If you were alien invader, how would you conquer the Earth?
charon85
If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
have you some even better idea?
Erik Max Francis
> Simple question, isn't it?
>
> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> have you some even better idea?
Ignore the boring planet and mine the asteroids.
--
Erik Max Francis && m...@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
More fodder for the new lost generation
-- Nik Kershaw
Dimensional Traveler
--
Things I learned from MythBusters #57: Never leave a loaded gun in an
exploding room.
Boomer
> charon85 wrote:
> > Simple question, isn't it?
>
> > If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> > would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> > as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> > to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> > have you some even better idea?
>
> Ignore the boring planet and mine the asteroids.
>
> --
> San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
> More fodder for the new lost generation
> -- Nik Kershaw
I'm with this guy. In fact, I'll cut you a deal. You get the
asteroids, I take the gas giants and their moons. And we can have a
third party join in and take the terrestrial worlds and that one life
bearing planet's moon. Also, some of these nearby stars look pretty
nice. Do you want to take Alpha Centauri or Barnard's Star?
mimus
Do a mega-buck financial manipulation or two (like the Enron
Energy Bubble) and then use the money to buy all the politicians
and bureaucrats I need to do a giga-buck financial manipulation or two
(like the Securitized Sub-Prime Mortgage Bubble) and then use the money to
buy all the politicians and bureacrats I need to do a tera-buck financial
manipulation or two (like the Oil Bubble of 2006-8) and then buy all the
rest of the politicians and bureaucrats, not to mention snapping up a few
corporate bargains amid the economic devastation I've wrought.
Tried and tested and proven.
--
"You are either insane or a fool."
"I am a sanitary inspector."
< _Maske: Thaery_
Steven L.
Fred Hoyle wrote the best scenario:
Aliens spread some kind of chemical into Earth's atmosphere that causes
all the humans on earth to become sterile, unable to bear children.
Then they wait 150 years for the human race to become extinct.
(Though in Fred Hoyle's short story, the aliens had a few other plans in
the meantime.)
--
Steven L.
Email: sdli...@earthlinkNOSPAM.net
Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.
Gerry Quinn
@j21g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, char...@boardermail.com says...
> Simple question, isn't it?
>
> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> have you some even better idea?
I'd come as a troll, obviously.
- Gerry Quinn
lal_truckee
> ...
>
> If you want it, seed the planet with biological agents that only
> attack the native humans. Wait a couple weeks, then come down and
> burn the bodies.
Cricky! You come all that way to grab a life bearing planet from it's
native sentients while preserving the ecosphere, and you want to BURN
all the fertilizer?
David Johnston
wrote:
>charon85 wrote:
>> Simple question, isn't it?
>>
>> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
>> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
>> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
>> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
>> have you some even better idea?
>
>Ignore the boring planet and mine the asteroids.
What if you aren't after anything in the asteroids?
David Johnston
<fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Erik Max Francis <m...@alcyone.com> wrote:
>
>:charon85 wrote:
>:> Simple question, isn't it?
>:>
>:> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
>:> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
>:> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
>:> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
>:> have you some even better idea?
>:
>:Ignore the boring planet and mine the asteroids.
>:
>
>If you want it, seed the planet with biological agents that only
>attack the native humans.
Of course that would require you first to abduct a bunch of test
subjects.
Captain Infinity
charon85 wrote:
>Simple question, isn't it?
>
>If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
>would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
>as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
>to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
>have you some even better idea?
I and my countless troops would advance slowly downwards towards Earth,
moving from side to side to avoid the enemy guns below, dropping bombs
on the hapless humans beneath us. And if the humans managed to kill
some of us, the rest of us would just drop down faster and faster.
Occasionally our mother ship would fly above us in the sky, drawing
their fire. And when we landed, our space invasion would be complete!
Unless the human has another life or two. Or another quarter.
**
Captain Infinity
Captain Infinity
Gerry Quinn wrote:
He's not a troll, he's an unemployed Hollywood writer mining Usenet for
ideas.
**
Captain Infinity
RandyL AT DOT
most powerful weapon ever devised. Then I would go to the USA, Soviet Union,
China, Britain and France, and tell them that you just gave Iran and North
Korea the means to produce the ultimate weapon that has no defense. Then I
would tell the USA (privately) that the Soviet Union has stolen that
technology from North Korea. Then I would go to the Soviet Union and tell
them (privately) that the USA has stolen that weapon technology from Iran.
Then I would sit back and watch the show...
Randy L.
"charon85" <char...@boardermail.com> wrote in message
news:dbbb6ff6-424d-4c91...@j21g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
Wayne Throop
::: would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full
::: force, as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you
::: prefer to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body
::: Snatchers? Or have you some even better idea?
The Screwfly Solution.
Wayne Throop thr...@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Orval Fairbairn
<dbbb6ff6-424d-4c91...@j21g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,
charon85 <char...@boardermail.com> wrote:
The same as the answer to my favorite question:
Q: If you were the Devil's Chief of Staff and assigned the task of
plotting to take over Mankind, what would be your first step?
A: Co-opt the religions and automatically get millions of followers.
A slight variant of this would be, as an alien, train
priests/rabbis/mullahs, etc. to incite the faithful to attack all
infidels.
--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.
Erik Max Francis
What if the sky wasn't blue? If they're doing something crazy for crazy
reasons, then you can make up whatever you want.
If they're coming here for resources, then Earth is not very high on the
list of potential targets. Asteroids, comets, the moons of the gas
giants, skimming the gas giants for fusion fuel, etc. all are all more
promising than dealing with those jerks on that Third Planet.
--
Erik Max Francis && m...@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you.
-- Leon Trotsky
David Johnston
wrote:
>David Johnston wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:45:01 -0700, Erik Max Francis <m...@alcyone.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> charon85 wrote:
>>>> Simple question, isn't it?
>>>>
>>>> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
>>>> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
>>>> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
>>>> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
>>>> have you some even better idea?
>>> Ignore the boring planet and mine the asteroids.
>>
>> What if you aren't after anything in the asteroids?
>
>What if the sky wasn't blue? If they're doing something crazy for crazy
>reasons, then you can make up whatever you want.
>
>If they're coming here for resources, then Earth is not very high on the
>list of potential targets. Asteroids, comets, the moons of the gas
>giants, skimming the gas giants for fusion fuel, etc. all are all more
>promising than dealing with those jerks on that Third Planet.
Not especially. It's unlikely that aliens would be hauling an entire
industrial infrastructure along with them, so it would take them a
long time to get get one up and running. Whereas they can just wander
over to Earth's orbit and demand what they want and we'll give it to
them.
Derek Janssen
And cut-and-spamming generic websites while he does it.
Derek Janssen (okay, would the gullible-sucker .sf groups PLEASE keep it
down to a dull roar and wrap up their navel-gazing suckerhood by the end
of the weekend, tops?)
eja...@verizon.net
Wayne Throop
:: the list of potential targets. Asteroids, comets, the moons of the
:: gas giants, skimming the gas giants for fusion fuel, etc. all are
:: all more promising than dealing with those jerks on that Third
:: Planet.
: David Johnston <da...@block.net>
: Not especially. It's unlikely that aliens would be hauling an entire
: industrial infrastructure along with them, so it would take them a
: long time to get get one up and running. Whereas they can just wander
: over to Earth's orbit and demand what they want and we'll give it to
: them.
There are problems with that notion. If they are here for raw metals,
fresh water, petrochemicals, whatnot, they'd still have to bring the
heavy lift capability to get it out of the gravity well, and so on.
