Oh, eff me... Shuttle Columbia is missing...
Michael R Weholt
9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about where she is...
Perrianne Lurie
It looks like it broke into pieces somewhere over the Dallas, Texas,
area. CNN is showing video that shows at least three trails falling
out of the sky. <DAMN>
Perrianne Lurie
bucc...@nospam.pipeline.com
Arwel Parry
<bucc...@pipeline.com> writes
>On Sat, 1 Feb 2003 14:29:13 +0000 (UTC), Michael R Weholt
><awnb...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>>NASA lost contact with her at 9:00am EST. She was supposed to land at
>>9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about where she is...
>
>It looks like it broke into pieces somewhere over the Dallas, Texas,
>area. CNN is showing video that shows at least three trails falling
>out of the sky. <DAMN>
Yes, BBC News 24 and ITV News are showing the trails too. Looks bad :-(
--
Arwel Parry
http://www.cartref.demon.co.uk/
David G. Bell
<Xns931560817E0...@166.84.1.69>
awnb...@panix.com "Michael R Weholt" wrote:
> NASA lost contact with her at 9:00am EST. She was supposed to land at
> 9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about where she is...
BBC News 24 has been showing video of something breaking up at high
altitude over Texas.
There's the usual vagueness from reporters and the media folk, but I
can't see how anyone could survive.
Nobody has said whether the timing of the loss of contact was
significant. It happens anyway during re-entry, but the comments have
been consistent with whatever happpened being during the normal black-
out period.
--
David G. Bell -- SF Fan, Filker, and Punslinger.
"Let me get this straight. You're the KGB's core AI, but you're afraid
of a copyright infringement lawsuit over your translator semiotics?"
From "Lobsters" by Charles Stross.
Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y
>9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about where she is...
Oh fuck, not again.
Was just talking elsewhere about the Challenger disaster, on its 17th
anniversary.
Fuck.
--
Leif Kj{\o}nn{\o}y | "Its habit of getting up late you'll agree
www.pvv.org/~leifmk| That it carries too far, when I say
Math geek and gamer| That it frequently breakfasts at five-o'clock tea,
GURPS, Harn, CORPS | And dines on the following day." (Carroll)
Arwel Parry
<db...@zhochaka.demon.co.uk> writes
>On Saturday, in article
> <Xns931560817E0...@166.84.1.69>
> awnb...@panix.com "Michael R Weholt" wrote:
>
>> NASA lost contact with her at 9:00am EST. She was supposed to land at
>> 9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about where she is...
>
>BBC News 24 has been showing video of something breaking up at high
>altitude over Texas.
>
>There's the usual vagueness from reporters and the media folk, but I
>can't see how anyone could survive.
>
>Nobody has said whether the timing of the loss of contact was
>significant. It happens anyway during re-entry, but the comments have
>been consistent with whatever happpened being during the normal black-
>out period.
ITV are saying there was a garbled message from the shuttle just before
loss of contact. I don't know how much recoverable evidence there will
be to find out what happened, but I suppose there won't be much.
Kip Williams
I don't know why this should feel worse than, say, an airplane
crash. But it does.
Poor guys. I hope it was quick. I hope they never knew.
Crap.
--
--Kip
Earl Cooley III
Jane Wagner
first thing that came into my head was the old filk from the Minus Ten
and Counting tape (from 1983, and not listened to for several years
now):
Fly Columbia, Foundation of the Future, Courier of Dreams, Thunder On!
I grieve for the astronauts, and I worry about the effect on the space
program, but I also grieve for that marvelous old shuttle, the first
to fly.
Minor disclaimer: I work for NASA (contractor), but am not involved
with the shuttle program, although I support the libraries at Johnson
and Kennedy as well as the other centers. I feel like I should go
into work today, but there is absolutely nothing I could contribute.
Things are going to be rough at the center on Monday....
Jane Wagner
replace nospamwanted with wagner_jane in address
----
A mystery of the universe is how it has managed to survive with so much volunteer help. (Norman Maclean, _Young Men and Fire_)
Sue Mason
This is so sad, those poor people, their poor families.
Sue
David G. Bell
<+mvPBw5b...@cartref.demon.co.uk>
ar...@cartref.demon.co.uk "Arwel Parry" wrote:
From www.ananova.com altitude is reported to be 200,700 feet at the time
of loss.
Other net-sources give the communications black-out as happening between
265,000 feet and 162,000 feet and lasting about 16 minutes.
From 400,000 feet the time to landing is about 45 minutes.
If the figure quoted by Ananova is correct (radar tracking, I suppose)
NASA couldn't have picked up any signal from Columbia.
Keith F. Lynch
> Nobody has said whether the timing of the loss of contact was
> significant. It happens anyway during re-entry, but the comments
> have been consistent with whatever happpened being during the normal
> black-out period.
There is no black-out period with the shuttle, since it relays off
satellites, using an antenna on the top, away from the ionization.
I never thought I'd say this, but I'm sure glad I'm not aboard the
International Space Station right now.
January 27th, 1967, January 28th, 1986, and now February 1st, 2003.
(Odd how all three were at about the same time of year.)
--
Keith F. Lynch - k...@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail (spam) is not acceptable. Please do not send me
HTML, "rich text," or attachments, as all such email is discarded unread.
Loren MacGregor
> NASA lost contact with her at 9:00am EST. She was supposed to land at
> 9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about where she is...
Coming back briefly to rasff because this is the one group I knew would
be talking about this.
The films of the scattered debris are devestating.
Damn, damn DAMN!
Back to hibernation mode, and back to watching the news.
-- LJM
Jim Battista
news:b1h1uu$qsu$1...@panix2.panix.com:
> January 27th, 1967, January 28th, 1986, and now February 1st, 2003.
> (Odd how all three were at about the same time of year.)
What time of the year were the big Soviet failures (the dead cosmonauts
coming back, the unmanned N-1 explosion, and that one where people
actually got to use the escape-rocket-system), and that horrific
Chinese launch that killed a whole bunch of villagers?
--
Jim Battista
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
Kristopher
Just after noon EDT, I woke up, turned on the computer,
dialed up, and started reading rasff. The last thread
in line was this one. I've been flipping back and forth
between MSNBC and CNN ever since. I've been on the verge
of tears the whole time. I want to swear, I want to hit
something, I have to fight to keep my teeth from grinding.
--
Kristopher
"I'll never trust myself again, but I don't care...
Just set that plastic world on fire, and watch it melt."
Monster Magnet -- "Melt"
David G. Bell
k...@KeithLynch.net "Keith F. Lynch" wrote:
> David G. Bell <db...@zhochaka.org.uk> wrote:
> > Nobody has said whether the timing of the loss of contact was
> > significant. It happens anyway during re-entry, but the comments
> > have been consistent with whatever happpened being during the normal
> > black-out period.
>
> There is no black-out period with the shuttle, since it relays off
> satellites, using an antenna on the top, away from the ionization.
Is this a change in the last few years?
Yeah, there's stuff coming out now from NASA. They got a warning for
landing gear tyre-pressure on the telemetry.
Richard Eney
Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>
>I never thought I'd say this, but I'm sure glad I'm not aboard the
>International Space Station right now.
Reportedly the ISS has a Soyuz docked alongside; they're not cut off
completely should an emergency arise.
At: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/
There is a straw poll about continuing manned space flight.
With about 8,000 responses in it's running 81 percent in favor of
continuing despite the risks. Vote your conscience, but VOTE.
-- Dick Eney
Omega
<ar...@cartref.demon.co.uk> writes
know. It was the oldest of the fleet and I'm wondering about the tile
conditions. I know they're regularly re done but..
--
Omega
"The chances of anything man-like on mars are a million to one," he said.
H. G. Wells The War Of The Worlds
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey
> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote in
> news:b1h1uu$qsu$1...@panix2.panix.com:
>
> > January 27th, 1967, January 28th, 1986, and now February 1st, 2003.
> > (Odd how all three were at about the same time of year.)
>
> What time of the year were the big Soviet failures (the dead cosmonauts
> coming back,
Fortunately for you, I have gotten out some refernce books, in case I get
another call from TV reporters like the one that woke me up today.
Aboard Soyuz 1, Vladimir Komarov died on 24 April 1967.
Aboard Soyuz 11, G. Dobrovolsky, V. Volkov, V. Patsayev died on 29 June
1971.
> the unmanned N-1 explosion,
There were a bunch of N-1 launches, all failures.
> and that one where people
> actually got to use the escape-rocket-system),
Soyuz T-10, 27 September 1983.
> and that horrific
> Chinese launch that killed a whole bunch of villagers?
I don't know anything about this one. Some googling reveals that six people
were killed, 57 injured, in a Long March 3B failure on 14 February 1996.
