JLU written by Warren Ellis (Dark Heart spoilers)
Ken from Chicago
Altho once again, Supes and Supergirl opt for punching instead of
long-ranged attacks--altho they eventually wised up.
Hey, was anyone else reminded of Paul Atreides riding one of the spice worms
from DUNE? Only thing missing was the grappling poles.
-- Ken from Chicago
P.S. "Ray, I need to use both hands." She could have put him on her belt?
P.P.S. "Why would you need a weapon against the Justice League?"
Richmond
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:0fydnQWPCpf...@comcast.com...
> Nice ep--and it didn't take forever for the plot to be advanced.
>
half-expecting a caption naming the Satellite and saying it was travelling
the Bleed.
> Altho once again, Supes and Supergirl opt for punching instead of
> long-ranged attacks--altho they eventually wised up.
>
> Hey, was anyone else reminded of Paul Atreides riding one of the spice
> worms
> from DUNE? Only thing missing was the grappling poles.
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
>
> P.S. "Ray, I need to use both hands." She could have put him on her belt?
>
> P.P.S. "Why would you need a weapon against the Justice League?"
>
>
"Batman to all points. I could use some air support. Since I can't fly.
At all."
Aaron Thall
If time was of the essence, why send Superman when Dr. Fate, who was
present, can TELEPORT?
Joe Bergeron
<cyb...@wowway.com> wrote:
> If time was of the essence, why send Superman when Dr. Fate, who was
> present, can TELEPORT?
If it comes to that, GL could have scooped up the whole top of the mesa
and pitched it into the sun, instead of just shooting zap beams like
100 other characters who were on the scene.
--
Joe Bergeron
Rob Wiacek
"Aaron Thall" <cyb...@wowway.com> wrote in message
news:uemdnYXTj6E...@wideopenwest.com...
Or if a teleporter isn't present and speed is of the essence, oh why not
the Flash. You know the guy who's power is to be fast....
Hacksaw
>
> Altho once again, Supes and Supergirl opt for punching instead of
> long-ranged attacks--altho they eventually wised up.
I enjoyed it and all, but it was kinda silly.
They justify calling in Ray by having him state something like "You can't
just smash the heart. If even a tiny piece survives it'll rebuild." and then
the first thing that Ray tries is to smash it. Heck, smashing it is
essentially what happened to it anyhow.
If they'd been thinking, Superman would have used his heat vision directly
on the heart while still out at a good distance. He could have slagged the
whole thing with a glance. It was him spotting it that led them to call Ray
in in the first place.
Some of the one-liners were great though. I bet Ollie would have killed to
be carried like that by Wonder Woman.
--- Hacksaw
Dwayne McDuffie
> In article <uemdnYXTj6E...@wideopenwest.com>, Aaron Thall
> <cyb...@wowway.com> wrote:
>
>> If time was of the essence, why send Superman when Dr. Fate, who was
>> present, can TELEPORT?
>
> If it comes to that, GL could have scooped up the whole top of the mesa
> and pitched it into the sun, instead of just shooting zap beams like
> 100 other characters who were on the scene.
Our version of Green Lantern can't, Power Rings are no where near as
mighty as they are in the DCU. The Darkheart was simply too big and
heavy. Although it does suggest a really interesting spin-off, where
every week GL throws whoever is attacking into the sun.
--
Dwayne McDuffie
www..dwaynemcduffie..com
Brian Doyle
> If time was of the essence, why send Superman when Dr. Fate, who was
> present, can TELEPORT?
Perhaps teleportation spells take time to prepare in advance and he hadn't
the chance to? (The reason they gave for the White Witch in LSH not
telporting much, though she could if she ha da few hours to prepare)
Brian Doyle
So THAT'S why they called Alan Scott's power source "The Starheart"... :)
Ken from Chicago
"Dwayne McDuffie" <dwa...@dwaynemcduffie.com> wrote in message
news:2004121202464416807%dwayne@dwaynemcduffiecom...
Is it too late to remind DC Comics about how power Green Lantern rings are
un the DCU so GL could throw Doomsday into the Sun?
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
Simple answer: What if the bugs did something unexpected? Doc Fate is a
major gun to take out of the picture merely to do Transport--even if it is
for only a few seconds. Much of Superman's power was replicated by the
others.
-- Ken from Chicago
Sean Walsh
P.P.P.S. "I'm going to lie here for a while, Katie. Because I'm old. I
can do that."
--
Sean
Ken from Chicago
"Sean Walsh" <mad...@comicboards.com> wrote in message
news:1102860861.2...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Yes, loved that interaction tween Atom and Katie.
Twould be a shame if IC 6 was right.
-- Ken from Chicago
Sean Walsh
After that episode I thought the same thing: "Man, I really hope is
*isn't* Ray..."
--
Sean
Sean Walsh
>
> P.S. "Ray, I need to use both hands." She could have put him on her
belt?
I fully expected him to say something about that when it was time for
him to leave. Like a "hommina, hommina, hommina" or "Hey, gimme a
minute, I'm lost!"
--
Sean
Ken from Chicago
Knowing Ellis' work, Atom probably did--but TPTB on the show said to Ellis,
in effect, look we've already given you slack. Don't push it.
-- Ken from Chicago
Carmen Williams
"Sean Walsh" <mad...@comicboards.com> wrote in message
news:1102866263.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
I'm still lost in my amazement that there were *no wisecracks at all* about
that. I didn't realize that much restraint *existed*.
Carmen W.
