Third Summer brother?!?
MT
Josée Dupont wrote:
>
> Gess what, I might know who the third Summer brother is. Nightcrawler.
> Perhaps Mystique fooled old Corsair into thinking she was his wife.
> Why not?
Why not? Because Sabretooth was Nightcrawler's father, not Corsair. No,
really! I can back this up, although I don't see why there would be any
confusion over it.
--
Remove NOSPAM to reply.
Grinding into Emptiness, industrial e-zine: http://www.emptiness.net.
Lorna Hebert
MrModok wrote:
>
> >From: MT <NOSPA...@jps.net>
> >
> >Josée Dupont wrote:
> >>
> >> Gess what, I might know who the third Summer brother is. Nightcrawler.
> >> Perhaps Mystique fooled old Corsair into thinking she was his wife.
> >> Why not?
> >
> > Why not? Because Sabretooth was Nightcrawler's father, not Corsair. No,
> >really! I can back this up, although I don't see why there would be any
> >confusion over it.
>
> that Mystique and some unnamed German baron are Kurt's parents. Mystique and
> Sabretooth are the parents of Graydon Creed, former presidential candidate.
However, it was implied in an issue of X-Caliber that Victor Creed was
Kurt Darkholme's father, during AoA at least. At least that's what I
garnered from a line by Mystique about her finding him him a father that
would provide him with thick fur and claws. Someone with access to that
issue could help out, please.
Besides the only source about the random baron that I know of came from
X-Men Unlimited #4, which I consider to be a bunch of lies, and
half-truths, not the most reliable source for canon.
> OT: It's interesting to note that in some circles have their own theory of
> Kurt parentage, a theory which I happen to prefer. Claremont's original
> intention was to have Destiny be Kurt's mother and Mystique the "father".
This idea was recently seen in South Park, BTW.
Ed Hebert
MT
> > >Corsair. No, really! I can back this up, although I don't see why
> > >there would be any confusion over it.
> >
> > No, you're confused. Sabretooth is not Nightcrawler's dad. It's
> > been revealed that Mystique and some unnamed German baron are Kurt's
> > parents. Mystique and Sabretooth are the parents of Graydon Creed,
> > former presidential candidate.
Yes, and as Lorna describes below, Mystique alludes to Kurt's parentage
as being Sabretooth (And when she morphs into Sabretooth, she says,
"Come to daddy and play!" or something like that). It was in X-Calibre
#4, I think. And since there is NO way Kurt would turn out the same in
this reality if he had a different father, I am willing to believe that
Graydon is not Nightcrawler's step-brother, but true brother or even a
twin.
> However, it was implied in an issue of X-Caliber that Victor
> Creed was Kurt Darkholme's father, during AoA at least. At least
> that's what I garnered from a line by Mystique about her finding him
> him a father that would provide him with thick fur and claws. Someone
> with access to that issue could help out, please.
Unfortunately, I don't have it, either, but that's the one.
> Besides the only source about the random baron that I know of
> came from X-Men Unlimited #4, which I consider to be a bunch of lies,
> and half-truths, not the most reliable source for canon.
Exactly. Mystique revealed the truth as she saw fit, perhaps to
manipulate them later.
Josée Dupont
Gess what, I might know who the third Summer brother is. Nightcrawler.
Perhaps Mystique fooled old Corsair into thinking she was his wife. Why not?
Wildchild
MrModok
>really! I can back this up, although I don't see why there would be any
>confusion over it.
No, you're confused. Sabretooth is not Nightcrawler's dad. It's been revealed
that Mystique and some unnamed German baron are Kurt's parents. Mystique and
Sabretooth are the parents of Graydon Creed, former presidential candidate.
OT: It's interesting to note that in some circles have their own theory of
Kurt parentage, a theory which I happen to prefer. Claremont's original
intention was to have Destiny be Kurt's mother and Mystique the "father".
-Citrus-Lad's pal, Jon Trouten
tru...@rocketmail.com
In article <3595CC...@jps.net>,
NOSPA...@jps.net wrote:
>
> Lorna Hebert wrote:
> >
> > MrModok wrote:
> > >
> > > >From: MT <NOSPA...@jps.net>
> > > >
> > > >Corsair. No, really! I can back this up, although I don't see why
> > > >there would be any confusion over it.
> > >
> > > No, you're confused. Sabretooth is not Nightcrawler's dad. It's
> > > been revealed that Mystique and some unnamed German baron are Kurt's
> > > parents. Mystique and Sabretooth are the parents of Graydon Creed,
> > > former presidential candidate.
>
> as being Sabretooth (And when she morphs into Sabretooth, she says,
> "Come to daddy and play!" or something like that). It was in X-Calibre
> #4, I think. And since there is NO way Kurt would turn out the same in
> this reality if he had a different father, I am willing to believe that
> Graydon is not Nightcrawler's step-brother, but true brother or even a
> twin.
>
> > However, it was implied in an issue of X-Caliber that Victor
> > Creed was Kurt Darkholme's father, during AoA at least. At least
> > that's what I garnered from a line by Mystique about her finding him
> > him a father that would provide him with thick fur and claws. Someone
> > with access to that issue could help out, please.
>
> Unfortunately, I don't have it, either, but that's the one.
>
> > Besides the only source about the random baron that I know of
> > came from X-Men Unlimited #4, which I consider to be a bunch of lies,
> > and half-truths, not the most reliable source for canon.