If they're here for manufactured goods, they're barking up the wrong
planet, if they want somebody who can manufacture goods relevant to
somebody with interstellar capability, and the ability to wage war at
the end of such a trip.
Sort of like mounting an expedition to an obscure island in the middle
of the pacific and asking the locals for what you need. Unless you're
a castaway, or in some other special circumstances, it doesn't seem
a likely thing to do.
Possibly they're here for arts and crafts.
Xref: The Liberation of Earth. "Any lendi, dendi?"
Erik Max Francis
In that case they prepared awfully poorly. The notion of crossing
interstellar distances to conquer aliens is really fun in science
fiction, but it doesn't hold much water. If you can travel across the
stars, you can extract resources on their own. All the resources in our
Solar System -- and likely most stellar systems -- are far more
plentiful and easier to access outside of deep gravity wells and
corrosive atmospheres like that of Earth.
--
Erik Max Francis && m...@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
Nobody's waited longer than me / To come clean
-- Jaki Graham
garabik-ne...@kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk
> Simple question, isn't it?
>
> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> have you some even better idea?
>
Listen quietly to their radio and TV transmission, determine who their
King was, and then capture him.
Now, what happened to Elvis?
(not my own idea; followups trimmed)
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
| Radovan Garabík http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
| __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk |
-----------------------------------------------------------
Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
Juho Julkunen
(d...@no.email.thankstospam.net) says...
>
> An interesting idea was in one of Robert Sheckley's stories:
>
> Under human disguise, aliens got into manufacturing. Except that
> the stuff they made never broke and never needed a replacement.
> This eventually lead to a total halt in manufacturing by humans
> and complete control of all economic activity by aliens.
Why did their stuff never need a replacement?
And what happened to the service industry?
--
Juho Julkunen
Jack Tingle
> ::: If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> ::: would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full
> ::: force, as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you
> ::: prefer to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body
> ::: Snatchers? Or have you some even better idea?
>
> The Screwfly Solution.
i hope no one makes that into a movie. studio exec: "sex, check;
violence, check; attractive protag, check; ending... WHAT? no. no, no!
change that." it just wouldn't work.
regards
jack tingle
Ken from Chicago
"Dimensional Traveler" <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:4a6bb89d$0$1612$742e...@news.sonic.net...
YES! That's the question. If it's a classic colonization deal, and you have
time, you simply instigate fights amongst the Earthers, ala a classic
TWILIGHT ZONE ep. If' you're short of time, you do a bunch of fake terrorist
attacks and plant some nuke amongst some of the more unpopular countries.
If you're of limited resources and / or want the humans alive, you upgrade
the Earth tech, until you have virtual control of the latest and greatest of
Earth computing and communicating technology.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Captain Infinity" <Infi...@captaininfinity.us> wrote in message
news:lbjn65hjbu45na8k0...@4ax.com...
Beware, the humans have command of missiles to thwart sky attacks.
-- Ken from Chicago
Peter Knutsen
> Fred Hoyle wrote the best scenario:
>
> Aliens spread some kind of chemical into Earth's atmosphere that causes
> all the humans on earth to become sterile, unable to bear children.
>
> Then they wait 150 years for the human race to become extinct.
> (Though in Fred Hoyle's short story, the aliens had a few other plans in
> the meantime.)
Title?
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
Walter Bushell
<dbbb6ff6-424d-4c91...@j21g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,
charon85 <char...@boardermail.com> wrote:
> Simple question, isn't it?
>
> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> have you some even better idea?
>
>
> http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/gallery/topinvasionmovies/
Bribe the politicians.
Ken from Chicago
"DK" <d...@no.email.thankstospam.net> wrote in message
news:8xSam.55646$eS5....@newsfe25.iad...
> In article
> <dbbb6ff6-424d-4c91...@j21g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>,
> charon85 <char...@boardermail.com> wrote:
>>Simple question, isn't it?
>>
>>If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
>>would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
>>as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
>>to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
>>have you some even better idea?
>
>
> Under human disguise, aliens got into manufacturing. Except that
> the stuff they made never broke and never needed a replacement.
> This eventually lead to a total halt in manufacturing by humans
> and complete control of all economic activity by aliens.
>
That's a variation of an idea I had for comics where Dr. Doom or Lex Luthor
distributed for free or really low prices (under $100 to buy including a
license to copy it up to ten times for personal use), computers and
operating systems that lived up to the hype: easy to use, easy to upgrade,
compatible, secure and totally compatible with Microsoft software, even able
to secure all the holes in Windows--including being able to save and print
the file directory of every attach drive WITHOUT having to resort to a DOS
CLI.
Bonus they established a cheap ($20 / month) broadband wimax (think wifi
except the hotspots are miles in diameter) internet service at 5 times the
speed of competitors and had the bandwidth of multimedia, HD and VOIP, thus
replacing cable, satellite, and cell service--and establishing network for
developed and developing countries, ala the Cybermen on the new Dr. Who.
Why the suspicious are looking for monitoring systems there wouldn't be any.
-- Ken from Chicago
Walter Bushell
mimus <tinmi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 18:08:29 -0700, charon85 wrote:
>
> > Simple question, isn't it?
> >
> > If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> > would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> > as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> > to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> > have you some even better idea?
> >
> > http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/gallery/topinvasionmovies/
>
> Do a mega-buck financial manipulation or two (like the Enron
> Energy Bubble) and then use the money to buy all the politicians
> and bureaucrats I need to do a giga-buck financial manipulation or two
> (like the Securitized Sub-Prime Mortgage Bubble) and then use the money to
> buy all the politicians and bureacrats I need to do a tera-buck financial
> manipulation or two (like the Oil Bubble of 2006-8) and then buy all the
> rest of the politicians and bureaucrats, not to mention snapping up a few
> corporate bargains amid the economic devastation I've wrought.
>
> Tried and tested and proven.
Just open up trade; the natives will turn over valuables for simple
things like life extendtion and hydrogen fusion technology.
Ken from Chicago
"Boomer" <boome...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3aa90b7e-beea-4fce...@c2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 25, 9:45 pm, Erik Max Francis <m...@alcyone.com> wrote:
> charon85 wrote:
> > Simple question, isn't it?
>
> > If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> > would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> > as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> > to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> > have you some even better idea?
>
>
> Erik Max Francis && m...@alcyone.com &&http://www.alcyone.com/max/
> San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
> -- Nik Kershaw
~I'm with this guy. In fact, I'll cut you a deal. You get the
~asteroids, I take the gas giants and their moons. And we can have a
~third party join in and take the terrestrial worlds and that one life
~bearing planet's moon. Also, some of these nearby stars look pretty
~nice. Do you want to take Alpha Centauri or Barnard's Star?
How much for just the planet?
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Erik Max Francis" <m...@alcyone.com> wrote in message
news:e8-dnWZphtGaS_bX...@giganews.com...
People, plants and animals are resources.
-- Ken from Chicago
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Simple question, isn't it?
>
> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> have you some even better idea?
>
Depends on why I want to invade.
But for MOST purposes, "invade" is the crude term. I would prefer to
say "cooperation". (there are those politically sensitive types who
might challenge me and say that "exploitation" would be more accurate).
If we have technology capable of reliably and efficiently allowing us to
cross interstellar distances, and we're close enough to human biology to
find Earth an at all attractive proposition, we have a HUGE amount to
offer the human race, and having the primitives of Earth assist us with
their native guides and knowledge of their witch doctors, medicinal
herbs, etc., will be worth trading for. With luck, Earth doesn't have
anything that causes us to react like conquistadores to gold, and we'll
all have a nice peaceful settlement. Eventually you technologically apt
monkeys will adopt our technology, any appropriate elements of our
culture, and we'll be a single more powerful civilization.