Ken from Chicago
"Carmen Williams" <CARM...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hvCdndNNV6m...@comcast.com...
TPTB were on edge as it was. Cartoon. Kids. Wardrobe malfunction. Warren
probably wrote something TPTB nixed as simply going too far.
-- Ken from Chicago
Dswynne
>that. I didn't realize that much restraint *existed*.
>
>Carmen W.
1) It's called "Being a professional", and, two,
2) Atom was more excited by the alien machine than anything else!
-De
"In the end, there can be only one, and it may as well be me!"-Kenny (from
Highlander: The Series)
WildCard WG
<kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Nice ep--and it didn't take forever for the plot to be advanced.
What plot?? That was just an episode-long fight scene after fight
scene. I saw no JL-worthy plot at all. Look at all the heroes they
had on the scene! That bot should have been toast so many times over
almost instantly once the team got there.
Of course, if fighting technology-absorbing bots, you obviously send
in Steel (most hightly-advance battlesuit in existance), STRIPE
(mini-mecha), and Red Tornado (a self-aware android). And of course,
send in the big guns like Vigilante (motor-cycle gun slinger),
Crimsome Avenger (gun slinger without any advance movement
capability), and Shining Knight (he may have a flying horse but his
only weapon is a sword, not much range there at all).
Batman made sense being on-scene, dispite his gadgets, as he operated
mostly as field general.
Now, only one of the other plot holes: you need to get the Atom *fast*
and you don't send the Flash to get him? You send Superman, a Big Gun
instead? What was Batman thinking?!
Then there is the satellite's wave motion gun. I have to agree with
the general, once the JLU revealed they had that kind of weapon they
were keeping secret, I would be PISSED as well, and would want to have
a way to take it out just in case some super-villian takes over the
satellite. Like during the one hour time when the satellite is
completely dead in the water while it is rebuilding it's power. I
sure hope that no orbital adjustments are needed in that time to keep
the satellite from entering Earth's atmosphere. At least in Star
Blazers the ship was completely powerless for only one minute before
it could manuever again, not a full hour.
And what good does the trench do when you already know the bots can
travel both through the ground and the air?
Finally, Atom got lucky that all the bots were being controlled by the
mothership and were not independant. I was surprised taking out the
mothership did anything besides stop the manufacturing of new bots.
And even then, we saw pieces of broken bots reform into complete bots
each. So did I miss something where it was revealed that all the bots
were receiving some kind of control signal from the mothership? If
so, why didn't the JLU try to block that signal (call in Airwave
perhaps)?
Heck, if those bots had no organic componants in them, then just call
in Firestorm for one mega-transformation. Or what about the heavy
duty magic-users Dr. Fate and Zatanna? I'll bet the bots were ready
for technological attacks but not magical ones.
Did I like this episode? NO!! Too many heroes, not enough brains.
This should have been a lot more one-sided than it really was.
WildCardWG
Stephen Bayer
"Joe Bergeron" <jaber...@earthlink.nettled> wrote in message
news:121220040143470018%jaber...@earthlink.nettled...
Yes, why not throw into the Sun a rapidly replicating alien virus, the
extent of whose survival powers you do not know, but which is known to have
entirely decimated planets and other celestial bodies?
I guess that would be a quicker way of ensuring the demise of the human
race.
-Stephen
Marcovaldo
news:1102889687.04a81987bd663d32e1db2dc9d66d26cf@teranews...
> On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 20:05:06 -0600, "Ken from Chicago"
> <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Nice ep--and it didn't take forever for the plot to be advanced.
>
> What plot?? That was just an episode-long fight scene after fight
> scene. I saw no JL-worthy plot at all. Look at all the heroes they
> had on the scene! That bot should have been toast so many times over
> almost instantly once the team got there.
Agreed. It was contrived to give the Atom his moment in the sun, but to make
that happen, the others had to conveniently forget their abilities. The
Lantern should have been able to scoop up all the bots and hold them in the
air harmlessly while the other big guns dissected the mother ship.
> Now, only one of the other plot holes: you need to get the Atom *fast*
> and you don't send the Flash to get him? You send Superman, a Big Gun
> instead? What was Batman thinking?!
Was the Flash even there? I don't remember seeing him. But more to the
point, given the "omega" level of the emergency, why was every one *but* the
Atom there? In fact, he was unaware of the emergency. Not a very good team
member, ignoring his pager ; ).
> Did I like this episode? NO!! Too many heroes, not enough brains.
> This should have been a lot more one-sided than it really was.
It was somewhat entertaining in a mildless sort of way, but I agree it
doesn't stand up to any analysis.
Justin Garrett Blum
"WildCard WG" <wildc...@dodgeit.com> wrote in message
news:1102889687.04a81987bd663d32e1db2dc9d66d26cf@teranews...
> send in the big guns like Vigilante (motor-cycle gun slinger),
> Crimsome Avenger (gun slinger without any advance movement
> capability), and Shining Knight (he may have a flying horse but his
> only weapon is a sword, not much range there at all).
Don't forget the Blue Devil: http://bluedevil.uatu.net ;)
But carrying on past that shameless plug...
>
> Finally, Atom got lucky that all the bots were being controlled by the
> mothership and were not independant. I was surprised taking out the
> mothership did anything besides stop the manufacturing of new bots.
I was left confounded by this as well. I found that to be a glaring hole in
the logic of the entire episode. It had been stated on a number of
occassions that each child of the weapon was, in essence, an exact duplicate
of the parent. Palmer even said that the weapon/parent probably copied its
entire history into each child unit. The episode never provided any
indication that they were all part of a larger whole and it provided every
indication that they were all largely independent entities.