>
> Exactly. Mystique revealed the truth as she saw fit, perhaps to
> manipulate them later.
>
So you can't trust what Mystique says, but you base the
Sabertooth/Nightcrawler theory on something Mystique says.
I don't know, I guess it's possible. I'm not exactly a repository of X-Men
esoterica. But personally, I don't buy it. I'm sticking with the 'German
baron' theory. I seem to recall that theory being older than X-Men Unlimited
#4 (which, I agree, never happened.) And I just find it much more likely.
However, your mileage may vary.
-- Wade (who likes Kurt, no matter who his daddy is)
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
MT
tru...@rocketmail.com wrote:
>
> So you can't trust what Mystique says, but you base the
> Sabertooth/Nightcrawler theory on something Mystique says.
I dunno if you had to quote the entire post to make this point, but oh
well.
And in answer to the above, yes. Mystique in this reality is a devious
person, and she was purposely manipulating the truth for her own ends.
In AoA, she was mind-controlled when she turned into Sabretooth and made
the "Come to daddy!" comment - I doubt she could lie then.
> I don't know, I guess it's possible. I'm not exactly a repository of
> X-Men esoterica. But personally, I don't buy it. I'm sticking with the
> 'German baron' theory. I seem to recall that theory being older than
> X-Men Unlimited #4 (which, I agree, never happened.) And I just find
> it much more likely.
Maybe Creed WAS the German baron in some way. Secret mission, maybe? Of
course, he was supposed to have died.
> However, your mileage may vary.
Oh, it does.
Paul O'Brien
In article <3595CC...@jps.net>, MT <NOSPA...@jps.net> writes
>
> Yes, and as Lorna describes below, Mystique alludes to Kurt's parentage
>as being Sabretooth (And when she morphs into Sabretooth, she says,
>"Come to daddy and play!" or something like that). It was in X-Calibre
>#4, I think.
It's possible, of course, that for whatever reason the AoA Kurt
was raised by Mystique and Sabretooth. I don't really buy the idea
of Warren throwing in something like that with the serious intention
of following up on it - his interest in continuity questions has
always been pretty minimal.
Paul O'Brien
pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk, www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~prob/
Just as long as the bloody English don't win.
Dryden Lewis
The third brothe is Gambit!!!!!!!!
tru...@rocketmail.com
In article <35966F...@jps.net>,
NOSPA...@jps.net wrote:
>
> tru...@rocketmail.com wrote:
> >
> > So you can't trust what Mystique says, but you base the
> > Sabertooth/Nightcrawler theory on something Mystique says.
>
> I dunno if you had to quote the entire post to make this point, but oh
> well.
You're right. At the time, I didn't feel like trying to decide what to take
out, but I should have taken the two minutes to do it. My apologies.
> And in answer to the above, yes. Mystique in this reality is a devious
> person, and she was purposely manipulating the truth for her own ends.
Definitely. In addition, anything that happened in that issue is suspect, as
the responsible parties seemed pretty devious as well. That or careless. You
decide.
> In AoA, she was mind-controlled when she turned into Sabretooth and made
> the "Come to daddy!" comment - I doubt she could lie then.
>
I have to admit to not recalling this incident. Then again, I'm blocking a lot
of AOA, after realizing just how much $$ Marvel got from me for that little
story-that-did't-actually-happen. I'll have to go dig through my back issues.
Just off-hand, however, the line sounds pretty typical of Sabes taunting an
opponent, so it might be Mysty just copying his style.
> Maybe Creed WAS the German baron in some way. Secret mission, maybe? Of
> course, he was supposed to have died.
>
I have a hard time seeing Creed posing as nobility. Of course, I also have a
hard time seeing a lot of what happens in Marvel, so that's not particularly
meaningful.
I guess I'm sort of tired of seeing Marvel trying to reveal all these hidden
parents as other characters. I don't like Cyke's father being a space pirate.
The whole Sabes/Mysty/Graydon Creed thing still annoys me. Kurt as Mystique's
mother makes sense to me. It explains where he got his looks. Making
Sabertooth his father wouldn't add anything, and, IMHO, would take something
away from him.
Of course, that's just my opinion, which really doesn't mean much to anyone
but me.
-- Wade (who needs a few more holes to let evil spirits out of his head)
Josée Dupont
Dryden Lewis a écrit dans le message <35973AF1...@ica.net>...
>The third brothe is Gambit!!!!!!!!
>
You have a proof?
Wildchild
Lázár János
MrModok <mrm...@aol.com> írt a következő cikkben:
<199806280204...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> OT: It's interesting to note that in some circles have their own theory
of
> Kurt parentage, a theory which I happen to prefer. Claremont's original
> intention was to have Destiny be Kurt's mother and Mystique the "father".
>
YIKES!!! Pushing the limits of bi-sexualism! These two look after Rogue as
their own kid (... and would have taken GOOD care of her, if she hadn't
those powers... ), yet trying to kill a real kid! Good!
Even Creed as the father is better than this.
Rozsomak
MT
Dryden Lewis wrote:
>
> The third brothe is Gambit!!!!!!!!
>
Oh, God. Now I know what Kate the Short and drh were talking about.