(Well, now, of course we won't want to have to deal with multiple SIDES
in your little wars, so we'll choose one side, probably whichever one
currently has the most influence or resources...)
Now if for some reason we just don't want you little monkeys around, a
tailored disease might work. Or the "Chtorr" approach, where we just
start seeding OUR ecology into yours so that your world becomes steadily
more alien to you and more homey for us, wrecking your economy and
industry by undoing the basis of everything you live on.
What we WON'T do is anything that will look nice on the big screen
without a lot of work. Not that you couldn't tell interesting and fun
stories with those ideas, but it's not going to just be a quick
flash-bang ooh shiny.
I could come UP with a few invasion scenarios which would involve
lovely spectacular battles, etc., but they'd have to be HEAVILY
contrived and no serious hard-SF fan would take 'em seriously for a minute.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Ken from Chicago
"Peter Knutsen" <pe...@sagatafl.invalid> wrote in message
news:4a6c4e29$0$48240$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
CHILDHOOD'S END, tho I thought it was by Clarke.
Unless you mean an episode of STARGATE SG-1.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Walter Bushell" <pr...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:proto-B261F7....@news.panix.com...
Bribe them to do what?
-- Ken from Chicago
Dr.Smith
all these light years, I can wait another 20 or 30 years for the humans to
be afraid of shooting down my invasion fleet, for fear of releasing green
house gases to the atmosphere. The men will be to paralyzed with fear of
offending us to drop kick our 11" warriors to the curb. That's just the
Americans, the N. Koreans are another problem. They may actually shoot their
missiles at us!
Ken from Chicago
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:h4hlst$330$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
It's HOW it's adapted to film.
If the aliens react to something on Earth like conquistodors to gold then
the hard way invasion is all too likely. Also about Spain in the Americas,
Spain had COMPETITION. They had to hurry lest Britain and France caught up.
Similar to alien invasion, time could be of the essence.
Many of the alternative are quite filmable:
1) Basically they start out as your typical conspiracy / spy thriller but it
turns out the rabbit hole is a lot deeper than people suspected. THE ARRIVAL
was basically a slow-motion invasion.
2) The tailored disease starts out as a medical pandemic thriller--until the
REAL patient zero is found, ala THE ANDROMEDA STRAIN.
3) Subverting the economy starts out as a corporate / financial thriller,
ala last Spring's THE INTERNATIONAL.
-- Ken from Chicago
Greg D. Moore (Strider)
news:ZZudnRHpRf3HxvHX...@giganews.com...
>
> "Peter Knutsen" <pe...@sagatafl.invalid> wrote in message
> news:4a6c4e29$0$48240$1472...@news.sunsite.dk...
>> Steven L. wrote:
>>> Fred Hoyle wrote the best scenario:
>>>
>>> Aliens spread some kind of chemical into Earth's atmosphere that causes
>>> all the humans on earth to become sterile, unable to bear children.
>>>
>>> Then they wait 150 years for the human race to become extinct.
>>> (Though in Fred Hoyle's short story, the aliens had a few other plans in
>>> the meantime.)
>>
>> Title?
>>
>> --
>> Peter Knutsen
>> sagatafl.org
>
> CHILDHOOD'S END, tho I thought it was by Clarke.
Childhood's End is by Clarke, but very different plot.
The humans ARE permitted to have children, just turns out the children
evolve into something else.
>
> Unless you mean an episode of STARGATE SG-1.
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
>
--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.
Pat Flannery
lal_truckee wrote:
>
> Cricky! You come all that way to grab a life bearing planet from it's
> native sentients while preserving the ecosphere, and you want to BURN
> all the fertilizer?
Not fertilizer... Soylent Green.
Pat
Pat Flannery
Captain Infinity wrote:
> He's not a troll, he's an unemployed Hollywood writer mining Usenet for
> ideas.
>
>
>
In that case, we need boffo special effects.
Drop a giant antimatter bomb into the Sun to create a super solar flare
that will sterilize the Earth's ecosystem when it hits the planet.
Pat
Pat Flannery
RandyL wrote:
> I would go to Iran and North Korea, and give them the technology for
> the most powerful weapon ever devised. Then I would go to the USA,
> Soviet Union, China, Britain and France, and tell them that you just
> gave Iran and North Korea the means to produce the ultimate weapon
> that has no defense. Then I would tell the USA (privately) that the
> Soviet Union has stolen that technology from North Korea. Then I would
> go to the Soviet Union and tell them (privately) that the USA has
> stolen that weapon technology from Iran. Then I would sit back and
> watch the show...
>
> Randy L.
The problem with nuclear wars is that in the aftermath, even though the
people are gone, the Earth ends up inhabited by giant ants and fire
breathing reptiles...which isn't much of a improvement unless you want
to turn it into a big game park.
Pat
Marvin the Martian
president of the single super-power promising people everything for
nothing, then once in office proceed to destroy the Earthling economy,
tell the Earthlings a big fat lie that they are destroy their would with
carbon dioxide, prevent them from using nuclear power or any other power
source that works, then sit back and watch as billions of people die from
their own stupidity.
Pat Flannery
Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
>
> If they're coming here for resources, then Earth is not very high on
> the list of potential targets. Asteroids, comets, the moons of the
> gas giants, skimming the gas giants for fusion fuel, etc. all are all
> more promising than dealing with those jerks on that Third Planet.
Blow the planet literally to pieces, and you can gather up all the
goodies as they orbit the Sun, using solar power for processing them.
So how do you blow up the planet? Well, you take the Moon, and.... ;-)
It formed after a giant collision, it's fitting it should end in one also.
Alternately, there's always Mars to use as a impactor, and that route
gets you even more rocks to process.
Pat
Marvin the Martian
rights, that the local schools speak your language, demand free housing
and free food.
Then convince the humans they are the problem with the world, that they
should abort their babies, kill their old folks, and not spend too much
on health care trying to stay alive. This will result in a negative
growth rate among the native population.
It worked for Mexico, it will work for Martians.
David Johnston
wrote:
>:: If they're coming here for resources, then Earth is not very high on
>:: the list of potential targets. Asteroids, comets, the moons of the
>:: gas giants, skimming the gas giants for fusion fuel, etc. all are
>:: all more promising than dealing with those jerks on that Third
>:: Planet.
>
>: David Johnston <da...@block.net>
>: Not especially. It's unlikely that aliens would be hauling an entire
>: industrial infrastructure along with them, so it would take them a
>: long time to get get one up and running. Whereas they can just wander
>: over to Earth's orbit and demand what they want and we'll give it to
>: them.
>
>There are problems with that notion. If they are here for raw metals,
>fresh water, petrochemicals, whatnot, they'd still have to bring the
>heavy lift capability to get it out of the gravity well, and so on.
Tell us to build it. We can. It'll just cost a lot.
>If they're here for manufactured goods, they're barking up the wrong
>planet, if they want somebody who can manufacture goods relevant to
>somebody with interstellar capability, and the ability to wage war at
>the end of such a trip.
>
>Sort of like mounting an expedition to an obscure island in the middle
>of the pacific and asking the locals for what you need. Unless you're
>a castaway, or in some other special circumstances, it doesn't seem
>a likely thing to do.
>
Demand water, wood and fish? They did that.