I enjoyed a lot of the dialogue, and some of the characterization was good,
but the plot was a mess.
Regards,
Justin
http://www.uatu.net
Ken from Chicago
"Stephen Bayer" <sba...@bigplanet.com> wrote in message
news:1102893240.444710@boromir...
But it would make for a nice "Final Night" multi-episode season finale of
JLU as they discover for some reason the Sun burning out.
-- Ken from Chicago
Tom Hutson
Best,
Tom, who may be getting older, but refuses to grow up
DAMONO
silhouette) helping in the destruction of those bug creatures? He was in the
background while Superman and the Atom were talking.
Damon O
Dsikula
>From: dam...@aol.com (DAMONO)
>Date: 12/12/2004 7:42 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <20041212224247...@mb-m07.aol.com>
>
> Did anyone notice a character that looked remarkably like Wolverine (in
>silhouette) helping in the destruction of those bug creatures? He was in the
>background while Superman and the Atom were talking.
Wasn't that Wildcat?
--Dave Sikula
-------------------------
"Those who like this sort of thing will find this is the sort of thing they
like." --Abraham Lincoln
The Babaloughesian
> news:121220040143470018%jaber...@earthlink.nettled...
> > In article <uemdnYXTj6E...@wideopenwest.com>, Aaron Thall
> > <cyb...@wowway.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If time was of the essence, why send Superman when Dr. Fate, who was
> >> present, can TELEPORT?
> >
> > If it comes to that, GL could have scooped up the whole top of the mesa
> > and pitched it into the sun, instead of just shooting zap beams like
> > 100 other characters who were on the scene.
> >
> > --
>
> Yes, why not throw into the Sun a rapidly replicating alien virus, the
> extent of whose survival powers you do not know,
They learned things about it from fighting it. They know it can be damaged
by mere heat vision and other energy powers and even things like bullets and
swords and Huntress' fists, and that it doesn't adapt better defenses to
neutralize those things that can damage it. Instead, it relies solely upon
strength of numbers. They know that it is slow moving and that its pieces
regenerate slowly as well. They know that it relies upon atoms. From all
of this they can deduce to a high enough degree of certainty that if thrown
into the sun, it will be destroyed fast enough that it will not be able to
recover. The main challenge would be making sure a few drones don't get
left behind on Earth.
> but which is known to have
> entirely decimated planets and other celestial bodies?
Just planets. Inhabited ones.
The Babaloughesian
"Rob Wiacek" <rwi...@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:QVSud.93$Qw7...@fe07.lga...
Well, I'm guessing Flash is no longer the fastest man alive.
Batman: "Superman, you'll get there fastest."
The Babaloughesian
"Hacksaw" <nos...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:VlVud.1486$o17...@fe03.lga...
>
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:0fydnQWPCpf...@comcast.com...
> > Nice ep--and it didn't take forever for the plot to be advanced.
> >
> > Altho once again, Supes and Supergirl opt for punching instead of
> > long-ranged attacks--altho they eventually wised up.
>
> I enjoyed it and all, but it was kinda silly.
Though I'd say it's a step up from the "extremely, embarassingly silly" of
other episodes.
> They justify calling in Ray by having him state something like "You can't
> just smash the heart. If even a tiny piece survives it'll rebuild." and
then
> the first thing that Ray tries is to smash it. Heck, smashing it is
> essentially what happened to it anyhow.
Yes. Hell, even the fact of him ultimately trying to smash it could've been
somewhat less silly if only they didn't have him actually go and try to
punch the thing with his own damn fist. What I was hoping he would do is
trick one of those tentacles into smashing the thing, since, while they were
chasing him, they seemed to be uncoordinated enough to smash holes in the
floor.
> If they'd been thinking,
Every single episode of JLU ever written would be about 3 minutes long.
This series depends upon its characters' selective amnesia and stupidity.
Joe Bergeron
<sba...@bigplanet.com> wrote:
> Yes, why not throw into the Sun a rapidly replicating alien virus, the
> extent of whose survival powers you do not know, but which is known to have
> entirely decimated planets and other celestial bodies?
>
> I guess that would be a quicker way of ensuring the demise of the human
> race.
I should have remembered that in superhero stories it is often possible
for matter to somehow avoid being dispersed into random ions by the
temperatures of the sun.
--
Joe Bergeron
Ken from Chicago
"The Babaloughesian" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:324mraF...@individual.net...
Flash is the fastest RUNNER alive but there were lots of hills and valleys
he'd have to cross while Superman can travel as the crow flies straight to
the target.
-- Ken from Chicago
The Babaloughesian
"Joe Bergeron" <jaber...@earthlink.nettled> wrote in message
Even while in the same stories, it can't avoid the same being done to it by
heat vision, which should be much cooler. Superhero stories operate under
fucked up logic.
arnold kim
"WildCard WG" <wildc...@dodgeit.com> wrote in message
news:1102889687.04a81987bd663d32e1db2dc9d66d26cf@teranews...
> Now, only one of the other plot holes: you need to get the Atom *fast*
> and you don't send the Flash to get him? You send Superman, a Big Gun
> instead? What was Batman thinking?!
Probably that Superman can fly faster than Flash can run.
Arnold Kim
iron...@earthlink.net
and he wasn't even in the background in this ep!
Has it been revealed anywhere why Flash has been absent? At first, I
thought the writers just didn't bother to put him in the season's first
episodes. Now that about a dozen episodes are through and still no
Flash, I'm wondering if maybe his voice actor wasn't available.