*Shudder*
AGr3691541
In article <01bda381$8a279340$63e98fc2@l-z-rj>, "Lázár János"
<t4t...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> OT: It's interesting to note that in some circles have their own theory
>of
>> Kurt parentage, a theory which I happen to prefer. Claremont's original
>> intention was to have Destiny be Kurt's mother and Mystique the "father".
>>
>
>YIKES!!! Pushing the limits of bi-sexualism! These two look after Rogue as
>their own kid (... and would have taken GOOD care of her, if she hadn't
>those powers... ), yet trying to kill a real kid! Good!
Nightcrawler was abandoned to be cared by Gypsies. That is not 'trying to kill
a real kid'
>Even Creed as the father is better than this.
>
I know its bloody expensive but if possible check out UXM266. The final pages
shows Mystique crying and missing Destiny. She's clutching a photo of a
beautiful young lady in the 20's and a Nightcrawler/Mystique-like male.
(Destiny amd Mystique???)
Its a brilliant idea and the sooner Unlimited #4 is retconned to Hell the
better. There's still mileage in this story if Marvel decide to bring back
Mystique as the brilliant character she once was.
Plus Creed as nightcrawler's father is sooooo crap.
Lazy Line Painter Al
Dan McEwen
>In article <3595CC...@jps.net>, MT <NOSPA...@jps.net> writes
>>
>> Yes, and as Lorna describes below, Mystique alludes to Kurt's parentage
>>as being Sabretooth (And when she morphs into Sabretooth, she says,
>>"Come to daddy and play!" or something like that). It was in X-Calibre
>>#4, I think.
>
>It's possible, of course, that for whatever reason the AoA Kurt
>was raised by Mystique and Sabretooth. I don't really buy the idea
>of Warren throwing in something like that with the serious intention
>of following up on it - his interest in continuity questions has
>always been pretty minimal.
I also thought Mystique mentioned something about a "fur gene". While
I realize it was a joke, I would think she still meant it to mean that
Kurt's father had fur.
Dan McEwen
On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 02:57:53 -0400, Dryden Lewis <kir...@ica.net>
wrote:
>The third brothe is Gambit!!!!!!!!
>
Got any evidence?
Dan McEwen
On 29 Jun 1998 18:12:57 GMT, agr36...@aol.com (AGr3691541) wrote:
>In article <01bda381$8a279340$63e98fc2@l-z-rj>, "Lázár János"
><t4t...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>>> OT: It's interesting to note that in some circles have their own theory
>>of
>>> Kurt parentage, a theory which I happen to prefer. Claremont's original
>>> intention was to have Destiny be Kurt's mother and Mystique the "father".
>>>
>>
>>YIKES!!! Pushing the limits of bi-sexualism! These two look after Rogue as
>>their own kid (... and would have taken GOOD care of her, if she hadn't
>>those powers... ), yet trying to kill a real kid! Good!
>
>Nightcrawler was abandoned to be cared by Gypsies. That is not 'trying to kill
>a real kid'
As per his origin story, he was thrown over a waterfall. And even
what little was known of Kurt's origin prior to XMU #4 said that
Margali found him on the side of the road (next to Eric Wagner's dead
body). In one case, Mystique was hardly looking out for Kurt's
welfare. In the other, surely someone killed Eric Wagner for a
reason. Maybe because they thought he was raising a demon?
>>Even Creed as the father is better than this.
>>
>
>I know its bloody expensive but if possible check out UXM266. The final pages
>shows Mystique crying and missing Destiny. She's clutching a photo of a
>beautiful young lady in the 20's and a Nightcrawler/Mystique-like male.
>(Destiny amd Mystique???)
>Its a brilliant idea and the sooner Unlimited #4 is retconned to Hell the
>better. There's still mileage in this story if Marvel decide to bring back
>Mystique as the brilliant character she once was.
>Plus Creed as nightcrawler's father is sooooo crap.
Fact is, we're never gonna see Mystique and Destiny as the biological
parents. I don't personally find the idea of Kurt being Creed's son
to be repulsive even if I find Creed repulsive.
Lázár János
AGr3691541 <agr36...@aol.com> írt a következő cikkben:
<199806291812...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
> Nightcrawler was abandoned to be cared by Gypsies. That is not 'trying to
kill
> a real kid'
But sending the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants to get him is.
> I know its bloody expensive but if possible check out UXM266. The final
pages
> shows Mystique crying and missing Destiny. She's clutching a photo of a
> beautiful young lady in the 20's and a Nightcrawler/Mystique-like male.
> (Destiny amd Mystique???)
> Its a brilliant idea and the sooner Unlimited #4 is retconned to Hell the
> better. There's still mileage in this story if Marvel decide to bring
back
> Mystique as the brilliant character she once was.
Very touching, but please... once father, once mother???
They were very fond of each other, OK. In some twisted way they loved each
other, OK. But no kids, please!
Well, I might be old-fashioned.
> Plus Creed as nightcrawler's father is sooooo crap.
>
Yet still better than some biological mystery. Not much better, since it's
kinda strange they say Nightcrawler looks weird because he is a second
generation mutant, yet Graydon Creed was totally human. I also don't like
when mutants are portrayed as one big happy family, everyone is related to
everyone... it was cool with Darth Vader being Luke's father, but nowadays
don't writers have more imagination?
What's wrong with the German baron as Kurt's father?