I don't think this all adds up to a pattern, especially since you haven't
specified what all these incidents have in common. Not all of there were
fatal. There have been other fatalities in rocketry and spaceflight at
other times. There is no reason to believe that spaceflight accidents are
more likely to happen at a particular time of year.
--
Bill Higgins Internet: hig...@fnal.gov
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
Morgan Gallagher
writes
I think it's so much worse in many ways because it's so personal. A
plane crashes, if you don't know the people involved, it's a normal
reaction of sorrow and grief for any human loss. The space programme has
a fatal crash, and your (my) hopes of the future and space and a sense
of human journey, is damaged too. Hope is challenged is a direct and
personal way.
I'm very sad, and in great sympathy for the friends and families. For
them, this a tragedy on a personal scale that doesn't have anything to
do with the 'specialness' of their job or where they were when it
happened.
I keep coming back to the back cover that WaRP Graphics printed on their
entire run after the Challenger disaster. It was a tribute to the
fallen crew, with a statement that they knew the risks, and took them
willingly. They wanted to do what they did, and they knew that nothing
was ever certain. Whilst it would have been better if they had
survived, they did something wonderful on their own terms, fulfilled
their dreams and took their own steps into the future.
I'll concentrate on that triumph, and once again stop watching the news
as I don't need to see the trails disintegrate over and over and over.
--
Morgan
morgan 'at' dreyfuss 'dot' demon 'dot' co 'dot' uk
Jim Battista
news:Pine.SGI.4.31.030201...@fsgi01.fnal.gov:
> On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Jim Battista wrote:
>
>> the unmanned N-1 explosion,
>
> There were a bunch of N-1 launches, all failures.
Yah. I meant that one in '68 or '69 that exploded on the pad killing
some ground workers.
> I don't think this all adds up to a pattern, especially since you
> haven't specified what all these incidents have in common.
Oh, I don't think there's any real pattern. It would just be a weird
coincidence if they clustered in winter launches.
It would also be highly annoying to see that get used by antispace
weirdos as evidence of some conspiracy or something.
Keith F. Lynch
> Oh, I don't think there's any real pattern. It would just be a
> weird coincidence if they clustered in winter launches.
Yes. The three US space disasters were from three completely
different causes. And the first one, the Apollo Fire, was not
launched in the winter or at any other time.
> It would also be highly annoying to see that get used by antispace
> weirdos as evidence of some conspiracy or something.
It probably will be, so we should be prepared.
Joel Rosenberg
both the passion and professionalism of Ron Dittemore, the shuttle
program manager. He's visibly shaken, but he's also focussed on
figuring out what happened, and fixing it. He seems, understandably,
to be the least distressed the more that he talks about details of
shuttle missions.
He says that the disaster happened at Mach 18, during the peak heating
of the shuttle.
--
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Christopher K Davis
Dick, Mike, El, Judy, Ron, Greg, Christa...
Vladimir, Georgi, Viktor, Vladislav...
Take care of your new brothers and sisters for us, willya?
--
Christopher Davis * <ckd...@ckdhr.com> * <URL:http://www.ckdhr.com/ckd/>
Of course I feel old. The videos I used to watch on MTV (back when they
still showed videos) moved to VH1, and now they're on "VH1 Classic".
Ray Radlein
>
> I'm listening to the NASA briefing via CSPAN, and I'm impressed with
> both the passion and professionalism of Ron Dittemore, the shuttle
> program manager.
Just a quick note here (hi, everyone, I'm still alive, by the way) -- I
saw an interview earlier today with Buzz Aldrin, in which he tearfully
quoted some poetry by Jordin Kare.
- Ray R.
--
*********************************************************************
"Well, before my sword can pass all the way through your neck, it has
to pass *half way* through your neck. But before it can do *that*, it
has to first pass *one-fourth* of the way through your neck. And
before it can do *that*...." - Zeno, Warrior Princess
Ray Radlein - rayra...@earthlink.net
homepage coming soon! wooo, wooo.
*********************************************************************
Rivka W
"Richard Eney" <dic...@radix.net> wrote in message
news:b1h95h$858$1...@news1.radix.net...
> In article <b1h1uu$qsu$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> >
> >I never thought I'd say this, but I'm sure glad I'm not aboard
> >the International Space Station right now.
>
> Reportedly the ISS has a Soyuz docked alongside; they're
> not cut off completely should an emergency arise.
I heard an interview with Rep. Sensenbrenner on NPR. He said that
there was no way U.S. spaceflight would be grounded for anywhere near
as long as it was after the Challenger disaster, and cited the ISS
astronauts as a primary reason. They may be coming home in a shuttle
after all.
I think I also heard him say that the ISS can receive supplies by
rocket, but I'm not entirely sure. If they can be resupplied, they may
just stay up there a bit longer than expected.
> At: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/
>
> There is a straw poll about continuing manned space flight.
>
> With about 8,000 responses in it's running 81 percent in favor
> of continuing despite the risks. Vote your conscience, but
> VOTE.
I haven't yet encountered any anti-space rhetoric, which I find
interesting. Has anyone else? Even in mainstream news sources - and in
Bush's address - I'm seeing a lot of affirmations of the importance of
space exploration.
Rivka
Joel Rosenberg
Then you either should or shouldn't tune into CSPAN's next call-in
show. There was one fellow who explained that this wasn't a time for
partisanship or taking political advantage, and we all ought to band
together, and not spend any more money on spaceflight while some
people in the US don't have health insurance, and another who ranted
about the security recklessness of having an Israeli on board, and so
forth.
Most, though, sounded sad but sane.
--
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Rivka W
"Joel Rosenberg" <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote in message
news:m2d6mbk...@joelr.ellegon.com...
> "Rivka W" <riv...@comcast.net> writes:
>
> > I haven't yet encountered any anti-space rhetoric, which I
> > find interesting. Has anyone else? Even in mainstream news
> > sources - and in Bush's address - I'm seeing a lot of
> > affirmations of the importance of space exploration.
>
> call-in show. There was one fellow who explained that this
> wasn't a time for partisanship or taking political advantage,
> and we all ought to band together, and not spend any more
> money on spaceflight while some people in the US don't have
> health insurance, and another who ranted about the security
> recklessness of having an Israeli on board, and so forth.
Argh. Yeah, thanks for warning me away. Although I'm shunning live
news coverage in general right now, except for scheduled things like
the NASA press conference. I hate listening to people fill in time
with platitudes and speculation, and I can't bear watching it explode
again and again and again.
> Most, though, sounded sad but sane.
Good, I'm glad.
Rivka
Joel Rosenberg
Some of it is worth listening to. Some folks, while by no means
eloquent, are showing their humanity. (I'm not knocking eloquence,
but ... )
A man called in from Abu Dhabi, a while ago, clearly fighting back
tears, and his sympathy for the families and friends of the dead came
through loud and clear, despite his imperfect English, halting speech,
and thick accent.
I'd find the constant invocations of the diety irritating if I didn't
seem them as people showing their grief and sympathy as best they
can.
I've seen it explode enough, myself. If there's anything to learn
from it, somebody more knowledgable than me can learn it.
Ken MacLeod
<s...@arctic-fox.freeserve.co.uk> writes
>Glowing like a star.
>
I remembered this apt description when I saw it on the news.
I heard about it from Charlie Stross less than an hour after it
happened. The way it took shape in my mind was 'We lost a spaceship.'
>This is so sad, those poor people, their poor families.
>
Yes.
Husband, McCool, Anderson, Brown, Chawla, Clark, Ramon.
Komarov, Grissom, White, Chaffee, Dobrovolsky, Volkov, Patsayev,
Resnick, Scobee, Smith, McNair, McAuliffe, Jarvis, Onizuka.
These names will be written under other skies.
--
Ken MacLeod
Avram Grumer
Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <hig...@fnal.gov> wrote:
> I don't think this all adds up to a pattern, especially since you
> haven't specified what all these incidents have in common. Not all of
> there were fatal. There have been other fatalities in rocketry and
> spaceflight at other times. There is no reason to believe that
> spaceflight accidents are more likely to happen at a particular time
> of year.
They are if spaceflight launches are more likely to happen at a
particular time of year.
--
Avram Grumer | av...@grumer.org | http://www.PigsAndFishes.org
They that can give up your essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety are running the US Justice Department.
Keith F. Lynch
> There was one fellow who explained that ... we all ought ... not
> spend any more money on spaceflight while some people in the US
Speaking as one of those in the US who doesn't have health insurance,
let me say that this "fellow" doesn't speak for me. I am not someone's
political football, to be used as a poster child for the cause de jour
without my consent.
