OT: news reader software
Jonathan L Cunningham
I'm migrating to a new computer (I previously migrated from a Mac I
didn't own to an old machine, and I'm now trying to migrate to a newer
machine).
For various reasons, I will be reading news on a Windows Vista machine.
Rather than continue using an antique version of Free Agent, I thought
it might be time to migrate to something newer. Free, preferably. I
notice some of you are using Thunderbird.
The first problem will be figuring out how to use it... my first
reaction is that it is incomplete (doesn't have all the functionality
even of this antique Free Agent, which probably pre-dates Queen
Victoria, when r.a.sf.c was distributed by carrier pigeon).
OTOH, it could be I just don't know all the secret, undocumented
keyboard shortcuts and hidden menus. (The biggest problem with free
software written for-the-love-of-it is poor documentation.)
After lurching around the Mozilla/Thunderbird web-sites, I didn't find
anything particularly useful.
What I want to do is (a) mark messages read or unread... I think 'r'
does it, and (b) I want to delete spam (we've had a lot recently)
preferably without downloading or reading it, but mainly so it doesn't
remain in the list of messages. (I keep old messages around for a month
or so, in case I want to look back, and because threads can last that
long.)
Deleting a message in Free Agent is easy. I press the 'delete' key. In
Thunderbird it thinks I'm trying to cancel the message (I think) but
otherwise the spam sits there, sneering at me.
So, basically, I only need two commands when reading, "mark as read" and
"delete" (or "hide" -- I don't care how it's implemented) and
Thunderbird appears to have implemented only half of those two. I hope
there is something really obvious I've missed...
Anyway, a quick poll, and a quick question:
If you read news on a Windows machine, using a free newsreader (not
google groups), which do you use?
If you use Thunderbird to read news (on any platform), do you have any
links to *useful* help pages summarising stuff for how to read news
efficiently. (I already use Thunderbird, and it seems fine as a mail
client, but -- as I said earlier -- feels like the newsreading is a demo
tacked onto it, rather than a finished product. Maybe this is another
symptom that newsgroups are gradually dying...?)
Jonathan
P.S. Some time soon, I intend to have a Linux machine available again...
I remember some mention of KNode... if it is sufficiently superior to
Thunderbird, I may hold off on migrating my newsreading until I can do
it on Linux. Thoughts? (I won't be using a Mac again for the forseeable
future -- i.e. a few months at least, which is the limit of my
foresight, so it's not an option.)
--
Never try to baptise a cat.
netcat
sp...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid says...
> Anyway, a quick poll, and a quick question:
>
> If you read news on a Windows machine, using a free newsreader (not
> google groups), which do you use?
Gravity.
> If you use Thunderbird to read news (on any platform),
I tried for one day, then gave up. YMMV.
> (I already use Thunderbird, and it seems fine as a mail
> client, but -- as I said earlier -- feels like the newsreading is a demo
> tacked onto it, rather than a finished product. Maybe this is another
> symptom that newsgroups are gradually dying...?)
Not necessarily. It has always been a tacked on feature in that line of
clients, ever since the days of Netscape, which I used for newsreading
briefly about 10 years ago.
rgds,
netcat
Brian M. Scott
<sp...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid> wrote in
<news:4aa77906...@news.btconnect.com> in
rec.arts.sf.composition:
[...]
> If you read news on a Windows machine, using a free
> newsreader (not google groups), which do you use?
40tude Dialog (<http://www.40tude.com/dialog/>).
[...]
Brian
Ric Locke
Second that motion. Many of the commands are easier to get to with
right-click (not a natural motion for Apple users) but otherwise it's
pretty much what you ask for, plus.
Regards,
Ric
Tina Hall
>>> If you read news on a Windows machine, using a free
>>> newsreader (not google groups), which do you use?
>>
>> 40tude Dialog (<http://www.40tude.com/dialog/>).
>>
> Second that motion. Many of the commands are easier to get to
> with right-click (not a natural motion for Apple users) but
> otherwise it's pretty much what you ask for, plus.