Rozsomak
AGr3691541
In article <6n8plc$s...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, fe...@lsh.org (Dan McEwen)
writes:
>>In article <01bda381$8a279340$63e98fc2@l-z-rj>, "Lázár János"
>><t4t...@hotmail.com> writes:
>>
>>>> OT: It's interesting to note that in some circles have their own theory
>>>of
>>>> Kurt parentage, a theory which I happen to prefer. Claremont's original
>>>> intention was to have Destiny be Kurt's mother and Mystique the "father".
>>>>
>>>
>>>YIKES!!! Pushing the limits of bi-sexualism! These two look after Rogue as
>>>their own kid (... and would have taken GOOD care of her, if she hadn't
>>>those powers... ), yet trying to kill a real kid! Good!
>>
>>Nightcrawler was abandoned to be cared by Gypsies. That is not 'trying to
>kill
>>a real kid'
>
>As per his origin story, he was thrown over a waterfall. And even
>what little was known of Kurt's origin prior to XMU #4 said that
>Margali found him on the side of the road (next to Eric Wagner's dead
>body).
Margali I trust. Mystique I don't. Being found next to a dead body does not
mean the body was his father.
> In one case, Mystique was hardly looking out for Kurt's
>welfare. In the other, surely someone killed Eric Wagner for a
>reason. Maybe because they thought he was raising a demon?
Maybe. His looks would arouse distrust to whoever raised him. Since he lacked
Mystiques shapechanging she'd consider the little demon a bit of a liability.
>>>Even Creed as the father is better than this.
>>>
>>
>>I know its bloody expensive but if possible check out UXM266. The final
>pages
>>shows Mystique crying and missing Destiny. She's clutching a photo of a
>>beautiful young lady in the 20's and a Nightcrawler/Mystique-like male.
>>(Destiny amd Mystique???)
>>Its a brilliant idea and the sooner Unlimited #4 is retconned to Hell the
>>better. There's still mileage in this story if Marvel decide to bring back
>>Mystique as the brilliant character she once was.
>>Plus Creed as nightcrawler's father is sooooo crap.
>
>Fact is, we're never gonna see Mystique and Destiny as the biological
>parents.
Probably not. But it would be nice
> I don't personally find the idea of Kurt being Creed's son
>to be repulsive even if I find Creed repulsive.
Well it's justt rubbish. I think Sabretooth would have mentioned it at some
point in the past if he was Nightcrawlers dad. For Nightcrawler to learn this
would cut him to the core.
Lazy Line Painter Al
AGr3691541
In article <01bda39e$fd4bb780$f4e98fc2@l-z-rj>, "Lázár János"
<t4t...@hotmail.com> writes:
>AGr3691541 <agr36...@aol.com> írt a következő cikkben:
><199806291812...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>
>> Nightcrawler was abandoned to be cared by Gypsies. That is not 'trying to
>kill
>> a real kid'
>
>But sending the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants to get him is.
Hey, Mystiques a villain and often tries to show how tough she is with acts of
cruelty. But she's unable to finish off a robot double of Nightcrawler in UXM
177 (I think) - she holds back at the last moment. Sign of a family connection
I think.
>> I know its bloody expensive but if possible check out UXM266. The final
>pages
>> shows Mystique crying and missing Destiny. She's clutching a photo of a
>> beautiful young lady in the 20's and a Nightcrawler/Mystique-like male.
>> (Destiny amd Mystique???)
>> Its a brilliant idea and the sooner Unlimited #4 is retconned to Hell the
>> better. There's still mileage in this story if Marvel decide to bring
>back
>> Mystique as the brilliant character she once was.
>
>Very touching, but please... once father, once mother???
>They were very fond of each other, OK. In some twisted way they loved each
>other, OK. But no kids, please!
>Well, I might be old-fashioned.
Not as old-fashioned as Mystique and Destiny were.
Plus, Nightcrawler's old-fashioned Catholic faith would also take a bit of a
battering if he discovered his parentage.
>> Plus Creed as nightcrawler's father is sooooo crap.
>>
>Yet still better than some biological mystery. Not much better, since it's
>kinda strange they say Nightcrawler looks weird because he is a second
>generation mutant, yet Graydon Creed was totally human.
Don't get me started on the Graydon Creed storyline. Another good idea for a
storyline badly executed and badly thought through. You'd think if Graydon
hated his dad he'd change his surname? Or one possible reason he'd join the
Gamesmasters Upstarts competition? And his parents are both mutants but he's
completely human? With all this crapness Marvel tries to kill him off, and
messes that up as well!
Whoops, sorry about the rant. Thing is if Nightcrawler was the child of Destiny
and Mystique I can see why it hadn't been revealed. What possible reason would
there be to keep his Sabretooth/Mystique parentage hidden.
> I also don't like
>when mutants are portrayed as one big happy family, everyone is related to
>everyone... it was cool with Darth Vader being Luke's father, but nowadays
>don't writers have more imagination?
Come on, even if you don't like it, you have to admit it that the
Destiny/Mystique link is imaginative.
>What's wrong with the German baron as Kurt's father?
Hey, if it was a decent story I'd accept it. As long as Unlimited #4 is
retconned to oblivion I'll accept the Teletubbies as Nightcrawlers parents.
Lazy Line Painter Al
Aleph Press
AGr3691541 (agr36...@aol.com) wrote:
: Gamesmasters Upstarts competition? And his parents are both mutants but he's
: completely human? With all this crapness Marvel tries to kill him off, and
The *one* thing that makes sense about Graydon Creed is that he is human
but his parents were mutants. This is quite genetically possible, and a
dose of "realism" in a medium that usually is anything but.