While I would prefer that space flight was funded privately, if the
government must tax us, I'd rather the money be spent on space science
than on medical coverage or other forms of charity.
Keith F. Lynch
> ... I've seen it explode enough, myself. ...
Another benefit of a text-only account.
I have a TV, but I haven't turned it on.
Joel Rosenberg
> Joel Rosenberg <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote:
> > There was one fellow who explained that ... we all ought ... not
> > spend any more money on spaceflight while some people in the US
> > don't have health insurance, ...
>
> Speaking as one of those in the US who doesn't have health insurance,
> let me say that this "fellow" doesn't speak for me.
I'm glad you wrote that, but I'd have been stunned if you'd felt
otherwise.
--
------------------------------------------------------------
http://islamthereligionofpeace.blogspot.com
Kevin J. Maroney
<jonme...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>What were the weather conditions in Florida when Columbia was
>launched? It's been unusually cold throughout most of the South this
>year.
I imagine that at 200,000 feet, it was pretty darn cold, regardless of
whether one was over Florida or Texas.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | k...@panix.com
Games are my entire waking life.
Marilee J. Layman
Up to 88% now, but on the same page, a link to an article quoting
Iraqis as saying the disaster was "God's vengeance."
--
Marilee J. Layman
Handmade Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>I've seen it explode enough, myself. If there's anything to learn
>from it, somebody more knowledgable than me can learn it.
I saw its first landing. I was teaching a Datapro seminar in San
Francisco and I told the class early on that I was taking an
unscheduled break to go watch it land on TV and they were welcome to
come with me. Everybody, even the Mexicans and Canadians in the
group, were thrilled that it landed safely. It's so sad to see the
film of the breakup in this landing.
Priscilla Ballou
Ken MacLeod <k...@libertaria.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Husband, McCool, Anderson, Brown, Chawla, Clark, Ramon.
>
> Komarov, Grissom, White, Chaffee, Dobrovolsky, Volkov, Patsayev,
> Resnick, Scobee, Smith, McNair, McAuliffe, Jarvis, Onizuka.
>
> These names will be written under other skies.
>
> --
> Ken MacLeod
Sig
Priscilla
--
"It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it."
--G.K. Chesterton
Mary Kay Kare
> Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> >
> > I'm listening to the NASA briefing via CSPAN, and I'm impressed with
> > both the passion and professionalism of Ron Dittemore, the shuttle
> > program manager.
>
> Just a quick note here (hi, everyone, I'm still alive, by the way) -- I
> saw an interview earlier today with Buzz Aldrin, in which he tearfully
> quoted some poetry by Jordin Kare.
>
It was the next to the last verse from Jordin's song FIRE IN THE SKY.
It's the verse he added to the song after the Challenger disaster. It
always makes me tear up too. The salient line is, "They passed from us
to glory riding fire in the sky." We're urgently searching for anyone
who might have a tape of this we could copy. Contact me at
mar...@kare.ws ro Jordin at jtk...@attglobal.net.
MKK
--
You want rock & roll that isn't rude?
I thought that's what it was for.
-Arthur Hlavaty
Kathy Routliffe
>
> Gus, Roger, Ed...
>
> Dick, Mike, El, Judy, Ron, Greg, Christa...
>
> Vladimir, Georgi, Viktor, Vladislav...
>
> Take care of your new brothers and sisters for us, willya?
After all day, this post is what brought me to tears, don't know why.
--
Kathy R.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Humor is the practice of the creatively inappropriate.
Avram Grumer
Joel Rosenberg <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote:
> Then you either should or shouldn't tune into CSPAN's next call-in
> show. There was one fellow who explained that this wasn't a time for
> partisanship or taking political advantage, and we all ought to band
> together, and not spend any more money on spaceflight while some
> people in the US don't have health insurance, and another who ranted
> about the security recklessness of having an Israeli on board, and so
> forth.
This reminds me of one of my favorite bits of just-post-9/11 writing:
Why the Bombings Mean That We Must Support My Politics
http://adequacy.org/stories/2001.9.12.102423.271.html
: Many people will use this terrible tragedy as an excuse to put
: through a political agenda other than my own. This tawdry abuse of
: human suffering for political gain sickens me to the core of my
: being. Those people who have different political views from me ought
: to be ashamed of themselves for thinking of cheap partisan
: point-scoring at a time like this. In any case, what this tragedy
: really shows us is that, so far from putting into practice political
: views other than my own, it is precisely my political agenda which
: ought to be advanced.
Kip Williams
> Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>
>>I'm listening to the NASA briefing via CSPAN, and I'm impressed with
>>both the passion and professionalism of Ron Dittemore, the shuttle
>>program manager.
>
> Just a quick note here (hi, everyone, I'm still alive, by the way) -- I
> saw an interview earlier today with Buzz Aldrin, in which he tearfully
> quoted some poetry by Jordin Kare.
If that turns up anywhere linkable, I hope someone out there will
kindly direct me to it.
I wish the workmen hadn't removed my flag mount. I want to honor our
people.
(Ray, hi. We've missed you.)
--
--Kip
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
wrote:
snip
>It was the next to the last verse from Jordin's song FIRE IN THE SKY.
>It's the verse he added to the song after the Challenger disaster. It
>always makes me tear up too. The salient line is, "They passed from us
>to glory riding fire in the sky." We're urgently searching for anyone
>who might have a tape of this we could copy. Contact me at
>mar...@kare.ws ro Jordin at jtk...@attglobal.net.
I wish I'd heard it...is Jordin going to the conference at KSC next
week? That is, if it's still on...my husband will be there.
jrw
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
<kat...@rcnchicago.com> wrote:
snip
>After all day, this post is what brought me to tears, don't know why.
Me too.
And rereading it has the same effect.
jrw
Keith F. Lynch
> I imagine that at 200,000 feet, it was pretty darn cold, regardless
> of whether one was over Florida or Texas.
At their speed, the wind chill was several thousand degrees.
Cally Soukup
> CNN is now showing it, over and over, while telephone voices speculate.
> I don't know why this should feel worse than, say, an airplane
> crash. But it does.
> Poor guys. I hope it was quick. I hope they never knew.
> Crap.
Yes. Damn.
The telemetry they lost just before they lost tracking was in the left
wing, the same wing struck by the bit of insulation on takeoff. They
say the shuttle was at its highest temperature load when they lost
telemetry. It might be coincidence, but I rather doubt it.
Damn.
--
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend
to the death your right to say it." -- Beatrice Hall
Cally Soukup sou...@pobox.com
David Dyer-Bennet
> Joel Rosenberg <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote:
> > ... I've seen it explode enough, myself. ...
>
> Another benefit of a text-only account.
>
> I have a TV, but I haven't turned it on.
I actually spent some time looking around for video on the net just
now, and found almost nothing. And the two links I *did* find I
couldn't make work. Even by starting up Windows Media Player and
putting in the URL directly.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, dd...@dd-b.net / http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in
news:Pine.SGI.4.31.030201...@fsgi01.fnal.gov:
> On Sat, 1 Feb 2003, Jim Battista wrote:
>
>> "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote in
>> news:b1h1uu$qsu$1...@panix2.panix.com:
>>
>> > January 27th, 1967, January 28th, 1986, and now February 1st, 2003.
>> > (Odd how all three were at about the same time of year.)
>>
>> What time of the year were the big Soviet failures (the dead cosmonauts
>> coming back,
>
> Fortunately for you, I have gotten out some refernce books, in case I
> get another call from TV reporters like the one that woke me up today.
>
> Aboard Soyuz 1, Vladimir Komarov died on 24 April 1967.
>
> Aboard Soyuz 11, G. Dobrovolsky, V. Volkov, V. Patsayev died on 29 June
> 1971.
>
>> the unmanned N-1 explosion,
>
> There were a bunch of N-1 launches, all failures.
>
>> and that one where people actually got to use the escape-rocket-system),
>
> Soyuz T-10, 27 September 1983.
>
>> and that horrific Chinese launch that killed a whole bunch of villagers?
>
> I don't know anything about this one. Some googling reveals that six
> people were killed, 57 injured, in a Long March 3B failure on 14
> February 1996.
>
> I don't think this all adds up to a pattern, especially since you haven't
> specified what all these incidents have in common. Not all of there were
> fatal. There have been other fatalities in rocketry and spaceflight at
> other times. There is no reason to believe that spaceflight accidents
> are more likely to happen at a particular time of year.
I've been in shock all day, and I had to do something. So I did some
research and compiled a list of those gallant people who gave their lives
in humanity's ongoing adventures into space. It includes all astronauts
and cosmonauts I determined have perished in the line of duty during
missions or training, but not the "shadow" cosmonauts rumored over the
years. I thought I'd post the list somewhere in order to obtain any
appropriate corrections, and this seems the right part of the thread.