Greg D. Moore (Strider)
news:RN6dncat_eY46fHX...@posted.northdakotatelephone...
Just saw that movie last night. ;-)
David Johnston
wrote:
>David Johnston wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 21:05:27 -0700, Erik Max Francis <m...@alcyone.com>
>> wrote:
>>> If they're coming here for resources, then Earth is not very high on the
>>> list of potential targets. Asteroids, comets, the moons of the gas
>>> giants, skimming the gas giants for fusion fuel, etc. all are all more
>>> promising than dealing with those jerks on that Third Planet.
>>
>> Not especially. It's unlikely that aliens would be hauling an entire
>> industrial infrastructure along with them, so it would take them a
>> long time to get get one up and running. Whereas they can just wander
>> over to Earth's orbit and demand what they want and we'll give it to
>> them.
>
>In that case they prepared awfully poorly. The notion of crossing
>interstellar distances to conquer aliens is really fun in science
>fiction, but it doesn't hold much water. If you can travel across the
>stars, you can extract resources on their own. All the resources in our
>Solar System -- and likely most stellar systems -- are far more
>plentiful and easier to access outside of deep gravity wells and
>corrosive atmospheres like that of Earth.
Deep gravity wells are not the alien's problem. They're the natives
problem.
jonathan
"Fred J. McCall" <fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:undn65l1fta63bkt7...@4ax.com...
> :> Simple question, isn't it?
> :>
> :> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> :> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> :> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> :> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> :> have you some even better idea?
Any alien that could travel freely would have all the natural resources
and territory they could use. It's only life that would be so precious and
rare enough for an invasion. Wouldn't they rather control, than kill, the
human race??? What else could they want from Earth they couldn't
get anywhere else, except for us? Whether to help with their own
biological problems or provide mass labor and so on?
If I had the ability for interstellar travel I'd also have at my hands
all kinds of technology humanity hasn't achieved. I think it would be far
easier and more beneficial to me if I could parlay that 'wisdom' into
getting humanity to want to put me....in charge . Or as barter
for whatever it is needed. back home at ..Argelius3.
Far better to have the billions of people alive, and even better if they
give me what I want voluntarily than by force.
Alien Invader or White Knight?
Sounds like a Vin Diesel movie, but oh well.
Jonathan
s
> :
> :Ignore the boring planet and mine the asteroids.
> :
>
> If you want it, seed the planet with biological agents that only
> attack the native humans. Wait a couple weeks, then come down and
> burn the bodies.
I don't think that would work. The more deadly and faster a disease, the easier
it is to spot it and isolate it. A disease like AIDS is so scary because of how
...slowly it works it way through the population. As in someone could carry AIDS
and spread it for years without knowing they have it. And in both cases, fast or
slow
the enornous diversity of life would always insulate segments of the population.
I think one way to characterize how vulnerable a naturally evolved system would
be to guage how fully that life has filled it's niche. Like a dense old growth
forest,
any one disease just can't kill it without killing just about all like. .
Killing off humanity
would require throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
>
> --
> "Before you embark on a journey of revenge dig two graves."
> -- Confucius
Doc O'Leary
Juho Julkunen <giao...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> In article <8xSam.55646$eS5....@newsfe25.iad>, DK
> (d...@no.email.thankstospam.net) says...
> >
> > An interesting idea was in one of Robert Sheckley's stories:
> >
> > Under human disguise, aliens got into manufacturing. Except that
> > the stuff they made never broke and never needed a replacement.
> > This eventually lead to a total halt in manufacturing by humans
> > and complete control of all economic activity by aliens.
>
> Why did their stuff never need a replacement?
More to the point, if the stuff never needs replacement, how exactly do
the aliens control *any* economic activity after first sale?
--
My personal UDP list: 127.0.0.1, localhost, googlegroups.com, ono.com,
and probably your server, too.
JF
would mean persuading the local sophonts to lower CO2 levels to
below trace amounts. Then, using the same arguments, I would get
them to close down their energy infrastructure and watch while
their civilisation collapsed.
Then I'd move in. At first I'd have to wear a human body suit,
which I initially thought might look ridiculous as I am already
of human size. Fortunately I have found that humans will accept a
very large -- grotesquely so -- form as still within human
parameters.
Then I'd run for Presiden... oops, what a giveaway. Ignore that
last bit.
JF
Christian Weisgerber
> > The Screwfly Solution.
>
> i hope no one makes that into a movie.
It was made into one of the more disturbing episodes of the Showtime
anthology series "Masters of Horror".
--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
William December Starr
Pat Flannery <fla...@daktel.com> said:
> Drop a giant antimatter bomb into the Sun to create a super solar
> flare that will sterilize the Earth's ecosystem when it hits the
> planet.
"What's all this I hear about anteater bombs?"
-- wds
jonathan
It's quite a comprehensive paper put together by a diverse and impressive
panel. And after reading it, the question becomes, will 'they' even tell us
if life elsewhere were to be found, whether microbial or higher?
I kinda doubt it if they would report it publicly having read this.
But I also doubt they could keep it secret for very long.
A few excerpts from.....
NASA Technical Memorandum
WORKSHOP ON THE SOCIETAL IMPLICATIONS
OF ASTROBIOLOGY
FINAL REPORT
AMES RESEARCH CENTER
November 16-17, 1999
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
The workshop was organized around four questions;
(1) Why do we search for life or its beginnings?
(2) What are the implications of observation of life and human
exploration off the home planet?
(3) How should we respond to the discovery of life elsewhere?
(4) What is the evolutionary fate of human societies and cultures
beyond the home planet?
Summary of Findings
"...it is extremely important for us to be highly knowledgeable about
the likely reactions of different constituencies (the press, various
religious groups, political leaders, and the general public). We would
be foolish and negligent if we did not study such reactions well ahead
of time and make state-of-the art preparations for major discoveries.
Carefully prepared plans should be in place very soon, because
evidence of extraterrestrial life could be found at any time."
Action Items
"Establish a Steering Committee composed of a small but diverse group
of astrobiologists, social scientists, and scholars in the humanities to
develop along-range plan and guide its implementation"
http://astrobiology.arc.nasa.gov/workshops/societal/societal_report.pdf
And who gets to vote for this "First Contact Committee"?
Who gets to make the rules?
Jonathan
s
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:h4hlst$330$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Derek Janssen
> It's quite a comprehensive paper put together by a diverse and impressive
> panel. And after reading it, the question becomes, will 'they' even tell us
> if life elsewhere were to be found, whether microbial or higher?
> I kinda doubt it if they would report it publicly having read this.
> But I also doubt they could keep it secret for very long.
>
...So, does THAT one link to a lame website spam, too?
(People, the guy who started this mess is NOT YOUR FRIEND!--He was not
trying to start a salon discussion!!
Derek Janssen (it's a nice weekend, free up your spare time!)
eja...@verizon.net
Suzanne Blom
>
> "Dimensional Traveler" <dtr...@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:4a6bb89d$0$1612$742e...@news.sonic.net...
>> charon85 wrote:
>>> Simple question, isn't it?
>>>
>>> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
>>> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
>>> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
>>> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
>>> have you some even better idea?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Depends on _why_ I want to invade.
>>
>> --
>> Things I learned from MythBusters #57: Never leave a loaded gun in an
>> exploding room.
>
> YES! That's the question. If it's a classic colonization deal, and you
> have time, you simply instigate fights amongst the Earthers, ala a classic
> TWILIGHT ZONE ep. If' you're short of time, you do a bunch of fake
> terrorist attacks and plant some nuke amongst some of the more unpopular
> countries.