If the X-Factor gene is dominant (most mutations are recessive, but some
few are dominant), it would explain how this is possible. When two humans
get together and have a kid, and that kid's a mutant, it isn't because
one of the humans had a recessive X-Factor the way normal inheritance
works. It's a mutation-- *one* parent's human allele gets mutated in the
sex cells into X-Factor. Thus, the mutant needs to have only one gene
mutated (but in a specific way) in order to become a mutant.
When a mutant has a child by a human, then, there's a 50-50 chance that
the mutant will pass down his or her X-Factor, making the kid a mutant
(and a 1 in 100,000 or whatever the mutation rate is chance that the
human parent will spontaneously contribute a mutated allele as X-Factor.)
When a mutant has a child by a mutant, there's a 50% chance of a normal
mutant, a 25% of a human, and a 25% of a person with two X-Factors. Two
X-Factors may code for being born with weird mutations or early powers
active.
Nightcrawler: possibly the child of two mutants-- born with fur and a
different physiology.
Franklin Richards: the child of two people who mutated as adults (and who
therefore, despite being human, both pass on X-Factor to their kid): has
powers as an infant.
Nathan Summers: child of two mutants (though one wasn't active): has
powers as an infant.
Rachel Summers (judging from the fact that she did not use her TK to
protect the professor when he was shot, when she was 10): did not have
powers as an infant, child of two mutants.
Luna Maximoff: child of a mutant and an Inhuman, is a normal Inhuman (I
think. She's referred to as human, but isn't she Inhuman?)
Charles Lehnsherr: child of two mutants. I didn't see him manifest any
powers, but he was definitely considered a mutant.
Graydon Creed: child of two mutants. Normal human.
if we use Charles and Rachel as examples of mutant children of two
mutants who didn't have powers in infancy, Nathan as an exmaple of a
mutant child who did, and Creed as an exmaple of a human born of two
mutants, the statistics are perfect: 50%, 25%, 25%. Of course then there
are the other characters cited as well, but my point is, Mendelian
genetics easily explains Graydon Creed's problem. And I think it *could*
have been a great idea to have a person who was jealous of mutants,
because his parents were, he expected to be one, and then he wasn't, and
*that's* why he hates them. The trouble is that, despite being the son of
the sneakiest character in the marvel universe and a father who's pretty
up on crafty himself, Graydon Creed is a one-dimensional idiot. Good
idea, terrible, terrible execution.
--
Be good, servile little citizen-employee, and pay your taxes so the rich
don't have to.
--Zepp Weasel
Alara Rogers, Aleph Press
al...@netcom.com
All Aleph Press stories are at http://www.mindspring.com/~alara/ajer.
MT
Of course, this has to take one thing for granted: you're assuming
Creed *knows* he's the father. He seemed like a "Do 'em and run" type to
me, and the fact that he fathered Nightcrawler might be unknown to him.
After all, if he lied to Logan about his parentage so that he could run
away/hurt him, he would do the same thing to Kurt.
Tripp Gwyn
Originally it was going to be Gambit.
Then it was to be the LONG forgotten character X-Treme, who I happened to
like.
But I think this story will be lost and forgotten unless Seagle and Kelly are
extremely bored.
Tripp Gwyn
>Gess what, I might know who the third Summer brother is. Nightcrawler.
>Perhaps Mystique fooled old Corsair into thinking she was his wife. Why not?
>
> Wildchild
>
>
MT
Aleph Press wrote:
>
> Legion (OBri...@iol.ie) wrote:
>
> : >Charles Lehnsherr: child of two mutants. I didn't see him manifest
> : In AOA X-man,He was able to see Nate on the astral plane.
>
> Could have been a function of Nate's powers rather than Charlie's.
> After all, Charles Xavier could make himself astrally visible to
> anyone he wanted to, and Nate's a very powerful psi.
*Sigh* Of course, everybody's ignoring the fact that it was *Magneto*
who saw Nate in X-Man #1. And for the record, Forge specifically said no
one could see them, because they were on the astral plane. Nate wasn't
projecting a mental image of himself. My guess is, curious as he was, he
tried to connect to Magneto, or, like Alara said, he's really powerful
and was careless enough to be visible.
Legion
Aleph Press
Legion (OBri...@iol.ie) wrote:
: >Charles Lehnsherr: child of two mutants. I didn't see him manifest any
: >powers, but he was definitely considered a mutant.
: In AOA X-man,He was able to see Nate on the astral plane.
Could have been a function of Nate's powers rather than Charlie's. After
all, Charles Xavier could make himself astrally visible to anyone he
wanted to, and Nate's a very powerful psi.
--
Dan McEwen
On 29 Jun 1998 21:43:45 GMT, agr36...@aol.com (AGr3691541) wrote:
>In article <6n8plc$s...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, fe...@lsh.org (Dan McEwen)
>writes:
>
>>As per his origin story, he was thrown over a waterfall. And even
>>what little was known of Kurt's origin prior to XMU #4 said that
>>Margali found him on the side of the road (next to Eric Wagner's dead
>>body).
>
>Margali I trust. Mystique I don't. Being found next to a dead body does not
>mean the body was his father.