Otherwise, BIG, DUMB oversight.
Ken from Chicago
<iron...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1102993308.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
What was FLASH spose to do?
-- Ken from Chicago
P.S. Flash appeared when the Android landed at the barbershop going after
Lex.
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Has it been revealed anywhere why Flash has been absent?
Dwayne McDuffie has a Delphi forum where he's talked about how using
Flash to the extent of his powers would mean two-minute-long cartoon
episodes. I've gotten the impression that they don't use him because
he's too powerful.
--
Johanna Draper Carlson
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Blogging at http://www.comicsworthreading.com/blog/cwr.html
Ken from Chicago
"Johanna Draper Carlson" <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote in
message news:johannaNOSPAM-5AD...@individual.net...
Barry Allen has always been underutilized. Used to his full potential,
there's not a single nonmagical or nontelepathic foe that should even be a
challenge for him--to say nothing of Captain Boomerang.
Wally West getting stabbed by a sword is just plain assinine. The guy has
literally felt a BULLET hitting in and REFLEXIVELY switched into hyperspeed
before the bullet pierced his skin.
Again, writers tend to forget speedsters have a long-range attack built in:
HAND-MADE TORNADOES. And forget about giving them a projective, they'd be
death incarnate.
Do the math: Projectile x Mach 1000 velocity = Death.
-- Ken from Chicago
Michael S. Schiffer
>...
> Barry Allen has always been underutilized. Used to his full
> potential, there's not a single nonmagical or nontelepathic foe
> that should even be a challenge for him--to say nothing of
> Captain Boomerang.
That may depend on whether Captain Boomerang is being used to his
full potential-- we are, after all, talking about someone who could
deploy autonomous time and dimension-travelling boomerangs back in
the Silver Age. It may be a dopey motif, but the capabilities he
displayed weren't insignificant. (And there's really no more need
for him to be in the same city as his capers than there is for
Superman to get into fistfights instead of standing off and using his
ranged powers.)
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS
msch...@condor.depaul.edu
Mike Milley
"Johanna Draper Carlson" <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote in
message news:johannaNOSPAM-5AD...@individual.net...
>
>> Has it been revealed anywhere why Flash has been absent?
>
> Dwayne McDuffie has a Delphi forum where he's talked about how using
> Flash to the extent of his powers would mean two-minute-long cartoon
> episodes. I've gotten the impression that they don't use him because
> he's too powerful.
Weird...that didn't stop them in the first two seasons...
:o
TonyJ1675
>> Dwayne McDuffie has a Delphi forum where he's talked about how using
>> Flash to the extent of his powers would mean two-minute-long cartoon
>> episodes. I've gotten the impression that they don't use him because
>> he's too powerful.
>
>
>
>Weird...that didn't stop them in the first two seasons...
>:o
--true. Heck, I never felt Wally was "too powerful" on JLU. He runs fast, but
there's no indication of how fast. I don't recall him even breaking the sound
barrier on the cartoon.
Tony
John L Fjellstad
> --true. Heck, I never felt Wally was "too powerful" on JLU. He runs
> fast, but there's no indication of how fast. I don't recall him even
> breaking the sound barrier on the cartoon.
Heck, he couldn't even catch up to a truck.
--
John L. Fjellstad
web: http://www.fjellstad.org/ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
Johanna Draper Carlson
> "Johanna Draper Carlson" <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote
> > he's too powerful.
>
> Weird...that didn't stop them in the first two seasons...
(shrug) I dunno. I've only watched some of this season, because it's the
only time it sounded interesting to me.
iron...@earthlink.net
background), not The Return.
lord zog
>
> "Mike Milley" <woofh...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> > "Johanna Draper Carlson" <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote
> > > iron...@earthlink.net wrote:
> > >
> > >> Has it been revealed anywhere why Flash has been absent?
> > >
> > > I've gotten the impression that they don't use him because
> > > he's too powerful.
> >
> > Weird...that didn't stop them in the first two seasons...
>
> (shrug) I dunno. I've only watched some of this season, because it's the
> only time it sounded interesting to me.
Certasinly the third season is sounding (not to mention looking visually) really
really crap. Bringing in all these superfluous characters instead of
concetrating on the big seven sounds like a huge mistake.
--
Jon
-----
Cats are the embodiment of angels here on Earth.
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Johanna Draper Carlson wrote:
> >
> > (shrug) I dunno. I've only watched some of this season, because it's the
> > only time it sounded interesting to me.
>
> concetrating on the big seven sounds like a huge mistake.
I like seeing a wide variety of characters instead of only the same old
seven every time. That's what makes horse races.
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: I like seeing a wide variety of characters instead of only the same old
: seven every time. That's what makes horse races.
I agree, but there are ways of accomplishing a degree of diversity without
having 187 characters every issue. The Ellis episode is the only one I've seen,
but I didn't buy the story at all.
All those extras shooting energy beams (or worse, bullets) at the bad guys are
unnecessary baggage more than anything else-- they're just puuting too much of a
strain on my suspension of disbelief.
Using two or three of the big, "iconic" characters and teaming them up with a
rotating cast of less popular ones would seem to be a better way to go.
--
Marc-Oliver Frisch
POPP'D! >> http://poppd.blogspot.com/
COMIKADO >> http://comikado.blogspot.com/
"The repentant homosexual must be met with forgiveness."
-- Orson Scott Card
--
[This is a Usenet message, posted to the rec.arts.comics.* groups.]
