Puzzle Design
Lindy
How do you figure out what sort of puzzles to put in your game?
Do you start by making logical objects that would be lying around in your
game areas and figure out puzzlish things that could be done with them?
Do you look for points in your intended storyline where you can insert
obstacles and then make up puzzles and create the tools to solve them?
Do you try to implement only the sorts of puzzles and challenges that
someone in the position of the player would logically encounter?
What would you suggest as good puzzle-making methods for people who have
trouble coming up with them?
Stephen L Breslin
>How do you figure out what sort of puzzles to put in your game?
I prefer simulation and plot to puzzles.
>Do you start by making logical objects that would be lying around in your
>game areas and figure out puzzlish things that could be done with them?
That's one way. That's probably the second step, though. The first
step in puzzle manufacture would probably be to figure out some
puzzles and then make a game in which these puzzles can be solved.
From there, the game will suggest other logical problems, and then you
get into the area you're suggesting.
>Do you look for points in your intended storyline where you can insert
>obstacles and then make up puzzles and create the tools to solve them?
Yes, and puzzles almost always come in the form of obstacles; the
solution often comes in the form of using tools (or game objects).
Sometimes a puzzle will make you rethink the plot. So it's a "works
both ways" relation. Often authors damage their good ideas by forcing
puzzles into the work. (See my final note.)
>Do you try to implement only the sorts of puzzles and challenges that
>someone in the position of the player would logically encounter?
It depends on how logical your game world is. Conventionally, yes.
>What would you suggest as good puzzle-making methods for people who have
>trouble coming up with them?
There's more to IF than puzzles. Maybe you would prefer to write a
relatively puzzle-free IF game. For one answer to your question, you
might get a _good_ book of logic puzzles, just to activate that part
of your brain. Most books of logic problems are terrible; I would
recommend anything by Martin Gardner that looks appealing.
You will note that that most heavily-puzzled games traditionally have
relatively little plot, and tend to suffer logic and cohesion
problems.
Cryptonomic
news:tvugkuov9fnpgavsf...@4ax.com...
> How do you figure out what sort of puzzles to put in your game?
I am a newcomer to IF, at least in terms of trying to write it. So with that
in mind, here is what I have been doing:
In my initial forays, I have not been so much concerned about the overall
"logical-ness" in terms of reality. More, I have been concerned with the
pure logicalness of the puzzles. For example, you will see a thread here
called "Leaving 'Destroyer' Objects Unattended" where I have been asking
about a specific puzzle I am crafting that is a rough analogue of the
rock-paper-scissors routine. In reality, this puzzle would be silly but in
the context of the story file/game world, it is based on a set of logical
constraints. That allows me to learn how to do the coding. Then, however, I
can now apply that knowledge to real-world analogues simply by taking that
puzzle type and transplating it into a more "real-world" setting. So with
this example, I did not do this:
> Do you start by making logical objects that would be lying around in your
> game areas and figure out puzzlish things that could be done with them?
Rather, I took a logical puzzle or situation that I wanted the present to a
player and then decided on what kind of objects I could use that would
showcase that logical puzzle. I find it hard to work from the
object-to-story way of doing things. Rather I usually need some sort of idea
and then build logical objects around that story idea.
> Do you look for points in your intended storyline where you can insert
> obstacles and then make up puzzles and create the tools to solve them?
This is closer to what I do. Before I even think up the "storyline", I tend
to think of what kinds of puzzles I would like to try to have the player
solve - just in general. This can often lead me to story ideas, or at least
particular ideas within a story's overall plot, that I would not otherwise
consider. (I say that because sometimes too much story detail for me up
front can constrain my puzzle ideas. I need to have a little free reign.)
However there is a feedback effect there for me. Once I start with that, I
find my puzzle ideas can then often start shaping my story as well. More
specifically, that allows me to shape my plotting as well as my plot. Too
often I find stories/games that seem to have puzzles tacked on for no other
reason than there had to be *something* there but do not really advance the
plot or seem like a break in the plot just for the sake of having a puzzle
for the player to solve.
> What would you suggest as good puzzle-making methods for people who have
> trouble coming up with them?
What I have used as my thought material is logical puzzles to a large
extent. I read the works of Martin Gardner or Raymond Smullyan, for example,
and get ideas from that kind of stuff. Mind you, I do not like to just copy
those puzzle formats down verbatim because that is not really a game then or
even a story: it is just a way to present the puzzles in a new format. But I
find those kinds of puzzles are good fodder for thinking up odd situations
to put the player in. What I have found the hardest is coming up with
puzzles that actively complement the plotting of the story. (A good example,
for me, of a game that does this just right is "Spider And Web". An old
Infocom game that I think did this well was "Stationfall". Mind you, I am
not necessarily speaking to "good" or "bad" *plots* here; I am speaking to
puzzles that complement the *plotting* used in the story. As an example of a
game that I think did this poorly was Infocom's "Sherlock: The Riddle of the
Crown Jewels".)