Margali was the one who said that Eric Wagner (the dead person) was
Kurt's father. So taking the step to say that Margali knew Eric well
enough to identify him we might also make the assumption that she knew
he had a "demon baby".
>> I don't personally find the idea of Kurt being Creed's son
>>to be repulsive even if I find Creed repulsive.
>
>Well it's justt rubbish. I think Sabretooth would have mentioned it at some
>point in the past if he was Nightcrawlers dad. For Nightcrawler to learn this
>would cut him to the core.
Not if he didn't know. Mystique had to have hated Creed by the time
Kurt was born. What would she gain by telling him?
Dan McEwen
On 29 Jun 1998 20:47:04 GMT, "Lázár János" <t4t...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>AGr3691541 <agr36...@aol.com> írt a következő cikkben:
><199806291812...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>
>> Nightcrawler was abandoned to be cared by Gypsies. That is not 'trying to
>kill
>> a real kid'
>
>But sending the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants to get him is.
Huh? Sure the X-Men fought the BoEM, but it certainly wasn't done to
kill Kurt. In fact, when Mystique was fighting X-Men simulations she
was able to kill Rogue (who she loved), but not Kurt. That said, I
sincerely doubt Kurt's welfare took up much time in her thoughts.
>
>> I know its bloody expensive but if possible check out UXM266. The final
>pages
>> shows Mystique crying and missing Destiny. She's clutching a photo of a
>> beautiful young lady in the 20's and a Nightcrawler/Mystique-like male.
>> (Destiny amd Mystique???)
>> Its a brilliant idea and the sooner Unlimited #4 is retconned to Hell the
>> better. There's still mileage in this story if Marvel decide to bring
>back
>> Mystique as the brilliant character she once was.
>
>Very touching, but please... once father, once mother???
>They were very fond of each other, OK. In some twisted way they loved each
>other, OK. But no kids, please!
>Well, I might be old-fashioned.
Mystique could be a man. The assumption here was that she could
*become* a man in every way. So she could father a child. I like the
idea myself, but don't ever expect to see it in print. I would be
satisfied with Creed (but not a nameless German count).
>> Plus Creed as nightcrawler's father is sooooo crap.
>>
>Yet still better than some biological mystery. Not much better, since it's
>kinda strange they say Nightcrawler looks weird because he is a second
>generation mutant, yet Graydon Creed was totally human. I also don't like
>when mutants are portrayed as one big happy family, everyone is related to
>everyone... it was cool with Darth Vader being Luke's father, but nowadays
>don't writers have more imagination?
>What's wrong with the German baron as Kurt's father?
It sucks. I contradicts Margali's story from a time before Ellis
twisted her. IMO, if Eric Wagner wasn't Kurt's father, I can't think
of a single reason why he would have had Kurt. Remember, Margali
found Kurt next to Eric's dead body. No way, no how would a random
villager rescue Kurt. Mystique's story just doesn't add up.
Legion
>: >Charles Lehnsherr: child of two mutants. I didn't see him manifest any
>: >powers, but he was definitely considered a mutant.
>: In AOA X-man,He was able to see Nate on the astral plane.
>
>
>Could have been a function of Nate's powers rather than Charlie's. After
>all, Charles Xavier could make himself astrally visible to anyone he
>wanted to, and Nate's a very powerful psi.
>
Could have been but doubtful.Why would Nate choose to apear to Charles
instead of Erik?And at that stage Nate wasn't at the control level that
Xavier had/has.My guess is that ickle Charles was a mutant and that if he
wasn't,maybe Nate inadvertanly appeared to only him.
Legion
>> : >any powers, but he was definitely considered a mutant.
>> :
>> : In AOA X-man,He was able to see Nate on the astral plane.
>>
>> Could have been a function of Nate's powers rather than Charlie's.
>> After all, Charles Xavier could make himself astrally visible to
>> anyone he wanted to, and Nate's a very powerful psi.
>
>who saw Nate in X-Man #1. And for the record, Forge specifically said no
>one could see them, because they were on the astral plane. Nate wasn't
>projecting a mental image of himself. My guess is, curious as he was, he
>tried to connect to Magneto, or, like Alara said, he's really powerful
>and was careless enough to be visible.
>
in X-man #1,Nate simply viewed what was happening from the astral plane
unknownst to Erik.Then in X-man #3 Nate projects himself again to
Westchester and views Erik and son.The son sees him and Erik didnt.
AGr3691541
>AGr3691541 (agr36...@aol.com) wrote:
>: Gamesmasters Upstarts competition? And his parents are both mutants but
>he's
>: completely human? With all this crapness Marvel tries to kill him off, and
>
>The *one* thing that makes sense about Graydon Creed is that he is human
>but his parents were mutants. This is quite genetically possible, and a
>dose of "realism" in a medium that usually is anything but.
>
>If the X-Factor gene is dominant (most mutations are recessive, but some
>few are dominant), it would explain how this is possible. When two humans
>get together and have a kid, and that kid's a mutant, it isn't because
>one of the humans had a recessive X-Factor the way normal inheritance
>works. It's a mutation-- *one* parent's human allele gets mutated in the
>sex cells into X-Factor. Thus, the mutant needs to have only one gene
>mutated (but in a specific way) in order to become a mutant.