(Note that Bondarenko died in a training mission in a manner similar to our
Apollo 1 tragedy -- if the Soviets hadn't been so paranoid about keeping
such information to themselves, perhaps we would not have lost Grissom,
White and Chaffee.)
Here is the list:
Valentin Vasilyevich Bondarenko
Died March 23, 1961 (training accident, fire in pressurized spacecraft
simulator with pure oxygen atmosphere)
Apollo 204 (Apollo 1)
Virgil I. "Gus" Grissom, Commander
Edward White, Command Pilot
Roger Chaffee, Pilot
Died January 27, 1967 (training accident, fire in pressurized capsule with
pure oxygen atmosphere)
Soyuz 1
Vladimir Mikhaylovich Komarov, Commander (solo flight)
Died April 24, 1967 (chutes tangled during re-entry causing crash landing)
Soyuz 11
Georgy Timofeyevich Dobrovolsky, Commander
Victor Ivanovich Patsaev, Test Engineer
Vladislav Nikolayevich Volkov, Flight Engineer
Died June 30, 1971 (accidental cabin depressurization upon re-entry)
STS-51-L (Challenger)
Francis R. Scobee, Commander
Michael J. Smith, Pilot
Judith A. Resnik, Mission Specialist 1
Ellison S. Onizuka, Mission Specialist 2
Ronald E. McNair, Mission Specialist 3
Gregory B. Jarvis, Payload Specialist 1
Sharon Christa McAuliffe, Payload Specialist 2 (TISP)
Died January 28, 1986 (faulty O-ring caused explosion 73 seconds after
liftoff)
STS-107 (Columbia)
Rick Douglas Husband, Commander
William C. "Willie" McCool, Pilot
Dave Brown, Mission Specialist 1
Kalpana Chawla, Mission Specialist 2
Mike Anderson, Mission Specialist 3, Payload Commander
Laurel Clark, Mission Specialist 4
Ilan Ramon, Payload Specialist 1 (Israeli Space Agency)
Died February 1, 2003 (explosion after re-entry -- cause TBD)
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
letters to be typed in news:b1h95h$858$1...@news1.radix.net:
> In article <b1h1uu$qsu$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>>
>> I never thought I'd say this, but I'm sure glad I'm not aboard the
>> International Space Station right now.
>
> Reportedly the ISS has a Soyuz docked alongside; they're not cut off
> completely should an emergency arise.
>
> At: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/
>
> There is a straw poll about continuing manned space flight.
>
> With about 8,000 responses in it's running 81 percent in favor of
> continuing despite the risks. Vote your conscience, but VOTE.
88% just now when I voted (in favor, natch).
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
following letters to be typed in news:b1gnrr$nc$1...@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no:
> In article <Xns931560817E0...@166.84.1.69>,
> Michael R Weholt <awnb...@panix.com> wrote:
>>NASA lost contact with her at 9:00am EST. She was supposed to land at
>>9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about where she is...
>
> Oh fuck, not again.
>
> Was just talking elsewhere about the Challenger disaster, on its 17th
> anniversary.
>
> Fuck.
Just yesterday, I was coming back to the office from an errand, and saw a
group of children accompanied by their teacher. The teacher was telling
the guard they were from Christa McAuliffe Middle School, and of course
this reminded me of the Challenger....
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
Also Cosmonaut Valentin Vasilyevich Bondarenko, who died in a training
accident on 23 March 1961. He was taking part in medical studies in a
spacecraft simulator, under compression with a pure oxygen atmosphere.
There was a fire.... Yes, I know, strangely similar to the cabin fire
which claimed the lives of Grissom, White and Chaffee, six years later.
lightning
128987.news.dfncis.de:
> I haven't yet encountered any anti-space rhetoric, which I find
> interesting. Has anyone else? Even in mainstream news sources - and in
> Bush's address - I'm seeing a lot of affirmations of the importance of
> space exploration.
Closest I saw was a Talking Head on the BBC who was using the disaster
as a soapbox for his anti-manned spaceflight views. In his view, manned
spaceflight was a dangerous waste of money, doing nothing that couldn't
be done better and cheaper by robots.
It's a common attitude among scientists -- they assume that, if we
stopped doing manned spaceflight, the money spent on the Shuttle would
be diverted to *their* pet programs. IMHO, without the manned program,
*all* money for spaceflight would dry up.
--
lightn...@yahoo.com http://lightningbug.blogspot.com
"Theologians and philosophers are both looking for a black cat in a coal
cellar at midnight. Difference is, theologians bring one in with them."
Andre Lieven
day to that, just now ), on a T-38 training flight near Ellington AFB,
when his aircraft ingested a pair of geese, and one killed an engine,
while another smashed the canopy of the T-38. HIs ejection was at too
low an altitude, and his body was found near the T-38 wreckage.
Elliott See and Charlie "Chuck" Bassett, died Feb 28, 1966, in their
T-38, on approach to St Louis, in bad weather. Their aircraft's
landing gear impacted the building in which their Gemini 9 spacecraft
was inside of, and the plane impacted beyond it.
Andre
--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.
Marilee J. Layman
wrote:
>Ray Radlein <rayra...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm listening to the NASA briefing via CSPAN, and I'm impressed with
>> > both the passion and professionalism of Ron Dittemore, the shuttle
>> > program manager.
>>
>> Just a quick note here (hi, everyone, I'm still alive, by the way) -- I
>> saw an interview earlier today with Buzz Aldrin, in which he tearfully
>> quoted some poetry by Jordin Kare.
>>
>
>It was the next to the last verse from Jordin's song FIRE IN THE SKY.
>It's the verse he added to the song after the Challenger disaster. It
>always makes me tear up too. The salient line is, "They passed from us
>to glory riding fire in the sky." We're urgently searching for anyone
>who might have a tape of this we could copy. Contact me at
>mar...@kare.ws ro Jordin at jtk...@attglobal.net.
I have this on two tapes: Jordin's Fire in the Sky tape (you were
still Mary Kay Jackson then!) and the live Challenger Memorial tape (I
just listened to both to make sure they have that last verse). Would
you like copies of the entire tapes? I have a double tape deck, it's
no problem.
p&e
Marilee J. Layman
uswest.net are forged)" <oyþ@earthlink.net> wrote:
>lei...@pvv.ntnu.no (Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y) appears to have caused the
>following letters to be typed in news:b1gnrr$nc$1...@tyfon.itea.ntnu.no:
>
>> In article <Xns931560817E0...@166.84.1.69>,
>> Michael R Weholt <awnb...@panix.com> wrote:
>>>NASA lost contact with her at 9:00am EST. She was supposed to land at
>>>9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about where she is...
>>
>> Oh fuck, not again.
>>
>> Was just talking elsewhere about the Challenger disaster, on its 17th
>> anniversary.
>>
>> Fuck.
>
>Just yesterday, I was coming back to the office from an errand, and saw a
>group of children accompanied by their teacher. The teacher was telling
>the guard they were from Christa McAuliffe Middle School, and of course
>this reminded me of the Challenger....
The local news showed people at Air & Space gathered around a big TV
monitor watching and crying. The museum still had the movable-type
board next to the TV set with the landing time.
John Smith
>Closest I saw was a Talking Head on the BBC who was using the disaster
>as a soapbox for his anti-manned spaceflight views. In his view, manned
>spaceflight was a dangerous waste of money, doing nothing that couldn't
>be done better and cheaper by robots.
>
>It's a common attitude among scientists
Only among scientists who are not involved in space flight.
John Smith
>Kevin J. Maroney <k...@panix.com> wrote:
>> I imagine that at 200,000 feet, it was pretty darn cold, regardless
>> of whether one was over Florida or Texas.
>
>At their speed, the wind chill was several thousand degrees.
Wind chill can't be several _thousand_ degrees. But it was pretty fucking
cold.
Mary Kay Kare
>
> I have this on two tapes: Jordin's Fire in the Sky tape (you were
> still Mary Kay Jackson then!) and the live Challenger Memorial tape (I
> just listened to both to make sure they have that last verse). Would
> you like copies of the entire tapes? I have a double tape deck, it's
> no problem.
>
I seem to have been terribly unclear as I've gotten two versions of this
offer. What we're looking for is a copy of any tape someone might have
of Aldrin reading the song on air. We missed it entirely and, in fact,
knew nothing about this disaster until after lunch when I finally turned
on the radio. We do have copies of the tape where Jordin does the song.
Mary Kay Kare
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
wrote:
snip
>Nope. He's got a looming dealine on a big project.
Dang. I was half hoping we could run into each other at Epcot.
jrw
mike weber
<jonme...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>What were the weather conditions in Florida when Columbia was
>launched? It's been unusually cold throughout most of the South this
>year.