Again, please take all this as being from a person who has played IF for a
long time but has only just begun looking into writing it. That probably
means it is not worth much at all but at least it gives you one "newbie's"
opinion on overall approach.
- Cryptonomic
Tarage
the beginning and the end and then figure out how to make it interesting
along the way. Because there's no fun in reading the first page and
skipping through pages and pages of blank stuff 'til you reach the last
page. I just imagine what sort of obstacles would naturally spring up
from the locale. Take for instance, an abandoned warehouse. Jump fifty
years into the future. What would have happened to it to make movement
difficult? What might be hidden in the places where access has been
restricted? So my approach is both location-driven and plot driven.
Plot-driven because there must be some way to get from the beginning to
the end, and the straightest line is the most boring. There's twists and
turns, and perhaps other forces that don't want you (the character) to
get there...also I just do other things if I feel like I'm stuck. So far
the ideas have just been popping out of the woodwork to me...
~Tarage
JS
layout of an area, then begin fitting some puzzles to a particular item in a
particular area.
example: If there is a door leading from the outside to the inside of a
house, how can I make it more interesting than "open door"? Lock the
door....Hmmmm...Don't want the key in the obvious place (under the door
mat), so put it someplace else that is a bit trickier to get to....etc...
The second step is to look at the "finished" product of getting from the
beginning to the end, with all the afore mentioned puzzles, and figure out
what would make it more interesting from there...
example: Ok, you get the key from under the bush, unlock the door, head
upstairs, go to the attic, and the game is over...What if the owner of the
house is on the stairs...How can you get past them? What if the attic door
is locked from the inside? etc...
By the time those are gone through, you can have a pretty lengthy game,
along with various (divergent) story lines. That works out best for me,
anyway...:) (Provided, I have put in any puzzles that I worked out while
writing the story line.)
Hope this helped! :)
JS
"Lindy" <user...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:tvugkuov9fnpgavsf...@4ax.com...
>
Penner Theologius Pott
Characters and plot points, at a fundamental level, are about goals
and conflicts. I find that that's the easiest way for me to develop a
story: find what the goals are at any given point, and then figure out
what the logical obstacles are.
Figuring out how to get past that obstacle, of course, is the puzzle.
There's a good article on xyzzynews.com called "The Art of the Puzzle"
if you can find it, that's basically a panel discussion of this very
question.
A.P. Hill
you have the advantage of seeing behind the scenes. The player starts
with a very black room. A door is a puzzle.
>
> Do you start by making logical objects that would be lying around in your
> game areas and figure out puzzlish things that could be done with them?
>
> Do you look for points in your intended storyline where you can insert
> obstacles and then make up puzzles and create the tools to solve them?
>
> Do you try to implement only the sorts of puzzles and challenges that
> someone in the position of the player would logically encounter?
>
> What would you suggest as good puzzle-making methods for people who have
> trouble coming up with them?
A.P. Hill
More Wine please.
Jim Aikin
> How do you figure out what sort of puzzles to put in your game?
Ideally, one wants puzzles that grow naturally out of the scenario. So
the question that's anterior to any of the questions you asked is
perhaps, "How do you come up with a scenario that provides the raw
material for good puzzles?" Science fiction and fantasy scenarios work
very well, because you can introduce peculiar gadgets and mysterious
forces. Trying to insert good puzzles into a realistic scenario is
somewhat harder, I think.
> Do you start by making logical objects that would be lying around in your
> game areas and figure out puzzlish things that could be done with them?
Sometimes, yeah. In my work-in-progress I've introduced several things
that will probably become components of puzzles, sooner or later. I have
no idea WHAT the singing flower or the purple gas will be relevant to,
or what will be inscribed on the stone slab, but I'm confident I'll be
able to come up with something.
If not, they'll be scenery. And that's perfectly okay. One of the design
principles I try to follow is that there shouldn't be a one-to-one
correspondence between the available tools and the puzzle solutions. A
few puzzles should have multiple solutions. A few things that are
apparently tools should not in fact be useful. A few tools should be
useful for solving more than one puzzle. And one or two things that look
for all the world like puzzles might not in fact be soluble at all.
> What would you suggest as good puzzle-making methods for people who have
> trouble coming up with them?
A three-ring binder with a bunch of blank paper in it, your favorite
sort of pen or pencil, and a chunk of time where you can be
uninterrupted. Sometimes listening to Bach is good, but sometimes even
Bach is distracting. I've also been known to develop puzzles while
driving on the freeway.
The ur-method is, "Use your imagination."