>
>When a mutant has a child by a human, then, there's a 50-50 chance that
>the mutant will pass down his or her X-Factor, making the kid a mutant
>(and a 1 in 100,000 or whatever the mutation rate is chance that the
>human parent will spontaneously contribute a mutated allele as X-Factor.)
This is supposing that mutation is an on-off gene thing, like blue eyes or
gender. But these variations occur within stable species. The whole X-thing is
a mutation in the DNA which would affect more than just one chromosone it
affects everything about them, including not just what genes they can pass on,
but how they do it (wierd mutant childbirth and sex scenarios, that sort of
thing.
Therefore the chance of two mutants being able to produce children that
'revert' to a form they have mutated from, means a double mutation of such
mind-boggling odds it staggers belief, IMO
That said, this is the Marvel Universe, and I canaccept ridiculous odds if it
makes a good storyline (From The Ashes TPB). Sadly Graydon Creed was just crap.
Lazy Line Painter Al
Oh God, Argentina are going to thrash us....
Aleph Press
AGr3691541 (agr36...@aol.com) wrote:
: This is supposing that mutation is an on-off gene thing, like blue eyes or
: gender. But these variations occur within stable species. The whole X-thing is
: a mutation in the DNA which would affect more than just one chromosone it
: affects everything about them, including not just what genes they can pass on,
: but how they do it (wierd mutant childbirth and sex scenarios, that sort of
: thing.
Actually, the way I perceive it, it *is* one gene. Otherwise the results
would not be as consistent (almost all mutants produce a distinct brain
signature visible to Cerebro and other mutant detectors.) All humans have
a polygenetic (and proabbly polychromosomal) complex which codes for
latent power. The power must be activated by a gene, however. X-Factor is
a mutation of a single allele which, in humans, does nothing. When it
mutates to X-Factor, it activates the powers complex.
: Therefore the chance of two mutants being able to produce children that
: 'revert' to a form they have mutated from, means a double mutation of such
: mind-boggling odds it staggers belief, IMO
Not as mind-boggling as the notion that all this random mutation is
creating a consistent new species. :-)
: That said, this is the Marvel Universe, and I canaccept ridiculous odds if it
: makes a good storyline (From The Ashes TPB). Sadly Graydon Creed was just crap.
He was. He could have been good (as an idea), but from the moment he
actually appeared he was crap. I'd like to see the idea done right, though.
MT
Legion wrote:
>
> We're talking about Charles Lensharr,Magneto's AOA kid.Erik never saw
> Nate in X-man #1,Nate simply viewed what was happening from the astral
> plane unknownst to Erik.Then in X-man #3 Nate projects himself again
> to Westchester and views Erik and son.The son sees him and Erik didnt.
>
Well, thanks for the civil correction to my less-than-polite addition
to this thread. However, you are wrong; in X-Man #1, Magneto was arguing
with Bishop, and DID see Nate talking to Forge in the mirror.
MT
Legion wrote:
>
> >: >Charles Lehnsherr: child of two mutants. I didn't see him manifest
> >: >any powers, but he was definitely considered a mutant. In AOA
> >: >X-man,He was able to see Nate on the astral plane.
> >
> >Could have been a function of Nate's powers rather than Charlie's.
> >After all, Charles Xavier could make himself astrally visible to
> >anyone he wanted to, and Nate's a very powerful psi.
>
> instead of Erik?And at that stage Nate wasn't at the control level
> that Xavier had/has.
Well, seeing as how Forge was positive that he and Nate were invisible
to the naked eye when they conversed on the astral plane, it was
probably a side effect of Nate's power. He threw so much around that the
people around him managed to get a few glimpses when the inadvertently
connected to him.
> My guess is that ickle Charles was a mutant and that if he
> wasn't,maybe Nate inadvertanly appeared to only him.
I don't think that Charles would exhibit his powers at such an early
age. And if he were a mutant, he'd probably have some kind of power that
resembles his parents, instead of someone who was his father's late best
friend (And his namesake). Also, Magneto saw Nate and Forge on the
astral plane, so it seems that it wasn't anything special on Charles'
behalf. Instead, the only common person in both viewings was Nate;
therefore, it's logical to assume that his power, running unchecked,
made him visible once in a while.
By the way, what kind of a word is "ickle?"
Legion
By the way, what kind of a word is "ickle?"
>
Damn T.V its ruined my ability to think and ummmm....I'm off to watch Just
Cause
David R. Henry
MT writes:
> Oh, God. Now I know what Kate the Short and drh were talking about.
>
> *Shudder*
For our next trick, a man with three buttocks.
"My brain hurts!"
--
dhe...@plains.nodak.edu * Lion Clan Nezumi * Rogue Fan Club * Fallen Writer
Shouldn't talk so loud, shouldn't walk so proud, just a face in the crowd..
What was the question? --Kate Bush /// All you of Earth are IDIOTS! --P9fOS
Eric Sturgeon
In article <6nc9tn$g...@plains.NoDak.edu>,
David R. Henry <dhe...@plains.NoDak.edu> wrote:
>For our next trick, a man with three buttocks.
>
>"My brain hurts!"
>
Stirge
Andyg3129
MT <NOSPA...@jps.net> writes:
>Dryden Lewis wrote:
>>
>> The third brothe is Gambit!!!!!!!!
>>
>
>
> *Shudder*
NO YOUR WRONG!!!11!!!1!
GAMBUT'S COOL COS HE'S GOT CLAWS AND STUFF!!!1!!1
Andy, revealing his true colours....