>
Since when is Atlanta (where it's been rather warmer than usual a lot
of the time) not part of the South?
--
mike weber mike....@electronictiger.com
==========================================================
The man who sets out to carry a cat by its tail learns
something that will always be useful and which never will
grow dim or doubtful. -- Mark Twain.
Book Reviews & More -- http://electronictiger.com
mike weber
Magnar Kj|nn|y) wrote:
>In article <Xns931560817E0...@166.84.1.69>,
>Michael R Weholt <awnb...@panix.com> wrote:
>>NASA lost contact with her at 9:00am EST. She was supposed to land at
>>9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about where she is...
>
>Oh fuck, not again.
>
>Was just talking elsewhere about the Challenger disaster, on its 17th
>anniversary.
>
>Fuck.
>
The day after the Challenger explostion, i came into posession of
about a hundred old issues of "Analog".
I picked one up at random, opened it, and found myself reading
Campbell's editorial about the Apollo One fire.
He said something like "...pioneering is basically finding new ways to
die unexpectedly..."
mike weber
wrote:
>Michael R Weholt wrote:
>>
>> NASA lost contact with her at 9:00am EST. She was supposed
>> to land at 9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about
>> where she is...
>
>Just after noon EDT, I woke up, turned on the computer,
>dialed up, and started reading rasff. The last thread
>in line was this one. I've been flipping back and forth
>between MSNBC and CNN ever since. I've been on the verge
>of tears the whole time. I want to swear, I want to hit
>something, I have to fight to keep my teeth from grinding.
You and i have much in common (perhaps more than you realise).
I want to smash something...
Omega
<kat...@rcnchicago.com> writes
>Christopher K Davis wrote:
>>
>> Gus, Roger, Ed...
>>
>> Dick, Mike, El, Judy, Ron, Greg, Christa...
>>
>> Vladimir, Georgi, Viktor, Vladislav...
>>
>> Take care of your new brothers and sisters for us, willya?
>
>After all day, this post is what brought me to tears, don't know why.
>
packing all these books but...
--
Omega
"The chances of anything man-like on mars are a million to one," he said.
H. G. Wells The War Of The Worlds
Omega
<riv...@comcast.net> writes
>
>"Richard Eney" <dic...@radix.net> wrote in message
>news:b1h95h$858$1...@news1.radix.net...
>> In article <b1h1uu$qsu$1...@panix2.panix.com>,
>> Keith F. Lynch <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >the International Space Station right now.
>>
>> Reportedly the ISS has a Soyuz docked alongside; they're
>> not cut off completely should an emergency arise.
>
>there was no way U.S. spaceflight would be grounded for anywhere near
>as long as it was after the Challenger disaster, and cited the ISS
>astronauts as a primary reason. They may be coming home in a shuttle
>after all.
>
>I think I also heard him say that the ISS can receive supplies by
>rocket, but I'm not entirely sure. If they can be resupplied, they may
>just stay up there a bit longer than expected.
According to the BBC there's a Russian cargo vessel going up on Sunday.
>
>> At: http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/
>>
>> There is a straw poll about continuing manned space flight.
>>
>> With about 8,000 responses in it's running 81 percent in favor
>> of continuing despite the risks. Vote your conscience, but
>> VOTE.
>
>I haven't yet encountered any anti-space rhetoric, which I find
>interesting. Has anyone else? Even in mainstream news sources - and in
>Bush's address - I'm seeing a lot of affirmations of the importance of
>space exploration.
>
I think some of them are thinking we've put too much in to drop the
entire programme now. Whatever their reasoning I just hope they do
continue. I think this may put the dampers on the Mars mission though.
--
Omega
"If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible, he
is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very
probably wrong."
Arthur C. Clarke 9 August 1969
Janet Kegg
wrote:
>Ray Radlein <rayra...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Joel Rosenberg wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm listening to the NASA briefing via CSPAN, and I'm impressed with
>> > both the passion and professionalism of Ron Dittemore, the shuttle
>> > program manager.
>>
>> Just a quick note here (hi, everyone, I'm still alive, by the way) -- I
>> saw an interview earlier today with Buzz Aldrin, in which he tearfully
>> quoted some poetry by Jordin Kare.
>>
>
>It was the next to the last verse from Jordin's song FIRE IN THE SKY.
>It's the verse he added to the song after the Challenger disaster. It
>always makes me tear up too. The salient line is, "They passed from us
>to glory riding fire in the sky." We're urgently searching for anyone
>who might have a tape of this we could copy. Contact me at
>mar...@kare.ws ro Jordin at jtk...@attglobal.net.
Any luck?
I found a mention of Aldrin and the poem in a space.com article at
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/sts107_reacts_030201.html that
says Aldrin spoke about Columbia on NBC News: "Later, Aldrin read
part of a poem sent to him via e-mail and commemorating the Columbia
loss. He began to cry and could not finish the poem."
The MSNBC Web site offers several videos of its coverage at
http://www.msnbc.com/news/867318.asp?cp1=1 but I don't have windows
media player so I couldn't watch the likely one ("America grieves") to
see if that bit was included.
-- Janet
Arthur D. Hlavaty
wrote:
>Joel Rosenberg <jo...@ellegon.com> wrote:
>> There was one fellow who explained that ... we all ought ... not
>> spend any more money on spaceflight while some people in the US
>> don't have health insurance, ...
>
>Speaking as one of those in the US who doesn't have health insurance,
>let me say that this "fellow" doesn't speak for me. I am not someone's
>political football, to be used as a poster child for the cause de jour
>without my consent.
>
>While I would prefer that space flight was funded privately, if the
>government must tax us, I'd rather the money be spent on space science
>than on medical coverage or other forms of charity.
I have never understood that weird kind of money that has to be spent
on either space exploration or poor people. I guess it's the opposite
of the government defense money that doesn't cause inflation the way
other government spending does.
--
Arthur D.Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
Church of the SuperGenius in Wile E. we trust
E-zine available on request
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> Ray Radlein wrote:
> > Joel Rosenberg wrote:
> >
> >>I'm listening to the NASA briefing via CSPAN, and I'm impressed with
> >>both the passion and professionalism of Ron Dittemore, the shuttle
> >>program manager.
> >
> > Just a quick note here (hi, everyone, I'm still alive, by the way) -- I
> > saw an interview earlier today with Buzz Aldrin, in which he tearfully
> > quoted some poetry by Jordin Kare.
>
> If that turns up anywhere linkable, I hope someone out there will
> kindly direct me to it.
>
> I wish the workmen hadn't removed my flag mount. I want to honor our
> people.
>
> (Ray, hi. We've missed you.)
I've been flyng a Peace flag for some time (as several other hundred
people in this and other towns), but alas, it's hanged horizontally from
my window so it's hard to see how to pull it to half-mast. Pity. It
would have been particularly apt.
--
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan - ada...@despammed.com - this is a valid address
homepage: http://www.fantascienza.net/sfpeople/elethiomel
English blog: http://annafdd.blogspot.com/
Blog in italiano: http://fulminiesaette.blogspot.com
Kip Williams
> The MSNBC Web site offers several videos of its coverage at
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/867318.asp?cp1=1 but I don't have windows
> media player so I couldn't watch the likely one ("America grieves") to
> see if that bit was included.
It isn't, unfortunately. The video starts with a really stupid ad,
too. Off-puttingly so.
--
--Kip (Williams) ...at members.cox.net/kipw
"Why, what a splendid trifle, young man! You and your friends may
travel for free!" "Cor!" "Hooray for Tommy!" --Tommy and his Trifle
lightning
news:o3ip3vcl8i0im2n6c...@4ax.com:
*Manned* space flight. Very common attitude for those working on
unmanned programs. "The *really important* stuff (ie, the stuff *I'm*
doing) is done better & cheaper by robots ..."
James Nicoll
>Francis R. Scobee, Commander
>Michael J. Smith, Pilot
>Judith A. Resnik, Mission Specialist 1
>Ellison S. Onizuka, Mission Specialist 2
>Ronald E. McNair, Mission Specialist 3
>Gregory B. Jarvis, Payload Specialist 1
>Sharon Christa McAuliffe, Payload Specialist 2 (TISP)
>Died January 28, 1986 (faulty O-ring caused explosion 73 seconds after
>liftoff)
I don't think it exploded. The burn-through in the SRB caused
STS-51-L ruptured the ET and caused to Challenger fly in a manner that
made it come apart from aerodynamic forces.
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/missions/51-l/docs/rogers-commission/
Chapter three (accident).
--
"Repress the urge to sprout wings or self-ignite!...This man's an
Episcopalian!...They have definite views."