I'd use the same software as I'm using now; XP. ASCII only, no funny
buttons wasting space, very 'uebersichtlich' (I don't know an
English word for that, I doubt there is one), which means it's easy
to over-look (not meaning 'miss') and use at a glance, everything in
its proper place (which windoze software doesn't do[*]), plus a ton
of features I wouldn't want to do without.
Every quote level (up to 9 '>') gets its own colour (each with its
own backround, foreground, and _highlighted_ colour). I've got
macros to get a series of keypresses out of one keypress (or just
get one key's effect from another, too, like what I did with ESC and
Enter so I can press Enter to both read and 'exit' a post). That
just as two examples. There's nothing better.
[*] It tries to put everything into one window, so half the space is
used up by something not needed right now. Like, all newsgroups, all
subject lines in the current newsgroup, _and_ the current post.
Which is stupid. XP on the other hand has different 'levels'. I see
either the list of newsgroups, or the subject lines including date
and poster and whatever else I want it to tell me (with just a line
at the top saying which newsgroup), or have the entire space
available to read a post with, depending on how I configured it,
additional information of the header (like which newsgroup, sender,
date, msg ID, size,... in the order I want it displayed), which
optionally stays where it is or scrolls along with the post
(depending on what I configured).
--
(Sil) "Told you they'd take ages to get to the point."
(Karja) "I merely didn't want you to overuse those fine legs."
(Sil to Senar, throwing up her hands) "If he weren't such a daft bugger
I'd ask you to send him right back to sleep." -- Magic Earth 7/6
Suzanne Blom
"Jonathan L Cunningham" <sp...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid> wrote in message
news:4aa77906...@news.btconnect.com...
upper lefthand corner). It hides messages nicely.
Brian M. Scott
<Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org> wrote in
<news:MSGID_2=3A240=2F2199.13=40fidonet...@fidonet.org>
in rec.arts.sf.composition:
> Warlocke <warl...@hyperusa.com> wrote:
>>>> If you read news on a Windows machine, using a free
>>>> newsreader (not google groups), which do you use?
>>> 40tude Dialog (<http://www.40tude.com/dialog/>).
>> Second that motion. Many of the commands are easier to get to
>> with right-click (not a natural motion for Apple users) but
>> otherwise it's pretty much what you ask for, plus.
> I'd use the same software as I'm using now; XP. ASCII
> only, no funny buttons wasting space, very
> 'uebersichtlich' (I don't know an English word for
> that, I doubt there is one), which means it's easy to
> over-look (not meaning 'miss') and use at a glance,
> everything in its proper place (which windoze software
> doesn't do[*]),
In this context I'd translate it as 'clear and
well-arranged', 'lucidly arranged', or the like.
> plus a ton of features I wouldn't want to do without.
[...]
> [*] It tries to put everything into one window, so half
> the space is used up by something not needed right now.
> Like, all newsgroups, all subject lines in the current
> newsgroup, _and_ the current post. Which is stupid. XP
> on the other hand has different 'levels'. I see either
> the list of newsgroups, or the subject lines including
> date and poster and whatever else I want it to tell me
> (with just a line at the top saying which newsgroup),
> or have the entire space available to read a post with,
> depending on how I configured it, additional
> information of the header (like which newsgroup, sender,
> date, msg ID, size,... in the order I want it
> displayed), which optionally stays where it is or
> scrolls along with the post (depending on what I
> configured).
Dialog, which is a Windows program, does essentially all of
this.
Brian
Tilda
net...@devnull.eridani.eol.ee says...
>
> In article <4aa77906...@news.btconnect.com>,
> sp...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid says...
>
> > Anyway, a quick poll, and a quick question:
> >
> > If you read news on a Windows machine, using a free newsreader (not
> > google groups), which do you use?
>
> Gravity.
>
Oooh thank you both. For bringing up the subject and for answering. I
used to use Gravity years ago but it got all unreliabl (crashing and
freezing) and they stopped updating it so I went to other software. This
post made me have another look and Hey Presto! A Gravity for XP that
works! I'm so happy. Thank you both.