Joe Bergeron
<evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote:
> Certasinly the third season is sounding (not to mention looking visually)
> really
> really crap. Bringing in all these superfluous characters instead of
> concetrating on the big seven sounds like a huge mistake.
It certainly can be, and this last episode was a great example. Hordes
and hordes of nameless, unspeaking heroes, including some ridiculous
ones like Vigilante who, apparently because he wears a silly costume,
found shooting the robots more effective than the Army troops did.
The more heroes we saw, the more ineffectual they all looked.
Johanna Draper Carlson
>
> All those extras shooting energy beams (or worse, bullets) at the bad
> guys are unnecessary baggage more than anything else
They were my favorite part of the episode, because they allowed us to
play "name that forgotten character". Vigilante, for example, was a
character I first read about a long time ago in a Dollar Comic, and I
enjoyed the reminder.
> Using two or three of the big, "iconic" characters and teaming them up with a
> rotating cast of less popular ones would seem to be a better way to go.
That sounds fine too.
Ralf Haring
<johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
> "Marc-Oliver Frisch" <Dersc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> All those extras shooting energy beams (or worse, bullets) at the bad
>> guys are unnecessary baggage more than anything else
>
>They were my favorite part of the episode, because they allowed us to
>play "name that forgotten character". Vigilante, for example, was a
>character I first read about a long time ago in a Dollar Comic, and I
>enjoyed the reminder.
But that's not new watcher friendly! ;-)
-Ralf Haring
"The mind must be the harder, the heart the keener,
the spirit the greater, as our strength grows less."
-Byrhtwold, The Battle of Maldon
Johanna Draper Carlson
> <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
> > "Marc-Oliver Frisch" <Dersc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> All those extras shooting energy beams (or worse, bullets) at the bad
> >> guys are unnecessary baggage more than anything else
> >
> >They were my favorite part of the episode, because they allowed us to
> >play "name that forgotten character". Vigilante, for example, was a
> >character I first read about a long time ago in a Dollar Comic, and I
> >enjoyed the reminder.
>
> But that's not new watcher friendly! ;-)
I don't agree (that that character was Vigilante wasn't important; to a
new reader, he was Motorcycle Cowboy, a neat visual), but more
importantly, I don't care. I enjoyed it. :)
Ken from Chicago
"Johanna Draper Carlson" <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote in
message news:johannaNOSPAM-9E3...@individual.net...
Psst, see variety, spice and life.
-- Helpful Ken from Chicago
Parallax
>
> Ralf Haring <har...@SPAMBLOCK.preypacer.com> wrote:
> > <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote:
> > > "Marc-Oliver Frisch" <Dersc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> All those extras shooting energy beams (or worse, bullets) at the bad
> > >> guys are unnecessary baggage more than anything else
> > >
> > >They were my favorite part of the episode, because they allowed us to
> > >play "name that forgotten character". Vigilante, for example, was a
> > >character I first read about a long time ago in a Dollar Comic, and I
> > >enjoyed the reminder.
> >
> > But that's not new watcher friendly! ;-)
>
> I don't agree (that that character was Vigilante wasn't important; to a
> new reader, he was Motorcycle Cowboy, a neat visual), but more
> importantly, I don't care. I enjoyed it. :)
He should've had a line like "What am I even doing here? I don't bring
anything to this table!"
lord zog
>
> lord zog <evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote:
> > Johanna Draper Carlson wrote:
> > >
> > > (shrug) I dunno. I've only watched some of this season, because it's the
> > > only time it sounded interesting to me.
> >
> > Bringing in all these superfluous characters instead of
> > concetrating on the big seven sounds like a huge mistake.
>
> I like seeing a wide variety of characters instead of only the same old
> seven every time. That's what makes horse races.
While I agree with sentiment to an extent, such a large cast as Season 3 gives
us (look at least someone new in every half hour episode) tends to dilutel the
narrative strength of the series.
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Johanna Draper Carlson wrote:
> >
> > I like seeing a wide variety of characters instead of only the same old
> > seven every time.
>
> us (look at least someone new in every half hour episode) tends to dilutel the
> narrative strength of the series.
I'm not sure what you mean by "narrative strength of the series". Would
you mind elaborating?
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: But that's not new watcher friendly! ;-)
It's got bigger problems than that, though: It's not logic-friendly, either.
The Babaloughesian
"Parallax" <Parallax@???????.net> wrote in message
news:c5swd.19$%x6...@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
Yes. That would've been perfect. And I wish one of those robotic tiger
things would've torn out Huntress's guts.
lord zog
>
> lord zog <evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote:
> > Johanna Draper Carlson wrote:
> > >
> > > I like seeing a wide variety of characters instead of only the same old
> > > seven every time.
> >
> > While I agree with sentiment to an extent, such a large cast as Season 3 gives
> > us (look at least someone new in every half hour episode) tends to dilutel the
> > narrative strength of the series.
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "narrative strength of the series". Would
> you mind elaborating?
In the first two seasons, they're able to build up some very good character arcs
not to mention the Diana/Bruce and John/Sheyara relationships. Heck, they even
had some wonderful John/Wally subtext going on until they decided to pair John &
Sheyara.
Season 3 OTOH seems more about how many costumes they can vomit up on screen in
a half hour than sticking with a small bunch of characters and developing them
properly. It's gone from an ongoing series to essentially a series of isolated
stories
Ken from Chicago
"Ralf Haring" <har...@SPAMBLOCK.preypacer.com> wrote in message
news:6a54s0981ejbokv5i...@4ax.com...
