anyway. Granted, I just found out about a
>story I hadn't read (a situation to be remedied _SOON!),
>and that may put paid to my argument, but barring that,
>teleson signals gotta be able to cross water to get anywhere
>in England (and much of the rest of Europe).
>
>--
>Mike Andrews
>Tired old sysadmin
>mi...@okcforum.org
>
There is a specific mention that the telson can not connect over the channel in
_To Many Magicians_ and also in "The Muddle of the Woad" where a telson msg is
sent to dover and a special SHIP from there to summon the wizard Sean O.L. to
Canterbury. I don't remember any ref to limitaions in crossing smaller bodies
of water.
Don A. Landhill
DALan...@AOL.COM
Paul Andinach
> Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>
> > Brenda <clo...@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Argh! Are there two? I only have one, TEN LITTLE WIZARDS -- it
> > > wasn't nearly as inspiring as the originals. What is the other?
> >
> > _A Study in Sorcery,_ Ace, 1989. Also not as good as the
> > originals. Takes place in Nova Eboracum.
>
> Damn, more work to do in huckster rooms...
<looks at message>
<looks over shoulder at bookshelf>
<looks at vast distance between self and Brenda>
<accidentally hits "Send" instead of "Cancel">
Paul
--
"The group had people from 4 U.S. states, England, Scotland, Wales,
Switzerland, Germany, and Italy. Luckily everyone spoke English,
including the Americans."
O Flainn
and who bears a passing resemblance to Nero Wolfe's assistant, Archie Goodwin.
Asia2000
: Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
: > You gotta remember that Randall was writing these stories for
: > John Campbell's Astounding/Analog in the sixties. One of the
: > bees in Campbell's bonnet was that psionics (telepathy,
: > telekinesis, etc. etc.) was real, we only had to discover how to
: > use it. Randall obliged with a set of stories in which people
: > had done so.
: Does this count as a bee in the bonnet? To me, it's much more sensible
: than a common alternative: ESP is real, but it doesn't follow scientific
: laws, which is why scientific attempts to measure and study it fail. As
Most people with a scientific bent would tend to the alternative that it
doesn't work at all. It was troubling that JWC actually seemed to believe
in pseudo-science, though he was prone to holding outrageous opinions jsut
to piss people off or create controversy.
Paul Andinach
_Lord Darcy Investigates_, (short stories) published by Ace.
On the front cover, Lord Darcy is standing next to a fire in a
darkened room, wearing black clothes and a scarlet-lined cape.
He looks like a vampire - maybe the publishes wanted to make sure
people realised it was fantasy?
</senseless waffle>