--
Tilda
Chuk Goodin
Cunningham) wrote:
>Anyway, a quick poll, and a quick question:
>
>If you read news on a Windows machine, using a free newsreader (not
>google groups), which do you use?
Does trn on a shell account on a Solaris machine count? I'm using a
Windows machine as the terminal...
>P.S. Some time soon, I intend to have a Linux machine available again...
>I remember some mention of KNode... if it is sufficiently superior to
>Thunderbird, I may hold off on migrating my newsreading until I can do
>it on Linux. Thoughts? (I won't be using a Mac again for the forseeable
>future -- i.e. a few months at least, which is the limit of my
>foresight, so it's not an option.)
I use pan (PAN?) on Linux, but not very often. Seems fine.
--
chuk
Jonathan L Cunningham
<b.s...@csuohio.edu> wrote:
>On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 20:31:00 +0200, Tina Hall
><Tina...@ftn.kruemel.org> wrote in
>> I'd use the same software as I'm using now; XP. ASCII
>> only, no funny buttons wasting space, very
>> 'uebersichtlich' (I don't know an English word for
>> that, I doubt there is one), which means it's easy to
>> over-look (not meaning 'miss') and use at a glance,
>> everything in its proper place (which windoze software
>> doesn't do[*]),
>
>In this context I'd translate it as 'clear and
>well-arranged', 'lucidly arranged', or the like.
I'd translate it as "oversightly" -- note that it's a neologism in my
personal ideolect, and remember that it means something like "giving a
good oversight of (itself)".
Probably not a technique that appeals to most people, though, although
I'd expect SF readers to be better at it, and it does mean that if I
encounter the Germand word again, I'l remember what it means. ;-)
Jonathan
Jonathan L Cunningham
wrote:
>On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 10:05:37 GMT, sp...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid (Jonathan L
>Cunningham) wrote:
>>Anyway, a quick poll, and a quick question:
>>
>>If you read news on a Windows machine, using a free newsreader (not
>>google groups), which do you use?
>
>Does trn on a shell account on a Solaris machine count? I'm using a
>Windows machine as the terminal...
Not until I get a Linux machine working again...
I have one which I healed (needed both a disk transplant and a CD/DVD
drive transplant) sitting cluttering up my desk. It's been there over
two weeks, and I still haven't made time to connect up a monitor and
keyboard to check it works.
If it works, then I need to install a Linux on it... I've got a recent
Fedora from a magazine cover disc, but I probably want Ubuntu (I
think)... I can't remember what the latest fashionable version is. (Once
I've got a machine working, I tend to stick with it until it breaks, so
don't pay a lot of attention to what's hot and what's not.)
>>P.S. Some time soon, I intend to have a Linux machine available again...
>>I remember some mention of KNode... if it is sufficiently superior to
>>Thunderbird, I may hold off on migrating my newsreading until I can do
>>it on Linux. Thoughts? (I won't be using a Mac again for the forseeable
>>future -- i.e. a few months at least, which is the limit of my
>>foresight, so it's not an option.)
>
>I use pan (PAN?) on Linux, but not very often. Seems fine.
Thanks.
Jonathan
Jonathan L Cunningham
Thanks. Sounds like Gravity and this one are the ones to try out.
Jonathan
Jonathan L Cunningham
wrote:
Thanks for the info.
I'm fairly sure I once tried using Outlook Express to read news (I used
to use it as my mail reader, but not for many years now.)
If you are happy with OE, I'm not saying you should change, but given
the suggestions re Gravity and 40tude, it may be worthwhile looking at
them. When I decide (after comparing them) I'll try to remember to post
a comparison/review.
But I'm unlikely to get time to try them this week... and may (with any
luck) be even busier for a while after that. (So, yes, I'm still using
my old machine for the moment -- for essential tasks like reading news,
anyway <g>.)
