Tell me about the Other
Rev Ringo
I need a run-down on "The Other"
SO far in my hasty wanderings, I haven't encountered it.
I want to know everything about it, where it's sighted, is it in the books only
or the tv show as well, etc...
ANd Idon't mind spoilers.
I want it all.
--the rev
Jon Blum
"The Other" is only explicitly mentioned in two books, but there are indirect
references in the episodes and the NA's. He is (one of) the mysterious
figure(s) in the Old Time of Gallifrey who is somehow connected to the Doctor.
Minor SPOILERS for "Remembrance of the Daleks", "Silver Nemesis", "Curse of
Fenric", "Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible", "Transit", "The Pit", and "The
Dimension Riders" below...
The first hint we get to this plot is a throwaway comment in the TV version
of "Remembrance of the Daleks". The Doctor is talking about the Hand of
Omega, and says in passing "And didn't we have trouble with the prototype."
"We?" Ace asks.
The Doctor gives her a look. "They."
Now this could be dismissed as the Doctor using "we" to refer to Time Lords
in general, rather than specifically himself, so it didn't provoke much of a
furor on first airing. Then came the climax of "Silver Nemesis", where
Peinforte threatens to tell the world who the Doctor really is. She says:
"I shall tell them Gallifrey. Tell them of the Old Time. The Time
of Chaos. Your secrets, Doctor..."
There's also a scene between the Doctor and Ace earlier on which parallels
the scene in "Remembrance". Talking about the living metal validium, the
Doctor says that it was created by "Rassilon..."
"And?"
"Omega."
"And?"
"AND none of it should have ever left Gallifrey."
This is the first explicit hint that there was a third great figure working
at the side of these two.
There are no other specific references to the dark days of Gallifrey in the
remaining McCoy stories, though there are other hints that the Doctor is "not
just a Time Lord". The mystery didn't kick into high gear until the
publication of the novel of "Remembrance", which features flashbacks to the
construction of the Hand and the entombment of Omega. Here we see the
three figures who lead the operation, and the book says that two of them
would go on to become legends of Time Lord history, while the other one would
vanish from its pages.
The three are Rassilon, Omega... and the other one, who remains unnamed. This
third figure is presented as the moral one of the three, reminding Omega of
the effects their tampering with the universe had on the Minyans. The Other
(fans started referring to him with a capital 'O' because, well, he sounded
like he deserved it) isn't explicitly linked to the Doctor, but there are
definite suggestions.
"Silver Nemesis" added nothing to its novelization, so the next development
had to wait for the New Adventures, in "Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible" by
Marc Platt. A counter-plot in the book takes place in the Old Time, as
the Gallifreyans are emerging from mysticism into science under Rassilon.
The Other makes a pair of shock appearances -- including one where he makes
enigmatic comments about the future. The Doctor's time. However, the main
plot of "Time's Crucible" makes it clear that the Doctor has never been
back to the Old Time -- at least not yet.
Ben Aaronovitch, who created "The Other", doesn't refer to him explicitly
in his NA "Transit", but he does follow up on events in "Cat's Cradle"
involving the Old Time. There's also a line where the Doctor speculates
that perhaps his subconscious is not his own; make of that what you will.
Many have.
Neil Penswick's NA "The Pit" features a mad Time Lord general from the Old
Time, Kopyion Liall a Mahejetsu, who rants about how Rassilon steered the
Time Lords away from the true path of prayer, et cetera et cetera. There
are references to how Kopyion "disappeared from history", which suggests
to some (like me) that Penswick wanted Kopyion to be an explanation for
"the Other" totally at odds with the one Aaronovitch and Platt were setting
up. However, since "The Pit" is to the NA's what "Spock's Brain" is to
the original Star Trek, most people don't take the implications too seriously.