--Jim Aikin
Mario Becroft
> How do you figure out what sort of puzzles to put in your game?
Warning: long, and mild spoilers for "Journey from an Islet" below.
I have written only one game, although a couple of others exist in my
imagination or in a partial implementation. My one game ("Journey from an
Islet") is probably not even a very good example. It is essentially a
one-puzzle game--the game is the puzzle, although there are a few other
minor puzzles along the way. It received mixed reviews. That said, I have
received some very positive feedback, to the effect that the bird puzzle
was "simply beautiful" or "among my favourite puzzles in any work of IF."
So perhaps I did something right. I am very aware that the game could have
been much better: although I still love the concept of the puzzle I
created, I know that my implementation was imperfect. But I know that had
I tried to do better I would never have finished the game, so I am happy
with what I achieved.
How did I come up with the bird puzzle? Well that is really tied up with
how I invented the whole concept of the game. If a game is to be really
good, I don't think these two things can be entirely separated. The
puzzles should be a natural part of the story or environment.
I find that I only write a game because I have already dreamed up some
beautiful image or idea that I can see in my mind's eye--beautiful enough
that I would like to realise it somehow. Sometimes I will realise an idea
as a painting, perhaps, other times it seems ideally suited to become IF.
Therefore, whenever I start writing a game I already have a beautiful idea
in my mind, and it becomes a case of finding a way to implement it. This
is the most difficult part to me, especially as often the idea I have is
rather general. But through thinking very hard about it, and trying to
devise an actual implementation (on paper only), I end up refining and
changing the idea. The result may end up quite different to what I started
with, but the essential beauty remains (or else I have worked the idea to
death).
In the case of Journey, I began with some very general ideas, and over
time developed these almost to the point where I could almost have started
writing a game. I think at this stage I had a vague idea of a bird flying
upwards majestically at the end of the game. I may still write that game
some day (it was to be quite a large game), but I somehow knew that there
was something beautiful waiting to be realised in the bird idea. The idea
kept floating around in my mind, and then one day the image of the birds
in The Little Prince occured to me, and suddenly it all fell into place
(almost).
The player would be the Little Prince. The aim of the game would be to
escape with the migrating birds. I knew I wanted music to come into it. At
first I was still thinking of a single bird, but then the idea of 6 birds,
in the colours of the rainbow, occured to me, and I saw that this fitted
in perfectly with the number of notes in the scale and so on. At this
point I knew I had a wonderful idea. You know this whenever everything
just falls into place, and the aspects of the idea complement oneanother
perfectly--there seems to be an elegance inherent in the design.
I had already reduced the idea down to something very clear and practical,
so it remained only to implement it. The remaining minor puzzles, such as
taming the sheep, and making the string, just came naturally as part of
the story.
As you can see, I never really gave any thought to invention of puzzles.
The puzzles were inherent in the concept behind the game, and could never
have been otherwise. Invention of the concept is a creative process.
What usually guides me in the creation of any artwork is a wish to achieve
something of beauty and elegance. I suppose this means that I will only
ever produce a certain sort of game.
Actually, for my latest game idea I have changed tack somewhat, as I am
thinking of a humorous game set in a farcical technology/ engineering
company. But those principles that I have mentioned are already showing
through in the concept I am developing. Once more, the puzzles are a
natural and essential part of the environment and story. (I will not
comment on specifics yet.)
One other point. None of my game ideas involve complex plots (unlike some
works of IF). I suspect that for a more story-oriented game, the process
would be different--puzzles would be dictated by the story rather than by
an attempt at creating beauty in art. However, I suspect that once again
if you have invented a good a story, the puzzles would be an obvious and
natural part of it.
So in the end, I never find myself in a position of trying to figure out
what sort of puzzle to put in my game. If I did not already know that, I
would not even have the basis for a game.
Well I am not sure how helpful this is. I am in a verbose mood, and I just
felt like writing about the design process. I hope something useful is
there.
Doug Roberts
between the start of the game and the conclusion" rather than your
typical brain teaser.
I normally start with a scenario and the "winning" outcome in mind and
then work on ways to make the journey from point 'a' to point 'b' as
interesting as possible. Obstacles should be placed in the players
path, so that over coming these will give them a feeling that they are
achieving something and pushing their way towards the final goal.
I also like to put in a few sidetracks that while not essential to
completing the game, help to create the environment in which the
players character exists.
Everything should fit though. Sticking a super-mean Troll in front of
the stationary cupboard in an adventure set in an office would be
massively out of place.
Doug.
Eric Smith
> Everything should fit though. Sticking a super-mean Troll in front of
> the stationary cupboard in an adventure set in an office would be
> massively out of place.
Nah, that fits perfectly. I've worked in several offices with
trolls. They were disguised as humans, though not very convincingly.