>
> If you're of limited resources and / or want the humans alive, you upgrade
> the Earth tech, until you have virtual control of the latest and greatest
> of Earth computing and communicating technology.
>
And, if you just want the real estate, (Planets are in this millenium.) put
a sunshade of the proper size & distance and wait for things to just freeze
out. Then repopulate with whatever ecosystem you desire.
moviePig
> jonathan wrote:
> > It's quite a comprehensive paper put together by a diverse and impressive
> > panel. And after reading it, the question becomes, will 'they' even tell us
> > if life elsewhere were to be found, whether microbial or higher?
> > I kinda doubt it if they would report it publicly having read this.
> > But I also doubt they could keep it secret for very long.
>
> ...So, does THAT one link to a lame website spam, too?
>
> (People, the guy who started this mess is NOT YOUR FRIEND!--He was not
> trying to start a salon discussion!!
>
Clearly, when they *do* find algae on the third planet from Alpha
Centauri, you'll be hopelessly ill-prepared. Personally, I'm starting
a snail farm...
-
- - - - - - - -
YOUR taste at work...
http://www.moviepig.com
David DeLaney
>"Erik Max Francis" <m...@alcyone.com> wrote in message
>> reasons, then you can make up whatever you want.
>>
>> If they're coming here for resources, then Earth is not very high on the
>> list of potential targets. Asteroids, comets, the moons of the gas
>> giants, skimming the gas giants for fusion fuel, etc. all are all more
>> promising than dealing with those jerks on that Third Planet.
>
YOU TRADE WOOD FOR SHEEP?
Dave "wait. 'trade' may not be your right Earth word, please hold" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Ken from Chicago
"David DeLaney" <d...@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrnh6p2u...@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> Ken from Chicago <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>"Erik Max Francis" <m...@alcyone.com> wrote in message
>>> What if the sky wasn't blue? If they're doing something crazy for crazy
>>> reasons, then you can make up whatever you want.
>>>
>>> If they're coming here for resources, then Earth is not very high on the
>>> list of potential targets. Asteroids, comets, the moons of the gas
>>> giants, skimming the gas giants for fusion fuel, etc. all are all more
>>> promising than dealing with those jerks on that Third Planet.
>>
>>People, plants and animals are resources.
>
> YOU TRADE WOOD FOR SHEEP?
>
> Dave "wait. 'trade' may not be your right Earth word, please hold" DeLaney
Yes, a renewable source of wool would be nice.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Suzanne Blom" <sue...@execpc.com> wrote in message
news:T_ydnYMHEa_6FfHX...@posted.localnet...
Trunuff--if you don't want the bio stuff.
If you're a hankering for live stock, then you gotta go the hard way.
-- Ken from Chicago
Russell Watson
<char...@boardermail.com> wrote:
>Simple question, isn't it?
>
>If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
>would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
>as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
>to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
>have you some even better idea?
>
>
>http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/gallery/topinvasionmovies/
"The Monsters are Due on Maple Street" is all you need to know on this
topic.
Mike Dworetsky
news:RN6dncat_eY46fHX...@posted.northdakotatelephone...
>
>
Sounds a bit like _The Neutronium Alchemist_ by Peter F. Hamilton.
--
Mike Dworetsky
(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)
aaron
"charon85" <char...@boardermail.com> wrote in message
news:dbbb6ff6-424d-4c91...@j21g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
> Simple question, isn't it?
If simple means inaquedate in detail to allow for a meaningful answer. While
one might assume the human side is contemprary you give no parameters for
the invader.
Given no paremeter I would simply proclaim myself master of all Earth and
command all those upon it to obey me. And they will becasue I say so.
aaron
"Juho Julkunen" <giao...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.24d65de07...@news.kolumbus.fi...
> In article <8xSam.55646$eS5....@newsfe25.iad>, DK
> (d...@no.email.thankstospam.net) says...
>>
>> An interesting idea was in one of Robert Sheckley's stories:
>>
>> Under human disguise, aliens got into manufacturing. Except that
>> the stuff they made never broke and never needed a replacement.
>> This eventually lead to a total halt in manufacturing by humans
>> and complete control of all economic activity by aliens.
>
> Why did their stuff never need a replacement?
>
Robots? See recent news stories about Japanese 'service' robots.
aaron
"Doc O'Leary" <drolear...@3q2009.subsume.com> wrote in message
news:droleary.usenet-7C...@news.twtelecom.net...
> In article <MPG.24d65de07...@news.kolumbus.fi>,
> Juho Julkunen <giao...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <8xSam.55646$eS5....@newsfe25.iad>, DK
>> (d...@no.email.thankstospam.net) says...
>> >
>> > An interesting idea was in one of Robert Sheckley's stories:
>> >
>> > Under human disguise, aliens got into manufacturing. Except that
>> > the stuff they made never broke and never needed a replacement.
>> > This eventually lead to a total halt in manufacturing by humans
>> > and complete control of all economic activity by aliens.
>>
>> Why did their stuff never need a replacement?
>
> More to the point, if the stuff never needs replacement, how exactly do
> the aliens control *any* economic activity after first sale?
If the population is growing, or if peoples desire for 'stuff' is growing
then there would be new demand.
Jim Lovejoy
441563...@j21g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:
> Simple question, isn't it?
>
> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> have you some even better idea?
>
>
> http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/gallery/topinvasionmovies/
One SF story (name and author not remembered) had a very good answer. The
aliens auctioned off a piece of very high alien tech. (I believe it had
both military and commercial applications.) The price was so high (muliple
hundreds of billions) that the winning nation was totally in debt to the
aliens, and the losers were so worried about the situation that they
attacked the winner before the technology could be totally deployed, thus
arranging for (1) The winner being even further in debt, since they needed
the aliens to protect them until they got the technology up and running,
and (2) the aliens got even more goodies, since the winning nation felt no
remorse about taking the attacking nations' resources as well as its own to
pay down the debt.
Peter Knutsen
> One SF story (name and author not remembered) had a very good answer. The
> aliens auctioned off a piece of very high alien tech. (I believe it had
> both military and commercial applications.) The price was so high (muliple
> hundreds of billions) that the winning nation was totally in debt to the
> aliens, and the losers were so worried about the situation that they
> attacked the winner before the technology could be totally deployed, thus
> arranging for (1) The winner being even further in debt, since they needed
> the aliens to protect them until they got the technology up and running,
> and (2) the aliens got even more goodies, since the winning nation felt no
> remorse about taking the attacking nations' resources as well as its own to
> pay down the debt.
Possibly a Poul Anderson short story, if the aliens had an odd skin
colour (IIRC blue) but still wanted Earth-women. It doesn't fit what you
write perfectly, and it's also several years since I read it, and anyway
I'm only 90% sure it was by Poul Anderson, but I think it was in an
anthology with science fiction stories about mercenaries. I still have
it, and can go look the story up...
--
Peter Knutsen
sagatafl.org
jonathan
"Derek Janssen" <eja...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:uD%am.1065$646...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> jonathan wrote:
>> It's quite a comprehensive paper put together by a diverse and impressive
>> panel. And after reading it, the question becomes, will 'they' even tell us
>> if life elsewhere were to be found, whether microbial or higher?
>> I kinda doubt it if they would report it publicly having read this.
>> But I also doubt they could keep it secret for very long.
>>
>
> ...So, does THAT one link to a lame website spam, too?
What? Can you speak English please for those that left their
Gibberish to English Translater at work? The link works for me.