:-)
Finally (to date), Daniel Blythe's "The Dimension Riders" throws a monkey
wrench in the works by suggesting that the Doctor knows far more details
about the Old Time than he's been letting on. The Prelude hints that he
had a hand in the construction of the Matrix, and dialogue within the book
implies that the Doctor knows he will travel to the Old Time in the future,
and quite a bit of what will happen. Knowledge he hadn't displayed in
"Time's Crucible". This story suggests quite strongly that the Other is
a future incarnation of the Doctor, though it could also be interpreted,
in light of the earlier stories, that the Doctor has the memories of the
Other passed through his subconscious.
Then, of course, there's the novel of "The Curse of Fenric", which suggests
that the presence which inhabits the back of the Doctor's mind might be
even older than the Time Lords... as old as the primal evil of Fenric.
Perhaps this force has inhabited both the Other and the Doctor, and has
placed them both in the role of, as Paul Cornell refers to it, "Time's
Champion."
But we don't know for sure.
And somehow I don't think they're going to tell us if they can help it.
Still, there's always Andrew Cartmel's upcoming NA "Warhead" to wonder about...
Regards,
Jon Blum
(posting yet again from a backup account)
Jennikatra
>>In article <2qs6b4$6...@search01.news.aol.com> revr...@aol.com (Rev Ringo)
writes:
>>Okay everyone,
>>I need a run-down on "The Other"
>>SO far in my hasty wanderings, I haven't encountered it.
>>I want to know everything about it, where it's sighted, is it in the books
only or the tv show as well, etc...
>>ANd Idon't mind spoilers.
>>I want it all.
>"The Other" is only explicitly mentioned in two books, but there are indirect
references in the episodes and the NA's. He is (one of) the mysterious
figure(s) in the Old Time of Gallifrey who is somehow connected to the Doctor.
Jon, don't forget that fascinating idea that was raised some time ago about how
hints of the Doctor being "the Other" could be explained by his having been
possessed by Omega in "Arc of Infinity," therefore maybe he's imagining having
been a colleague/contemporary of Omega/Rassilon. :-)
By the way, Rev, you could've looked through a few posts re: this subject on
AOL itself. Heh heh. ;-)
>Still, there's always Andrew Cartmel's upcoming NA "Warhead" to wonder
about...
Ah, you mean "Warlock." :-) Blah, I'm so annoyed that Kate's "Set Piece" has
been delayed by *Cartmel*. I didn't like "Warhead" very much; may this second
attempt be better.
RSHadley / Jen
jenni...@aol.com
--Gone crazy. Be back later.
Phil Edwards
> "Silver Nemesis" added nothing to its novelization, so the next development
> had to wait for the New Adventures, in "Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible" by
> Marc Platt. A counter-plot in the book takes place in the Old Time, as
> the Gallifreyans are emerging from mysticism into science under Rassilon.
> The Other makes a pair of shock appearances -- including one where he makes
> enigmatic comments about the future. The Doctor's time. However, the main
> plot of "Time's Crucible" makes it clear that the Doctor has never been
> back to the Old Time -- at least not yet.
The most damning line from this book (I thought) was during one of the Other's
visits to Gallifrey's past. The scene features Rassilon, Omega, and the Other,
in Rassilon's office. I believe the Captain of the TimeScaphe was there, too.
The Captain finishes describing the Doctor, and Rassilon says, "Is that how we
are to be in the future? Strange and small? [Looking at the Other] No
offence."
And we all know that while Syl is incredibly charismatic, he is a bit on the
short side....anyone else get the feeling that this line was written just for
Syl's Doctor?
:-)
--
Phil Edwards, pedw...@valhalla.cs.wright.edu
"You don't understand; I'm not supposed to exist."
"Then you won't feel the bullets when we shoot you."
-Doctor and Brigadier, _Inferno_
Jonathan Blum
> Bugger the spoilers, this info isn't all that deep and disturbing.
>For the purposes of the NA's and the MA'S, the Other ISN'T the Doctor,
>according to the NA/MA writer's Guidelines. And that's that.
Hmm, maybe this is a more recent version of the Guidelines than I'd
seen -- which is likely, since I haven't seen any since the days of
the Timewyrm...
Could you actually post the relevant quotes from the guidelines, if
you have them?
Regards,
Jon Blum
(still wrestling with the new text editor they've installed on this