Jonathan
Chuk Goodin
>>> I'd use the same software as I'm using now; XP. ASCII
>>> only, no funny buttons wasting space, very
>>> 'uebersichtlich' (I don't know an English word for
>>> that, I doubt there is one), which means it's easy to
>>> over-look (not meaning 'miss') and use at a glance,
>>> everything in its proper place (which windoze software
>>> doesn't do[*]),
>>
>>In this context I'd translate it as 'clear and
>>well-arranged', 'lucidly arranged', or the like.
>
>I'd translate it as "oversightly" -- note that it's a neologism in my
>personal ideolect, and remember that it means something like "giving a
>good oversight of (itself)".
I think the term is usually "intuitive", although the technical definition
of that work is probably something like a person who has good intuition.
The HCI people use it to mean software which is easy to intuit the
operation of.
--
chuk
Jonathan L Cunningham
wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 11:30:45 GMT, sp...@sofluc.co.uk.invalid (Jonathan L Cunningham) wrote:
Yes, that makes sense. In the inner workings of my brain[*], I shall set
up the equation: "intuitive = *oversightly". The asterisk indicates that
the marked word is tagged as "do not use except privately".
I was going to say I wish I'd thought of "intuitive" immediately, but
the invented non-word is still useful if I ever come across the German
word again.
[*] It's the size of a planet. But so is yours. I learnt, many years
ago, from a Professor of AI, that intelligence is so difficult a
problem, that nothing that fits inside a human skull could possibly be
intelligent. Therefore, he concluded, we must all have radio
transmitters inside our skulls, linked to our actual brains, which must
be much larger, probably planet-sized.
On reflection, he can't possibly be right. They can't be radio
transmitters. It must be some FTL communication.
However, it does explain why the universe is so big: for just one
populated planet, Earth, with a population of several billion, we
clearly need several billion planet-sized brains, and the obvious place
to put them (since they will need a power source) is around other stars.
Presumably lesser intelligences, such as dogs (but not cats) require at
least asteroid-sized brains.
In case any of you doubt this: spiders or bees. Do you *really* think
something with a head that small can have enough brains to construct a
web, or build a hive and then collect honey?
Jonathan
[No, I'm not serious, and nor was he. I hope! ;-) And I don't believe
helicopters can fly, either. Have you ever looked at one up close? They
are obviously too heavy.]
JF
> [*] It's the size of a planet. But so is yours. I learnt, many years
> ago, from a Professor of AI, that intelligence is so difficult a
> problem, that nothing that fits inside a human skull could possibly be
> intelligent. Therefore, he concluded, we must all have radio
> transmitters inside our skulls, linked to our actual brains, which must
> be much larger, probably planet-sized.
>
It's all stored in the same place, cats, dog, men, some great
Hendry Anomaly* where we reside together, sometimes leaking
signals one to another.
Let me tell you a story...
The Management and I had been out geocaching and on the way back
to my son's house, I suddenly remarked to her 'I don't know if I
dreamed it or saw it, but I've got this memory of a sparrowhawk
flying away with a collared dove'. Later, at the dinner table, my
son mentioned an interesting event in his day: he had seen a
sparrowhawk fly away with a collared dove.
I do not transmit, except orally, nor does my son. The memory
felt odd in the way it sat in my brain, tagged as odd but fully
formed. A few months before my daughter had seen a goshawk with a
wood pigeon, but this was not that: it was definitely sparrow
hawk and collared dove, a visual image, the latter bird with the
unmistakeable pinkish-grey plumage.
I'm trying to get everyone to write down their version of events,
but Mrs Flood, true to form, has more-or-less forgotten it. With
luck, Tim will remember her confirming the event then and there
-- I'm doing the prodding by email and being very careful not to
push my own version so that the recall is unforced and the
event is recorded properly.
I'm convinced. All is one. SF lives. Paging Mr Randi...
JF
*It's where the people of Dub are stored each howling poisonous
day when their poor abused bodies are rebuilt in Children of a
Greater God.
Can't sell it though.