Watchers are Marvel Universe (or Buffy universe).
-- Ken from Chicago
P.S. Or Highlander.
Ken from Chicago
"Johanna Draper Carlson" <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote in
message news:johannaNOSPAM-5B7...@individual.net...
Isn't that what they been doing this season?
Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and a rotating cast: Green Arrow, Supergirl,
Captain Atom, Atom, Zatanna, Bwanna Beast, et. al.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"The Babaloughesian" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:32h9qlF...@individual.net...
I don't see why the alien didn't make any flying creatures--instead it had
to wait until Batman did something stupid like fly low so a robotiger could
jump on the batplane.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Marc-Oliver Frisch" <Dersc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:32gujbF...@individual.net...
It's like any large scale war.
They were going for sheer numbers.
You can't always be choosy about your soldiers.
After a certain point standards are "adjusted" aka lowered.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"lord zog" <evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote in message
news:41C3E2BB...@spin.net.au...
Which has the trend.
Look at your LAW AND ORDER's, your CSI's, your WITHOUT A TRACE.
Altho the pendulum has been swinging back toward longer-form, DESPERATE
HOUSEWIVES, LOST, even some reality shows like SURVIVOR or THE APPRENTICE,
where a ... narrative ... extends for more than single episode.
-- Ken from Chicago
Johanna Draper Carlson
>
> In the first two seasons, they're able to build up some very good
> character arcs not to mention the Diana/Bruce and John/Sheyara
> relationships. Heck, they even had some wonderful John/Wally subtext
> going on until they decided to pair John & Sheyara.
>
> Season 3 OTOH seems more about how many costumes they can vomit up on
> screen in a half hour than sticking with a small bunch of characters
> and developing them properly. It's gone from an ongoing series to
> essentially a series of isolated stories
It sounds like the earlier episodes were more soap operatic, with more
continuing arcs, while the new ones are more straight-ahead adventure.
That's what I like about them, that I don't miss anything if I only
watch the ones with characters or plots I'm interested in. So what you
see as a weakness, I see as a strength.
Mikel Midnight
<evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote:
> In the first two seasons, they're able to build up some very good character
> arcs not to mention the Diana/Bruce and John/Sheyara relationships. Heck,
> they even had some wonderful John/Wally subtext going on until they decided
> to pair John & Sheyara.
Are you claiming that there was some potential romance there until John
dropped Wally like a hot rock in favor of Sheyara?
> Season 3 OTOH seems more about how many costumes they can vomit up on screen
> in a half hour than sticking with a small bunch of characters and developing
> them properly. It's gone from an ongoing series to essentially a series of
> isolated stories.
It's irrelevant to me, having grown up with Silver Age DC Comics, but
my fiancee who did enjoy the series is unhappy with the current season
for exactly the reasons you state.
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Mikel Midnight
"You will die, sir, either on the gallows or from the
pox." (John Montagu, fourth Earl of Sandwich)
"That depends, sir, on whether I embrace your principles
or your mistress." (John Wilkes, sometime friend of his
and rakish member of the aristocracy)
blak...@blaklion.best.vwh.net
_______________________________________http://blaklion.best.vwh.net/comics.html
The Babaloughesian
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4rOdnb_z5I7...@comcast.com...
See, this is why there wasn't really any good reason for them to think it
was a considerable risk to throw the thing into the sun-- it was too damned
stupid.
lord zog
A sucky sucky trend that I fully blame the American TV industry's broadcast
structure for.
> Look at your LAW AND ORDER's, your CSI's, your WITHOUT A TRACE.
All shows I don't watch, mostly because they're kinda crap as far as my tastes
go
> Altho the pendulum has been swinging back toward longer-form, DESPERATE
> HOUSEWIVES, LOST, even some reality shows like SURVIVOR or THE APPRENTICE,
> where a ... narrative ... extends for more than single episode.
Looking forward to lost next Year. Was sad to see that Amazing Race took a step
towards the abyss occupied by the rest of the "let's skank the others" reality
TV with their introduction of the Yield. The great thing about TAR was that it
was an essentially positive competition. But I digress.
lord zog
>
> In article <41C3E2BB...@spin.net.au>, lord zog
> <evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote:
>
> > In the first two seasons, they're able to build up some very good character
> > arcs not to mention the Diana/Bruce and John/Sheyara relationships. Heck,
> > they even had some wonderful John/Wally subtext going on until they decided
> > to pair John & Sheyara.
>
> Are you claiming that there was some potential romance there until John
> dropped Wally like a hot rock in favor of Sheyara?
Hell yeah. It's classic "opposites attract" stuff, but dangerous because of the
genders involved. Having two military cops fall for each other was short-term
safer, but made what happened at the end of season 2 so much more personal than
a simple alien invasion.
> > Season 3 OTOH seems more about how many costumes they can vomit up on screen
> > in a half hour than sticking with a small bunch of characters and developing
> > them properly. It's gone from an ongoing series to essentially a series of
> > isolated stories.
>
> It's irrelevant to me, having grown up with Silver Age DC Comics, but
> my fiancee who did enjoy the series is unhappy with the current season
> for exactly the reasons you state.
Your Fiance shows great wisdom.
There's a reason why the Silver Age ended.
Ken from Chicago
What's the Yield?
Have you seen the Eco-Challenge? Mark Burnett used to produce it for USA
channel and it's like TAR squared, like some major marathon thru steaming
tropics with teams of four. Because they were teams, they encouraged each
other and were positive.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Johanna Draper Carlson" <johann...@comicsworthreading.com> wrote in
message news:johannaNOSPAM-5BF...@individual.net...