>
> (People, the guy who started this mess is NOT YOUR FRIEND!--He was not trying
> to start a salon discussion!!
What mess? Which guy? And what was he really trying to do?
Becuause obviously I doubt if anyone thinks like you, so how
can we be expected to read your mind. We have keyboards
for that.
David Cowie
>
> >People, plants and animals are resources.
>
> YOU TRADE WOOD FOR SHEEP?
>
I think you mean GOT WOOD FOR SHEEP?
Derek Janssen
THIS guy:
And THIS was what he was really trying to do:
> http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/gallery/topinvasionmovies/
...Yep. That was it. That was all. That was everything in the box
except for the foam peanuts.
A stupid generic-magazine list of the week. And not even from a
topic-related site at that.
Why did he post it, if he hadn't written it? Because he wanted to feel
important.
He couldn't post a REAL thread of his own thoughts or opinions--because
then we might *laugh at him*, you see--so he borrowed Some Really Neat
Website Link he'd found on Google or Yahoo homepage that morning, and
then, to make it even more important, said "Gosh, folks, that could be a
REALLY INTERESTING DISCUSSION!...Why don't you hold one for me? @_@ "
"B-but...it sound like a *really neat question*! :( "
Maybe it did...But, y'see, here's the thing: He's not here to read it
now. He posted it to Feel Important, who the hell *cared* about responses??
Right now, you're sitting here rubbing each other's crotches, and you'd
think if you had the free time to do that, you could have the decency or
inspiration to do it with one of your OWN danged threads.
...But, y'see, that's how life goes here at RAMC-F. We've already had
our hollow-question ideas posing desperate-for-identity questions, and
he helped the novelty wear off about six or seven years ago. That's
what made us The Smart People's Group[tm].
Now, I know how it is for you folks in the back country, the other
barbarian groups...No roads, no fire, still using stone tools, and
responding to any idiot who sounds like he's asking a Real Question
without checking him out first?
Well, here's a wake-up call from those more evolved folks over the other
side of the Great River--Either learn from your betters, or keep it in
your own backyard.
(Or does our own Peace Corps have to come over and show how to remove
crosspost group-attributions, TOO?)
Derek Janssen (we've been there, .SF folks, glad you're just finding
this out now)
eja...@verzon.net
Erik Max Francis
> Blow the planet literally to pieces, and you can gather up all the
> goodies as they orbit the Sun, using solar power for processing them.
> So how do you blow up the planet? Well, you take the Moon, and.... ;-)
> It formed after a giant collision, it's fitting it should end in one also.
> Alternately, there's always Mars to use as a impactor, and that route
> gets you even more rocks to process.
There's still plenty of raw material far more easily available for the
taking. No need to spend great energies to shatter planets when you can
spend tiny energies to extract whatever raw materials you want from the
asteroids, moons of the gas giants, and the atmospheres of the gas
giants themselves.
--
Erik Max Francis && m...@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
The woman's movement is no longer a cause but a symptom.
-- Joan Didion
Derek Janssen
wider variety of patients can benefit from it: )
...Oh, and if you were sporting enough to actually READ the linked
article, hoping to find his valuable thoughts and opinions ("So as "The
Invasion" invades theaters across the Bay State..."), you would have
discovered that he was not only hoping to start a conversation over a
weekend movie-filler article, but one from TWO FREAKIN' *YEARS* AGO!!! >:0
How desperate ARE we??
Derek Janssen (people...you don't have to be nice to EVERYONE. Some of
them don't always respond back.)
eja...@verizon.net
Robert Bannister
> charon85 wrote:
>> Simple question, isn't it?
>>
>> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
>> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
>> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
>> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
>> have you some even better idea?
>>
>>
>> http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/gallery/topinvasionmovies/
>>
>
Pest control?
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> Get the federal government even more involved with education. If I traveled
> all these light years, I can wait another 20 or 30 years for the humans to
> be afraid of shooting down my invasion fleet, for fear of releasing green
> house gases to the atmosphere. The men will be to paralyzed with fear of
> offending us to drop kick our 11" warriors to the curb. That's just the
> Americans, the N. Koreans are another problem. They may actually shoot their
> missiles at us!
>
>
They'd probably do that even if a friendly alien embassy arrived.
--
Rob Bannister
Howard Brazee
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."
- James Madison
Rich
> Simple question, isn't it?
>
> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> have you some even better idea?
>
> http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/gallery/topinvasionmovies/
Brainwash the moron general public into believing in global warming
then wasting trillions of $'s that should be spent on defense on the
non-problem.
Pat Flannery
William December Starr wrote:
> "What's all this I hear about anteater bombs?"
>
Consider a antimatter anteater from another galaxy... now consider that
Douglas Adams died way too soon. :-D
"_Antimatter_ ants?"
"The most dangerous sort. Note that the red ant is far ultraviolet and
invisible in its antimatter form."
"Well, how do you see or kill them then?"
"That's the problem... you can't see them...the only way you will know
they are around is if you suddenly start to get a sunburn in a enclosed
dark space, and note the antpits on the ceiling."
"And killing them?"
"Sugar makes them die... but they won't go near it unless it's soured
with vinegar."
"What if they sting us?"
"Well, at first it feels really good... then the shrinking sets in."
Pat
Pat Flannery
Mike Dworetsky wrote:
>>
>> In that case, we need boffo special effects.
>> Drop a giant antimatter bomb into the Sun to create a super solar
>> flare that will sterilize the Earth's ecosystem when it hits the planet.
>>
>> Pat
>
> Sounds a bit like _The Neutronium Alchemist_ by Peter F. Hamilton.
Problem is "Conquering Earth" varies greatly by what exactly you have in
mind:
1.) Enslaving humanity?
2.) Removing humanity, but leaving the plants and animals alive?
3.) Killing all life, but leaving the planet intact for introduction of
an alien ecosystem?
4.) Permanently steralizing the planet to remove it as a potential
future threat to your civilization?
5.) Blowing the whole works up and mining the remains?
Pat
Pat Flannery
Erik Max Francis wrote:
>
> There's still plenty of raw material far more easily available for the
> taking. No need to spend great energies to shatter planets when you
> can spend tiny energies to extract whatever raw materials you want
> from the asteroids, moons of the gas giants, and the atmospheres of
> the gas giants themselves.
Three points:
1.) Total mass of all the asteroids is far lower that that of Mars, or
even Mercury.
2.) In a far closer orbit around the Sun the new asteroid belt will give
you a much- improved ability for using solar power for processing the
remains of the planets.
3.) Your alien competitors will _really_ take you seriously once you
start driving planets and moons around like they are balls on a
billiards table, and shoot Titan into the corner pocket that is Venus
after a banking shot off of Jupiter's gravity well. ;-)
Pat
Dimensional Traveler
that's not an invasion.
Dimensional Traveler
Pat Flannery
Dimensional Traveler wrote:
> Is this an invasion or an interstellar bar bet over a game of billards?
Let's just say they that they will learn to be satisfied with less. ;-)
Ming
jonathan
We must always keep in mind that even aliens have to live by the
same universal laws that we do. And some of the laws of organization
make this discussion moot imo.
For starters, a catch-22 of long distance space travel is that any society
with that kind of technology must also have learned something else.
Which is the ability to live within their means, wrt their planetary
ecosystem. Else they wouldn't be able to survive long enough to
develop such advanced technology. So the /need/ to travel is essentially
lost once the ability has been achieved.