Pibgorn Oct 31/02
Michalak
> NASA lost contact with her at 9:00am EST. She was supposed to land at
> 9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about where she is...
(I'm not religious, but this moved me when I heard it in "The Right Stuff".)
THE AIRMEN'S HYMN
Verse 1 (All Harmony)
Almighty Father of the sky
Be with our airmen when they fly,
And keep them in thy loving care
Amid the perils of the air,
O let our cry come unto thee
For those who fly o'er land and sea.
Verse 2 (Upper voices only)
Strong Son of Man, save those who fly
Swift-winged across the uncharted sky,
Be with them always in the air,
In darkening storms or sunlight fair
(All unison)
O'er land and ocean safely bear
All those in peril in the air.
Verse 3 (Lower voices only)
O holy spirit, God's own power
Give peace in sudden dangers hour,
O wind of heaven by thy might
Save all who dare the eagles flight,
(All unison)
And keep them in thy watchful care
From every peril in the air.
Verse 4 (All unison)
O trinity of love and might,
Be with our airmen day and night,
In peace or war midst friend or foe,
Be with them whereso'er they go.
Thus shall our prayers ascend to thee
With those who fly o'er land and sea.
Douglas Berry
mike weber <mike....@electronictiger.com> warmed at our fire and
told this tale:
>Since when is Atlanta (where it's been rather warmer than usual a lot
>of the time) not part of the South?
When I was stationed at Fort Benning, the good people of Columbus, Ga
seemed to consider Atlanta as an outpost of Northern oppression.
--
Douglas E. Berry grid...@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Ken MacLeod
<mich...@diac.com> writes
>Michael R Weholt <awnb...@panix.com> wrote in message news:<Xns931560817E0C2awn
>breel...@166.84.1.69>...
>> NASA lost contact with her at 9:00am EST. She was supposed to land at
>> 9:16am EST. It's now 9:25am with no word about where she is...
>
>(I'm not religious, but this moved me when I heard it in "The Right Stuff".)
>
>
>THE AIRMEN'S HYMN
>
>Verse 1 (All Harmony)
>
>Almighty Father of the sky
>Be with our airmen when they fly,
>And keep them in thy loving care
>Amid the perils of the air,
>O let our cry come unto thee
>For those who fly o'er land and sea.
>
This may have inspired Heinlein's:
Almighty Ruler of the All
Whose power extends to great and small
Who guides the stars with steadfast law
Whose least creation fills with awe -
Extend thy mercy and thy grace
to those who venture into space.
--
Ken MacLeod
John Smith
>John Smith <bit...@biteme.org> wrote in
>news:o3ip3vcl8i0im2n6c...@4ax.com:
>
>> lightning <lightn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Closest I saw was a Talking Head on the BBC who was using the
>>>disaster as a soapbox for his anti-manned spaceflight views. In
>>>his view, manned spaceflight was a dangerous waste of money, doing
>>>nothing that couldn't be done better and cheaper by robots.
>>>
>>>It's a common attitude among scientists
>>
>> Only among scientists who are not involved in space flight.
>
>*Manned* space flight. Very common attitude for those working on
>unmanned programs. "The *really important* stuff (ie, the stuff *I'm*
>doing) is done better & cheaper by robots ..."
Some of them say that. Most of those who do stop when they try to do
something that needs a live person on the scene. Which happens regularly.
John Smith
>I think some of them are thinking we've put too much in to drop the
>entire programme now. Whatever their reasoning I just hope they do
>continue. I think this may put the dampers on the Mars mission though.
We _can't_ kill the space program, or even just the shuttle. We have
absolutely nothing even close to the launch capacity of the shuttle, and
it's too important to national security to stop launches.
Kip Williams
> In article <859bef64.03020...@posting.google.com>, Michalak
> <mich...@diac.com> writes
>>
>>Verse 1 (All Harmony)
>>
>>Almighty Father of the sky
>>Be with our airmen when they fly,
>>And keep them in thy loving care
>>Amid the perils of the air,
>>O let our cry come unto thee
>>For those who fly o'er land and sea.
>
> This may have inspired Heinlein's:
>
> Almighty Ruler of the All
> Whose power extends to great and small
> Who guides the stars with steadfast law
> Whose least creation fills with awe -
> Extend thy mercy and thy grace
> to those who venture into space.
Exactly so. It's The Navy Hymn, "Eternal Father," by Dykes, which is
referred to in _The Right Stuff_ (book), as being heard at military
funerals, particularly Navy and Air Force. They used to play it at
sign-off time on KWGN in Denver (where it sunk into my spine and
skeleton; I have one or two audio tapes of it, off the TV). Kind of
odd; I figure they had a veteran on staff, perhaps.
I find the song beautiful and affecting. If this was a less serious
thread, I'd pass along the verses I proposed for time travelers and
the Fellowship of the Ring. We were far enough from any disasters at
the time that it didn't seem too blasphemous to me. (As it is, I
went back and forth over even mentioning it.)
Simon Bradshaw
k...@libertaria.demon.co.uk (Ken MacLeod) wrote:
> In article <3vtn3vo5r38h6uaom...@4ax.com>, Sue Mason
> <s...@arctic-fox.freeserve.co.uk> writes
> >Glowing like a star.
> >
>
> I remembered this apt description when I saw it on the news.
>
> I heard about it from Charlie Stross less than an hour after it
> happened. The way it took shape in my mind was 'We lost a spaceship.'
>
> >This is so sad, those poor people, their poor families.
> >
>
> Yes.
>
> Husband, McCool, Anderson, Brown, Chawla, Clark, Ramon.
>
> Komarov, Grissom, White, Chaffee, Dobrovolsky, Volkov, Patsayev,
> Resnick, Scobee, Smith, McNair, McAuliffe, Jarvis, Onizuka.
>
> These names will be written under other skies.
Exactly two weeks before yesterday's events, I was standing in front of
the Astronaut Memorial at the Kennedy Space Center. As the PA broadcast
live audio feed from Columbia, launched two days earlier, I contemplated
the names scattered thinly across the memorial slab, and wondered how long
it would be before more would be engraved amongst them.
Not for a moment did I think that the names would be those of the very
astronauts whose voices I was listening to.
--
Simon Bradshaw sjbra...@cix.co.uk
http://www.cix.co.uk/~sjbradshaw
*** The Science Fiction Foundation ***
http://www.sf-foundation.org
Tim Illingworth
<4L5CZIAY...@libertaria.demon.co.uk>
k...@libertaria.demon.co.uk "Ken MacLeod" wrote:
I suspect they're both derivative of "Eternal Father, strong to save"
which is in my hymn book under "For Those At Sea". [Words: W Whiting;
Tune: "Melita", by J B Dykes.]
Tim
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Illingworth t...@smof.demon.co.uk Go not to Usenet for advice, for
Coveney, tim...@compuserve.com they will say both 'No' and 'Yes'
Cambs, UK tim...@cix.co.uk and 'Try Another Newsgroup'
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mary Kay Kare
> Any luck?
We've got a lead on someone who might have a tape. I've emailed but
haven't heard back. If that doesn't pan out, I'll call the local NBC
affiliate and see what they can do, as a couple of people have
suggested.
>
> I found a mention of Aldrin and the poem in a space.com article at
> http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/sts107_reacts_030201.html that
> says Aldrin spoke about Columbia on NBC News: "Later, Aldrin read
> part of a poem sent to him via e-mail and commemorating the Columbia
> loss. He began to cry and could not finish the poem."
>
> The MSNBC Web site offers several videos of its coverage at
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/867318.asp?cp1=1 but I don't have windows
> media player so I couldn't watch the likely one ("America grieves") to
> see if that bit was included.
>
I've forwarded this to Jordin to check.
Petrea Mitchell
Jon Meltzer <jonme...@mindspring.com> strode forth and proclaimed:
> On 1 Feb 2003 12:59:58 -0500, "Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net>
> wrote:
[...]
>>January 27th, 1967, January 28th, 1986, and now February 1st, 2003.
>>(Odd how all three were at about the same time of year.)
>
> Odd? Remember Feynman and the ice water?
>
> What were the weather conditions in Florida when Columbia was
> launched? It's been unusually cold throughout most of the South this
> year.
During the 2pm (CT) news conference, one reporter asked if there had
been previous instances of material coming off the fuel tank during
liftoff, as there was during Columbia's last launch, and one of the
NASA people said yes, and gave 3 or 4 mission numbers as examples. He
went on to say that the material may just be insulation, or it can be
a mixture of insulation and *ice*.