But you're a GIRL?! You're spose to like it when they get all wuvvy duvvy.
Harumph! You're RUINING the stereotype!
-- Ken from Chicago
arnold kim
Nothing inherently wrong with self-contained storylines. With the rare
two-parter, the first few seasons of Batman: The Animated Series were
largely self-contained.
And it's pretty much a network TV trend. Cable TV drama on channels like
HBO and FX (which is where much of the good stuff is these days) is more
story arc oriented.
>> Look at your LAW AND ORDER's, your CSI's, your WITHOUT A TRACE.
>
> All shows I don't watch, mostly because they're kinda crap as far as my
> tastes
> go
How do you know they're crap if you don't watch them?
Arnold Kim
James Schee
You may like tonight's episode then, which seems like it would slide
right in with last season with little problem.
I personally have liked this season better, because seeing all of the
various characters is sort of neat. Especially the ones I don't know
like the cowboy riding the motorcycle.
Because I know if I don't like this week's lineup, then next week's
might be a better fit. Plus it just keeps things a bit fresher to not
see the same ones over and over.
James
Ken from Chicago
"arnold kim" <arno...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:O23xd.2029$v6....@fe08.lga...
>
> "lord zog" <evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote in message
> news:41C49A87...@spin.net.au...
> > Ken from Chicago wrote:
> >>
> >> "lord zog" <evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote in message
> >> news:41C3E2BB...@spin.net.au...
> >> > Johanna Draper Carlson wrote:
<snip>
> >> > --
> >> > Jon
> >> > -----
> >> > Cats are the embodiment of angels here on Earth.
> >>
> >> Which has the trend.
> >
> > A sucky sucky trend that I fully blame the American TV industry's
> > broadcast
> > structure for.
>
> Nothing inherently wrong with self-contained storylines. With the rare
> two-parter, the first few seasons of Batman: The Animated Series were
> largely self-contained.
>
> And it's pretty much a network TV trend. Cable TV drama on channels like
> HBO and FX (which is where much of the good stuff is these days) is more
> story arc oriented.
THE WIRE
CARNIVALE
DEADWOOD
THE SOPRANOS
THE DEAD ZONE
Not to mention anime
GHOST IN THE SHELL: STAND ALONE COMPLEX
> >> Look at your LAW AND ORDER's, your CSI's, your WITHOUT A TRACE.
> >
> > All shows I don't watch, mostly because they're kinda crap as far as my
> > tastes
> > go
>
> How do you know they're crap if you don't watch them?
>
> Arnold Kim
Shush. It's rude to poke logical holes in someone's rants.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
Namely?
> --
> Jon
> -----
> Cats are the embodiment of angels here on Earth.
-- Ken from Chicago
Mikel Midnight
<jameswschee-471F...@news1.west.earthlink.net>, James
Schee <james...@nospamEarthlink.net> wrote:
> I personally have liked this season better, because seeing all of the
> various characters is sort of neat. Especially the ones I don't know
> like the cowboy riding the motorcycle.
http://members.tripod.com/originalvigilante/vigilante.htm
Look for him in the upcoming SEVEN SOLDIERS OF VICTORY series.
lord zog
>
> What's the Yield?
Basically when you reach a task (for example, having to finish assembling
the decorations on a jeepny in Malaysia) a team may force any team behind
them to wait for a pre-determined amount of time upon reaching the task
before they're allowed to start it. Thus in the above example, team 1 yield
team 4, who when they show up have to wait for the sand to run out of an
hour glass and are forced to watch their first three teams complete their
task and leave, and do nothing about it (except watch for the mistakes not
to make).
That, and taking away the money of people who finish last on
non-elimination rounds a has added a somewhat nastier vibe to the show.
lord zog
>
> How do you know they're crap if you don't watch them?
>
> Arnold Kim
How about because I made an informed decision and checked them out to see
whether or not they were worth watching.
lord zog
It was overblown, over-populated, kinda silly and as a result kinda crap?
Somewhat like the X-Men and Batman franchises atm.
lord zog
>
> THE WIRE
Loved that series, Can't wait for them to show the second series over here
>
> CARNIVALE
Saw the fiorst 2 eps back-to-back tonight. Am loving it already.
> DEADWOOD
Sadly, only on pay TV here atm
> THE SOPRANOS
I have better things to do than venerate a gangster and his objectional
family and friends.
> THE DEAD ZONE
Yeah, it's got a good mix of stand alone and mythos stories. I particularly
like their slow corruption of Reverend Purdy.
> Not to mention anime
>
> GHOST IN THE SHELL: STAND ALONE COMPLEX
I've heard that it exists, but isn't as good as the 1st movie (currently
waiting for GitS2 to hit something approaching a general release here).
jap...@yahoo.com
Mikel Midnight wrote:
> In article
> <jameswschee-471F...@news1.west.earthlink.net>, James
> Schee <james...@nospamEarthlink.net> wrote:
> > I personally have liked this season better, because seeing all of
the
> > various characters is sort of neat. Especially the ones I don't
know
> > like the cowboy riding the motorcycle.
> http://members.tripod.com/originalvigilante/vigilante.htm
> Look for him in the upcoming SEVEN SOLDIERS OF VICTORY series.
Speaking of which, I noticed that this episode had almost all 7
soldiers in it; the only one missing was Speedy. (And the 8th soldier,
Wing).