Another is that any govt that is dictatorial in form, the kind that would gladly
trample another planet without conscience, are too volatile, brittle and
short lived to accomplish such long term crimes. A democracy of some
form is the inevitable or most probable final state for any sufficiently
complex adaptive system. In short, Nature always wins in the end.
These are universal laws.
Not to mention the simple fact that faster than light is a pipe-dream.
Faster than light means we could put the egg shell back together again.
That means a universe that doesn't make any sense, have any direction
or purpose. But we can observe the universe is all that and more since
Nature, life and beauty are the mathematical limits this universe
must converge upon eventually. The laws of complexity are clear
on that.
Any conversation alone proves all that and more.
I'm always surprised at the complete lack of knowledge
concerning these very basic facts of Nature. Has anyone
actually read any science or math in the last ten years?
Reminds me of something Carl Sagan said once....
"I can find in my undergraduate classes, bright students
who do not know that the stars rise and set at night, or
even that the Sun is a star."
Self-Organizing Systems (SOS) FAQ
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm
Dynamics of Complex Systems
http://necsi.org/publications/dcs/
If the material in the above links is unfamiliar to you, then
you're about at the level of the students Sagan was talking
about. I apologize for the slant, but there's something else
another thinker said that I hold above all others.
"Truth -- is as old as God --
His Twin identity
And will endure as long as He
A Co-Eternity --
And perish on the Day
Himself is borne away
From Mansion of the Universe
A lifeless Deity."
By Emily Dickinson
Jonathan
s
Erik Max Francis
> We must always keep in mind that even aliens have to live by the
> same universal laws that we do. And some of the laws of organization
> make this discussion moot imo.
>
> For starters, a catch-22 of long distance space travel is that any society
> with that kind of technology must also have learned something else.
> Which is the ability to live within their means, wrt their planetary
> ecosystem. Else they wouldn't be able to survive long enough to
> develop such advanced technology. So the /need/ to travel is essentially
> lost once the ability has been achieved.
This is asserted without any proof, and it's not exactly obvious (to put
it mildly). Either way, it's irrelevant if you're assuming realistic
space travel. There's absolutely no benefit in terms of increased
access to resources for an interstellar colony if you're restricted to
slower-than-light travel.
If faster-than-light travel is possible (big if) and cheap (even bigger
if), then it's barely conceivable. Even then, the notion of _invasion_
still makes very little sense, since resources are abundant in the Solar
System without ever having to bother with the inconvenience of the
gravity well of the surface of a planet, its heavy atmosphere which
causes extreme friction to get there and out again. Never mind the fact
that there might be people already there that would appreciate you not
to be there, thank you very much.
> Another is that any govt that is dictatorial in form, the kind that would gladly
> trample another planet without conscience, are too volatile, brittle and
> short lived to accomplish such long term crimes. A democracy of some
> form is the inevitable or most probable final state for any sufficiently
> complex adaptive system. In short, Nature always wins in the end.
This, too, is stated without proof, and is furthermore rather suspicious
given even our own written history. There were lots of dictatorial
regimes that stuck around for a long time. That doesn't mean that
democracy isn't stable, it's just another unproven (and quite frankly
unknowable) assertion. That there has been a flourish of democracy in
modern times (quite recently in the historical record) is no proof that
they're the inevitable result of history and are the most stable
systems, however much one would wish them to be. There's zero
historical evidence for that.
> These are universal laws.
Calling them "universal laws" is rather laughable. They're neither
universal nor laws any reasonable senses of either of those words.
> Any conversation alone proves all that and more.
> I'm always surprised at the complete lack of knowledge
> concerning these very basic facts of Nature. Has anyone
> actually read any science or math in the last ten years?
You're sure being assertive for someone who's spouting unsupported
gibberish.
--
Erik Max Francis && m...@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
God grant me to contend with those that understand me.
-- Thomas Fuller
Erik Max Francis
> Is this an invasion or an interstellar bar bet over a game of billards?
Any sufficiently advanced civilization's meddling is indistinguishable
between invasion and a game of billiards.
--
Erik Max Francis && m...@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
And though the odds say improbable / What do they know
-- Stevie Wonder
Erik Max Francis
> It's quite a comprehensive paper put together by a diverse and impressive
> panel. And after reading it, the question becomes, will 'they' even tell us
> if life elsewhere were to be found, whether microbial or higher?
> I kinda doubt it if they would report it publicly having read this.
> But I also doubt they could keep it secret for very long.
I've always found this notion that the discovery of extraterrestrial
life would result in major disturbances in society. On the contrary, I
think it would have very little long-term effect to the average person.
It'd be front-page news for a while (probably a long while), it would
stir up a whole lot of activity in astrobiology, it would give a whole
lot of intellectuals and science fiction authors a boner, but it would
have essentially zero effect to the average person (even the average
first-world person).
We've already had a preview of this (though admittedly an effect to a
lesser extent). The announcement of the Mars Rock was treated as
factual by the media (even though it was considered theoretical but
reasonable at the time; since then we've come to conclude that it's
probably _not_ indicative of microbial life on Mars, but that's not
relevant here to the reporting of its discovery and the public
reaction). There was front-page stories for -- how long, a couple of
days? a week maybe? -- and generally, "Wow, that's neat" responses from
the usual suspects, and then back to normal. Even the eventual
conclusion that it's probably not what it seemed like at first was
barely reported and is probably unknown to almost anyone; I'm sure most
people who heard of the story probably still think it's the genuine
article. How does that change their day to day lives?
Then: How would the discovery of a real, intelligence, technological,
communicating civilization somewhere else in the Galaxy affect their
lives? The answer is the same: zip.
Even if it initiated a conversation, it's a very long-term project, and
presumably most people would only live long enough to see a few. The
conversation would be either highly abstract or highly mathematical.
Chemistry is such that it's not a very good bet they'd be based on the
same basic biochemistry, much less the same genetic code, much less
similar enough life forms for us to talk about anything other than
generalities about ourselves, interesting though they may be. No, that
means no magical medical cures, sorry.
It would inspire artists and astrobiologists and perhaps mathematicians
and make for good reportage. It might create some conundrums in
religious circles about the aliens' status vis a vis souls and suchlike,
and probably would spawn off a few cults. Other than that, the average
person would probably say, "Wow, that's wild. Man. So what are we
having for dinner?"
--
Erik Max Francis && m...@alcyone.com && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
San Jose, CA, USA && 37 18 N 121 57 W && AIM/Y!M/Skype erikmaxfrancis
A people birthed in sorrow will die in sorrow.
-- (a Vasudan proverb)
Erik Max Francis
> I've always found this notion that the discovery of extraterrestrial
> life would result in major disturbances in society.
I meant to insert a "highly suspect" there.
David DeLaney
Mars needs _what_?
Dave "subtlety slips things past the cosmic censors" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Pat Flannery
Erik Max Francis wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>> Is this an invasion or an interstellar bar bet over a game of billards?
>
> Any sufficiently advanced civilization's meddling is indistinguishable
> between invasion and a game of billiards.
Phobos in the crater Tycho. ;-)
Pat
Pat Flannery
Pat Flannery wrote:
>
> Phobos in the crater Tycho. ;-)
>
>
Double or nothing... Deimos in the crater Copernicus.
Pat
Dan Tilque
news:h4hlst$330$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> charon85 wrote:
>> Simple question, isn't it?
>>
>> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
>> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
>> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
>> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
>> have you some even better idea?
>>
>
There's only one REAL reason aliens want to invade Earth:
THEY WANT OUR WOMEN!!