The explanation that followed left out what may be important details,
but runs something like this: A lot of water is being sprayed around
just before/during liftoff to absorb shockwaves that are coming into the
ground, so they don't just ricochet back at full strength and potentially
harm the shuttle. This water forming ice on the fuel tank is a known
problem, and a warming device of some sort (I believe the exact term was
"warming cap") is attached to the tank until 1 minute before liftoff.
So if the stuff that came off the tank is eventually blamed, we may be
able to say that cold weather is a linking factor. I don't know what the
exact conditions were at Columbia's last launch, though.
--
/
Petrea Mitchell <|> <|> <pr...@m5p.com> <mit...@osm.com>
"ArrkkkkKKKKKKK ! Interpolly wants a crackpot ! ArrkkkkKKKKKKK !"
---Simon Slavin on alt.fan.goons
Michael J. Lowrey
>
> After we lost the Challenger, I was talking with my family about the
> risks of a shuttle flight. I said I would still go, if the chances
> were 75% of making it back home...I would go if they were 50%...I
> would go if they were as low as 40%...just to escape the Earth and get
> Out There, it would be worth it.
>
> I hope the crew of the Columbia felt that way too. I think they must
> have. We are really going to miss them.
My union was picketing an obdurate state senator Saturday morning, and
our local president called for a minute of silence for the crew. There
were many tears, not a few prayers, and not one damn murmur of dissent.
To quote a tearful Cicatrice, after she called and told me: "I'd still
go tomorrow."
AMEN!
--
Michael J. Lowrey
in tears again
Marilee J. Layman
Also known as The Navy Hymn which we sang every Sunday on base.
--
Marilee J. Layman
Handmade Bali Sterling Beads at Wholesale
http://www.basicbali.com
Michalak
<snip Airman's Hymn and Spaceman's Hymn speculation>
> Exactly so. It's The Navy Hymn, "Eternal Father," by Dykes, which is
> referred to in _The Right Stuff_ (book), as being heard at military
> funerals, particularly Navy and Air Force. They used to play it at
> sign-off time on KWGN in Denver (where it sunk into my spine and
> skeleton; I have one or two audio tapes of it, off the TV). Kind of
> odd; I figure they had a veteran on staff, perhaps.
I was never up late enough when Channel 2 still signed off the air at
night. Though I remember that it did when I was young(er). I guess
they changed it to the Airman's Hymn in the movie version since I
definitely remember the bit about "dare the eagles flight". I even
started a (very bad) short story by that title when I was 16.
> I find the song beautiful and affecting. If this was a less serious
> thread, I'd pass along the verses I proposed for time travelers and
> the Fellowship of the Ring. We were far enough from any disasters at
> the time that it didn't seem too blasphemous to me. (As it is, I
> went back and forth over even mentioning it.)
Start a new thread. People need to laugh. BTW, as long as I'm
thinking of it do you know of any hymn like songs expressing
sentiments like the hope for safety and bravery in trying times but
not mentioning god? I'm not religious, but I like the songs I used to
sing when I was in the choir. I would very much like to learn a few.
I still like them, I just feel a little odd singing things "Be Not
Afraid" since I don't believe in God. But I love how they sound.
Michalak
Michael R Weholt
news:859bef64.03020...@posting.google.com:
> Start a new thread. People need to laugh. BTW, as long as I'm
> thinking of it do you know of any hymn like songs expressing
> sentiments like the hope for safety and bravery in trying times
> but not mentioning god? I'm not religious, but I like the songs I
> used to sing when I was in the choir. I would very much like to
> learn a few.
>
> I still like them, I just feel a little odd singing things "Be Not
> Afraid" since I don't believe in God. But I love how they sound.
I believe in absolute freedom of religion which includes taking all
the bits you like from any particular religion and appropriating it
for your own delight, and then politely ignoring the parts that
require you to believe in the supernatural bits.
I love "Ave Maria". I love a lot of Christmas stuff. I love the Book
of Common Prayer. And so forth. Even though I don't believe I've
ever for even one moment of my entire life bought the God Bit.
Moreover, I'm convinced that if by some impossibly remote chance
there turns out to be a God, I will spend eternity by his side as a
reward for my exceeding powers of discernment.
Go ahead and sing your hymns, is what I say. If there is a God and
he doesn't get what you are doing, screw Him. You don't want to hang
around a frump like that anyway. Not for all eternity.
--
mrw
Ian Burrell
John Smith <bit...@biteme.org> wrote:
>
>We _can't_ kill the space program, or even just the shuttle. We have
>absolutely nothing even close to the launch capacity of the shuttle, and
>it's too important to national security to stop launches.
>
The Titan 4B that the military uses to launch satellites has a payload
to LEO of 21,000 kg. The Shuttle maximum payload is 24,000 kg. The
military no longer launches payloads on the Shuttle. There have been
no commercial payloads on the Shuttle since Challenger.
The Shuttle is only thing that can do space station assembly and
in-space experiments. That is an important capability but isn't vital
to national security.
- Ian
--
Any sufficiently convoluted argument can be made to appear to be
science as the layman equates incomprehensibility with science.
Shane Stezelberger
Lieven) wrote:
>Theodore "Ted" Freeman, died late October, 1964 ( I can't find a precise
>day to that, just now ), on a T-38 training flight near Ellington AFB,
>when his aircraft ingested a pair of geese, and one killed an engine,
>while another smashed the canopy of the T-38. HIs ejection was at too
>low an altitude, and his body was found near the T-38 wreckage.
31 October 1964, if I recall correctly.
His funeral at Arlington four(?) days later was the last occasion
on which all astronauts were together in one place.
In addition to See and Bassett, there was Clifton C. Williams,
killed 05 November 1967 near Pensacola while flying home from the
Cape in a T-38 to his pregnant wife in Houston. Had he lived, he
almost certainly would have been Lunar Module Pilot for the
second Moon landing -- a slot later filled by Alan Bean at, I
understand, Pete Conrad's request. That is why there are four
stars on the Apollo 12 mission patch.
There was also Edward Givens, killed in an automobile accident
in, I believe, June 1968. There have since been other active
astronauts killed in aircraft mishaps, such as Sonny Carter and
S. David Griggs. The Soviets/Russians have lost active
cosmonauts to a variety of "mundane" causes, e.g. Pavel
Belyayev(sp)?
--
Shane Stezelberger
sstezel at erols dot kom
Laurel, MD
mike weber
wrote:
Hell, it's too important to the people who have satellite TV, if you
want a *real* reason for not cutting back.
Shane Stezelberger
<batt...@unt.edu> wrote:
>>> the unmanned N-1 explosion,
>>
>> There were a bunch of N-1 launches, all failures.
>
>Yah. I meant that one in '68 or '69 that exploded on the pad killing
>some ground workers.
The Nedelin disaster, late October 1960, I think.
Mark Wade's Encyclopedia Astronautica is *essential*. 24 October
1964:
http://www.astronautix.com/astros/nedelin.htm
"First attempted launch of R-16 ICBM results in explosion on pad,
killing nearly 100 military, engineers, and technicians,
including Strategic Rocket Forces Marshal Nedelin."
And James Oberg's December 1990 "AIR & SPACE" article on the
disaster, also courtesy Mark Wade:
http://www.astronautix.com/articles/therophe.htm
Kip Williams
> Kip Williams <ki...@cox.net> wrote in message news:<3E3D8794...@cox.net>...
> <snip Airman's Hymn and Spaceman's Hymn speculation>
>
>>Exactly so. It's The Navy Hymn, "Eternal Father," by Dykes, which is
>>referred to in _The Right Stuff_ (book), as being heard at military
>>funerals, particularly Navy and Air Force. They used to play it at
>>sign-off time on KWGN in Denver (where it sunk into my spine and
>>skeleton; I have one or two audio tapes of it, off the TV). Kind of
>>odd; I figure they had a veteran on staff, perhaps.
>
> I was never up late enough when Channel 2 still signed off the air at
> night. Though I remember that it did when I was young(er). I guess
> they changed it to the Airman's Hymn in the movie version since I
> definitely remember the bit about "dare the eagles flight". I even
> started a (very bad) short story by that title when I was 16.
This was back around 1970, when they'd show two or three "Creature
Features" on Saturday night (or maybe it was Friday, but who cares),
and sign off afterwards. I was into them enough that I audiotaped a
movie or two, with "Mr. First Nighter's" canned intro and epilog.
("Don't forget to... lock up.") Sometimes I stayed awake the whole
time, but other times I'd space out in front of the grey eye. One
time it seemed like the whole movie went by in fast motion and the
station did its sign-off in jig time, and I awoke to a screen full
of snow.
>>I find the song beautiful and affecting. If this was a less serious
>>thread, I'd pass along the verses I proposed for time travelers and
>>the Fellowship of the Ring. We were far enough from any disasters at
>>the time that it didn't seem too blasphemous to me. (As it is, I
>>went back and forth over even mentioning it.)