I wonder if that was intentional.
Jim
jap...@yahoo.com
> Season 3 OTOH seems more about how many
> costumes they can vomit up on screen in
> a half hour than sticking with a small bunch of
> characters and developing them
> properly. It's gone from an ongoing series to
> essentially a series of isolated stories
I don't think that is a fair statement to make. While this season has
been much more plot driven, it is far from being isolated stories. It
has picked up on plot points from the previous Superman and Batman
series, and many episodes are setting up plot threads for future
episodes.
There is nothing isolated about that.
I do agree that the nameless hordes of characters have not been used to
all that good effect. But the only previous episode that did tat was
the Booster Gold one, and that one developed Booster quite nicely.
Jim
jap...@yahoo.com
arnold kim wrote:
> "WildCard WG" <wildc...@dodgeit.com> wrote in message
> news:1102889687.04a81987bd663d32e1db2dc9d66d26cf@teranews...
>
> > Now, only one of the other plot holes: you need to get the Atom
*fast*
> > and you don't send the Flash to get him? You send Superman, a Big
Gun
> > instead? What was Batman thinking?!
> Probably that Superman can fly faster than Flash can run.
But why didn't they just phone call the Atom and have him "ride the
electrons" there?
Didn't he use that trick in the Amazo episode?
Jim
Ken from Chicago
Cruel. I prefer a straight race without adding obstacles for others.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
You sampled, past tense, them?
Instead of watch, present progressive tense, them?
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
> > "lord zog" <evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote in message
> > news:41C49BA0...@spin.net.au...
> >
<snip>
> >>There's a reason why the Silver Age ended.
> >
> >
> > Namely?
>
> It was overblown, over-populated, kinda silly and as a result kinda crap?
>
> Somewhat like the X-Men and Batman franchises atm.
>
>
> --
> Jon
> -----
> Cats are the embodiment of angels here on Earth.
Why wait for each golden egg when one can get all the gold at once?
-- Ken from Chicago
James Schee
> In article
> <jameswschee-471F...@news1.west.earthlink.net>, James
> Schee <james...@nospamEarthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > I personally have liked this season better, because seeing all of the
> > various characters is sort of neat. Especially the ones I don't know
> > like the cowboy riding the motorcycle.
>
> http://members.tripod.com/originalvigilante/vigilante.htm
>
> Look for him in the upcoming SEVEN SOLDIERS OF VICTORY series.
Huh very interesting, thanks!
James
lord zog
> "lord zog" <evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote in message
> news:41c5a9d0$1$31706$61c6...@un-2park-reader-01.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
>
>>Ken from Chicago wrote:
>>
>>>What's the Yield?
>>
>>Basically when you reach a task (for example, having to finish assembling
>>the decorations on a jeepny in Malaysia) a team may force any team behind
>>them to wait for a pre-determined amount of time upon reaching the task
>>before they're allowed to start it. Thus in the above example, team 1
>
> yield
>
>>team 4, who when they show up have to wait for the sand to run out of an
>>hour glass and are forced to watch their first three teams complete their
>>task and leave, and do nothing about it (except watch for the mistakes not
>>to make).
>>
>>That, and taking away the money of people who finish last on
>>non-elimination rounds a has added a somewhat nastier vibe to the show.
>
> Cruel. I prefer a straight race without adding obstacles for others.
Exactly. That TAR was just a straight out competition between teams where
any advantage gained over the competition was purely a result of their own
efforts, was one of the things that distinguished it from the rest of the
"reality tv" shows.
lord zog
> "lord zog" <evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote in message
> news:41c5abcd$0$3606$61c6...@un-2park-reader-02.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
>
>>Ken from Chicago wrote:
>>
>>>"lord zog" <evil_l...@spin.net.au> wrote in message
>>>news:41C49BA0...@spin.net.au...
>>>
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>>>There's a reason why the Silver Age ended.
>>>
>>>
>>>Namely?
>>
>>It was overblown, over-populated, kinda silly and as a result kinda crap?
>>
>>Somewhat like the X-Men and Batman franchises atm.
> Why wait for each golden egg when one can get all the gold at once?
Something about not putting all your eggs in one basket...
Ken from Chicago
Precisely. Why wait for eggs when you can cook the goose all at once?
-- Ken from Chicago
Theron
He's busy in JLU Elite. :)
arnold kim
> arnold kim wrote:
>>
>> How do you know they're crap if you don't watch them?
>>
>> Arnold Kim
>
> How about because I made an informed decision and checked them out to see
> whether or not they were worth watching.
For just an episode, or a somewhat larger (and more representative) sample
size?
Arnold Kim
lord zog
>
> Precisely. Why wait for eggs when you can cook the goose all at once?
A dead goose can't lay eggs
lord zog
couple of episodes after that to prove itsel if I have any doubts.
Ken from Chicago
What about new seasons? Especially if they hype some major change?
-- Ken from Chicago
lord zog
>
> What about new seasons? Especially if they hype some major change?
Usually not - major changes tend to make it less interesting on the whole,
particularly if the change leaves in something youdropped the series for in
the first place (such as McCoy or whatever the DA's name is on Law & Order,
or any of the cast on The Practice) - and the ads tend to give you a fairly
decent idea of what the show's like.
In the case of JLU, when we eventually get season 3 I'll probably watch it
out of habit for a couple of eps, then quite possibly just tune back in for
the episodes that sound interesting as (a) the format, and just as
importantly, (b) the new art style, really don't appeal to me the way the
look and set up of the first two season did.