--
Dan Tilque
Pat Flannery
Dan Tilque wrote:
>
> There's only one REAL reason aliens want to invade Earth:
>
> THEY WANT OUR WOMEN!!
>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mysterians
Hoi! This never must be allowed to occur!:
"Good luck- I've never seen it, and even "The Mysterians" is hard to come
by - and that's such a blast of a movie - as our poor betrayed Dr.
Shirishi thinks that the aliens are good guys, only to find out that
they are here just to breed with Japanese women and wear really silly
looking space helmets and sunglasses, while hiding out in a giant toy
top on
the bottom of a lake...but these refugees from "A group of small stars
between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter" have some major league kick-ass
weapons to stomp the sons of the rising sun with in their quest for
interplanetary poon-tang. Luckily, after the Japanese Self Defense Force
gets its oriental ass swatted once again while futilely trying to stop
the destruction of the already radioactive reptile breath scorched and
giant moth silk strewn Nipponese homeland, the UN gets involved in a way
that would cause heart seizure among Montana Militia Movement members;
by pulling out THEIR kick-ass weapons, like the twin nuclear rocket
driven giant lift-jet aerodyne/dirigible/what's-it's (truly wondrous
machines that had to have been bought at the International Rescue
rummage sale.) to rain down super incendiaries on the all-too-horny
heads of the alien miscreants, and teach them that when it comes to
demure Japanese women, only animated tentacle sex is allowed, and then
only if they have green hair, and eyes the size of baseballs.
But this is only the beginning of the triple threat that the U.N. has in
store for the Casanovas from space, as after one of the flying
what's-it's gets blown to Yasukuni Shrine by the carefully and gaudily
animated alien lightning rays, step two swings into action- as giant
rockets propel the twin U.N. Markalites into the interplanetary cage
match! What, you will ask,
is a "Markalite"? To tell you the truth I wasn't sure either, but as
soon as the head of the beleaguered Japanese "Defense Of Our Women's
Honor Combined Force" laid eyes on the blueprints of it, he knew it was a
"Markalite", and capable of some of the most garishly impressive visual
effects ever seen on the silver screen- the immense, quadra-treaded
radar dishes crawl across country under remote control, reflecting the
cosmic cockhound's lightning rays right back into their slimy little
radiation scarred faces, while kicking in more lightning of their own
just to really show them who's boss in this burg.
But the giant top is resistant to this also, merely bouncing up and
down and emitting a sound suspiciously like an occidental raspberry, and
the Markalite's 60,000 D cell batteries start losing their juice after
a few rounds, like kid's toys on a late Christmas night....but the OTHER
flying what's-it has returned to the Tokyo Airfield (now rechristened
Virtue And Chastity Of The Dewey-Eyed Flowers Of Our Homeland's Strategic
Alien Repulsion Group Headquarters Airfield Number One- this translates
into Japanese as "Kinimona") so now it's time to pull out all the stops and
really let the panting peckerheads from the stars have it... The captain
has his hand on a great big lever, and is looking at great big gauges on
the ubergizmo's two story flight deck- and what's coming out of the nose
turret
this time is THE ATOMIC HEAT CANNON'S RAY... so powerful, that it is even
animated in two colors! Combined with Dr. Shirishi's belated turn to the
Bright Side of the Force, and his return to Vigorous And Morally Pure
Japanese Manhood (untainted by the desire to have any relationship with
filthy, horny, aliens, no matter how many babes they could get him at
ray gun point), the aliens meet their well-deserved fate. As the Atomic
Heat Cannon starts
tearing the giant water top apart from the outside, Dr. Shirishi starts
zapping and kicking over every Tesla Coil, Jacob's Ladder, Klystron
Tube, and Lava Lamp in sight, leaving their Lounge Lizard Disco-Ball of
a "Submarine Lake Fort For The Corruption Of Innocent Japanese Women,
And Their Ultimate Impregnation With Our Seed" (Alien Translation:
Vlortu) a pile of shorting, smoking ruin, like Studio 54 after an
all-nighter by the Sex Pistols.
So the aliens cut out, unlaid and unmissed; and for another week, Japan
is safe....until that iceberg with the glowing fins sticking out of its
top drifts into the south seas, and begins to melt."
Pat
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
>
>
> Dan Tilque wrote:
>
>>
>> There's only one REAL reason aliens want to invade Earth:
>>
>> THEY WANT OUR WOMEN!!
>>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mysterians
> Hoi! This never must be allowed to occur!:
One of the great classics!
"Destroy All Monsters", however, had alien invasions AND Godzilla, so
it was even better!
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
bob haller
travel, which would make this all possible
David Johnston
wrote:
That's a rather over-reaching assumption. In any case, "need" is not
"want". The historical colonizing powers weren't being driven by
"need".
>
>Another is that any govt that is dictatorial in form, the kind that would gladly
>trample another planet without conscience, are too volatile, brittle and
>short lived to accomplish such long term crimes. A democracy of some
>form is the inevitable or most probable final state for any sufficiently
>complex adaptive system. In short, Nature always wins in the end.
>These are universal laws.
There is no historical basis for an assumption that democracy is
necessarily longer lived than a non-democracy or that a democracy
would necessarily have significant qualms about exploiting
primitives.
trotsky
How does that compare to the trillions of dollars already being spent on
defense, Rich?
Shawn Wilson
> Simple question, isn't it?
>
> If you arrived to Earth, after traveling uncounted light years, how
> would be the best way to conquer it? Would you attack in full force,
> as in The War of the Worlds or Independence Day, or would you prefer
> to quietly subvert mankind as in Invasion of the Body Snatchers? Or
> have you some even better idea?
I was recently thinking about writing a story about a person who
'accidently' becomes a D&Dish 20th level Lich/Wizard (or Cleric 20, I
haven't made up my mind).
That Mayan 2012 thing marks the turning of the spheres that returns
magic to the world. He commits the very first murder in the new world
order and so becomes the avatar of the god of murder. He's a 20th
level magic user in a world without any other magic (yet). It, of
course, starts with his self-serving explanation that being a chaotic
evil undead avatar of the god of murder doesn't necessarily make him a
bad person. (of course it ends with the destruction of most life on
Earth. But it's not his fault. None of the terrible things he was
forced to do were his fault...)
So, anyway. Wizard 20 (or Cleric 20) with access to every D&D spell
in the Players Handbook. How does he conqer the world?
One afternoon and Domination spells, lots of them... Not for every
person on Earth, of course. But enough for all the important
leaders.
I have an idea for a scene where he is taunting the 'good guys' after
they have tried and failed to kill him. (someone at some point will
try a nuclear weapon- Lich, phylactory...) He is pointing out that it
would take magical weapons to kill him and there aren't any. Oh, some
'mundane' weapons become magic through their use, like the knife that
killed Caesar, or the gun that killed Archduke Ferdinand... Or, oops,
the knife he usd to commit the murder that made him the avatar of the
god of murder in the first place, and he's lost it...
Madara0806
> I would go to Iran and North Korea, and give them the technology for the
> most powerful weapon ever devised. Then I would go to the USA, Soviet Union,
> China, Britain and France, and tell them that you just gave Iran and North
> Korea the means to produce the ultimate weapon that has no defense. Then I
> would tell the USA (privately) that the Soviet Union has stolen that
> technology from North Korea. Then I would go to the Soviet Union and tell
> them (privately) that the USA has stolen that weapon technology from Iran.
> Then I would sit back and watch the show...
\
>
>
>
>
>
That is SOOOOO 1985.