>
> Start a new thread. People need to laugh.
Here's the three I did. There's at least one other person in this
group who posted to that series, but I leave the option to them.
Eternal Father, ease our fears
For those who voyage through the years.
Your eye sees all; at Thy behest
All trials work out for the best
Pray guide them, Father, all-sublime
And guard them safe in every time.
Eternal One, guide the helm
Of those who fare in Sauron's realm;
Whose names will live in valor's rolls
For braving orcs and evil trolls;
Oh, guide their feet that they may fling
In Mount Doom's flames the dreadful Ring.
Eternal Father, save the ilk
Of posters to rec.music.filk--
Who strive to heed the rules of rhyme
And match the meter to the time,
Please grant that we won't make it worse
When we set new words to a verse.
> BTW, as long as I'm
> thinking of it do you know of any hymn like songs expressing
> sentiments like the hope for safety and bravery in trying times but
> not mentioning god? I'm not religious, but I like the songs I used to
> sing when I was in the choir. I would very much like to learn a few.
Not hymnlike, but there's "I Whistle A Happy Tune" from "The King
And I" -- "Whenever I feel afraid / I hold my head erect / And
whistle a happy tune / So no one will suspect / I'm afraid."
Jim Battista
news:3e3ddd69...@news.erols.com:
> There was also Edward Givens, killed in an automobile accident
> in, I believe, June 1968. There have since been other active
> astronauts killed in aircraft mishaps, such as Sonny Carter and
> S. David Griggs. The Soviets/Russians have lost active
> cosmonauts to a variety of "mundane" causes, e.g. Pavel
> Belyayev(sp)?
Didn't Gagarin die in an aircraft crash?
--
Jim Battista
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man.
Jonathan J. Baker
>On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 22:20:29 GMT, Joel Rosenberg <jo...@ellegon.com>
>>I've seen it explode enough, myself. If there's anything to learn
>>from it, somebody more knowledgable than me can learn it.
>I saw its first landing. I was teaching a Datapro seminar in San
>Francisco and I told the class early on that I was taking an
>unscheduled break to go watch it land on TV and they were welcome to
>come with me. Everybody, even the Mexicans and Canadians in the
>group, were thrilled that it landed safely. It's so sad to see the
>film of the breakup in this landing.
I had forgotten, but yes, I saw the first landing too. I was in
11th grade, and the school set up some TVs around the building so
we could watch.
--
Jonathan Baker | Happy birthday, trees!
jjb...@panix.com |
New on Webpage: On Mendelssohn's Biur <http://www.panix.com/~jjbaker/biur.html>
Andrew Plotkin
> Start a new thread. People need to laugh. BTW, as long as I'm
> thinking of it do you know of any hymn like songs expressing
> sentiments like the hope for safety and bravery in trying times but
> not mentioning god? I'm not religious, but I like the songs I used to
> sing when I was in the choir. I would very much like to learn a few.
Does Stan Rogers' _Mary Ellen Carter_ count?
I agree with Mike Weholt, though. Sing the songs you like. I listen to
mounds of Christmas carols, and Christianity isn't even the sort of
theist I'd be if I *did* believe in God.
I figure that the differences between my own view of the Universe and
that in, say, "Julian of Norwich" (Sydney Carter) or "Sweet Hope of
Glory" (off that old Clam Chowder album) are probably a small matter
of terminology. Certainly no greater than the obvious gaping abysses
between certain self-professed Christians and others.
--Z
"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.
Keith F. Lynch
> I imagine that at 200,000 feet, it was pretty darn cold, regardless
> of whether one was over Florida or Texas.
"Keith F. Lynch" <k...@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
> At their speed, the wind chill was several thousand degrees.
John Smith <bit...@biteme.org> wrote:
> Wind chill can't be several _thousand_ degrees.
Wrong. At a high enough speed, wind starts heating rather than
cooling. Columbia was going *way* over that speed.
Even if it wasn't, air that thin has little cooling ability at any
temperature. The air pressure at 63 km is about 100,000 times thinner
than at sea level, so it has only about 100,000 times less ability to
remove heat, i.e. essentially none.
It's possible that the cold during the *launch* made a difference, for
instance if the soft insulation that broke off and hit the left wing
during launch was mixed with hard ice. But the air temperature at
63 km during reentry is irrelevant.
--
Keith F. Lynch - k...@keithlynch.net - http://keithlynch.net/
I always welcome replies to my e-mail, postings, and web pages, but
unsolicited bulk e-mail (spam) is not acceptable. Please do not send me
HTML, "rich text," or attachments, as all such email is discarded unread.
Matthew B. Tepper (posts from uswest.net are forged)
to be typed in news:3E3DE678...@cox.net:
And just staying within Rodgers & Hammerstein, I understand "You'll never
walk alone" from "Carousel" is popular in the UK.
--
Matthew B. Tepper: WWW, science fiction, classical music, ducks!
My personal home page -- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/index.html
My main music page --- http://home.earthlink.net/~oy/berlioz.html
To write to me, do for my address what Androcles did for the lion
Russell Watson is to opera as Velveeta™ is to aged cheddar cheese
Matt Austern
> On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 12:55:53 -0800, John Smith <bit...@biteme.org>
> wrote:
>
> >Omega <om...@menageri.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >>I think some of them are thinking we've put too much in to drop the
> >>entire programme now. Whatever their reasoning I just hope they do
> >>continue. I think this may put the dampers on the Mars mission though.
> >
> >We _can't_ kill the space program, or even just the shuttle. We have
> >absolutely nothing even close to the launch capacity of the shuttle, and
> >it's too important to national security to stop launches.
>
> Hell, it's too important to the people who have satellite TV, if you
> want a *real* reason for not cutting back.
Arthur C. Clarke thought that we'd need a large manned space program
for communication satellites, and he had good reason to think so, but
he was wrong. I'm not convinced that there are any industrial
applications today that require humans in space. (Obviously that may
change.) And my understanding is that, except for sending humans to
orbit, there's no compelling application for the Shuttle.
mike weber
wrote:
I was referring more to the space program as a whole.
Marilee J. Layman
I sing gospel around the house all the time. If people want me to
sing it publicly, I tell them I don't believe and do they still want
me to, and most don't. Surgery on Thursday!
Alan Winston - SSRL Admin Cmptg Mgr
>Here, Michalak <mich...@diac.com> wrote:
>
>> Start a new thread. People need to laugh. BTW, as long as I'm
>> thinking of it do you know of any hymn like songs expressing
>> sentiments like the hope for safety and bravery in trying times but
>> not mentioning god? I'm not religious, but I like the songs I used to
>> sing when I was in the choir. I would very much like to learn a few.
>
>Does Stan Rogers' _Mary Ellen Carter_ count?
It works for me. (I think it's a really splendid song. Now I'm vaguely
reminded of some discussion, maybe in an sf or fantasy book, of good songs
and stories, stories that make you strong instead of weak and stupid; can't
think where I read it.)
-- Alan
===============================================================================
Alan Winston --- WIN...@SSRL.SLAC.STANFORD.EDU
Disclaimer: I speak only for myself, not SLAC or SSRL Phone: 650/926-3056
Paper mail to: SSRL -- SLAC BIN 99, 2575 Sand Hill Rd, Menlo Park CA 94025
===============================================================================
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan
> Start a new thread. People need to laugh. BTW, as long as I'm
> thinking of it do you know of any hymn like songs expressing
> sentiments like the hope for safety and bravery in trying times but
> not mentioning god? I'm not religious, but I like the songs I used to
> sing when I was in the choir. I would very much like to learn a few.
Not a song but I posted on the composition group my translation of a
poem by Nazim Hikmet ("On Living": there is a canonical English
translation from the original Turkish on the web) that's always done the
job for me.
Life is no joke. Take it seriously.
As the squirrel does, for example.
Without waiting anything
From tomorrow or the Beyond.
You'll have nothing else to do but live.
Life is no joke. Take it seriously.
So seriously that with your hands tied, against a wall, for example
Or in a lab with a coat and goggles on
You'll die so that others may live
Others whose face you'll never see
And you'll die knowing that nothing
Is finer, or truer, than life.
Life is no joke. Take it seriously.
So seriously that at seventy, for example, you'll plant olive trees
Not for your children to enjoy,
but because you won't believe in death, even fearing it
And life will weigh more on the balance.
Nazim Hikmet.
--
Anna Feruglio Dal Dan - ada...@despammed.com - this is a valid address
homepage: http://www.fantascienza.net/sfpeople/elethiomel
English blog: http://annafdd.blogspot.com/
Blog in italiano: http://fulminiesaette.blogspot.com