Jeph
"Open the door, *then* come in!"
-Jeph!
this thread has deviated, methinks...
--
*"Cry 'hammock!', and let sleep the dogs of war!"
*"Anyone remotely interesting is mad."
*"Of course, the trick in killing someone with an apricot is
really in the wrist. The drawback is, it kills instantly, and
there's no time to gather information. So for situations like
that, well, I use a muffin."
-Autolycus (Xena: Warrior Princess)
David R. Henry
Andyg3129 writes:
>>> The third brothe is Gambit!!!!!!!!
>> Oh, God. Now I know what Kate the Short and drh were talking about.
>>
>> *Shudder*
>
>NO YOUR WRONG!!!11!!!1!
>GAMBUT'S COOL COS HE'S GOT CLAWS AND STUFF!!!1!!1
He _would_ be cool, if his claws hadn't been given to him in that
silly "Weapon Why?" limited series. I mean, c'mon; the scientists
fix him up to an intergalactic cusinart and they don't expect the
nanites in there to bond with Remy? Get real. And I still think we
have to discount it because it showed Candra actually using the
Guilds for a purpose.
--
dhe...@plains.nodak.edu * Lion Clan Nezumi * Rogue Fan Club * Fallen Writer
Just Five Words for Jerry Bruckheimer: Why machineguns on NASA spacecraft?
Andyg3129
writes:
>>The third brothe is Gambit!!!!!!!!
>>
>Got any evidence?
>
Yep. I'm the fourth brother, and Remy, Scott and Alex
all send me cards each year :-)
Andy Summers.
"I'm on the tree!"
Andyg3129
Henry) writes:
>>NO YOUR WRONG!!!11!!!1!
>>GAMBUT'S COOL COS HE'S GOT CLAWS AND STUFF!!!1!!1
>
>He _would_ be cool, if his claws hadn't been given to him in that
>silly "Weapon Why?" limited series. I mean, c'mon; the scientists
>fix him up to an intergalactic cusinart and they don't expect the
>nanites in there to bond with Remy? Get real. And I still think we
>have to discount it because it showed Candra actually using the
>Guilds for a purpose.
>
You know, the sad thing is, there's probably
a couple of kids who've gone to the store and
asked for this......
Andy.
MT
So? They said they'd order it ASAP. What's the problem?
Lázár János
<199807141848...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> In article <6n8pe1$s...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, fe...@lsh.org (Dan
McEwen)
> writes:
>
> >>The third brothe is Gambit!!!!!!!!
> >>
> >Got any evidence?
> >
>
> Yep. I'm the fourth brother, and Remy, Scott and Alex
> all send me cards each year :-)
I hope you're careful with the card from Gambit... it might explode...
Take a word of advice, ask him to e-mail his best wishes instead.
Rozsomak
ALeguia
Soleil Lapierre
> The third brother is Adam, he is half s'hiar and half homan. Thank you!
^^^^^^^^^^
Did anyone else parse that as "half woman"? :)
--
/* Soleil "Ra" Lapierre, Co-Maintainer of the Magik Timeline:
* http://www.cuug.ab.ca/~lapierrs/comics/
*
* Captain Janeway is a criminal.
*/
Daniel Matias
ALeguia <ale...@aol.com> escreveu no artigo
<199807310524...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> The third brother is Adam, he is half s'hiar and half homan.
Thank you!
>
How do you know? Is it your opinion or has that been stated in a X-Book?
Christopher Sunday
third bro. after all Sinister knows this to be true! and Adam hasen't
been on the planet that long!
James
brother. Why don't you go to the X-Board on the X-Fan Hompage for my
explanation. It should put most doubt to rest that Adam X IS the third
summers brother.
http://surf.to/houseofcards
The best Gambit dedicated webpage on the net!
Christopher Sunday <CLS1...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<22111-35...@newsd-174.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
FabNic
>brother.
Just to throw a real fun monkey wrench into the works, since I created Adam X
to begin with, how about if I said you were all RIGHT and you were all WRONG?
He was INTENDED to be something when first created and introduced, so those of
you who think he IS that something would be accurate, BUT... it was NEVER shown
INPRINT one way or the other, so those of you who DON'T think he is that
something would be accurate also.
See how easy it is to separate speculation from the printed page? :-)
--fabian (I'm back and I'm not sure if I'm happy or just plain crazy)
Chandre Darkstorm
Fabian!! :)
It's just like the Mystique/Destiny lesbian thing. It was never in
print that they were, but some people just regard them that way since
that is what Chris Claremont intended.
Chandre.
Marty Blase
>
> > Adam X IS the third Summers
> >brother.
>
> Just to throw a real fun monkey wrench into the works, since I created Adam X
> to begin with, how about if I said you were all RIGHT and you were all WRONG?
> He was INTENDED to be something when first created and introduced, so those of
> you who think he IS that something would be accurate, BUT... it was NEVER shown
> INPRINT one way or the other, so those of you who DON'T think he is that
> something would be accurate also.
> See how easy it is to separate speculation from the printed page? :-)
> --fabian (I'm back and I'm not sure if I'm happy or just plain crazy)
Dagnabbit, Fabian. If you're going to keep spoiling all of our fun like
this, we're just not going to listen to you anymore. :-)
- Blaze: speculative theories are what keep us alive, y'know?